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It's time for the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com with Mbar Garcia, Brian brought us, Patrick Walker and Derek Eagleton.
It is Wednesday, February seventh, twenty twenty four, Season nine, episode number one eleven. Welcome to the Laces Edition All the Break. We're live from s WVC Borgage Studios at the start. Brian's at the super Bowl today, but we got the rest of the crew here. We're gonna talk about.
Some coordinators today.
It's a lot of stuff moving there, not only with the Cowboys, but also in the division. Some Cowboy names, some players, I mean, some people who have been coordinated for the Cowboys now moving to other places. We'll talk about how that affects the Cowboys and uh and then in a later part of the show, we will get into our conversation on Dak Prescott. I've been promising for two weeks and.
We're going to do that.
So we never got the chance So my guess is we're going to get there today. If we don't, then we'll push it to next week. That's the beauty of this thing is it keeps going week after week, and we appreciate you guys being a part of it. We may also get some calls in the final segment, so if you do, you might want to get queued up. Number eight eight eight eight five seven two two nine seven.
Is that right?
Eight five five, Chris producer number five eight five five two nine seven.
There we go.
Eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. I've been saying that on the air a lot lately, so I got a little confused.
Eight eight eight eight.
Five five to two nine seven is the number. You can call us and you can get queued up, and in the final segment, maybe we'll throw you in in the mix and you can ask our panel some questions. Let's start first with defensive coordinator in Dallas, Dan Quinn. He's off he has been hired by the Washington commanders.
First, just kind of.
Give me your general thoughts when you heard that he was taking the job, that they offered the job, he was taking the job, and he was moving on over.
Your first thoughts.
I mean, I think that in looking at it as soon as it happened, and I wrote it on a piece for the dot com, is that there was going to be potentially massive fallout from that because you have a lot of relationships on that side of the ball between dan Quinn and his assistant coaching staff, Joe Witt being one of them, Al Harris being another one of those guys. So you then had to wonder, with the
departure of dan Quinn, who else might depart. And you know, the Cowboys had interest in interviewing Joe Witt.
For the defensive court in the position.
Some of the players like Trevon Diggs had interest in the team interviewing Al Harris for the position. I'm told they hadn't though defensive line coach Aden Dirdey, who's also been getting interest from around the league, most recently the
Seattle Seahawks for their DC position. So you just had to wonder, what was that overhaul going to look like in the post dan quinn eraror And now that we know Joe Whitt is going to go join him, so take him out of the running for this, And now it seems more more possible than ever, that this is going to be an outside higher, so it likely being
an outside of higher. Now that defensive coaching staff beneath the DC probably looking at a massive, massive shakeup, and it provides some sense of concern with me in the aspect of you're Mike McCarthy. You're going into what can be just described as a proved season and now you're going to have this massive overhaul on defensive side of
the ball. You're not going to have a lot of time for your new coordinator to come in, put their installs in, get their players in from free agency in the draft that they convinced the Cowboys to sign, and re sign some of these guys that are in the building, get your installs done, and then get these guys operating at fever pitch as quickly as possible.
Can I challenge you real quick? I don't know that. I feel like there will be a even if there's.
A massive overhaul of the staff on the defensive side of ball, I don't think they're going to come in here with the expectation that they're going to change out the players. I think there may be one too, maybe three positions that that will be different. I think by and large, this defense is his defense because they got a ton of talent. I don't think this is going to be a project where they get to come in here and say, Okay, I want this guy, want this guy, want this guy, go get.
Them for me.
I see what you're saying. And here's where I would counter that. Contractually, some of these guys are coming up for free agency, for example, and you have rotational guys like Nevill Galimore. He's up for a free agency. He was an impact rotational guy. But if a new defensive courtier comes in, does he view Neville Galamore as Dan Quinn view Neville Galamore?
So just one example there.
So, yeah, when we talk about rotational, is that what you're saying, you're talking more rotational guys, not starters necessarily.
Not necessarily, but and I agree with that, right, But then you also have to look at the George Lewis. People like Georgan Lewis, for example, Jordan Lewis is an impact starter, rotational When Deron Bland and the treva Ir Diggs and Gilmore were to be on the field, but with one of those guys deleted, he Jordan Lewis became a starter again.
Well they got they got roster spots at this point because he got two cornerbacks that you just mentioned there that are free agents, So yeah, you got another one.
Yeah, you would love to believe Gilmore is gonna come back, but again we don't know. Number one, we don't know who the DC is going to be, so we don't know their view on a guy like Gilmore. So in that capacity, you have to wonder how quickly and what guys or is that defensive coordinator going to want to retain versus say, you know what, I love what Gilmore did for you last year, but I have a better idea.
Get this guy in free agency and or get this particular player on the draft, and then those new guys have to come in jail quickly over the course of the OTA's mini camp, training camp, preseason, and you kind of have to hit the ground running as a defensive coordinator under a head coach who at that moment is not under contract beyond next year. So it's all got to happen quickly. Mike Zimmer being one of the front runner candidates. Now we got news that Rex Ryan has
been interviewed for the position. Ron Rivera was interviewed on Monday for the position. As far as outside candidates, eight and Dirty spoke about him. He was interviewed on Monday as the only internal candidate. So that's what they're up against. And I have my leanings and we'll talk about that in the moment.
Second, And what were your thoughts when you heard that Quaens leaving?
I mean, not very happy. I think a lot of the people that fans that were online and given the way that the game ended against Green Bay and the way that he was coaching the defense, I get a lot of people the frustration and how mad they wear and all of that, but you can't forget what he did for the defense, like he did so much for
this Cowboys defense. Excuse me, I started what about ten years ago, and I've never seen this type of diffense, Like I've never seen the Cowboys defense be what it was during dan Quinn's small era and time here with
the Cowboys. So he's done so much overall, and I think he's such a player's guy, like the way that he which I think is very very valuable when you have someone that can relate and be so good with everybody, like everyone wants to be on his side, type of coach, and initially we just all assumed he was gonna be gone. Then it was kind of slowing down and you're like, okay, well maybe that means he's gonna stay all right, and then all of a sudden, kidding, going to Washington, out
of all places, Washington. Good luck to him though, but it except yeah, no, but and I know we're gonna get into the coaching, the coaches options and all of that, but it's just it's a tough change because to me, right now, I know we want something to happen immediately. We want to see immediate success, immediate quote unquote because it's been what thirty years whatever, But right now when you make those changes, what concerns me is, Okay, how
quickly if you're bringing someone from the outside. And I know it happened with Dan Quinn. He was pretty impactful. I made a quick impact here with the Cowboys, But it is that concern. It was like, Okay, how long does it take for a new person to kind of develop what needs to be developed? For example, Mike McCarthy him taking over the play call, and we saw some changes, but that took what six games or so for things to start claking and so again not a full season
of him being the full play color. So it's just that concern of like, Okay, how long is this new change gonna take play? Or you know what I mean?
Well, let me challenge you a little bit on that too.
When you say since the moment he got here, he's had a lot of success, It's been more success than you saw from any defense that was here in the ten years you've been here. That also coincides with a player that showed up that's a generational player in Michael Parsons. How much do you think that that because, by the way, I agree with you.
I actually I tweeted. I tweeted, but I tweeted about.
Mike Nolan and I was like, let's not forget what his defense was in one year.
It went from what Mike Nolan did in twenty twenty to.
What he was what Dan was able to do in twenty twenty one and beyond, like there was he made a difference, but he got a transcendent player. And then I started to question, Okay, so if it was a combination of both, then that's where when I look at these candidates, immediately I say I want the guys that have done it. So I start looking at guys like Zimmer, I start looking at guys like Rivera, I start looking at guys like Rex Ryan.
I start looking at.
Guys who have been successful defensive coordinators in the NFL, And I tell them the first thing I asked them when I walked them into the room.
Is what's your plan for Michael Parsons.
That's the that's the interview aside from Micah Parsons, which I completely agree. It happens simultaneously and you cannot take that away. But something that dan Quinn was able to do that I didn't feel like I saw with previous coaches defensive coordinators was his ability to turn players that are veteran that are not necessarily good bringing through a free agency. He was able to take guys like that and make them have or be impactful on the field.
And that's something I don't feel like we've seen in the past that with him. He and I get it like it kind of that started falling through because of injuries, though, I mean, you cannot blame him. It gets to the point where, Okay, you can only do so much with the backup, backup, Like there's only so much he can do.
But I think that's another element aside from Michael Parsons, that he was able to bring those players that are not bringing your bank and your cap money and all of that and turn them into players that can be helpful and impactful.
Yeah, and I think both of you are correct and correct that Mike Nolan didn't have Michael Parsons, nor did he have Treyvon Diggs. That being said, you have to believe that dan Quinn was a part of the conversation that helped lead Michael Parsons to Dallas.
That help he made the movie got him exactly my point.
So, and then you add to that the development of late Brown picks like Deron Bland into you know, building of staff that includes a guy like Al Harris and Joe Whitt and bringing that coaching staff in to match with personnel player personnel that then leads them to become
historic talents like darn Bland was able to do. And then prior to dan Quinn, one thing that fans were really up and arms about was the fact that you have some of these impact veterans out there, particularly at the safety position, that the Cowboys would not go out and get well, guess who came in and got Malie Hooker. That happened in the dan Quinn era when the focus and the emphasis on the value of safety really took a step forward under dan Quinn, unlike we've seen in recent court industry.
Right.
So that's the type of culture change that you that you lose with dan Quinn, not to say you won't gain it in someone that's proven, like a Zimmer or Ryan, but until we see it, we haven't seen it, So therein lies the concern. So you both are correct, but it's it's one of those things where you don't know too you know, and we won't know and too we know.
Well, what we've seen is those guys coordinate really good defenses. Yeah, we've seen that. And that's where again this is not a knock on Joe widd Jr. The fact of the matter is, though, because he has not had that role, I personally would have been a little hesitant to make him my defensive coordinator because.
I'd have been like, I think, I think I'm almost there, like and.
I don't I don't want to say that the wrong way because I know fans are kind of like, oh, here we go again. It's not that I think the Cowboys are ready for the Super Bowl. We've all kind of talked that ad nauseum. I do think they have enough talent to be competitive in the NFL, which means, as I said telling someone yesterday, if you can get to the playoffs in the NFL, you got a shot, right.
And so I think from that standpoint, the Cowboys have to look at this and say, this is not a rebuild, this is a can we get the right piece that puts us over that long right?
Yeah? Can we can we get those right pieces?
So I don't want to I don't want to take a step back by hiring a defensive coordinator that maybe doesn't have the experience and then have to go through the growing pains with them. I'd rather take somebody I can look at their experience, I can see exactly what they did as a defensive coordinator, and.
I can bring them in to do that. There's also a flip side to that.
Mike Nolan was a defensive coordinator who was very experienced, and it'd been very good, good enough to get a head coaching job. And that year in twenty twenty, maybe it was the year, it was a crazy year. We all know that, so maybe that was a part of it, but for whatever reason, it didn't translate to success here.
So all those things have to be factored in.
But I do like the idea of maybe looking at some of these guys who have been defensive coordinators and successful defensive coordinators in the NFL and figuring out which one has the best plan for Michael Parson. That to me is where this decision needs to.
Be made, and that's going to be very interesting point of attack for whatever DC comes in, because, like you said, are you playing him at off ball more often than not? Or are you going to drop him down and make him a defensive end more often than not? Because your decision there is going to largely impact the ripple effects that come out of that as far as the rest
of your defense is concerned. You are getting Trevon Diggs back, but you're getting him back from a twenty ACL that's going to require some time, which then kind of goes to my earlier point about do you keep Jordan Lewis. I would, doesn't necessarily mean the new DC would, because they're going to come in with their own ideas for both staff and personnel. For example, if you flip it to the Washington commander's side of the equation and how
that would impact the Cowboys. We talk about relationships. Dan Quinn, he has a great relationship with Dante Fowler Atlanta, Dallas. Does Dante Fowler, who's now an understricted free agent and barring a deal happening before between now and much, does he follow dan Quinn?
Does jay Ron Curse follow dan Quinn?
Darrence Armstrong?
Does Darrins Armstrong follow dan Quinn?
Now, I will say it's not entirely unlikely, but a little less likely for Dorrance because Durrance has such a strong relationship.
With the organization itself.
Yeah, but I'll see it. At the same time, money is money, and not only that. What we know what players is they look for coaches who know how to use them the best. And Durrance's Armstrong took a Dorn's Armstrong's career took a jump when he was working in Dwayne dan Quinn's defense as a part time player, like not even as a starter. And so I think from that standpoint that has to be factory, and I assume that will be factored in when he's making a decision.
I could see that, and I'll add a little bit to that because it just popped in my head as well. When you look at what Dorin Soarmstrong has gone through as far as the number of defensive coordinators that he's had in his time with the Cowboys, do you want to take on another or do you simply want to follow the guy that so to your point one hundred percent, so you just wonder how everything shakes up. But dan Quinn was a culture changing with the Cowboys. I get it.
Recently biased makes fans pissed off at him and and justifiably so be pissed off at everybody who was involved in that loss against the Packers, including him. You did not have that, and you Jakson ahead of time. But that being said, there was a there was a reason. Just wait, wait you are thirty. Wow, Wait a minute, they're blaming they're blaming rowdy, but the math is the math.
Wow. Okay, Wow, I'm joking.
I'm not.
Okay, okay, you know you're just.
Asking for it, are you right? I'm not asking.
I'll close with this, there is a reason that the Cowboys held off and allowed dan Quinn to make his decision because they really were hoping that he would return for all of the good things that you said, all of the good things that you said. So while things did not end well, fact is dan Quinn came in hit the ground running, and you hope that whomever follows him can also hit the ground running, especially because Mike McCarthy does not have a contract beyond twenty four.
It all has to happen right now.
All right, let's take our first break, will come back, and I want to throw out some of these names, and I want to get you guys to give us your opinions on who you think would be the best fit based on the things that you know. Well, then when we come back Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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We are in the second segment of the break line from the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. The segment is brought to you at blockchain dot com. All right, let's talk about the candidates. And these are just ireless to candidates. By the way, there may be some people that we talk about that are not on the Cowboys list. There maybe people that are on the Cowboys list that
we don't talk about. These are just names that I kind of looked at that are out there right now, Guys that are available who have been defensive coordinators in the league in some in most instances, I did throw in Aiden Dirty just because I like aid and Dirty. But yeah, so I think he should be a part of the conversation. But I want to throw these names out there. And by the way, if you guys have other names you want to throw into this mix, you can.
But here's what I'm gonna throw. Here are the names I got, and I want you to tell me which one intrigues you most. You got Mike Zimmer, Ron Rivera Rex, Ryan, Aiden, Dirty, Wink, Martindale or whomever else you might want to throw out there. What name jumps out at you most.
Who I do love me some Wink Martindale, But after what he did in New York, well, I don't think things. I think the result that you saw in New York was symptomatic of a deeper problem as far as Stable and Wink just did.
Not get along.
Do you think that that all possibly shows kind of like it? And I don't want to, I don't want to get you off track, but I just I wonder sometimes if if that's an indication of a guy who sometimes is not willing to just abdicate to the head coach, because ultimately the head coach is the CEO. It's in any group if you're not willing to I tell you all the time, my job for my boss is to make sure he looks good. So if he tells me this is a direction we need to go, guess what
I'm going to go in that direction. I'm going to give it the best I got in that direction, because ultimately he has to be accountable to the final outcome. Right, it does it show you that maybe Wink Martin Dale is not that guy, and so you bring him in you might get what you get. It might be good, it might not fit the overall concept of what do you think is best for the team if you're the head coach.
I get the feeling that Wank Martindale is unwilling to acquiesce to new head coaches because Wink has been around, He's been with hardwhile he's bitten, He's been to the top of the mountain. He understands, and he has such a long and improven resume that when you have a new head coach like Brian Dabo coming in who's fiery and he wants things done in his way, which is completely fine at your organization, But if you're Wink Martindale, you're basically looking at him in meeting rooms and saying
that's not going to work. And I don't believe that what you're saying is gonna work, and I know that it's not gonna work. Flip it to the Cowboys situation. Mike McCarthy's proven that's a different level of respect, is what I'm saying. I don't think that you'd see many of those types of rifts between Wank Martindale and Mike McCarthy because I believe McCarthy would command a certain respect from Martindale that Dabo or any other new head coach
simply would not command from Martindale. But I will also say that with me. With Martindale jumping off of the page, Zimmer also jumps off of the page for me as well. When you talk about the pre existing relationship between Zimmer and this organization, and you talk about what he came up from with this organization, defensive assistant, defensive backs coach, defensive coordinator, and then he was a defensive coordinator for multiple head coaches. We were talking about it during the break.
He went from a four to three or from a yeah, from a four three to running a three four and the Bill Parcells and still had the defense doing some great things. Look at some of the players he's coached. Darren Woodson, DeMarcus Ware shouts out to Dad Win uh, and who's my other guy? Who's with Come on, it's ah, it's my other guy's escaping me?
Safety safety Hammer Hamlin.
No, it's gonna come to me.
So anyway, he's coached several not only notable names, but headline names.
Mike Zimmer when he was Minnesota.
No, no, it's not Woodson, it's another one. It's Roy Williams the safety. That's another one. There's a list that's a good one. But there's one in particular. It'll come to me when I'm not trying to think about it. See, this is what did he coach Hamlin? I don't remember he was here when Hamlin. No, Hambrick, Hamlin No. I'm telling you. I think it was Hambrick that he coached, not well Hambrick. Okay, yeah, So nonetheless he's coached notable
headline and some Hall of Fame talent. In any variation of the defense, I think Mike Zimmer really really jumps off and far ahead of Rex Ryan, ahead of Ron Rivera, and kind of right up there against wing Martin dip what jumps off at you?
Hammer?
Well, this is very conflicting in my mind. I have so many thoughts, like just go back and forth because and this is a tough fight. On one hand, I am drawn to Aiden Dirty because because he's here, you know, he's been here, he's good at what he does. I think all the players really respect them. He he's been here, so he knows. So there's not a big transition gap. You know. He can make that transition pretty smoothly.
I think ahead was a lot.
We said trying to but you said safety has.
Like that.
Continue you that's what I mean.
Good years.
Anyways, what I was saying is I like that that wouldn't be a big change. It's a smooth transition and he has the experience. But at the same time you're switching. That's a big jump from what you were doing to now becoming the defensive coordinator. So that kind of scares me. The newness of it. It scares me, but I like that he's been here. On the other hand, and another thing,
I like that he's young. He's on the younger side, and part of me, I'm more into now the younger coaches, and just like there's big there's a big difference between like the coaches are stepping now into those roles versus Ron Rivera, Mike Simmer, the older coaches. And that's my problem when it comes to the outside coaches. Now they
are older, but they do have the experience. So now it's like, Okay, they could come in and make the bigger impact because if you're trying to make it happen this year, this season coming up, then it's good to have that experience in there. And right now, as far as the candidates, I'm not a huge fan of Ron Rivera, never really have been. Don't ask me why. I'm just not especially the last few years. I haven't been impressed
with what he's been able to accomplish. Yes, yes, so that doesn't attract me very much right now from what.
Before he was doing that, he took Carolina pants, He's had success, and so yeah, he's been successful, But I'm looking.
At recent years. I'm looking at the now and not what it was not that the past. So right now with Mike Zimmer, I think he he's in the top of the list right now for me as well, just because of the experience that he brings into the table and maybe that's something that can translate into quick impact this year. So it's just I don't know. I don't know what to feel because experience versus someone that's already here and successful.
There are pros and cons both ways. But I what you just said, something stuck out of what you just said, which was you're going by what happened recently, right You know who hasn't done anything recently is Rex Ryan. This is one of the problems I have with Rex Ryan. He's been out of the league for the most part. Since twenty sixteen, at least, Zimmer has been in the league,
albeit in the head coaching capacity. Zimmer was in the NFC Championship against the Eagles in twenty seventeen, right, so you know, half a decade ago, so not long ago, but he was. He's been in the league and he's only recently set out twenty twenty two after departing from
the Minnesota Viking. So again that goes to my point with Zimmer is that not only do you have a proven guy who has a preexist the good relationship with the Cowboys organization, this is a guy who can come in and scheme whatever you put in front.
Of him and make them successful.
Yes, it's gonna be it's gonna be a culture shock because dan Quinn's style of coaching that ain't Mike Zimmer's style of coaching. But this style of coaching might be what you need right now and Mike Zimmer. So for me, Ron Rivera, I'll also give Ron Rivera some credit in that when you are because like you said, it's hard to be successful, as dan Quinn is about to find out when you're with the Washington commanders. But what dan Quinn won't find out is what it means to have
to coach under Dan Snyder's ownership. So maybe dan Quinn has more luck there, maybe not. But I think Rivera take the commanders out of the equation for the most part, because that was just a I was gonna say, but that was just a horrible situation all around. Look at his success with the Panthers, look at his success as a defensive coordinator prior to the Panthers. There's good to be had there. So for me, it's Zimmer put Win Martindale right up there against him Rivera, and then way
down here is where you got Rix Ryan. I'm intrigued by eight and Dirty, but again, proven season for Mike McCarthy, I don't know that he has time for the learning curve that might come with a brand a first time defensive coordinator, even though Dirty is much beloved in this organization.
Here's what I throw out there, because I think you guys both hit on some really interesting points. If you're one of the people for our listeners out there, if you're one of those people that you believe this defense has a lot of potential, but they just don't have the right mindset. I've heard people talk about their toughness, the mental toughness, maybe the accountability. Then I think this is an easy list to call down. I think your
guy immediately just jumps out as Mike Zimmer. And the reason why I say that is because, look, I'm not in any of the meetings the Cowboys have right now with their team, so I can't say this as a matter of fact. But my guess is, and at least from seeing and listening to what Mike says, what players say about Mike, it seems like he's more of a player's coach style coach.
He's not the fire and brimstone type coach.
He's not going to go into a meeting and basically dogcusts the team when they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
That's not the impression I get of him. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
I don't know.
That's not the impression I get. Mike Zimmer, on the other hand, is k Iron brimstone coach. I don't think you characterize him as a players coach. You would characterize him as just.
A tough coach.
That's all about accountability, right, and So when you look at it from that standpoint, if you think this team could use some of that, and then you could have the balance of a head coach that's looking out for the players and it's concerned about the players and by the way, all these things that you should be looking at their mental health and all those kinds of things that are important. But then you also have that other coach over here is like, yeah, any of my job.
My job is making your job right and having that balance, Maybe Mike Zimmer is what exactly what this team needs. When you start talking about going all in and finding that piece that gets you over the hump, maybe Mike Zimmer can be that.
For this team.
Here's also the other thing I think about with guys like Rex Ryan and Wi Martindale, I just like how aggressive they are in calling defenses. They are the kind of defensive coordinators. They're sending blitzes and they're sending them from everywhere. It's stuff coming from everywhere. And when you have players like Michael Parsons and players like DeMarcus Lawrence, and like I'll say this even about Mike Zimmer, he
loves those ab gap blitzes. Maybe that is what your linebackers need in order to put them over the hunt, like giving that ability for them sometimes to be rushing up the a gap versus dropping in coverage.
Maybe that's a skill set that of Damon.
Clark has that could make him go from being a linebacker that's just a guy right now to being a linebacker that really is an impact type player.
Right So, all I'm saying is I like the aggressiveness.
So there's some names on here that you can really look at from an aggressive standpoint. I think Rex Ryan and Martindale probably are more on the far side of that aggressiveness piece. And then there's also the piece of who's gonna give you that toughness and who's gonna give you that accountability, And I think Mike Zimmer, for me, represents that.
I think Mike Zimmer is the sweet spot. I really do when you look at the pros of each. For example, you know Rex Ryan he's gonna be firing brimstone, just like Mike Zimmer will be fire and brimstone.
But Zimmer is.
More proven more recently, and all of the other things I said about Mike Zimmer. When you look at Mink Martindale, yes, very aggressive, just like Rex Ryan and sending blitzes. But you also have to love the fact that Mike Zimmer is the OG of Semblitz. Right, are they coming? Are they dropping back in coverage? And the moment you think they're dropping back in coverage, they're coming. The moment you
think they're coming, they're dropping back in coverage. A lot of that that you're seeing in some of these young coordinators they got that exactly from Mike Zimmer. Why not, you know, take advantage of the OG, right, I bring the OG in to get it done. So when you look at a lot of different things, you have pros for Rex Ryan aggressiveness both as fire and Brimstone old school ball coach is going to hold accountable. But you're going to get that from Mike Zimmer as well, just
like you'd get it from Wink Martindale. I don't think Ron Rivera's brought with fire and Brimstone. He's closer to Mike McCarthy as far as temperament is concerned. But then when you look at some of the other things, recency of production, Ryan doesn't have that Zimmer has that you don't want to use what the commanders part of the resume on RIVERA. So I just really think Mike Zimmer
is the sweet spot. When you look at all things considered, there's not there's not a perfect candidate that's available right now, but there is one that's better than the rest, and I think that's.
My I like what you said with just having that balance between Mike McCarthy and him what he can bring of Mike McCarthy being the players coach and him bringing the toughness, because I think, like in most things, to be successful, you need that balance. You need someone to be the bad guy and then you need someone to be the cool person. You know, like celebrities, they have.
Me and you.
That's exactly.
Celebrities have their managers. Who are the bad guy? Which one are you?
In this case, I'm the nice count.
I'm the guy that everybody loves to be around.
The implication, the implication that's cold.
Seriously, I'm just you are you are, But wait until another day that you catch me in a different mood.
Let me also say one more thing about when it comes to Mike Zimmer. The success which has been a while ago for Rex Ryan. That success came in what conference the AFC, Mike Zimmer's production and success has been more recent and in what conference? The NFC, same conference that the Cowboys playing. So I say that to say, on top of the other pros that Mike Zimmer presents, he knows how to navigate this specific conference.
But this conference has changed a great deal since even he was a coach. Think about it.
The number of teams in the NFC to have different coaching staffs now than what they did when he was.
He coach coaching in twenty one.
I understand that.
So there are new faces about how doubt but think about how Dallas has changed.
Think about the NFC. Just look at the NFC East. His record is against every team.
Every team in the NFC East has a new coach since two thousand and nineteen. I want to say, NFC East, Yeah, Mike, Mike is the most tenured.
Isn't Mike the most ten those Yeah?
Again, he's only he's only had four years and and he's the most sus Right.
So my point is like, I don't know that I hear what. I hear your point.
I don't know that it makes a huge difference because I think the NFL turns over so quickly. The coaching staffs turn over so quickly and what a team looks like today from the standpoint of the coaches and the schemes that they run. They changed year to year to every two years, every three years. I mean, even think about the Cowboys. Their offense changed last year. Even though
you had the same coach, the offense changed. So I don't know that that's when I would look at but I would say this for for a lot of these guys, if they've stayed in touch with the game during the time that they've been off they could come back better coaches than they were.
When the England which is what Mike McCarthy did, right.
They can come back better coaches because of the fact that they had a chance to sit and look and think about what is the nature of the current NFL offense?
What is the nature of a current years Maybe it just depends on who it is.
You know, anything is possible.
Yeah, but to his point, it really depends on who it is. I thought, good they are, Yeah, top of the show.
I said.
One of my concerns is that how quickly can the new DC hit the ground running.
I think it would take a while for Rix.
Ryan to hit the ground running, not because he lacks ability but because he's been out of the league since twenty sixteen and he has to get his bearings, Mike Zimmer doesn't have to get his bearings. He was only off from the NFL for one year, but he was still coaching during that During that time, he was consulting and doing analyst work for Jackson State. But while he was doing that the past five, six, seven, eight years,
Rix Ryan was in a broadcast beat right. So as far as hitting the ground running, if you really want to caalm that concern with me, get a guy who I've seen recently.
Well, the problem is the stakes are so high right now that it really needs to Here's my fear and you have to get past that because you have to hire somebody and you got to take it. But my fear is like, okay, fast forward. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be pessimistic because if anything, I'm the one who will be out there supporting the Cowboys and thinking this is the year when it's not. But we first stop, I'm not quit restricting me. But my
fear is fast forward. We get to the scenario where it doesn't happen, but we see things that were good. We see things that were successful in the defense, and then we get that, well it was first year, next year, it should be now this. But then you also got to add the element that that might be or this might be the end, that my McCarthy's last year and all that. But it's just it's it's such a high stake right now and such a big gamble and it's
a big, big decision. And again we talked about, you know, I think it's been you, Derek bringing up this whole thing of like the standard for the Star and like where the pressure of players receiving this pressure, this amount of pressure, and I think it also applies to coaches as well. And whoever comes in, there's such a big pressure right off the bat that I wonder how quickly can someone even experienced or not experienced or not as experienced,
can they well apply everything or make those changes. I don't know.
Here's the fact.
The fact is we saw Mike Nolan come in and it completely went downhill in one year. We saw Dan come in and he completely elevated it in one year.
So yeah, it can go either way.
And by the way, both of them were experienced and successfully experienced defensive coordinators in the NFL, and so there is no real guarantee with any of them.
I personally, again.
If I'm looking at this list, I look at this list and I say, the safest pick, and in my opinion, the best pic is Mike zimmer because I think he has all those things we just talked about, the accountability of the toughness. He can be aggressive, He understands the organization, he understands the weight of the star.
He's lived it. He lived it for a long time.
Yeah, so was here first.
Time years.
Yeah, he was through multiple head coaches for multiplayer coaches switch he started with he was a secondary coach at one point, and then he got to that long yeah. Yeah, and uh and so he just he gets this building and this is a unique this is a unique building, a unique franchise.
He gets all that.
And so I think when you look at just everything involved, I think the safest and the best pick in my mind for what I know of it, there would be a Mike Zimma.
And we'll find out tomorrow, right well, or should.
Be honestly, I will be I will actually be shocked if that happens tomorrow. I I if I was putting money on it, which we don't bet. We can't bet, just for the record, we can't bet on anything sports related.
Anyway.
If I were a betting man and I was putting money on it, I would actually bet that this decision doesn't come until next week, just because it feels like the Cowboys are doing their due diligence, which I like, and and that may require them to take a little more time. They may have a decision already, like they've they've talked to a lot of guys. They may already know who they want, and so that may make them
say we're ready to make a decision. What we know is that they're not going to make the decision Saturday before Super Bowl. So we might find out something tomorrow, we might find out something next week. But at the end of the day, I just I hope that they're taking their time and then really thinking through everything. And like I said before, whoever they hire, they better have a hell of a plan for Michael Parsons, a great plan for Mike.
That's where it all starts and ends.
From me.
I'm more comfortable putting Micah in the hands of Mike Zimmer knowing this is a guy who coached the Marcus Ware for example, and you look at the what Mike Zimmer would be inheriting, which would be whoever comes in, they're going to inherit this. Michael Parsons, Trevon Diggs, Deron Bland, Cornerstone guys, de Marcus Lawrence, bring him back because he's headed.
A lot of talent on this.
There's so much talent.
I just feel like when you look at it from how Mike Zimmer has run defenses and been successful, I just think that it would be more of an immediate impact as far as versus waiting for someone to get their bearings who've been out of the league for a while and still trying to figure some things out.
And again I say, he knows how to navigate the NFC.
Yes, there's been some changes, but some of these coaches are still the same, and ultimately, whichever coach can beat the forty nine ers is the one I want.
All Right, So here's what we're gonna do. We're not gonna get to Dak Prescott. But what we are gonna do you get back. When we get back, You're going to pick the super Bowl. We're gonna talk about Super Bowl a little bit and then next week what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about.
Can't you ever keep up with promises or things that you say?
Like you never like you knew she was coming back?
Why can't you ever stand what you say?
Episode?
I'm just saying, you want to talk about player pay, You want to talk about players being held accountable. Hold yourself accountable, Derek. Okay, you cannot preach and not do at the same time. Okay, you gotta do it by the example before preaching.
Well, next time I'll just cut y'all off and won't let you talk as much. How about that.
We're gonna take a final fight. We'll come back, We'll get into the super Bowl. Give you our picks.
We'll back now Cowboys that commrady smooth smoke.
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Welcome Back. Final segment of the break we are live from. That's WBC Mortgage Studios. At the start, it's time to pick the Super Bowl. I actually want to take this from two different standpoints. I want you first to tell me who you want to win, and then tell me who you think is going to win, because those things.
Don't have to be the same.
Let's start with you, Patrick, Kansas City versus San Francisco and the Super Bowl.
Who do you want to win? Who do you think wins?
I want nothing good for San Francisco, so I want the Kansas City Chiefs to win. I want Patrick Mahomes to go out there and do to San Francisco what he was able to do to the Eagles. Just kill all my enemies. Thank you, mister Mahomes. Who I think will win is I also think it will be Patrick Mahomes.
I think that.
You know, while brock Party has come on strong over these past couple of games kind of leveled up a bit, Patrick Mahomes has as well. And the key thing for the Chiefs is that the receivers are not dropping passes.
Rice is playing well, right, Rice.
Is playing well, but even Valdez scantling, He's coming up with big catches. Now and that was really the crux of what was wrong with the Kansas City Chiefs over most of the year was that they led the league in drops and that's why they lost to the Philadelphia Eagles in Kansas City because of the drop by Valdas Scantland. So now that his receivers Patrick Mahomes's receivers are catching the ball, I think Mahomes is going to Mahomes. Andy Reid is in his bag and quite as it's kept.
Because they don't get talked about enough, Kansas City Chiefs defense is one of the best.
In the league.
Absolutely one percent. I agree with everything you said. I feel the same exact way I think.
One.
I do want the Chiefs to win, and then too, I think they will win. I think with the San Francisco forty nine ers, we've seen moments of they've they've been very successful, but they've had moments of weakness where
you can attack them. And I think the Chiefs just have way more experience in this setting, in this environment and right now, everything y'all know, miss vibe, all the things that I've seen on social though, the vibe is just the Chiefs just have the vibe for it and every time I see it, forty nine Ers players pop up on screen. They just annoy me. So yeah, I think the Chiefs have everything too. It's gonna be a really really good game, and I think it's gonna be
a close one. But I do believe the Chiefs get the win.
Let me have this really quickly, Derek.
To Ambar's point, the forty nine Ers barely escape with their lives against the Green Bay Packers. The Detroit Lions had them did to rights before choking that game away. Contrarily, Kansas City Chiefs walked into Baltimore against the number one see against the front runner for MVP and clamped.
I take the Chiefs in this one.
Yeah, I also want the Chiefs to win. I think they will not win. I think here's the interesting part and what I'm keeping an eye on is Joe Thuny, the.
Guard for the Chiefs.
The one thing that I seen that one antidote to Patrick Mahomes and what he does and what he's done in Super Bowls, but specifically is if you can get a pass rush on him and make it to where he is uncomfortable and get to him. Because, by the way, just having a pass rush doesn't matter. Sometimes he still knows how to get out of it and get it. But when you can get to him and you can affect the passing game by getting to him, that's when
they haven't had success in the Super Bowl. And I look at that Joe Thuny injury as that kind of serious moment because I don't know much about their backup. My question I thought would be he ain't as good as Thuny, and so if that's If that's the case, then you're now gonna have pressure that can come. And we know San Francisco's front can get after you. They absolutely can get after you. They can bring those linebackers
as well up the middle. There's lots of ways that they can create pressure on him, and without his starting guard, I think that can be a problem for them. I just I kind of have a feeling that ultimately, when it comes down to it, the difference in this game will be San Francisco's defense. I think they will make the plays and they will ultimately be the reason why San Francisco gets to win.
I don't want that to happen, but that's.
What I think.
You don't feel that if there's any coach in the league that could scheme around an injury.
It's Andy Reid.
That's nice.
But what I saw in the Super Bowl that Patrick Mahomes lost a few years ago. They got after and he just couldn't figure out how to get the ball out before he was under pressure, under duress and getting hit. So I've seen this, I've seen this movie before. I know how it ends. And so again I'm not saying that that they can necessarily do it, but I think if you don't, if you're without one of your pieces, that's a start to them being able to do that.
And let's not forget they do have one of the best, if not the best front four in the league.
Agreed, but that same front four was basically mauled in the first half against the Lions on the ground.
So this is how you counterbalance that.
You try to neutralize some of the pass rush early, you get Isaiah Pachecko, that run game involved, and the Lions have shown you what gaps to hit, how this scheme and how the pin and pull and do what you need to do against the forty nine ers and get off and get huge runs and take the pass rush out of the game, and then that should free Patrick Maholmes.
Up to do what he dis That's nice, but they're gonna win based on Patrick Mahomes's arm, not on as I'm saying, as so far as helping the neutral life. I get what you're saying, but I think at the end of the day, they're gonna be like, all right, but checko, get your four or five. You ain't gonna take it to the house. Get your four or five.
We'll do that. We'll okay with that. But but at the end of the day, what.
We're not going to do is we're not gonna let the quarterback sit back there and just dissect us. And so that's the part where if they can make that work again, that.
Is a tough house because Mahomes is a he is the truth.
Obviously, he's the best quarterback in the NFL approaching getting in that conversation, among the best in the league district. But that being said, like I've seen this particular situation when they could.
Have seen this season.
No, no, well, this season they had issues with the receiver.
But but I'm saying in Super Bowls, I've seen situations where they couldn't protect them and that was ultimately the reason why they didn't win, and I think this is the kind of team that can present some of those similar kind of challenges, especially if he's one man down on this offensive.
I think because the Chiefs have proven that they can run the ball, and you look at the conference championship game wherein the line shows that they that the forty nine ers can be run against, I think there's a good opportunity there to neutralize the pass rush.
But that was a naboration though, right, Like have they been like that all season?
Not all seasons? True, but if you allow it once, then you will know.
I think I think sometimes there plus person out like we always talk, yes, but I do think sometimes that's a that's a function also of what was the game plan going in, And maybe the game plan was we're going to accept these things because we figure this is better than the alternative, right, And I'm not saying that's what I'm just. All I'm saying is I don't know that. I I don't look at the San Francisco fortnight and say they're weak against the run.
They are not weak against the run. I'm not saying they are a good run deep.
I'm saying they just recently showed sure, that they can be on any given day, and all that needs to be is this given day. I also say, if that pass Rusk gets neutralized and or doesn't get to Patrick Mahomes, Fred Warner's coverage, notwithstanding that secondary is lunch against Patrick Mahomes. If the Chiefs receivers continue to not drop the ball, that's the big thing.
Look, I think you can make an argument because you don't get to this point in the season without having a lot of good things that you can do. I just think that as I look at it, the thing that really would merge me most, especially because I want Kansas City to win, is the fact that if they if they're shorthanded on the offensive line, I think that can make a huge difference. And as we all know, with a lot of quarterbacks, the tackle is not the guy that they really worry more about.
It's that guard interior.
Because when you start getting that pressure up the middle, and we know they got some beast San Francisco got some beasts in the middle of their defense. You start getting those guys getting through and getting into my homes face and in his lap.
That can change a game.
That can change the game game significantly. So that's the part that worries me. Let's hope that that doesn't happen. But that's the part that one of the rare.
Times I went against Mahomes was in that AFC Championship against the Ravens.
That just happened. Yeah, I'm not doing it.
I said, I said in that game.
I was like, until somebody shows me they can stop this guy from going to a super Bowl, I'm gonna stick with him because he said he tends to figure out how to get to the super Bowl most of the time.
Patrick will see, I believe in you. All right, business, all.
Right, guys, I appreciate you.
Guys.
We're back next week.
We'll talk about the super Bowl a little bit and maybe next week we'll get into some DAK talk. We'll see if these guys don't talk so much.
NFL honors happens tomorrow night. We got several guys who are who are up.
For award around his war.
The one that I care about the most, the absolute most Hall of Fame announcements. Praying our guy Darren Woodson gets in. We'll see how him. We we'll see how that goes. He deserves to be there.
Uh, but we'll see how that goes Mike, that's exactly right. Guess, great stories on that too, if he gets in and we'll bring them on, maybe we'll.
Talk about some of that. All right, We'll be back next week. Till then for Patrickwalker and Garcia.
This is all show right to the end too.
We'll we'll see you guys next week.
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