Cowboys Break: Best Player vs. Need?

Derek over here? This is season eighteen, yeah, le eighteen wow, eighteen seasons? What what's all that? We're legal for adults. Okay, that's that's a different kind of legal. It just doesn't see. I'm just gonna punt on that. I just don't want to talk about it. You're legal to go to the military. You can join the army at eighteen. You can vote for the country. Alright, alright, Episode four five five? Okay

you were nicky? Okay, whoa wow? Alight on it? There you go like one of those flights where the turbulence starts the minute it up. I'll have some more turbulence for you though. Okay, Um, we do have the draft coming up around the corner. Sure do we have things to talk about. But before we get into that, I figure we'll get the news out of the way. I mean, some pretty serious, big news. But do you have to talk about it? All? Right? Well, it's fun like when

you're in the weekly format. You know, it's so much has been said already about that situation. You forget we haven't had a show since then. We have not, so we do kind of figure we do have to kind of discuss it a little bit. Unfortunately, we do pretty serious,

major stuff. But I'm sure by now a lot of the listeners have already heard the news and the things that's going on currently with Kelvin Joseph, which we did discuss last week, as you know, a quick evaluation of how he was drafted and how he was looking at all that. But he's currently going under some pretty serious investigation as of right now. We don't have a lot

of the details. We've heard some things around the media and things like that, but I mean it's involving homicide that happened in the FW so he's currently being investigated by the police. But I guess I'm gonna just leave it open to you guys on what's going on with him and what this means for the team and if the Cowboys are expected to make any kind of move right now. I know maybe you're waiting on what happens legally, but I think that's the thing you is, just what

happens legally. That's what Stephen Jones. He talked a lot less about it, honestly than you just did. I mean, and I say that because he's not trying to talk about it a lot right now, and and and they are not saying hide behind the legal part of because that's that's that's what it is. You just don't have you open yourself up for more issues when you when you try to talk, you know about something that don't

really know. We know this, it's being investigated. We also know that he was he's continuing to do the things for the team that he's supposed to do. He's part of the offseason workouts. He was here, Um, I don't know if he's been here every day. They don't take attendance like that. They'll share the attendance voluntary for us, it's voluntary. It means he means you show up if you're if you're in the in the news for the wrong reasons, you better show up. That's usually what it means,

I would think. But um, you know, well, we'll see, We'll see what happens and whether it changes any kind of offseason draft strategy. Let me say real quick though, we do have to now I want to acknowledge. Sure it was a person that died here. And I know sometimes you can get caught up in the conversation talking about football, but this man, camera ray Is is no longer living because of what happened that night. And regardless of what Kelvin Joseph's involvement is in that or not,

a man is still dead. And so we want to you know, obviously his fist family, you know, you have thoughts for them and and you know, want to make sure they're okay. But at the end of the day, football takes a backseat to this because there's a man that's dead, you know. So yeah, that's I mean, that's a that's a weird situation, even as far as that stuff goes, because like the information that we have, I mean, the information that his lawyer was willing to share, it

is like he was there that night. We know that he was there didn't come to light for a month, and then he talks to the Dallas police. Don't want to for too much from that, but two arrests were made within two days of that conversation happening. Have a feeling that's not a coincidence. Hasn't been charged with the crime, and he maintains that he was in any way the shooter. He is not shoot anyone. That's what he maintains, or his attorney has maintained. There has been no charges, there

have been there's been no arrest. I completely understand the point of view of anybody that's like, oh, it still sounds pretty gross all things, if you just take the totality of it again, this comes to light a month later. I understand if you still have some misgivings about what's going on there. But to the point Nick just kind of made is the Cowboys are going to wait and see how this plays out. Are there going to be legal actions toward Kelvin? Is there going to be NFL

disciplinary action? We have no idea about that either. And it's ironic, and yeah, you're so right. I mean, it feels gross to even talk about stuff like the draft when somebody was killed, But the fact that it happens a week before the draft just throws all of that into further light where it's like, well, do we need to be thinking about this when we're in the war room trying to figure out what we need to do with our picks on Thursday and Friday? Um, well, that

was gonna be my next question. Two part question really, one is, regardless of the legal outcome of the situation, the fact that his name is tied to something as severe as this, do you expect or think that the Cowboys will make some kind of move there or And the second part or sorry is like Dave said, and you mentioned also Nick, how does that affect the draft and what you start looking at as far as the

position itself. Yeah, if you would have asked me a week ago that that very question about Kelvin Joseph, my answer would not change. I don't think he's done anything on the field to let you say that, oh, we don't have to draft a corner because we got him. When you look at the position, just a little bit more uncertainty for the future comes out. You know, what what happens with Anthony Brown next year? His contract is up.

I believe Jordan Lewis still has another year, but it's a year they could get out of if they wanted to. And then, of course Kelvin Joseph's you know, he hasn't proven anything yet on the field, so you know, I think there's a good corner you wanted to take. You would take him regardless of this situation either way, because you know you always did need good corners, especially in the future. It looks a little uncertain. Yeah, and I'll say this too. I mean it, and I'm just speaking

for myself. This is not the organization's take. I don't know what their take is on this, but me personally, reading the things that I read about Kelvin Joseph coming in the door when the Cowboys drafted him, I was already a bit skeptical of like the who he was off the field and remind the people aside from the rap, No, it wasn't even that, like I have no problem with guys having a life outside of football. That doesn't bother me at all. It was the fact that he was

at LSU and then he wasn't the issue. He was at Kentucky and they were like, yeah, we're good. You kind of just go on and do your thing, right. It just the fact that there was there seemed to be this cloud of just like and this guy I don't know, you know. And so I'm not saying, like, again, I don't have a problem with a guy that has a rap career on a problem with a guy who has other interests outside of football. I just thought that when he was first drafted, I had a little bit

of skepticism. And Nick's even talked about on this show, like, and you've made reference to it. I don't know how many fans picked up on it, but Nick, you've used it the term. I'm more concerned about, like, what does he do in these months? Like that's gonna tell me a lot about Kelvin. Joseph was talking about the offseason. I know what you're getting at. It's like, when you're away from football, are you doing the things that you need to be doing to be ready to play and

available to play when football comes back around. And so I think there's a level of skepticism in my mind. I don't know how the organization feels about that. I wonder if this advances that or not, how they view it and how they viewed him coming in the door where they also like, hey, you know how they do a second round picks Scott has a lot of talent, will take a little bit of a chance on him, and and and we'll just kind of see where we go.

I really don't know if the organization or how they feel about felt about him coming in and how that much, how much that has changed after this incident. That's the disappointing thing. And I ironically I said this last week about a cornerback, Jordan Lewis. We were talking about, you know, he came in with with the domestic violence issues, and

and that seems so crazy. And at the same time, we don't know these guys right, at least not as well, not well enough to just make these concrete statements about who they are as people. M kelvin was a unique circumstance because of my ties to LSU, Like, I had many conversations with people who know him a hell of a lot better than I did, and the word back that I always got was like he is a good kid. His sense of priorities and his pension for getting wrapped

up in the wrong things. Yes, they speak for himself, They themselves like he went m I A from LSU's program in the spring of like eighteen or I think twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. He just like disappeared and just stuff like that. And again, I don't want to speak out of turn about what happened at this nightclub, but the details that we have make it sound like he got caught up in the wrong crowd and the wrong situation. And again, what we keep hearing is like,

he did not fire a gun. He did not do that. But you were there, your decisions led you to this point. You allowed yourself to get caught up in that, and it speaks to that idea of like maybe you are not a bad person, but your critical thinking and your your judgment and all of that stuff can be very fairly called into question. And uh, that's not what's Yeah,

that's actually that's the thing. Like you, Kyle was saying, we're looking at you know, we're further investigation, and you can, we can keep investigating this all you want to, but facts remain. This is that it's not what you did, it's what you did not do. That's that's that's not debatable. You were there and you didn't call You didn't you didn't let anybody know for for almost a month. That is a problem your decision making is that that's an issue that's always going to be there. So you know,

let me say one more thing too. There are people I'm sure fans are like that. I just get rid of them. There are people I think in this building that think that way as well, but who knows where you know the real decision makers what they think. And I'll say this, just because it hasn't happened right now doesn't mean it will not. I think it's important for the cowboys to figure out that the entire story, see

where things are going from there. But I don't think it's well, if he hasn't been released, he won't be I don't think that's true, but I don't. My gut tells me that probably won't happen. Yeah, that's just what I think. I think he will, but I lean toward that too. But yeah, that's it just feels like a weird limbo where we really probably haven't seen the end of this story and it could go either way, which

I don't know. I'm not going to get up on the table and proclaim what they should or shouldn't do, but like I said at the top, like I don't blame anybody that is sitting at home, like, yeah, even if I don't have all the facts, Like it sounds like this guy sat on this for a month and that feels gross to me. I don't blame you if

you feel that way at all. I just hope that he learns a lesson that my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, which is, you are always going to be judged by the people you hang around, So be thoughtful about who you hang around, because even if you don't do anything, let's say assume he did nothing wrong, let's say in this situation, the fact is he's still not wrapped up in it because of the

character of the people that were with him. So hopefully he learns that lesson, and this is a good life lesson frame regardless of what happens with the case, regardless of what happens with the cowboys. Hopefully it's a good

life lesson for him to know. You know, I might need to choose better people run with, you know, if I'm going to be out and about, I need to choose people that I think represent the same kind of values that I represent, and That's a tough thing because it's not only what you do with your personal friends and who you hang out outside of work, but you're he's surrounded by people here, and people here are going to be surrounded by him. So it's also that does

impact your locker room, your group, your defensive backs. So you want to ensure that you have those tight groups, but make it the right kind of tight group. You know, the right people around yourself where you're gonna take an early break. When we come back, I want to start getting into the draft and some of the positions of meats for the Dallas Cowboys. At AT and T, everyone new and existing customers get our best deals on every smartphone.

Why because you deserve it for turning your living room into your office and your gym. We're teaching Grandma had a video call and teaching her again. It's the button on your left Nanna, Okay, your other laughs. It's not complicated. Everyone deserves something new, So ATNC is given everyone new and existing customers are best deals with every unlimited plan on every smartphone, even the latest ones. A teen T may temporarily slidated speech at the network. Specific restrictions and

exceptions may apply. Want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand or the Dallas Cowboys Jack Black. Right now you can get the Jack Black Starter, a curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites, for just ten bucks with free shipping. The starter includes four Jack Black skincare favorites plus a full sized and tense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the code word team JB. That's get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys The Jack

Black Starter ten bucks free shipping. The Cowboys Way, where sixteen Hall of Famers and five championships shows us what success looks like. Where turkey is always the second best part of Thanksgiving Day, Where we are all defined by one single thing, the Star, where we as fans know it's our job to keep the tradition going. Bank of America is proud to be the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys and to support the quest of living life.

The Cowboys Way Copyright twenty twenty, Bank of America Corporation. Before there was a draft. You get size up a cowboy by three simple factors. The crease at his hat, the bend of his brim and his unbending at it. To a man, Stetson didn't just protect him from what life through at him. It projected a rugged, unstoppable spirit.

Stetson hats are still American, made with pride. Right here in Texas, there's still the unofficial crowd of all self respecting cowboys, and Stetson is proud to be on the field with America's team. Find a retailer nearest you at Stetson dot com slash Cowboys Back to the Break. If you want to see better, go to Essler. You can book an appointment at your local Essler Experts and find that perfect lens for you. Seymour Do Moore Esler, Welcome

back to the Break. I do not want us to sound like a broken record on this show, but how to say it. I'm still kind of amazed, surprised and with my eyes open and scratching my head at the fact that you haven't brought some free agency help into the building to kind of add some depth, some experience, specifically talking about the O line and more specifically keep

talking the guard position of the Dallas Cowboys. We know that you want to go into the draft with some kind of depth in there, so that you're not necessarily forced to grab a position because you really really need it. So I want to open up the questions to you guys.

And Stephen Jones was talking about to the media and one of the things that he mentioned when he was asked about a guard he referenced um Sach Martin and like, yeah, we love to have a guy like Sak Martin, Zach Martin on the team, which is great anytime you can find Hall of famers, great business. So but it's not that easy. So I just want to talk about and ask you guys, like, what the heck, what the heck

right now? What the heck with the guard position? This is not a real surprise when you think about it, Like what the guard market is is not what the cowboys like, Like they want Zach Martin, cool, good approach. But the guy that they pushed with two hands out the door got a seven million a year contract. So anybody else that's been pushed out the door by their respective teams is probably wanting something like that and they're like, no, we that's not what we want to pay. They want

a bargain shop. But Connor Williams is making seven million a year, so it doesn't make it. I mean, this is not surprising that they don't like what's out there because they want it cheaper, and those guys are like, well, I'm better than him. I find it very surprising. I disagree because I am surprised too, But like, who do you think they should sign? They immuly don't want the guys that are out there because they've never stopped They've never let the fact that a guy's not good stop

them from signing somebody in free agency. Like that's what they do. They scrape the bottom of the barrel and say, well, at least this guy has played tie and Secki was not in high demand last year. Neither was I can never remember the dude's name, the swing tackle Cam or tie cam irving thank you m Yeah, Like they they've never failed to find a nine hundred thousand dollars vet that they can come. They're like, hey, he's not actually good,

but at least he's played in the NFL. Who are they actually saying that too when they go hards But like, let's say that they get that guy, whoever he is, they signed him, they signed him last week, and then they draft the corner of the guard in the first round, Like, then, what do you do with that guy? Got him swing

swing guard center or or you cut him? Yeah, you decide whether you want him or go to we go to camp with Kenyan Green, this old guy, uh Connor McGovern and Matt Farniac and we cut whoever sucks them. But she just signed that guy after the drift. Now, and that's I agree with you. I want to be like, I agree with what you're saying. I just find it shocking because it is a noticeable departure from what they usually do. And that's I spent two weeks saying and like, well,

you know they're not done because they haven't. They haven't added the guy who sucks. That's what they do. They go get the guy that sucks, and then they sell us on him for a few weeks and then they draft the new guy. That's what they do for nothing else than just making sure other teams can't say, well they gotta get somebody sad you jump over him in

the draft. Like that's the part that's surprising to me is they're not setting themselves up to not get jumped by someone, which just makes me think that I'm just think maybe they want to be jumped, maybe Jared. All the guards are gone, receiver, Sorry, Ted, but they took its strategy. It's just it is. It's it's a departure from what they usually do. And you're right, like the price was high, but there were guys like I would have I would have bet my life. No, I wouldn't

have bet my life. I say that too often. I'm not betting my life over what the Cowboys doing free agent. But like wi Will Hernandez he signed with Arizona. Jermina Fetti was another guy they kind of fit the mold of like that guy who was kind of disappointing but you could probably sign for less. And when that didn't happen, I was like, Okay, I guess they're content to go into the draft, and I think Nick's right. If they don't get what they need, then I think they'll sign

that guy. But what concerns me about that is is it gonna match up with what they want or what they need like they are or are they going to draft some guy and then go sit up there and pat themselves on the back for what a good job they did, when really they reached because they knew they needed a guard, right and they're just hoping that we never find out about it, and he's gotta play, and

he's got to play. Yeah, Like that's exactly right. The two names to know are Zion Johnson out of Boston College and Kenyan Green out of Texas A and M. Those are the guards. Zion can play a little bit of center for what that's worth, But those are the guys that you would be drafting to fill that spot. And that's fine. I've heard there even questions about them.

Is that are Yeah, when you're picking twenty four, I know, but but sometimes you can get a guard a little later because of how their value and there may be a little less in the way of questions. But I heard there's some pretty interesting questions about both of them. Green didn't test great his film. I mean, he's had a fantastic college career. He's played four or the five positions on the line. Zion, I think people wonder about

his strength, but he tested very well. But to your point, I think it's a lock that at least one of those guys has a second round grade, if not both. Yeah, and that's normal, Like that's normal when you're picking twenty fourth. But the question comes in when somebody else will just use a receiver because that's the other position, like if Jamison Williams or Chris olav or Garrett Wilson or even

Traylan Burkes. Like if if they have a better grade on that guy and they draft the guard with the lesser grade because they need him, that's bad drafting exactly, And that's what would upset me, which is also why they don't, like they're not going to let their graft grades be known because then they can tell us that Zion was the best guy on their board when it

really wasn't true. Well, Jerry Jones a few weeks ago he did mention the fact that he is very open to trading, whether that's up or down, So that is

still a possibility. And now speaking about I know you mentioned two names, but about the talent itself, like if you were to drive to trade up, are you specifically going to a guard and draft a guard or is the talent okay if you wait until like let's say a second round guy, because you have at this point we keep talking about it, you have to get some help at card. Yeah, along that line, let me go back to the to the last part because I actually disagree.

Now that I really think about it, I don't think it is bad drafting at this point. I don't think draft. I think if there's a receiver that's rated a little higher than the guard, I'm okay taking the guard about a lot higher. Well, I mean, I don't know what I mean by that, And I know what you're saying, like a little bit if they're fairly comfortable, I agree with you. But what happens when where is that markup? If you've got a guy that yeah, okay, and that's

that's fine. I mean, like a receiver you think is going to be in the top ten and he falls down, you know, or to twenty four. But but to me, like, okay, you draft this guy, like if he's going to be better than Ceedee Lamb, then that makes sense. But if he's not going to be better than then like Michael Gaillipiece is probably your third receiver? Like is that good

drafting to to get a receiver that's higher rated. Let's say it's a Trailing Burke's type of guy who's gonna probably be your third receiver, then what are you doing that guard? Are you still going with with McGovern? I mean I would rather have the guard that comes in plays right away, even if he's not as good as my third receiver, because how does that guy help me? Okay, so let's let's flip that a little bit then, because I understand what you're saying, but what if the talent

there says he might not this year. Right now, he might be your third receiver, but in a year or two he might be your best receiver. Or let's even flip it to another position, because I think receivers a little bit of different beast. Right now, Let's let's assume it's it's stingy by all accounts, he is a cornerback that will not be there for you. Let's assume he

drops to you somebody with that kind of potential. Would you be willing to do that knowing that, hey man, this might not pay off for us in the immediate but it certainly can have big impact for us down the road. But we need a guard right now, which to a degree I agree with Nick and that to steal Brian brought us is like terminology, like if the tags are touching, if you're basically talking about the same

players that play different positions, take the guard. Take the guard it's the issue where a guy that is clearly a lot better than the guard falls to you. Which, if if whatever we're hearing about this draft class is accurate, that's at least got a decent chance of happening. They could be setting themselves up to do something really dumb, in my opinion. Yeah, And that's that's the thing. It goes.

It goes back to kind of what you just asked, Like, like usually you want to say best available player, but they haven't. They haven't afforded themselves that luxury this year. To do that, they have to go best available need. And and that's that's where that's what I think that they are right now. But I've said this all along too, is that like I think Dak is better, Zeke is better,

these guys. Offense is better if your offensive line is way better, and the best way to do it is to draft, you know, and a plug and play guy. And that's it's just gonna be hard to think any of these other players, the Stingy, the Jordan Davis, any of these receivers. That sounds great, but I'm like, man, they've gotta get offensive line help. They've got to get a guy that can start do either one of those guards.

Just that's why I don't get what they did. And I don't get the lack of action and free agency to prevent that from being true because it is true. But why is it true? Why did they not do? Like? Why are they content to be? Like? Man, I really hope Kenyan Green's there at twenty four because that's kind of what it feels like the strategy is. And are both those guys plug and play? Yeah? They play? Can

better be? No? Well I'm asking, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's nice to say they better be, but you know, yeah, both of them are plug and play. Yes they're gonna be. Yeah, all right, But I also just know this. Zach Martin was picked fourteenth and guard Quentin Nelson I think was sixth fifth maybe, like if you have a stud guard, yeah, they can get picked up this So when you say there's some there's something wrong with their game, well yeah, that's why. Yeah, of course there is something. Oh sorry,

go ahead, we're gonna take a break. But I I laughed when you said that earlier, which you know you

could have a Zach Martin in this draft. So I say this kind of tongue in cheek, But like, if they trade up for a guard, the draft knicks, the people like me who like really freak out about this stuff will burn Twitter down if you if they trade up for a guard to make sure they get their guard, Like if you're trading up in a first round of a draft, doesn't matter though, how much like you if they trade up two spots, you're gonna be like, what why did they give up? I mean, what did I mean?

What did they get in the Mica trade last year? What did Philly give them to go up two spots in the first round? A third? Yeah, yeah, you give a pick eighty eight to go get a guard. You wouldn't do that twelve to ten and twenty fourth. I'm just probably fourth. I'd be aggravated by one of those. One of those picks are supposed to do something. One of those About fifth round, fifth round picks, we got a lot of them. We're gonna talk about about one.

We're gonna talk about fifth round picks later in the show. Um, but uh, speaking of trade and we're gonna go to break. I was just thought, whatever trade it is, it better be better than what you got through Amari Cooper. A better deal and it's a different deal, you know, different kind of trade, but you better get some some something better out of whatever trade you made. If a Mark Cooper can land your fifth round pick, then I would trade one of those fifth round picks to see if

I can get something like that and its contract. Yeah, all right, Well let's take a break. When we come back. Nick mentioned best available need, so I wanted to kna dive a little bit deeper into that and see what are some of the other higher needs that the Cowboys have for this draft. Hi, I'm Clint Tillison with and I'm Jay Nobachek, and we're both with Turf, the official

tractor provider of the Dallas Cowboys. So if you need a tractor to bail some hay, a'm more to cut some grass, or a gator to get some chores done, get a John Deer at Unitedag and Turf and then let's get to work. Hey Jay, that's my line, Well not today, get to work with a John Deere tractor

package that's just right for you and your budget. Visit unantaginturf dot com The Cowboys Way, where sixteen Hall of Famers and five championships shows us what success looks like where Turkey is always the second best part of Thanksgiving Day, where we are all defined by one single thing, the star, where we as fans know it's our job to keep the tradition going. Bank of America is proud to be the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys and to support

the quest of living life the Cowboys Way. Copyright twenty twenty Bank of America Corporation. At ATNC, everyone new and existing customers get our best deals on every smartphone. Why because you deserve it for turning your living room into your office and your gym, for teaching Grandma had a video call and teaching her again. It's the button on your left Nana, Okay, your other laughs. It's not complicated.

Everyone deserves something new, So ATNC is given everyone new and existing customers are best deals with every unlimited plan on every smartphone, even the latest ones. At T may temporaries, low date speach at the network is basic. Restrictions and exceptions may apply. New Doctor Peppers zero sugar. You deserve it. I do deserve that. You deserve decadent flavor without sugar, and a day at the beach without sand, getting everywhere and a relaxing bath that your children don't interrupt. I

deserve all that. It's really just a visual metaphor for doctor Pepper zero sugar. Everything you it's nothing you don't a visual metaphor on the radio. I do deserve that, Doctor Pepper zero sugar. The zero you deserve is finally here. Back to the break Head to the Star in Frisco for the twenty twenty two Cowboys Draft presented by Miller Lights Thursday April twenty eight through Saturday, April thirtieth, enjoyed live draft coverage, entertainment, free youth camp on Friday night.

In the draft Day five K presented by Bayers, Scott and White on Saturday morning. For more details, visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash draft. Can we can? We? First of all, give Dave a little bit of a handclap. He just completed a ten K last week. If you had seen me at the finish line, finish it, I appreciate there are a lot of people that cannot do that. So congratulation thing to get sold. Are you guys running the five K? Anybody? I would love to? They just

it's I gotta be here to do. Day three coverage like it doesn't work out. Thought, it's kind of hard to do it unless you're gonna The only thing I thought is maybe you could go in night shower and change in the I'd have to shower and change at the gym, and also i'd have to get up super early after covering day two until one am. Yeah, it just seems like something to say on the air. I did. Yeah, it just seems like, oh, I've been up since this morning to five GA. I was gonna say, when did

Brian get here? I was thinking, I think Kyle does want to run the five game. I'm good for him. Runs a little bit loo congratulations day Yeah, good jobs. Thanks all right. So before the break, um Nick mentioned that the Cowboys might be forcing themselves to see like best available need, and then Dave mentioned the Brian's line that you know, if they're touching tags or whatever, and

they're right there close to each other. So my question is are there any other positions that might be kind of touching tags with the guard position as far as needs, well, I you know, I'll let talk about it too, but I think receiver the reason why it's up there, it's there is a need there. Um you know, because you don't know what Gallup's going to do this year, and James Washington is still you know, he's he's a lower round free agent guy. That's supposed to be a band

aid situation. So I think receiver because it's a need. I do think that that's would make more sense to you know, to be in the conversation, But I don't think it's that much of a need. I think it's I think it's one of the two or three biggest needs on the team, and I think I think the conversation comes down to that at twenty four just because of what might be there, and we have to acknowledge that you never know. We certainly weren't talking about Ceedee

Lamb in twenty twenty. We were talking about Mica a little bit last year, but from the most part, everybody was fixated on cornerback. So like, you don't know for sure, but when you just look at it, I think they need they need an interior offensive lineman more than anything. I think receivers. Right after that, then I would probably go edge rusher, where you could flop those two if you want to whatever. Those are the top three in my opinion, And then after that probably offensive tackle and

tight end. So when you look at those, there's gonna be a guard there for you, there's gonna be a receiver there for you. Offensive tackle would be pretty surprising just because of the value of that position. There isn't a tight end with a first round grade. And what else? Did I say? Edge rusher? Possible? But again that feels surprising picking twenty fourth that one of those guys falls to you. So the natural conclusion is receiver. And why

can't I talk receiver and guard? Sorry? Yeah? Yeah, And so I think when you're answering that question, you're talking about it twenty four. Yeah, just yeah for the first round because not necessarily like those five positions should be your first five picks. You know, I don't think you're saying that because you can't predict that right, right, because because you could say, though, these would be needs to

take in the first round. But I think if you're talking about out the first three rounds, I'm thinking linebacker has got to get in that mix because the more stability I've got a linebacker, then I can play Parsons where I want to play him. And I mean, Layton's a one year deal, and you know, after you know, who knows what else that happens at linebacker, and so I just need a little bit more stability, more playmakers there.

So I kind of put that in that group. Not in the first round, I don't think, but but in the top you know, first two days. Yeah, maybe I ironically put edge slash a linebacker because because of what you said, like it allows me some flexibility with with Micah. If I get a linebacker, if I get it, I think an edge is important. But I also think if you get a linebacker, then that does offset that a little bit because you can't slide Mica down to play edge a little bit more if you got a linebacker

you think can play. So I think I think I put those together. But I think I would actually say that swing tackle to me is the third It's behind guard and wide receiver. We've already taught. It's fun. You're gonna play some games this year, sure you're gonna neet that guy. And that guy is not currently on the team, So I think I think, oh, I don't think he's currently on the team, So I think they need to

address that. I think the reason I fall off on tackle a little bit is just because I know that there are guys out there in free agency that like there you know, there's always a slide. There's always like a thirty three year old tackle who's just kind of chilling. I mean, I'm not saying they want to go resigned Tiansecky, but they probably could Jason probably talk Jason Peters out of retirement or whatever the hell he's got going on.

So like, I just think you can play forever. You can address that cost effectively after the draft if it doesn't work out. It's not to say I don't think they should draft one. Can you get a linebacker that just plays a linebacker, No one thinks he's a pass rusher, and then he gets a week two of the season and find out that he's a really good pass rusher. Can you get that guy? Yeah? I think that would be fun. Sure, right right after you get that, right

after you get Zach Martin. Yeah, you can get that guy. Yeah, Yeah, I mean that that's just amazing when you when you really think about what happened with Parsons, like if I mean the COVID year, there's not a lot of great things that happened that they came out of covid. YEA, but that right there, just and I'm again I'm I'm just being tongue in cheek here. I understand that it was it was a huge deal for our whole world and country and all that, and a lot of people

lost their lives. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it feels even gross to put in the same sentence. But like the fact that that he didn't play, you know, he opted out for whatever the reasons opted out that allowed him to be you know, to fall to twelve. And I don't I think if you would have played that year, they would have realized this cauy Can rushed to the passer and he would have been drafted third.

His coaches at Penn State have said they were going to put more on his plate if he had played, And that's if you go back, I'll I'll readily own it like I wanted one of the cornerbacks. And there was a lot of concerned about the deal. Let's be honest. There were some people out there that will, let's be honest, the Cowboys pressure, no, no, not. But for the fact that they both got taken. I think Mickey and I hand on this one there were plenty of like, no,

that it's on this show. We pulled it. We pulled the clip the other day. You can go back and find it. There are people out there, but my like, but I don't feel bad about it, because the whole thing was positional value. Is like, is this guy gonna do more than playoff ball linebacker? Turns out yeah, and he's really good at it. And if there had been tape of that, yeah, he would have been a top

five pick. And I remember saying the way, the way he rushes up the middle, I remember thinking, I remember saying this, like, it's not always going to be against Purdue and he gets Indiana, Like I get it. The guards are a lot better. Um, but but that that's that's what's scary about people like me that cover the

draft and I don't cover. It's very loosely there. I look at highlight tapes, Well, no one puts out you know, Nakobe Dean's plays that suck like that, No one puts that on Twitter, on YouTube, they put his highlight tapes and this highlight tapes look good. But they're watching film on guys good and bad. So what he can do is what he can't do. So it's it's real scary to go I love what this guy does a receiver

or like, okay, but he misses it. He runs bad routes sometimes and that's why he's not this or that. So you gotta be careful just on what you see

on highlights because it goes both ways. Going back to the linebacker thing, I would like them to draft one, but and maybe I'm maybe I'm listening too much to Stephen Jones, like maybe I should be more not take him at his word, but like we asked him about a linebacker in Florida and he was like, oh, you gotta remember j Ron's basically a linebacker, And I was like, yeah, that's a good point, and if you, but are they going to pull him down to that and have another

strong safety in in those situations like like you can't double count him like I think when they're in nickel typically he's still on the fields at safety, right, but he comes down into the box and deals with the tight end, so all for all intents and purposes, like he's not back in coverage. He's down doing but you're still gonna need to linebackers my point, and yeah, but so but when you factor in those three like Layton

vander Esht, Jabril Cox can play nickel linebackers. Basically what I'm saying, if you want to do if you want Mike to do something else, or Mica can obviously play nickel linebacker. Two. I just think if you include Curse and say that you've got those four, I feel okay about it. I'm not saying, like, sure, draft one, that would be great, but I have it lower on my list of name would be your guy Daman Clark. Why he had spinal fusion surgery and it's gonna miss his

rookie season. Yeah, well, I feel terrible for him. He'd be a top he would be Are there any linebackers in his draft? He would be like, if they got him at twenty four, you'd be like, I get it. I understand. Like somebody, somebody stopped me go walking into the to the office like a month ago, some some fan. He was just like, what do you think? And he said it so fast I don't even know what he was saying. And of course it wasn't you know, nine

in the morning. I don't know anything. He was just like, what do you think much time? Mum? And I'm like what he was like talking about Chad Muma from Wyoming. I love the idea of you being accosted about Trad Muma at nine o'clock in the morning. Well, what was funny? Can you guess? To look on? Nick's like, no, no, I'm talking to second. But here's here's what was really kind of funny about it. So he's he's like, he's a he's a big time fan, and he was up

in the Cowboys club and with his wife. His wife was like, no, don't harass this guy. And he was just like, no, listening to the show all the time. He's probably listening. He's like, second round pick, what do you think about him in the second round? And as he's saying that, I look over and I see Darren Woodson, who works on the other side of this building. He's got a real estate company and all that. He's killing it.

He's walking with like a client or whatever. And so I said, well loudly, you know, you know all the second round picks go. You never know about a second round pick and all that, And of course he was like, see there you go. That's why we're not friends, and all this stuff, which had reminded him there's a huge picture in my office about him. So but anyways, second round, pick d what but you have a picture of him in your office because he every time he sees Darren,

he measures it. I'm okay, just are you love with the guy like you always manybe? I mean, maybe you know it's great, but it's always like Darren, I have a picture of you on my dad. Well, he's a high office all the time, so you know, so when he does, I mean, I just have to remind him that, you know, I don't think I'm have pictures on his office wall. So the guy maybe cared too much about Darren paid. It was kind of what you're trying to do. You're trying to push him off on Darren, like, hey,

there's a go get the future Hall of Famer. Maybe let go like go hang out with him. Okay, cool? Chad mum though about him even recognized Derek. What do you think about this guy? He's a good player. I mean, I don't I don't take notes on all five hundred of these guys the way that Brian does. I know a lot of people think really highly of him. He played at Wyoming. I think Logan Wilson could have won Super Bowl MVP. So I think a lot of people have wyoming in the back of their mind. Uh, maybe

Josh too, well, I'm just thinking about it. Linebacker. But yeah, no, I mean like he's gonna be a top one hundred pick. Um, No, I was gonna say no to answer your question. Um, there's not a linebacker that they could pick at twenty four that would thrill me just because of the investment they've already made. It's the same argument you had last year about Michael right, Like, just for the value of the pick, you would be well and and and like

you have Micah and you just drafted Cox. It's like, geah, I mean, gotta what we're gonna do with all these guys. And on top of that, so they're I mean, Nakobe Dean's one of my favorite players in this draft. They ain't drafted him. He's fine. I think he's gonna be there. I think he's gonna he's five eleven. They don't draft five eleven guys. They like big long guys. They like

Layton vander esh and Michael Parsons, Devin Lloyd. I think a lot of people are gonna try to sell Devin Lloyd as this year's Parsons because he had eight sacks at Utah last year. He can do a little bit of that, but the freakish athleticism just isn't there. Like he's lighter than Micah and also slower and less explosive, like to me of Derek Johnson. Yeah, Devin Lloyd because he's got the football in his hand every time. Every time you look at guy, a football magnet. Yeah, definitely,

I don't mistake me. He's definitely a good player, but I don't not so good that I think it's worth drafting him twenty fourth overall agreement when you just drafted Mica. It's got to be a guard or just a playmaking receiver that you just can't. You just can't those only two. I mean, like you guys, would you would you consider cornerback if you if the right one failed you in first round? Like so, so that's why I'm trying to get and I think that's where Amber was going, Like,

what are the positions where you like this? This makes this would make sense if the right guy's there. Here are some names you wouldn't be punching a wall. Actually take that. But you also have to ask the question, why is he falling? Yeah, I have to ask absolutely absolutely. I mean that's that's fair. But I don't know that anybody was asking that question about CD. You just were like, he's here, get it right. We actually we've got We should have put Zion on the cover of our draft magazine.

That's my one regret. But I got a few. Well, these three, these three are all names that I think you should know in terms of like not a receiver, not a guard, but somebody they should consider. We all know Tyler Linderbaum best center in the draft. I want like, it's so weird to me that they didn't bring him in, Like I think that's so weird, Like it what does

that mean that? Like why don't you I don't know, why don't you want to do some due diligence that maybe the guy that maybe there, that's who they got circled, that's they want. They just don't want to put anybody on the set. I don't think they would draft pla. Yeah, I just gonna you know, we don't look cool, look good. We got a center. I don't think they would draft Trent McDuffie um, but I think he should be in consideration. He's five ten dudes, a baller, A story on him. Yeah,

he's our He's our story for today. I mainly I wanted him on the cover because I just think the purple kind of pops. But like he's a purple always pass freaking great football player. Like he's a shutdown corner. He can play slot and outside. I just wonder if he's got enough length. But maybe if he falls all the way at twenty four, maybe you consider it. And then there's George Karloft, this who is just a bad

the badass edge rusher from Purdue. He's not like he's not this physical freak, but he's like a very athletic, high motor guy. And if you need an edge rusher athletic and high motor. Yeah, I mean, but he's not like he's not like an athletic super freak, is what I'm trying to say. But like he's an athletic edge He shouldn't be there at twenty four, but maybe he won't be. Yeah, who knows what? Y'all, every every one of the draft people that I listen to all are

staying the same thing. It's gonna be a crapsh you get past the top, what five, six, seven picks, and it's really just your flavor. What do you want. The funny thing though, is like even still so much of the draft industry as group think because it's it's scary to kind of be out on your own with opinion, and so you still kind of find people falling into this group thought process where it's like, ah, he'll he'll

be gone, he'll be gone. He ain't fallen. It's like somebody's got to And then for all you know this some guy that we've universally got pegged as getting picked in the twenties could go in the teens. Then I'll never forget Cleveland Farrell defensive linean out of Clemson, was like we widely had him circled as like somewhere between twenty and forty fourth overall, Thanks Michael, How how has he done? Hasn't worked out? That's not the point that

I know. I'm just got the one that did, and he's I think a Hall of famer, And this it goes to show how long we've been doing this. But Dwight Freeney was not supposed to go in the top ten or whatever to the Colt and that was one that it was like who you know? And then not not who because he's probably a late first round put. Its probably also his size like that that was always the knock on him as his size, but he played

well beyond that. Between that always happens. I feel like in every draft, you you're watching the TV and you're looking and you're expecting the team to do something, and then all of a sudden they pick a guy that you're like, wait, what what? And then and we saw it happen a lot last year and was it last year mainly? Yeah? Right, that it was a lot that you're like, whoa what And that's clearly how cite Lamb and landed on your lab because and that's and that

we say this all the time. But like these guys that are that are doing this, I mean, I think Dane Brugler does an amazing job and draft. You know, he's got this beast of a of a of a book with all these players, but you know it's done universally. It's not he's not ranking the corners based off of length and size and what Dan Quinn would want. He's trying to put it all out there on everything involved.

When he might Dan Quinn might look at it and go, well, his number fourteen corners might number two corner because he'll come right in this guy. I mean like yeah, yeah, and that's and that's that's that's not a knock on any of these draft experts. They can only do it that way. That's why this stuff happens. There's a receiver out there that that will be a perfect slot guy for what the offense is trying to do for some team. That is probably the number twenty five receiver on the board,

but he might go in the second round. Yep. Well, let me change the conversation a little bit. We've talked a lot about the first two rounds and you know what they're gonna do on Day one and those top picks, but we haven't really got into those later rounds. And like they late, they two late in day three, you know. And we give the Cowboys Will McClay and his staff a lot of credit of the amazing job that they

usually do when it comes to drafting talent. But looking at this list of it here as far as the fifth round pick, I mean, yeah, well they got four fifth rounders. That's why we keep talking about everything is like, well, the kick her just fifth round. Und. I think the point she's about to make though, is that the track record we went nibble. So I'm gonna drop some names.

I'm gonna down go for most recent to later down the road, uh Semi, Philoco, Bradley and I, Michael Jackson, Joe Jackson, Mike Y, Ryan Russell, Devon Street, Joseph Randall, Danny Cole, Josh Thomas, DeAngelo Smith, and then a few more down the road. You got Orlando scan Drake, which was one that he did stay here for scand the last good fifth round pick? Yeah? Odd is he the only like I didn't hear any names in there that

just jumped at me. I mean, ironically. The funny thing is if you go and look at six and seventh round, is they've been better in the sixth and seventh round than they've been in the fifth round. That's been questioned. What do they do? Yeah, that's the thing everyone keeps kind of there's like this little, you know, growing excitement

about what I got four in the fifth round. I think the excitement is if you do something with them, if you trade it for something else, or you package it to get up better fourth or a third or something like that, because he's sitting there and taking four fifth rounders seems like a waste. Yeah, I'm serious, that's why. And like again, draft nicks can get into all these arguments about like the value. I would use the first pick of the fifth round on the kicker that John

Fossil likes the best. I would be excited if it was Kade York. I don't really care what they think. Draft a kicker who cares, Like the odds are that whoever you draftedn't gonna make the team anyway, or will excuse me, he'll make the team, he just won't do anything. Just get a good kicker time that you would ever like that the Cowboys would have used a draft pick on a kicker, that's a question on their list there.

But um but he wasn't even supposed to be like the kicker he even like, even if he sucks, like even if the kickers not that Like I mean the track record I think we talked about this, like the track record of of kicks being used on kickers is pretty damn good. Like both of the Pro bowlers this year were drafted. M Evan McPherson, who was a huge part of the Bengals run was a fifth round pick. Like, if a kicker is good enough to get drafted, he's

usually pretty good. Like there are always the exceptions, like a Guio that's Tampa's fault now, and that was a weird situation. Yeah, I think you're not doing it. It's such a mental position. You're not doing a kicker any favors by trading up for him in the second round in my opinion. Um, but yeah, just draft the guy you like the best, and even if he sucks, well, all your other fifth round picks too, too, like when you're back where you started. Yeah, yeah, I just I

don't know what the strategy has been there. I mean, I don't know if there is a theme to those guys other than tape. Um. I just they haven't they haven't stuck, you know. And I mean Joseph Randall was a pretty good player, but he failed a lot of issues. What he I mean, talent wise, I was a good that was a good player, But like Devon Street, I mean, Ryan Russell, those guys couldn't and even like the most

recent ones in like the past five years. These are names that we've talked about on here, and you're like, Okay, I can see it, but then it just you never really get much out of it and never leads to anything. Really, who are the three after an eye? Like Joe Jackson, Michael Jackson, and Mike White. Which Mike White, I mean Mike White wound up being worth it just for another

team after they cut him. I mean, if I had told you, if I told you that, he would have wound up starting a few games and won a regular season game for you, which he did for the Jets last year. Yeah, against the Super Bowl runner up got The NFL is such a weird league, so crazy, that would be worth it. It's just it just didn't happen here,

which sucks. Which, by the way, when you're talking about that round, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh round picks like I don't think of that as they have to be great here, Like if they keep playing, to me, that means you gotta pick. You got a good pick there. Maybe they didn't work for you long term, but they doesn't make you feel any better, you know, but but it does make you feel better from a standpoint of

the evaluations. Right, the evaluation was right. Yeah, I mean, Xavier Woods to me is a good example of dead, Xavier Woods is still playing football, and so as a sixth round pick to still be playing football, that's a good pick. If Xavier Woods had never played another down after his contract ended here, he would have been a great pick. That's yeah. That like I get I get frustrated sometimes because of like the way people evaluate this stuff, like if you find and obviously his tenure here did

not end well. The comments he made about hustling will forever be remembered. But like for what you got out of him at as pick like one ninety eight or something like that, if you call that a disappointing pick, you're just telling me you don't understand the draft, that's all you're saying. Okay, that's a great pick six. Same thing. We give Noah Brown a lot of crap, but Noah Brown was that's thirty nine. That's my guy for that's

making it work. Pick Year after year, that list has games played on there, and and you know thirty thirty five, you know, forty eight games played. It's like three seasons. I bet you only Scandrick. Only Scandrick, I think, is the only guy that goes over forty games played. And maybe Josh Thomas. No, there are there are a couple. So Orlando Scandrick played one hundred and forty three games. Yeah,

and he started seventy seven. Yeah. Um, as far as other like starts, starts, you have Sean Ryan, he started fifteen and he played fifty three games. Pat Watkins, he played fifty three games. That's pretty good. And then the other one that's up there two is Josh Thomas. And that did not happen here. That happened Carolina. I don't think. Yeah, well,

I mean that's just a total state in general. Yeah, yeah, so I don't even remember Sean Ryan started any game but fifty tight end that was like you started off in the two tight end set and he was not a starter. Yeah, but yeah, look how did the last four? I mean, obviously no starts there with those last four, But the highest one was Joe Jackson with twenty games that he played. You know, he was a special teams guy, you know, that's all he was. Um, I don't think

he's still in the league, Joe Jackson. I don't think so. I will. I will say this though, and like again, your expectations should go down the later you get on day three. But going back to what we said about what Rob said talking about Connor Williams last week is like, when this is your strategy, Like, when you invest this much in the draft, you need to hit on some of these. Like you can't just be like, well, what

you're gonna do it's the fifth round. It's like, no, this is how you're choosing to bring talent into your team. And so many people want to talk about the Rams and what they're doing. A big part of the reason why they can get away with that is they're actually

great on Day three of the draft. Like I'm for all intents and purposes, like, obviously not every pick is gonna hit, but like Obo Okrawanco, Sebastian Day, who's the who's the safety, Jordan Fuller, the guy who made the play on CD in Week one in twenty twenty sixth round pick, Like they're getting starters on Day three, year in and year out. They're finding guys that can contribute. I do think the Cowboys could stand to be a

little bit better. Well, he's the third round. I think that's I think that's a little bit more of a third round to get the best receiver in the league. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a heck of a pick. Yeah. Absolutely. Samson Ecubam, who's been a part of their pass rush, it felt like he was part of their pass rush forever. Was a fourth round pick, like they no Boom Cody note Boom Cody is Wikeman or Wickman, I don't remember, but they found him in the sixth round. Um, they're good.

The Confine starters on Day three have done pretty good at sixth and seventh round. It's just the ironic part is the fifth rounds and this is the year that they're sitting with four. Usually it takes us several years for you to be able to categorize how well the draft went for the Cowboys and all that. But if you had to, like, after we're done with the draft and looking at it, if you had to say, for this year, what would you call a good draft? That

it turned out well for the Cowboys? What would they need to do in this specific draft to say right away before heading into the preseason that this was a good draft Heading into preseason, they need two guys start this year. So with you guys that start for sure, that'd be great heading into preseason. Yeah. Two, that seems that two. Bona five starters and a third that has

a clearly defined role somewhere. The way that's probably going to happen is if they get a wide receiver, probably in the first round, and then get the guard in the second. It could happen other way too, right, Like they could go a guard in the first round and then get a I mean this wide receiver class supposed to be pretty deep, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean he could. Yeah. Could the receiver be better than James Washington and Michael

Gallup's not ready? Yeah, yeah, that could happen. So guard receivers. I think that if that's the first two picks, the hope is that they're both going to be playing Week one of this season because they're gonna have to. Yeah, but yeah, probably will the draft gods be that kind to them like that a guy that's good enough. Could you draft a second round offensive tackle and he's better than Terrence Steele? I mean that could that not happen?

They're they're putting the eggs in that basket. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's Yeah, when I mentioned swing tackle, the fact is that swing tackle's coming in here, and if he's a young draft pick, he's competing with Terrence Steel to be a starter. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah, well, that's one of those things where I wonder, you know, the coaches are like, what are you talking about? Like Terrence Steel all day, every day unless unless we wind

up with that's all that cross. That's exactly why I said, that's in my mind, because my mind may be very different. But yeah, I mean, um Tyler Smith out of Tulsa, if he's hanging around in the second round, Abraham Lucas out of Washington State, um at tackles like edge Rusher though, like the good ones go pretty quick, like great ones aren't usually hanging around by fifty six and certainly not eighty eight. Yep y. So we'll see, we shall see,

and we're almost done. We will have another show right before the draft, which is Draft Thursday, and we'll have a show on Wednesday. And Derek, get a snack. You're ready to go eating, Ryan, let's go. Sorry, well, yes, thank you, thank you so much for joining us live and on demand later on. For Nicki, Derek Eagleton, I have to do this slow. This is like a tongue twister for me, for Nickiman, for Derek Eagleton, David Hellman, a member GARCIA. This has been the Break on Dallas

Cowboys dot Com Radio radio radio. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. H