Cowboys Break: Earl-y Assumptions

I am live from the virtual s WBC Mortgage Studio. I got Dave Hellman, Nick Eatman, Amber Garcia along with me, and we got an hour of Cowboys talk for you guys right here on the Break. We're going to get into a lot of topics today. Actually, we're gonna do some camp battles. Cowboys about halfway through training camp at this point. It's hard to believe, but in proximbly two and a half weeks, Cowboys will be playing their first game against the Rams in Los Angeles. But we're gonna

talk about some camp battles. We have about six different positions that we're going to talk about, some different players and how they're performing, how they're competing. But before we get to that, we have to start with a topic that we've talked about many times on this show before and thought we were done with the topic until late last week when Earl Thomas became available because the Baltimore Ravens cut him. So let's talk a little bit about

this guys. Jerry says yesterday in an interview that he did with our local radio partner, The Fan, we're just weighing where we are on the roster right now. He was noncommittal that the Cowboys would actually have interest in signing him, but he also made it clear that anybody reporting that they are not interested doesn't know what they're

talking about. So I'll start first with just Earl Thomas as a player based upon what the Cowboys have right now on their roster, and understand that Jerry says, they're looking at the roster, looking at their own safeties. Where do you think Earl Thomas would rate relative to those guys?

Does he come in, Is he immediately much better, becomes a starter, so maybe it makes it worth it, or do you think at this point in his career maybe there's a bit of a decline and he just kind of fits in, it's maybe not worth the hassle of bringing him in. I'll start first with you, Nick. His last game was the Pro Bowl. He's going to be better than anybody on the team at safety. He's better than those guys. They know that going in. They don't need to see more tape of Darien Thompson or Xavier

Woods or Haha to realize where he's gonna fit. They're trying, I think they're trying to weigh the three pages of baggage that come with them and see if it fits in. But in my mind, he's still head and shoulders above every safety on this team and probably all but one or two in the NFL amber. I mean, there's not much to add to that. That's a guy that has

so much experience. The upside is that the coaches have plenty of tape that they can look at to evaluate him compared to all these younger guys that it's just so much difficult to really know how these players are really going to turn out when the lights come on

in a real game. So he has the whole advantage that he is a proven player, He has the experience, and we've been talking about him for what three years now, so we know that he has the talent, and I think he would be the best guy within the group that the Cowboys currently have. Dave, I do want to I want to say, at least for the record, I mean, you would not be signing the earl from the twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen legion of Boom. I don't think

he's that player anymore. But it's a testament to the work that the Cowboys have not done at the safety position that he would still easily be an upgrade over what they have. I don't think there's any question about it. I don't think you know you're getting in above average safety instead of an elite one at this point in his career. Probably, but there's no evidence that says they have another above average safety. So yeah, I mean's his game has probably dropped off a decent amount, but he

would still be an upgrade. And that's, you know, to nixt point, that ain't the question. So I guess let's go and talk about that question. I think we all agree and Earl Thomas is from a play standpoint above what maybe you have already on the roster. How much do the things that are off the field the things that happened in Baltimore. How much of those things concern you. He had to in a situation that came up with his wife during the offseason where she pulled a gun

on him. We had a situation, obviously with the Baltimore Ravens where there was a teammate who we got into a fight with, and supposedly reports are that their their team inner council made it clear to the head coach and others in the organization that they were okay with the idea of him no longer being with them. All that being said, how can start do you with those other issues that come along with Earl Thomas. Let's start with you, Amber. I am done after hearing all of this.

I am done with the whole Earl Thomas hype and wanting the Cowboys to sign him. Honestly, when it comes to all those off field issues, to me, I look, those things are very very important, especially when you hear the severity of it. You should never, ever, no matter what the situation was on the field, you should never get into a delayma or a fight with a teammate. I don't think that's acceptable and that really hurts your locker room You don't want that from a veteran guy.

You don't want that from someone that you would expect to be a leader in the group. So I just don't think it's healthy for the locker room and the relationship and the dynamic that this team has finally being able to build during the past couple of years. Dave, you know, I have I have a few thoughts about this. Um. I. It's obviously bad. There's obviously a lot of baggage. Um. Clearly, it's not one thing that leads you to get kicked

off of a team like that. Having said that, I will say this is there's this is a very popular playbook with NFL teams. Is this? You know, this stuff never leaks out until the guy is gone, and then when you want an argument for cutting him, there's this

mountain of evidence that nobody ever talked about. You know, we experienced it with Dez Bryant to a degree where he had all of these quirks that were funny and charming when he was very good, and then when they wanted to justify getting rid of him, he was the worst person in the world. Um. Having said that, every year, if you follow the NFL, the Baltimore Ravens are so highly thought of for how smart they are. They kill the draft every year. They find guys like Lamar Jackson

outside the first round. They trade a fifth round pick for Klais Campbell. You know, they are smart. They're one of the best run organizations in the NFL. And for them to be willing to eat that contract to get rid of him says a lot to me. Like they're just like, we don't care if we have to pay you this. We want you gone. Our players want you gone. That's a fourteen and two team that was a game away from the NFC or the AFC championship game. That's

troubling to me. So it's, yeah, I don't know. It gives me a lot of pause, all right, you know, Da Dave. Your point is it reminds me of when Seattle traded for Jamal Adams, and it's like, oh my god, the Cowboys they couldn't afford that if that's the price, But Seattle can afford it because Seattle has done better.

They're in the playoffs every year, they've drafted better, they've got better players around it, and they've got a quarterback locked up, so they could do that where the Cowboys couldn't. That brings me back to your point there. The Baltimore Ravens are like, we can't. We're good, we don't need that. While it's troubling, the Cowboys are not in that situation. The Cowboys need players like that, and so they're not in the same boat of saying we'll figure it out

because we got these other guys. The Cowboys have been trying to figure out safety since this guy, Darren Woodson, so they're in a different boat. And Jerry nineteen ninety two, September of ninety two. I'm not sure everybody on this show was alive then, or at least out of diapers. But Jerry still remembers that Charles Haley came in and

lifted this team to another level. He still knows that that might be twenty eight years ago or twenty seventy or whatever, but he knows that, and he still relies on maybe Earl Thomas or maybe these guys, is that

one thing we need to go over the top. So, you know, a lot of people in this organization I think are agreeing with you guys, but Jerry is it holds the cards, and I think Jerry still thinks this guy might be the one if he remember to be clear about this, Okay, but if if he remembers Charles Hayley, I hope he remembers Greg Hardy too, because it can go the other way. I'm just saying, yeah, I mean, without it, without a doubt, it can. But I mean that and I think that this is this football team

is probably not gonna go four and twelve. I mean Greg Hardy, Greg Hardy wasn't going to help that that team, and yet Greg Hardy destroyed the locker room. I mean that there's no doubt about it. But I think the difference is between those teams is Charles Hayley didn't come in and and he wasn't necessarily the leader that that

that team was already kind of getting established. Greg Hardy played games when Kellen Moore was the quarterback and Brandon Wheaton and Castle and all that where that that whole year was kind of dysfunctional. But um, you're right, I mean you can you can always say that there's the reasons. I mean, and there's a lot more than Gregg Hardy's He's lost more than he has won. When you're taking chances on these guys of a couple in the two

thousand and eight season come to mind. But you know, this year seems kind of different, so I could see where, you know, maybe this will work. Maybe yeah, I'll throw this out too, Dave. I know you mentioned, you know, sometimes it becomes just kind of something that people say once a guy's gone. It's a convenient thing. But you know,

I'll you use the example of Dez Bryan. I'll say, even when Dez was here, we heard about things internally that weren't necessarily publicly known, but things that were happening during the time when Dez was here, where there were some eyebrows being raised within the building about certain things he was doing and sometimes getting away with. So I don't know that I necessarily dismiss a lot of those things that come out once a player's gone. I actually

take the other approach. I actually look at it and say a lot of times the truth actually comes out when a player has gone because there are no consequences to the truth coming out. So I tend to believe some of the stuff we're hearing about what's coming out of ball to more. I just personally believe the guy maybe a little bit better than the problems that maybe he was having there go ahead day. Well, I will also say the other and that's a good point. You know,

when there's no consequences, you can speak more freely. The other thing is you're willing to put up with that stuff if a guy's amazing, and you know, Dez wasn't amazing anymore when they decided to move on from him. And I still maintain my point that Earl is probably no, he's definitely better than what the Cowboys have, but is he on that level where he is worth that headache? I mean, if he is Barnum the best safety in the NFL, sure, if he's the twelfth best safety in

the NFL, is it's still worth it? And I think that's probably what they're weighing, or have been weighing, you know, this week. You know, but Camper, I was gonna say real quick, it makes me wonder. We know how much Earl has been wanting to be a part of the Dallas Cowboys, so it makes me wonder if he was to get here and be signed by the Cowboys, does

he change his behavior? Does he go from doing all these things to now, let me put it all my good boy, hat and do good here and just act better and try to be that kind of leader because he wants to be with the Cowboys. So this is a tough one, honestly. But you know, everything that is that you can read about him stems from he seems unhappy. He means he was unhappy in Seattle to the point to run all the way to the other locker room. And if you're not a Cowboy fan, you hate that.

Cowboy fans didn't bother because they're like, wow, maybe he wants to come here, but that's terrible for a player to really do that. Now. I think she makes a good point though. If this is where he ultimately wants to be, then and he also has to figure out do you want to play football or not? I mean, do you want to be remembered as this guy and kind of tarnish your career or do you want to say, hey,

let's get it together, let's play. You're you're with the team you want to be, your back closer to home at act right, put on your good boy hat if there is one, and and you know what else do you need? I mean, we've got it. You know, an offense here for you that that should score some points. We got seventeen pass rushers in front. I mean, what else is there? So I think I think he might look at this and go, this would be you know, I've got to act right and I've got to you know,

clean this thing up. Yeah. I think the other point you remember there is that you also have to remember that when it comes to these guys, really not just these guys, I'm talking about people in general. When you insert a person into a group dynamic, they may not fit in one group, and then they moved to another group and may fit very perfectly. Right. We don't know the dynamics of that group. We don't know what players

he got along with didn't get along with. We don't know who was the leader and who wasn't like, who was saying things that maybe he took offense to, or what was he saying that maybe someone else took offense to. Are those same dynamics here in Dallas? We don't know. I do want no one thing that I personally believe. I'll ask this question to you, guys. I think that the veterans, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, and this team particular, particularly people like like like take

Um I think there are strong personalities. I think they have skins on the wall, Um, and I think they they would challenge him in a way that I think

he would respect and maybe vice versa. And I think, you know, again, I don't know what the dynamic was in Baltimore, but my question for you guys is do you think that the leadership here on this team, and you could specify on the defense, is strong enough that even if he were to come here and something were to go wrong, that there would that that it wouldn't destroy the locker room because they have good leadership. Let's

start with with you, Dave. I think, I mean, you laid it out really nicely, and I absolutely think that they do have the you know, they have the character to whether that between Tank Tyrone Crawford, UM, Jalen Smiths, Layton Vanner Esh. I mean, the list goes on, but I'll bring it up again, Um, that twenty fifth team was not devoid of guys with skins on the wall. I mean, I know he got hurt, but Tony Romo was here. Dez Bryant was coming off the best season

of his career. Say what you will about his production, but Jeremy Mincy was a respected and well liked leader of that team. You know, he won the Good Guy Award two years in a row. Brandon Carr was here, a high character guy with a lot of skins on the wall, and it didn't stop Greg Hardy from just messing everything up. And you don't want to put all the blame on him, but I think that was instrumental in getting Randy Gregory off the right track. So to some degree, I agree with you, but I also just

I don't think you can predict it that cleanly. Uh yeah, I mean, all all those guys were here last year, and we all agree the chemistry wasn't there for the defense last year. There were some big time problems, especially toward the end of the season when things were frustrating, and that was with Tank here and Jalen here, and again I know it was hurt, but Tyrone Crawford was still hanging around. I mean, to some degree, I'm not sure that even the best locker room can combat that

stuff perfectly. And that's why this gives me so much pause. Honestly, Well, let me ask you this, though, Dave. I want to make sure I'm clear you believe that that Greg Hardy basically was the reason for poor play or do you think it just affected that room or do you think it affected the entire defense? What are you saying about what Greg Hardy brought brought Greg Hardy brought to the team. I think he had a really negative impact on the locker room in a lot of ways. I mean, I

thought that was pretty well documented. Okay, well what happens, Well, what happens there is you're also you also got to remember who was the best player on that defense, Greg Hardy. He was the best player. Now he was a problem off the field. He was problem on the field. That's there's really no difference between that and tarall Owens. When you get a guy in here whose talent is better than the others. David Irving's another example too, David Irving

a guy. These guys play well on the field, it's hard to justify what they're doing. Then off the field they don't do everything they need to. So why if you're a young guy in Hardy's case, Greg Randy, Gregory, DeMarcus Lawrence, why should they be showing up early to meetings? Why should they not fall asleep in meetings? This guy's doing it and he's fine. It's like we say all

the time, Derek, they these guys halt leadership. It's hard to be a leader because you can't tell let's say Earl Thomas comes here and he does it a certain way and Don Wilson's like, well that's the way I'm gonna do it, or that you know, Xavier Woods like I'm gonna do it that way too. That hurts leadership because you can't tell this guy one way he's better than you, he can do it this way. That That's why it's it's kind of tricky though, So you can

say that about Greg Hardy. Greg Hardy was the best player on the team. He showed up after four games, sack Brady twice before halftime. I mean, but was it worth it? No, it wasn't. So it's a leadership strong Enamber. I just go back to what Dave said. There are some things that you might not be able to change with strong leadership. I think that it does help that you have some guys like Tank in the locker room.

It does help that this is the place where a guy like Errol Thomas wants to be or says he wants to be. But at the end of the day, those and even the examples that Dave and Nick just said, You see what happened there. These guys didn't hold up. And maybe all you need is one season from this guy, and maybe you're content with that and it works out. But at the end of the day, me personally, I

don't think it's worth the headache. All Right, I want to flip this conversation a little bit and take you back when we first started talking about all the safeties

at the position. Earlier this week we heard Mike McCarthy talking about Darien Thompson and having a lot of praise for him, and you look at just what they have at safety, I think you'd probably characterize, or at least I'll characterize it as a lot of relatively young guys that are that are obviously not where Earl Thomas ever was in his career, but maybe and even at this point, probably aren't as good as Earl Thomas, but maybe they are as sending players and maybe can reach a level

of where Earl is right now, not necessarily where he was when he was the best safety or among the two or three best safeties in the league, but at least get to the point where they are above average safeties. Do you think that the Cowboys should consider that If you agree with that premise and consider the fact that maybe you just stick with your young guys and let them continue to develop by getting more snaps rather than bringing in a guy like Earl Thomas. Let's start with you, Dave.

That's and you know, I hate to sound like I'm riding the fence. Like at the end of the day, if the deal was right, if the money was right, and Earl said the right stuff, I would probably be fine with them signing him. Because that's I don't feel great about this situation. You know, it's hard to judge who's starting and who's gonna start, and they don't even want us to talk about it anyway. But the early returns on haha, Clinton Dix don't look amazing. You know,

he's not lighting camp on fire. And Darian Thompson, I think at this point, you know, they love him going back to the last coaching staff, but we haven't seen that play out on the field. Same thing with with Donovan Wilson. He's the fan favorite. We haven't seen a play out on the field. So I don't feel great about what they have and that's what convinced. That's what

keeps me from just saying absolutely not to Earl. So I don't have a great answer, But if they go into the season with this group, I think it's fair to call it the weakest position group on the roster, all right, Nick, I think tight end could challenge that. But but I think that the problem though on safety is if it's not safety or tight end, maybe it's cornerback.

So you got your whole secondary back there that you know who's going to be leaning on who I mean, cornerbacks are unproven and then and the safety as well, so you know, getting a guy in there like that could kind of shore up your entire secondary. It'd be one thing if the corners were pretty solid, you don't worried about them, just safety, but the whole I mean, I don't know. I might trust the safety is more

than I trust the corners. So that that's I think that right there is something that needs to be addressed. Amber to me, it's frustrating knowing that we've been talking about the safety position for over three years and the fact that this is where we still stand, and that they have not necessarily addressed the position and over these period this amount of years. I mean, you're in this spot because you wanted to be in this spot. I mean, this is all on you. And if you're okay with that,

then fine, let it be. I guess I just the thing is when you hear Jerry Jones always say I can sign this guy if I want to. Basically, you know, I get deals done and they have the ability to do that, and I know that many many things going to play when that's just not as simple as that. You know, there are things, money, years, other things that you need to look at when giving someone a contract.

But the fact that it's been this long and we're still sitting here one I'm talking about the safety position to talking about Errol Thomas. It's just really frustrating and right now as I'm taking it, and I hate when I hear Mike McCarthy talking about, oh yeah, we love the flexibility about corners and safeties and they're interchangeable. I hate that mentality. Yes, it sounds great, but at the end of the day, when you have that kind of flexibility,

you're not gonna get a great guy. You're not gonna get someone that's gonna be great at one specific decision when they have to be moving around. So, um, I forgot what your question was, but that's just how I feel about it at the moment, Nick, did you have something? I was waving at Mickey Oh walking by, I waved at him, Now I did. I did go like that when when she said we've been talking about safety for three years, you might be talking about for three years.

We've been talking about it for a long time, ever since that guy was playing. I mean, it's just never been a position that's really been addressed. And you know, they they've always kind of gotten away with your or trying to get away with it, and I think it at some point they need to do it. And again I agree with Dave. This is I don't think it's an elite player anymore. But uh, like I said before, I mean his last game was the Pro Bowl, So his one year in Baltimore wasn't that bad. Not everybody

in Baltimore made the Pro Bowl that year. But you know, it's it's it is a tricky one. It's it's really a dilemma the Cowboys have to figure out here real quick before we go to our first break. I do want to go around the room and I want you guys to tell me, do you think that this will actually happen? Based upon everything you know right now and what you know of the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, do you think this happens a star with you, Amber, I don't.

This is so hard. I don't. Honestly, I don't think so. I don't think so. And it's one of those things I know it happens quite a few with different guys where you got Jerry one in one thing, and then a group of other people are not necessarily wanting the same thing, and it's just that constant battle there of what they like. Do they meet in the middle, But then what's the middle? Because it's one or the other. So as of right now, I would say it doesn't

happen all right, Nick, Yeah, I do. I'm a believer there's smoke somewhere, there's a fire. I believe that there's been some smoke for a long time. And I think that this is a position of need. And I think that he's made it clear he wants to come here. Seattle played sixteen games that year. I don't think he ran to every locker room. I think he wants to be here, And you know then and here now is better than it was when he was chasing Jason Garrett in the locker room. You know, this is I think,

a better team. So yeah, I do think it'll happen, Dave. I don't want to make it sound too dramatic, but I think whatever happens, I think it'll it'll say something about, you know, who has the final say? Because if if everybody was in lock step and totally felt the same way, then the wheels would already be moving on this. You know, he's he's been free since Sunday afternoon and it's Wednesday

and nothing has really happened. I mean, if everybody in the organization wanted him here, he'd be here by now, or at the very least, you know, they'd be talking to him or whatever. And is that still up for debate, David? Is what was that question? Is that question ever in the debate of who's got the final say? Is that? Is that something that we need to figure out? I thought we've known for thirty years. No, I guess not

that who has the final say? But basically, what I'm trying to say is, if if Earl winds up here, it's because Jerry Jones said no, I want this guy, and when I say I'm not, when I when I say I'm not trying to make it sound dramatic, I don't think that means him and Mike McCarthy are having a you know, knockdown, drag out fight about it. But the sense that I get is, you know, Mike and Will are more along the lines of, like, am maybe we don't need to be messing with this right now?

And then you know, Jerry comes along and there was all of this momentum building yesterday that said the Cowboys aren't interested, and Jerry went on one oh five through the fan and kind of blew that whole thing up, which just goes to show that, you know, I think Jerry was sending a very deliberate reminder that hey, I'd still have the final say here in case anybody forgot. So. I don't think it's going to happen, But if it does happen, I think it's because the owner and general

manager at it too. I will say this, I think we're reading and I shouldn't say we, Dave. I think you're reading this a little bit differently than I'm reading it. I look at it as in the same way it took a long time for the Cowboys. Cowboys to come around on a deal with Everson Griffin. Like Everson Griffin has been out there for a while, it took a while before they got to the point where they were ready to make a deal. And I think part of that was because they wanted a deal. And I think

that's the way the Cowboys operate. I don't think the Cowboys are in the business of saying, hey, we want Earl Thomas so badly that we're willing to give him a two or three four year deal. I think they're probably looking at Earl Thomas and thinking, hey, if nobody else out there wants him and he wants to come here for a one year deal, that's something that's you know, fair but not great, then maybe we're still in the business. And I think that's how they're looking at it. So

I think that's why Jerry was noncommittal. I think it's about timing. I think they're gonna wait and see what happens, and if there's another team out there that once his service is so bad that they're willing to give him a three or four year deal, I think the Cowboys are out if they can let it get to the point where Earl sees, hey, I don't have a lot of options. I want to go to Dallas. I'll do

it on a one year deal. I'll try to go to Robert Quinn route and try to play my butt off this year on that one year deal and see if I can leverage that into another deal after that, a longer term deal after that. Then that's the way I go. And then both parties meet because both people are motivated or both parties are motivated to do a deal.

I think ultimately that's how it gets done. So to me, it's really about timing, and I think that ultimately will decide whether Earl Thomas as a Dallas cowboy or not. I completely agree with you. I guess my only my caveat there would be you get kicked off one team for conduct detrimental three months after you're involved in a domestic dispute. I just assume that that kills whatever leverage Earl Thomas had. And maybe that's not true. That's my assumption.

So you're right, you know what I mean? Could there be a suspension coming too because of all this? No, no, no, let's be clear. When you say a domestic dispute. Earl was not arrested or charged with anything. It was actually his wife that ended up in trouble. He was doing some I know, I'm saying. I didn't want anybody to get the wrong impression that that Earl was arrested on domestic in a domestic dispute, or that he was involved in a domestic violence type situation. That wasn't the situation.

He was doing some stuff he probably morally shouldn't be doing, according to reports, but it was more his wife that was the He was not was not arrested or charged, but he was involved in a situation. And you can go read and read about it if you haven't. Yeh. Hey, I say this all the time. I know we got to go to break, but I say this all the time. I don't care if the guy's a bad guy or not, if he can play in the NFL, Like if he's allowed to play, but like like she just said, it's

not going to be suspended. If he's allowed to walk the streets based off of our you know, judicial system, then I don't care about it. Because I'll say this. The fans and you guys have heard me say this. The fans don't care if Brandon Carr spends all of his time at the community center. They don't care. Can you cover? Can you not? Can you stop Odell from you know, turning you into a highlight? Can you play?

So if they don't care about the good guys, they just want a guy who can play, then why should we care about this? Can he play? That's the question. If he can play, I'd bring him here. Yeah, But it sounds more and more like this is more of a t O issue than an eight than Antonio Brown issue, Like this is more of an issue of his personality and him classic with people, and that tends to be

more of the problem. And I think that's really, to be quite honest, with a bigger issue that fans would care about because that's about the locker room, right, Okay, well, I mean this locker room. These leaders in the locker room have led them to eight wins in the last few years. I mean, how good are the leaders? I mean, just because you bark loud doesn't mean you can bite. So, you know, maybe they do need somebody to shake it up a little bit. All right, with that, we'll take

our first break. We'll come back let's get into some camp battles. We're gonna talk about some players and what they've been doing during training camp and some positions where there may be some jobs on the line. We'll talk about that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot com Radio. We're back in the tasty treat. That's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Baba cream Soda.

Is he a Newcombonut's music to my ears? Okay, doctor time pass music to my ears and mouth? New Doctor Pepper and cream Soda. What delas just do? Bay? Hey, I want to use what the pros use? How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now, you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten

bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Clack skincare favorites plus a full size intense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word team JB. That's get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys. The Jack Black Star ten bucks free shipping since eighteen sixty five. Stetson Hats are American maid with pride right here in Texas, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride too, You can

by purchasing your own stetson. You can look just like how the flag guys do on field at every home game. Stetson Hats the official crown of all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get yours today at Shop dot Dallas Cowboys dot com or at Stetson dot com. It's funny as we travel places, often we find the places we want to travel aren't really places at all. They're people, their grandparents, moms, old friends, and new nephews.

That's why at American Airlines we've been using enhanced cleaning measures so you can feel confident every step until you get to them. So, as always, our people can't wait to take you to yours American Airlines. You are why we fly back to the break. Get the ultimate fan experience For the ultimate Cowboys fan, join Dallas Cowboys United and get an exclusive DCU fan pack and member benefits. Membership started only twenty dollars visit Dallas Cowboys dot com

Slash United to join today. Welcome back to the second segment of the Break. We are live from the virtual s WBC Mortis Studios. Nick's at the Star. Actually on this off day for the team, they'll resume practices tomorrow on Thursday and Friday of this week. Saturday, there is no practice, and then Sunday we have our specials what's called Cowboys Night. It'll be an opportunity for you guys to see a little bit of this team. We will

be streaming it live on all of our channels. It'll be locally here on our CBS affiliate TXA twenty one, and so you'll just have an opportunity to check out the team. Michael Overn, Nate Newton, Bill Jones will be hosting it. Our guys, Nick Dave Rob maybe some other guys.

I'm not sure who all is going to be from our team and going to be a part of that, but we'll have a lot of different a lot of different analysis coming from different folks throughout that practice, just giving you guys a good look at this team and some analysis around what has been happening in training camp and heading into the season, so make sure you check that out. Let's talk a little bit though about training

camp battles. I remember at the beginning of training camp Mike McCarthy mentioned that there were He had the typical coach speak, there's battles at every position. Every position is about competition, and certainly that is the case as the way the coaches look at it. But realistically there are only a few spots, and certainly starting spots, where where you could make an argument that the position is kind

of up for grabs heading into camp. What I did was identified I identified five different positions that I want to talk to you guys about where I think there's at least some competition, not necessarily for starting roles in all of them, but certainly from the standpoint of roles people that will play significant amount of time, or people that will have unique backup spots that are about roster spots. Let's start first with the left guard position, Connor Williams,

Connor McGovern. Let's first start talking to me about what you've seen from both of those guys here throughout the first couple of weeks of camp. Let's start first with you, Dave. I've seen Connor Williams out there doing stuff on a regular basis. Ironically, he took yesterday off. I think it was more of a maintenance day than anything. But for a guy that's nine months removed from a tour and acl, I mean, he jumped right in. He wasn't on the pup.

He's getting reps from the very beginning, and Connor McGovern is definitely mixed in. But I am under the impression that that job is Connor Williams. And maybe that's subject to change, but that's just how I feel so far. I think I think he's looked good. Nick, you agreed everything Dave said. He's doesn't look like a competition to me. And you know, we don't get a chance to really we don't get a chance to talk to players at

all or receive them. We got the chance to talk to Connor the other day, Connor Williams, and you know, he just seems I don't know, it seems like he's ready to take this year on differently, third year now, this is this is a big season for him, and I think this is not really much of a competition. Amber. I agree, and I mean not to say Connor mcgoverny. I think he's been doing a good job so far, but at the same time, what I've seen from him, you can tell he still needs growth. He's still I mean,

remember he barely had a season last year. He was out with the injury, the pectorial injury, and that really hurt him in his development. So this year, I feel like he's backing his rookie year, doing the things that you usually see a rookie doing the first year. And he's doing a good job so far, but just not at the level to be right there competing with the other Connor Williams right now, actually, Aber, I want you to talk a little bit about Connor Williams and his trajectory.

I know, for fans out there that don't know, we actually have a documentary, a Deep Blue documentary we're gonna be putting out in about a week and a half from now. That Amber that you put together. You did the whole thing really really well done, really great storytelling, but in the you kind of dive into his trajectory, his story, and particularly one of the things that struck me was kind of how he had to manage those injuries earlier in his career and how you know, it's

it's kind of a part of his bigger story. So talk a little bit about Connor's story and and just kind of the whole trajectory of Connor Williams to the point that he is now well. I think that Connor Williams, he's a guy that's gonna fight, He's gonna fight back, He's gonna try to do his best to do what he needs to do in order to succeed. He was a guy that growing up got bullied a ton, and we know that usually when that happens, if you are someone that's able to overcome that in your life, you

tend to turn out really good. You know, you tend to overcome all those issues. And right above and Connor, he's just a guy that honestly, even when we don't see him at games or whatever and you may think, oh, he was injured, he's still gonna be in the in the gym, working out, doing the reps, doing the things that he needs to do, you know, in order to

accomplish what is being asked from him. I think another thing that he was able to do was build a really good relationship with Travis Frederick during his time that he was still here, and he was able to not only get the you know, physical aspect of it and the strength that he needed, but also the knowledge, which is super important when you know a guy like that on the line. You need to have that knowledge, the communication,

learn and know what your role is. And I think that he's been studying, he's been working hard, and he's gonna be good. He's gonna do a good job. Will be running that that documentary on Sunday, September sixth, so makes you guys check that out. We'll run across all of our channels. It's really really good story, well done by Amber um Let. Let's watch another position. Let's talk about three technique. Um Obviously that this is has kind of gotten wide open now with Gerald McCoy going down

and then being released. But you got Tyrone Crawford who's been a mainstay, and I think primarily he's gonna be the guy that you would expect on opening day, will be the guy that will be the starter. But let's talk about the young guys, Neville Gallimore and and Tristan Hill. Talk to me about what you guys have seen from those two players particularly and how they've performed relative to one another. Let's start with you Dave. Yeah. I think I said when Gerald went down that they needed one

of those two guys to step up. And to this point, it looks like it's gonna be Tristan hill Um. And you know, we do this every year. I don't I don't know if he's gonna be in Dominican Sue. I'm not saying it's he's gonna be an all pro, but he's getting reps. He's getting reps against the good players. He's consistently having good reps. You see him pushing the

pocket and just think things. He looks active, um And I can't to this point say the same thing about Neville, and that's it's it's it's something that happens every year. I mean, he's a top one hundred draft pick. You have high hopes for him, but that is a position where we have often seen growing pains and Gallimore not to say he looks terrible. Um. He actually he had a he had a fumble that he knocked the ball

out of Benda Nucci's hand the other day. But you just haven't seen that consistent disruption and and for that matter, you haven't seen him get as many opportunities to go against the studs um So, I you know, for me, it's it's Tyrone Crawford and Tristan Hill fighting for the most playing time at that position right now. Nick, you know, I think that there's a wild card that could that could kind of create a domino effect there, and that's

Justin Hamilton. He's he's six two, three hundred and fifteen pounds. He's not as big as Don Tari Poe, but he's definitely bigger than anybody else on the team. He could be a one technique and what that does is that might move Antoine Woods to a spot where they need to use him in the three. So it'll be interesting

to see how all that shakes out. But I know Justin Hamilton is starting to create a little bit of buzz for what they like there in the middle, and then we'll just figure out, you know, how it all goes. I don't think they're gonna cut ties with Tristin Hill or Neville Gallimore for that matter, So that might be a position that they kind of go long, just trying to figure out where everyone goes. And maybe Tyrone doesn't

play as much tackle as we think. If some of these guys move up, he can be a backup defensive end amber. I think Gallimore has been doing a good job. But to me, the one that has been standing out is Tristan Hill. Compared to last year and what we saw from him, I feel that his movements and I wrote this the other day, he's moving with purpose now, as opposed to last year where he just looked lost.

He was will try his hardest, but sometimes it just it wasn't It wasn't working how you wanted it to work. But this year he's moving with a purpose. He's just pushing. He brings the energy to practice, and that's something that's

super important. One of the things that I noticed from a player, For example, Jalen Smith a couple of years ago, when he started out, he was just all over the field, and now you see that transition when a player learns where he's supposed to go and just becomes more confident. I mean that when it translating into the field, it's it's impressive to see the growth there. Yeah, I think we were all somewhat disappointed in what we saw from

Justin Hill last season. Has what you've seen this season changed your opinions of maybe where he is or or his trajectory at this point based upon what you've seen so far in training camp. I'll start this time with Nick. Yeah, I think so. And you know, he's getting some high parase from people that matter, Jerry Jones, for one, who

is obviously listening to other people talk as well. You know, he doesn't probably see every minute of the practices and all the behind the scenes stuff with Jim tom Sula, his d line coach, was was really raving about him the other day and how he's always got his you know, he's always got his head in his in this you know, playbook ready, you know, looking trying to get better, asking questions a lot. So you know, he's doing everything right. He's got an opportunity now with McCoy gone, so yeah,

it's kind of lining up better for him. And maturity was always something that people were referencing when they talked about him, and you know it's early, but but it does look like he's taken a better step in the right direction. Amber. I think so he right now. I mean, the fact that he's being talked about is huge. He's making himself not be forgotten. So I think that he'll stay here and he's on the right path right now, Dave, I sort of alluded to it already. I just I'm trying.

I'm in twenty twenty. I'm trying to just take one step at a time approach because at the same position last year, you know, Malie Collins was having the best camp ever. And I think I spent three years expecting Malie Collins to make his first Pro Bowl. I felt confident about it every summer, and it came back to bite me every fall. So I feel good about where he's at. He looks really good right now. But you know, I'm not ready to say that he's just gonna take

the league by storm. I guess, but we'll see. All right, let's move on to another position. Actually, let's go and take our final break. When we come back, I want to talk about the wide receiver position. Obviously we've been talking a lot about those top three wide receivers, but this Cowboys team will have two, three, maybe four more that will make the roster. Let's talk about some of those guys. We'll do that when we come right back.

This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio since eighteen sixty five. Stetson hats are American maid with pride, right here in Texas and Stetson is proud to be on the field with Americas team. Want to show your Texas and Team pride two you can by purchasing your own Stetson. You can look just like how the flag guys do on field at every home game. Stetson hats the official crown of all self respecting Cowboys and your favorite football team. Get yours today at Shop Dallas Cowboys dot com or

at Stetson dot com. I'm Jay Novachek, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day, I was the guy who always got the tough yards and that's why I run with John Deer today. In fact, I have a John Dear three zero twenty five E tractor that can handle any yardwork I need to do, even the tough yards way out back. So if you have one acre or a thousand, John Deer has the equipment that's just right for you. Visit a John Deer dealer today and run with us. We are the official tractor

provider of your Dallas Cowboys. Want to use what the pros use? How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right Now you can Get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of cowboys locker room favorites for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Clack skincare favorites, plus a full size and tense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word

team JB. That's Get Jack Black dot com Slash Cowboys. The Jack Black Starter ten bucks free shipping. We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Baba cream Soda. Is he a Newcombonut's music to My Ears? Okay, Doctor Bap time pass Music to My Ears? And mouse new Doctor Pepper and Cream Soda. Delas just

do bay. Back to the break Welcome back. It is the final segment of the Break Life Virtual SWBC Mortgage Studio. We're talking camp battles and right now we're gonna talk about the wide receiver position. We've talked so much about the top three guys, but I want to talk about those guys that are that are beyond those guys. It looks like the Cowboys. We'll have to make some decisions on probably two, three, Nick, you were talking them break maybe four. I don't know. We don't know how this

coach is gonna heard. No, we were talking, we were discussing that. Yeah, I was saying four, but again not saying that they will. But we just don't know at this point. The way I look at it is, this is a whole new coaching staff and they're gonna make decisions, probably very different than what we've seen in the past because they are different coaching staff. But all that being said, let's talk about some of these guys that are lowered down the depth chart and maybe how they how you

prioritize them. Guys like Cedric Wilson, Devin Smith, Noah Brown, Vintel Bryant, John Vay Johnson, and then Tevin Jones and Aaron Parker give me in priority order. Talk to me about maybe the top two or three guys in that list that you think have the best shot of making this team in the four, five, and six position. If that's what the Cowboys decide to do. Let's start with you. Dave. It's stressful, man, because I mean it's easy for receivers

to have good camps. I get that, but like they're all having pretty good camps for the most part, and the way I prioritize it, there's so many different types. I mean, Cedric Wilson is Dak's favorite non starting receiver in my opinion, just based on the work that they do and the way they talk about each other. So you got your quarterbacks favorite, does a little bit of everything,

can return punts. Devin Smith is probably your best speed deep threat guy and has shown that at this camp once again, probably the least special team's value, but again maybe the biggest receiver value. Then you got Noah Brown and Ventel Bryant might as well be the same guy in my opinion. Bigger bodies, they can do downfield stuff, They're useful in the blocking game. They both have already proven on previous rosters that they have special team's value.

And then I feel like I'm forgetting somebody John bad Johnson, Yeah you got yeah, thank you, agi John Vay and I would put John Vay last in that group. M Parker h yeah, Aaron Parker, he probably deserves a mention. And he just he looks different out there. He's a big bodied guy too, M. So he's intriguing that's probably the order I would put it. But for me, it's basically Cedric and Noah and Brian all have special team's value.

Devin Smith doesn't. And that's sort of where it gets complicated for me, is figuring out what's more valuable amber It's it's really tough because this guys have been so like right there with each other. But the one that I would say that has stood out the most to me in recent practices has been Cedric Wilson. He's a guy that it's just one step further than the rest of the He's taking the lead right now for me.

But as far as the rest of the guys, I mean, just like Dave said, these guys are just so close to each other, and it's just comes I think it will come down to the coaching staff and what they prefer in those wide receivers. What kind of trades and quality are they looking for in guys that have to take down like the fourth, fifth, sixth position And I forgot what you call it, but wide receiver group, nick Um,

you guys have kind of touched on them all. I mean I don't see I don't see them really taken more than five. They may take six, but I would just take five and it would just be Cedric Wilson and vinceel Briant. That would be my five. This is a This is a you know, top three receivers are probably the best trio in the NFL, so I don't need my guys to be great receivers. Cedric Wilson I think can be special teams punt returner, a backup punt returner,

and then also like a fourth receiver. He looks pretty smooth and his routh ben Tell Brian I thinks your best special teams guy. There's nobody else that I would say you've got to have him on the roster. You know, oh my god, if we lost Noah Brown, you know what, it would be no different than the last two years when he really didn't play, John Vay Johnson, those guys. I mean, the one player y'all didn't mention that I think it keeps standing out is Tevin Jones. He looks

pretty good to me. He's got a really big body and he's got some speed that you're not expecting for his size. So you know, he looks pretty good. But they're gonna have to go along in other positions. This to me, wouldn't be one of them. I would go with five and call it today. I think I'm sorry, I just I want to throw this out there. I know it was it was Randall Cobb last year and

not Ceedee Lamb. But all three of the big three spent time hurt last year, all three of them, and for a couple of games it was two, and it would sure be nice to have a guy like Devin Smith. And laughably, they were in that exact situation last year and the coaching staff didn't activate him for the Jets game. So Devin Smith stood on the sideline while nobody was healthy. But that doesn't mean this coaching staff has to do that.

So I tend to agree. I think you can get away with going short at running back and tight end and a few other spots. Give me six receivers. I'll keep Cedric Devon and one of the big bodied guys. I don't care who. Yeah. I think the one thing we'll have to be aware of it and that we'll see how it all plays out once they make the cuts is McCarty has said multiple times in his press conferences since training campus began that and this is a

mantra he has about the whole team. Guys need to be able to do multiple things and doesn't want guys that are just like one thing, right, And so I think that especially when we start talking about depth players, particularly at the wide receiver position, I think it's going to revolve a lot around what they can provide for the special teams. And the problem with that for us as people that are analyzing the team is that we aren't really seeing a lot with regards to special teams.

You know, obviously there's no live action for us to be able to get a real feel for how we think guys play on special teams. The coaches are certainly being able to see based upon the drills how many what guys are actually doing the things that they need them to be able to do from a from a drilling type standpoint, so they'll be making that decision. But ultimately I want to see how much this factors in,

and especially when we start talking about numbers. You know, when you start talking about a sixth or possibly a seventh wide receiver, it's gonna be all about the fact, in my opinion, what does that guy bring from to you for from a special team standpoint, relative to that extra linebacker or you know, that extra defensive back, whatever

position it might be. I think once you get to that part of the of the of the depth chart and that part of the roster, I think it's going to be all about what those guys are providing for special teams. I think there's gonna be an added emphasis on special teams this year that maybe we haven't seen during the Jason Garrett era. Let's go ahead and flip over to the tight end position real quick before we

end the show. So far, we've seen all the tight ends get involved Blake Bill Dalton Schultz, and they've been kind of the two guys that you think are are kind of battling there behind Blake Jarwin. Talk to me about what you've seen from those two guys particularly and where you think they kind of rate right rank right now, let's start with you, and Well, the only guy that I'm all up for is Blake Jarwin. I think he's been doing a really really good job in every aspect

of the game. He can blog, he can catch the ball, he can get separated, find an open space, and even when he's not necessarily the target, I think he has a really good connection with Dak Prescott, but after him, honestly, I don't know. I don't know who else. No one else catches my attention. I think that Dalton Schultz has been doing a better job than he was last year. I've seen some improvement there, but that doesn't excite me very much. So after Blake Jarwin, honestly, I don't feel

great about the position. Nicky, Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say right now. I have seen Schultz make a couple more catches in the last few days. I think Blake Bell's gonna probably be you're You're, He's gonna be on the field a lot more than people think, just

because I think he will be your best blocker. Jarwin's been okay, you know at times, But I think that that position is just going to be a product of how teams are playing the defense and they have to worry about the other spots, and I think that the tight end will probably be pretty good. It'll be okay just because you know, they're gonna get good mismatches and they're gonna probably take advantage of it at times. But I don't see him really standing out a lot. But

I don't see him hurting them that much. Either Dave, I think we gotta make a we gotta make a bet, like we gotta do a me Casina Dinner bet or something, because y'all are hating on these tight ends and I'm I'm over here feeling I'm giddy with anticipation about these tight ends because I think Blake Jarwin's gonna be a stud. And yeah, a lot of that is going to be

a product of his environment. There's Pro bowlers at every other skill position, but he is an athletic dude, and he can get downfield in a hurry, and Dak Prescott loves to look for him, Like Dak has been throwing down the seams more than I can ever remember. Now that he's got more athletic options at tight end, I think Jarwin's gonna have an awesome year. And I'll say of the entire roster, I'm not saying he's gonna make the Pro Bowl. I'm not saying he's gonna be great.

But where my expectations were for Dalton Schultz three weeks ago as opposed to what I've seen, probably the biggest jump on the entire team. He's getting a lot of reps with with good players. They're using him downfield. He had an awesome contested catch over Jalen Smith the other day. He's he's been very impressive and way more active in the passing game than I can ever remember, to the point where, you know, I said in the offseason, like Dalton Schultz might not you know, be on this team,

and now I'd certainly think he's gonna make the team. Um, I've been I've been impressed by what they've been able to do with him. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I think those guys will be fine catching the ball. I think that they're gonna get open. I just wonder when it's third and two, when they put two tight ends or three tight ends, can any of them block? Can any of them hold their block? Are they all gonna be mismatches?

And that's that's the problem that I have, is that Jarwin blocked, Jarwin can get in the way, which is all I need from him. Yeah, right, I mean, and you know, I think the last seven eight years of Jason Witten's career he was getting in the way. You know, he probably was getting in the way his whole career. He just knew how to how to do it. So I mean, he's not pancaking anybody. Uh, That's my only concern is, Yeah, I think they can catch the ball

down the field. I just wonder about thirteen personnel. I don't like that at all because I don't think they've got good matchups there. I hope, Yeah, My hope is that thirteen personnel went to New York with Yeah. I think I hope thirteen personnel went to New York um. And I hope I hope that that's not what we see a lot here. I mean, I know that they obviously have something. I'm just we don't know how they're gonna use in games. I just hopeful that that will

not be something we see on a regular basis. And I will say this, I actually feel the first time in this show agree with Dave. Like and I'm talking about this episode. I've been really excited about what I've seen from the tight Ends. Now that doesn't mean I don't ever agree with you, Dave, just in this episode. First time I've agree with you in this episode. And I really I've been very excited about what I saw from the tight Ends, particularly Dalton Schultz. And that is

all about Nick. You and I talked about solid time. It's all about your expectations team, right, My expectations going into this exactly my expectations coming into this camp where that Dalton Show was that Dalton Schultz was not going to make this team. That was my expectation. He has done more than enough at this point for me to think that the Cowboys certainly will give him a look and he has a shot at making this team. Now you don't again, we don't know how they're gonna cut this.

We don't know if they're gonna keep two or three tight ends. My assumptions is gonna be three, and if it's gonna be three, I think he makes his team. But I think he has been much better than I

expected him to be. I love what I'm seeing from Jarlin right now, particularly down the field, and quite frankly, as far as the blocking is concerned, I don't expect we're gonna see a lot of that and what those guys can do until we get into the season, because training camp is just not the environment where you typically see a lot of a lot of great blocking that you can evaluate. From the Titans. You can see a little bit, not as much as you'll obviously see during

the season. I think that was the whole reason that blake Bill was brought here. So that's why I don't think blake Bill may be showing up as much for us right now when we're looking at passes down the field. But I do think I agree with you Nick from that standpoint. I think he's going to get opportunities to block, and I think he's gonna be a very good addition to this team from that standpoint. What we said about Sorry, it goes back to what we said about Vintel Brian.

He might not he might be the eleventh best receiver catching the ball, but he'll make the team if he can be the best receiver that can play special teams. And that's the thing about Schultz. Schultz wasn't that great on special teams last year. He had his issues there. It comes down to strength, it comes down to blocking. So catching a pass over Jalen Smith, that's great, but that's probably not what they're going to ask him to do.

So his value of taking him to the game is the blocking, it's the special teams, being the third tight end. Those are things that are hard to see right now. Yeah, he's doing some good things on offense, better than we've seen, But I still think his core job functions are going to be blocking on special teams and also blocking, you know, at the line of scrimmage. I just wanted to throw out I don't I don't think it would be fair to do a whole ten minutes on the tight ends

and not at least mentioned Cole Hiccottini as well. Um, I think he's looked good. He's gotten a lot of opportunities. He's I mean, he's another more athletic tight end. He's still not your big traditional blocking guy, but I do I mean, his athleticism is really impressive. So I don't know if he makes the team, but I think he's having a good camp. I thought he would. He would challenge Dalton Schultz for a roster spot, and Dalton Schultz has answered the bell and from what we've seen, so

but I thought Hiccotini would be a guy. And he's done. Like you said, he's done a good job. All right, we appreciate you guys joining us. That's a rap. We'll be back next week. Next Wednesday eleven am is our normal time tilted for Nick Eatman, Dave helm At amber Garcia. I'm Derek Eagelson. This has been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.