Witchcraft & Vampire Cults! (Feat. The Occult Rejects)

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Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode we got a very very special guest and I guess a special show on topic for you. But before we get to the guests, I do want to introduce you to the other rejects that are joining us tonight. Tonight, I'm going to start with Heidi to the left of me. Heidi, let everybody know what your deal is and what's up and where they can find all your amazing work.

Please awesome, I am Heidi, love of the Unfiltered Rise. I'm everywhere podcasts are served. My little forte is Mormons because I used to be one, and also JFK because I'm a weirdo.

I don't know anything that has to do with that, right, and.

So find me there and at Unfilteredrise podcast dot com thank you for having me.

Happy to be here listen, no, thank you, thank you, and uh maybe new listeners that might be coming across the show for the first time. Definitely go check out her Mormon Mafia series on here. That is that is on fire. Great work, especially JJ. You know he's he's involved in it too. Some great stuff. Definitely check it out. And JJ, you're next. What's up, sir? Let everybody know what your deal is.

Nick Creating, Sir, appreciate the invite. As always, I enjoyed the occult rejects roundtable discussions we have here, but tonight, you know specifically because I ever since I encountered a Kentucky vampire cult years ago that I've long been interested in these subjects. So JJ vance not the vice president, it's Operation GCD. Definitely looking forward to the conversation Julia and Heidi is always great to join you.

It's that's great to meet you.

Awesome, thank you very much. Yeah, And when I had asked her to come on, I was like, I have to ask him to come on, because I'm gonna be honest, I really didn't entertain vampire cults too much until you had me on and we talked about it. I was like, oh, this is really interesting. So I got to get my man off for this. So thank you, Like I had told you, I think I said, you probably inspired this somehow, so I appreciate it. And next, lest but not least, Cosmic Peach Julia, what up? What's going on?

What's up? Nick? I'm excited to be here. This is gonna be a good one. I can already tell by the guest Bangs, I was just commenting on before we got started. She's fabulous. But yeah, no, I have Cosmic Peach podcasts. If you haven't found me already, you never will. Honorary Occult reject for the night though. Excited to be here, Yeah.

Thank you very much. Always a pleasure to have you. And finally to the guest, Celeste Moott, writer wickan witch rat, Mom, all sorts of things. Please let everybody know. I guess what your deal is where if because I do know you have social media, which I include that in the bottom for people, but if you want to let people know, I guess maybe what your deal is and where they can find your stuff, and I guess after that we'll get into how you got involved in the an Rise vampire cle.

Oh what a story it is. Yeah. So, my name's Celes Mott. I'm been a full time professional which as my only source of income for about seven eight years, and been sort of doing a cult work for about twenty years. And yeah, also mother of rats. I have several rats that I caretake. And I'm a writer. I went to school for poetry and am currently working on a book about what I went viral for unexpectedly the last week. So I'm excited about all of that. You

That is great. I'll have to edd you over on TikTok. I don't know you're over there.

Yeah yeah, so.

Uh, I guess, you know, I guess maybe if you can maybe even give us like a I guess, an idea like where you were in your life when this evens, Like how did you even come about to get get into it, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, for sure. So I joined this on. It was the whole thing started online, and those of you who's seen the videos will kind of know the genesis of the story. And the Internet of two thousand and three was not the Internet of twenty twenty five. It was different in many many ways. So I was in high school at the time. I think I was fifteen. I might have been sixteen, just but I was a kid, you know, living with my mom in Australia, which is where I go up, and you know, I just was

I love it.

So this is like a real cult that's still I mean they still have it's still operating, and.

That's a great question. What I can say is this, the people who ran this group definitely do still have an online presence. And the presence that they have online now you know, you can it's a URL that anybody can type in, and anyone can go to this little back end site, but you can't see anything. They have a form that you can fill out and you can say, you know, were you a current are you a current member, where you a former member? Are you a total new

Did they give names like my name is this? My name is that? Like specific vampires from like the nos.

Yeah, so the kind of the setup of the whole group, and this was part of what when I first found it made me think of like, oh, this is a bunch of bullshit, you know, like I don't know, I'm assuming we can swear on the occult regents and I'm assumed cursing is signed. Sometimes like no, I'm like, I'm from Australia. There's nothing I can do about that. But yeah, so most internet forums fandom stuff, you know, and rice or whatever fandom that you were looking at that existed

The truth scientigence, right.

I don't know if you know, Oh, I was just going to say, I didn't know if you knew about some of the other ones. I actually interviewed an ex vampire already. He was from another really yeah, and he was in a guys one.

It was this guy.

He's a famous guy and they do like shows and you can go to the show and like they have like graves and stuff like that, and like back about the same timeframe.

I can't remember the guy's name that he was a part.

Of the same Is this the Sanguinarian group. It's not, it's not. He has the best and is it?

I think it might be the best.

Yeah, those well, I know, yeah, I know, I know those folks a little bit.

Yeah. He sent me a whole bunch of literature. It was super interesting.

He sent me like the Temple of the Vampire books and stuff, and I read a whole bunch of it before.

So fascinating to hear too.

Like he was explaining about like the mental vampiism versus yeah.

Energy stuff, and that's a funny thing about the group. I was in like even though at first blush you look at it and you think, well, that's peyton ridiculous, of course, like this person on the internet forum is not a fictional vampire written by Anne Rice. God Rest

Wow, it sounds like, go ahead, I know you're done. How to go ahead?

Oh?

I was just gonna say, so, did you like get involved with the other ones? Do they all come together and like meet at certain times or I mean.

Not explicitly, I guess I think like with any weird subculture, you know, in the same way as the goth subculture intersects with the vampire subculture, oftentimes just because you got some shared interests. There were definitely individual members of the group I was in, and possibly also moderators that did intersect with the sanguinarian community. It's a little convoluted, but

Wow, okay, awesome, thank you.

Yeah, you welcome, Celesti.

You were saying, well, now I have a new question also to add on there. I appreciate that what's the sanguinarian.

What is this?

So the sanguinarian community, And again being not myself a part of that community, I can only speak as a kind of fringe outsider. So if if anything up and somebody watches this, don't come from me, oh my gosh. But my understanding is that the sanguinarian community is a vampire based subculture where the participants do drink human blood. They believe in some sense that they are vampires or that they are and sometimes sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's

But some of them will blood eggs.

Yeah, or you know, you'll have a donor and someone you know, you'll have your your donor who up.

Yeah he said, it's all like they he was on each other. Yeah, and it has to be like all checked out and like yeah contracts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's because in a way it kind of overlaps. Again, it's it is not necessarily the kink scene, but it intersects with the kink scene.

So you have a way of saying, yeah, I can easily, I can even say that's like you'll sometimes wonder if that's why you get that kind of even within Like I saw that with the ot O, how I could see how it does kind of connect to the kink scene in a way, And I think that's how you get some of the more weirder ones showing up.

Yeah I'm not I'm not into Yeah, I'm not into kink shaming or anything like that, but I mean, I just it's the thought of it to me is just like you have to wonder if there's not a bit of like mental illness involved when you take it to that point.

I think the body people there is. I mean, when you think about just the prevalence of mental illness generally, I mean, so many of us are not necessarily entirely well for various reasons, and there's a lot of trauma that brings people into communities like that. I mean, even in the goth community, there's a lot of trauma at play because you're an outsider, you've been an outside of your whole life. You're not fitting into the mainstream. I think the same is true of the wider occult community.

But yeah, you're right, you know, yeah, like drinking blood and starting a cult. Hey, I wouldn't mind starting a cult if it was like like fake vamporism. I'm down with that. Like, I could almost see myself getting involved with fake vamporism cults because I grew up in the generation where it was like Twilight, and you know, it was very much kind of sensationalized, and I would have found myself like wanting to be a part of that stuff. Sure, But I was going to ask, oh, yeah, you go ahead, JJ.

Well, no, that's a great point. That's well, that's that's exactly I was going to ask. Less, was the impact of these these errors of film and whatnot. It sounds like you joined this form around the time of the turn of the millennium.

Yeah. I think I probably signed up around two thousand and three, so right about then.

Yeah, okay, so you saw the full scope of some of these films, Like Juliet just pointed out, like, did that impact this community at all?

All these films?

I mean, I think like the vampire boom that happened in the early two thousands, Like that's what it felt like to me, much like we kind of had witchcraft boom a little bit in like twenty twenty because everybody was stuck in their houses and so which talk became huge, you know, on TikTok. I think the early two thousands had a little vampire boom for whatever reason. I think Twilight was a big part of that. For sure.

Julian was enjoying that.

Huh dude, I would have joined it in a second back in seventh grade. Yeah, because it's.

Appealing, Like, there's something very, very universally appealing about the vampire as an archetype like it. You know, vampires if we don't count like Nosparatu, which is a whole mother matter, but you know, they're they're sexy, and they're eternally young, and they're powerful, and you know, if you're especially in the world of Anne Rice and Twilight honestly, but you know, if you're a vampire, you don't never see like a poor, homeless vampire. You don't never see like a vampire that's

Pitt literally interview.

There was some big cultural films, cultural impact films, right, what was the vampire Yeah, Empire.

Film Blade, also.

Like the Amazing Yeah they.

Were Yeah, the first one I liked, second one was all right after that, let's not talk about it.

I mean, going all the way back to the beginning of time, they are mentioned of vampires. I actually just covered this in a separate episode on another show. And uh they even say like the very first wife of Adam, her name was Lilith, that she she was even vampiric, kind of like an immortal being who sustained off of the life of other people or something like that. And I mean it goes all the way back to literally the beginning of time, So there is an obsession with it.

I would do it.

Yeah, but see I would be a ginger goth in their exiled So nobody wants me at the party.

Everybody loves Gingers. I don't know.

Yeah, but yeah, there's like a sexiness to the vampire thing. You never see like a crackheaded, you know vampire. That's it's like not very resourceful. It's always My mom watched a show when I was growing up. It was called Dark Shadows. Yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with that. I was obsessed with it. And then Tim Burton did that with Johnny Depp. He made Johnny Depp barnabas Collins, and I think that movie is incredible. I love it. But even that show in itself, I would have joined

So did they have the literature for you?

They're just like I was explaining, like he had books on books on books, like there was so many books.

Oh yeah with that vampire and stuff.

Yeah. And I think it's because like if if the and I got to go back now and watch the episode, because that's how I'm like listened to the episod, that sounds fascinating. But if it's the same group that I'm thinking of, parts of that sanguinary and community and like the real vampire community, it does kind of cross into almost being a religion or like a you know, I mean, not like a formal religion. But they have just like Felamidas, they have holy books, they have like tenets, right, they

Well, I know that vampire novels are very are kind of synonymous with like romance novels, but just kind of like that has like the vampire element, kind of like Twilight. But I know several serial killers who were inspired by romance novels. I mean, there is a serious obsession with it. Did they ever ask you, like extort you for money or anything like that, like you can get this copy if you pay X dollars or anything.

Nothing super explicit. Somebody on TikTok asked me this as well. And I think it's because when you talk about when you talk about cults, oftentimes people are like, well, where's the financial incentive? Because that is sort of typical as the cult leader makes a lot of money. You know, you look at Keith Nary from nexim or you look at like any of these assholes, they wind up riches kings.

Did they ever show their faces.

Nope, never, not to my knowledge. I mean, and this is the other weird thing though, And I've been down the rabbit hole for the past week since. You know, I didn't intend to start telling this story on TikTok. I was recovering from a sinus infection and I was looking at my TikTok account. No, man, I had a lot of engagement recently, like just yapping on the internet. What if I just like, what if I just tell

I have like, oh yeah, you can see like on your on your Instagram, you even.

The web share. Yeah, screenshots of like what the website used to look like and everything. So I was ruthless. I was known for it at the time, and it made them very uncomfortable and probably continues to make them very uncomfortable.

But I you know what you could probably do now that I'm just saying, if you ever wanted to, like, oh I wish I could go back, you could probably use the wayback machine and possibly find some of them.

There's some stuff there I looked. Yeah.

Yeah.

Because the forum password protected and you had to have an account to really see anything, you can't find anything much like with regard to that, but you can see their old websites and stuff. It's Banana's. But regarding their faces, there was so many layers of like bullshit and subterfuge and obfuscation, and so there was never a moment when like the person playing with stat who you know, who

Oh, dang, so she never saw your stuff?

No, maybe not. Let you be free to do it, you know what I mean?

Did you feel like kind of a spiritual strange little like crossing over, you know something? This lady left this modal coil and somehow the the truth was set free. But that was weird, So I guess in theory, I have seen one of their faces just in a twenty minute long memorial video, which was very surreal.

Did she look notable.

Or just like a little old lady? She really seventy five year old woman.

Yeah, I was going to say, did she look like she was eternally sixteen or anything?

Very unfortunately we're all concerned to know she did not.

Yeah, sorry, Celeste, I'm going to jump in really quick.

I called as I was a little bit late.

I apologize to everybody, and thank you Nick obviously for hosting me. But so this is very interesting to me. You're saying like a woman, uh, sort of founded the cult.

And I know that.

I've discussed this with Heidi, I've discussed this with JJ and I'm sure Julia is familiar with it. But the idea in process obviously Marianne Grimston and like this kind of like Mother Prophet Seer Love later. And my friend Ashley, who's in the chat right now, she is studying another calls out of North Caro Lina called the Word of Faith and they are called is also run by a woman, an older woman, and they call her the Mother Prophet.

We never knew her identity for sure. Like the only way I know that this woman almost certainly did found the whole thing is through like you know, almost twenty years of various different people sleuthing and putting the pieces together and you know, adding it all up over the years. So this woman never came clean as herself and said, yeah, it's me, I'm behind it. She never stepped, you know, out onto the stage and took any kind of responsibility that we would have given her a special name. She

Basically was it was like she's seen them, She's telling you they're real. But I mean, I'm just surprised that they didn't try to, like say, if you paid X number dollars, you could get to meet one of them or something, or like, I'm surprised they didn't they didn't try to like monetize that in some way, like I mean, I need one go ahead.

I'm sorry, JJ.

No, that that's a great point.

I was thinking the same thing what was their in game, but they're not trying to monetize it, Like what is their in game?

Well, they make a lot of money on these balls she's talking about. You have to dress a certain way, you have to have everything to the utmost, like like a big deal.

Yeah. And if they were in some way connected with which I don't know if they were or not. I mean, you know, again, before anyone's lawyers descend upon me, I'm definitely not saying that my group no were officially a part of that, but there may have been other income streams. But I think also any attempts they made to monetize just didn't work. I mean, their last ditch effort to monetize was around about twenty ten and they started this like vampire Facebook thing. It was. It was pretty well

Really, how many people do you, like round about were involved in the group when you were When I was.

A part of the group, there were about I want to say three or four hundred people like registered as aaing.

That's pretty good, that's pretty good for Yeah, I mean not all of them are hustred or something.

Yeah, not all of them were like regularly active. So we had definitely that many people who were there and observing or whatever. I would say in terms of like active participating members probably close it about one hundred and fifty.

Did you just get rid of it with age or they use said they kicked you out or.

Oh yeah they kicked me out, which I would use to.

Send me proof and they were like, you know what, you're out of the group.

Pretty much honestly, Yeah, I would love to say that I had just matured and become a more sensible person and walked away, but very sadly, no, they eroded my mental health over I mean, you know, other things were also eroding my mental health and fairness. They're not completely responsible. But I was not doing well in my early twenties and my late teens, and I think for me, you know, a lot of my peers who were in the same group were able to take things a little bit more

I'll get you kicked out every time.

Yes it will, Yes, it will. And so that's it, and that's why they booted me. Ultimately, was just having conversations with the wrong people, asking too many questions. And I think from their perspective, you know, not to not to be overly fair to a bunch of people who light and manipulated miners for years, but from their perspective, I think it was like this. You know, I was making trouble. I was not just swallowing what they had to tell me and sitting down quietly and dealing with it.

So mm hmmm, yeah, no kidding, Hey, JJ, that sounds like the Mormons.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

That sounds like the same damn experience serious former Mormons.

I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, and I.

Feel like it's common to a lot of those groups, right, Like, but my roommate actually is a former Mormons, so I've I've heard Mormon stuff. But also, you know, scientology, you've got the same thing. If you're out, you're out. That's it. You're a non person, and they're going to tell us, socialise about you, and turn other people against you. And this was much the same, just on a very smaller scale.

Well, the scientologists are hiding what what are they hiding?

I have theories.

I'd rather be a part of the vampire cult than the Mormons, just just saying they're waiting. I'd much rather be part of a vampire cult. But I did have a question for you. Have you ever watched the show or the movie called Catfish? Yeah, okay, so you know how like in the in the movie Catfish, like the original Catfish story, he shows up and it's the one lady and she's playing like many many roles. I mean,

One hundred percent. I remember watching Catfish for the first time. I can't remember when that came out, but it's going to have been sometime in the early two thousands, I think, And I remember watching it at the time and being

No, for sure, what are your theories not not legally tendering any kind of uh aspect behind that?

Yeah? Yeah, we got to cover cover our legal basis my theories. So, as I said, you know, yesterday was a weird day because I found this lady's obituary and by adding certain things, I mean there were pictures in this lady's like oh bit slide show that I remember being posted to the forum. So I was like, oh, this is her? And then I ran it by a friend of mine who actually met this woman in real life. I said, just to confirm, is this is this? You know, I'm not going to say her name, but is this

You know.

I was going to ask earlier because I was wondering, like sometimes just like even if people just being manipulated and used, it might be an occultist this somewhere, And I was going to ask if they entertained the occult on this form. I just didn't get to asking it, So I guess I guess they didn't. They were open about it.

Yeah, they were open about it. They were looking back, you know, I think teaching us in some ways. I mean a lot of us were kids. I was a kid, and I definitely learned about a lot of these occult topics and was sort of guided through how to do further research and learn more by these people. Dreams were a huge part of what they did, like dreaming and dream work and lucid dreaming and dream walking each other

Go ahead, he was saying, Oh, I said they would like get in your dreams. Is that what that means?

Oh?

Yeah, that was a whole That was a whole other thing. And I mean, look, i am a full time professional witch and I've experienced some weird shit, but I'm also a skeptic. Like it's a weird line to draw, but I've kind of got Scully one shoulder and Molder on the other, you know. But there were some things that I can't really explain. There was some dream experiences. I've always been a lucid dreamer. I've always been a very

Wow, that sounds pretty wild.

Yeah, I was piggyback on next tape, and I was curious too when you mentioned earlier Julia about the Lilith, the original vampire. So Michael Quina's wife, Lilith, when they first started the temple A set, she starts this thing called I'm not sure if you're familiar with this list.

The vampire order or the order of the Vampire. Yeah. Yeah, so there's some sort of.

Mashed together of the Lima, like you were saying, and in some sort of vampire business.

Oh my god.

And it's like you see that a lot. I think, pardon me, I'm getting sloking over this cold. You see

Well, I have a little thing to sort of piggy back off JJ. Is that there is I don't know if you're familiar with it's lust, but there is an order.

It's called vampire Buddhism for vampires.

Excuse me, oh, I don't know.

He So it's very larpaye and like a lot of of the we'll say, very online Buddhists, especially on Twitter, we all laugh at it. But there is something that you're you're right about, because we do talk a lot about like things like the Carnel Ground, and we have vampires and obviously like the kind of Babylon figure like the Dikinis, the Red Girls, a scarlet woman that's very prominent in Buddhism. So and they are sometimes considered vampires.

This is very interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's and I think, you know, you bring up a really great point there too, because they're in the in the tradition of witchcraft that I now practice. Let's enter it from that, I practice like a kind of hybrid tread craft, like traditional witchcraft blended with sort of folk Catholicism, that sort of where my practice pulls. But in traditional witchcraft and in folkloric witchcraft, I mean

Absolutely. I mean this is something that I Nick knows.

I'm really fascinated by this idea of like parafiction and metafiction, like looking at the exactly like what you said, like Crowley's writing, it'ssel full of fiction, but the people can't really distinguish it. So there's a point where it doesn't even matter because it is kind of real.

It is real if you believe it.

Mm hmmmmmm mm hm.

So you did mention, Oh you said the lima was like definitely, was that like more of a bigger thing that really.

Like on the forum, not not explicitly they were putting ideas out there that were, you know, Belama adjacent, I would say, but they were mishmashing a lot of different spiritual concepts. There was just a real there seemed to be for them, like for these ban Bio moderators, a real fascination and definitely a level of knowledge about topics that definitely far exceeded what most of us are. What, like the average you on the street wouldn't know.

Did you have any members on there that had like sigils that they've made of themselves, like as their logo and stuff like that.

I can't remember that off the top of my head, but I'm sure we did. I mean, sigil magic. It did become yeah, it did become a yeah. And because I think I know where you're going with I think I know where you're going with that. Maybe I don't recall it, but it wouldn't surprise me. And I think if I'm right about where you're going with that, I think the concept is the same. I mean, I think I've seen people in the chat saying, you know, energy vampires.

Well did you.

I was just going to say, did you have any other supernatural experience while you were a part of that cole other than like the dreams and stuff?

Most of what I directly experienced was stuff that took place in like a a dream or dream adjacent space. So and for that reason, you know, again, it's hard for me because I'm pretty pragmatic and skeptical, but I'm also somebody who like lives in this world and does this for a living, so I in my brain, I hold two realities to be true at once. One the brain is weird, and when we're asleep or hop asleep,

Where's my It's like a mindfucker, I can see that.

Yeah right, yeah, so.

I can going to bed that night and I'm like, you know, kind of talking in my head to one of these vampire moderators that I had a rapport with, and mentally, I'm just like listen, motherfucker, Like this has gone on long enough. We we have been talking back and forth for so long, and you've been playing these mind games with me, and you've been sending me these little dreams like show up, show up, motherfucker. I'm I

But at the time, like you didn't say anything about it.

I think I had. I might have had a conversation with him about it, but it was it was one of those things too where you never wanted to like, you never wanted them to think that you were going crazy, because if they thought you were going crazy and you were like getting in way over your head, you were also going to get the boot, like if you were too crazy. So you had to kind of play it gingerly.

Know, right, he's basically saying like like cryptic shit like nice Pj's last night, or right right, I hear you.

Say you're sleep bitch like whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just have to say, for me, if I experienced something like that, whether it was related to the form or not, I would perceive that it was, and also it would make me feel like it was more real than ever. I don't know, you know, because you were awfully young when you were involved with this, and I know how I was at that age, and I feel like that would have been proof to me that these are this is like real

Did they try and like encourage you to have because in the other interview I did, he spoke a lot about dreams but also dream sexually connecting, and I would assume, I mean, like, if they're in this group and they're trying to harness energy, that's.

Like a really good way to do it.

That aspect.

Sorry, et in the room. Yeah, yes, it was. Again, it was one of those weird things where that was a topic that was definitely broached. It was also because it was also like still in a weird sense role play, Like it was still you know, these these people are these characters, and even though we really believe that they are these characters. We had a chat room, you know, a group chat room, and people would go in and

Every cult's a sex cult.

It's inevitable.

Yeah, I mean, fourteen was the age right for Joseph too, so I mean, but really, honestly, if they're practicing a cult magic, then they're they're going to know that, you know, especially if it's virginal hate to be weird.

That's some powerful magic, you know what.

I seen year old vamp sex.

Right right, That's that's the that's the business that's going to make you young forever in one way or another, more imprisoned forever, you know if it we're twenty twenty five, right, Yeah.

Well that's why I had wanted to do it. I wanted to bring it up because I thought I could have been part of you know, like JJ was even trying to this before, like what's what's their means? What are they getting out of this? I was wondering if there was some sort of yeah, if there was even just a hate saying it's just like LARPers, who are even just trying to get some online ass, you know, because.

Yeah, send me a picture because.

I'm thinking you're already.

Yeah.

We've been talking about vampire cult here on the cult rejects across the United States, Mexico and now some Australia stuff. So is this the question we ask every other time is what's the is this like Australian mk ultro situations connected to this.

Because that's what it seems like with the American Mexican versions.

That is true. I forgot that we have covered those vampire.

We talked a lot of vampire stuff somewhat unrelated.

He played a vampire, but he then finds that money to finance the sex cult stuff.

Yeah, I mean everybody in this group. I was one of the only Australian people, so everybody else was the US base. Even kulture thing is interesting. I mean, I don't really believe this I will have yet, but like in my in my decade plus to like ruminate on all the experiences and just let my galaxy brain like ponder possibilities. There have been moments where I've been like this psyop, like was this some sort of like government

You know.

But I think you're on the right track because I think they set up these forums and stuff. Not saying anything about you because obviously you're a lovely person. Oh no, of course, I think you look for levels of psychopathy and people. I think the QAnon thing should prove that to everyone. They weaponize these forums, They get into people's heads,

I think you hit the name.

I think they just want to study these study human behavior.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you put brought up the QAnon thing though. That's why I have a one of my best friends is a just got her PhD. And she's working in a research capacity, or was until very recently for reasons. But she's working on research to do with online extremism and you know how groups online can become a little dangerous for various reasons. She's been reading school shooter manifestos for the best better part of five years, and she's

That, and I was gonna say there was like varying degrees of it. There's somebody who's been in our chat the last couple of minutes. His name is Drew, and I actually did a show with him before and we talked about the Hoover Dam and there was a guy who got obsessed with QAnon and he got in his car and drove it to the Hoover Dam and was going to try to blow it up or something like that. I mean, it's it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. People get obsessed with these things. But I have to say, though,

On yourn if you took someone out of your top five. Yeah, that's a little better.

Yes. I mean I was so into my Space when it first came out, and I didn't catfish. The movie had not come out yet, and there were several times I was catfished. And when I look back on it, these profiles, they'd have like five pictures and they were all like, you know, like supermodel edited, like hot emo guys, because that was like my generation was like emo guys. And they all had on like Sleeping with Sirens t shirts and they just were like the perfect Like, oh

Was harder to even like even if you had thought to yourself this, like, you know, xx my wrist slit. XX boy looks a little sketchy. I don't know if he's real or not. Like, even if that had crossed your mind, the tools to sleuth it out were not there. No, it wasn't like it is now. You have like you know, your little AI Facebook up sites where you can upload someone's picture and be like, exactly where else on the Internet this person has been, you know, yeah.

Like a Google image search of that person's profile pick and then they turn up to be like somebody else. I mean that's how that catfish lady got away with it for so long, because she would take like pictures from Google or other people's facebooks and like upload them and dude, she had a whole network worked out. But social media and these forums and stuff and themselves, I think we're very They were created by design, obviously for some type of outcome, and I think that they've been

Something I wanted to ask, and I actually mean this seriously. I'm just trying to get an that's what's going on here? Or how far does this go besides vampires in this thing? Did they entertain other things that were maybe like you know, fairies and gnomes or like, I'm being serious, but no, I take.

It in real life? Who think gnomes are real?

Yeah?

No, no, no, but I'm just you know what I'm saying.

It's fine, Yeah, no, not really. I mean I think that there was some We definitely had like a paranormal board on the forum. I mean for anyone who's listening, and you guys will will know, but for anyone who's listening is like forums boards, but you know, like you had your main forum, but then you had your sub boards kind of like in a discord stare for like different stuff. And there was definitely like a paranormal board where people would talk about ghosts were a big thing,

So it was like really just strictly I guess what I'm trying to get out was like there was in like other forums for other things that it was just strictly really that vampire.

Yeah, it was like vampires all day, every day, okay, or mostly all night because you know there's.

Yeah, Jin said something about a PDF of Buddhism for vampires. What is that?

Okay?

So he was a guy that the guy who runs it, he was a very famous Typhoni and OTO member, and he he did train I don't know how extensively.

He doesn't say that's usually how it goes, but he did.

He has some kind of initiation into some basic Vagoriana practices. So then he created like a whole system of psychic vampirism. He called it Buddhism for vampires because, as I said, we do discuss like very carnal ground.

Kinds of ideas.

So yeah, I mean there, but it is it is like Celestin Nick we're talking about.

It is typhony and oto.

But then it's also there are Vagriana things there are maybe like a kind of that like superficial I'm using the word in a more occultist way, but more of a Satanic.

You know, flavor.

But it's not it's not really like crazy Satanism. It's more just the aesthetic maybe like maybe a goth aesthetic.

So that's really what Buddhism for vampires is.

But even if you look at the logo for it, it is just the seven seven seven thing, like the telemus are.

That's all is. But they just they made they gave.

It like a Buddhist Flairsonian.

Mean, Jin will be better at explaining that than me, because I'm a I'm only a peripheral oh geo nowhere.

Well, I mean, I'm I'm honestly my background is more like you sluss in a way, because like I came from a left time path Catholicism kind of like I was really into grimoires and like you know, leftown path saints and all that stuff as everybody.

Already like Cyprian and stuff.

Yeah, like Cyprian, and there's other ones. There's like saying Lucy obviously, Saint Peter all those, Yeah, also left Time Path. So it depends, right, But uh so Typhony and at Well, I'm familiar with Kenneth Grant, so I'll explain it like this, Julia is Kenneth Grant. He basically wrote a series of parafictional books just like we were I mentioned before, or so his books are half fiction half oto material, but he takes it in a Lovecraftian way. Well, there's really

Magic, and how Aquino was so into it.

But then there's this other faction that is into Conan, the Barbarian and the Hyperborean stories. I do, so there was a kind of factional divide. I just find that very interesting. But basically he's talking about like abistle gods and the Mavre, and he calls it the Gray Lodge. I also have a thing called the Gray Lodge. It's not related, but it is interesting that we both have

The faces, the aesthetic, it's all of it.

And so could you do that with anything?

Though?

Could you do that with like vampires and put them in there?

Yeah? Yes, Okay, that's what pass magicians magic.

I was just gonna say, chass magic with typhony and sex magic to the goddess.

That's another reason why I asked about the sigils as well. There I'm just saying a lot of chaos magicians and love sigils. So that's why I was asking if people are using some.

J of knowledge.

I love you.

That was an awesome awesome explanation. I've always been fascinated by the Tifoni and OTO. I mean, I love Lovecraft, and even though I have not now and will not ever join the OTO in any capacity for personal reasons,

They made a show about it, right, my am. I the only one who saw that. It was like HB. Love Craft Show.

County.

I didn't watch it, but I heard it was.

Oh yeah, I saw the first season, and it's everything you would expect it to be. But yeah, no, this stuff, this stuff really interests me because you know, I talk a lot about occultism and stuff like that, but I don't I don't know the ins and outs of it, like you know, Gin or even Celeste or Nick. I just I know that peripheral. If I want to know something about the process church, I'll ask you a j.

That I do know. There you go, I can tell I can help you with that that as well.

But one thing I did know about the Typhony and Oto is they have further offshoots.

There are these werewolf and vampire orders.

I believe interesting interesting.

One thing I want to I just want to deny any rumors that I'm associated with any of this. I really come from it from a chaos magic perspective. That's really my interest, Julia, is that I like the lifting of frameworks like that. You can take just the magic framework and you can sort of apply ideas to it, but I take it all conceptual. So that's a true chaos magic. Maybe you could say true chaos magician. You

The ritualism interests me because I remember one time I was talking to Nick and he made me laugh my fucking ass off because he said he was doing something in his bedroom with swinging some incense or doing something, and his wife walked in and was like, what are you doing? The Catholic rise. Yeah, literally, it's the Catholicism has a lot of that ritualism in it. It just it interests me about that.

So one thing I did want to mention about the Typhonian order. If you're like into like the Limaic magic or even Golden Down or a lot of like I would even assume maybe even the temple is set I don't you know stuff like that. At least with Alma, you're going to be practicing like the Hexagram ritual, in the Pentagram ritual probably for a long time. You know, that's gonna be like, you know, something that you were

That makes sense, Like newbies.

Yeah, are people who don't actually know what magic.

Didn't want?

Doesn't it take a while to really understand what it is, because I mean there's so many Actually I have a question for youse list and you're the first witch I've ever met, so don't judge me. I did being a part of this cult? Did it lead you into those interests?

Like?

Did it lead you found the thought of like I want to do witchery stuff, you know.

Not really. I have a weird like story with how that part of my life like kicked off, And it sounds like very cringe almost to tell it, but like literally, when I was like six and seven years old, I was like pretending to be a fortune teller, like in my like little like hut in the garden, and like I was just always extremely drawn to that stuff, reading a lot of like kids books, but reading books about witches and stuff when I was like very little. So

Gonna see, I wonder did those two things kind of like ran together, Like maybe the interest in the cult kind of fueled your other interests.

It definitely few it definitely like fueled it to some degree. It existed beforehand, but it definitely kind of it introduced me to a lot of occult topics that I probably wouldn't have found otherwise until much later, stuff like to Betan Buddhism and the mysticism into Betan Buddhism. I mean, I wouldn't probably have encountered that on my own until much much later if I hadn't been in the cult. So it springboarded me into more serious occultism at like

And you do it professionally, you said, for like the last seven or eight years.

Yeah. So I have done like magic and psychic stuff for work since I was about nineteen, but very like part time. I sat it as an online psychic as a part time job when I was about nineteen, from a psych called Cassamba, which still exists. I do not work for them anymore because they would not pay me enough. But I did that, you know, as a side hustle all through college, and you know, continued to do such

So yeah, I had no shit, you know.

I was not a fan of that. So after a little while out there, I got a job at some of the little stores in the French Quarter, just reading cards and stuff, and worked for a while at the Vampire Boutique in the French Quarter, which is another interesting kind of like intersection of vampires coming back into the story.

Time with people face.

So I was already kind of almost wishing I hadn't signed this lease because I was like, oh God, am I going to do this for sixty hours a week for like the rest of my life, just go down to the French Quarter and have to find parking and deal with people? Oh uh? And then yeah, the lockdown's happened. I was very lucky. The person I was renting from said that it was cool, we would just cancel the lease,

What is spell What's spell work?

Pretty much what it sounds like? So you know, if you're if you're a magical practitioner or an occultist, you know, uh, they're going to people are going to call it different things depending on what they practice and what their path is. More ceremonial magicians are probably going to call it rituals rather than spell work, which sounds kind of like shinzy. You know, we can do a little spell work with

Yeah.

Interesting, that's so interesting. Have you ever had anybody be like, I want this person dead or do something bad to this Yeah, I'm not serious that. Oh, yeah, it happens.

What's the curse environment situation here? For example? What's your opinion of haunted dolls curses?

Oh, I think haunted dolls exist, but I have a I guess a quirky opinion on haunted dolls I think exists. I don't know if anyone here has read the work of Oh my god, what is her name? I'm going to forget now. She wrote the Exorcists Handbook. Her name is Josephine something, but I'm now McCarthy like real stuff. Yeah, Josephine McCarthy isn' occultist from the UK. She's fascinating lady, and she really knows her shit. And she worked as a as a straight up exorcist, not in the Catholic tradition.

Why does that give me the fucking creeps?

Oh my god, I was hoping you're gonna say that they don't exist, That's what I was hoping.

I'm sorry. No, I think I've never met one personally, but I do think they're real.

Like Annabelle, I've met a doll?

Really?

You did?

Ye?

Oh?

Yeah?

Is that that's Chucky West?

Yeah, down down in the Key West, in Key West.

I've seen him too.

Yeah, they're they're dangerous folks down there. You don't put a hanted doll in a civil war for it, or some historian buff such as myself might stumble across it. No bad photograph. We didn't get cursed for about ten or twelve years, did you really? Yeah?

Ye can happen. I do, And I think you know, yeah, depending on your worldview, right, spirits are everywhere. You know, They're not They're not special and only hiding and these like very specific areas fing you up. Spirits are all over the place. I last night, so I lived with another occultist. My my roommate is for more Mormon now an occultist. Lovely guy.

Oh so transition from one transition.

To he's amazing. But I was. When I came out of my room last night into the kitchen, I was just going to get water or something, and he's in the kitchen also when he pulls me aside and he was like, I just need to tell you that. When I was coming in here earlier, I glanced into the living room and I thought I saw you sitting in a chair with your hand, with your hands over your eyes. And then I looked again and realized it wasn't you. I just think you should know. And I said, yeah, okay,

Out, She cut out.

Yeah, yeah, she did say that she was having a bad weather there so that this might have happened.

It's the magic, the spirit, it's.

The water bathtub portal sucked her back in because I'm not kidding the spirit's.

I wanted to ask more questions about Joseph McCarthy another.

Question, Come yeah, JJ, are you really cursed?

Yeah?

And nick I wrote him a letter a couple couple of months ago. Robert the Doll, that is, wrote him a letter. Let me tell you, Julie, I can feel I can fill a long, long discussion. In the last twelve or so years, have been cursed by that damn Robert the Doll.

They were talking about him on the Rejects last year.

I'm out I'm out, I'm leaving this place. I'm not even going to one near this thing, and you're talking.

What you do to it? You had to make it mad, did you?

I took a photograph with it without asking him.

Apparently you got to ask him first, And at the time, I was like, Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm not I'm going to ask this a stupid doll. I can take a photograph.

I hear what well, looking now, JJ looking out.

Like this thing might be onto something here. I might be cursed.

Before you took the picture, but.

I'm not gonna lie to you.

So like every year around it, like December first, about every year, I'd start considering. After about year five or so, I'd start considering, damn it, did that doll curse me?

You know?

And then around the year twelve, I was like, I'm gonna finally write that doll letter and say I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, I hope.

But imagine how that went.

I don't think, well, I hope it hasn't gone well since then. I'm gonna be honest with you.

It's uh, you're gonna have to go back there, Yeah, face to face apology.

We need to find the current Darrow who can deal with it for you, like in person.

That's what's up.

Then you need to go to like the doll and you have to like give him like a seven day.

Candle or something the homage it. Yeah, I'm still.

Writ in the Chamber of Commerce to tell them they're irresponsible for putting a haunted Kerstell out in public like that flagrantly.

You need an exorcism, you need like you need, like the power of Christ compels you like that.

I think we should have Jonathan do it. From the cults. Let him know, Lord have mercy.

Jim though, you need to get tied down, prayed with p sue it, do all of it.

You have to get naked because half the time they get naked, they rip their clothes off, you know.

Oh sure, yeah, piss and ship everywhere or else desertate.

I'm not sure what this is, but I'm not the first person to be cursed by Robert the Doll. The whole room that he sits in down there at this old Civil War fort where he's they've been into a museum of Robert for some reason. It sits on a mound by the.

Way to curse people. By the way, to curse.

Exactly, exactly intentionally. There's flagrant irresponsibles. They put him what's that?

They put him on a mound, the.

Well, the Civil War fort was built on top of a mound. He's inside the Civil Wars.

Ah, she's back.

Oh gosh, your bag.

God damn it.

I had at least three more.

We were talking about ghosts while you were gone to but I definitely say it's because you left the water in the tub and that's a portal and you might have you know.

You know one thing I summoned it?

Can you hear c.

Lest I can hear you? Can you hear me?

Yes?

Yes, you sound great?

Okay, sorry about that.

That was weird.

Don't talk shit about gross. I guess this lady was pissed at me and she was like, let's shut the whole shit down, like stop saying words about me.

Denied. One thing I did want to ask you about. Uh you mentioned josephin McCarthy. Did you know about her her magical Order?

I heard about it. I don't know a ton about it, but I did hear about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually, uh you know, I do you know I've talked about before. I think I've even mentioned it once or twice. But you know, I have talked about tons of times that I was in the OTO and I had stopped going for a bit before COVID happened, and then I started joining in on the zoom things. And when I had stopped going for probably about like sixty eight months, I was actually using that system instead. Oh really, So when you said that was.

Like, oh, did you find it? You found it to be a good workable system.

I think. So it's a little bit more personal. You're not really from what I as far as I got, you're not really working with It's hard to explain like Pantheon's like gods. It's actually just very personal stuff. So that's interesting. I mean, you are doing ritual work, but it's not like I don't remember it wasn't It's it's different. It's definitely different.

Yeah. I like her approach a lot. I think she's a fascinating person. And if you know, if I'm sure you have, but if if anyone ever listens to her talk, you know, on podcasts or whatever, she's just a wonderful breath of fresh air in the occult world because she's a you know, a slight not older woman, but she's you know, I think in her fifties, I believe, and she's got this like strong Northern England accent. She's just like very mad. She's very matter of fact.

She's like shoots from the hip.

Oh you know, yeah, you know, yeah, well you know.

One thing she did say kind of actually helped nudge me out of the OTO in a sense too. Uh. And it's not that like I'm promoting her stuff because again I used, you know, very did very little. She even says to go through the whole course expect I think seventeenth to twenty years. So obviously I didn't do much. But uh, she the way she had put it, and it really dawned on me, like really good when she

That's really profound out.

Yeah, when I heard that, I was like, that's interesting, I said, because I could see what you know, how you because there's there is a specific idea with the O T or other orders. They have their own pantheons and their own like ideas are almost religious text.

Right.

Does this lady do distant exorcisms? Because I think JJ needs one.

I think she's retired now. Unfortunately, I think I wrote.

About you, Celeste. Do you do any distant exorcisms?

Most of the magic I do for clients is distance. So yeah, you know.

Robert some Robert the Dall Exorcist. You know, you know some some players can help me out.

I feel like we could. I feel like we could figure something out. Robert the still bothering you all these years later.

You wouldn't believe, You wouldn't believe the tales if I told.

You he would he's being totally serious, Nick, Nick heard of a portion of what I've gone through over the last twelve I.

Was even gonna say, just in the time that I've known him, I could probably say he's probably.

Your curse.

He needs to.

Yeah, I got to hook him up with that Saint Cyprian stuff.

So yeah, there you go. On the case, we'll do it.

So I have a question for a celest I mean, obviously I don't I don't deal in any of this stuff, but in your opinion, you know, magic is real, magic works, but not everybody knows what they're doing.

Oh yeah, yep, that's okay.

Well, yeah, certain magic like we've talked about before, solomonic magic and stuff you got. You can't be messing around like you will, yeah, talk about.

Because because it's very because it is very real, and I think, like obviously everybody's going to have their own take on that and their own experiences. And like I said, my my own partner is extremely suppor sort of what I do and interested and wants to hear about it. But like he has such a I don't want to call it a black and white worldview because that's not fair, but it is such a pragmatic worldview that what interests

Johnny says that numbers are God's language.

So exactly exactly, so you know, my partner and we meet in the middle because he is, whether he wants to admit it or not, a very mystical person. He's just coming at it from this different angle. But all of this to say the question of like, is magic real? I mean, it's very real to me. And I've seen things happen because of magic and as a result of

It doesn't sound like a fun time to me. I mean, were you are scared getting into this?

Yeah, I've been scared so much.

Oh my god, Oh thank you for being honest. By the way.

Yeah, no, I think it's important to talk about. I will say when I first got, you know, involved with magic and witchcraft, I wasn't scared at all. But then early twenty twenty, after I had been doing this already for like a long time, I had my ass handed to me in a way that was terrifying to the point where like, after I came through that experience, I was like this close to throwing out all my shit, getting rid of all my books and being like that's it for me, because that got a little too real.

I think that you're smarter now because I will say this, I'm a nurse as well, like a registered nurse, and the most scary thing we ever see as a nurse that thinks she knows everything right, and like you're you're a better nurse if you don't really know everything and you're willing to ask for help.

So yeah, absolutely, you were like you were like having scary like like demons or ghosts or I had.

An experience with a spirit and I had been you know, I don't know, I don't know if it's close to what JJ has has been through. But I was having some experiences that there was just a little bit too many bad things clustering in a short space of time. And you know, I'm again very much a skeptic. I'm like, Okay, bad things happen, you know, sometimes you're just gonna have bad day. Your car is going to break down, a family member is going to get hurt, like it just

Please please live stream it. Oh, I want to be a part of it. I will sit out too.

I probably I don't want to go anywhere near that.

Damn, a ghost just turned off my entire ass computer set up. I probably shouldn't be so ballsy like, yeah, let's go, let's take down Robert. But anyway, what happened was at that point I asked friends for their thoughts. This is something that I will say if anyone is a practitioner or they want to be a practitioner, get yourself a tight group of occultist friends that you trust, who you can turn to if you're having an experience, whether it's a dream or weird stuff happening in your life,

To say, well, is in solomonic magic you are trying to trap a demon into a specific.

Yeah, you're trying to bind bind the spirit. And so we used this right or I use this right to do it. He told me all the steps to do. I got everything ready and the ritual involved. You know, it used planetary hours. If anyone watching or I'm sure somebody y'all on the call have done it. But if you're using like planetary magic, it's very specific timing wise. You've got to be up at a certain time down to the minute to call on certain energies and certain spirits.

I was showing like stoic knew it, and I I was oscillating between like the bathtub and the toilet and then trying to get like because I had to do shit on the hour every hour for this ritual.

And I remember messaging with my friend and being like, I think I'm dying, Like I am in so much pain, can I can't stop shitting? Like what I had finish this ritual and he was like, well, yeah, the spirit doesn't want to go and it's pissed at you. And I was like, fantastic, Well I might have to go to a hospital, Like what do you recommend I do here? And he was like, you just got to get it done.

You say, you know, if I don't finish this, we're gonna have locknest monster in the bathtub.

Listen, We're gonna have.

Worse problems than me shitting my pants if you don't go back to bed and shut.

Up and shooting your pants is definitely a fucking problem. It's a problem. I'm in there, yeah, crying out the ass like that. It's not it's not no.

Serious, I know it happens.

I do not recommend the colonoscopy by spirit. It's like not.

As Yeah, it's like air.

But I'm done, right, So I finished colonoscopy.

Go to colonoscopy will be the title of autobiography. My god. So but I did it. I finished it. It got done. I think it took. It was about a twelve hour process, like on the hour, every hour. I somehow managed to like force myself through it. And at the end of that process, like literally the moment I finished that last chant and I sealed this jar and it was all done fine physically fine wow, And I put it out

Oh and the energy, I mean, even if they don't mean to, they're going to suck some suck some blood, right if we want to go vampiric.

Yep. And that's why that was my very hard one lesson of here's how we have good spiritual boundaries and good spiritual cleanliness. But yeah, I very nearly threw in the towel at that point.

So you live in New Orleans obviously, Okay, Yeah, I mean I feel like I've been there a few times. I just feel like it's a haunted place to live. Oh yeah, to be honest with you, I mean you're saying like something could have happened in that place before you moved in, or something like that. I'll a lot of the places, like even driving by them, I would be like, gosh, this just gives me the he begbis like it's a haunted kind of creepy dark place.

There's there's a lot of energy here. I think I mean the place that I live in. I'm not down like in the French Quarter or anything, because your girl does not make that kind of psychic money. I'm not angry yet, so I'm not you know, like I'm not raking it in. But you know, I live in a house on the outskirts of Orleans Paris, so I'm still

Mean Hurricane to Trina stuff about to say the like, I mean, yeah, even if you don't live right in the quarter, I just I feel like with all that energy that even came through with that is kind of wild. But patty and angry. It's funny you mentioned her. I don't know if anybody else knows who that is, but that's the one they always get on ghost adventures. Do you know who I'm talking about? It's this, It's the one lady they're always consulting.

On ghost adventures.

When they call in a psychic, that's that's who she's talking about.

And I don't know that she's extremely wealthy. I just assume that she is.

She is too, Yeah, they're always calling her in, and I almost don't feel like she's very good on the episodes. It's like she walks in there and she just says some real vague generalities, and it's like, why didn't you freaking hire me to do that? I go in there and tell you more than she get.

Not.

I'm not sure.

No, I mean, I think celebrity celebrity psychics and celebrity occultists are their whole own thing, you know. And I mean, God, I don't want my have to get me into trouble this evening, so let's not it's not. But yeah, I mean that's the other thing I think. Any it's not that they aren't legit people who become public figures and do things. But I think the nature of media also is that the legit stuff doesn't really sell.

Like I know, you know, Yeah, there's magicians that have rabbits and hats, and then there's magicians yeah and they both yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody said something about glittering generalities. One of my favorite logical fallacies. Well, it's like they get in there and she's like, oh my next burning you know, she'll like scratch it real quick. Oh look at this scratch on my neck. Come on, Pattie, did you have a mother?

Did you have a mother? I think you had a mother.

Right, somebody in your family was a smoker.

It's like, yeah, okay, yeah, all of a masshole, narrow it down something like that. Yes, I feel like someone you know, mother, father, grandmother, maybe Caucasianian. How would you guess? I'm not obviously celest I'm not making fun of me.

No, No, I don't feel that way at all. I just similar similar feelings.

Yes, I have a friend. Actually, her name's Whitney. You guys may know her, Whitney Fox. Uh, she's the she's the real deal. She's a really cool lady. And uh yeah, I just I feel like people who actually have a talent for it, they're not they're not on ghost adventures, they're.

Not you know, So.

No, I agree. I mean, I think it's also possible that some of these people who become like big media figures, not to single out Patty, but folks in that in that Wheelhouse. I think sometimes, you know, maybe there is a legitimate skill and a talent and a gift there, but once you have to do it once a week on television with with fucking I don't even know who who is on Ghost Adventures at zach Bag and whoever. It is like you know, some like backwards baseball cap looking ass go toe guy being.

Like the Ghost House.

You know, did you hear that?

Did you hear that?

Yeah? It must It probably creates a need to just like play the role and not worry about really like tapping in on a deeper level.

Well, I'll say one there's one show that is like that that I will say to this day. I'm a huge fan and I love it so much, and I'll follow this girl on Instagram? Is that the Dead Files girl?

You know I mentioned her before? She said you got to bring Amy Allen instead you did mention her?

Dude, she got she gets me every time.

Faire dude worth it in my opinion.

Oh yeah, no, that's one. And I feel like they're the guy that she works with on The Dead Files. Nick, weren't you going to talk to him or something?

Or was trying past? Yeah, I was trying to because he was he was retired, I think, a detective of New York. But I never never got a response.

Well he I can only imagine you two talking to each other with your big New York accents. But yeah, no, she's she fascinates me, but you so do youse, Celeste. I'm not gonna lie. I kind of would like to have you on my show and ask you all kinds of which craft three questions.

Oh yeah, I'm down. I'm down. I haven't done a podcast in forever. And then I feel like in this last week, everybody's like, do you want to.

Be on a podcast?

I'm like, yeah, it's funny. Is another podcaster that I'm friends with literally him up and they're like, you have been trying to get her on for a while.

Oh I think I know because I kind of went like self mode for the past, like gear and I really wasn't I wasn't even really updating my Instagram. It was just like mostly strictly business stuff, not putting out a bunch of other content. I was really burned out from just the content mill and the constant demands of the Internet. And then I went and decided to make a stupid TikTok and here we are now.

TikTok every time.

That's well the good timing. Jen has a question, Yeah, go for it, Jen.

Okay, So thank you very much, Hidi and Nick.

So I have one comment, one question, and obviously I said I would deticase Heidi in the chat, so I will do that. So celest you were talking about how your partner is very analytical, so of course Nick knows I love Kabala. So I'll just bring up a little this is kind of a boy magic what you're talking about. It's very hard, it's very you know, it's very hermetic, like you're very like in the clear blue lightning, you could say.

So that's that is like you're saying, he is kind of a mystic.

Yeah he is.

He's tuned into the numbers. But it's just boy magic because that's how he looks at it.

Hard data.

Women are more they they are less dense. I've said this many times on a show, but they have a they're less dense than men. So they you guys need a little more finesse, a little more care. That's why the rituals, that's why the all the spiritual technologies. Men just kind of like need the know how and then we can kind of get there. Women kind of have

It's just how you prepare yourself.

But I thought that was really interesting because I think you're tapped into like he is a mystic.

And I know a lot of people like this.

They would not consider themselves occultists or mystics, but they have like a very keen analytic call i and analytical knowledge.

Lisa is very much like this.

I'm not saying she's like a dude at all, but she just it's a very if you have like a science that kind of brain, I think you're you are able to do it if you are open minded. And then my question was did Vampire the Masquerade the White Wolf game? Was that like really old fashioned by the time you were kind of in the scene or what did did you see it play kind of a role in how people, you know, like the.

Vampire balls and all of that, like, yeah, familiar with that a little bit?

Yeah, No, I think I mean, I think you know White Wolf games, whether it's tabletop or LARPing are gonna that's a that's eternally popular, you know. I mean, I'm in a I'm in a VTM game right now. We haven't met for ages. We meet on zoom. But I am a big fan of White Wolf. I love role playing, mostly tabletop. I'm not big on warping. Surprisingly, I don't like people in real life, you know, to keep me

Well that's really interesting.

So us because Nicholas to Beer, I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, Yeah, and like the I think his thing is the Temple of Blood in the Order of the Dragon, and like everyone knows he's like really sick though, and like that whole group is quite weird and very extreme. But they they talk about like these very ideas that you're talking about, Like they think they are.

Actually like immortal vampires, and they do feed people their blood unwittingly.

So I just think that that's very fascinating that they're borrowing this kind of very extreme you know, luciferian ish.

I'm not sure on their whole ideology, but yeah, very interesting.

Blood.

Yeah, they give people their.

Own blood unwittingly in food and drinks, and they say it's to improve because they think they're like pure bloodline. Like that's Nicholas Severer's like whole thing. He thinks he's like the Gray Arian. I don't know, he thinks he's like good, Like he just thinks he's like pure descendant or whatever.

And so it's interesting because I've seen that in the plot line of a film recently called The Golden Child.

Were you like Eddie Murphy.

Review that.

Was like the Oatmeal or whatever that was love that show.

It's in the oat meal. It's in the oatmeal. Hey, but I was going to see it reminds me of of mid Midnight Mass as well.

That was from the Great Brotherhood of the North.

This is all very ancient uh magic, so all of that, all of these things, yeah, but all that one.

You co join us, Julia, for sure.

Send me the link. I love The Golden Child. I made Colby watch it the other day.

Just watched it too. That's that's good.

Yeah, I recently just watched it. I think the funniest part is when they go to like the uh to talk to the dry Lady and he's like, this is good to keep the yang up, and he's like, nothing wrong.

With my yang.

Anyways. Anyways, I did I did want to say I played Magic the Gathering when I was a youngster and the Great Game. Do you like that one?

I'm not good at it because I can't math, but people, you know.

I was going to say, though, you know, I started playing it when I was around like sixteen or seventeen or something like that, and I used to go to like the conventions or whatever and play against other the tournaments and stuff. If somebody would have started a Magic the Gathering cult when I was at eight, I would have joined it. I mean, I think that's.

Like I want to join a cult.

I would do it just.

Because, okay, because I was young and impressionable. And also I'm working on a cult series right now. It's called to the CULTI Verse, and I want to join a cult just to see what it's all about. And then I'm going to report back the facts.

And I don't recommend that they don't like you when you do that.

It's pretty much like what I like that.

Nobody will have me anyways, JJ. Unless you start a colt, maybe you'll have me.

You'll get a roper money.

The Mormons will take you.

I don't want to pay.

You got to go down to Brazil and go to the what's that one that we keep talking about, JJ, that we got to cover one day?

Yeah, and the eye is Saturday.

That is some wild one. Yeah, yeah, some ship like that.

Joey.

You can sign a billion year contract with Scientology if you want to join a cult. It's only a billion years. I think that's going to only a billionaires.

I mean, it's going to be a no for me, dog. But the thing is, I would like to join like a cult temporarily, like a friend of your cold than that like just to go to a couple of crock pot lunches and then just you know, take some notes down and just you know investigated investiguis a little bit,

I was obsessed with it.

I was, indeed, man, that is magic.

Magic the Gathering is definitely there's definitely kala stick. Oh I think pel.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree, Jin. I think it gets a hold of your mind for sure, because I became completely obsessed with it. I had the video game, I met people in real life and played it. I mean I did, I did all of it. I mean, but the thing I grew out of it. But I feel like some of this stuff, like they set up these forums and stuff because a lot of people don't grow.

Out of this.

They they don't capture asking questions.

Yeah, yeah, it's to capture your attention.

Like for me, I was like, I'm more like identified with some of what Celestia was saying, because like I I'm Goth a little bit like not full.

But yeah, I was always adjacent to that subculture or whatever. I like magic.

I was never into vampires, but I do like magic, So I was always interested in i't call things. So it's always to draw your attention, like who, like, what consciousness are you going to capture with what story?

So I've read all the Anne Reichs books. I didn't mind them, but it wasn't it's not going to be something that I'm It wasn't the capture the thing that captured me. So you were captured by magic the gathering. Heidi was obviously born a Mormon. JJ obviously became a Mormon. Nick was captured by the Oto.

I'm not saying in a negative way, just we all everyone here kind of proves that the real American religion is actually a little weird, a little magicalal and like a lot of like what you think, individualistic in a way.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's very well said. Yeah, very well said.

Definitely, Yeah, a lot of aliens.

That is interesting that does show up on It's.

Aliens all the way down at the end of the day.

It's aliens and women.

It's ultra terrestrial women all the way down there.

Yeah. Uh go probably about another like ten minutes, if anybody else has any more questions. I know I meant typed in the chat. I wanted to wrap it up, like not yet.

I know everyone went quiet.

I know, yeah, because they're probably like, I'm long winded.

I didn't want to get started on something I couldn't stop.

Go ahead, Jenny, you got another question, Yeah, i'llsole us.

The question is what are some of your most Obviously you don't want to I understand if you don't want to get into personal details of like your clients, But what are some of the more interesting cases that you would be willing to like share that you've done magically or for people.

Yeah?

Yeah, so I think, like you know, my clients, I get a lot of repeat clients, which I think is not always common in this industry. But I do have a really wonderful client base of people who kind of keep coming back either and not you know, not like keep coming back like every week they're blowing me up, but you know, keep coming back for inside or readings.

But right right in the middle of the story, are we back.

Yes, yes, okay, yeah, oh man, all right, either he was going to win this boxing match or he was not. You know, it was gonna it was gonna work, or it wasn't. And she was going to be watching live my client, and it was like, oh fuck if I if I screw the pooch on this one, it's going to be real bad for business. So anyway, I hear about it later and she was like, well he lost the match. I was like, oh, dope, that's awesome. Few she was like yeah, and his bicep exploded like the muscle.

That's wild frozen again.

I had a question to.

Go, shoot, oh good, you froze again.

So I wasn't sure if you're there, you don't out, I don't know what's going on. I guess the spirit's like, that's enough of you, bitch, but go ahead, go ahead if you have a question.

Well, I was just gonna see, do you ever get scared if like doing ritualism like this, Like, does does anything negative come back on you or the person who requested it?

In my experience, neither U. And I think that's because like so, I'm not wicked, and only some schools of occultism really even believe in this idea of like, you know, rebound impact from a spell. You know, in the wick in religion, it's like, Okay, anything you're going to put out there, you get back on you three times, And

I have to agree with you on that because I've said several times, you know, when you watch a movie, you always expect for the good guy to win in the end against evil, but in real life it's not like that. It's usually the bad guy wins in the end,

Well, and it's also like if you guys is in the show The Good Place where they try and like figure out what the moral like tally sheet would even look like and how you would calculate that, Like I think, I do believe that there is some kind of like I mean, I believe in God. I think that God is real, But I don't think that human morality and human action can be reduced to this sort of like easy checks and balances. Yes, no bad, good kind of thing.

And now it's all remind me never to meet up with you and go bowling.

I just don't want that energy in my life.

Before worn. Don't don't ever take a picture of Robert the doll. He will curse you.

I'm not going to do it. I'm never going to do it.

I saw him, but I don't think. I don't think I took a picture. I think I was like, I'm gonna heed that morning.

Far more wiser than I.

I bet your I bet if you posted that picture, only got like ten likes on it too, and now you're cursed forever.

I know.

I don't really have any social media outside of my podcast. And this was probably twelve years ago. I'm not even sure what happened to the photo it was.

You didn't even get a single like on it? JJ wow.

And for what.

Memory card? You know what I mean, Like, I'm not certainly ever left the actual memory card of the camera.

That'siously Robert did all takes his privacy.

He's like, you don't have to print it, apparently you just have to have it on, you know, on a memory card. Apparently riding away in the back of a closet somewhere.

I'm sure, Hey, quick question something I heard that might be total bullshit. If you cut your hair on a full moon or something like, what are you You're only to cut your hair on certain days. I have a hair pointment coming up. This is per information.

Weaning Julia waning always on a waning.

Is one coming up?

Because I have a hair appointment.

Right now. I think it's I think it is wedding currently.

Actually, oh, thank god, I need a good haircut.

Yeah.

There you go saying it's been years since I've gotten a good haircut, and I feel like it's always because I get it cut at the wrong time. Somebody told me this last time. I said, every time I go, I get a shitty fucking haircut, and they said it's because you're only supposed to cut your hair on the waning moon. I didn't couldn't remember which one it was, but I just you know, if there's anything to that, I think I want to do it next time.

Yeah, that's that's old astrology.

Definitely, let us know how that goes.

You never on you never cut your hair on a dark moon, and usually what you do is you collect the hair and then you burn. If you want to be really old school, you collect the hair off like after they sweep it up. You don't want them take it any burning yourself.

See what happened with Nick cut his hair on a dark moon and never grow back.

So for the barbha and yeah, that's what's.

Well on this dark Yeah, this is so great. Thanks for letting me.

Questions.

Yes, oh yeah, before we wrap it up, I'll let everybody plug themselves again, Heidi, let everybody know what is up with your show. Please.

I am Heidi love of the Unfiltered Ice. I'm everywhere podcast are served. I do have my own website, Unfiltered Ice podcast dot com. Come check me out.

I'd love to see you and thank you everyone for the chat. Thank you celest.

And JJ Vance.

JJ Vance sus of Operation GCD not not the vice president when it comes back on the screen.

So that's great to meet you. It's a great conversation.

I will have to get to next your contact information from Nick to talk Robert, the doll Curse and whatnot. But thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and Jen, Heidi, Julie always great.

Nick appreciate the invite as always awesome.

Thank you very much, sir, and then we'll go with Cosmic Peach Julia. What is up.

Yeah, I'm everywhere and nowhere. I'm a ghost of podcasting. But if you want to work with me, the way you can do that is go to my Instagram page Cosmic dot Peach dot podcast. I have my link tree there. Send me an email if you want to be on my show or have me on your show. That that's the best way to contact me. Thanks again, Nick for having me on Celestial Lovely. I enjoyed our conversation and I learned a lot.

Thanks awesome, that's great. That's great. And Jin the Ninja please make sure you play yourselves since you were in here at the beginning.

Thank you so much. Nick, thank you, Heidi, thank you, JJ, Thank you Julia and Celesti. You are a great guest.

I just will say thank you and awesome, great show as we've all done lately, because I've obviously podcasted with all of you frequently in the last few months.

So thank you.

And I just did an episode with Heidi, and tomorrow I'm on with JJ and Nick and Julia and we're.

Doing Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday. Yes, I remember Wednesday and I won't be late. So I just dropped.

I'll be early, I'll be early. And I just dropped a three part series on my show on Ralph Bakshi. So we did Fire and Ice, American Pop and Wizards. So I did the Kabala, So I went, really, if you're into schizo Kabbala, looking at the colors, archetypes, talking about like maybe a little Telema, a little you know, like obviously I got into Kenneth Grant because it's impossible to discuss those films without it.

Yeah, so that just dropped on my feed. I have lots of episodes coming out.

I just dropped the episode I did with JJ on Big Trouble in Little China, which is my personally. I think it was a great episode. So yeah, that just dropped on my feed. So you can check me out.

Threshold Saints Twitter at wu Kanri born in ig At.

Threshold Saints and I were the Gray Lodge, so one of my spaces. We actually have a YouTube channel. Now I'm not running it. I have nothing to do with it, but one of the boys started us a YouTube channel so we can put our lives. We do these for the Friday Night gnastic mass. So we have been doing speculative narcissism. So yeah, so if you're interested check it out. Thanks guys, thank you.

And finally Celeste, Yes, thank you very much.

Yeah let me get let me get this out quick. My camera keeps freezing the internets over it. So yeah, you can find me. I have a website Celeste Mott m ott dot com. That's how you can book with me if you want to partake in my services. But I'm also on Instagram at Celeste Mott and TikTok at Celeste Moth with an h. Yeah, thank you so much. By the way, I've like got away from myself there. Thanks for letting me be on. This was a blast.

I had a really good time same listen.

Yeah, no, I have had a blast too. Uh, thank you everybody who joined. I really had a good time tonight. And thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up. There was a bunch of you in there, I guess from you know, old channels too. I really appreciate the comments and the you know, the questions and stuff and that. Uh yeah, and until the next one, everybody else you will

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