Cowboys Break: Clearing the Air

The Break. I'm live from that s WBC Mortgage studios at the start, and we are presented by Geico got Nick here with me in studio. We got David amber on remotely. We're gonna talk offense today. We've been talking offense to the last couple of shows, but we're going to finish up that offensive review today, talking a little bit about the offensive line and the tight end position.

You'll also get to some fan questions. My hope is that we will be able to spend at least at least an entire segment of the show on fan questions, because I know you guys always give me a hard time because I usually don't get to questions. But hopefully we'll get a chance to do that here and get a lot of your questions out there and answer some of those questions before we get started today. I quickly

just wanted to say something. I'm sure those of you who are out there listening have seen all the stuff about the hype video, and there's been a bunch of stuff out there, and I just wanted to say to you guys that are listening, and this is specifically for you guys, because the way I look at it is, if you're sitting on this podcast in February, you're the people I'm most concerned about, Like you are our core customer,

and you expect greatness from us. And I just wanted to say to you, guys, we've felled you in this instance. We will be better. We apologize, but we certainly will be better. And I want you guys to know, because I care about what you guys think, that we're going to be better. We're going to fix some things and we'll be better than this. And that's where I want to leave that. I did want to say, though, Nick, after last week's show, we had actually an interesting conversation

on DAK in last week's show. It probably took a lot more of the show than we even expected, because you had a question that you wanted to throw out there, and I think after the show, at least what you said, I saw you put it on Twitter two that you think people didn't really quite understand or get the full brunt of what you were trying to say in your

question and what you were saying after that. I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about that, and I'm not even sure I didn't understood what I was trying to say until later, until some of the Twitter I would say arguments, but just kind of the back and forth. So a lot of times on this show, when when we say certain things, if you don't agree with everyone, you get put in a different corner of like,

well this is this is where your take is. There's people that think that I hate Dak, or I'm a dad hater or whatever. What I said was is is you know, I think that that Dak has room to grow, and we all think that way. So I'll just tell you right now where I stand, if there's any clarity, this is where I stand about Dak Prescott. I think he is a really good quarterback. I think the Cowboys should resign him. I think for sure that's what they need to do. That's their best option for them to win.

You were at you asked me where a lot of people thought was funny. Who's the top five? But who's better? That's irrelevant to me. I think he's somewhere between six and ten. But it doesn't matter. That's irrelevant. What's irrelevant is can the Cowboys? This is my biggest issue more than with Dak. Can the Cowboys field a team around him with a forty million a year contract? Because when he was making two they made one round of the

playoffs and that was it. Last year thirty one million they had where depth was a terrible issue for this team. Now he's got to make forty million a year. Can the pieces around him be better? Can the Cowboys constructed? Is he good enough to elevate this team? I only think there's three or four people ever that can do that.

So I have my concern if Dak Prescott is good enough to elevate this franchise at forty million a year, because I haven't seen that they can draft consistently on fans, that they can actually do anything in free agency to help him. So that is my good concern. Is he good enough to take this team up and be even more elite? And that's my concern where I want him on my team. Yes, I think he's a really good quarterback. I think he's a fantastic leader, and he's perfect for

the face of the franchise. But for this particular franchise, I do have my doubts that they can build a team around him. I will say this real quick. The only thing I have to say about that is I do think that in spite of all that you just said, he is their only hope. Like right now, when I look at this team and you know, this game comes back. I had a conversation with someone about this whole hype

video thing, and you know, again, I get it. I understand how people are looking at this like how could this happen? Because quite frankly, I look at it and I'm saying the same thing. I'm looking at like how did we get here? Because you look at it, and to me, there are three things. If you're a Cowboys fan and you went through twenty twenty, there are three things that could get you potentially excited about twenty twenty. One.

Number one, Lyle Collins number two, Tyren Smith number three, and I probably should have done him in inverse order because he would be number one is Dak Prescott. If you get those three pieces back, that is where Cowboys fans probably look at this and they're like, that's the hope, Like that's the hope that twenty twenty one can be better. So whatever the thoughts are about what you gotta pay him and all that, look, they got to figure that out.

And I'm talking about the Cowboys exactly. They gotta figure out how much they can pay him to make it all work. At the end of the day, I look at it and say, he is necessary if they want to win, and win now, dave you everything you want. Throwing on that a few things, I mean, you know, and I don't. I don't want to let us off the hook for that mistake completely. I mean, he should have been in the video. I think we would all

agree with that. But I just think it speaks to the contentious nature of this whole thing that it blew up the way that it did. You know, I told

Nick yesterday, just me and him having a conversation. It finds me of political discourse in the sense that like you're not allowed to have a middle of the road or nuanced take, Like if Dak's not in the video, it means we hate Dak and they're trying to move on from Dak and YadA YadA, or if Dak is the face of the video, that means something too, like you can only you can only be a Dak homer or a Dak hater. There's no room for anything in between.

So I would just love for him to get signed so we can kind of put that phase of this behind us, because it's I think everybody's tired of it one way or the other, but it just is what

it is. And then I kind of laughed because I don't necessarily disagree with what Nick just said, but I'm just kind of at a point where I'm like, well, they couldn't put together a great team when they weren't paying Dak anything, so like, I mean, they already tried that, They already tried building a team with a cheap quarterback and they couldn't do it. So at least in investing with Dak, I know what I'm getting, which is a

really good quarterback. So I'm a lot like I'm like, Wow, that's okay, because they couldn't do anything with the savings the last four years, so why not pay them a lot of money. It's fine by me, all right, Amber. I know from your reaction on Twitter when Nick put that up there that you don't really have any much

to say about this anymore. You're tired of this conversation, and I think you probably you're probably like most people out there, like just get a deal done so we can move on to other topics, because there are other topics around this team that we probably need to address. So let's jump right in. We're gonna talk a little bit about the offensive line and the tight end position

today in our offense review. We're gonna start first with the offensive line, and I mentioned Tyren Smith and Lyle Collins. My question for you guys to start this conversation is, assuming Tyrn and Lyle return at full strength, do you expect Dallas's offense to be among the best in the NFL? Do they make that much of a difference. Let's start

first with you, Amber. Yeah, yes, but that's just so difficult to say, because yes, talent wise, we've seen it with these guys, they have been among the best in the NFL if not the best in my books in my book, but again it comes down to how long can they stay on the field, how long can you use them for and rely on them. The whole injury thing is so unpredictable. But the one thing we've noticed is that is a there's a pattern here. It has been happening every single year there's an online guy that

gets injured. Mainly, you know, we say it with Lyle, we say it definitely with urn Smith and in Sack Martin, which is one of the best in the league. Even him, he has had trouble in the past couple of years of staying on the field. So does it really help you to have the best guys on your team if you can't really have them on the field? I don't think so. But yes, if they are healthy and they are back to their football shape and they're out there, absolutely I do think that they would be among the

best in the NFL. Dave, I'm about to do my best Mickey Spagnola impression and say, why don't you go turn on the tape of the Super Bowl and tell me of having your starting tackles makes a difference. And I'm you know, I guess I'm a Bucks hater now again, like there's no room for nuance, Like everybody thinks I hate the Bucks. The Bucks deserve all the credit in

the world for getting the job done. But go back to last year and equally fearsome pass rush could not make the difference against Pat Mahomes when he had time to throw the ball. So miss me with that defense wins championships. Crap, give Pat Mahomes as tackles in that game. Maybe the Chiefs don't win, but it's definitely not a beatdown. So yes, yes, Lyle Collins and Tyron Smith can make

that much of a difference. The problem is you just can't completely trust that at this point, specifically with Tyron more so than Lyell. This is his fifth year of having to deal with this. So I hope to hell that this surgery really kind of course correct, and I won't be surprised at all if Tyrn can play another four to six years of healthy football, if this surgery

did what it's supposed to. But I can't sit here in twenty twenty one and be like, yes, he's definitely gonna play sixteen games, um, but if he can, hell yeah, it'll make a world of difference. And if Dak, Lyle and Tyrn are all healthy and playing for this team, they will have one of the best offenses in the NFL next year. Yes, Nick, Yeah, of course, without a doubt. I think they will. I think the continuity of Kellen Moore,

uh and Dak and then in that offensive line. I mean I think that when you when you start to see, you know, Dak started had he had to figure out how to win games without having you know, the Tyron Smith all the time or even Lyell and had to play some of the games last year. It was tough, you know, with Terrence Steal, Brandon and I and all that stuff. So you get those guys back, and I think that you know, Das had to learn and to play that way and to be better. Uh yeah. And

I think it'll help Zeke too. And if Zeke is better, you know, if they can get out to some leads, that's that's the key, that's the way they want to play. If they can play like that, then I think Zeke will be better. And I think the Cowboys will be better because they're they're playing a different style of football. So here's the million dollar question, how likely in your opinions, and I know you may not. Obviously, you guys probably

haven't talked to the doctors or anybody else. But how likely do you think it is that you're going to get both those guys back at full strength this year? Nicholas Stark, I do think it's likely. I think what Amber said, though, it'll be someone else. I mean, it'll be something you know, you have to you have to be ready for that. You have to have seven or eight linemen that you that you feel I can start a football game for you, and they should have that

because of what they went through this last year. So I think it's likely though that Tyrant I think he's needed this surgery for two or three years. So you know, it's just like I wrote this week, Glass half you know, glass half empty or half full, half full says, Wow, he'll be back because he had surgery and he's healthy. Glass half empty says, well, he had surgery, you know, like he's got to come back from that, so I think he will. Okay, Dave, I mean I would I

would never bet against Tyrant Smith. He's one of the toughest guys I've ever been around. I have a pretty good relationship with him and have just I know him well enough to know would not bet against that dude, especially, like I said, if this is a surgery that kind of corrects these lingering issues that he's had. At the same time, it's your job as a football team to protect yourself from these things. So I'm I'm optimistic and confident that both of them will be back, but you

just can't completely trust to that. Does that mean they need to draft to tackle in the top ten? Not necessarily, but they need to invest significant capital in backing that up, probably a draft pick, because a free agent would be

very expensive. So whether it's the first round, second round, third round, maybe the fourth round, but they need a talented guy who can come in here and be their number three and be better than Brandon Knight and Terrence Deal, you know, or at least that's what I think they should do to properly mitigate that risk. Well, I mean,

obviously I hope they can. But the thing is every year, I feel like every year we go into the off season and then get to start in training camp thinking and expecting that, oh, this is the year we're gonna have the old lineman back and put together, and it just doesn't really happen. And I know that the turgeries are different and all that, but if it's not one thing, if it's not the neck, it's the back or the

leg or the knee, it's always something. And as great as Tyren Smith is and Lill Collins is another big guy, Zack Martin as well, at some point your body kind of starts giving up. And again, I am not in their body. I am not in their position. I am not a medical doctor or anything, but that's just how I see it. It's been years back to back, and I do have confidence that they can be out there on the field, but my biggest concern is for how long? And how long is that going to help you for?

So I think that the Cowboys need to go in with a really really good backup plan, a lot better than what they did last year. That's an interesting part and that's actually why I was gonna go next. Nick, I'll ask you the question because I think Amber and David kind of hit it. Do you think the Cowboys need to have a much stronger backup plan than what

they had this year? And Terrence Still and Brandon Knight and Cam Irving Because the one thing I will say, is as the season we're on, I think you started to see maybe a little bit of improvement from Terrence. Still, I don't know that it was to the level that you wanted to be, But did you see enough there where it made you think maybe he's developing enough where he could be your backup option. Cam Irving is a veteran. Is he a good or now he was hurt for a lot of that time too. Is he a guy

that could be a backup option? Or do you think you really got to go as Day said and think about first, second, third round to give yourself a backup plan. Yeah? I mean I think that in their mind they had a really nice backup plan last year because they got a first round pick who hadn't played like a first round pick. But he's going to be a good swing tackle in cam Irving, and it took a while for

him to finally get it going there. They thought Brandon Knight could also be a good fourth tackle and he he was. I mean, and Terrence Steele was just a guy that that kept developing. I guess, and um, well, I mean he did. I just didn't even in fact, he wasn't even in their plans. He wasn't in their plans and so he just jumped in in the mix and he was better than some of the other guys, which didn't say much. Um, I agree with Dave. Yeah,

I'm drafting a guy. He's the only he is the This offensive lineman is the only offensive player I'm taking before the fourth round. I mean, it would be the only thing I would consider. And I want to take two of them in one player. I want to get a guard and tackle. Give me his bio that said he played guard his first two years, he got moved to tackle his senior year, something like that, because as I need him in this because I want him to play.

If he's good enough to play right now and all my other guys are good, well, then play mc guard. If he's not good enough and he needs to be a swing tackle, that's fine. So let me give me the guy that's had four years of experience and he's a guard. And I don't think that's a first round guy. I think it's more second and third, but I want some of that experience across the board. Got it all right, Let's let's watch to another topic on the offensive work.

I know what yah go to go to you know they've mentioned the Super Bowl, and as I was watching the Super Bowl game, which I hated, but I was watching the game and thinking this would be us. That's exactly what would happen to the Cowboys with the old line, especially because that's the thing is again, how long can they last during the season? Can they make it all the way to a post season to playoff games? If

we ever get there. So it's like, okay, with the old nine, what was happening with my homes and that that is just I just saw the Cowboys happening to that. And then the refs that's another whole story. But and again another thing that would happen to the Cowboys is how the revs, you know, referee that game. But that's just another thing that you do have to look at.

It's like, Okay, if we do make it that far, can you count on these guys to be there, Because if you're dealing with backup guys, how much is that really gonna help you? How far is that gonna get you passed that first playoff game or any further than that. So that's just that's a huge concern that the Cowboys

they really really need to tackle this year. Dude. I I was talking to our friend Brian brought us during the game, and I was like, can you imagine can you imagine if you got healthy seasons out of Lyell and Tyring and made it that far and then they couldn't play in the Super Bowl, Like neither one of them could play in this. I think I would throw myself from the press box. I wouldn't even I wouldn't

even want to watch. I wouldn't watch that game. It would have you ever seen a quarterback that didn't that lost a big game like that? Obviously Super Bowl didn't score a touchdown and he was awesome. Yeah, I know he had some you know, they didn't they didn't win, and hey, I'm the first guy to say, you know you can. Team doesn't win. You got to judge him

for that. I get that. And they didn't play the great but like just the arm strength that he's got on some of these plays, the awareness it was he was running for his life. But yeah, but it was he He's gonna be I mean I think he I think this was like Michael Jordan playing Lebron James when Lebron James like third year, you know, like if they ever would have played. I think it was it was like that. That's probably the way it would have gone down too. You know, just to this, this could be

two of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play. I know it's early on my homes, but it could be. Yeah, and some of them, I mean, honestly, some of the reminds me of uh, good day. I'm sorry, it just it reminded me of the O seven Finals when the forty year old Spurs full of Hall of famers just kicked Lebron's ass when he was like twenty two and just he didn't have any help on his team. Yeah, and he and I think that was the issue for Mahome Sunny. He's eat any help because he made some

throws that should have been plays. They should have been touched it. There were a couple that would drop. There were touchdowns that literally hit guys in the hands or in the face, and and they just didn't catch them right, you know. You know. And another thing we got to throw in there for talking Super Bowl, but that you know, it's all about Brady and Gronk and all that. But Bruce arians you know, I'm happy for him too, and I know, you know, he's got a granddaughter on our staff,

and then that's great. You know Pressley, but um, and she's excited for him. But like what he's able to do as a trailblazer. Look at his staff and the makeup of his staff and who and who he won with. I think this hopefully opens the doors for a lot of you know, a lot of teams, a lot of people U that haven't necessarily gotten opportunities and to win this way. I mean, it all goes to Brady, and I understand that, but I hope it's not lost on

the staff that Bruce arians put together and how they won. Yeah, I really wish a year like this is when I really wish the NFL didn't allow teams to make their head coaching hires until after the Super Bowl, because can you imagine the opportunities that you would think. You would think that a guy like Todd Bowls probably deserves after a game like that, and by the way, he's been

calling good, good games throughout his career. He's a really good defensive guy, and I think this would I think this is the kind of moment that certainly could have given him a lot of opportunities as a head coach. And we'll see how that goes next year and if he'll be a part of the mix, because it's not a guarantee that next year teams will look at him and don't and don't say that, well he's been been there and done that. Like, yeah, we got a few

that have that have done that. We know that there are other coaches that get opportunities that even after they have second an you know, a second time around, it helps. YEA. Right, We're gonna take our first break. When we come back, We're gonna talk a little bit more about the offensive line. We're gonna geto that center position because I think that's an area that we haven't talked a lot about, but I think it sare's an interesting decision the Cowboys have

to make there. We'll also talk a little bit about the tight end position when we come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Verilux for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Crisolve for freedom from glare,

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the ultimate Cowboys fan. If you joined Dallas Cowboys United presented by Globe Life starting at just twenty dollars, you can join now and get your exclusive fan pack and remember benefits. Visit Dallas Cowboys dot com Slash United for details. Welcome back. It is the second segment of The Break, presented by Geico Live from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star Wars doing our offensive review. We did

that for the last two shows. We're wrapping it up today talking about the offensive line and the tight end position. Let's move to the center position. Joe Looney and Tyler Battish were the two players that played at that position this year. I obviously Tyler was the rookie coming in that they spent a fifth round draft pick on. And then you had a who's been here for a while, been a backup most of that time, but has had

some time as a starter going into next season. Who should be the starting center for the Dallas Cowboys To start with, you, Dave, I absolutely love Joe Looney. If you follow the team by now, you know all about his personality and all of that. He's obviously he has more than delivered on what the Cowboys signed him to do. You know, they signed him as their like jumbo flex extra interior alignment and he's started multiple seasons and done so well. All of that said, they drafted Tyler Biadas.

He was impressive early. He's got higher potential than Joe Looney in my opinion. He was one of the best offensive linemen in college football. The big question with him coming out of the draft was whether he could stay healthy. I know he had injury issues last year, but those had nothing to do with the hip problems that bothered him in college. So all of that said, he's younger, he's cheaper, he's got higher upside. I'd love to bring Joe Looney back, but I absolutely think be honest should

be your you know, prohibitive starter heading into it. Amber I agree with all that. I would think that Tyler is ready to just take over. I mean, we saw him do it last year for a period of time. I absolutely love Joe Looney. I would absolutely try to maintain to keep him here, give him possibly another one

year deal. I think he's a guy that gives you that position flex, you know, with all these injuries that we keep talking about, He's a guy that can play a couple of different positions in case you need it. And again, you I mean, it's just like, what do you call that game? I can't think of the name, but basically, you're you know, you know that at one point or another, you're gonna need all your guys and

you're gonna see all these guys on the field. So you're gonna see Joe Looney if he stays here at one point or another and he has all the experience needed. So I absolutely trust him. I do hope that the Cowboys are able to get a good deal from him for another year. Nick, I thank you. I think they bring Looney back. But yeah, I think the uh idea would be to try to see if you know, be honest,

could win the job. And you know, we'll see if the draft brings anybody else that that that's got that you know, position flex or maybe you know, maybe Connor McGovern, you know that's been talked about, Connor McGovern, even Connor Williams to do some some center uh you know situations. So but I think be honest, you know, a year, he needs a year in the weight room and really gonna you know, get get get stronger, get better. But

I think, you know, his error was pointed up. I was a little surprised though that he didn't get the job back, or didn't get the job at the end of the year. So I kind of thought he might. But did you read anything into that that maybe they thought that Looney is still a better player and they felt like offensive line, a line needed the better player. Yeah, I thought I thought it was going to the to the course of like we really want to play the oddish year, and so when Looney gets hurt and he

comes back, it's gonna still be be odist. And then he beyondest got hurt, and I thought when they both got healthy again it would be but they didn't. So maybe, you know, if that's if that's the way it was, then then I do agree with both of them that they you know, you resigned Joe and just see see what happens. They'd you read something into that. Oh no, if I read I mean I guess. I mean, if you're gonna read something into it, it's that the coaches

didn't think Tyler was as good as we did. Because yeah, I haven't thought about it in a while, but I remember thinking it was weird because like, like they had sucked. I know that they were technically in the playoff race, but like play your younger players and let them get the experience. I did. I did think that was weird, But I don't make too too much of it. Like if if Joe Looney doesn't resign, I don't think that they're gonna be in a panic about not having a

starting caliber center, you know what I mean? Yeah, Amber, the way I saw it, the way I saw it, was that around that time was when the Cowboys were finally able to start seeing some consistency on the old line, And it was around that point where we talked about it.

I mean, you want to try to keep your five guys and just keep them together, because it does get tricky when you have so many moving peace and I feel like that was around the time where they were starting to kind of click a little bit, just starting to play a little bit better than what we had seen. So maybe they just wanted to keep the same pieces as as soon as they started seeing some improvement. But I don't think it was necessarily anything against be Hodest,

But that's just how I saw it. Yeah, I kind of agree with you, but I kind of think it was a thing that was more about the circumstances than it was about either one of the players, because I think, to be honest with you, I think there wasn't an appreciable difference, in my opinion between the way the two guys played. I just think that they were starting to

as a unit. They looked like they were a bit better at the time when Beast was coming back, So I think they probably just opted to stick with what they were already doing, you know. And another part of that too is that you know, without Zach Martin there, you know, like it's with with Looney, you need some veteran presence. So I think if Martin would have been there, especially been there playing right guard next to be honest, I think it probably would be a better situation that

he could keep going and growing. But but you know the fact that he wasn't there. You know, you have Steel over there. Brandon Knights played you know, twenty, you know, twelve games or so. Connor Williams has played like thirty games, and he's like the old veteran of the group. So yeah, having Looney there I do think was important for you know, established veteran. You mentioned Connor Williams. He was the only player that was projected to be a starter going into

last season. They played all sixteen games. How would you assess his play from last year? Nick, We'll start with you. Um, you know, he was the most consistent player on the team. I think he played the most stop the team. I'm sorry, let me finish. Sorry, okay, sorry, he was out well, he was out there the most. Okay, his his availability was the most. He played the snap more than any player on the team. Um, but he was. He was you know, he's up and down. I mean, he's he

want to get a little better there. At times you feel like he's not strong enough. Sometimes it feels like he's out of position. Um. You know, it's gonna be interesting next year. I do think Connor is going to start at left guard, but I don't know which one. I do think that. I do think there will be a Connor. I mean, I just I think McGovern might be better. Honestly, Okay, we're gonna have that conversation. Hold all right, but what do you think? Sorry? What was

the question? How would you evaluate Connor Williams play last season? Very simple? He was the least of my worries when he came down to the l line. I mean, he was, like Nick just mentioned, he was the most Uh, he got the most consistency out of him because he wasn't injured. You know, he did get banged up at one point in the season, but it wasn't anything major. So he was the only player that you got the most out

of from the old lineman. So that it's hard to criticize someone that was able to give you that when you got so many other issues around the whole old line. So I think that, yeah, you're looking for improvement there, but right now it's just I'm hoping to see some competition. I'm hoping to see that we are able to get a preseason this year and get good use of like really utilize those games to put those guys out there

on both sides. Put them both Connors on both sides, and see how they both perform, and just make it a good training camp competition. There's nothing wrong with that, and just see who's better, and then you make the decision from there. Dave, I think the biggest did we lose you the biggest? What? Tell you what we'll do. We're gonna come back to Dave. We'll go back, go on to the next question a half you guys and they will hit Dave. There he is, You're back, You're

the biggest. What the biggest? I don't know what happened. We heard you say the biggest. The biggest problem with Connor is I know that he's gotten stronger over the course of his NFL career, but he still hasn't developed into that super strong, anchored offensive guard that you just can't move. And so you know he gets pushed into the backfield by good defensive tackles from time to time, and it stands out. Like you know, you always say, if nobody notices you, you're doing your job well. When

you get bullied into the quarterbacks lap, sometimes people notice it. Um, that doesn't mean he had a bad season, but I guess that's probably his deficiency. I think he was fine, especially when you consider that he didn't have Tyron next to him and didn't have you know, he had a rookie playing center for a lot of the season as well. Yeah, I you know, if Connor McGovern can take that job in training camp, that's totally fine with me if you really want to, if you really want to dig deep.

You know, Nick kind of mentioned it. If you were to draft a guy like Rashaan Slater number ten overall, and Tyrant Smith is healthy, Actually think he could play a guard for a year if you wanted him too. And I know that's getting way ahead of ourselves, but I'm happy with the job Connor Williams has done, but not to the point that I think his job is

completely secure. You know, it's going to be interesting when you look at draft day here that you know here's a guy at the end of his contract one year left. I'm not saying they'll do this with him, but those are the kind of guys that maybe have a little bit of trade value if you wanted a pick, if you wanted a third round fourth rounder maybe you know, and another team's like, okay, we can we get this guy, and now we still have to sign him. But he's

a starting, capable guy. And that's just if the Cowboys know that that McGovern, you know, can compete or be better, or they've already drafted someone in the draft or whatever. But if they draft, like like Dave said, draft a guy like that, like a Slater from Northwestern, then I think you're looking at draft day and you might maybe try to move Connor. This is a contract year for him, and he's like, you know, he probably wants to start.

I mean, this is a big deal. He doesn't want to move to tackle and be a swing tackle in his contract year. You know, so unless unless one of those guys gets hurt and then he goes in there and plays and then he shows what kind of value he's got, and then you know he might actually want that, And I don't know, Yeah, I mean as I looked at Connor last year, I actually thought he was better than he was the year before, which is what you want. You want guys to develop and be better. I thought

he was better. Is he where you want to be? I don't necessarily think so, but also think that's also a function of who he had around him as well. Like you got to remember, through much of his career so far, he's had all pros around him, and last year he did not. He had he was the veteran. He was the grizzled veteran that was telling guys. You know, that was probably the one that was having to tell guys, hey, we need pay us attention to this, we need to

do this. Hey you might not want to do that, right, And so it kind of flipped a little bit. But I do think he was better than he's been. I will say this though, and it's just as a big overall thing about the Cowboys, I do think they have to, in my opinion, invest one of their top three picks on an offensive lineman, because the way I look at it is it's even it's not necessarily about this year,

although the depth is something that you absolutely need. It's about the fact that this team, if it's going to be offense driven, which it looks like it's going to be. I think when this offense functions best, and probably any offense in the league, is when your offensive line is strong.

You look at some really great quarterbacks around the league, and Russell Wilson think about what's going on right now down in in Seattle, like you got a really great quarterback that just says it throughout his career, has had issues with his offensive line being able to protect him. I think if you want to get the maximum value of your quarterback, you gotta put the offensive line in

place first and foremost. And when the Cowboys have been successful here in the last few years, it's been because their offensive line was the epicenter of everything that happened for them. So I think they got to start rebuilding that. And I think that starts with this draft and every year from here for the next couple of years, three years, I would probably be investing one those top three picks in an offensive lineman. Trying to prepare for the future.

I did have one more question I have for you guys on the offensive line before we move on to tight end. You mentioned Connor McGovern, did you think Connor McGovern showed enough to be able to possibly compete for the starting left guard spot over Connor Williams. We'll start with you Amber. Well, like I said earlier, I think that you just swave it up to training camp and hopefully some preseason games. I definitely think he showed enough to go out there and deserve a chance to compete

the first starting job. But it's it's just a tough one because we keep talking about all these guys coming back and being healthy, but you don't. It's hard to have a clear image of what you're actually gonna have on the field. So that's what I would like to see. Just see them out there and competing. Just have a legit competition during training camp and see who wins the job. But I definitely think that he has the ability to compete for that job and possibly even get it. Dave,

I'm sorry if this is boring. I just don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other. Yeah, I mean, let him go to training camp and sort it out. I would be I think Connor McGovern was good enough last year that I wouldn't you know. I think he deserves a shot at a starting job and if he can take it, that's great. But I also think Connor Williams is just fine too, So go get after it,

big guys. The only thing else I add to that is, I mean it's hard to have an old line competition, you know, like Amber said, because you want that continuity. I mean, you want to build them, especially if you're trying to play like the oddest. You want them to kind of have all that again, you got to keep rotating guys in and there. Or you could say I'm going to prepare you for the season because it's exactly what happened last year. You don't know who was playing

offensive line, you know, gained the game. But if if they think that it's not they're not gonna sign Connor Williams next year, you know, and maybe McGovern's got more upside, then I could see where it's like, if it's kind of either or, then I would probably go with McGovern and and say, all right, well he's gonna be here for the for the future a little bit. But I don't know that about Connor Williams. I mean, maybe they're

trying to work on a deal. I don't I don't know. Yeah, I would think there's another deal they could work on though, but Nicky's good to happen if they signed Connor Williams to a deal, Oh my god, right now, I don't even go there. All right, Yeah, but what're you boys saying? I was gonna say you, I mean me personally, I don't really need to see much from Sike Martin. I just needed him healthy. He can work on the sideline, work on the fans and all that. Both corners leete

and there we go. I love that idea. That's it. If anything, you're training the other guy to be a backup, and all pros don't need to play, especially when the sidelines until we get back from training camp, especially when they could just move him to tackle, and he's he looks like an all pro in there, so you know, like if he could do that, and then that means he could just sit there for a while in Oxnard. If that's where we're going, and um, you know so, yeah,

I miss it Martin. In the hyper field, we're gonna go to break. We're gonna have our final break here and I'm gonna nick might not come back. We'll see how that goes. We'll take our final break. We'll come back we'll talk a little bit about the tight end position. I'm sorry, no, we we'll talk about tight end position and then we'll get some questions that when we come right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds.

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Let's make sure you got some good opinions and question and let's jump in and let's talk a lot about the tight end position, because I think this is probably one of the most fascinating positions going into training camp and then coming out of training camp and going into the season, mainly because the Cowboys got a pleasant surprise

from Dalton Schultz this year. I don't think any of us expected him to play to the level that he did, and he played to such a level that the question becomes, do you think he has done enough to possibly even earn the starting job ahead of Blake Jarwood, who will be coming back from injury. Nicko, Let's star would even make you good? Um? I I don't know if if I expect I can answer, let me finish. I don't know if I expected that kind of season out of Jarwin.

I really didn't. What did you know if you if you would sign him and you say, Okay, he's gonna catch sixty passes and he's gonna get four or five touchdowns, and he's gonna not make the Pro Bowl, but you're gonna wonder if maybe he should have. And you're like, oh, well, that's a good year. And that's pretty much what Chultz said. And what that tells me is that when this thing's really cooking and the offensive the receivers are going and running back and all that, that that tight end's gonna

be able to make some places. I do think Jarwin gives you more down the field stuff. I mean, Schulta average is five or six yards to catch. I mean it's not much, but he was he was there, he caught the ball. Well, he has surprised me, for sure. I didn't think he. I wasn't sure he's gonna be on the team, so he surprised me. But I do think Jarwin gives you a little bit more explosiveness down the field. So you would still go back to Jarwin

as you're projected starter. Who blocks better? That's my question? Did not you have any answer for that? That's when training camp? Who blocks better? And I think it would be Jarwin. He should be taller and should give you a little bit more leverage. I don't know, Okay, Amber, Well, Jarwin husband my guy, So I would go back to him if he's healthy and back in his shape that he was before he got injured. And it was very unfortunate because I was really excited. And the tricky part is,

we know how tricky training camp is. I mean, we see some things at training camp and then the season starts and then he just disappears. Yeah, I don't I don't understand why that happens, but it happens, so to me, hopefully, I wasn't blinded by what I was seeing last year's serious training camp, but I remember being very very impressed with what Blake Jarwin was doing. I was very very excited about what he could do last year, but then he got hurt. So I'm hoping that he gets back

in there. I do think, yeah, Dalton, I mean, because he did it last year, he definitely has a chance to compete for the starting job. But at the end of the day, my own preference would be to just go back to Blake Jarwin because I've seen so much more out of him that I've liked rather than what I've seen from Dalton Schultz, although he was impressive last year, not expect Schultz to do what he was able to do at all, Dave, I didn't ride the Jarwin bandwagon

this long to hop off now. I expected a better season from Jarwin than what they got from Schultz. You know, Jarwin had or I'm sorry, Schultz had what sixty three catches for six fifteen. He averaged just under nine yards per catch. I know it's a much smaller sample size, but Blake Jarwin has flirted with twelve yards per catch over the course of his career. To Nick's point, he's a better downfield, explosive athlete. We've seen what he can

do in the seam. I think he would have had an even better season than Schultz did if he had stayed healthy. So I'm riding with him all day. And on top of that, they ran two hundred and twenty snaps of twelve personnel last year, like there is room enough for both of these guys in the offense. I don't care who is on the field for the first snap of the game, it doesn't matter. But I think that they could be a really good one two punch But Jarwin's a big part of that. That's the part

I'm not sure about. On that one two punch. I think it's a one three punch, honestly, because my number two guys got to block someone, and I don't know if both those guys out there can really block, you know, I mean, well, I think it's unfair to be able. I don't think we could judge that this year because I think there was so many problems at tackle that I couldn't really tell all the time if if if the tight end was a problem as much as the

tackle was the problem. Signing Blake Bell, I'm tell you that, But that was actually be my next question. Yeah, what what did you see from Blake Bell this year? Because I think we all expected coming in he was going to be a real, a sure black blocker for you. And and my question is did you think you got what you expected? Um? Maybe not as much, but but I think that he needs to be on the field more, and I would I'm sorry, I'm using him more. How

are you going to do that? You got all these guys that are playmakers at the wide receiver position, Who are you taking off the field? I don't know, he needs to block, but he needs to block more though I don't need all those playmakers. I wanted Zeke to run the ball and I want him to block, and I want him to have a few Gadget plays and I want him to to make I mean, that doesn't

seem to be this offense. This offense seems to be an eleven personnel offense, right, changing just do something different, change offense. You disagree with that? He agrees he wants to see more out of Blake Bell. He said it several times. No, I absolutely, I mean, I want Blake Bell to be yardage and I if they want to resign him, that's absolutely fine. But like, I don't want to be part of conversations about blocking tight ends. Get

no way. I'm no, I'm here to throw them. I'm here to wing it around the yard, score forty points a game. I want two tight ends to have fifty catches and five touchdowns each. I want eleven personnel like seventy five percent of the time. Kind of like talk about that. No, I'm with you on that. I actually agree with calling that day. I'm yeah, oh no, why because the past interference penalties call in the end zone that puts you on the one, winging it around the yard.

It sounds really good, but sometimes there's nut cutting time and you've got to push someone back up the one yard line and these tight ends, and this offensive line doesn't do it. So just give me the ability to do a little bit of both. I get it, that's not the bread and butter of what they do. But at times, don't tell me they can block because it's a te on their name. That doesn't mean that they're tough and they can block. I want to. I want

somebody that can do that. No, I get that, But I also think if your offensive line is doing their jobs, then when you get on the one yard line, run behind Tyren Smith, run behind Zack Marden like you don't necessarily need to run like out there by that tight end. And by the way, there's a lot of creative things you can do where you don't necessarily have to run the ball, but you can have safer plays that still

can get you into the end zone. All I'm saying is I'm a lot less worried about that about what they do on the one yard line. If this offensive line can do its job, which again we've already talked about it, that's all the matter of them staying healthy. If they're healthy, I think they can do it. If

they're not healthy, then you gotta crap you. And you know what, if you're not going to get a blocking tight end, it's fine, But can we act like it's nineteen fifty six and can we get a fullback again? You need one of them, is what you're saying. He needs something, Give me one somebody to block amber. What are your thoughts on this? Well, I'm no coach and I certainly have never played football, but is this so hard to train a tight end to learn how to

blog better? I mean, why can't you just get a little bit of both out of them? Like? Why does it have to be one way or the other? Do you guys have an answer for that? Because I don't know. I mean, the short answer is college football programs don't play that style of football, and the vast majority of tight ends just don't really learn how to do it.

And for that matter, you know, to get downfield the way that a lot of passing offenses want you to, you need to be slimmer than the two hundred and sixty pound tight ends of your So, I mean that's the short answer, this is tricky. I guess I don't. I didn't have a huge problem with the tight end position overall last year. I don't think it would be. It's not really a concern of mind going into this year. I'm fine with Blake Bell, but I saw it last year.

I mean there were times where they were using Tony Polar to block poor Polor was just getting thrown away like up in the air, also Zeke at times. I mean, it happens with also a lot of these guys. So it's just gonna happen at times and you just gotta deal with it. But overall, I think that the least of my problems or concerns is the tight end position. I'm hoping with Blake Jarwin back, everything's it's gonna be better. But just overall, I think that I'm okay with what

Blake Bell did. And it's just kind of pick your weapons, you know, pick your weapons on how you're gonna play, and you can't win. You can have all your weapons out there at once, so it just depends on how you're wanting to play football, all right. I would just like Dave I as a closing thought, and Derek, I think You're absolutely right, Like, if the offensive line is healthy and available, that should be all that I need.

But I'm also paying the battering ram running back fifteen million dollars a year if the if the offense line is healthy and doing its job, Zeke, go bully somebody into the end zone. Like, we're not scoring touchdowns with a fifteen million dollars running back because the third tight ends not blocking? Right? Gross? Yes, no, go run somebody over and score or else? What are we paying you for? I think it's fair, right, I mean, yeah, yeah, that's fair.

That's fair. If we're talking about running back. What day we're talking about running back? Because yeah, that's fair. I thought we were talking about tight end. No, I get you need a whole show for them. No, well, I mean we did, and we talked about running back, and I think we all agreed that all though Zeke is still a premier running back, Zeke's got to be better, right for what the funny he's baking, He's gotta be bad.

He's gotta be better. And I think that's a that's a completely different starting with holding on with the ball, holding on to the ball. But what I'm just saying is is that if I've got three tight ends out here, and and they're they're Dalton Schultz, and they're Sean McEwan, and there Blake Jarwin, I don't think anybody anybody's blocking anybody. So a thirteen personnel or a twelve personnel, I mean, like, give me some more creativity than that. Figure out a way.

If if Kellen Moore's the boy genius, then figure out a way. Give me Antoine Woods, give me the deefense, give me something else that can go some beefier packages. Figure out a way somehow to do. And to be honest, that's kind of how I think about it is. I'm not so concerned about them making sure that the third tight end is there for you to block. Find somebody though, whether you go to full beck, whether you take a

defensive player, whether you take an additional offensive lineman. When you get in those situations, whatever it is, you seem to figure out something to give you that kind of beef when you need to pound the ball for yard. But when they draft Kyle Pitts at number ten, what happens then? Can we score fifty points a game? All right? But let's get to some questions we got about seven minutes left in the show. Let's get some questions here.

They're doing this well. You mentioned the draft, and I got this guy asking a question about what position group for the defense do you think will have the most immediate impact through the draft. I mean, the easy, obvious answer is probably cornerback because right now, and I mean it's going to change when free agency starts, but you don't have any and it's a very good if I had to lay money on who they were going to draft at ten, the overwhelming favorite should be cornerback because

there's two very good ones. One of them will definitely be there and he should be a day one starter. So that's the easy answer. And I love the idea of pairing him up with Diggs. I think you might be able to hit on something where you got yourself a pair of cornerbacks that you can just ride for the next four or five years and just see where it goes. Like that might be the beginning of you kind of rebuilding your defense. Yeah, I mean, I think you know they're both both the two he's talking about

Farley and certain I mean, they're both good. But you know I know this that there's no a bunch of five stars guys at Virginia Tech on the defensive line, you know, And so that's what I wonder. I wonder about maybe Farley, I mean, maybe he might be even better just because you know, he's playing the number one receiver every time out and he's not getting you know, the path rush and all that. But if that didn't play fifteen years in the league either, So I don't know,

maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't, but they help. Yeah, either way, I think it's going to be better than Anthony Brown. I'm sorry. I meant Anthony Brown and Jordan Lewis and you know, Cheeto or who actually hope they bring Jordan back though I think it. Jordan still fits, and I think you'd be a nice compliment if you had. Let's say, you got that draft pick and you put him with Digs and Jordan is your your nickel guy.

I like that. I like that a lot. As your three cornerbacks that you're running out day one, I like, yeah, me too. So your QB four or I mean, your your fourth cornerback's gonna be making five million a year or were cutting Anthony Brown. I don't know, you know, I have a hard time really understanding what I think of Anthony Brown, because I don't think he's a bad cornerback.

I just think he's kind of just a guy. If that's you know, if that's okay, and and and by the way, you need some of those guys on your team. Everybody can't be a high draft pick. Everybody can't be a high price free agent. I get that. Yeah, you're right,

I'm sorry, No, go ahead. I was just laughing because if Jordan Lewis's agent is watching this, you know, or why or other you know, people talk about it, like think about what Jordan and Cheetoh are gonna get in the open market, because Jordan might get more, might get that contracted Anthony Brown gott and Cheeto's definitely gonna try to get that either way more than that. So I don't even know if they did come back. I mean, you think you think Cheeto can really command that kind

of money Anthony Brown money, Well, yeah, I guess that should. Yeah, I think he can't. I think I think I think he's gonna get cheetouous money. You do, I think you're gonna kind of laugh, but like, yeah, I think he's gonna get some money. What makes you think that just because it's cornerback. Yeah, and he's made some plays in twenty five mile an hour running and all that kind of stuff. I think it all come back. And then

they got the size. Sorry, Nick, now go ahead. He's got the size that people He's got the size that people covet. He's athletic as hell. He's started many many games in the NFL, and that's all he needs. Yeah. I agree with Nick, and I mean, you know not. I think we all think the world of Anthony Hitchins. He was a good player here. Anthony Hitchins was a good player. But you when you saw the deal Kansas City gave him, you were like, WHOA, Okay, Kansas City

have fun. And that's I think something similar might happen with Cheeto. But he was a better player, not a bad player. He was a better player here though than Cheeto has been. Right. Yeah, but Cheeto plays a more important position. True. I'm not saying he's I'm not saying he's gonna get a Hitchins contract, I think, but I think he will get it. I will not be surprised if he signs a deal that kind of makes you raise your eye propose, Okay, So let me throw this

question back to you. If you just ran down all the things of why a team would want to pay Cheeto that money, should the Cowboys be considering maybe they should pay a d an amount of money for him because of all those things you just mentioned. No, no, But Derek, we see this all every year. We see this happen where we see a guy differently and then they go out in the open market and they get a ton of money, a lot more money than what

the Cowboys could have offered them. And the thing is a lot of people think, oh, my coach, my staff can make this player better. So when you're looking at videos and these players you always have as a coach and recruiting staff, I feel like you always have that mentality that you see the talent and you just have that itch that you think that if they come work with you, you're gonna be able to make that player better.

In at times, we've seen that happen with a lot of players that have left the Cowboys, that they go and hine at other teams. So I think that's just one of the things that you have to look at why another team would see them more valuable than what the Cowboys see them. I think I think he needs a fresh start, and I think, you know, not to steal online from a former co worker, but you know, I think you could argue that he had a foot

in the parking lot anyways. Yeah, I mean he was already kind of thinking about contract looking in that way, and you know, this is a big year for him. The second contract is a big year for every NFL player, and I think he's gonna get it. I think he's gonna go, and I think he probably needs to go to another team and he might be really good. I don't know if he'll be really good, but I think he'll be serviceable. I'll throughout Damien Wilson as an example.

Damian Wilson has been a good player for Kansas City. I don't think he was that with the Cowboys, and I don't think the Cowboys like when he signed somewhere else. I don't think the Cowboys are really heartbroken about it. But he's been a good player. He's been a better player there than he was or so it happens. It absolutely happens. Scheme, which I actually I thought about that this morning while I was out on a run, because

somebody somebody tweeted me this morning, Thank you, Dare. Somebody tweeted me this morning talking about, you know, they need to get rid of Will because his last few drafts have been like super bad, and I was kind of

thinking about that. I'm like, well, first of all, that's that's just not true, right, But then you know, the twenty seven, the twenty seventeen draft, I think you probably have you you absolutely have to chalk it up as a as a disappointment at this point, Taco was a bust um, you know you you like most of those guys are not going to be here long term, but I think there's room for nuance there. Like was Cheeto

a woozier. Let's just assume he doesn't come back like was he a bust No, Probably like a slight disappointment, but not everybody's gonna be a bonanza pick that you pay a second contract too. It's just it's too hard. It doesn't work that way. So if you get four years of service out of Cheeto, like I said, it's disappointing he didn't do more in the four years he was here. But I don't consider him a bust y'all. Like I don't consider that a bust of a pick. No,

don't mean a guy that starts and plays. And no, he got hurt some and you know, he wasn't as good as you wanted him to. Want he didn't get as many interceptions as you wanted him to. But no, I don't like we said like when we started the show, it's not one way or the other. I mean, it's not like he was an all world or the worst.

I mean he's in between. And by the way, you got to be real careful, real careful, all caution fans, real careful with assigning too much praise or too much blame to Will or anybody else in the front office with regards to draft picks, because what you don't know is who is really behind that pick. You know, some of the things we've heard, there have been times that picks have been made because a coach was really, really pushing hard and that was the voice that really convinced

the powers that be to make a decision. And so I think you got to be really careful. It's not like a typical A typical team kind of runs their thing like when you have the GM, and ultimately the GM is the one that makes decision, and by the way, that probably is the case here, but the GM ain't will right, Will's not making the final decision, So I think you have to be real careful with that when you start kind of figuring out who to places blame

and by the way, who also to give credit. You kind of have to do it as a team and either as a team they did well or as a team they didn't do well. Yep. I just think it's and I know, I know we gotta go, but I just I'm that's an interesting thing. And Anthony Hitchins and Damian Wilson are great examples, Like not everybody's gonna be a bust of a bad player, and not everybody's gonna be a cornerstone that you can pay big money to.

Some guys you just draft, thank you for your service, and move on and we hope the best for you. And like, I don't think the Cowboys are dumb for not resigning Anthony Hitchins or Damian Wilson. Honestly, like that, I don't think those would have been good free like money allocations and if Cheeto a Woozier can get ten million dollars a year on the open market, I don't think it would be smart for the Cowboys to try

to match that either. And sometimes you just gotta say thanks for your time and we'll have the good memories and draft the next guy. Yep, all right, we appreciate you guys. Dennis. We'll be back on next Wednesday. We'll talk about the defense. We're gonna flip this conversation over the defensive side of the ball. There are are so many topics to hit on that side of the ball, so we'll do that next week. Till then. For Nick Eatman,

Dave Hellman, Amber Garcia, I am Derek Eagleton. This has been The Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.