Cowboys Break: Game Management in D.C.?

short show. Um, real quick. Yesterday we spend the whole time pretty much talking about Amari Cooper and I wanted to really throw it quickly to you. You got a chance to get first step on him yesterday and talk to talk to him yesterday. I wanted to hear what were some of the things that he said? How what were your first impressions? Well, this will be short. Um. He walked right in, walked by the weight room, locker room,

went sat down. He didn't talk to anybody else other than than our set, and I got to talk to him before Jason Garrett, which was which was good. I was told he doesn't do a lot of interviews, doesn't talk a lot, and I was like, okay, well, well's all right, it'll be fine, It'll be fine. And it was one of the toughest interviews I've ever done. As you can see on the website, he's a nice guy. He reminds me of talking to like a ten year old eleven year old, a shy kid. If you leave

them an out, they'll take it. They're not just gonna open up. So I didn't ask the best questions in the world because he was kind of like, yep, you know. I was like, how does that sound, Dallas Cowboy? You know, I'm Mark Cooper News Dallas Cowboy, And he was like, sounds good. And I knew right then that it was going to be on U And it was tough. But you know, he talked about working hard, he talked about wanting to win games, like that's his focus as to

win games. And as I said so times on Twitter, there's a lot of wide receivers around this team in the last few years that do a lot of talking. So if he's not one that does a lot of talking, that's maybe a good thing. Well, at the end of the day, can he play, That'll be a lost important anyone cares about. We'll see now moving on from that, since we spend a lot of time on him yesterday, I wanted to touch on real quick. He's here, he practiced, We were out there practice. Where is that what you

were touching on? Big old just big looking dude, fills out that uniform. Nice. Yeah, that's always good football. That's always good that you're like, you know, you're like, he's a stud. I get a good thing to say about a guy, but it sounds weird. I get uncomfortable every year during Jeff season when people start talking about the thickness of the thighs and all that. I'm just like, that's a little much. Man. He's got so much for me.

He got some on him. Jerry Jones is like famous quote when he was like, Troyman looks good getting out of the shower. Yeah, just like too much for me. There's a strange dichotomy there. We don't have to get into it on this show, but there's a strange dichotomy in football doubt anyway. Well, today the plan is to talk about the game since we haven't had a chance

to do so, even though it's Wednesday already. But there are still things to discuss, and I know you two have a little debate going on, but before we get into it, I wanted to go over the injuries that have happened since then. Randy Gregory, he had a minor knee scope and he's supposed to be back by the time when you're about to say, before you say it,

go ahead. What is nothing minor about a surgery? Yes, well, I mean something like that, but football football and football players are insane like that's I mean, yeah, he had this minor thing where we went into his knee and gug gug loose cartilage out of it and just you know, we cut him open, but he's he'll be ready. Cut you open for a scope, though, do they? Yeah, I mean surgery, Well yeah, you have to go. They open.

It was just like a little like the distickle. It's like almost like a well, like an injection going is it's certain you're right now, you're going, you're right. I mean, it's not like they it's not like it's put it on PBS, but I mean to watch it's they invaded his body with the foreign object and doug stuff. Every time you get a okay, so downplay this. He got a knee scope and they expect him to be ready for Monday. That's crazy to me, It's not crazy. That's okay.

By week to rest very time. Whatever. Chill out today, chill out tomorrow, get some rest, take advantage. I've heard you wine enough about your running injuries to say, and what I do. I keep running through away, just away for me, seriously, we're not going back there. You're not going back there, need less to say. Based on what they said, it's nothing major. It's a minor thing. But it's kind of common for these guys to get now.

Geoff's Jeff Swain. Jeff Swain, he sprained his mcl against the Redskins, and any updates on how major this one is. No real concrete update. J he was getting an MRI yesterday. Jason Garrett's hopeful that it's a sooner rather than later type of deal, but he wasn't willing to speak concretely about it. Hopeful for some more information later in the week. I mean, sprain MCLs always seem to be two to four, That's what it always seems to be. I mean, every

injury is different. I get it. And that's what Malik Collins had and he missed. He got he got hurt in a week two and he wasn't back until the Jags game. So but you know that being said one week would be you know, to the buye weekend. Two weeks is which and the Titans in a Monday night game. Zach Martin, I don't know. I mean, you'd probably call it a sprain as well, sprained his knee, but I'd be shocked if he's not ready for the Titans game.

So that's true, but come back into the game. No two injuries are the same, and no two players are the same. So but since you got seventeen tight ends on this team, you can do whatever you can. Bring No Brown back and he can be tighten. But that doesn't bring up an interesting point though about the tight ends it's been. I mean, I think this season we've seen that Jeff Swain has been the predominant guy at

tight end. He's played more than anybody else. That does open up a really interesting question of who's going to take over that role. Will they be just blitting that role and now you're gonna have a different tight end in and tight end in their every play, like or both terrifying both. I mean, no, that's and that's not I mean, Jeff, Jeff's a good player. I don't think you're like, oh my god, it's it's not like losing Jason Witten, but it still is. That's the best of

what they have. He is the only one of the four that I trust to handle blocking and route running assignments and catch the ball when it is thrown at him. He's the only one that I remotely trust. Think about how many snaps he has and how many targets he has this year, I mean that means he's doing what he's blocking, and if he's probably the best of that, he's actually pretty good. That's pretty good. He's not Martella Spinet,

but he's not bad at all. And that's actually one of the interesting things I think when because if memory started to me correct when he first got here, I don't think he was that good of a blocker, and it seems like that's a part of his game that he's developed and worked on and gotten really good at. Whitton wasn't a good blocker, No, he wasn't. I mean, he's getting away at you. But if you can be

a tide end that can get in the way. Oh, he told me that that's one of the things that he's the most proud of, this blocking game and yeah, Jeff he I asked him when he got his first touchdown, was it Yeah, when he got his first touchdow, I asked him, I'm like, hey, how does that feel like? Okay? Do you like better now being able to catch the ball and make plays or do you prefer blocking? And he's like, oh, I prefer blocking. I That's what I love doing and that's what he's the most proud of doing.

So so that's gonna be that's gonna be a big No, that would be a big loss. I didn't say it is a huge problem if he's out for any extended period. I mean, this is one of those situations where the depth chart order might be a certain way now because you know swaying up there, and then you fill in in the other guys. But because of what he does predominantly and what that position does, you might see some changes in Wait, I mean think about who might start.

I think Rico probably will start now. Yeah, I might be your best flocker. No, it's not gonna be Schultz. I mean, I'm sorry, Um, And I don't know if Jarwin's really that that great of a blocker either. I think Rico might be your best blocker there. But don't don't forget too, You've got some Darian. I can't believe I almost went there, almost went there. Who's seventy five Fleming? Fleming ran yea, not even thinking about Byron Bell? You went back, like way back in the I yeah, that's

a good point you could use. He really isn't that old, dar Now, Darren Williams, isn't that old? You could use Cam Fleming as a as a you know, a tackle tight end, although obviously he doesn't give you anything as a pass catching threat. But that's if Jeff swam. If Jeff Swain is out for a serious period of time, I think you either need to think about finding another tight end or which I don't believe this will happen, or adjusting the way you play and using fewer tight ends.

No I know, yeah, I don't expect that to happen either. So well you also, but you don't have Tavon right now, so that may affect their ability to want to do that, because when you want it to do that, you had Tavon in the mix, right That's which is why this is so curious and why I'll be interested. You know,

maybe something will come out today. But also Jason Garrett talks again tomorrow, and I'm sure he will be asked about that, because I don't like the idea of trying to play games without him the way that this team likes to play. When do we know anything about Noah Brown and when he could possibly be back he can practice? Actually saw him this morning doing routes on air, just you know, with a strength coach, nothing official or serious looking,

but running routes. They could start his clock and bring him back to practice today if they wanted to, and he can play starting week nine, so he could play against the Titans if they wanted to do that. But the reason why I say this, because he is the reason why he has been here I think for so long, is because they think he is a value to them as a blocker, and they do motion him a lot into situations where they want to block in line a little bit more, so you know, maybe that's some way

to offset that a little bit. Well. Also, you gotta you know there's more evaluations going on than just him, because you've got guys on injury reserve. Two of these players can come back this year, he would be one of them, and then whoever else you want. Travis Frederick was another guy that could be. I don't think anyone believes Travis Frederick is going to come back and play this year. I don't. I don't anyone that walks they

can see him walking around, would think that. Yeah, Terrence Williams, I don't believe it's coming back again ever, and anybody else than I are it's Travis Terrence. So no, you know Dayton Jones. Dayton Jones also somebody I completely forgot about um so much that I can't even remember his freaking name. Um the guard, the guard who heardst there you go. Yeah, I forgot all about him as well. Yeah, no, I'm you know, completely forgot. I wonder how much they

could have used him this year. We'll never know those the fun what ifs of a football season. That much he had work to do. I mean, he came in looking like a guard and a tackle, so he needed to. Well. When we just talking yesterday about having that bigger body, although maybe that helps a little bit, it is it's a name to remember for next year when you're talking about problems on this offensive line though, just saying yeah, so not to I mean, that's February talk or March talk,

but we've got to talk about something time. Um. And then the last guy I almost forgot to mention is the cornerback C J. Goodwin, who is expected to have surgery after an arm fracture. Another great point, having surgery on his broken forearm. I think he had it yesterday and literally, like this was the conversation, was like, so he'll go on IR and Jason Garrett was like, yeah, not necessarily. We'll see, we'll see what his timetable is and see if it's realistic to keep him. I'm just like,

are you insane? Broke your forearm like just snapped it in two And they're like, he's wrapping up things. Could he'll he's throw on the team in special teams tackles already. Yeah, And I'm Barry Church did that two or three years ago. Like maybe his bones, I don't know, maybe his bones can heal. Hiks. What he's doing is running down on punts and making plays. Can you play the cast? Well,

that's the thing. I mean, it's his it's not his foot, it's his right Okay, but you need your arm to tackle, not necessarily if you got a cast on it, you could still especially if it's kind of cast it doesn't encumber his hands. Well didn't he still could? You're you're right, right down and make a tackle. You're right. But also the main thing there is the rundown there, getting the guy's face and make them call faircatch. That's the main thing that you know, so especially in today's game. Yeah,

all right, exactly. Okay, I'm talking about meta humans here. They're not they are. They're meta humans. They're different, they're different species than the rest of us. Believe that. Okay, Um, if they need band aids, probably not. I'm thinking they just laughed at all that. Yeah, let's take our first break and when we come back, we're gonna get into the game, the details of the game play, calling and all that, and I'll throw the debate over to that side.

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It's Wednesday, the game ended four days. Stop it. I'm gonna get you high up right now, all right, and you better bring it if you want to win this argument. All right. One of you saying that the play calling was good, another one was saying another play calling wasn't good, or that it should have been a little different than the decisions. Let me started start. I don't even think that that that statement is that accurate, but I'll just

essentially that is. But essentially, because I'm not trying to be hypocritical here, Derek knows this. The ball was at the thirty seven yard line at one point. He asked me, how many more yards do you need? And I said thirty seven seven I need I want them to score. Maybe that was personal preference. I don't want to go to overtime again. Let's do this, Let's let's get it done. Um, but I do think just when you when Jason's get

and killed about managing the game. I think when four minutes to go, you're down by ten, and to think, you know what, you're gonna have a forty six yard field goal to tie this game, everyone would have taken it. I thought they managed it well to get to that point, forty six yards forty seven yards, and then of course we saw what happened. The snapper got an a penalty called on him and the kicker missed the kick. So but I thought to that point, I thought Jason Garrett

did a good job of getting him there. Could have been better. Yeah, it could have been better, But I mean that's that's my taking. And you you made a really good point, and I'll own it. Like we were on the sideline at the end of that game, and I you know, I'm like, well, what do you stand to lose by going for the onside kick, like you gotta get you have to hold him to a three and out, and they did, but you didn't know that

at the time. So you're like on side kick, if you don't get it, you can still get the ball back. Even if you're pinned, you still have a chance they didn't do that. They played it great. Sean Lee forced Alex Smith out of bound. So I agree with you in the sense that trailing by ten with four minutes to play, they did a really good job to put

themselves in position to extend the game. But fifty two seconds to play and a time out on the opponent's forty six yard line, you've been out played basically all day, and you have a chance to, in the best case scenario, steal a win from the opponent, or, in the worst case scenario, kick a field goal. I just I don't believe they tried hard enough to put themselves in a position to succeed, even if it's only a field goal. H This was the sequence. It's first and ten from

the forty six. They throw a nine yard pass to be Beasley along the far side line. He goes out of bounds, and do I have that right? Well, it says short pass short right to Beasley for nine yards. Here we go. No, No, I'm sorry, No, the long past to Beasley along the sidelines set them up on the forty six. Yes, Then they throw short to Beasley along the right side, which two he does not get out of bounds and to the credit of people that defend this, Like if it's a better thrown ball, Beasley

probably keeps running and it's a different story. But I just I didn't like the way they carried themselves. He goes down after nine yards, they jogged to the line.

I mean they threw that, you know, the play star of fifty two seconds left, they snapped the next ball with twenty eight it's another pass over the middle, which don't like that, and they kind of jogged to the line, and then there's a review and then there's twelve seconds left, and like, honestly, at that point then you've made your bed. So that's not I'm not the guy sitting here saying, with twelve seconds to play, you should have been taking

shots at the end zone. No, with fifty two seconds to play, I mean, how many times have we seen Jason Witten run the five yard out to move yourself closer? You know, like in that situation, like where are the short quick passes to get out of bounds? And that's

Tony Romo was saying it. Obviously we couldn't hear it at the time, but Tony Romo is like, I'm running short stuff, running slants, I'm keeping my time out alive, I'm trying to move into field goal range, and then I want to take a want to attack the end zone at least a couple of times perfectly said Tony, well done. And they didn't do that, Like they got literally to the edge of what is considered makeable field goal range, and we're like, that's good for us. May

ask you this question. Let's assume for a second the Cowboys went the route that you did and they got to a point where they were able to attack and actually throw to the end zone. Do you think there was any concern by the coach or should have been concerned by the coach that if you get into that scenario,

you don't know that you want to do that. He'd already been sacked four times that day, and the likelihood that he gets sacked in the situation like that, in my mind, there was relatively high probability that that could happen. And it then pushes you out of field goal range. Are you get off or maybe gets a turnover? Are you all concerned about that or the fact that Connor Williams couldn't block anyone that day? Lyle Collins was having

an all kinds of problems. Tyrant Smith. They were getting called for holding as well, And if they're gonna sit there and call a holding a snap in fraction at that point and juncture in the game, then they'll definitely call a holding as well. So I think that that has to play a factor into like you're are there, now you're getting greedy. We could be back and lose this whole thing. I have two thoughts to that one.

Jason Garrett himself said yesterday that as bad as they were overall, he thought that the final two scoring or the final two drives, the scoring drive, the Dak rushing touchdown and then the missfield goal says the cleanest the line played all day. So they were playing well according to the two drives, they were playing well. On top of that, Fabian Moreau, who's your number two cornerback because Quentin Dunbar didn't play, gets hurt on the eighteen whatever

yard completion to Beasley the third down right there. So you've got reserves playing corner and so you're over your O lines playing well. Washington Secondary's depleted this pro football, Like, I mean, you gotta, yeah, there's a risk, you gotta

take some risks. If you want to win, and I just and like I said, I mean, maybe maybe asking them to go score a touchdown is a tall order, but with fifty two seconds in a time out, I like to think you could at least get down near the red zone and at the very least give Bret Maher an easy kick instead of a very difficult one. I think that's the part I agree with you most on. I don't know that I ever would have seeing how

this game played. I know what he said about those last two drives, but I know I was thinking as they were driving, don't take a sack. Don't take a sack, because they had been in his grill all day, and so my thought was they could have probably managed to clock better and maybe that gets them an extra player two and if they use it on short pit passes,

that could just kind of move them a little closer. Now, even if you get the same exact penalty you got, you still are within range for Brett Maha to be able to make that kick. And you know, I think without the penalty, I think that kid goes in, you know, just a little bit back further and him pulling it just a slight bit to where it hit the upright. I don't think that happens if he's got four more

five more yards. So if they would have just done enough to get that five more yards, you probably have a different outcome. So I agree with you from that stamp. Well, and it's a it's a systematic thing with football coaches, and this is an this isn't Jason Garrett specific, but I I really truly believe like most football coaches, in their heart of hearts are going to make the decision that's easier to defend than than necessarily the right decision. Yeah, I do. I don't think, I really I think. I

think the public perception is I really don't. It's not about I don't. I don't think most coaches do. I it's not so much public perception, but like people get fired over this stuff, and so I think, like when at the end of the day, they want to be like, well, what what do you want me to do? Like I did the smart thing instead of the bold thing. So

how many times, how do we account for? How many times over the last two or three weeks in the NFL have we seen coaches do unconventional things and a lot of them have backfired on them and it ended up being I call that didn't win the game. I think it's changing, and I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of those types of decisions are younger, newer head coaches making them, like Doug Peterson and Mike Rabel.

And a lot of this has to do, in my opinion, with the overtime rules that I think have got to be I hate, You've got to get this thing figured out in some way in overtime. I don't care about the TV. I know they do a TV and the time and all that stuff, but I think it's affecting things. I mean, it's like, you know what, I got a better shot to go win this game at the two point conversion than to go to play overtime. We're seeing

that a little bit more. That's another point too, which is like you know, you're like, well they haven't been playing and well all day, like just just get to overtime. Well, let's play out overtime. Like worst case scenario, Washington gets the ball, drives down the field. Okay, if they score

a touchdown, games over. So let's say they kick a field goal, they kick off back to you and you start at your twenty five, and now you've got to go at least fifty yards to get into makeable fuel goal range, if not the whole seventy five yards to win the game. You don't know how much time you got on the clock exactly. You could get the ball

back with two minutes for or whatever. So even if you get to overtime, your offense, unless something crazy happens like a pick six, your offense has to put together a fifty sixty seventy yard drive instead, you're already on the forty six. Why not just try to end the thing right there? Like and again, I know it's a lot easier said than done, but they didn't even really try, right and that they did the issue issues that they didn't try. They didn't try at all, And I don't think, honestly,

I don't think the results would have been different. Probably I do think that the results could have probably turned out to them having a few more yards and maybe that gets you to overtime, But I don't, I don't know. I don't think that they necessarily get at the endzone. It no, and the way that even if they were trying, I don't know that they necessarily getting enzone, no doubt about it, There's no I can't sit here and say they definitely would have scored. This offense doesn't deserve that

benefit of the doubt. But when Cole Beasley catches the ball for nine yards at the Washington thirty seven with thirty two seconds to play, and there's like no urgency whatsoever, I'm just like, what's going on here? Why are y'all? Why is this good enough for y'all? What would you like to see them do in that situation? Are you wanting them to run ups clock the ball that stops the clock, because I assume you're still believing that they

need to save that time out right. If let's say, okay, they completed to Beasley for nine yards, I probably run like a quick sneak or a quick run or no, I'm sorry, spike the ball quick. So then it's third and one, quick play, slant route somethings or something to the outside, and then see where we're at at that point they were at is because that's what I was gonna say. At that point they would have been well,

wouldn't have been third and one? I would have you would have spiked it to get to third and one right, and then it would have been third and one at the Washington thirty one, So you're already in field goal range. You would assume, right, you're assuming at that point as long as you want to take a sack at that point.

Thirty yes, thirty seven, you're right, you're right. Yeah, I mean you said something though about you five more yards would have you know, it would have been a difference there, and they could have gotten five more yards, but they they did that though they were already there. They were

there for a forty seven yard field goal. Right. My point is, if you had one more play and let's say you could pick up five more yards, then even with the penalty, he still are at you know, you're still kicking a field goal that's under fifty and with those extra yards, I think pulling it means it probably even if it hits up right, scan it scantly hits it and bounces end versus hitting it square and bouncing

back right. I mean, or you know them on the lat on the drive before that, the swing pass to Zeke that inexplic like the weirdest play of the entire game, where Zach zach Dac missed Zeke on a swing route. Run that again. Run something towards the sideline. Again, I know he's not on the team, but somebody else can run Jason Witten's route that he was so good at. You run three yards, does it regularly break towards the sideline,

something that's going to stop the clock. And again I completely agree it's a slim bet that they actually score a touchdown. But just the lack of even trying, and you can even take an argument and don't even say that, just say don't just like the Baltimore game five or six years ago, where you know they're like, well, Bailey for fifty one like that, you know he can make it. I mean, you don't have to settle for a kick. You can try to make it an extra point type

field goal. Right, It's a tough balance. I just think overall, I don't think game management there was poor. They had a chance to tie the game, and weird things happened and they missed. But I mean, I don't disagree one hundred percent. You could have done a little bit more. But I can see with the way that Lyon was playing, which when that goes, okay, forget what I you know, if you disagree with me. Forget what I said about

coaching coaches making safe decisions. But I can see in Jason Garrett's mind, you are in Brett Maher's makeable range, and if you keep throwing the ball and something terrible happens, then you get killed for yeah, for being greedy when you're already in his range. But it's a windy day outdoors in the fall. I would at least try to get him closer. But every time you started relying on who you think would get the job done for you

does when he bites you in the butt. But isn't that also the definition of what it is to be versus a conservative coach versus more aggressive coaching. He keeps maintain and he's an aggressive coach, but what we've seen this year suggests that that's not necessarily the case. In this instance, the instance of going forward on fourth down, those are more he's shown more of an example of being of being a conservative minded coach than an aggressive line.

I don't know. I think he's he's he's showing that he's a coach that's actually seeing what's happening and going, Okay, I'm gonna play off the percentages here right then, that's what conservative is. We didn't get one inch on third and one, so now on fourth and one, we're gonna get it. Our defense is playing well. I have a good punter. I can stop. I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying, but that's the definition of conservative. Conservative means I'm gonna

calculate everything, and I'm gonna make it calculated decision. Aggressive means I listen all that, but I'm gonna go with my gut and say I'm just gonna go for it because I think that's what I need to do in order to get a win. That's why to me, playing to win the game and playing to not lose the game is the exact same. That's why I believe that for that very reason right there is that it's it's all the same either way, the result is exactly the same.

Whether you're aggressive to get there or you're calculated, it's the same. That's I can argue this all day. We every time a game ends this way. Nick and I fight about this because and it's it's fine. I see his point, but I think that's yeah, read the situation, and I just think being aggressive more aggressive there it gives you your best chance to win, and that's at the end of the day. Jason Garrett still has to

make those decisions, so he gets credit for them. But I believe most of his aggressive decisions have been painfully obvious. But it's not like he's it's not like they're truly that aggressive. It's like, well, yeah, it's fourth and half an inch, of course, you know. That kind of goes back to my point too real quick. When you guys talk about coaches caring what the what they're gonna get killed for, if that were the case, I think he would have been more aggressive because what does he getting

killed for right now? Being too conservative, he decided, I'm gonna still go with the percentages. The percentages say, we get into this range, we're gonna be a little more thoughtful about what we're gonna do, and we're gonna put our kicker out there and try to make that field goal. I don't think he really cared about what people fuck because that did. That's not what played out, you know. Well, percentages also said that you know, you keep you keep

going back there to pass, you're gonna get another sack. Yeah, so you know, and that that would have hurt everything as well. So I don't know. I just think he kind of played the situation he had it there. You know, if you if you think, you know, you know what, I need five more yards because they might call a penalty that we have never seen in the last thirty one years. So if they do that, then we're going

to be screwed. Yeah, if they win this game. I wonder if I wonder if people would have said the same thing about about how it all played out. I know, Dave, you were on the sideline saying, what are we what are they doing? Why are they not having more why are they not more urgent? But get that. If I wonder how many people would be saying that if they because her miss isn't against Detroit, then they didn't get

close enough there. Then they shouldn't have taken that one play where he just rolled off to the side to get to the middle. They should have done something to get seven more yards. So he didn't hook the ball against Detroit. And that you don't think like that. Coaches never never really get hey, good job, good managing the game. It's always when they lose. And that's the nature of the business that comes with the Dinners would say, and yeah, I mean, I pat myself on the back because it's

not hindsight. I was questioning these decisions as they were happening. But if they had found a way to win the game, I wouldn't be hard to argue that I would be like, well, I would have done but it worked out. So we move on to the next subject. All right, Well, this was a great debate and a good conversation. Thank you everyone for your opinions, but we do have to end the show. We have to head to the locker room and listen to what these players have to say about

all this mess. So let's figure that out. For Derek Kingleton, Nicki Man, David Hellman, and Burgercia. This has been the Cowboys Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.