Episode 1: Dainty

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Today marks 20 years since emergency responders found a murdered woman inside of a burning home in Kill Devil Hills. The victim was 33-year-old Denise Johnson. You wouldn't know it looking at this home that something terrible happened here 20 years ago. A horrible crime that is yet to be solved. I remember seeing heavy black. Vielen Dank. In the air. I just remember a pool of blood and her laying in it. We knew obviously something was way wrong. This wasn't just a routine call.

On July 13th, 1997, someone brutally murdered 33-year-old Denise Johnson inside her childhood home in North Carolina. Then set it on fire. For 22 years, Johnson's killer has elevated I'm your If you were to look at it on a map, the town of Kildeville Hills is about five and a half square miles. It's a beach town in the outer banks of North Carolina. On one side sits the Atlantic Ocean, and on the other is the Croatan Sound.

It has a year-round population of about 6,000 people, and if you live there, you're gonna make a living either fishing, building, or selling real estate, or you might be working at a local restaurant or bar. The area revolves entirely around tourist season, which typically starts in May and runs through October. I grew up there and all of my family still lives there. Nine years ago, I moved away to study journalism and have become an investigative journalist.

I've covered hundreds of crime stories, murders, and cold cases. I've been working as a news reporter for six years, first in Virginia and now I'm working in the hub of some of America's worst crimes, Florida. In 2018, I began reinvestigating this case. I just could not believe that no one had been caught for killing in cold blood a well-known woman from my hometown.

The open-ended case ruined a lot of the perfect picture of how I saw my home. And creating this podcast to re-explore the case and complexities with listeners, I think will benefit not only the public, but law enforcement.

On july thirteenth, nineteen ninety-seven, my family had just moved into our new house on the outer banks. We lived about twenty minutes from Denise Johnson's home. And before daylight broke on that hot July morning and traffic started piling up headed to the beaches. Emergency dispatchers chirped over police and fire radios. Seven eighty five. A house was on fire. That was a firefighter with the town of Kill Devil Hills Fire Department.

A man by the name of Glenn Rainey was the first firefighter on scene to the Johnson home, located at the address of 2014 Norfolk Street. Small house, one story, but it had a pretty significant amount of smoke coming out of it. Coming around the corner, there was heavy smoke blowing across the road.

It didn't take much time, and Rainey and the men on his fire engine were in the neighborhood. Norfolk Street sits just a few hundred yards from the ocean, and the house on fire was sandwiched between several others. Shuttleville Hills is actually a small town. It's only about four and a half square miles, so you tend to go in the same neighborhood frequently. Right in the front yard, Glenn Rainey met first-responding Kill Devil Hills police officer Mark Evans. Mark Evans, kan je help me?

Hey Mark, this is Delia DAMBRA. How are ya? Doing pretty good. How about you? I'm doing well. You got a few minutes this morning? Yeah. My name is Mark Evans and I'm currently the police captain. I don't know what else you play. Been here twenty three years. Years and And back on the the night of the incident I was a patrol officer with the town of Gilbert. On that morning, Evans was finishing his overnight patrol shift when he got the call to go to Norfolk Street.

And I remember that the house on Norfolk Street was either two or three, maybe four houses down on the left, but it was fairly close to the intersection to where I parked my police car there at the intersection and Thank you. I ran on up to the house to see if pretty much what I could do as a first responding police officer. I remember seeing heavy black smoke up in the air.

Officer Evans handled assessing the outside of the house, and Glen Rainey and his crew got to work putting out the fire glowing from inside the cottage. up day which this was early early in the morning, late at night if you will, just when most people are sleeping We don't have someone in the front yard meeting home, there's always a good chance that maybe there's somebody still inside. We hit that fire immediately, dropped the hose and then did the search.

What do you remember from entering the home? that the front door was locked. I actually kicked the door and was able to pop the uh door jam and the door came right open. But it was law. I went to the left to do just a root. layout of this house was there were two bedrooms on the right side of the home. Immediately in was a common like a living room Small carrot. after the home. Small kitchenette, if you will, stove, refrigerator, almost like you would expect to see in a small home. Bye.

to go through there. My partner went to his right and searched both bedrooms and when he got to the bathroom he found the victim, which was Denise, and he called out for me to come help him. Again, it's a small enough house so it didn't take but just a moment to get to him. She was in the bathroom.

in a tile bathroom, remember that. And there was a pretty large pool of blood. We took about three seconds to decide if it was time we needed to remove her from the smoky and hot environment to make sure if there's any chance of saving her that we could. I grabbed her wrist and started backing out of the residence with her onto the uh front sidewalk and was gonna administer CPR because she was unresponsive.

when I went to take my mask off and do open her airway, it was obvious that that was not gonna happen. Here's Mark Evans again.

The next thing I remember is looking through the house, straight down into the was the entrance at the back of this house was the bathroom and I remember seeing by the time the firefighters had located Miss Johnson, I remember with my flashlight, uh, that it was heavy billowing smoke several feet off the ground, I remember seeing what appeared to be a a person down and by that time as as I'm yelling for them they had Grab her. from the structure.

And I remember'em bringing it across the threshold of the of the front door and they dropped her down to I guess to see if we could do any life saving measurements. So again, uh like I said I've been a medic for several years, uh EMT to that point, and they dropped her there one firefighter, maybe two firefighters, uh Glenn Lazare and I and we immediately after a quick assessment of the Bye. It's been down too long.

that some of the skin, her flesh had started to melt off and try to you know, parts of her flesh were s were peeling off due to the heat uh in the time that she had been inside of the house. I do remember that and I also remember doing a quick examination of her body and what appeared to be, you know, some type of a struggle had gone on due to the the wounds that were found on her quickly. I do remember immediately looking and doing an assessment of her and thinking, okay

you know, this is not right, this is not a normal house fire that somebody collapsed and went down in. This is turning into something more quickly. I realize that, you know, we've got a crime scene here. Realizing that, Glenn Rainey and the firefighters pulled back. We knew obviously something was way wrong. This wasn't just a routine call. She had had her throat cut from basically side to side. Mark Evans secured the crime scene and he radioed for a homicide detective to get there quick.

We immediately secured the scene with crime scene tape and I recall how a little bit of water was used and how quick these guys, the firefighters were

instrumental in getting the fire out quickly and backing back to the scene. And I think that had a lot to do with the fire captain as well being prior law enforcement and retired in law enforcement, so we knew what we had. We started a log on who was coming across that crime scene tape and I remember I didn't let anybody once we this was my scene at that time until I Yeah.

Two decades have gone by by this point, and I was amazed by how much detail these men remembered. Details about the house. She was in completely in the bathroom. Her feet were towards the wall, her head was towards the door. Very small. Very small house, very small everything, very small bedroom, small bathroom. And details about the victim. Both Mark Evans and Glenn Rainey remember this call so vividly because it really was unlike anything they'd seen before.

Homicide investigators later determined that in this case, someone set multiple fires inside the house. How long do you think that fire had been burning, in your professional opinion? I don't know. I couldn't give you a exact time but not long. Not thirty minutes, but I mean less than that. How many were visibly seen in the home? I believe there was three individual political organs. My chance.

There was one in the spare bedroom which was her roommate's room on a pillow that like someone threw a match and it just burned into like a cone and then went out, it could extinguish itself. There was also a fire started in a lingerie drawer in Denise's bedroom that did not it also burned out. It didn't flare up. I don't know if And the sofa were the product of the same fire, or if it was one in one, I have no way of knowing that. And when I went back in to fit the

Open up the building and the back door was locked and the stove was on. All four eyes were on high on the electric stove. These randomly placed fires, particularly the one that Glenn Rainey says was started in Denise's underwear drawer, piqued my interest. But it was how the kitchen looked at the crime scene that stood out to Rainey the most. In the world of true crime, the real story isn't always in the headlines. It's in the evidence. I'm Brandy Churchwell, host of 13th Euro Podcast.

And I'm here to take you past the news cycle and straight into the courtroom. Every week I'll break down the investigation, the prosecution, the defense. And everything that unfolds beyond the jury box. We'll examine every testimony, every exhibit, and every hidden motive. Listen to Thirteenth Juror wherever you get your podcast. What stood out to Glenn Rady the most was how Denise's kitchen looked. There's nothing on the stove, there was no fire on the stove. It was four bright hot, red hot.

My impression was it was somebody that was really quickly trying to figure out a way to how to destroy the house, that it was unplanned, kind of a a knee-jerk, what can I do to to make this go away? Just this my opinion. On top of remembering that weird scene in the kitchen, Rainey mentioned something else that really made my ears perk up. The house has been ransacked.

First thing I thought was a robbery until of course we found until we had Denise. We knew it wasn't a robbery. Or we didn't feel like it was a robbery. A robbery would explain a lot, except my big question was why someone started the fires. Arson is used to cover up a lot of stuff, to throw people off to sit. Arson to conceal a murder, posed as a robbery. It's an interesting theory and one that we'll look closer at a little later in this episode.

After my first interviews with both of these men, I couldn't help but think about a glaring piece of information that Glenn Rainey had mentioned to me. He moved Denise's body from where she was likely murdered. Remember, he said he carried her out of the crime scene and into the front yard. Now anyone who's watched any kind of crime scene forensic show knows that's usually not the best idea. So I wanted to clarify with Glenn Rainey exactly why he did what he did.

when you picked Denise up and dragged her out of the home At that point did you believe she was still living? I was sure hoping she was. There was a some glimmer of hope to save her. I just remember a pool of blood and her laying in it. It wasn't a small cut. She was cut deep and wide.

It made sense. Before first responders know for sure that a person is dead, they're gonna do whatever they can to save them. It's their job. In Denise's case, the smoke from the fire made it difficult to see Denise's initial wounds inside the house. Putting out the fires with tons of water and then moving her body, that almost guaranteed evidence would get disturbed.

It's a fact of the case that's been pretty much undeniable to investigators for twenty-two years, but it doesn't mean that anyone did anything wrong. Denise's own sister, Donnie Johnson, wrestles with this reality. I'm a free thought. you know, my department got the call that night and they just got a call with a fire so they didn't even think, you know, that it was a murder. So they just went in as a routine So right then and there you got that lost right there.

Donnie has made it her mission to be in the public eye whenever possible over the last 22 years. She's been trying to raise awareness about her younger sister's unsolved murder. Donnie Johnson says she still has hopes that someday, even though it's been 20 years, someday, someone will step forward and give the family the answers they've been looking for. If you have any information, give police a call.

News stations in eastern North Carolina and up in Virginia, they run the same story about the cold case every year on the anniversary. Investigators say she had been stabbed. Their quick reports are just a reminder to Donnie that her sister's cold case remains cold and getting even colder. To prevent that, Donnie has made herself available for interviews every time a reporter comes knocking. This is my sister. And I'm a top battery on the list. She was a sweet girl. She really, really was.

sweet person. There's so many reasons why it shouldn't be stopped, you know. She immediately jumped on board with this podcast and now her and I talk weekly to discuss the case and go over leads. Well, I'm glad you're doing this because you've shown more interest than anybody ever, in my opinion. Well, I think, you know, any eyes that can try to help is a good thing, that's what I think. Thank you.

The biggest thing I take away from our talks is that Donnie wants the people to remember her younger sister as more than just a murder victim. room, you know, everybody loved her. She was a little naive, you know, and the youngest of us all, she was kinda babied by mommy, you know, so Thank you. little bit naive about people and reading people and stuff. She just trusted everybody.

Donnie says that summer she was killed. Denise was working as a waitress and she kept a pretty close group of friends. In every way, Denise was your typical woman living at the beach in nineteen ninety seven. She and her golden retriever named Kay Ridge. They were living the summer dream. That was her bud, I guess.

her baby, yeah. Well Denise loved animals. I mean she loved animals to death anyway. You know, she really wanted to be a vet, it was her dream. But any dog she had it was a tight friend. Because Denise was so well known in the Outer Banks community, her case got a lot of attention when the murder occurred. Local newspapers all watched the case closely. The mystery gripped everyone, but especially people who knew the Johnson family. Coincidentally, people like firefighter Glenn Rainey.

The easy part was figuring out, yeah, there was a fire and it started here, here and here. But that was that was the end of the easy for that particular And then when it's somebody that you have seen and and has been to your fire station before with their sister and it just makes it harder. After all this time has passed, consistent attention to Denise's case in the media has dropped off.

Really these days the people on the outer banks of North Carolina aren't the only ones that talk about it anymore. Oh I guarantee you somebody in a bar somewhere has talked about it. I guarantee it. You know, people get loose when they're drinking a lot and I'm sure somebody's talked about it and I'm sure there's people down there that know because of the lifestyle they live, they're too afraid to come forward.

From the moment she learned that someone had intentionally killed Denise, Donnie wanted to be involved in the case as much as possible. She'd been a firefighter in Kill Double Hills for years, and as more details about the use of fire in Denise's murder were revealed. Donnie couldn't help but develop her own theories. Donnie Johnson Denise's sister has developed her own theory of who took her sister's life twenty two years ago.

involved just by the way the fires were set. You know, being from a firefighter's perspective I felt always that there was a woman involved. Yeah, a little dainty. You know, a man's gonna do it quick and use an accelerant and just Sorry. You know. woman is more scared to of an accelerant and more scared of fire. So they're gonna do it where they feel it's not gonna like be a big fire at first.

I wanted to feel that theory out more and compare it to what Glenn Rainey thought. After all, he'd been at the scene in 97 and put out the fires himself. After the murder, Rainey continued to work as a Kill Devil Hills firefighter, and now he's the fire chief in the neighboring town of Collington, North Carolina. their profiles. That's different.

types of arson estate fall into certain categories regardless of who they are. Some people do it for glory. Some people do it, you know, out of revenge. Children have different profiles when they start setting fires as young you know, it could be a just a pile of leaves in the backyard with Could be the security guard of a company that wants recognition and he ignites and extinguishes a fire, then reports it, or something like that. Terrorist strict profiles, these people.

Under and my captain had to he said almost immediately that this was a woman that did this. And I believe him. The reason is turning on the That is very personal. The silk pillow in the roommate's bedroom, that's personal. I mean that is I don't know about the wound itself. I guess anybody can do that with a knife but setting multiple fires and not sticking around to see if it's gonna take I would tend to agree with his opinion that it was a female that did this and started this fire.

Rainy explained to me that in an arson investigation the point of origin is defined as the exact spot where flames ignited. In a structure that's been burned all over, it's a hard factor to determine. Inside Denise Johnson's house, the odds were in investigators' favor. We know there is at least three points of origin. That's Fire doesn't start that way. I was three eyes. The main fire was in the couch, in the chair, in the living room as soon as you came in the front door. This is a tiny house.

And then there was a pillow that had been burned in the room mate's bedroom, which it didn't go anywhere. It didn't extend. It it went out. It burned down and went out and someone, whoever the same person had tried to burn the lingerie drawer Denise's room and that didn't do anything but milk.

The lingerie drawer's open, none of the other drawers were open. And that's where something gets dropped and it melts. It didn't burn. It didn't ignite. It just melted. Lighting a fire in a lingerie drawer? That's personal. That is very personal.

I agreed. Setting a woman's underwear drawer on fire was super, super eerie and threw up a lot of red flags that meant the crime was possibly personal. But did the underwear drawer or fire really indicate something about the killer, or was it just a coincidence?

For the answer I enlisted the expertise of well, an expert. Chris Morgan served on the Raleigh Police Department for twenty nine years. I worked drugs. I worked homicide the last eight years of my career. That's Chris Morgan and he's worked dozens of homicides in the state of North Carolina, primarily for the Raleigh Police Department.

He's been featured on television true crime documentaries across the country, and his resume made him the perfect brain to pick to better understand details in Denise's case like the burned lingerie drawer. Is that a tour that you would be the first tour you come to? Is it just a matter of convenience or Is it something that well he had to do a little bit of maneuvering once? He had to pull out five or six drawers because he was looking for one specific Come on. But contain underwear.

underwear more combustible than other clothing that would be found in somebody's dresser or chest or drawers. I mean if you look in a set of fire naturally you want a source of fuel, a source of combustion that's going to rapidly escalate and hopefully burn the piece of furniture and then burn The rest of the house. But on the other hand, it could, you know, as far as burning the victim's underwear, it's possible that could be some symbolic gesture.

Indicating that the offender was more organized rather than disorganized. He made a good point. Was there even a way to know if the underwear drawer was specifically chosen because it was personal to Denise? Morgan's response seemed to speak more to the state of the mind of the killer. There are basically two types of offenders when we talk about offender behavior. There are organized and disorganized offenses.

Organize fenders, plan ahead, do things in a well established and sequence that they put a whole lot of force like bought into and up to Everything stays just as planned. Very hard to catch those kind of people, but the majority of murders are committed by what we call disorganized Vendor. They don't think things out. They don't take steps to conceal their identity, to alleviate the possibility of leaving physical evidence that can be connected to them. And a lot of times

is part and parcel with that. They don't pick it out. They don't go there and necessarily commit the crime. Although legally it makes very little difference because the definition of criminal intent as far as homicide goes can be formed in the twinkling of an eye, as the saying is. So there's no difference in the what I call the scale of evil between a homicide that's committed even though the original intent wasn't commit the homicide and a one that's well planned out, thought out.

If whoever killed Denise is an organized offender, as Morgan said, they would have probably brought their own accelerance to start the fire, and makes me think they would have had a plan. But the answer to whether accelerants like gasoline or lighter fluid were used is something Glenn Rainey says is highly unlikely. Honestly, I don't think there was uh accelerant used in that. I think they live

It's whatever is available at the time. You throw like I said, throwing a match on a pillow and not hanging around to see if it's gonna catch The sofa obviously caught or the chair, one or the other. I don't recall there being talk of accelerants. I think I was it and gas the whole thing's gonna be lit off. These were spot fires. In your career, and this may be sort of an obvious question, but in your career have you ever seen anything like this? Not murdering all.

I've seen people who have been shot before and and stabbed and unfortunately you do it a long time, you've got to run into that. It's right.

but you're gonna run into it. But nothing nothing like that. That was the rage filled incident in my mind. It was a very somebody was very angry to do that. Whoever did that didn't stick around to make sure they were gonna burn. It was in my mind and my my captain at the time was a fire investigator and an experienced fire investigator and so he would give us little insight on every call we went to.

He's very good about that. And he said this was a quick, real quick, didn't know what they're doing pipe fire.'Cause they were scared to hang around and see what was gonna happen next.

I needed to get my hands on an official report, some sort of paperwork, something that could provide clarity about the fire. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that most important to a criminal investigation, other than solving it, is that there's a paper trail made to outline every step agencies take.

Documents, whether electronic or paper, they have a single source and location, somewhere on a computer or on a shelf. In twenty eighteen, I began hunting for the Arson investigation report for Denise Johnson's case. My first stop was emailing the Dare County Fire Marshal. The town of Kildeville Hills is within the greater government entity of Dare County. A lot of public records, particularly for calls like involving house fires, will require a town's fire department write up a report.

But the county fire marshal can also retain records. When I inquired, that department happened to be doing inventory of old files and revealed something very interesting. In the world of true crime, the real story isn't always in the headlines. It's in the evidence. I'm Brandy Churchwell, host of 13th Euro Podcast. And I'm here to take you past the news cycle and straight into the courtroom. Every week I'll break down the investigation, the prosecution, the defense.

And everything that unfolds beyond the jury box. We'll examine every testimony, every exhibit, and every hidden motive. Listen to 13th Juror wherever you get your podcast. It took a couple weeks. The Dare County Fire Marshal responded to me and said the office didn't have any record of the Denise Johnson house fire in their archives. An arson report did not exist with Dare County.

A report does exist with the town of Kildevil Hill's clerk, but it's off limits as part of the murder case file with the police department. So I needed to find another way to get it. And I know there are larger agencies that typically oversee fire investigations, especially arson of a residential structure.

I went to the North Carolina State Fire Marshal's office, but in nineteen ninety-seven it says it was not the keeper of records for major arson investigations. The State Bureau of Investigation handled all of those records. I submitted a request with the NCSBI for anything and everything it had on Denise's case. Here's a friend to narrate the SBI attorney's response to my inquiry.

NCSBI investigative files are considered records of criminal investigations. Thus, the NCSBI criminal investigative files are not public records.

and can only be released to the prosecutor. However, the following information from the file is considered public record. On july thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, Chief Ray Davis of the Kill Devil Hills Police Department requested the SBI to conduct an investigation into a fire which occurred at approximately three thirty at two oh one four Norfolk Street, Kildevil Hills, NC. The complaining witness was Chief Ray Davis of the Kill Devil Hills Police Department.

The SBI's attorney wrote that the agency also did not have anything in its case file regarding 911 calls, names of suspects, information about the victim, or about the nature of the homicide. It was asked to help kill Devil Hills police in investigating a fire. That was it. So all of this meant I wasn't going to be able to see any arson investigation report for myself. It's just not available to the public.

If I couldn't see it for myself, I wanted to find the person who did the arson investigation. And according to first responding firefighter Glenn Rainey, that job fell to one man the day of the murder. A fire captain with the town of Kildevil Hills and the man in charge of Glen Rainey and his crew on july thirteenth. Here's Rainey again. The town at the time had a certified fire investigator on staff, and he happened to be the captain that was working for the

Like Captain Horgan. He was an experienced investigator from the Pittsburgh area, had worked as a detective in fire investigations, had worked with the ATF, so he was the right guy to have Captain Horgan was very much on top of the fire investigation with the detectives. I remember like Jim Mofford and some other people being there as it was unfolding. Glen Rainey told me Captain Denny Horgan is almost impossible to contact these days. A very

Very private he always was a private person. When he calls you, his cell number comes up as unlisted, so I never answer it, so I always have to call him back. He's not on social media in any way, shape or form. very very very private person. He's always been that way. He doesn't put his stuff out there for anybody. It was definitely a long shot, but I gave Glenn Rainey my number to pass along to Horgan, and while I waited, I brought up Horgan to Donny Johnson to see if she would have known him.

He went with me afterwards and we did a whole R you know, he w he came from Baltimore so he was an arson investigator already. And we did a whole he did a whole arson investigation. You know, we were drawing it all up and marking it and all that. We did a whole deal on it. it was a mess, you know, when we went in there were rubber gloves everywhere. I mean And w and we have we just knew. We knew that Steen had been really contaminated and it was gonna be really

We knew what they took. We first walked all the way around the house and looked for anything we could see, you know, the perimeter search and then we went in and tried to piece together how the fires were started. A lot of them were just started by being pushed together. Or Papers could be found, you know, they real quick like there were no accelerants used.

I had already assumed because, you know, the lighter thing that that's what they used, you know. They never found any evidence of matches or anything like that. Donnie Johnson and Danny Horgan not finding evidence after the SBI crime scene tech had been through the house isn't exactly surprising.

That tech would have collected everything of evidentiary value. Donnie says her and Denny Horgan's walkthrough was more for her peace of mind and curiosity. But there are many answers she didn't get and many things she remains forever curious about.

Where's the murder weapon? And how did the killer overpower Denise in her own home? I also feel like there was a man there because Denise was real strong so it had to have be someone strong enough to overpower her and believe Growing up, you know, as kids when we'd argued, you know, her deal was scratching your eyeballs out, you know. If she had any kind of chance she would have claimed, The shit house is hot and I just feel that there hasn't been more than one person there.

And I feel like there was a woman there because of the way the fires were set because a man, you know, they're not gonna do it on dates like that. Was Denise alone the entire night? Why was she naked? Law enforcement has never released those answers to the public. Only investigators and the killer know that information.

As I work on this podcast, I keep coming back to one critical detail that's a point of debate between Denise's family and the first responders. Many first responders will tell you Denise was locked inside of her house. I specifically asked Glenn Rainey about this. The front door was locked, the back door was locked, and all of the windows were down and locked. I don't know if they were lost, but they were all down.

If somebody left she didn't start the fire cut her own throat. That's defin you know, that's not even possible, I don't believe. But somebody should have walked out that door and I mean, kinda odd. That is. Knowledge of the house if you're able to do all that. Most people would just light it and run. Donnie Johnson says the house's front door didn't lock. It had a lock, but it didn't work. The door required a few firm pushes to finally get it open.

There was no lock on it. I lived there. Denise and I lived there for three years together when I was first pregnant back in the eight. Somebody could have come in that front door. Easy. is easy. The back door had a lock on it, but the front door didn't lock. But you would think it was locked because it was so hard to open. And you'd have Like a Sick and a force to get that. Denise didn't think of putting a lock on that front door. Nobody locked their doors back in that day.

No Bobby. We just didn't. Whether the front door was unlocked or not, the family, investigators, and police, they do agree on one thing. Субтитры сделал DimaTorzok But I don't think that she buyed an interesting. First responding firefighter Glenn Rainey agrees. That was somebody that was scared to death, but they were already there. Denise was called

with whoever was in that home. I believe that in my heart. Nobody forced their way into that home and did that. I believe in my heart that she was comfortable and knew that person. Amen.

Early on in this investigation, everyone was hopeful someone Denise knew in the small town would provide clues, something that could help detectives. Here's Mark Evans. I kept thinking that first twenty four hours, somebody's gonna talk. We're gonna get somebody into custody pretty on this case. When the days went to weeks, it's like wow, this is Unheard of. I mean it's like the person just Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok Next time on Counterclock.

He says, What about the roommate? What do you think of the roommate? I said, Well, I thought she was weird and he said, Well, um, got a few people when we say something about the roommate Remember trying to get the door open and this guy was banging on the window. If there was anybody in there shouting to come out or I do remember that one gentleman I got my fellow co officer that was there that night to go and make sure he did not then we need to get a statement from him on what he saw.

Make sure you rate and subscribe to Counterclock on Apple Podcasts. If you're enjoying this series, please be sure to subscribe and follow us on social media. You'll get behind-the-scene looks at the investigation. We're on Twitter at counterclockpod and on Instagram, look for the handle counterclock podcast. Counterclock is an audio chuck original podcast. Ashley Flowers is the executive producer, and all reporting and hosting is done by me, Delia D'Ambra.

Every case file, interview, and archive tells a piece of the truth. I'm Kylie Lowe and on my podcast, Dark Down East, original reporting is at the heart of every case I cover. I don't just retell crime stories, I investigate them. I'm speaking with families, searching court records and piecing together the facts that have been overlooked and forgotten with time. The result? True crime storytelling that digs as deeply into a case as you do. You can listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your.