Cowboys Break: Boom or Bust?

The Break. We're presented by Geico, and we were live from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star and got my crew here whipping Nick Eatman and we've got Amber Garcia. Day's night in today, but we'll try to make it work. We got a lot to talk about today. We're gonna get into a lot of different topics. We're gonna start first talking about some of the offseason training. There's been a lot going on around the NFL with

regards to this topic. We've seen a lot over the last couple of days with regards to some of the teams and how they plan to handle offseason training. We'll get these, we'll get these ideas or we get ideas from this group with regards how we think that will affect the Cowboys, and then we're gonna talk draft. I've always heard it said from people who work in football that you really can't judge a draft until you're at

least three four years into the players playing. So we're gonna go back to the twenty sixteen draft, and we're gonna go all the way from there to last year's draft, and we're gonna walk through those players and see what you guys think about how good of a pick they ended up being for the Cowboys. I see that look on your face and where you're locked and loaded, ready to go. Got a lot of opinions to give us. Well, you know what it's like. We always talk about how

Will McClay. He's great. I think his staff is great, and the job he's been doing here with the Cowboys

is amazing. But just in general, when I know you sent us the list of these guys and looking at it, usually I've always had like a higher viewed on every draft pick, and I know we're about we're gonna get into it, but then I'm like, huh, my idea or opinion has kind of changed at this point that you look at some of these names, You're like, huh, I thought he was really good, and I'm like, oh, whoa was he drafted that high? Oh? Okay, So it'll be

fun to get into it later. Yeah. I had some surprising moments myself as I was going through it, like huh, I didn't realize he was that high, or I didn't realize he was that low. And they've gotten some production out of him. So I think it'll be interesting for some of the listeners out there to kind of hear some of that as well. Are you doing today, Nick, Great? Ready to jump in. I'm ready to go all right.

This first topic though, I did this because I know Nick has some really really strong opinions on it, because you and I've had this conversation about off season training

basically the way this is going right now. Obviously last year because there was because COVID was going on teams all their offseason work remotely, and as a result of that, what we've heard from the NFLPA and from the leadership of the NFLPA is that they want to continue doing that this year and probably going into the future, because they feel like it's better for the players to not

train as much during the off season. That being said, what we've seen over the last couple of days is the NFLPA has basically told players, hey, there's not most of the stuff is volunteering. So if teams are not going to change the rules and say and they want teams to our players to train in person, then we're advising you guys to not show up and not show up until it's mandatory, which would be the mental mini

camp that happens in I think in June. That being said, let's start first with what players do you think What do you think players will miss by not having offseason training in person and just doing it all remotely. Well, the first of all, the big part of off season training is training part of it. It's the actual it's

the offseason conditioning program. That's that's what it's called, and so um, you know, I would imagine that it's a lot easier to train and condition and lift weights when there's a guy helping you do that and there's forty to fifty other players doing it all in groups. You know, you're trying to, you know, make sure that you get better here and you've got this guy doing this and he's pushing each other all that as opposed to go

into some you know, I'm not gonna name it. I don't even know what our official sponsor is, but someplace where you got to go and do your own workouts and all that. So, um, I think that's the biggest part of it is is that you know, we always say, man, this guy in his second year or his third year is gonna come back, He's gonna look totally different. Well if that's is that really gonna happen? You know, like, is that gonna happens if you have to do it

on your own? So I think the conditioning program part is the biggest thing of getting them all here. And from what I've been told, there has been a very good turnout so far with the guys in the weight room. We'll see what happens if you know they're advised differently. Yeah. I saw an article yesterday from Tom Pellicero where you say, at the Cowboys right now lead the league with regards to players that have been working out in their facilities.

I think the number was like twenty five. Next closest team was like twenty and one of those teams, Denver, who had twenty, they put out a statement yesterday as a group saying that they were planning on not going to train in person, and so I think it, you know, we'll see how this all plays out for the Cowboys, and or do you think that there are there are issues that the Cowboys would have to face if they

don't have that offseason training at person. I think there are, but real quick, just in general, going back to last year and some of the things that we did get to see last year from a virtual offseason. And again I'm not an athlete, I'm not an expert, so I don't really know, but we did notice a crazy amount of injuries during the season, like not just with the Cowboys, all around the league and big players. These weren't even

one year guys or rookies. These were veteran guys that those are the guys that I believe Nix says are in those meetings sayings, well, we know how to take care of ourselves and of course you're never trying to get injured. But I think that maybe that's another layer as to why we got to see so many injuries last year. And it sucks. But with the Cowboys, it's just tough because once again Mike McCarthy and having new

players coming in and again, you don't really know. I know a lot of people talk about cultures and having culture in teams, and like, I don't really know what the culture is here, and we haven't had access to that side of the building aside from Nick, but just in general, I mean, how difficult is that because it didn't work out for the Cowboys last year, So once again on the second year, I know he's more familiar with guys and things like that, but I think it's

still important too, even if it's workouts, to be around the guys and just be around the building and being able to talk face to face, it does make a difference. How much do you think that affects McCarthy's ability to lead this team in only a second year when he didn't have that last year? And more importantly, does it affect Dan Quinn in what would be his first year as a Cowboys defensive coordinator. That's gonna be tough because

then Quinn has a good, good reputation. But at the end of the day, you need to be there, you need to be present to actually make those kinds of improvements. And right now there are so many questions hanging in the air and so many different guys that you haven't seen put together yet. But with Mike McCarthy, I don't know what to think about him because last year when he talked to us in the media, he made it sound like everything was working out and it was great.

And then which is what you have to say at that point, right, well, yeah, but at least I mean, if it's if it's difficult, at least say you know, we're doing everything we can, but it's been challenging. At least say that. Yeah, but it wasn't like that. Nobody wants to hear that, clearly because he said it the other day and it sounded like, you know that it sounded like he was making excuses. I mean, I don't

know what it what else it could be. I mean like what I mean, nobody depends on what you you know, what your agenda is as far as what you're listening to. Like, do you want to just say, ah, that cowboys suck, they're terrible? Well, then then the coach says that, and it's like he's just given out excuses or whatever. But I mean it's true though, it's true. I mean, what the challenges were the challenges and it's still gonna be there if they're trying to implement a new defense and

you say, how good dan Quinn is he? Yeah, he might be, But when did he get fired from Atlanta last year? Last year when they couldn't figure out you know, when they didn't have an offseason. And I'm not saying that was the reason, you know, because they had kind of been trending downward a little bit. But it's gonna come down to and this is this is such a tough situation for players. They're in a tough spot. Do they want to stick together as a union in NFLPA

is in encouraging this? Or do they want to say, hey, you know what, last year sucked, We sucked. We need to be better than that. We need we need you know, we don't want to deal with that again. Let's get in here, let's let's learn this defense, let's get together as a team, and you go against your union by doing that. I mean, that's that's the challenge. Yeah, and then then the NFL, like you said, the NFL steps in and says no, now you know, now it's a

competitive disadvantage. Yeah, So it's it's kind of a seesaw thing back and forth here and you know, so hold on now that you said mentioned the competitive disadvantage is that each team has the option to do that or like, if it's the majority, then it's like leaguewise no right now, Right now, teams are being told from what I understand, they're being told to do their stuff remotely. But I think there's going to be a point when they will have the opportunity to be able to do stuff in person.

And that's where it becomes a situation where let's say, for example, right now, you got to see all and you got the Broncos who have both issued statements saying as a team, as players, we don't plan to show up. So what happens if you get i don't know fifteen teams twenty teams that do the same thing and say

they're not going to show up. Does it become a situation where the commissioner has to step in and say, okay, for the better of the league, so those other twelve teams don't get a competitive advantage, We're going to basically say everybody has to be remote, right what point does it get to whether the commissioner has to step in or feels like yes, or does it get to that point and it just becomes a competitive advantage and it just is what it is. If your players decide to come,

you're going to get an advantage. Those are a lot of things that I think the league is going to have to consider here and try to figure out before they make a final decision on how they're gonna handle this. And I'll add one other level level of complexity to this. Nick, you talked about the stick with the union and kind of do that what happens for those players who have money tied to offseason training, Like there's some guys their

contracts are have stipulations in them. They get a certain amount of money for showing up to train in the offseason. So are they willing to forego Yeah, are they willing to forego that money in order to stick with the union? Because I don't think. I don't think the union or those players who don't want to show up are going to just give them a check and say, Okay, we'll

pay you instead of the teams. So I know if it was my house, my wife would be like, say, you got a job, go to your job, work right, So I think there's a whole different level of complexity that that's going to be involved in this, and we'll see how it all turns out. But it's not just as simple as do it or don't. I think it's

an individual decision in a lot of ways. Yeah, and then and then you're going to throw on top of all of that, even if they guys do show up, and now you're dealing with different aspects of it too, different layers like COVID. Now you know, which are the players vaccinated or are the ones that aren't? How different are they are they going to be? I think the NFL came out yesterday and said that if the players are not vaccinated, No, that was actually for team employees

that aren't play. Team employs aren't vacina, they won't be around players and all that. And then you know, and I from what I've been told, the players that aren't vaccinated will be they'll kind of go back into what happened last year where they tested all daily testing, have masks and distancing. So there's gonna be there's gonna be

some differences obviously, and how you treat certain players. And I know right now the Cowboys are focused on educating the players about the vaccine and hoping that that many of them take it. Of course, you know you can't force them to do that, but it's just there's just so many different layers to this. It's it's why the NFL. That's why we're about a week away from starting, or actually four or five days away from starting, and the NFL still hasn't figured out certain rules and guidelines, so

it's been really tricky. Yeah, so what you know of these players and this team and this culture around here, and obviously we mentioned that that you know, the report came out that the Cowboys lead the league as far as number of players that are working out already in the buildings. We know a lot of these players live here in Dallas, so it's not like they're leaving at the end of season to go somewhere else. Is where they live and so it's a much easier thing for

them to work out at the facility. That all being said, what do you expect to happen with the Cowboys players? Do you expect them to as a group pull out or do you expect them to be all in and still be here working out all in? I mean, we've seen we've seen it with different situations when it comes

to the Cowboys's just in general, whatever they want. Whoever, Like if Jerry Jones comes out and say, oh, which we know Jerry Jones has a certain expectation right now, if he's like wanting them to be here and be a part of it and just encouraging that, I feel that most likely everybody in that locker room will come together and be like, Okay, let's be here, because we've seen it happen, you know, and different scenarios again, we saw with the whole protest during the anthem and things

like that, where they find a way to come as a group and do it together, whatever it is. And I feel that after the experience from last year and knowing that this year things are improving with like the vaccine and seeing the success that especially the Cowboys had with the protocols that they had in place. We didn't get many cases here within the players as far as contamination and players that got sick. So I think that gives a certain level level of comfort and security and

knowing that you can actually do it. So I would imagine they all come together and are here together as a team and willingly, you know, not like they're being forced or anything, but that they would actually want to do it. That sounds good and that that that might be the case. What I don't know is, you know, again, it comes down to a lot of it as workouts, conditioning, all that conditioning program. And you know, we we know

what happened last year. Obviously, the Cowboys lost tragically lost their strength coach in the middle of the season, Marcus paul Um. And you know they've they've you know, they're still getting that that program together and and so some new faces there, uh, not entirely new, but but some so you kind of wonder, and I don't know what that would mean. Does that mean more unity or less? I don't know. I don't know that. Um so I

wish I had better answers. I mean, you're you're you're trying to get into the heads and minds of certain players. And then in those players that you've got your veteran guys that probably agree with the union, agree with the NFLPA, guys like JC Treader. Yep, you know that that's that's kind of leading that charge. And then I'm sure you've got guys that are younger, and you know, maybe guys that were injured and coming back to Gung Hole. They want to get back into this thing and they're tired

of having to do this on their own. So I think even within a team, it's gonna be tough. I couldn't I couldn't tell you one way or another, which way that they would lean on this. I really don't. If I was going to answer this question, I would say I would answer it with a question, tell me where Dak and DeMarcus Lawrence fall on this. Once I know where they fall on this, then I can give you an opinion on what I think will happen the rest of the players, because I think those two players

have a lot of sway in that locker room. And I think when when you have veterans that are respected, that have an opinion and they go into a room with the other guys and say, guys, here's my case. Here's why I think this is the right way to go. Especially with somebody like Dak, who is as charismatic as he is, those people tend to have people that follow him.

It's the reason why he's a great quarterback, in my opinion, is because he has the ability to get people to buy in and and and follow what he wants to do. So tell me what those two guys want to do. And I think that's what ends up happening with this team, because I think they's going to be here. Let me. But I will say this, what I don't know. What

I don't know is how does he fall. Does he think that ultimately you can be a better player throughout the season if you have more downtime during the offseason, And downtime may not mean you're doing nothing, It just made mean you're not doing what they would have you doing if you were working out here, right, That's what I don't know. Everything I've seen and heard about Dak's suggests to me he is a an extremely hard worker, So I don't even know if that would buy in

that would be a thing for him. I think he probably would be lack less work, But I just don't know. I had that conversation with him. And there's two parts of this. I've been talking about focusing on the conditioning

side of a conditioning program. As we get a little bit more into especially into May, you started talking about the OTAs and the organized team activities, which is a lot of the installing of the offense and the defense, especially defense which is which is a new new scheme this year, and you're trying to be versatile and flexible to do all these different things, you certainly need to be on the field to try to do that. So that's where I think the big issue is going to be.

That's where I think guys in the NFLPA feel like is unnecessary to do that much teaching and OTA sessions when I'm sure you know the the end of the coaches feel like we don't have enough time. We have to cram all this stuff in here. So that's where I think if a team decides that they want to be really better, conditioning is one thing, teaching installing, but that's the part that's still going to happen, right because

I don't think how what I've heard is remotely. They're still planning to do everything remotely, So all of the training and teaching and classroom work that's still stuff still is going to happen. What the what the players are saying is there doesn't need to be on field stuff, like they don't need to work on the field, they need they only need the remote stuff, the same thing they did last year. They have all the classroom work

they just didn't have the in person on field work. Well, I mean, as I speak from experience, I mean, I mean, are my kids. Are my kids learning better virtually or in the classroom. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you can, you can, you can just figure that out yourself. What I mean if you had to sit there and learn I mean the same thing with a meeting or whatever. You know, it's it's hard to get someone's attention for

that long. So and you don't know if they're picking it up until you get them on the field and say, now do it. You know, that's when you find out if they're picking up all the information that you're teaching them in the classroom. Yeah, all right, we're gonna take our first break. We come back. We're gonna jump in to draft talk. Well, to go through all these drafts

going back to twenty sixteen. Talk about every player. We're gonna define whether they have exceeded expectations, met expectations, they're below expectations, or they're the dreaded bustle talking about that. We come back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Honey, Big News, Gary, Are you okay? Oh I'm not Gary anymore? I'm Jackie Flash. What see? I want the latest smartphone, but the best deals are only for new customers. So to get a new customer deal, I changed my name

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by Geico. We're gonna talk draft. We got the draft starting up two weeks from tomorrow, and as I said before the Break, like, you really need a few years after your draft picks to really be able to evaluate. And I know after this draft we'll have a ton of people that will be out there saying giving draft grades, but it's just really premature. Into you can see how get how guys get into the league and how they how they how they acclimate to their jobs or new

jobs or new environments, and then you can determine. So we're gonna go back to twenty sixteen and beyond I'm sorry, two thousand and sixteen and forward and talk about each of the draft picks the Cowboys have made. And I'm going to give a name, and I want you guys to tell me if you think they exceeded expectations, they met expectations, they're below expectations, or they were a bust.

Question are these expectations as far as in the general public and what just overall people thought about the player or personal expectations, personal expectations. But I think I'm looking for more based upon where they would draft. So what you would generally think of a first round pick? Did he meet your expectations? Second round? Did he meet your expectations? It's because I think that factors in sure. Everybody has

different thoughts on that right now. I mean, well of what you think of first or second and third, you know, and also where in the first round are you are you taking these guys? Yeah, alright, let's start with the first one. Twenty sixteen first round pick, Zekiel Elliott met expectations, above expectations? Where is he? Um? I think he certainly met the expectations. I think he's above them a little bit.

I'm really yeah. I think I mean when when you when you drafted to him, when they drafted him, and you said he's gonna leave the league and rushing in three times, and uh, he's gonna be you know, he's gonna single hand, not single handedly, but he's gonna carry this team right now on his back with a rookie quarterback. And they're gonna go, and they're gonna go, you know, thirteen and three. Um wow, you know you're not expecting that, expecting a really good running back, but you don't, you know,

if you expect all of that. Now he you know, it's been five years and he's kind of he's he's starting to trend downwards. So you wonder this is a big make or break year for him to kind of like where his career is going to be defined. But I think he's definitely met the expectations. I think he exceeded them a little bit. From me, I would agree with that. I think he exceeded it just because of just like Nick mentioned, the how much he carried the team and how much load was put on his back

when he got here. Just taking everything into account, I think he and I guess, knowing and me watching since I started working with the Cowboys all the different running backs and what they had done up to this point, and then here comes this guy called Ezekiel Elliot and goes in there and does what he was doing. To me, it was impressive and it definitely was above what I was expecting from a running back. I don't know if

I'd go all the way with above expectations. I think he met expectations, and that probably is because my expectations for the fourth overall pick in the draft is exactly what he provided. He came in here and was immediately an impact player, probably one of the best players. I probably was one of the best players on this team. Had some off the field stuff that he had to deal with, but was by far among the best in

the league since he's been in the league. So that's what you would expect from before a number four overall pick. The reason why I wouldn't put above that is because of last year. Really, you look at his performance last year, you look at his production last year, you start to wonder, like, is this kind of the plateau? I have we already seen the plateau for him? If it's a number four overall pick, you expect him to still be ascending at this point in his career. That I don't know, and

I want to see what happens this year. I agree with you, Nick, this is a critical year for him in my opinion, because I want to see if last year was an aberration or if it's a situation where he's still ascending. It was just a weird year for everybody. He was coming off, you know, having a I mean, then he was coming into a situation where you had COVID and and just not everything was not set up the way that it should be to get success out of your running game. You missed the two tackles, you

didn't have the quarterback. There's a lot that you can point to, But that would be the reason why I didn't say he exceeded it. Okay, I thought you wanted to go back. I mean, you know, it's just you're right. I mean, fourth overall pick. You expect that. But I mean, you know he's in here. This is six year you know. I mean, in midway through his fifth year, he's the third all time leading rusher in Cowboys history. I mean,

you know that's impressive. That's impressive. I mean, and I you know, I think it's easy to answer that now and say, well, he's starting to kind of go down a little bit, but I mean he I wouldn't have if you would have just said on draft day or oh man, everyone's excited all this stuff. You know, everybody's saying LFG, you know, Zeke, And if you said this is going to be a stats I've been like, Wow, Okay, so I was a little bit more impressed by by that.

And again this is not me saying I'm not impressed, and I don't think he's done his job. He's certainly done his job, and I think he's earned everything he's gotten here. I think the difference is, like, that's what I would expect from a fourth from the fourth overall pick in the draft. I expect him to be Hall of Fame caliber. And so he's on that line. And

so let's see where he goes from here. He's still got some more years to put in and if he's going to get to the Hall of Fame, but he's on that track, right, and that's where I think he should be. All right, let's walk to the next one. This will be interesting. The second round pick for the cow Boys that year was one Jalen Smith. He was thirty fourth overall pick at the beginning of the second round. Where do you think he falls, exceeded met below or bust.

This is tricky because of the expectations of the pick and the player. Not just the thirty fourth overall player. This is the I mean the pick, this is the player specific, player specific. He exceeded expectations for me, without a doubt. He made the Pro Bowl. He exceeded expectations. Wasn't sure he was ever gonna play. I really didn't, and neither do they. They didn't know. They didn't know. They had a good idea because the guy that did the surgery was one of their team doctors, but the

nerves had not had they haven't fired up yet. They didn't know, and for him they did. They finally got to play. He's made a Pro Bowl. Is he everything you want him to be? No, he's not. He's not, and he frustrates people in many different ways at this point. But the fact that he played, got that contract, all that he exceeded my expectations for what I ever thought he was going to be camp such a tricky one. That is one. Yeah, I mean I'm just so so

in defense of exceeded because of the injury aspect. But then it's I don't I don't know what to tell you. I choose skip, I skipped this. No, that's what you don't have. No, No, I really don't know, because it depends how far you look at it. I thought a couple of years ago, after the he got back into you know, when he got back and got into the field with the Cowboys and all that. I'm like, Okay, he has some some growing to do and some hesitation in his movements and all that. And then you started

seeing some improvement. And then he got to the point where you're like, Okay, we're past the injury. Now we're actually evaluating him and looking at him as a legit NFL linebacker. But then he wasn't meeting those expectations for me as a when you start judging different linebackers around the league. So it's just I guess met with a little exceeded just because of the injury. But I don't know as of right now. He I would call it a bus but no, depends how far. But well, no,

he did sign a new contract. How the far how long is a contract for I was like a five year deal. I mean, you could say he's a bust, but you know what I mean, not as a bus as a draft as a draft pick. I don't think you could say that now, but you could say, and we usually don't turn the word bust on free agents, you know, but from the free age from the time he signed the contract to now, he certainly has not

met expectations. He's below expectations as a player after in his second you know contract, it's a better way to put it. Also make the case for everybody that's signed a contract other than maybe Zach Martin. You know, we disagree a little bit. And then you know d law I mean like, yeah, you and I disagree on law Yeah, I mean I think he's met expectations. But that's also

because I don't value him justin Sachs. I value him in a lot of other things too that I think he's contributed to this team, particularly his ability to stop the run and just to make impact plays. Like I think he is the most impactful defensive player you have, and that's what you're paying him to be. And I don't think you can name another guy that's been more impactful than DeMarcus Lawrence on this defense. No, But if you said, hey, okay, and where is he on that?

I mean, he's he's in twenty fourteen. Okay, he's not even on this Ye, he's not on this list. But I mean, but that just says how much like he's still here up to twenty fourteen and productive? Right? That? Right? But you say, all right, we're paying you to do this, and then on the day he signed to be like, so, what's going to happen in the future. What do you

see in the next few years? While guys, I see myself getting about six sacks one year, three and a half another, I see us being on the worst defense in the history of the Cowboys as far as giving up points. But I'm gonna be the best of that, you know. So it's like, Okay, he can't help the guys that are around him. He could you really go like that defense last year? He was not the problem. I don't think I left games saying, man, DeMarcus Lawrence,

like they gotta do something about him. That was not the problem. He's the best of the group. But I mean, I mean, somebody's got to be the best of a historically bad defense. And I'm just saying, if he was that much a twenty one and a half million dollars year player to rush the passer, you could make a

little bit more of a difference, That's all I'm saying. So, so, name a guy that is in the league that is that caliber player that doesn't have other guys on the defense with him, like other good players on the defense with him. I don't know. I don't know what the Bears have. I don't I don't know. Well, we know the sack totals over there. What you would expect for the amount of money they're paying him either like, no, no,

it's not. And again it's not always sacked totals. It's it's it's pressures and and laws got a lot of pressures he's got. He's got a lot of pressures there on. All I'm saying is is that everybody gets someone. You're on the worst defense in the history of the Cowboys as far as giving up points. Everybody, we got it. Nick Okay, keep saying that, keep saying that, about saying he gets a lot, he gets a little bit too. I mean, imagine if he said he didn't. Imagine if

he said, no, I did my job. I mean, I get public enemy number three. I get it. When you're the leader, by default, you have to take yeah, part of the blame when things don't go well. I get that. All I'm saying is I think the Cowboys paid him to be the best player on their defense. That's how he's being paid. I think he is that Now he can't control what they do in draft and free agency.

When it comes to the corners and the linebackers and the defensive tackles and all that other stuff, he can't control that, so he can only play with what he has, so he can do what he can do. And if offenses say, hey, we're gonna take him out of the game, we're gonna try to limit him, it requires somebody else

to step up. And if you're not willing to step up, yeah, okay, I mean your environment and the people that you have around you, Despite of how good you are, it does, at the end of the day, affect your own personal performance because it's kind of like depending on the energy and who's like, you need someone else to be able to do that. And if you look at the flip side, we just talked about Zeke, and I think that's exactly the same thing that happened on the other side of

the ball. Zeke wasn't you know, to me, he was the best player there, but he wasn't able to do what he was expected to do because of the situation. So the same thing goes with del and I expect more from him. You line up predominantly on the left side of the defensive line, you're facing the opposing team's right tackle every play. I would imagine you would get a little bit more healthy, I mean more sack than that, and getting chipped and getting doubled. That all goes with

it too. Le Let's not leak that out. I get it, but that's they all get chipped and they all get doubled, and you've got to be able to make some more than others. I'm guessing Duran's Armstrong doesn't get the same kind of attention as DeMarcus and on every other every Tuesday, he doesn't get the same attention either in baking. Let's know, we're spending too much time on a guy not on this list. I've realized during this conversation, I've realized this

is gonna span into next week's show. We're two players in on five years worth as well. So yeah, there's one player on this twenty sixteen list we can we can definitely skip over if we want to. But well, okay, I'm actually I want to make sure we get to him because obviously it's gonna be real quick. But let's start with let's let's go to the Lee Collins, he was a third round pick in twenty and sixteen, is he above at or below expectation. He met expectations for me,

a third round pick. For me, you go up there and you be a be a good player, to be a solid player, have some have some good moments, be a start, and uh, you know, in time to sign a contract, I mean you get you get now. He didn't get money here. You got to remember, big difference here in evaluating these guys is that there was coaching changes, head coaching changes, but also coordinator changes, and one of

them happened when he was up for contract. Do you want to go to a guy that drafted you, Rod Marinelli and the Raiders and go there or do you want to try a different scheme here? So you know, I think they would have liked to keep him, but not at that money. So I thought he met expectations. I don't really know how you judge a third round pick, but based on personal expectations, I think to me he

exceeded them, especially towards the last year. Honestly, he's not a guy that attracts a lot of attention or gets attention overall, but his last year I remember a training camp and in games I would be watching him and I began appreciating his value a lot more than I used to. So to me, I think that towards the

end he didn't exceed expectations. My judging, I expect a third round pick to definitely make the team, but to be a contributor as a rookie, whether it be special teams, rotational, and then also at your position, by your second year, I think you should be definitely be competing to start. Remember, they drafted you with the thought that you could get there.

You should be starting by your second or third year, at least if it's defense, at least in one of those guys that plays a lot in a heavy rotation. And so you know, and and and then you know, if you make the Pro Bowl or you're you're that kind of player, then you're certainly exceeding all that. You can't say every third round pick is Jason Witten, you know, because some of them are j J. Wilcox. I mean, you know which which you know he started games too.

I'm just trying to think of third round. He started, but he wasn't a great player. But you know, the third round you never really know. But I thought he met some Yeah, I think that's why the pick matters, right, is because you're in a third round pick, you're not expecting them necessarily to be great, Like they might not get that second contract from you, and they only he got a one year deal with the Raiders. Now he's got another deal with the Texans, so he's kind of

got it. Might bounce around for a few more years, ends up with a I don't know, seven to ten year career for a third round pick, and he's going to be starting at a lot of those stops. That's a pretty successful career for third years around pick. So for me, he met expectations, didn't exceed it, but he met expectations. All right, real quick, before we take our final break, let's talk about Charles Tapper, fourth round pick, first fourth round pick for the Cowboys. Met expectations below,

expectations below below expectations. He did not. He didn't. He didn't hardly do anything. And I don't think he's in the league at all, So no, I would expect him to be more of a contributor. What what did we use to turn bust on because about the same bus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. I forgot him. If you if you wanted to run bust, I think you could. Yeah, yeah, I mean he was injured so much and poor guy. I

felt terrible. He had zero luck and great guy, great you know the stories heartbreaking, Yeah yeah, and always with a smile on his face. Great dude, honestly, but it just sucks. He had the worst luck. Every time got injured with something, it was something else and something else. So we never really got to see him too much. And he you know, sometimes players get judged by guys

around them. Yeah, so when you're the when you're the first of two fourth round picks and the second one turned out pretty good, all right, it's gonna be tough for that first first. But he didn't play, and he didn't he was he was a bust. I mean, I think fourth round. I don't think anything past fourth round is a bust. See I disagree with you that they just don't show up and they were overweight and they

didn't ever make it to camp or something. But I it's hard to bust as a I personally think once you get past second round. I'm dicey about giving the term because I look at that and I'm like, I don't think he was a bust for fourth round. There's a reason why you're in the fourth round. They're probably risk associated with you from a play standpoint, maybe from

an injury standpoint, whatever the case might be. I don't look at him a bus I just think that was a chance they took in the fourth round and it didn't work out for him. That's not a bust because there's a reason why he's in the fourth round. I'm not as proper guys, so my vocabulary. So you're like, he's a bus No, but great guy. I just I always felt it's really bad for him. Yeah, all right, So we're gonna take our final break and we come back. He well, you want to just knock this one out

because I'm gonna say, exeare it's pretty easy. Exceeded expectations. Don't need to say much about that one. All right, So we got one more done. We'll go to our final break, we'll come back. We'll finish off the two thousand and sixteen draft. That shouldn't take too long. We'll jump into the twenty seventeen draft, maybe get through that before the end of the show. We'll be right back. This is Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. Since eighteen sixty five.

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just do by. Back to the break. Get your draft coverage of the Cowboys way with the official twenty twenty one Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine Draft Guide. The guide includes all the information and analysis you need to know for the cowboys upcoming draft. Get your copy today for only four ninety five at Dallas Cowboys dot com slash Star Welcome Back. It is the second segment of the break Cleft in the s WBC Mortgage Studio at the Star presented by Geico. Nick put that up again so people

can see Star Magazine this camera. Yeah, crys will figure it out, but that that's what Nick is talking about. That's what you need to get. If you're gonna be hyah, you give it to me, all right. So this is the magazine Nick is talking about. Star Magazine is the Draft Special. Um, if you're going to be watching the draft, you need this like you need this. This is the bible of the draft. You can have all the players in here and Nick, your team put this all together

did a phenomenal job. But it's an opportunity for you to know about all the picks throughout the draft that you can follow and you can follow a lot and kind of know what players are left on the board, read a little bit about each one and just kind of know kind of follow the draft. So it's a it's a must. Half should check it out, get it if you haven't gotten it already, and use it for Draft weekend. That's one of my favorite smells. If you have like an odd smell, that one. This this like

freshly printed magazine. When I was a kid, and we used to go to like my dad would take me into games, Like I would always get the game program. I collected them, and there's just when you get a new program, when you're sitting in the stands an hour early and you're you know, thumbing through it and all that, and you st just the smell like that is one of my favorite Like it's a distinct smell, but it really just comes back to going to games as a kid.

But like, that was one of my favorite things that actually takes me back to the days of Jose Cruz and say Sarceadanio Astros, Astros. When I was a kid, that was always like I wanted a program so I could just flip through and see all the players up close, see their pictures. And yeah, it does. You're right, it brings back the memories. It's not a smell so much as much as it's just the memories associated with it. All right, let's jump back in. We're talking about the draft.

We're instill in two and sixteen draft. We're not gonna get very far on this, but what do you have a few other guys in two thy sixteen and one that I think is of a pretty significant consequence, sixth round pick quarterback Anthony Brown met expectations below expectations or exceeded expectations. He exceeded expectations for me. In fact, I mentioned him a lot here lately when when we're talking about do you trade around, do you trade picks? Do you move up? I want to get as many picks

as I can. And because if you go and look, and I don't know how many years we're gonna get to go here in the last five years, but if you look at all of the drafts, every draft, I believe in the sixth or seventh round, the Cowboys are somebody's is helping you, somebody's playing one year. There's a couple of guys, maybe this twenty sixteen. So you know you're throwing stuff at the wall in the six or

seventh round. See what sticks, and and things have been able to stick a couple of times, and they don't always, but you know you draft three or four guys in those rounds, are you're gonna get one? Anthony Brown has exceeded for me, agree, mainly because of how much the Cowboys have had to use him and rely on him. So I mean from a guy drafted at that round, I would imagine they would be gone by now. I mean, yes, but you know what I mean a lot sooner than

got a second contract. You know, he's one of the higher paid guys. I mean, he's not he's great player by any means I mean, but he's been a serviceable player that started in some games, and he's made some plays for you, So it definitely exceeded. This is the quintessential example of what they call a value pick. To get a guy like this in the sixth round, and I actually forgot he was that low of a draft pick for some reason in my mind, I was thinking

he was a fourth round pick. But to be a sixth round pick and be a guy that's giving you quality starts. Again, he's not great, We're not going to pretend like he's great. But a guy that can give you solid production at the cornerback position enough for you to keep him back for a second contract, and you got him in the sixth round. That's a valuable use of a draft pick. And this is where I think, and you mentioned it, Nick, as we go through this

over this show. In the next show, this is where I think Will and this team do such a phenomenal job. You can look through all of these drafts and there are six and seventh round picks that have made the team and not only made the team, but have ended up starters for the team. Now, you could also, on the flip side of that, you could say, well, maybe that's why the defense hadn't been as good as it's been, Like, that's why they've had some of the results because they

don't have as good a talent. But you get the six or seventh round pick. So if you have an argument with that, it's not about what they used the sixth or seventh round pick on. It's what they did with free agency and what they did with those earlier pick to get those more impact players, because you gotta have these kind of glue guys on your team. And I think they've done a phenomenal job here, and I

think Anthony Brown's a good example of that. All right, let's move on to Cabon Frasier sixth round pick bove Met below. I guess maybe Matt, judging on the round, I would say, Matt, I mean, you definitely did not get as much used from him as you did with Anthony Brown, but he and he struggled with injuries and all that and had to battle with that being off the field. But I think, I mean, they got a decent use out of him when they needed to. So I would just say, Matt, yeah, well I was probably

say exceeded again, it's just my expectations. I don't always expect these guys to make the team. Uh, you know when he made it a few years he was here, a good special teams player. Uh, started a couple of games, but uh, you know it just I thought I thought he was. He was a good role player still in the league. I believe the place for the moment Dolphins. So yeah, yeah, I think he's been good. Yeah when you go again, you got a six round player. Yeah

that five years later, still playing in the NFL. To me, that succeeding expectations. That's what you want. And I think he provided what what he needed to provide for this team, being drafted where he was. Finally that that draft ended with a six round pick. Darius Jackson running back above met below? What do you think met? I mean, bounced around, played Okay, was never good enough to make the team, probably came here three times, had some injuries. Um, just

you know just just was a guy. It wasn't I mean, didn't really wouldn't below It's hard to be below expectations, you know, low in the draft low. Yeah, I guess so the same thing is he. I mean they just could never find a place for him. But he served as a body for practice and all that. So I guess, Matt, I don't know where you're listed, like if you missing a guy here, But I mean Rico Gathers was in this draft too, in the sixth round. Did you can

veniently leave him off? No? I didn't. I accidentally left him off and stuff. The first time I've accidentally left him off. Something just it happens, and you know he But see, I think it's a good example of that's what you're doing. You're this is when you start taking risks. The Cowboys have done it their whole like for sixty years. They've been doing this. You never know. I mean Antonio Gates, I don't remember when he was actually drafted. I mean

he didn't play. He didn't play a lot of football at all. He played played basketball. Turned out to be a great player. I mean, doesn't always work. Jimmy Graham worked, it didn't work, but I mean, you know, I think I think he he made expectations. You know, he can even say exceeded them because he actually played in a game. He learned how to do it and played in a game and he wasn't great, but he played something. He caught a couple of passes. He was a good preseason player.

So you know, it's fun to talk about while it lasted. Would I still wish they would have tried him at a different position and just given that a try, because he just didn't have the talent And I know he played basketball and all that, but he just didn't have the talent and the body flexibility to play that position at tight end. So I regret them not giving him a chance at another spot. Maybe he would have performed better there. But yeah, that's a total experiment. Yeah, I

think offensive line. I mean, it's just that's what I wish he would have done. His offensive line. I think he could have been a Yeah, they're really good. You look at the guy and the name parsation right now. No, but that's another example. But the guy ended up in Philadelphia, came from Buffalo, who's still playing for Philadelphia now. He was a guy that that originally was a that kind of athlete. I think it was a tight end, so

Don Andrews, No, I mean Jason Peters. Jason Peters, he was originally a tight end, right, Yeah, well yeah, I mean he went to Arkansas, he was originally defensive end until they needed him to be tied end and you know the level of athleticism exactly right, and turned into a really really good left tackle, right, So you're right, yeah, Ish, I mean, it will be on that ballot. I don't know if he gets it, but he'll be on that ballot. So so yeah, you're right. It could have turned into

something completely different. But I think everybody was hoping that this turns into go ahead, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, No, I was gonna say everybody was hoping this will turn into the next tight end that used to be a basketball player. Yeah, because that was you know, that's kind of been the m O. The problem is is that Jason Peters, Jeremy Parnell, those guys that they want to figure out a way to stay in the league and on their body types a little different too. Um, the

guys that probably should have done that but didn't. Rico Gathers, you can make the case for Martellis Bennett. I think Martell's Bennet could have been one of the greatest offensive tackle because he was a good blocker, really good blocker, and and and he showed at one year he showed he can get up to two ninety like in the off season, you know, uh, he could have he could

have carried that weight. Well, he's been really good. But demeanor wise, we know Martellis, we know Rico offensive tackles and that's not No, that's not what they want to do. And that's okay, that's okay too, But I mean it's hard to convince them of you know, you know, this could be a star position. It's like they're not dunking

over the goal post and making plays like that. But from a mentality standpoint, I don't know, not necessarily agree with that on Martellis because I do think ask him specifically, so this is I asked him specifically one time that and he goes like, I ain't gonna be no offensive tackling at me. I'm offensive tackles Like He's like, no, no,

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not that I'm And he played ten years as a tight end and made made a Pro Bowl and he's one of Super Bowl, is a contributor, you know, to the I think the Patriots. So he did it right. I'm just saying I think he could have been one of the better offensive tackles if he would have chosen that route this Hall of Famous. Sorry, I was gonna take the conversation somewhere else, completely off track. I took it to the two thousand and eight drafts.

It's fine, but you were talking about offensive tackle and then wait, and it made me think of le Collins. Have you guys seen him recently, like in pictures, Like how different? Like he's lost a lot of weight, Like, yes, he looks so much slimmer right now. And I get and I see people commenting going back to how he was, Like what was it? Was it last year where they were talking about him getting here out of shape, a little overweight or something. But he's on a diet or

something because he is slimmed down, for sure. I don't know. But well, I saw the pictures of the fishing, but I hadn't. I didn't notice him being slimmer. And maybe it's just kind of angles or whatever, but close, but he he's supposed to some where he's like dressed up or you know, a little shorts and type. Yeah he's wearing little shorts. Well not that little, but you know what I mean. It fitted close. Now you can tell how much slimmer his right now compared to what you're

used to seeing him. I thought that was a little unfair that that that happened last year, as you've been talking about him being overweight, now that he had hip surgery that ended his season. If you have hip surgery, if you need hip surgery, that means you have a hip problem. And if you have a hip problem, you're probably not running sprints. I mean, you're not walking, you're not doing anything. So his body type is one that if he sits around probably too much, he's not gonna

be He's not gonna look that great. So, yeah, he's probably out of shape because he needs hip surgery, you know. And and that's what happens, and it happens in the media, and why is he not playing? Then you hear it and report the next thing. You know, you got this image that he's sitting there watching the prices right, eat and twinkies all summer when he's really that's not the case. Snickers whatever, it's a sponsorship joke. Don't worry about it

all right, let's let's move on. I do think we have a couple of minutes where we can talk about maybe the first round pick of twenty seventeen one tackled Charlton what does he land for? You? Didn't make it through his first contract, did end up in Kansas City, was hurt last year. We still don't know what the rest of his career will be. But he made he got a couple of sacks. I want to say in

Kansas City, he had a couple of sacks here. There was some moments here where I was like, Okay, maybe he's gonna get it now, but never really quite got it, not enough for them to even keep him around for the end of his first contract. So where do you think he falls? I think he you know, he's one of those that he put all the meat on and the tour cream and guacamole and everything, and you ready

to just drops. Dang it, that's where it went. Because it all looking good, look ready to go, right as you just take that bike, it just kind of like, yeah, falls apart. Doesn't mean don't eat it, I mean you still figure it out how to eat. It's just not what you kind of expected it to be. So anyways, I think he was like your typical first round pick. I've said this all along. If his name was John Charlton, I don't think he would have been picked that high.

I don't. I think it was this Taco Michigan affects the scouting group. I know fans are like, oh Taco, but you think the scouting group cares about his name. So you put a last name on the jersey, and like, what would you worry about the first name. I think I think the whole thing. I think the whole mystique of him at all. I mean, he's got the high, he's got the look, he's got. The name is a lot of that. I think it just kind of goes

into it. I think the fans at Michigan probably think he was better, and then I think even the coaches all that, and then yeah, you look at the scouting, you see the plays. But I just I just think, you know, he gets down to it. He just he wasn't that good. Yeah, I do think names. I think that affects a lot of it. I really do the scouting. I think I'm not talking about just the scouting just like the Cowboys evaluating him. I'm talking about his whole

mystique from the time he's in Michigan and all that. Yeah, I think so. I think it does in a in a weird way, I do. I believe that. Okay, that's fair, but I mean he didn't he didn't. He definitely didn't perform like your first round pick should be. And they wanted him out of here. I mean, like, all the way, do you put him in the bus category he's got, Yes, he's got to be. He's got to be a bus.

They didn't even want him in on the team for a couple of years, I mean, to finish out of his contract, just like, let's get rid of this guy. So that that tells me all I need to know that that. Yeah, I mean they didn't even want him around it. They thought they were better off without him. So yeah, as a first round pick, Amber, Uh can't we use bust on this? Yeah? Okay, but uh po, Yeah, And to be fair, to be fair, he just didn't fit in, not just on the field, just in general

with the locker room. He just did not fit in with the group. And I guarantee you that affected just his overall performance if there was even gonna be some kind of growth and development. I mean mentally, that has to affect you when you just don't fit in with your own group that you're supposed to be working with, And I think that has a lot to do with it as well. But yeah, it just it wasn't good. Yeah. I think the damning part is you got a first

round pick that you decide midway through his first contract. Yeah, we're better off without him, not that we're gonna keep developing, not that he's gonna just not be active, Like literally, we're better off with him not on our team. That's when you get to that term bust in my opinion, because no one and no one's wildest expectations do they say I'm going to spend the first round pick on

someone he won't make us through his first contract. I've seen first round picks that don't play, they don't start, but that I mean when you're off the team, that's a whole different level. And for me, that's it's very clear that this was a bust pick. This may have been one of the worst pick the Cowboys have had from that standpoint of a first round pick, that doesn't

even make it through the first contract. And like I said before, sometimes you it's not just about the player that you were here and what you weren't, but it's the players that were on the table and we're drafted right behind you at the same position like a T. J.

Watt and you know, performing extremely well. And that's why then it goes back to like current coaches and stuff like that, when when McCarthy says, and and and Mike Nolan says, and then of course now Dan quinn when they say, you know, we're gonna run multiple schemes, Um, yeah, that might be harder to get them all on the field and figure it all out, you know, and do that.

But if if a t. J. Watt is sitting there with Tako Charlton and you're over here telling the media that we can play multiple schemes, then you better get the damn better football player like t. J. Watt. Don't tell me some crap that he can't fit in your scheme, because now you said your scheme could get anybody in here.

So that's where I hope we see a difference, is we don't see those type of situations where he doesn't really fit our scheme because I thought the scheme could fit at anyone And that's one of the reasons why I'm personally a believer in never drafting for a scheme because there's too much turnover in the NFL when it comes to coaches, players, the whole nine. So you don't know if you're going to be in the same scheme two, three,

four years down the road. And so for me, I'm like, give me the better football player and then coach figure out how to use them. If you got to change up some things in order to get the best out of that player. That's what coaching is, figure out how to put your people in the best position to be successful. All right, we appreciate you guys, Johns. We'll be back

next week. Well, we'll finish up this list. Will so far we can get on twenty seventeen, maybe we get twenty eighteen, and then maybe we'll have to finish the rest of it the week of the draft. We'll figure all that out. What day. Back next week so i'lsow us down even more. We'll see how that goes. We appreciate you joining us still there. For Nick eaven and Amber Garcia, I am Derek eagleson This has been The

Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. How