Cowboys Break: Good, Bad & (Mostly) Ugly

We've got forty five minutes here to talk to you guys and try to make sense of what happened yesterday. Cowboys lose forty nine thirty eight in a game that was very similar to many games that we've seen them play this season. They fall in a deep hole, they managed to come back, they make it very interesting, and at the end of the day, they end up with

a loss. We're gonna start first with what we do every Monday, where we're just gonna go around the table and talk about what we think is the biggest storyline coming out of this game. Nick, I see that somber look on your face. I'm going I'm gonna start with you and let you kind of have a little moment time honestly trying to figure out something to say that that, you know, the other two wouldn't say. The defense was terrible, is terrible, has been terrible, was terrible, terrible or in

that game, and it's that's the problem. Can't stop the run. I got a lot of friends that are that are coaches, college, high school, probably pee wee, I don't know, yeah, and they're all gonna tell you if you can't stop the run, you're gonna lose. So Amber, you didn't have as much much trepidation going to this game as many others did. How do you feel today? You know a lot of people for some reason are expecting me just to go

completely off and be mad and all that. But to be honest, after watching the game again, I am not mad at all. Like watching the game, it was just I felt complete secondhand embarrassment. It was sad. I felt so bad just watching the way that the defense was playing. It was embarrassing. They just looked like a lost heard that just was in pure confusion, not knowing what to do. The he looked like high school players playing against NFL players.

It was like the level was completely unmatched. There's absolutely zero positive that the defense did nothing positive aside from Aldon Smith put him aside, nobody else did absolutely anything. And I just don't get how week by week you just keep getting worse rather than improving. Day I was gonna be so disappointed if Amber didn't know me to actually ramp it up there, Like I was like, are

you kidding? After this game of all games, you're not mad? Okay? Um, I just I'm gonna I'm gonna bounce off of what I said Friday, which is that they're probably not a very good team if they can't win this game, and

it changes my expectations of what they are. I came into the season thinking this offense is gonna cook, This offense is gonna score mid thirties and flirt with the forties on a regular basis, and it's gonna give them a chance, and all they need is for their defense to be mediocre and they'll be a pretty good team. If the Dallas Cowboys had the eighteenth best defense in the league or the twentieth best defense in the league,

they'd have a winning record right now. But they're the absolute worst like they are, and maybe I don't know, I'm sure. I haven't looked at the statistics. I don't know if they're updated yet. Even if they're not thirty second, they should be. They're awful. That was that was so bad, and it's going to hinder their ability to be competitive. Like you know this, Like I said, if the defense was even below average, you're talking about a team that

can flirt with double digit wins. But they're awful, and so now you're talking about a team that's probably gonna win between six and nine games depending on a few bounces of the ball. So I got three storylines I'm gonna run by you guys, and we have a couple of questions on each one of them. The first one is obviously the run defense, and you guys all started there with the defense. But the run defense, particularly yesterday,

was really really awful. I mean, they gave up three hundred and seven yards on the ground on forty Russians. That's the seven point seven average. I don't know that I've seen too many NFL games where you're giving up seven point seven yards per carry. And that's with what was the league's leading rusher in Nick Chubb going out in the first quarter and not returning to the game

after being injured. That all being said, what was the problem, Nicholas, start with you, what was the problem with the run defense yesterday? Well, they the Browns had you know, it didn't matter if Nick Chubb was the running running back at all. That just kind of tells you what kind of system they're running. And also that the Cowboys weren't going to be able to stop it really anybody, Um,

you know that they just plugged in whoever. But I thought Cleveland did a really nice job of misdirection, getting people to go one way, kind of suck of the defense there and then and then cutting back, Um, the Cowboys aren't getting off blocks and you know there and I didn't I don't know if was there a lot of miss tackles. I can't There were some there, I'm sure there was somebody didn't seem like a ton of mis tackles. It just was like they're they're just gashing them.

So I'd have to go back and kind of watch more of it. But man, that it was. It was just demoralizing an you know, Dave said it and I kind of agreed with him when he said, I don't know, I'd play the safeties back because I don't see a team just running him to death. And I when he said it, I actually agreed with that, you know, but they did, they actually did. They actually ran over them. I didn't think that could happen, and that happened. Amber.

What do you think is the biggest problem with run defense? They just look completely lost. Everyone just looks lost, honestly. And essentially, there are what three levels to the defense. Let's say the defensive line, then you got your linebackers, and then the secondary bank. Then neither level is doing a good enough job to do like their neither level

is doing anything, honestly. So to go back and to think that that you got a whole new coaching staff, you got to see tape from at least last year. You knew going into this new job that you were having issues already with the run defense, and you still haven't managed to figure out a way to solve it. I just I don't know what to tell you. There needs to be a big change happening this week. Yeah, Dave,

I think it is. It is ironic. I thought they could get away with let the Browns run between the twenties. I mean, there were plenty of explosive plays too. I mean, the anytime you can give up an uncontested forty yard touchdown pass from a wide receiver, I mean, it just it's just signals the type of day that you're going to have. I don't think that they have a player who's above replacement level in the middle of their defense, like, not a one. You know, we can hate on him

for his contract all we want. DeMarcus Lawrence is still a pretty good player, even if he's not getting sacks. Alvin Smith has been a revelation. That's cool. What about the middle of the defense, Like the defensive tackles can't get off blocks, they get pushed around. The linebackers certainly can't get off blocks. The best linebacker on the team is Joe Thomas, who I you know, all things considered, I thought had a pretty decent day. It seemed like

the effort was there, he was tackling. He should have had an interception on a terrible call. But you know, I brought it up Jalen Smith needed to have a great game. He had a terrible day. And then you know, we know all about the safeties. We know that that's a problem. So in the middle of the field, I don't know that there's a single player on this roster that another NFL team. Damn, I wish we had that guy. He's better than what we have. I just don't think

that's the case. And it shows when you go against a great offensive line and a good stable running backs. You know, Dave, I kind of agree with you. I definitely agree with you on the linebackers. I think the linebackers played horribly yesterday, and even Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas I thought had some splash plays and I even tweeted about it earlier in the game. I think during the first quarter he had like this, you know, this stat

line where he was actually making some plays. But as you watch that game, they're linebackers just and I've said this before, I said this in earlier weeks. It was on display yesterday. You got linebackers right now that are not diagnosing what's happening quickly enough. And then once they do figure out what's going on, they start trying to run to the play and they're not fast enough to

get there. They can't get off blocks when an offensive lineman engages them, and in a lot of instance that means either they get washed out of plays or they end up just being blocked and can't get to the play, and so they're not filling gaps. And so I look at this and I'm actually thinking that yesterday a lot of the runs were right off tackle, which in this instance, when you're playing a three man front, you want your outside linebacker to maintain to make sure they don't get outside.

They did that pretty well. The problem is when you do that and the defensive end is not closing that gap by flowing out, he's getting blocked, and then you don't have linebackers that are able to get over there and fill the gap because they're getting blocked. Then you create this lane. And that lane was there all day, all day for the Cleveland Brown. So I'm looking at the defensive ends in a three man front, I'm looking at the linebackers, and I'm saying that's where I think

the Cowboys are having we're having problems yesterday. That doesn't mean, Dave, I disagree with you about the defensive tackles, because I think they've had some problems throughout the season, But I think yesterday and particularly the defensive ends in a three man front and the linebackers were the main culprits with the running game. Well, anytime you play a three four defense, anytime you know three four defense, Yeah, they're supposed to be able to get up the field and get get pressure.

And what you sacrifice is that, Yeah, you have smaller guys and you could you could, you know, not get off your blocks and get pushed around. But you offset that because you've got speedy, quick pass rushers that will get to the quarterback. Well that's not happening. So they're just getting gashed. Yeah, So let me ask you this question, and I'll throw this out there to day. Oh once you answer this for me. How much blame? I think we all agree this defense is bad. How much blame

do you give Mike Nolan? I saw stat this morning. If you go back to the last time he was a defensive coordinator twenty twelve through twenty fourteen, he was the coordinator defensive coordinator for the Atlanta Falcons. His defense was twenty fourth, twenty seventh, and thirty second in those three years. Dave, how much blame do you give Mike Nolan? I think I said this last week about the players

and it can apply to coaches too. Is like I love it when they make it easy for me because they've given up the sixth highest point total through four games in the history the entire league. So a lot of blame because and I get it, like, I know that they have a lot of injuries. I know Layton vander esh isn't out there. I know that you lost

Gerald McCoy. You still had a whole training camp to evaluate what you had and adjust what you wanted to do based on that, not to mention the offseason that you had where you know, you got to sit down and watch the tape of what these guys could do in the last scheme and figure out what suits them the best. And it doesn't look like that plan is awesome right now. Again, sixth highest point total in the

history of professional football. So yeah, plenty, because I mean, and a big part of being a coach is adapting on the fly. It either doesn't look like they're doing that or it looks like the adapting that they're trying

to do is even worse than the original plan. All right, let's go ahead and move on to the next area where I thought that it was a big storyline for this team, and it is a storyline that's continued throughout the year is fact that they are giving the ball away and they're not getting turnover, so their turnover margin is out of control. You look at it, yesterday, they had they gave away three turnovers. They didn't get a single turnover. Zeke gets his second fumble loss of the seasons,

the third time he's fumbled. He recovered one of them. But that all being said, is this something that the coaches can actually fix or do you think this is a situation where players just have to be more aware and have to just take more time to protect the ball. And let's start with you Amber, Well, I think it's

definitely a combination of both. Certain players. There are certain things that you couldn't you should not be able to do, Like there are certain mistakes that you shouldn't be doing at this level, especially when you're speaking about vettering guys.

That's one thing. But I get it. Errors happens, things happen in the game whatever, Okay, But when you as a coach you are putting a guy like Terence Steele out there on the offensive line and you know that there's a guy called Miles Scarrett in their playing as well, you gotta be aware of the kind of situations that you're putting your offense in and what those things can create.

I mean, one of those were created by you making the decision to have Still in there rather than put Night, and that's a guy we I think all the Greed that has played a little bit better than Still. So those kinds of decisions that you should already know prior to going in the game to kind of just prevent certain situations from happening. Both but at the end of the day, I mean it also goes to the players.

So it's just a combination of both putting your players in the best situation as possible, but at the same time, you as a player trying to play better football, and the biggest thing in football is securing the ball and being able to just not let it loose. Yeah, you mentioned steal there. One of the unique things A note about that is earlier in the game he'd already given up one sack and there was another play where he allowed a quarterback pressure because he basically just got thrown

to the ground. So this was not I mean, they already had seen this was looking bad, and they decided that they were going to stick with it, and it ended up costing them. Nick, what do you think do you think the coaches at this point can make a change with regard to this or this is or turnovers in this instance more function of the of the players. I think. I think a fumble is a function of the player, you know, I mean, I think it happens.

I mean, but but I I mean, they they they stress that, they stress protecting the football and all those things. But you know, I just think when it comes down to I think she's right. I think that that you know, don't get surprised that that Terrence Steele's giving up sacks, and especially when you're not giving him help. The thing about Steel is that he's an athletic tackle. If that's the case, you know, he's his quick feet whatever, agile.

But Miles Garrett's is more athletic than you, and he's got experience and he's got power, and so that's that's not a good matchup there at all. And so don't be surprised. I mean, I don't really blame that on Dak. I mean, Dak's trying to throw football and the guy knocks it out. I do blame it on the fact that he's not getting much help and expecting that Terrence Steals all of a sudden Gon gonna be able to stop Myles Garrett. But but but on the Zeke fumble, I

think it's on Zeke. All right, let's move on. Let's take this next area that was a story of the game. Can I throw I know, I know we only have forty five minutes, but I mean three that's three sacks in three games where Dak has coughed the ball up getting sacked. And I know that that's it's hard. I understand that. And it sounds like you're not gonna have Lyle Collins this year, so it's probably gonna be a theme. But there's got to be a way you can protect

that a little bit better. And the same goes for Zeke. You know. I remember we talked about this with DeMarco Murray. The way that he carried the ball seemed like he opened himself up to fumbles. I don't think Zeke's technique is as bad as DeMarco's was, but when you've had this many fumbles through this few games, it's probably something you should revisit for both of them, because not every

quarterback in the league gets strip sacked every week. Well, Dave, there's got to be a way you can clean that up. I will say this with regard to Dak, I don't think every sack of a quarterback or a fumble created by a quarterback is necessarily equal, because it's one thing. If he's standing in the pocket and the guy comes and swipes the ball and knocks it out of his hands,

that's one thing, and that's on the quarterback. It's a whole different thing if the quarterback is actually in the motion of throwing and the defender gets to him and knocks the ball away. To me, I put that on the offensive lineman. And by the way that I've heard this narrative that people are trying to throw out there, he was holding on the ball too long. That's bs

that ball. If you watch that play he took me he didn't have to take a drop back because he was already in shotgun, but literally within a matter of two seconds, he was about to throw the ball. So this was not a situation where he held the ball too long. This was not a situation where he wasn't protecting the ball. He was in the motion of throwing.

His offensive lineman has to do a better job of protecting him from allowing that defender to get to him to be able to knock the ball away as he's throwing. Very fair point, which raises the question of why everyone in the world knew that Brandon Knight should be playing right now exact Steff the coaching staff, And it's right back to that, because that's what we've been talking about here for the last couple of weeks, is that was a better scenario, especially a game like this where you're

coming in against a guy like Miles Garrett. And it seemed like, for whatever reason, this coaching staff has been sold since the season began, they have been sold on the fact that Terrence Steele is their guy, and yesterday I think they had to recan on that a little bit because they had obviously took him out of the game and a movement at night in there. Yeah, all right, real quick, let's get to this final area that I

thought was a storyline of the game. Once again, the Cowboys in it end up in a situation where they create this huge hole for themselves. They were down forty one to fourteen at the beginning of the fourth quarter. I think we all thought this game's over. There's no way and Nick as the look I gave you at the point when they when they pulled close and when werein three. I think we all agree this offense had

that That shows you the power of this offense. Question I for you guys, though, is do you think in any way what we're seeing from this offense is a function of the fact that they're really great when defense is kind of loosen up and maybe they're maybe they're good, they're not as great as maybe their numbers are because they're getting a lot of that in situations where defenses are loosening up and just not trying not to give up the big play, even though they're seeming to give

up the big play those situations. What do you think one percent that they're not this offense isn't as explosive dynamic as as as those yards are showing, especially in the first half, they're not. They're not coming out and and being you know, getting a lead. I mean, yeah, you put it on the defense, but it's also the offense isn't scoring the points um in the first half like like they are in the second. And I think

it is the case. You know, prevent defenses work. I mean, I know I've heard for years people say, well, prevent defenses only prevent you from winning. That's stupid. That's a stupid phrase to try to be catchy and all that prevent defenses get make you score and and it takes time off the clock to do that. And so yeah, they go and they score points and they're coming back in the game. But it hasn't been enough except for Atlanta,

and it needed a miracle kick. The one thing I will say about that is, I think yesterday, for the first time, we did actually see the offense get somewhat of a fast start. The problem was a defense couldn't get a stop, and on top of that, the offense started turning the ball over and then it killed all their momentum to points. They got going, but they had turnovers there, Dave, what do you think? I think y'all are insane. With all due respect, I say that respectfully,

but I mean what. I got the stats right here. Dak was thirteen to sixteen for two hundred yards and two touchdowns. At halftime. He was absolutely annihilating them. The baffling thing to me, I've never seen a game, and I like, you got to hang onto the ball. I get that. I've never seen a game where a pair of fumbles completely swung things like. The Cowboys looked like

they were in position to dictate this game. They had a fourteen seven lead, They're moving the ball at will, and they cough up the ball twice and it's thirty one, fourteen before you can even blink, and now the whole thing's flipped. And again you have to hold onto the ball. But if the defense holds, like if they could even just do something like hold one of those drives to a field goal, it's a different game. Coming out a half,

I thought the offense was rocking and rolling Zeke. I mean the ze Zeke's carry that led to a fumble was for like twenty one yards. I was getting ready to tweet, Oh, I guess, I guess Zeke finally had his fifteen yard run. I was about to tweet that when I realized he fumbled it like they were kicking ass. They kicked ass in Seattle when they were down by what fifteen points? When Dak led him on drives of like ninety one and eighty nine in as fan of

like six minutes. I hope Seattle's not dumb enough to play prevent with a fifteen point lead. So no, I don't think that at all. I thought the offense was kicking ass until they forgot how to hold onto the football, and the defense didn't do him any favors. How do you explain it, then, how do you explain the fact that they Falcons Hawks and the Browns are stopping them in the first half, and all of a sudden, now in the second half, they're just getting all these yards.

They're just clicking because they're minus like six and turnovers in that span. They fumbled the ball five times in the first quarter against Atlanta. Okay, well, then the offense is choking in the first half, and that's fair to say out of the Browns. I don't think that happened in the Brown game. They're turning the ball over, they're shifting themselves in the foot in the first half, and then in the second half they're playing free. And I don't know I do there, but let's get very clear,

they need to hold onto the ball. Their ball security is awful. I ran. Then I looked at the numbers last night. They have nine turnovers through four games, and obviously we know their defense isn't gonna meet that like, they have to play cleaner football if they're gonna have a chance. But they're not doing this because or at least strictly because they're playing prevent defenses. That's that just can't be the case based on what we've seen. They

got to play cleaner football. But this is an awesome offense and it has shown that potential in all four quarters of all four games. What do you think, Amber, I just think it's more of a factor of the Cowboys limiting their mistakes, because I mean, when you look at all the games, you can't tell me that there is a huge drop in the way that the defense is playing in the second half of the game, Like you're the defense is not just all of a sudden gonna just drop from playing at this level to this

level that quickly. And I get it they get tired or whatever, but I just don't think it's bigger enough, big enough of a drop, rather than the Cowboys actually just trying to limit their mistakes and making it happen because we've seen it, and they get on the roll, but then the problem is once again they just hit themselves on the foot and then it goes to crap, all right, we're gonna take our first break. When we come back from this break, we're gonna get into the

moments that mattered. Everybody has a moment from that game that they want to point out as the moment that could have been one of the pivotal moments of this game. We'll do that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. We're back in the tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor bad cream Soda. Is he a Newcombonut's music to my ears? Okay, Doctor Time in a Glass, Music to my ears and mouth,

New Doctor pepper and Cream Soda. Delas, Just do bay? I want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Flack skincare favorites, plus a full sized and tense therapy lip bomb.

Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word Team jab that's get Jack Black dot com, slash Cowboys, the Jack Black starter ten Bucks free shipping since eighteen sixty five. Stetson Hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride too? You can by purchasing your own Stetson. You can look just like how the flag guys do on field at every home game.

Stetson hats the official crown of all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get yours today at Shop dot Dallas Cowboys dot com or at Stetson dot com. It's funny as we travel places, often we find the places we want to travel aren't really places at all. They're people, their grandparents, moms, old friends, and new nephews. That's why at American Airlines we've been using enhanced cleaning measures so you can feel confident every step until you

get to them. So as always are p can't wait to take you to yours. American Airlines, you are why we fly back to the break. The Cowboys are back at at and T Stadium this Sunday, taken on their arrival the New York Giants. A limited number of tickets are available to get yours now at Dallas cowboys dot com slash tickets. Make sure to get there early and cheer on the Cowboys so they can get off to a fast start. Gets Jason Garrett and the New York Giants.

Boy this NFC East. We'll talk about that tomorrow, but anyway, now we're at the moments that matter. Welcome back to the second segment of the breakelock in nest WBC Mortgage Studios. We're gonna go around the room and everybody's gonna give us a moment that mattered in this game. Nicholas start first with you, Okay, I think I'm going In the late of the first quarter, the Cowboys have a fourteen

seven lead. It's the largest lead they've had in the entire season at that point, and the Browns have got the ball on first and twenty and because of holding penalties, first and twentieth of their own thirty eight five yard passed and the flat Austin Hooper and he's tackled like

he's going down, you know. Don Wilson has him and Jalen Smith decides he wants to jump in on the pile and face mask, and so that obviously first down for Cleveland instead of second and fifteen, which is so important because you know, then it prevents them from really having to run much. Put it on Baker Mayfield's hand, get him uncomfortable. We saw when he's uncomfortable, he doesn't

really make great decisions. You get the ball back up seven, you can go score, and now you're playing the way you want to play and Cleveland can't play the way they obviously played. But that penalty changed everything. Cleaving Gainst the ball drives down ties the game, and then the floodgates were open after that. But I thought that was a huge turning point. You got him backed up at first and twenty and there's no need, there's no reason to mask, there's no reason for you to even touch him.

He didn't even have to tackle him because the guy was already gonna go down. Yeah, that was a huge moment that mattered for me. Yeah, it's as I go back and look at this game, one of the people that stands out the most to me, as I guess you can call him culprits is Jalen Smith. I just think he is not playing good football, and it really does make me wonder about his future here with the Cowboys, because he just does There's a lot of things he's got to correct in his game, and I'm not sure

he can. Be quite honest with you, all right, let's go to you Amber. What was the moment of the moment that mattered for you? Oh? Well, we basically already talked about it a little bit. It was the sack that the sack slash fumble that Myles Garrett was able to create because of just the tacking tern Still, but to get to that point, I think that was the critical point of the game where everything just kind of started changing because you had the Cowboys offense scoring points.

They were tied in the game fourteen fourteen at that moment, but you know, regardless of being tight, that was the first time that or not the first time, but at least the Cowboys starting off with some kind of tempo and being able to keep up with the opponent. Now, at that point, they get the sack, they recovered the ball, Cleveland goes back and scores a touchdown, and then what happens the Cowboys offense after that was not able to score anything else until the fourth quarter of the game.

For some reason, that just completely threw their game away and they just could not get it moving again, could not figure it out until the fourth quarter. So that was a huge moment for me where I just saw

just a whole turning point of the offense. Yeah, it's interesting to me that I think we all agreed that we thought Night was the better of between he and Steel, and from the moment they put Night in the game, he wasn't perfect, but it did seem like a lot of things settled down with regards to the pressure that was coming at that Prescott. Is that what you guys thow? Do you think this was a game where once a Night got in, Night played substantially better there at the

right tackle position day What do you think? That's how I've felt about Brandon Knight every time he's had to go in, going back to last year, Like I feel like people forget this because last year was so disappointing, but like we had to do this song and dance for two or three weeks last season and Brandon Knight held up just fine. Yeah, definitely not perfect, but fine,

And that's what it was. And again, I mean, it's very crazy to me how everybody was calling for Brandon Knight and everybody wanted to see somebody besides Darry and Thompson, and those guys were basically playing on the shortest leashes, like they made one or two mistakes and they're gone, which leads you to believe that the coaching staff agreed

with us about that. But they put him out there anyway, which is mystifying to me, Like if their leash was that short, maybe you should just try the guy behind him. I don't understand the logic there at all, And there's more to it than that, because Beyondish was saying that that he got some snaps in practice and that was going to happen with him. I bet you Luney didn't

have a short leash either. I mean he did have shortly yeah, and then um but but and then the same with Night and Steel, which means if they're both getting practice reps, then I mean make a decision because they need the practice. Steel is only gonna get fifty percent of the reps, and you know Night's getting fifty percent of the reps. Somebody should get one hundred percent of the reps at this point, I mean, figure it

out and go with it. If it's beyond go with it because he needs all of the reps he can get during the practice Weekum, and we'll talk about Beardish later, but but it's the same type of thing, like they're so unsure what they want to do. And Donovan Wilson got a lot of reps as well, So it's like, make a make a decision here because whoever's practice needs

to practice one hundred percent of the time. All right, So I'm gonna move on to my moment that mattered, And to me, this is one of the players that has got forgotten in this game. But I think it was a huge play. I think it actually could have changed the outcome of this game to some degree. You had four or two left in the third quarter, Cleveland's up thirty eight to fourteen. Cleveland has the ball. It's

third and four at the Cleveland forty. Mayfield throws a pass to Hilliard for two yards, which would have made it fourth in two at the Cleveland What would that have been the Cleveland forty two. Joe Thomas puts a big hit on him and he's called for unnecessary roughness. But I actually think the call that got missed there is actually it should have been an interception. In my opinion, I think if you watch that play, he grabs the ball when they both are on the ground and touching,

which would signal to play is over. He actually had possession of the ball, and I don't think that it was a situation that he was that he necessarily had unnecessary roughness because the ball kept him from having helmet to helme in contact. So all that being considered, I think the miss call here was it should not have been an unnecessary roughness. It should would not have been or should have been an interception. And right there, if Dallas gets the ball right there, that saves him a

bunch of time. Cleveland actually goes down and get to field goal there. So Cowboys would have maybe been in a situation where they were tying at thirty eight thirty eight. Maybe then they don't decide to do whatever that was with the kick that. I don't really know what you call that, but I think it changes so much about what happened in the latter parts of the games, and

I don't think it's being talked about nearly enough. From the standpoint of that was a pivotal moment and a great play by Joe Thomas that basically got negated by what I thought was somewhat of a phantom call. Yeah, I agree with that. And I asked them after the game and he said it was a bang bang play is what it is. You know, it's unfortunate, and then he was like it was a terrible call. I was like, okay, good,

glad we all agree that. I actually said, like the last thing I said last night before I went to bed was like, it's funny. And here's why. What my answer to your question, Derek would be people aren't talking about it because it's hard to get riled up about that injustice when the defense played that poorly, like and you're absolutely right, like bad call should have been a pick. It's one of my least favorite things in football. I really think the game moves so fast that referees just

use like benchmarks to make calls. Like literally, I think the ref was like, whoa, that sounded like a hard hit. That's probably a flag and it's such trash, it's garbage, Like there was no he didn't use his crown, there was no like intent to harm. He didn't like spear him. He just made a really great play and wound up with the ball and got penalized for it. It's utter trash. At the same time, you give up three hundred and seven rushing yards and forty nine points. It's I just

it's hard for me to get too worked up about it. Well, and also, I would imagine seventy five percent of those calls that happened like that are getting thrown from the sideline, with every person on that sideline saying helmet, the helmet, legal hit, all that kind of stuff, and and and then I think that the guy has to throw it, you know, he feels like he has to throw it. But it's like, why do they have helmets on if they don't they bump heads. I mean, it happens. I

mean football players, they run into each other. That's why they wear helmets. And I don't I just don't think that that is should be called every single time. Um, it's just not a fifteen yard penalty. I mean that these guys are moving so fast and then they go and then they replay it and they slow it down and they're like, oh my god, look look look what this guy did. When it happens so quick, yeah, I

think Dave was right on the indicator part. Like, I think the referee sees the guy's head jerked back and they assume that that Joe Thomas's helmet hit the receiver's helmet and that's what causes head to go back. In this instance, the ball was between them. Yeah, so it was actually the ball that probably jarred his hit. And there was obviously force coming from Joe Thomas, but it

was not a helmet to helmet hit. And that's where I look at this and I'm like, I think when you use the indicators, you're gonna come up in situations where it's not going to be right in it. Once again, I think that's where the college team. The college team has it a little bit better to do because they will review those kinds of things and they will be able to reverse them if they feel like it wasn't

targeting or if scoring players are reviewable. I think, you know, personal foul fifteen yard penalties should be reviewable too, because what if he didn't grab his face mask? You know, like you think he did, but what if he didn't. No, I mean just play no, No, I'm just saying, what if one of those things happened, though, I mean that that that changes everything day. So what was your moment that mattered. It's funny because like I feel weird saying that it. I mean it did, but it's it's after

all of this has happened. Like really, the game obviously got away from him in the second quarter in my opinion, with the way the defense is playing. But I mean, you know, Beam Beckham's play to ice the game was just so it was such a fitting encapsulation of how terrible this all was. You know, it's forty one thirty eight, they're cooking three forty two to play. You got one time out. You don't even have to be perfect to get the ball back, Like you can give up a

first down and still get the ball back. You can give up a field goal and still give your offense the ball down six with you know, a minute and some change to play. That's what everybody was thinking, right, and then literally one play, one play end around Odell Beckham. Alden Smith is the only member of the front seven who properly diagnoses what's going on. I'm not gonna hate on Alden Smith for not being able to tackle Odell Beckham in the open field like, that's a mismatch. But

then you get up field. Odell picks up the first down, Big deal, he's on the sideline. You push him out of bounds. You live to fight another down. It's not over yet. Oops. Never mind. The entire back seven overruns the play. Diggs, Joe Thomas, Joe Thomas takes out you can go look at it. Joe Thomas takes out the blocker, which probably not great, but at least he's getting somebody out of the way. Like two other guys overrun the play,

Trayvon Diggs. I think it is. Somebody runs out of bounds thinking the play is over, and then Jerk's head back around like, oh crap, wait the guy with the ball still going, you know, Jalen Smith is laid getting there, and now Adell's in the end zone on a fifty yard touchdown. And it was just symptomatic of how awful they were all day, and it was just it was a very fitting way to take Hope out of the game. I mean, it was breathtaking. You think about that, Dave,

and you think about playing defense in NFL. You actually have an extra defender. It's called the sideline, and so you should always defender. When a guy's running towards the sideline, you should be using the sideline to your advantage so you don't overrun the play going out of bounds. You stay inbounds and force him to have to run out of bounds because the sideline is your friend. They all, like three or four guys completely overrun the play and end up out of bounds, and it was just baffling

to me. And the guy that should have overrun the play is Alden Smith, you know, because because he actually tries to make the tackle, if he actually overruns the play, I can promise you you know. I'm not saying Odell's like Dion Sanders business decision, but he doesn't want to

run the ball between the tackles. So if you forced him to cut, because he could have done that and he to have to cut back through the middle and then he's probably gonna dive and get get out of that, he doesn't want any part of that, which I would. I don't blame him, but that's unfortunately. I don't blame Alden Smith for that. But if he could have taken a different angle and forced him back inside, then that

would have kind of blown the whole play up. But you know, the one thing I will say, I think in that instance, all them did what he should have done, which is if you notice like he forced Beckham to take a track that was going backwards, like he went backwards to come from Odell can do that. That's my point. He didn't. But my point is this defense, any defense, when you've got a guy who gets the ball on an end of round, which is a slow developing play,

you made him go backwards and then come forward. The fact that none of them could get in position to then be able to tackle him, that just even more shows you just how bad they were on that be Let me ask you this then, if if it's first and ten at the fifty, the Browns still run a reverse on first and ten at the twenty five, well, that's a good question because that brings up the whole idea of what the Cowboys did there after they got to that forty one thirty eight point. And I don't

know if you call it an on side kick. I don't know if you call it a squip kick. Whatever they did gave the Cleveland Browns the ball in the fifty,

and so that is a fair question. Do you think that if the Cowboys would have kicked it off traditionally and Cleveland's taking the ball at their own twenty five, if they're a bit more conservative in their play calling, knowing that they got to go seventy five yards, and they may be thinking, let's take time off the clock, let's let's do things that are that are a little

bit more conservative. What do you think amber there? I mean, at this point, I'm just listening to you guys, and I'm like, Okay, yeah, a lot of things could have gone differently, and maybe one single play could have changed the game, but there were there were so so many different things that happen all throughout the game that I don't know if something like that would have made a big difference, or at least enough of a difference to

get the Cowboys with a win. At this point, I'm kind of over the whole game and I'm just looking, Okay, what do the Cowboys need to do this week? Moving forward? I get that they're about to play the Giants and they're a lot terrible right now, but they need to figure out and my biggest question right now is what is the biggest change that needs to happen? And I get it, and I keep seeing that fans keep asking

about Earl Thomas, and I don't. I guess people expect that you get Earl Thomas and then the whole defense is just gonna magically change and be fixed. I don't know exactly what all needs to happen. Do you guys have an answer? As far's just the defense overall, forget those specific moments, just defense overall. What do you do to fix it in the next two weeks at least? Well, I'm gonna hold you on that because that's a topic

that we're gonna hit tomorrow. Can we have a lot more time to dive into it and uh and really diagnose what we think of the things that they can actually change? Dave you as I'm you're about to say, I was just gonna say, play bad teams, which they will. They will play bada. That will help for next week. But we do I do think it's a valid question, No, Amber, And I think it takes a lot more than the four minutes we got left, because I think that's a

that's a much bigger question. We start talking about what can fix this defense? Because they are historically bad right now? Are we're gonna take our final break really quick when we come back. I do want to see if we can squeeze in a fan question here, What'll do that when we come right back? This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Sam's eighteen sixty five Stetson Hats are American made with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is

proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and pride two You can by purchasing your own Stetson. You can look just like how the flag guys do on field at every home game. Stetson hats the official crown of all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get yours today at shop dot Dallas Cowboys dot com or at Stetson dot com. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys.

Back in the day, I was the guy who always got the tough yards, and that's why I run with John Deer today. In fact, I have a John Deer three zero twenty five E tractor that can handle any yard work I need to do, even the tough yards way out back. So if you have one acre or a thousand John Deer has the equipment that's just right for you. Visit a John Deer Dealer today and run with us. We are the official tractor provider of your

Dallas Cowboys. Want to use what the pros use? How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Clack skincare favorites, plus a full size and tense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word team JB. That's get

Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys. The Jack Black Starter ten bucks, free shipping. We're back in the tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Bata and cream Soda. Is he a Newcombone's music to my ears? Okay, Doctor Times, music to my ears and mouth? New Doctor Pepper and cream Soda. Dela's just do back back to the break. Are you coming to the Cowboys game this weekend?

If so, make sure you know before you go, you wear a mask, keep distance unless you're the safeties, and be prepared for cashleist transactions. Please be aware of all safe stadium policies before arriving at AT AT and T State Visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash safe Stadium. Welcome back to the final segment of I mean not everyone needs to keep distance, but it's really for fans s w

c BC, I'm sorry, that's WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start, we only got about a minute left, so I figure, let's try to get a question squeezed in here, Amber, What do you have from fans? They're happy? There's actually I've seen a couple of these questions, and Derek, you and I were talking about this yesterday. But here's the question that I guess we're trying to understand is why we've seen so many of these defenders play better than this in the past and then right now they're just

worse than we've seen before. So we know that there is talent there, but why a guy like the Marcus Lawrence, for example, Jalen Smith, who hasn't been necessarily great, but he's played better better. Why guys like that just not

playing the part this year. You know, I think it's a fair question, and I want to hear what Nick and Dave have to say, but I think it's a fair question because when you look at it like they're playing, like like I said before the break, historically bad, and for me, it makes me at least look and say there is something going on from a scheme and or just I don't get this, like I'm making mental My

mental awareness is not there. There's something going on that goes beyond just how you play with regards to how this defense is playing as a unit. You agree with that, disagree with that, Dave, I'm sorry, Nick, start with you. I agree. I think that there's something missing, and I think what was missing is probably the installation period that they had having to do this on the run. Now. I'm not giving them excuses for being historically bad, but a lot of things are going against them, and it

just it's not helping. Number One, their injuries at very key positions and multiple injuries at those positions. Number two, the lack of the installation I think really helped. But three, and most importantly, these players are aren't aren't as good. I mean the like they're just not as good, and I guess if you could say four, the Mike Nolan's track record hasn't been that great as a defensive coordinator.

So you add all of those things together and you're getting you're getting record setting defenses, not in the good way, Dave. I agree with everything Nick just said. I do. I particularly in the case of Jalen Smith. Like I mean, I still think I think DeMarcus is still a pretty good player. He's not. He's not justifying the salary right now, but I'm not I'm not watching him like damn, where where is the guy from two years ago? That's how

I feel watching Jalen Smith. To be very honest with you, you know, I can't help but think of the play he made in Houston in twenty eighteen. I think was week five or week six, fourth down, or maybe it was third down, but Deshaun Watson is sprinting for the sticks to try to pick it up, and Jalen just fetched him and smashed him on the sideline to stop it.

Jalen Smith's not making that play in twenty twenty. I don't think he could have made it last year either, and it it's painfully obvious when you watch and I don't have an answer. I don't know what happened. I don't know why he doesn't seem to have that burst. I think, you know, his instincts, they haven't always been bad, but that's always been the part of his game that he needed to develop. And it seemed in twenty eighteen like his athleticism was going to allow him to compensate

for that. And we're just not seeing it. And we didn't see it last year, and it doesn't seem different this year. And you know, we can go back to the summer. Nick said every week that Mike Nolan's got to figure out a way to make Jalen Smith better. You got to figure out a different way to use him or a way to employ him that that makes him better. And it's not happening through the first month of the season. And it's it's really weird to watch because I do I think he was a really good

linebacker in twenty eighteen. Maybe that's because he had Layton playing next to him at an all pro level. Maybe it's because he had more burst in that knee. I don't know, but he's not the same player, and I think it's it's probably the biggest problem facing this defense right now in terms of production, but also the way that you manage your cap and the dollars and all of that stuff. It's a problem on a lot of

different levels in my opinion. Yeah, to be honest with you, once they get Layton and once they get Sean Lee back from injury, I would not be shocked at all if those are your two linebackers the majority of the game when you're playing Nickel, I think right now, the way the way Jalen Smith is playing right now suggests that that he just is He is a He's a much bigger part of the problem than he is a

part of the solution. And I'll be interested to see what happens when those other guys are back and available. And I'm wondering right now, I told you this, Nick this morning after I went back and watched a lot of the play plays back on television. I'm wondering at this point if you though some of those younger linebackers can give you more than what you're getting right now

with Jalen. That's how poorly I think he's playing. And again, you might have somebody who's a coach that who's more in depth has more knowledge of this than I do. Who may say, hey, it's not really him all the time that you think it's him, But all I know is what i'm seeing just suggested he's leaving a light

out there. And I'll challenge you to do this if you want to know kind of you want to be able to look at the difference, watch a Cowboys game, watch that game yesterday, and then go watch a Seahawks game and look at those linebackers in both games. Just watch the linebacker play. You will see the difference of what I'm talking about in how he plays linebacker and how those linebackers, and those are some of the better linebackers in the league. I'm just saying you will see

the delta between the two. But you know, they drafted a linebacker in the first round, they drafted a first round linebacker in the second round, and Jalen Smith hoping that he would come back. So they've invested linebackers to be really good. So I don't know if that's really an unfair comparison to say, well, Seattle's got great linebackers. The Cowboys invested enough to have great line actress as well,

and therefore it hasn't happened. I'm not ready to just jump on this jail and thing like everyone else is and say he's that bad. I don't know yet. I don't need to watch. Let's ask Bucky on Wednesday, because he says that he was playing as good as anyway. I bet he changes his answer. I guess he's not gonna say that. And when we get around having that conversation Wednesday. All right, we appreciate you guys, Jonas. We'll be back tomorrow. As Amber told you, we're gonna talk

a little bit about how we solve this thing. Of course, we're not gonna be any of the meetings, but we're gonna give you some Bring some answers. Please bring some answers. So let's figure it out between two day and all right, Bernick Gabon, Dave Hellman, Ambergarci, I've Derek Eckelton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.