Cowboys Break: Biggest Position Of Need?

This is the break. No, I am not Derek Eagleton. No, I don't know what episode number this is, nor do I care. Yeah. Um, our two bosses just decided not to come to work today, So I am joined in the studio by well Amber Garcia holding it down. Fifty percent of our cast is here, joined by the lovely Brian broad Us, who agreed to come in and salvage our show today with half of our castetting out. Thank you for joining us, my man, I feel like big

guy for two guys. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm you know, that's kind of the approach I've taken today. How are y'all doing? Happy birthday too? You? Thank you? I'm start please Yeah, one more time, one more time. Okay, yes, it is me. Oh God, Kelsey Charles. It's a happy birthday from Kelsey too, it is. It is my birthday. I'm DeMarco Murray years old. Thank y'all. Yeah, not not what we're here for, though, we're here to talk about Cowboys football. I'm gonna do the Derek thing real quick, Brian,

We're gonna hit on some injury stuff real quick. David Irving did not practice yesterday, still dealing with his concussion. How word are you about that? Yeah? I think that we've all kind of learned. I know, Ambar and I did our periscope yesterday and we were talking about that, and you know, it's one of those things where if you know, you say, okay, he's doing things on the side. Well, let's see if him practice today. The pattern for them has been you practice, then we'll see how you are

the next day, and then you go from there. And now, if you know, now we're into the motive. If he doesn't do anything today, that takes him into Friday. And I don't know when when it's been the two days in a row thing. We've seen it with Jeff Heath. We saw it last week with him with David Irving, I'm a little bit skeptical if if he's going to play, so today is a huge, huge day for him, and I think they need him, I really really do. They're

they're trying to figure out, now what to do? You know at that three technique ross moving guys around in there? Is it? You know? Neil? I mean, who who is going to be that guy? I reserve the right to be wrong. I'm wrong all the time, but I have none of our profession. It's true when I mean, when you talk for an hour every day for a living, you're not going to be right about everything. Right. Sure, I have an inkling like he's going to do something

today the practice. Yeah, okay, if that's the case. If that's the case, then you know, all all your bets are off. But this is one of those ones that surprised me because I don't really know. I'm asking people when it happened, and he well, he had the long weekend. You know that happened and on a Thursday night. He had the long weekend. And I'd hate to make light of a head injury, but you would think that the

extra time off would help him out in that regard. Oh, I absolutely do, But I just I worry about, like I say, show me practicing today. Yeah, and because if he doesn't practice today, if he shows up as a DNP or limited, you know, tell me what point limited is it? Is it taken one rep per eight? Yeah, you know, don't be that guy. I'm holding out hope that he gets out there, Okay, and if he doesn't, we can revisit this. Neat him to play in this game.

I agree with you with this offensive line. Yeah, Tyrant Smith and Lyle Collins both didn't practice, but we're into a we're into a routine with them, right, Yeah. I mean we were talking about that yesterday, Brian and I. And that's one of the things that now it's at first it was worried some like you were concerned, but at this point, after seeing how it's being week by week, you begin to say, Okay, maybe that's just what they're doing,

and at least for alcohol. And he's been good so far and that hasn't really affected his way of playing and soul. Yeah, hasn't. I was gonna ask you about that. Are you surprised how well Collins has played without practicing, Yes, yes, yeah, like unbelievably. I mean, he's it's not like he's playing against Slappy's. He's playing against some legitimate and you and you put the list together on Twitter, yeah, and you know, and to me, I'm thinking, this guy needs to practice.

He's got to know the assignments he's got. But you know what, I think my discussion we had on our show yesterday was about the fact that he's playing next to Zach Martin. I think helps. Yeah, if you were playing next to a guy that wasn't any good, you know, and all of a sudden, you're not practicing. And now

I think there's times where Zach Martin helped him. Maybe if there was a little bit of a mess, he can kind of clean up the mess where if he had a guy a little bit less of you know, say you had h John Jerry for the you know, for the for the New York Giants playing in there, and then maybe it's a little bit more like boy, he needs a pride. You know. What's amazing to me is not too long ago we were talking about this guy trying to kind of get used to the position

and being able to play well and consistent. You're right, now, he's not even practicing, and he's still doing great. Jason Garrett doesn't want to hear me say this, but like maybe he just shouldn't practice because he looks awesome out there without any practice time. I mean, he's going against JPP and Olivier Vernon and Ryan Carrigan. I'm gonna walk to the edge here with you, guys. I'm gonna walk to the edge and stand and look over the edge. Is he one of your top three offensive linemen? Oh?

Has he? Has he been playing as one of your top three of the five guys? Oh? Ye? All right, Scott say, I don't know if I can follow you there yet. I know Tyron Smith, this is a problem. I'm loving what she's saying about. Hey, he's playing well, and you and your name is definitely getting up there. He's like right there on the line. This has been a down season for Tyring. He's battled injuries, He's been called for holding five times. He negated a big touchdown

against what was in LA. I've been chargers. I still don't think he's a better player than Lyle right now. It's not a knock on life again, just to this season what you've seen so far. Yeah, I still I stand by that life's trying to draw you guys off side, and I couldn't do it. Oh, come on, couldn't do it? Okay, Um, just kind of seeing the level of where you're at. I now know here's a phrase that really scares me. Uh it's James Hannah DNP with a knee with a

knee specifically because that's been an issue for him. I don't, honestly I apologize. I don't have a whole lot of info about it. He's the classic guy that Jason Garrett's not gonna give you in for injury information unless you ask. You gotta ask. Well, we didn't know James Hannah had a problem until he didn't show up for PRAC this yesterday. So that's something that we're going to keep an eye on going forward this week. I don't have a big update for you other than that, Yeah, hey, no, that

was a heck of a catch, great cash. Let me ask you this, though, are you you feel better about about Jeff Swaying as a blocker as opposed to what you have with James Hannah From what you got. I mean, you guys are there every day, you're in the middle of all that you're watching these games and am I crazy? And I don't mean this as a knock on Jeff Swam. I don't think he's had a bad year. But I thought he was better last year. He stood out more like more better place. He was more of a part

of it. It seemed like like you saw his contributions a little bit more. He had those boot actions. I'll never I mean the fourth down against Washington, that's I mean that that's the number one play in his highlight reel to this point in his career. I would think she'll tell you though, that you watched the toss sweep, you know, the toss sweep that they had that scored with they scored with Rod Smith who who crashed the who? Thereything crashed down inside. I think he's a very underrated

player for this team. I do. I think Jeff Swain is one of those guys. And here we are having tight in talk. But it brings into what Hannah sure, I don't. I don't feel terrible about James Hannah not practicing knowing what I know about what I think I can get from Jeff Swain. And and and I know we had a he had a great catch the other day. That was a great extent catch sure, But how many times have we said, oh, they threw the ball to Hannah again and it's incomplete, and it's oh, it's you know,

I mean, but they don't throw him the ball. And you could say the same thing now about Jeff Swain, if you want to make an argument, I don't know that. And again I'm not trying to knock anybody, but I don't know that the drop off from Witt and Hannah Swain to Witten Swain Jarwin is like something that's going to sink them, you know what I mean, Like I think that I think you can get by, it'll sink you if you don't block that. Well, sure, Jlio Mack,

and that's your plan. Yeah, no, Well we just talked about Alile's got that he's gonna hold it, don't all by himself. It's fine. I would kind of look maybe give him a little bit of hot I'd look for a little help over and that I said this just kind of just being on your show. I'll give you a little insight, little help. That's some next level insight right there. You gotta block Khalil Mack gotta that's not next level at all. Um, all right, I'm gonna switch gears.

I know Bryce Butler was a DNPA. He wasn't even active on Sunday. I mean, we'll see how he goes as the week goes on. But I want to talk to you. We did Oakland's offense yesterday, but I want to talk to you about Amari Cooper. Yeah, we don't know if he's gonna play. Look limpy in that case game he looked very limpy. He's got a bad ankle. Uh Like. I mean, we're not gonna know until the week goes on a little bit more. But tell him, like why why what's going on with they they are

not catching the ball? Well, that group is not catching the ball as a whole. I think that has been a big, big issue. You know, you think the Cowboys, if we were on talking Raiders or the Raiders break or whatever, we'd be talking about why these receivers not catching the football. I mean that's a big, big issue for these guys. You watch the ball going down the field. The cow Boys need to make this a contested game. They need to make this a contested game with the

with the Oakland receivers. Don't give them any free access. Don't let them drive on ball, don't let them do anything to get their hands on football. Because every play that I've seen so far that they've had drops on a lot of it has been contested stuff. You just can't teams that have got to the Raiders receivers, it's been contested footballs that's made them drop the ball. What do you attribute this to? It's I think the parallels

are really interesting. We talked about this before. I mean, these are arguably, based on the expectation and where we're at now, maybe the two most disappointing teams in the NFL. I think you could throw the Buccaneers in there. Yeah, that's now. And now with the whether Denver Broncos started in what they are now, that's another one of those disappointing teams. Do you agree with my overall point? Oh? Absolutely, I do so. And another similarity, these wide receiver corps

are not having great seasons. No, they're not. We can talk about it for the Cowboys. I mean we've hit on a lot of those issues. Separation, quarterback accuracy, that's and you're telling so you're telling me these Oakland receivers just can't beat coverage. So they've they've really they've struggled. They have. I mean, you watch what Kansas City was able to do to them and even to the Giants to a point. You know, they they contested a lot of footballs. And I was going to ask Ambar about

this because we always talk about the young secondary. Can't can this defense make contested plays with what you've seen, guys from Cheeto and Lewis, I'm a little if you on Scandrick going this weekend. By the way, Yeah we didn't even hit you didn't mention him, but I wanted to ask you about that. Fine, you threw a little bit of shade all three. I'm just saying. I mean, I liked what I've seen from the rookie so far, and yeah, they've done a good job. Yeah they haven't perfect,

but they've done a good job. And honestly, you don't have anything better than that. It's all yeah, So okay. We feel good though that you can go out and make contested plays in this game. These dudes. And when I say these dudes, I mean Cheeto and Jordan and n Xavier, like they made plays on the ball on Sunday A yeah, afternoon. I always want to say night, but they played at noon. Yeah, I mean Jordan Lewis can tests everything that comes his way. Cheeto made the

play that led to the Shawn Lee interception. It tests the ball inside too. Yeah, maybe it should have been a flag, but he broke up that pass down the sideline where he kind of launched himself. I think I think he kind of got away with one a little bit, but it didn't get called, so it counts as a

good play in my book. Yeah, I'm I'm intrigued and excited about what I see from those guys in the sense that they do those types of things where they're making plays on the ball in the air if they haven't done it yet, but I could see them reading a route and maybe jumping a ball, like how how long has it been since we saw a Dallas cornerback Like jump a route? Yeah, I'll knock one down. Yeah, don't let the ball get inside. That's how I see.

I'm gonna I ask you real quick though, too, about that that whole thing though, you know, playing routes and stuff like that. Would it surprise you though if they tried to get Anthony brownmore involved saying some slot stuff instead of Woods, Are you okay, you're obvious, okay with what you've seen with the majority of the things, But if you had to pick one thing out, do you worry about Woods playing in the slot? I don't think Woods has been bad, but I don't know that I've

see a trust him. It hasn't looked so amazing that I'm just comfortable like he's just shutting people down, right, Yeah, And honest, I mean he I think he's a safety and he just doesn't Obviously he's got quick twitch and athleticis I mean, he's an NFL defensive back, but he's not as faster as quick as Anthony Brown is. I don't like. I mean, I think Anthony Brown's skill set fits that a little bit. See, I think they're in that mode MBAR where they're gonna think about do we

see do we see? Okay? Do we need to get Anthony Brown on the field. We need to get his confidence back, you know? And is playing the slot going to get his confidence back? And is he a better option in the slot than Xavier Woods? I would I would guess it's probably about the same right now. But I mean, I mean, I'm I'm into seeing what he can I feel like I've seen more noticeable mistakes from Anthony Brown over the course of the year. Yeah, yeah, But she's not wrong. I would argue that's why he's

trying to find a spot right now. You're right about that. I would argue that he's been on the field more than exaction he has. True. And so I mean, the larger your sample size, especially at defensive back, the large the larger chance you're gonna mess up. I know, you gotta get to break something here. We got, okay, a few minutes, shortleash, long leash. Now of what you've seen with has your opinion of those guys gone from a short leash to okay, we need Scandric out there, we

need you know, we need Brown out there? You know? Is it for the young guys? Is it a longer leash? Now? This is this is a really I don't want to say fun but it's an interesting spot for the secondary for me because I think everybody's got a long leash, because I mean, the season is already well, but man, you are hinging on being in the playoffs. Potentially you are, but it's not like there's somebody else that's this massive upgrade. Well,

she said that that's exactly what she said. Yeah, you know, Orlando Scandrick has had a good season, but I don't he's not going to make the Pro Bowl, and your safeties, you know, you're shuffling your safeties you basically is that the bigger question? I guess The point I'm trying to make is just that I want to see these young guys because we've we've seen, we've seen what the rest

of this looks like. And to this point, the young guys they haven't been amazing, but they haven't been so bad that they just don't belong on the field, right Like, you're not thinking about drafted a corner right at whenever you draft, grow these guys into the fire, like the whole cliche, iron sharpens, iron like, let them harden up in the fire, and hopefully when they're done playing this month, you can look at them as a strength of your

team going into twenty eighteen, whether you make the playoffs or not, you can sit back and say, man, we got about six dbs that we really feel like can play. Were you on board with them letting go of all their defensive backs last year to play these kids? Well, I mean, at the beginning of the season. It was very concerning. We all know how bad the secondary was, and it's finally getting to that point where to me personally, I think I'm really seeing some true improvement and something

that gives me hope moving forward. And we just had to wait for these rookies to get healthy. They just had, you know, those hurdles along the way. That's the point the beginning of the season, the hurdles and the health. Yeah, they had to get over the hurdles, but they had to have their health. It's a shame it happened so late in a year. Yeah, but I mean they're still playing.

I mean they're still playing for a shot. But it's a shame that they couldn't in a week three after the Denver debacle just say hey, this is what we're gonna do. I would argue that, I mean, the secondary isn't the reason why this team is where it is, though, you know, I'd be interesting to hear where you're going with this. I mean, the run defense more than anything else, and then the income. That's what Sean Lee. Without Sean Lee, hasn't it been, Yeah, I mean it is what it is.

Sean Lee Anthony Hitchins. You've missed both of them for stretches of the season. Yeah, I mean this team hasn't gotten torched really in the passing game by anybody other than maybe Aaron Rodgers up rivers. Well okay, yeah, that's that. You got me there that I don't. It hasn't been this theme like if you twenty thirteen, you can look at the second say, oh my god, yeah that was a disaster. Yeah, it's been up and down, But like

I said, I'm excited to see where it stands. When these guys have had a chance to play the whole month of December and get some games. You might your playoff lives might be in those kids hands, right, because no time like the present to get some experience. Yeah, Like it's not like it's not like there's you know, Burry Church isn't on the sideline. He's in Jacksonville. So like you don't have a better option anyway, you might as well see what these guys got. Yeh. What was

Shaan Lee listed out on injury yesterday? Sean Lee? He limited? I think he was limited, But I think that's more like him being Shawn Lee, you know what I mean, Like that's maintenance. Yeah, mate, I mean he took a series off in the game for maintenance. He's I think we're gonna put it. I think they're putting him in the same boat as as Collins and Tied. Yeah, they're not going to practice m on Wednesday, and like, okay, let's get Thursday. I mean, I know Jason Garrett's for practice,

but I am in favor of that, I think. And Sean Lee's one guy. I am not worried about seeing him not practicing during the week. Like, I'm okay, if you want to sit down, sit down, you deserve it. I trust you take Wednesday off, take Thursday too. If it's going to help you play better. Hey, you are? You are going at it all right? We gotta take our first break. This is the Dave, Amber and Brian Show. We're gonna dab on y'all for the rest of this hour. How about that. We'll be back on the other side.

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Back to the break, Oh, the leading guy set it for me. I was about to say we're back on the break, but it's redundant at this point. Joined by Amber Garcia, Brian brought us. I'm David Hellman. Thanks for being with us here on this beautiful Thursday. Brian, this is my favorite part of the show because because you don't have to do it today. Derek always makes me scout the opposition. Yeah, I got a newfound respect for you,

my guy, because it's it's hard work. Like you got to watch the tape and figure out formations and all sorts of other crap. It's a lot of stuff and I want you to do it for me today. So you're interested, hum, give me a just start start us off. I'm gonna ask you a few questions after that, but start us with a brief overview of just what we're looking at with this Oakland defense. Yeah, they've had their

share of struggles. That the problem that you know the Giants last week they had the rushers, the secondary was bad. Similar situation of what's going on right now with the Raiders. They don't do a very good job of denying people in routes. But what you have to be leary of what they do is their pass rush. You have to be worried about Khalil Mack. You just cannot let him take over a game. He's gonna play primarily over lyle Collins. They'd like to move him around, you know when you

talked about him, Bruce Serving. This is another team again, we've seen it now, it's been a trend the last four weeks with teams having two legitimate pass rushers. So your hope is that Tyrn Smith can can take Bruce Serving out of the game and don't have to worry about him. But they will do something. Will they put Bruce Serving and then Khalil Mack on the same side of the field, and they'll try and wreck your scheme of maybe Okay, we're gonna slide the line this way,

or we're gonna single this, double that. So you just have to be alert about, Okay, where it is going to, where's fifty two and fifty one on the field, and are they together? You know, that's where the identification needs to take place. But the pass rush is their best weapon when it comes to because they don't create any turnovers. This team just does not get any turnovers. And that's that's been a huge problem. Now it's good to hear watching the Giants game. Khalil Mack. They got down into

they got down in the red zone. Giants are trying to score right before the half. Gino Smith drops back and what happens. They blow the protection and then here comes Khalil Mack around the edge. Tomahawks the ball out of Gino Smith's hands, Raiders recover ball going the other way. You know, everything bad has happened to you here you have a chance to score and then you just state but they don't. They don't create turnovers, they and they don't intercept the ball. They don't get you know, that

was a fumble, sack fumble. But that's the thing I would be worried about though. If you get in a situation where you do breakdowns on your offensive line, but you have to feel good about the way this offensive line has played. The last you do, you do And again we talked about I think Amber made a really good point about the way Collins has played. I tried to get you guys to say he was the third

best offensive lineman. That tells me right there. You're like, no, no, no, you still have Tyrn Smith, you still have Travis Frederick, you still have Zach Martin. But I don't think it's I still don't think he's one of the best three, but like he's playing at a level where like, well, no, I was just trying to but but you kind of told me there's three other guys, so there's four guys and then throwing what Jonathan Cooper has been able to do.

I think that for the most part. You know, I thought they did a nice job against the Giants last week. There were more pocket passes last week than what we've seen. So I just think this week you're going to see a little bit more help with Lyle Collins. When we get into that twelve personnel, one back, two tights, thirteen personnel, one back, three tight ends, I think you're gonna see a little bit more of that. I think they're gonna make Khalil Mack run the hump a little more, try

and keep them a little bit wider. That's what I really worry about. I don't worry about their secondary particular. I don't think Dexter McDonald. I don't think Sean Smith are going to do anything to scare me. Like I say, you know, they drafted the kid Conley. He's on IRY and he was one of those guys that they were really, really hopeful. You know that we when we saw him Dave last year on the Draft show, we thought he was one of the best quarterbacks in the in the draft,

and so here he is on IR. So they're struggling in the secondary. Reggie Nelson Karl. Joseph was a guy they drafted in twenty sixteen and the first round pick. Though you know, he's a guy that has not really lived up to the big hit promise, which he was. So there were two. There were two. Keyan O'Neill was

the other one, right, Keyan O'Neil is playing like a gangbuster. Yeah, Tom Dimitroff got the right guy and so which you know, I think of them to get like I think of them in the same thought basically, right, you're telling me Joseph has not been Joseph has not been as good as Neil. That that that has been factual? Is it? So?

I don't I don't remember the exa back day, but the Raiders actually fired their defensive coordinator mid season, Cowboy Ken Norton brighter right, John Pagano, Now, yeah, did you go did you go back far enough to watch any games when Norton was still I just I kind of I figured without Norton being there that they were that's fair that they just gonna do. See what the scheme was.

I get. Well. The reason I bring it up is if you had asked me, like a month ago, Bruce about Bruce Irvan I would have said he's having he's having a disappointing time, and sure, but he's caught on in these last few games he has And that's the thing about it. That's that's where I worry because, to me, if the Cowboys are gonna have problems in this game, I think there's a couple of things you have to look at it. And actually in matchups today I wrote

about Navarro Bowman, the middle linebacker for the Raiders. Boy Navarro Bowman here would have been. He just couldn't get him to leave the bear. He's a family guy, he's got his kids. You think they could have backed up a Brinks truck. I would have tried. I would have tried. But you know, you're talking about a guy with some injuries. But he's a guy. They're gonna have to account for him in this game. If you're gonna want to run the football, you're gonna have to count for Navara Bowman.

If you remember the San Francisco game, not this year, but last year, Dallas was struggling running the football, really weren't getting anything going on offense. Then Bowman goes out of the game all sudden. Then the gates open up same type of player. If Travis Frederick and the inside guys Cooper and also Martin, they can't allow him to just run. It would be very similar to what the

Giants did last week with Sean Lee. You know, if you don't block him, if you don't get a hat on him, if you don't take care of him, he's capable of making every single tackle. So that's where you're you know in the middle. Watch that here you got these guys screaming the edges. Now you've got a guy that could play the middle as well as he does. That's that's a problem. So we've we've given a lot of love to their pass rush and clear I mean if Navara Bowman, but the secondary has been which awful?

I want to zone in on that. Which of these matchups do you like for the Cowboys When you're just thinking about how you think it's gonna play out? I mean, is this which I mean, we've been looking for this all year and haven't really seen it, But is this a Dez game? This could be? I think I think this is a I think this is a Dez game as far as you know, maybe a seven for maybe a seven for eighty something kind of a game, you know, finding way. I think there's some routes that I think

they're going back and getting not going back. They're gonna keep hitting the slant routes. They're gonna keep hitting the digs, the deep ends, things like that, things where he could come inside and separate. They need him to win right off the line. That's where that's where, that's where he's at his absolute best. When he can win right off the line. When he does that, then you have a chance. I don't think McDonald or smith. Smith is probably the better of the two to have to make the coverage

on him. They got this Travis Carry who will play the nickel. He's kind of listed as a starter, but he's really more of a nickel player. But that that could be a win for your right there. With Bees, I don't see a dynamic I don't see any dynamic players in that secondary and that and that's a little bit like what the Giants had last week. He had one dynamic player landing Collins, and then everybody else were pretty much slappies, which the great choice of words right there.

I hear everything that you're saying and stuff, But again, it's one of those things not like the Cowboys wide receivers have been dynamic. Yeah either that's that's fair, It doesn't. Yeah, it matters that their secondary is not good. But when you look at the place and good thing that we saw does making some places towards the end of the

second half of the game against New York. But again we've seen those plays where yeah, the corner is there, but it's still not because of the corner covering him. It's more because oh, he dropped the ball or he couldn't catch it, or you know. Get She's absolutely right. I get in that argument with people all the time where they're like, well, their secondaries not any good, and I'm like, you watched these team games, like our receivers

aren't very good either. So I think she makes a great point in that, because again, the Cowboys can't come out of this game. To me, I don't anytime long yardage, third down, you know, you don't want to get in that the thing, the thing that without Ezekiel. And then again this is only for one more week. You know that that that down in distance of second and nine, you know, or second and ten, you know, and then all of a sudden you throw it in complete and

it's third and ten. You just don't want to get in. You don't convert a lot of those. Some teams are capable of it, and some teams aren't. Dallas is one of those teams that doesn't play very well at third and ten. They just don't do it. And it's to Amber's point that when you get receivers that get contested plays, we you know, we talk about the Raiders receivers, the Cowboys are in the same boat. We've seen the ball

clang off Terrence Williams when you throw at a contested ball. Yeah, We've seen Cole Beasley lose a ball in the sun. We've seen things happen to these receivers that that we didn't see last year, and that that's that's a detriment to this offense. Does does the I don't want to say the emergence, but yeah, does the breakout of Rod Smith against New York do anything for you? I don't. I'm not expecting it to change the way that they

approached this. Yeah, but having seen what he can do, does that change how you want to what do you play this thing at all? Do you think I mean, you know, do you think they change? Do you think do you think so, I mean, it sound like this coaching staff. Yeah, I don't see that. I would imagine them starting Alfred Morris again and just kind of doing what they've been doing and rotating in. She's right. You both are right to me. You're both right. It's coaches

hate change. Everybody's like, well, gosh, play start rod Smith still, Yeah, start up ahead and start. You know, no, coaches don't think that way. They're think, Okay, what have we had

success doing on first and second down? And even though rod Smith has had some really some I think that was the first game that we saw Rod Smith that reminded us of the preseason, you know, when I was on our show, you know, with with you know, talking about that, I was like, for the six weeks that Zeke was gone, I was screaming, give me the mean, nasty sob guy, whoever that guy is, give me that guy to tote the ball for six weeks. I need to have my offense be physical. I need my running

game to get going. I need to establish things. And I've kind of thought rod Smith was that guy, and then he kind of cream puffed me for a couple of times, a couple of games where I was like, you stop running like that, you'll run a little better, you know. And then I think last week against a giant defense that you know, the front four is very capable, but we saw a better vision, we saw better cuts, we saw more physical runs. You know you're gonna need

that in this game. You needed to find a way to kill the Raiders will to compete, and the way the Cowboys do that is with their offense. I wonder if they think of Rod Smith as their closer like we got. We got a sturdy, like veteran guy who can get us through the first seven innings and Alfred Morris and then send in the six three tank guy who you know you don't want any party. Have they

used him like that in five games? I thought they used him like that against New York I mean no, no, but I'm saying for the five but the five games since Seek's been gone, I don't think they started using him enough until probably the way Washington game. I don't have. That's some stats in front of me. But he wasn't getting the work. That's to her. That's to her point. Why would coaches not switch? I mean, see, that's what

we get into. We talk about this every day. But on the other side of the building, they're thinking, we're gonna run Alfred. We're gonna run Alfred. Okay, let's put Smith in. We're gonna run off. You know, you're you're kind of like going, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, put the guy in it, you know. But we've seen when Alfred has gotten going, then they put Rod Like we've seen those scenarios. It's like rhyme reason. We are like,

why don't they make the switch? But then they make a switch and he's like, okay, why are you making the switch now? So these are the same guys that, Yeah, these are the same guys that take Zeke off the field, you know once a half for Alfred, or put Lance Dunbar in there in a situation. Right, I don't know. Right, doesn't make sense. Now, you're you're right, You're right. You gotta be You're gonna have to be able to move the ball against these guys and teams half teams half.

But you've got it. You've got to figure out a way. I worry more about I worry about their pass rush I do. I worry about that a lot, because again, could could you know let's hope not. Could we see the one bad game? Yeah? From you know, it only takes one. Yeah, we saw what happens in Atlanta when a pass rush takes over the game. It's a disaster. Let me ask you a real football one on one question. I'm not I'm not always the expert I paint myself to be. Why don't more teams do what you're talking

about here? With Irvin and Matt coming from the same side, especially if you think you have a favorable matchup. Yeah, I don't know that. Just give up on Tyrn Smith and ye try to get other and you know what that that happened last week in the game if you remember, because because what they did was they took Olivier Vernon and they put him on Yeah, they put him on

a Lile Collins side. He started the game, Jason Pierre Paul played basically a half over on the on the on the right side, and Olivier Vernon, who they feel like he's their best pass rusher, went up against Loud Collins. I think that's why Annabar was thinking, this guy played pretty well. This guy man I Olivia Vernon didn't really you know, he kind of held him held him in check. So yeah, it just seems like it makes sense. Yeah. No, but you know teams, teams will scheme you that way.

They you know, why try a team that does that, like a New England will do that. New England will take their best players and put them next to each other. So the best the best coach team. Yeah, do that. See, but that's what I'm saying. You've got it to me. I always look at matchups. Who is your worst player, I'm gonna attack that guy. I'm gonna make you. I'm gonna make you change, and then if you change, then I'm gonna go attack another guy. But I'm figuring out

that goes back to your adjustments. It's not all about Okay, we're gonna play more zone more man. No, who is your worst guy out there and I and I'm not gonna cover your worst receiver, But whoever your best receiver and tied in is, I'm gonna I'm gonna cover them all day. That's all I do it. In in that vein, who are you going after? I mean, if you're the coach, scheme, I'm going after Dexter McDonald and secondary boom. Yeah. Number

twenty three I'm going after Dexter McDonald cornerback. Yeah, whoever number twenty three is, find him, feed des feed des exactly right. I'll tell you what we're gonna do. We're gonna take an early break. When we come back. We're gonna get to y'all because I feel personally like Derek doesn't do that enough. Amber. We're gonna do Twitter questions. If y'all want to call in the numbers two one, four, eight seven two twenty one oh two, we'll be right back.

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Back to the break, Hey, we're back on the break and Amber, do you know do you know what a true cowboy loves? No, tell me he loves his freedom. Oh yeah, Well, Tommy John gives you that freedom. It's a feeling freedom where accounts with a contour pouch that nestles you in fabrics. She can barely feel just if you were wondering, nice I wish I could feel? I mean, Amber, you can because you can shop exclusive Cowboys underwear at Tommy john dot com forward slash Cowboys for twenty percent

off your first order. And honestly, I think I think you would enjoy it, even if it is marketed toward one. It's very comfortable. It is. It's my birth so it's like wearing nothing at all. Yeah, it's my birthday. And if anybody felt like sending me some um, you can just mail it to the Star. That would be really nice. I appreciate it. There you go. We're gonna take a phone call Kent from Chris and Virginia. Chris, what's going on? Hey,

fella's happy holidays? Thanks, Hey are you doing? And happy birthday? And happy late birthday to Brian. Thank you. I tweeted you, guys. I tweeted you the other day day. Man, I'm a huge fan of you and Brian. You guys do a great job. All y'all do a great job. I really appreciate that. Man. Um, I think I got some Tommy Johns and my stocking. I think I peaked there. You go. Good for you. It would be a great Christmas. I

got two quick questions, um um Elsie Um Collins. He came out in the same draft as Flowers, right, would that be Trey Flowers? No, the flowers, the flowers from the giants, the giants. Oh I'm sorry, Yeah, Eric Flowers yeah, Eric Flowers, that was Sheriff and Sheriff fifteen. Yeah, Sheriff and and and Flowers And yes, absolutely Collins was in that draft, right. Do you think the Giants were targeting him until that's that negative stuff came out about him

that I don't believe at all. I have it on very good authority that actually, well maybe the Giants, but the Redskins too, right lyle maybe goes as high as five if none of that happens. Yeah, I think what happened. I think what happened real quick is that when the when the Redskins took Sheriff, boy, that messed up the That messed up the Giants. Yeah, and then they said, okay, let's take the next best tackle they felt like, but there were so many questions about Collins that they couldn't

do that. Now. At the time, Tom Coughlin was a coach there, so that's a you know, he's a kind of a Big ten guy. He's that he likes that, that kind of a player. The Giants traditionally have drafted offensive lineman from the Big ten. If you go ball the way back to like Jumbo Elliott and those guys from Michigan and things. So yeah, they were they were looking at Now Collins wouldn't have had the problems. I feel like that he would have been a top ten pick,

no question for sure. Yeah. Um. Add one more thing that the two years deal he got. Do you think that was just like a proved deal or he's going to demand a lot more money after how he's been playing the last couple of weeks. I don't think of it so much as a proved deal. I think of it as let's be fair to you type of deal. I mean, you know, the Cowboys got him for undrafted money, which is, you know, absurd when you think of the

talent level. He started a season for them, he lost his job due to injury, and then you know, so you're you're entering year three of what should have been a top ten year without having made a ton of money. And then obviously they promote him to starting right tackle. And I think I think it's one. I think it was about the potential that they saw on him to

be a quality starting tackle. And then on the other side, hey, we know you are vastly under earning what you're worth, so we're going to throw you a bone and we're going to give you a short deal that will allow you to maximize your worth in a couple of years.

I think this was a good will deal. Yeah, that kind of say, Okay, in the future, let's see how you're going to play, and if you continue to play on the trajectory that he has been, then then it becomes okay, well we got to figure out some them to do long term and he'll be in line. But it keeps him happy, right, because they're gonna get Zack Martin done, right, and that would be then you'll have then you'll have all four of your lineman done. But

and that's good. If Lyell keeps playing the way he's playing, yeah, then it might. He's gonna be a tough guy to sign when that deal does come up. Absolutely, But I wish some fans would have understand how the cap works can't keep them all. You gotta let them go. But I don't. I don't want to let him go. They're

gonna learn that about Anthony Hitchens. That was a mail back question that we had this morning, because they drafted they drafted Jalen Smith that played Mike linebacker, and I think that's I think that's where people are going to have a really hard time. This is gonna be very similar to what happened to Bury Church in my opinion. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, that they're just gonna let a player like him walk because they're gonna have to

figure out some other things to do. And my last question, guys, and I appreciate everything. I'll do. Um that safety that um the Raiders guy. I think it was malifol Lou. I can't pronounce it. Ye wanted him how he been looking? And I'll take it off the air, and you guys have a happy holiday, And I appreciate it, thank you very much. Yeah, I haven't seen him much at all.

I'm gonna say we didn't even talk about him. Yeah, And it's interesting because we thought he was a guy that had, because of his size, had the ability to cover that he was going to get more of a play. But he has not shown up, and he hurt for most of the year or something. He's I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I think he's still Yeah, he's still he's still in that's actually right. He's still in the mix with the Raiders. But you do not in the games I study, you do not see him

involved in a lot of their plays. And I want to take a question from Amber, but I kind of I love talking and salary cap stuff. I kind of want to go back to that if we have a minute. But Amber, what you got for us? Well soon? So you guys were talking about Anthony Hitchings in case he does indeed walk away? Yeah, what um draft round would that come in? The whole position of this is fascinating to me because the way to go, that's a good job. That's I should have just I should have just trusted

you to pick out a good question. You did. That's what I wanted to talk about it. Anyway, Yeah, I I I'm fat sated by that because Anthony Hitchins is he's so underrated. In my opinion, he's hugely under He's such a big part of what they do at linebacker. They're four or five and oh when they have Lee and Hitchins on the field together. That's great that they drafted Jalen Smith to play Mike. He has shown some

flashes of having some real ability. Yeah, but can you afford to go into next season with Jalen and Lee just being your plan? I mean no, No, They're gonna early two year old that gets hurt often, and a guy that is not one hundred percent back from a major injury. You need to see, you know, that's why people are already interested in the linebacker at Georgia. Yeah, you know, absolutely. But the thing about it is he plays the same position as Sean Lee. Really, he's gonna

be an off ball will. That's fine, So yeah, but I mean, do you move Sean Lee? Arnestly? You draft him and have him Sean Lee? And fine if Smith, if you're telling me I could get Roquan Smith. Let's say they pick seventeen. Let's say he's there. I don't know if he will be, but whatever. If you're telling me he's not a starter in his rookie year, but he is a phenomenal and shurance policy for both Jalen and Sean and he can find his way out on

the field in certain packages. Anyway, I'm awesome with that. And then so then you're grooming a future Will to hopefully play next to Jalen, but he can also be a quality replacement for both of those guys. What position on this team do you have the most trouble with? Just the position you have to name any players what

position bothers? You, I mean it would have to be safety, the safeties bother See that's I mean, everybody's gonna have this is gonna be this is gonna be a fun discussion this year because I think you would be different than maybe what I would be. We're all would come up with something because I feel like I need a lot of things. Yeah, so I'm saying that mean you you say, okay, what can we can You can you live with Jalen Smith and Sean Lee and not a

first round linebacker Dave. I can live with Jalen Smith if he's playing at his best. We've seen maybe forty percent of the time. See, that's what everybody's thinking. They're thinking that Jayalen Smith in twenty eighteen, I should make that that's but that's a that's a projection. I was gonna say, I hope that's true. But can you go into the year just oh, you know they will they I know they will. I told I said this show yesterday.

I can picture it in my mind so clear. Like in fact, where at the combine, Stephen and Jerry are telling us that like, no, like Jalen's great, he's gonna be fine, and like, no, we don't have a backup plane, like this is gonna Then we get through the draft and we're all like, why didn't they draft a lineback? Exactly?

The surgery. I mean, I don't know much about surgeries and stuff like that how it all works, but the surgery he got is that one of those things that you could you know, you could re injure yourself all the time, but it's just something that has a lot of high stakes of injuring yourself. See the thing that And that's a great that's a good question because they feel like though with the regeneration of the nerve, that

he'll get that quickness. But now he might not be what he was notre Dame, but he might be a guy that Oh wait, he's starting to make more burst plays. He's starting to run guys down again. I would argue we've seen that from time to time, especially in this stretch when Lee and Hitchens have been healthy and he's only being asked to play twenty or so snaps per game. You've seen that burst and when he gets there, he hits like a ton of bricks. Right. I love him

when he's playing great. I can't go into a season trusting that that's going to be the case. Are you more scared of him or not drafting somebody. I'm more scared of not having a fallback plan. So you want to draft somebody, you need to. I just made my decision. You have to draft somebody. And like I said, hey, you have to Sean Lee. He's so important, he's so good. But how how he's he will be thirty two? I mean, oh no, I mean linebackers are the running backs of

the A defense. Like they don't We got to show every Friday during the off season. You guys, Award, welcome to show up. Garcia. You don't play. You don't play till you're forty. I'm just thinking of, for example, the whole Seek situation. The Cowboys knew about it forever, right true, and then and we saw how they struggle and the whole team went down. Now we are at a point that we know the linebacker situation. Yeah, so it better get addressed and taken care of because once that happens

and Sean Lee comes down again or something. Oh, they knew that this could happened. Yeah, okay, Well then let me ask you guys this what's your priorities signing Anthy Hitchens? I mean, we're all we're all coming up with great ideas. Ambler's like, let's draft. Dave's like, let's draft. Here's the thing. But what about? What about? What would you do? Who would you sacrifice to keep Anthony Hitchens. It's he's a high priority, but it's just low level realistic, you know,

like I wouldn't think it was realistic. Just told me they don't lose football games in him and Lee play. How am I supposed to put aside twenty five to forty million dollars to resign him? And I don't know what the price tag will be, but it will be a lot of money. That's and you're already you're you have to tag the Marcus, you get rid of Scandrick to uh, you get rid of Scandrick to take his money to do that, and then you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul. I'm asking you, would you read who

do you take? I'm not okay I was unfairly took scander Cat, but I'm just trying to think of guys you got only as he did that because of the young secondary, the young secondary. That's the only reason why I took Standric out of the mix. I would be willing to bet that the savings on doing something like that still wouldn't be enough to really cover your costs. Like I think Anthony Hitchins is going to be paid well this offseason. We thought that about who do we else?

We think of t Will? He Will had a money We're thinking t Will was going to make eight million dollars so much for that. He Will had opportunities to get bigger deals and it just didn't work out. I mean though, you think, yes, oh whoa, whoa, you were reliably reporting this? Are you What are you doing? I hear you're speculating. I hear stuff, you hear stuff as Yeah, there you go, Amber, nice follow up. I let me alone. Like he said it himself when he signed here, he

took less money to come back. He pended his loyalty. That's what he said. Who would you sacrifice on? Who would you sacrifice on? This same ja has that same loyalty? Oh hey, I'm just no, No, that's the number one. We're gonna have to find out. You're trying to get desk to take a pay cut. Amber, something's gonna happen, and assume I don't know the way she's bringing the

sauce today, the way it stands right now. I just I just don't know that you have the money on the books to get a deal done with a guy like him. But you guys are telling me I have to go draft a guy, but I already got a guy no can play. It's cheaper to draft a guy, Okay, but is he a better player? Same thing that they just did in the secondary. She just said that we got a lot of needs. What course, they'd all teams in the NFL have needs. It's lying back for your

number one need. Honestly, I think i'd probably agree with Amber. I think it's probably safety number one overall, just in terms of like because whoa, whoa, wait wait, you drafted Byron Jones. You're gonna move Byron Jones. Byron Jones is entering a contract year. Okay, that's what I'm saying. You don't think he Are you keeping Byron Jones? Well, I'm keeping Byron Jones. But the problem is are you picking up his option? I'm not? All right? There we go,

That's what I'm saying. So you need to address the future of the position, do you not? Yeah? You probably want to upgrade your starters, do you not? Yeah? All right, I'm with you on that. Okay, but you're but you're telling me though that I know I got a starting linebacker that I know is reliable, that could play two spots, right, But you guys just want to kick him to the curb.

I don't want to kick him to the curb. I want to do Oh I know, Oh, I know that, but I'm trying to She brought up a couple receiver or receiver. I brought up a corner. Is there anybody else that you would say, uh, maybe move on, move on. We don't need we need that. We can use that money elsewhere. Nobody that immediately jumps out to me to be honest with you, Am I forgetting somebody? I'm just enlighten me. No, you're gonna have to give that right that left defensive end? A lot of money? Is that?

Is that A? Is that A? Is that A? Gotta pay Lawrence? You gotta pay Irving? David Urry? Okay, you gotta pay back. Can you afford can you ford to give David Irving a high tender? Okay? Would you rather have David Irving or or Anthy Hitches. I'd rather have Irving again because it's cheaper. He's a restricted free agent. You don't have to compete with the market to keep him. Are we keeping the Marcus? Yes, but you don't have to tender. You don't have to tender that guy. You don't.

But so if you give David Irving a first round tender, you're paying him something like five million dollars, And it's, well, well, what are you gonna pay Anthony Hitchens? You think you have to pay him five million dollars? Anthony Hitchins, You're gonna have to I would Garrett. Okay, even let's say even if he gets a t will deal, let's say he gets way less than what I think, and you're cheerleading for that. That's still but that's still four million

dollars a year, right, it's ten million and guarantees. Yeah, that's so. I mean, like you're talking about significant But tell me I'm not losing games with him? Are you doing this to me right now? Like you know the way this works? You want stuff? Or do you have any other questions from give him a break? Seriously, it's his birthday, my birthday. He wanted to host a show today. All right, well, here's a about Damien Wilson. Yeah, why has been the impression of him? And do you guys

see the team improving the Sam? Oh? There you go, here you go. Two thoughts. One is that Sam linebacker doesn't even like have a huge role on this team the way it is, right. I mean, on Sunday, I thought it was funny they announced their starting lineup in nickel. They didn't even bother Sam lineback. You're gonna see a lot of nickel this week too. On the other side, based on the training camp he had, you thought he'd

be better, didn't you. There's a lot of guys I thought that, Dave yep, Well that's why you're seven and six right now. Yeah, but I thought I thought he'd be better. I thought he'd have a bigger role like he was everywhere in training camp, even in the previos. Are we finding out that the linebacker position at a hole needs to be redone? I think Sean Sean masks a lot of problems and hitchens too, which you also said his age. Yeah, no, I mean it's a concern for sure, it is, yes, But I mean for two

years Sean stayed healthy after the move to Will. Yeah, you can't say that anymore. He's missed half the year. Well wall oh this year. Last year he missed a game just because a healthy scratch. I remember two years ago, when people would complain about Sean Lee's injuries, you would say, that's bs. He's been healthy since he moved to Will. But the Will, but the Will move has actually been beneficial force it has. Yeah, but my point being is that the injury issues have cropped up again. This is

another season. So if he's played eight seasons, four of them have been significantly marred by Edger cap Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so that's something you got to think about. And Anthony Hitchins, it's possible he stays here, I suppose, but I wouldn't bet on it. So yeah, I mean, linebacker is a big concern for me. Okay, So now what we sound like, what I'm gathering from everybody here is we're gonna do with the linebackers what we did with the secondary last year. I wouldn't bet against the draft.

Just draft two or three guys. I think that's likely. Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean you're just gonna sit, You're gonna flip that position like he did the safety and the cornerbacks. But the difference is, I think you got Shaan Lee is your pet Shawn Lee to hold everything in place, hopefully knock on Wood and then then Jalen Smith and you can't I'm not you can't bet on Jalen Smith. But I'm not going to bet against the eater, you know what I mean? Like he deserves every chance to

continue to ride the fence. That it's not riding the fence. That's common sense. You're riding the fence. Oh, you're just trying to provoke me and it's working. Any other questions thoughts on Kiev on Fraser, how do you guys expect this team to start using him in the future. Actually, I had I had one talking point that I wanted to hit on, So this is a good segue just

the safeties in general. She wants new ones. Well, I mean, well, how do you feel I'll tell you what I feel like though that you you you need to figure out what Xavier Woods is. Yeah, and I worry about Xavier Woods as a tackler. Now, to be honest with you, I think we've seen him miss some tackles that he should have made, you know. And I love the coverability. I love that aspect to him, but I need him to be a better tackler. If I'm going to play

him full time, I need him to tackle better. And so Jeff, I thought Jeff Heath played out of his mind the other day. I think that was one of his best tours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ten tackles and just not because of the numbers, but he being a good position and coverage things got eas down everything that you've seen from him this season. Oh, one game, This is where I'm gonna get your point there, Garcia. The thing with Cavon Frasier, we saw really the one good game

you know where. And I'm still trying to figure out who busted on that thirty five yard pass that Evan Ingram route, because I'm kind of thinking, well, maybe Sean Lee busted. Well I guess who else was involved Cavon Frasier. So you get people to kind of say a little two things there, But you know, one game with Cavon Frasier playing against the Redskins being good. Now, how about some two or three games in a row. Don't miss tackles,

don't over extend, be where you need to be. You know, I'm all for playing him, but I'm also all for figuring out though that, Hey, how about a little bit

more consistent guy. I think that's probably that's a problem that I would bet every NFL team except for like Seattle, when their guys are healthy, like Eric Berry, like maybe five teams in the league feel great about their safeties because I look at the Cowboys and I'm like, you've got two guys who hit well and are around the ball, and you've got two guys who cover better and have problems, you know, tackling Jones, Byron and Nixavier better in coverage,

miss tackles, take bad angles from time to time. Cavon, Cavon and Heath hit like a ton of bricks and are around the ball. Don't the best tackler of the four? Probably Heath? Yeah, if he can get there, Yeah yeah, yeah, he's your best best tackler. Who's your best cover man? Byron? Depending on the situation. I still like Byron down low or Byron to carry guys up the field Byron down low, Byron cut taking tight ends and stuff like that. I like that better, which you've got four guys who can

do part of the job. Well, you don't have anybody that can do at all, which you know, if you want that guy, you probably got to draft him in the top twenty. Bigger concern them with the linebackers, I mean, she said, and I don't know if she wants to change that. She said, you have to draft linebackers. Now I don't and I don't disagree with you. But have

you brought the safety out there? I think I've seen more concerning things from the safeties year from one watching the game, the safeties are the ones that upset me the most. Customers in Spanish takes it not at all. I think the starters bother me more at safety, Like you've got good linebacker starters even if Hitchins leaves, Jalen Smith can be a good player. Or disappointed in what you've seen with Smith at linebacker or what you had with here we go again, No, no, no Smith, or

what you've seen from Byron Jones or Woods. Oh, I mean Byron Jones. He had this amazing training Yeah, training camp, that's all we talked about. We were doing periscopes. We win. We went into the season. I feel I thought we did a good job of tempering our expectations on Jalen. I mean he had a good training camp two, but yeah, I would throw Byron in there, but him and him and Malik Collins where two guys had fooled me. We

talked about Malik has been hurt this year. I don't want to dog him for that, but I mean, you're right, and I thought he would have nine sacks this year. But oh, you guys do a fast show. Yeah, anyway, that was a fast hour. Thank you for joining us on this episode, Brian, thank you so much. Thank you guys, great good discussions. I hope everybody enjoyed that. Derek and Nick will be back tomorrow. Until then, we are on a twenty three and a half hour break to quote

around the horn, but see all tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.