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Cowboys Let's go. Are you ready for a break?
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It's time for the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We were right with Mbar Garcia, Brian brought us Patrick Walker and Derek Eagleton.
It is Wednesday, June fifth, twenty twenty four, Season twenty.
Episode nine.
Welcome into the Break, presented by LG. I'm Nicole Hutcheson alongside Brian brought.
Us in Patrick No C. Walker.
By the way, I was seven years old when this show is.
How are we starting? Oh yeah, we're just going to jump right into jump right.
Hey man, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I got an old seasoned how y'all doing? It's my first time. I want to show with you all.
I'll tell you what excited.
Yeah, we got the uh yeah, we got the word that you're coming on board.
So nice to have you.
Nice to have you guys here with me as well.
But a lot of things to talk about, obviously, ceedee lamb uh. The topic of discussion not at mini camp missing mandatory mini camp obviously awaiting a contract, a big contract as we can expect, and we know that Jerry Jones said that, you know the leaves, he was waiting for the leaves to fall. Well, another leaf, big leaf fell with Justin Jefferson's contract and one hundred and ten million, four years guaranteed eighty eight million upfront, averaging thirty five
million per year. I mean, guys, I've got to ask with this one. I mean, how urgent is this contract now?
Considering the things?
Well, it's the red wood tree is falling is what basically has occurred. But up to this point, the reason discussions between Ceedee Lamb and the organization has stalled is because a number hadn't been put out there yet. It was kind of like what Brian said a couple episodes ago in that these agents they know each other well and they play they use it to play the market in.
Each other's favor.
So Justin Jefferson's agents waiting for Ceedee Lamb to get done. Ceedee Lamb is waiting for Justin Jefferson to get done. You got Jamar Chase in the mix, and then to a lesser degree, you got guys like t Higgins and those guys out in San Francisco. But with Justin Jefferson landon, now the mark has been set right. So now if you're a CD Lamb's agent, now you can go to Stephen Jones, Jerry Jones and you can say this is the number, here's where we're going to start this conversation,
and that should expedite things at this point. That combined with the fact that Ceedee Lamb's absence is drawing him fines from being absent from mini camp. So I think that this week, with Justin Jefferson's deal landing, I think that puts a lot of fire to get this deal done.
Yeah, you know, and that's a legitimate number, thirty five million dollars.
I was asking around the league and when you talk about.
The other wide receivers, you know Hill and guys like that there, but you're you know, saying, oh, well, this is thety million dollar receiver. You know, the cap guys are all telling me, No, that's a twenty four million dollar deal. No, that's a twenty seven million dollar deal. You just got to look at the back end of these contracts and see, you know where that number is. And I asked about this one. I said, is this one of those contracts that thirty five million is not
the legitimate number? And my guy goes, oh, no, that's a legitimate number right there. So that's where you're going to start playing. And I think the thing that we have to know is that my experience with the Joneses is that when you negotiate with the Joneses, if you don't try and reset the market, you tend to do a little bit better. You know, they they'll get you close, and you know, CD will argue, well, hey, you know justin Jefferson, one of the best. Look at the numbers,
look at the comparisons and all that. But you know, if you look at how Diggs this deal got done, it wasn't the one that reset the cornerback market. Put him in the ballpark where it wasn't very to call the role. Wasn't a lot of guys to call the It was a few guys, but he was right in that group right there. And I think the Joneses understand that part of it. They don't want to reset the market. They've done some resetting markets before with if you look at Ezekiel Elliott and.
Some things like that.
But they're more likely to get a deal done if you come in at or slightly below. And you know, if you're Ceedee Lamb, making thirty three thirty four million dollars a year is as a pretty significant jump for him, and it puts him in that conversation, you know. I mean, and there's a lot of pride with these guys, the highest paid guy and all that. But you know, sometimes you've got to be able to read the room. And I think that's what Ceedee Lamb and his his agent
need to do. Read the room, kind of look at some previous contracts that have been done here and it'll probably give you a better understanding of how you need to operate to get this thing done.
Well.
I do believe that the Cowboys are on making the deal comparable.
Yeah.
Absolutely always been averse to setting the market. They've not always been able to avoid doing so. Ezekiel Elliot, Dak Prescott, Dak Prescott likely again here soon, but it'll be interesting to see where they split the baby. For lack of a better way to put it is, are you looking at Ceedy Lamb. Maybe he comes in at an aas average annual salary of thirty six which puts him over Justin Jefferson, but maybe the guaranteed is one oh eight
one O nine, one O five something like that. Or in verse, maybe they give him, you know, one hundred and eleven million guaranteed, but the average annual is like thirty four something like that. So it'll be interesting. But this Justin Jefferson deal is going to be the catalyst to this deal getting done here soon.
For the numbers that Ceedee Lamb did put up in twenty twenty three, what's what's the number that you guys feel is realistic for CD to receive.
For me, as long as it's comparable, I think that there there's an argument to be made for ceed Lamb being the best wide receiver in the league. There's also an argument for Justin Jefferson to be, you know, argued as the best wide receiver in the league. And because of that, for me, it's always been over thirty.
So it's never been under thirty.
So for those that have having that conversation, oh, we don't want to pay the wide receiver thirty outside of the building conversations, you've not been paying attention to the market, right, So it's always been over thirty Stephen Jones basically said that during his draft press conferences. But now that we know Justin Jefferson is mid thirties, and honestly, that's a little bit surprising because I thought Justin Jefferson would land a little bit closer to forty.
So the fact that.
He came in at thirty five, I'm completely comfortable with Ceede Lamb at thirty five or even thirty six. It's more so, especially in the NFL, it's about the guaranteed money more than it is the max contract value, because, as we well know, in this industry, in this particular sport, you might not play out your entire contract. So it's about getting as much guaranteed money as you can.
Yeah, a couple of things are really kind of dangerous here for the Vikings, and maybe a positive as well, dealing with a rookie contract with JJ McCarthy. So now they're not paying their quarterback fifty million dollars, you know, So that's a little bit easier for them to swallow. The thing about it now is will Justin Jefferson's numbers
go south because of a rookie quarterback in development? There at least the first couple of years of the deal until maybe JJ McCarthy figures things out, maybe JJ McCarthy doesn't figure it out at all, And now all of a sudden, you've got a quarter a wide receiver that's making thirty five million dollars a year and his numbers go from one hundred and twelve receptions to seventy six because you have a quarterback that's not able to get
him the ball with any consistency because he's learning. The one advantage that Ceedee Lamb does have is, at least for one more season, is Dak Prescott throwing him the football. You know those will be Ceedee Lamb is the one guy when you always in front offices, you always worry about these contracts and you're worried, like, well, the guy live up to the contract.
I see Ceedee Lamb living up to his contract. There's not a.
Lot of guys I can say that about. But he has gotten better every year that he's played in this league. So to me, there's some justification for paying this guy what he deserves because every year he has gotten better.
And to kind of piggyback off of that, something that all of the guys have said with Michael McCarthy. Being under the system calling the plays one more year and having already done it before, it's really helped, and I feel like they're a lot more confident and being under that system already.
But I'm sorry, Patrick, I didn't mean.
To cut you offly, No, no, Yeah, that was.
Just something that just kind of piggyback of what Brian said.
Yeah, what I was going to also add is the intangible of the chemistry between Dak Prescott and Ceedee Lamb. How does that, how does one and how will one contract play into the expediency of the other one getting done. So, assuming Ceedee Lamb's get gets done first for obvious reasons, because Ceedee Lamb isn't in a situation where a rookie
quarterback is coming in, this chemistry is already established. The Cowboys have hard data, hard evidence to say, if you want Ceedee Lamb to continue playing at the level that you just saw him playing at, you have the quarterback in the building to continue to do that going into
the future. So once Ceedee Lambs deal gets done, presumably it will here soon in the next few weeks, maybe in the next few days, maybe today, who knows, Then the Cowboys then have to look at Ceede lamb AND's and Dak Prescott and say, hey, we don't want to break up this tandem because we know how dynamic this can be. So I really think that one plays into the other favorably.
And also to make sure that everyone understands he has been engaged.
Michae McCarthy didn't.
Use that word. He's the worst.
He's that word in the press conference multiple times. He has been engaged.
He has been in contact with the coaches. So no concerns there. But do you feel like there's a little bit of cohesion? I guess issues that will are concerned about the cohesion as far as the other guys, and like Jalen Brooks, maybe a Jaalen Tolber, do you feel like there's anything there?
No, No, I.
Don't think so.
Yeah.
The thing the thing that's interesting about the you talk about Lamb holding out though, and and the cohesion and stuff.
He's seen this done before.
If you look at and in a and if you look at previous we call them holdouts. But guys that don't show up. You've seen it with Ezekiel Elliott saw it was Zach Martin with her own eyes last year, We're all at training camp kind of waiting. We're watching the we're watching the right tackle, the right guard spot. We're going, well, looks kind of bad out there without Zach Martin playing right guard.
You know.
And so and I think the Cowboys are you know, their eyes aren't lying. We were watching the same thing. And so now you're you're sitting there and they've they've, they've had a they've had a history. And I hate to use the word cave, and it's not cave. It's okay, let's do this, let's come to this, let's do this now. And so his strategy is a proven one when you deal with the front office of the Dallas Cowboys. And I mean that in no disrespect, but agents, look at this.
Look at Dak Prescott's he's he's totally comfortable right now of you know, like I've seen this done before. I've they've they've, they've you know, they they they maybe wait a little bit, but at the end of the day, he got maybe twenty more million dollars than he would have got if he would have signed. So being patient against this front office and a meanness and no disrespect generally will reward you. Yeah, and so I understand his strategy, I really really do.
Yeah, And when it comes to the cohesion part of it, I don't see this as being an issue at all because not only has Ceedee Lamb remained engaged, that's the key word, this entire time, he's also been in contact with his guys Dak Prescott and these wide receivers outside of the building as far as you know, workouts and things like that.
And keep in mind, these guys do a lot of work in the dockyard.
Is well dockyard, Yeah, right, so you know, as far as chemistry and cohesion, that's not going anywhere. That's not going to be a big thing. The only thing that it the only instance that it would be become an issue issue being used very lightly. Here is a rookie like Ryan Floorinoy who wants to get with Ceedee Lamb as quickly as possible. But until Lamb gets here gets what he gets to attach himself to, guys like Brandon Cooks gets to attach himself to you know, Jalen Brooks
and Jalen Tobert and guys who've already been here. So when Ceedee Lamb does come in the building, also keeping in mind that not only is he the definitive leader of that wide receiver room, but this is the same offense so much.
Yeah, that would be the issue.
Yeah, if this was, if this was what we're with, if Ceedee Lamb was a defensive player, you know now now, yeah, Well, the thing with michaeh and I've learned this and I know you, I know you'll probably get into this that the thing about with Michael.
We'll do that later, but right now, finish the sink.
The fact that it's the same offense and the same the same scheme and same ideas and same coaches and all that, that's a totally different thing on the defensive side of the ball, No, for sure.
And I think it also kind of helps, kind of going back to Patrick's point, helps Jalen Brooks, Jalen Tolbert.
Get first team reps and patches.
How much do you feel like that kind of benefits them?
Though?
From y'all's points, huge, it's huge.
Obviously the Cowboys would love Ceede Lamb to here in the building taking these reps. That goes without saying, but the silver lining to him not being here also knowing that he's still preparing outside of the building. He's still engaged with his coaches, his players, his quarterback. It also gives you the opportunity to look at Jaylen Tobin and say, you know what, we just moved on from Michael Gallup. So here's some more reps for you. Let's see what
you can do. Jalen Brooks of former seventh round pick going in the year two. You did some good things when given an opportunity last year. Let's get you some first team reps. And that started as recently as OTA's and continued in yesterday's first A mini camp on first team. So you saw those guys getting reps. But that also
elevates because of rising tide. Right, So a rookie like Ryan Floyd Noy, who might more so be relegated to third team on the outset, now he gets elevated to doing some second team reps with Cooper Rush and Trey Lance. So I mean, until Ceedeelamb gets in the building, these young men have to take advantage of these extra opportunities.
I think you're seeing example too, you know, with like you say, the various receivers, it appears to me that they're trying to get a lot more of these guys is involved in trying to figure out some some some scheme things that they can do with the you know, because they they've got they've got a bunch of talented guys. It's just a matter of Okay, who fits in this role here? You know, we go eleven personnel, who's the slot, who's the outside guy? Who?
You know? So it does.
It gives guys a lot of opportunity. Turpin was a guy yesterday. That Turpin was.
A guy, you know.
And and I hope I'm not giving government secrets here away.
I mean, sometimes you have to.
You have to. You have to be careful because you can only shoot it during period one or period three, not period five or period six. But they go third and one right off the jump, and I'm not going to tell you how they did it, but they first two plays at third and one short yards where they do they get the ball to Turpin? You know, And so you know, that's one of those things where you're like, oh, okay.
Got a lot of burn, a lot of targets in there.
Sure days as well, Sure did perfect example of not being in the building. Let's see what Turpin can do in different situations, in different schematics. So Turpin is definitely someone to keep an eye on, not just as Ceede Lamb is absent, but even when Ceede Lamb comes back, because the way Urpin is showing up, I mean he's He's really showing up with these catches. I've not seen a drop yet from Cavante Turping. His routes are as crisp as I've ever seen, and his confidence in sky high.
So when you talk about duce Vaughn starting to get some reps at slot, Jalen Toberts and the Jalen brooks Is of the world and even Ryan Floydnois, they're going to have their hands full with keeping Cavante Turpin off of their field on offense.
Yeah, and Turpin, obviously, you saw his time on offense offensive snaps kind of diminished a little bit towards the end of the season in twenty twenty three, but I'm expecting to see a lot from him. But Deuce Vaughn taking some reps of the slot, I mean, realistically, do you feel like we may see a little bit of that in the season.
Dan, I worry about things like this, and I tell you why I worry, because now they're hunting a position. They could sell it as being versatile, but anytime that you continually try, and you know, like if he if he was really a things were working out for him really well at running back, they wouldn't move him to the slot receiver. And I noticed it last week when we were watching practice. I'm sitting there with Jane Slater and I'm going, h, Deuce is standing with the wide receivers.
Here is they're going on the field, off and on the field. He's not standing with the running back group. He's standing with the wide receivers. And then you know, she asked the question. A lot of people asked the question afterwards, and then he gave us the Cole Beasley line and stuff like that. I, as a personal guy, would worry because then the coaches are telling me, this guy we brought in, I don't have a real plan
for him right now at running back. So I'm going to try and find something else for him to do and hopefully it works out for him. Hopefully that part of it works out, because there was a fourth and two play last week and Cooper rushed threw him a little out route there and he got the first down. So maybe there are some things that they could do, but man, he is going to have to play special teams.
He's gonna have when they dress forty eight. This isn't like Kansas State where they dress seventy you know, play football. They're just forty eight here in this league, and to be one of the forty eight, you got to be bringing some plays to the game.
They're doing what we have kind of been pounding the table this offseason for them to do, which is trying to figure out a role for Douce Vaughan, trying to have to keep him on this roster. Yeah, but it is concerning, like Brian said, because if you look at other names from other positions, Isaac allacol Right didn't work out offensive line, they tried him at the defensive line. Josh Ball didn't work out at the edge, that they
moving him to the inside. When they when you get your position changed, it's kind of indicative of you not succeeding quickly enough in the position that they drafted you in or signed you in.
So when we look.
At another guy, to me, I keep watching Golston play tackle in and tackle and I'm like, you know, when you don't have one spot and I'm sorry I completely interrupted you there, but.
It was just when you when you don't.
They did it with Tyrone Crawford too, during the Rod muyn Ellie administrator up down with yeah it also he's playing three.
Oh, he's a great three.
No, we need him in now, you know, and now and now he's out of the league, and you're like going, wow, that was kind of a waste. You look at somebody's the mccualmu nishn Wright, these guys safety corner slot where and then they're not playing anywhere and you're like going, okay, well there was another another one of those. But when you get to this point where you're trying to move guys around, you don't have a spot for him right now.
And here's what makes it a bit more concerning if you're looking at it from a Deuce Vaughan perspective, is that the running backs room is stacked with bodies. Okay, so they're trying to figure out if you can contribute in the wide receiver's room. But the wide receiver's room is even more stacked with bodies. And you just finished talking about Cavante and now you know that CD can play all three positions. In Jalen Tolbert Cooks, Cooks of Jalen Brooks. He can operate out of the slot as well.
My point being, the path doesn't get any easier as a wide receiver. So if you're duce Von, you're really gonna have to start showing something either or running back or as a wide receiver. But to Brian's point, you also have to figure out how to carve out some reps on special teams. You're gonna have to figure that out.
Now.
Maybe the way the new kickoff rules are set up, typically you want some big about, you want some linebackers and stuff like that. But figure out how to get Ducevon involved in two facets of the game to get the value there. But what might also work in his favor is there's chemistry coming in by the way of Cooper bb Right, the former Kansas state lineman.
Who has blocked for Duzvon.
So maybe that familiarity in that chemistry will help him from a running back position. But the thing with jus Von is right now they're trying to figure out how to get him into space.
I've got I've got a question for both you and I know you probably got to take a break, so I don't.
Want to know if I don't go for it. Think the third running back is on this team currently as we speak, but.
He's a full back.
Oh yeah, But I just I like the way they I.
Think you're going to carry four. I think you're gonna carry for because that means you're probably gonna carry. Now, you got to think about these tight ends. You talked about a stacked room.
When you're dealing with numbers.
Okay, if you consider Hunter Lipkey is on this team, don't consider the third running back. You probably I don't know if they'll I don't think they'll cut I don't think they'll cut Zeke. I don't And I think Rico. I think Rico's Yeah, But is the third running back on this currently on this team, I think, and I
just say the third guy. It doesn't have to be the third special teams, but just the guy, you think, do you think because we I don't know if the starting running backs on this team, I don't know that.
I think they're opening.
I think they're open to the reality that the third running back may not be on the team right now as we enter a training camp. But I don't foresee them making any moves prior to training camp to you add to that position because they want to see what Royce Freeman looks like versus Snoop Connor looks like at RB three, And assuming that you pull Hunter lip Key out and you drop him in his own bucket at full back, because I do believe he's made the team,
he's going to be on. Yeah, and they're just going to let the thing play out in training camp. But I really believe in my heart of hearts that if things don't start shaking out the way they want in training camp, then before the regular season kicks.
Off, I totally agree with that.
I think it'll be interesting to see how, you know, how McCarthy used the running backs the wide receivers in the past. In the running back game, I think that it'll be interesting to see if you know, maybe he uses more of turpin coming out of the backfield, maybe use I don't know, Ceedee Lamb like he did a few times last year. So I think that if they don't find the running back number three, then you've got to just be creative with the guys that you already have at receiver.
True problem being is that while Ceedee Lamb was very effective being used as a running back. Cavante Turpin was not necessarily so it could break left where it could break right in that capacity, So.
You don't want to have to.
It's fine if it's a special package that you pull out every once in a while and you say, hey, we're gonna, you know, throw curveball to the defense. Ceed Lamb. This is going to be your handoff. Gavante Turpin, this is going to be your handoff. That's much different than saying we are so deficient at running back that we're going to consistently go into every game with the game plan of using a wide receiver as kind of a third running back.
That's not what you want to do, all right, Well, we are just getting started with things here. On the break we've touched on wide receiver CD Lamb is obviously not present, but Michael Parsons is.
We'll be breaking that down coming.
Up in the next break you're watching the Cowboys break will be right back.
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The Star District has a lot of Star restaurants for the Cowboys have their Star pass rust back here in the Star somebody, but no, I.
Mean he was not.
He did not attend OTAs, but he is very present at many e mandatory mini camp. But you just got to pose this question first. You know, how big is it having Michael Parsons back in this building.
It's big because you know, speaking for myself, I wanted him in the building prior to now.
And I get it. What do voluntarily mean? Shouts out to Hambrick, I get it.
That being said, unlike Ceedee Lamb's side of the ball, the defense has a massive tectonic shift happening. You know, from Dan Quinn's regime going to Mike Zimmers regime, you have coaching turnover at almost every level of the defensive coaching staff and in addition to that, obviously you have the rookies coming in that you want to, you know, try to get him mentoring and things like that, so much more to figure out on the defense side of
the ball. I would have loved to see Micah here prior to mandatory mini camp, but that was then.
This is now.
He is in the building, he's on the field effective yesterday. So it's big because it'll help him immediately. And we'll talk about this in a second. Immediately get to work with Mike Zimmer and figuring out what his role is going to be.
In twenty twenty four.
What about you, Brian?
Yeah, you know, this is something I've said on a couple of different platforms now and I believe this. And I'd be interested if you probably pulled Mike aside and put your arm around him and just had a conversation with him. I'd like to ask him. You hate classroom football, doesn't you? You hate being in the classroom and talking about football. Love to play the game, You love to be on the field, love to rush the passer. You're one of the best pass rushers I think I've seen.
I've been around the Reggie Whites and guys like that. I've been around some great pass rushers. You're one of the best I've seen. But you hate classroom football, don't you. I bet you he would tell me he does. I think Michah Parsons doesn't like the ota aspects of classroom football.
You know, he's talking about taking care of his body and stuff like that, which he does, and he talks about, but you don't go out and wrestle sumo people, you know, and potentially he described it as potentially concussion every time you butted heads with those guys. How about blowing out an achilles trying to keep a three hundred and twenty pound man from moving you right, that things, Micah's going to do what Michah wants to do. Micah hates being
in the classroom. The coaches will tell you, Michael will bounce from classroom to classroom. He'll show up in the wide receiver room, show up in the running back room, show up at the quarterbacks. You know, Micah loves rushing the passer.
Michael didn't want to be an off ball linebacker. You have to study, have to figure those things out, have to watch tape. Look what the great ones did.
The dat wins the dexter Kochi's the guys that came before him, those guys that I've been around, had to study. Sean Lee, God, dang, you had to study. You have to sit there and all day and watch film. Leyton vander Esh have to sit there and watch film all day to be good at this rushing the pastor's mom and dad. That's a God given talent right there, you know. And I think Michaeh. Parsons he just I wish he'd just honestly saying he's been real honest what she just honestly say?
I hate the classroom aspect of football. He's That's why I don't like OTAs.
He's really he's more than hinting at it. I mean, he's he's almost there. That's the one to say that directly.
I know we're going to play some sound quotes, but something yesterday that he said that I put in the story on the dot com quote it's hard for it's hard to coach someone without pads or true contact and hand points. It's not even realistic when you can't touch each other without losing a draft pick.
It's outrageous.
That tells you that he's frustrated with the ota portion of it, where it's just showing up, walking through, sitting in the meeting room, not being able to put your hands.
On people play football.
He wants to play football, So to Brian's point, he's that kind of a football player.
Yeah, And also to Brian's point, he said, Michael is gonna do what Michael wants to do.
He made that very clear on the press conference. Yes, and third person, let's go ahead take a listen to what he had to say.
The more years you haven't, the more you understand that there's also like the business side to it, and uh, you know, whether they like it or not, there's rookies or people. I can't with it, not even here anymore, you know. And I think that's what camps for. I mean, there was a time where Aaron Donald even go to camp and he won Defensive Player of the Year and he realized team in the playoffs, like are we forgetting these times? Like he wasn't talking about the best defensive player,
wasn't even in camp. And we're in many camp a voluntary at that, so you know, camp would say something that's mandatory. So I'm just looking at a time from my body to hell. I'm playing on my undersized rusher who's gets banged up every year. So I'm just letting my body here. I'm just trying to grow, strengthen and really just get ready.
For the year in the sumo guys in Tokyo.
What's else on that he is?
Yeah? He You know what?
This is the line nicle that you have to walk when you're in a front office or is it on a coaching staff?
Star players?
Yep.
Jimmy Johnson, legendary coach Dallas Cowboys, said this, and he star players are treated differently.
You know.
You understand, Hey, a star player, you're going to do it this way. Player forty eight, he's going to get treated this way. And Michael Parsons knows that, you know, and does Mike Zimmer, Mike Mike McCarthy. Last week for you guys in the media was kind of hinting like, hey, I'm not happy. I understand. I'm not happy, you know, and you know you want all your guys to be here. I mean, look at the attendance that they had. They you know, there's a couple of guys that had to
make business decisions. But as a coaching staff in the front office. You have to be very careful walking that line with your star players because you don't don't want to be the guy or gal that says something that completely just ticks them off away from what you're trying to do. And it's and it's a it's a tough tough thing to be in because you do you have to walk that line and the players, because their stars
put you in that position. But you live with it because you know your livelihood is depending on number eleven putting his hand in the dirt and getting a jail and hurts twice a year.
And once the interview got publicized on social media Twitter specifically, obviously, there was a faction of fans that had some outrage and then came the you know.
Trade him for it?
No, No, that's le's because whether because you got to understand that when it comes to a player like Michaeh and I mean not only of his caliber on the field, but his character, right, there are gonna be times where he makes you laugh and he does that and there are gonna be times where he makes you cringe with the sound. But you don't trade Lawrence Taylor. You manage Lawrence Taylor. You get the right people in as Bill Parcells,
you get the right people in the management. And there's a story that I was reminded of Bill Belichick told recently about the meeting the team meeting. Lawrence Taylor was five or six minutes late to the meeting. Belichick goes to Parcels and says, Hey, I just want to let you know that lt was late to the meeting. Parcels looks at Belichick and says, why do you start the meeting before he got there. This is what Brian's talking about when you're talking about star players in particularly a
generational talent. Unfortunately that talent knows their generational talent makes them a little bit more difficult to manage. But you don't handle them like you handle player fifty three on the roster. You just don't because, yeah, you know, let's say let's say you did make the mistake of trading Michael. Okay, let's say you got a slew of draft picks and three of them were edge rushers.
Blah blah blah blah blah.
Can you promise me that those three edge rushers combined get you the production on an annual basis that Michael Parsons, could you can't promise me that, And because you can't promise me that, don't make the mistake. So I understand that some of the comments fans might find crimsworthy. Okay, fine, But I will also say social media didn't exist in the LT days, in the Michael Irvin days and the Charles Haley days, and if it did, you would understand just.
How disul be in jail.
Yeah, you understand just how difficult it can be to manage those generational talents. But also you would understand that Michael Parsons isn't as bad with some of these sound bites in his off the field behavior as some of those legends were. So a little bit of grace, well, maybe a lot of grace is required here because of what he's able to do on the field.
And when you talk about managing generational talent, that's Mike Zimmer's new job now, handling Michael Parsons.
He addressed his communication with him.
Right, absolutely, Yeah, Mike Simmer.
I could go all the way back with Mike Zimmer working in this front office with him and Mike's best friend is Deon Sanders. Ye talk about managing somebody, you know, are having to manage somebody that didn't like to practice, didn't love to play, love to compete, love to play, love to play multiple sports, had outside interest, like to fish, like to do things other than practice meaningless football. I
think it for Micah. I think the problem that a lot of people have with this whole thing with Micah is the leadership talk. And I know we got into
it a little bit last week. You know, there's different ways to be a leader, and you know, when you're talking about leadership roles, especially after what happened in that Green Bay game, there's a lot of guys that came out and we're talking about we need to do this different, and the fans are like, wait a minute, you're telling me these things, but you're in Philadelphia, you're in Tokyo, you're in somewhere else. I think that's the thing that
people they they want, they want something different. They don't want to see what happened in Green Bay again. You know, they don't want to see that and whatever that means leadership or practicing or whatever, they have to do avoid that at all costs.
But also, I'll add to this conversation for those that.
Want Michael Parsons to be a choir boy. Are many of you not the same fans that were pissed off during the Garrett regime at right kind of guy?
Right?
Because you said, oh, well, the Cowboys need to get some dogs in here. They don't have enough dogs in here. They don't have enough guys with just that kind of mentality where it's just like I'm just gonna go kill somebody on the field and maybe off the field.
They weren't that choir boy.
Now Mike McCarthy era the Cowboys, they're less worried about choir boys and more worried about getting guys in here who can actually be destructive in games at their respective position. Right, You can't always have it both ways. So which one of those things do you want? Would you prefer to give up Michaeh for three rkgs?
Yeah, who may not.
Come close to his I will say this, I will say this, I think fans want you to have playoff success. I think that's where we're at right now. I think the fans, you know, if we're in Arizona, Atlanta, Carolina, one of these places, they would they would be so happy having three twelve win seasons in a row. So, yeah, the problem is you get into playoffs and that's where the Dak Prescott's take the arrows. That's where the Michael Parsons take the arrows because Marcus Lawrence, Yeah, the Marcus.
That's where the guys take the arrows. Coaching staff takes the arrows. Front office takes the arrows. Ownership takes the arrows because as a fan, you're like, listen, fine, I'll buy the NFC run the East Championship hat. I'll be happy to wear that, but what are you giving me
beyond that? That's where I think fans are now, I know what working on one five to three, the fan on our shows, this is the This is the first time I felt a fan base that is really like saying enough and it's and it's spreading out, not just a one player. It feels like it's spreading on Dak, but all these players, front office, Jerry, all these people are feeling that. Stephen Jones, Will McLay, they're all feeling that because the fans are like, fine, yeah, great championship,
NFC's championship shirt. You get your the second seed, you get bounced by the seventh seed. You know, you get bounced in at San Francisco. There's no shame in that, but it's just the way this has happened the last thirty years. That's that's where I think the fan base is right now. They don't want to hear it anymore, right. They want to see They want to see success, and not just winning the division success. They want to see a lot more. They see They see the Lions.
Getting to the NFC Championship game, they.
See other teams, they see Houston getting to the next round, they see, you know, like, where's our team here?
And make no mistake about it, the fans deserve exactly that. They deserve a playoff run, They deserve a championship, especially for those that are not old enough to have ever experienced.
I was a young man the last time this team won a championship.
So they absolutely deserve it.
And there is and I believe going into the season this is going to be one of those rare instances where a lot of the fan base is going to be dissociative until January.
Yeah, right, where they're just.
Going to agree with you when you said that earlier, I totally agree with.
You're going to enjoy the ride as much as they can, but it's going to be right here at Median and then it's not until January comes that they're going to sit up and say, okay, now, show me what you're going to do.
You go nine and eight and don't make the playoffs.
Fans are going to be standing at the gates out here with the pitchforks and torches and yeah, and they're going to be yelling for and you know, there's things and there will be changes. Probably the head coach will change, maybe the quarterback will change. There's going to be sweeping changes here, you know, and that might not be good enough for this fan base. It might not be This fan base has been spoiled for a lot of years of winning games. Trust me, there are some organizations.
You know.
Carolina has never had a back to back winning seasons in their history there and they've been around since ninety five.
I know it's not that long, but think about that.
They've they've never had back to back winning season. I'm like Cam Newton, No, Jake Delone, No, they would to a super Bowl, no, you know so, But this fan base, they I think they've I think they're past their eyeballs now. I think there are a lot of things they are tolerable of. But I think we're past their eyeballs now.
And I'll say this, and I'll throw it back to unicole, circling back to the leadership aspect of it from Mike, And I said this on this very show a few weeks ago. I said, not every elite soldier is designed to be a general right, And I think that that's what Michael Parsons falls into as far as category wise.
Keep in mind, there are people who are up in arms at Ceedee Lamb at certain instances in twenty twenty three because they didn't like his meter on the sideline, because they didn't necessarily understand how his mind processes things. But if you're sitting here telling me that he's not the leader of that wide receiver room, I'm telling you you're crazy. Brandon Cooks is a leader in that wide receiver room. But even Brandon Cooks defers to Cede Lamb. So I will I say all that to say the
expect it's all about managing expectations. You have to know with a particular player who has the ability to lead production wise versus vocally. Dak Prescott is your vocal leader and he can lead by production as well. Micah is not the vocal guy, Ceede. Lamb is not the vocal guy, but when Lamb and Micah are on the field, that's how they lead by example because they're constantly challenging other guys to be to the standard, to play to the standard.
Yeah, no, no, ahead, I can agree with that, but I think that there's also some level of sense of urgency that you have to have, especially in a year like this with Michael Parsons and that. Yeah, and that's involved in making sure that you're at OTAs, even though it's not voluntary, making sure you're you know, everywhere you need to be. And granted McCarthy did say in the press conference that he had been in the building every now and then and engaged engage that.
Word, but you know, you've got to be had some lunch with you.
But no, I think that there's has.
Got to be a level of sense of urgency, you know, and that means also having more words to say to Mike Zimmer. He also addressed that yesterday in the press conference. Let's go ahead and take a listen real quick.
M hm, sorry, it's not firing, give me, but once we get it cute up. We'll we'll hear that just how interesting the summer is going to be when it comes to And Michael Parsons.
Ready realized in playoffs, like.
Honestly, man man, Zim probably said it's total words to each other. Yeah, he's a he's a very quiet person. And all I keep hearing from your coach is like, Zim likes it this way. I was like, well, I like it, but like, you know, so I can't wait to have like ma tru like sit down with him. I think it'll be pretty cool because obviously old school mindset, old school mentality. But you know, I think he has a lot of great players, but he ain't never have a Micael before, So it'll be fun and I think
it's gonna be unique. There's a lot of similarities on things how he used me with how Dan used me in the system, but he has more twigs in terms of how he's going to set things up. And also there's some things that I got to get used to too. You know, it's gonna be a compromisable relationship. There's one things he's like, I'm not gonna give on. I don't give on before we.
Take our second break. I've got to get y'all's thoughts real fast. Brian take it away.
Yeah, I know. I've known Mike a long time.
Nice precursor.
No, I'll say this though, I think Mike understands. I absolutely do, And I think that Mike Zimmer of two thousand and three would probably lose his s over that Mike Zimmer twenty twenty four. I think he understands, Okay, I need this guy for my defense.
I need this guy.
I have a weapon here that I can use, and we've seen just in some of the practice we saw yesterday, moving Mike around a little bit and trying to find spots, double a gap, blitzes, things like that. So to me, I think that that sit down will be good. But I think that Mike Zimmer will look at him in the eye and say, man, I need you every day during the season. You might go to Tokyo and do what you need to do before, but when we're here, when this thing starts we land in Oxnard, I need
you here every day doing this. And Mike's very direct about that because if you don't I know this about Mike, if you don't know what you're doing, he won't play it. Now you're saying broad us, he's got to play Michael Parsons. Yeah, but you know what Mike does not. He's not going to tolerate what happened in Green Bay. We're busting coverages and guys are running free all over the secondary and stuff.
He's not going to tolerate that. So he's gonna sit down with Micah and they're gonna have their back and forth. But Zimmer, I think if this was two thousand and three, there would be probably a lot of cursing going on back and forth. I think Mike's a little bit more like, Okay, this is what I need from you, and he'll he'll lay out the expectations.
I think it'll be a firm dialogue.
I think Micah Parsons is going into the dialogue feeling as Okay, I have some points to make and being open to hearing right some of the points. And Mike Zimmer is gonna go in having the same energy. And I don't think you know Zimmer to your point, I don't think Zimmer twenty twenty four is the same as you know.
Even Zimmer twenty twenty he was.
A mean man in two thousand and three, two thousand and two, he was mean.
But that being said, Zimmer said, he's still right out here. Yeah, not a few weeks ago, and he said it has to be done my way exactly. Quote he exactly has to be done my way. So, however, those two need to come to that understanding. I think ultimately that is the understanding that that will happen. I think Mike's going to end up giving more than Mike Zimmer will give as far as the supposed compromise that Michael Parsons is
looking for. But I also feel that if Parsons does, then this defense can be much more successful because Zimmer obviously that Michael Parsons knows how to play the position arguably better than anyone playing in the position right now. You can argue Miles Garrett and TJ. Watt obviously, but there's also a lot to be said for what Mike Zimmer brings to the table. He's been there, he's done that, he's seen it, he's coached some of the best, he's
coached some Hall of famers defensively. So if I'm Michael Parsons, yeah, I get it. He's never had a Micah before. But you've also never had a Mike Zimmer before.
Yeah, real quick here though, real quick, there's not a lot of time here because, yeah, coaches contracts, we all know, we all know what the history is. Right now, all these coaches are really on one year's deal, so there's not a lot of chance for growth. Whatever agreement they come to, it's got to be quick, right, it's got to be swift, and it's got to be right now because this time next year we might be talking about a wholenother thing.
Yeah, it'll be a very interesting training camp.
Even Mike I said that. Yeah, at the end of all of that thank you and a it was said.
They was like, ah, it's going to be a fun training camp, and he kind of smiled and looked at the camp hughes like it is.
Yeah, take that for exactly.
What it's worth for a lot of battles as well.
When you talk about this offense, I mean, who will emerge as the number four pass catcher?
This offense found a spark and obviously Lamb Brand.
Cooks Jake Fergus who were going to break that down though coming up in the next break.
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All right, guys, I know we have a little bit left in the show, but it's only right to talk about.
This cowboy I got to give somebody some credit here too. The second segment is brought to you by blockchain dot Com. All right, carry on, carry on, there we go.
Uh No, I mean, I know we have a little bit left in the show, but it's only right to talk about this Cowboys offense, right, I mean you have Jake, Jake Ferguson at tight end, Ceedee Lamb and Brandon cooksou finishes the top three uh in receiving yards and targets. Of course, fourth and fifth were Michael Gallup and Tony Pollard. When you you're trying to find that fourth past catcher.
Who's that guy?
For me, it's Jake Ferguson, And technically Jake Ferguson is your third target.
I think he's actually the second.
It might be.
I think you're going to look up and you're going to see at the end of this, when we're all breaking this down in this in January or February, whenever we do this, that we're going to say that that Ceedee Lamb and Jake Ferguson the most two targeted guys, and then now it's Cooks and Tolbert and you know all the other guys at everybody else.
I think it's what we're gonna say.
I think Jake Ferguson goes over thousand yards. I'm putting that on the table right now.
Okay, we're gonna run that back.
Yeah.
I think he goes over thousand yards, and I think he's definitely a pro bowler, and I think he's in the conversation for at minimum second team All Pro.
Yeah, I'm going to go.
With fourth maybe Jayleen Tolbert, And I say that because you see the confidence in him this offseason and the way that he's carrying himself. He feels more confident, one in his ability, but also the fact that he's been under Michae McCarthy's system already. What have y'all seen so far in mini camp out of Jaalen Tolbert?
You know last week man was there was just I just have this vision of him coming back for the ball and I think he got caught between wanting to body catch it and hands catch it, and his.
Body was out of position and Dak hit him.
Dak hit him right in the middle of the one, and but it was to the point where he was trying to figure and it was a drop and then he came back with another catch and I was like, Okay, get him back on track. But I'll tell you what, man, there's going to be some competition for that third spot, and I a lot of it. We've seen receivers when
we've been out there in Oxnard. We've seen the All Oxnard Receiver team, you know, where these guys have like a week of really good practice and then you're doing stand ups about man, I'll tell you what, this guy, this guy you know place you know, and then and then and then two days later you want to go into a hole you know, and I'm the same way I talk about it on the rail. I got to watch this kid looks like he's getting now, you know.
It's and the next thing you know, he is not even on the practice squad, you know, And so that's but they've got to avoid that. Playing receiver is so difficult in the national football and especially when you go through training camp. It's constant running, it's constant soreness, it's constant up and down. The consistent receivers, it's like it tied in with the with the John Stevens. He was able to go through every practice it was the same practice in a positive way.
At receiver.
You can't have five really good practices and then three really bad ones, you know. That's what these guys have to avoid and getting ready for this season, and the ones that survive it are going to be the one that's going to be receiver four, five, and six, and everybody else is going to be on the practice squad.
Well, one thing's for sure, and that is that Jalen Tolbert's self confidence is repaired. It is definitely nothing like what we saw in year one with him, where he was playing he was overthinking versus just simply going out there and playing football. So the confidence is there, is fully rebuilding, it is glowing. That being said, as we watch him take first team reps with Dak Prescott to the point of competition, we're also talking about Jaalen Brooks
taking reps. Yeah, first team reps with Dak Prescott, and eventually in training camp you're going to see Ryan Floydoy taking reps, taking some snaps with Dak Prescott. And then keep in mind you talk about the All ox Gnar team Jalen Cropper. He was impressive last year in training camp before the injury at the back end of training
camp kind of derailed his potential rookie season. So, I mean, you have so many bodies, so much talent, and then you you know that was prior to you going into the draft and getting a pure athlete in Floyd NOI who he's your definitive X, but I mean his routes that he run, they're already better than Michael Gallup's routes.
So I mean that not to shade Michael Gallup, but it is to say that you have a rookie coming in who, although he's built like an X, he's more athletic than the traditional X, and he can run routes better than the traditional X. So that pushes the Jalen Toberts and the Jalen Brooks of the world that much more so.
So it's I mean, that's a position.
That you gotta watch frad of Jerry Madaline. I'm going to explain, Jerry, X receiver plays on the line of scrimmage. So the Z, when you hear the Z, that's the move. That's the motion guy. So if you always hear somebody and Patrick just talked about the X, that's the guy that stands on the line of scrimmage and runs the slants and things like that.
The big the bigger generally the bigger body receiver. So I had to do that because j j.
Jerry, because we're meeting with Jerry next week.
Jerry.
Jerry will remind you that, like when you talk that way, you have to you have to explain what a three technique is. You have to explain you know, under tackle, you have to explain these things. But yeah, I'll you know, to me, they Brooks is an interesting case. Brooks is an interesting case, and I I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks beats out Tolbert. I wouldn't be surprised.
I would not.
I think he's going to be the guy that has the consistent practices every every day, and I think he's going to play through. He's got a little bit of an edge and toughness about him that I don't think things bother him. And I'm gonna I'm going to throw it out there and say that this this, that that Brooks will be over Tolbert.
When the sink said, what.
I also say is dropping down a little bit behind w R three. Keep an eye on on Corey Krumes, the undrafted rookie that was signed. He's made, he made some He showed me some things in Rookie Minnie Camp as much as you can show in Rocky Minnie camp
O Ta showed me more. And now that we're having mandatory mini camp, I'm really keeping my eye on him to see what he's doing with that third and second team reps because he might push a guy like Jalen Cropper, you know, and then of course you have other guys like Racy McMath and then you have Tyrant Billy Johnson who is resigned.
And he's a good looking kid.
Yeah, he walked by me and I'm like going, whoa. Yeah, I'm like, look at this guy. Yeah, him and Overshown. I mean I stood next to over shown yesterday and I'm like going, man, my gosh, he's put on a lot of weight in a good way.
It's a big guy.
I mean a big guy that's muscle. So that wide receiver position.
Man, we talked about the running backs room being stacked more so for wide receivers and that's going to be a very very fun battle.
And we're also talking if we're talking about past catchers in general, John Stevens tight End. I know Mike McCarthy is very excited about him coming back this year and now he was an athlete. Yeah, he had a heck of a preseason last year.
Job.
Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
He's going to call somebody a job.
When you talk to Lounda Wells, and we did here recently. Obviously, Lunda has a lot of praise for his group in general, right especially with you know, guys like Jake Ferguson what he's been able to do. But the way that when you step aside from Jake Ferguson conversation, which is an obvious, glowing conversation.
You start talking about some of these younger guys.
To pay hinder shots John Stevens when you're coming back, and even like the rookie coming in Brevin Yea for so. But the way, there's a glimmer in Lunda's eye about John Stevens. John Stevens is injury. His torn acl was the only thing even Stephen Jones basically said it. It was the only thing that kept John Stevens off of this roster last year.
Assistant practices throughout right.
So this is a guy who can as a tight end, he can line up off the line, as a wide receiver, he can line up on the line, and now he's put on muscle due to his injury. So now he can maybe be an inline blocker when you need him to be, which adds more value to him simply just being more so red zone thread or giving you some wide receiver reps.
John Stevens is going to cost somebody a job. We'll see who that is.
Though, inline blocker next to the tackle.
Position battles are going to be fun.
Thank you Jerry for always putting that in my head.
There you go, Well, that'll do it for today's episode. This is fun, guys.
Thank you did a heck of a job.
Thank you, thank you guys.
Such a start.
That'll do it for today.
And she washes her hands.
I hope so.
You never know. Shounds out to COVID.
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