Baby, I'm a gangster too. It takes at a tangle. You don't mess with me. Mess with me, baby, I'm a GANGSTERA tou.
Ouch baby, you're a gangstatoo.
For good warnings, this podcast is designed to take you outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality. Listening discretion is a vibe the fellas.
This ain't my first time at the rodeos. M h.
M hmmm.
Hello and welcome back to the show. We are back for part two of the what was her name, Katy Couci? It was like a color uh pink puss. Teal Swan. Yep, we are back for the part two of Teal Swan. Lot more to talk about, a lot more to uncover with this but before we do that, I don't have any stories for you today, but I have a couple of shout outs. I got one message from Tracy. I won't say your last name just for privacy purposes, but Tracy, I got your message. She went through the link tree
like a good girl. That's how you're supposed to do it, so she said, I listened to your show religiously. I'm honored, thank you. I love your episodes on John Beney. I did stumble across a few TikTok videos about John Benne and Epstein. He had pictures of her in his apartment and one picture of Beney at a pageant and it had Maxwell in it. I thought you might want to look into it if you hadn't already listen. I'm sure
they were running train on her. They never would say who the elite type person was, who was at the White's family Christmas party that night? There was a nine to one one phone call placed. There was an elite guest at the White family Christmas party. It's never been disclosed to it is. There was a nine to one one call that night. And then that's the night I think she died. I think she died at the Christmas party.
And then they brought her body back home and called nine one one again in the morning from the Ramsey home to stage this cleanup job because they knew her dead body was down in the basement. They planted it there. Uh, from the night before, died at the Christmas party. Now I got another email, Let's see if I can find it. Was very interesting. It was about Steven Spielberg. Yes, it's
from the email. Is man in the mire? Eighty five sent me an email, really really detailed email here about like Stargate SG one and Steven Spielberg, a lot of really cool stuff. I just wanted to let you know I did get your email. Thank you so much for reaching out. I really appreciate it. I love here from you, guys. You're my friends, You're my best piece, and we can keep it real with each other. Don't be afraid to
send me email. Ghost dot peach at outlook dot com, send me email, hit me up, you know, bark up my tree. Love to hear from you, guys, even if I can't get back to you right away, or if I give you a shout out and respond to you via episode like this, Just know I love you and I see your messages coming through. Now that we're done with that part, we're gonna jump into part two of Teal Swan. I don't know how you guys are feeling so far with the first part, but damn a lot
of stuff being revealed. Here me share my shit. Sharon. Oh boy, here we go, Sharon. Sharon. Sharon had the sound.
Okay, okay, okay, he's getting off on it like by this point.
Uh oh, all right, people, if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's get let's get to go and hang out.
He had taken the knife and taken a huge slice of this guy's leg off of his thine muscle and was just chewing on it because he was cannabalistic as well, so he was chewing on this this rock.
Don't forget. We left off with a dead ass, fucking corpse ass, carved up dead body with a full hit. He had an erection on, a dead erection on, and she was made to have sex with the dead body in her keeper, her handler, whoever he is. This is what he's doing. He's having this little snack time, little dammer time, and a little slim jerky action going on. And anyways, that's where we left off. That's where we're picking at.
Oh he never cooked it, by the way. He was into raw stuff, so he would eat this piece of this raw leg. He was like enjoying it. You should have seen the look on his face. It was like he was for the first time feeling like this enthusiasm kind of And so he's in his enthusiasm bubble watching me do all this stuff, and my reality is breaking and it didn't feel good. It's not like, oh my god, this is awesome. This means that not everything he's told me is true. It's like, wait a minute, my whole
reality is falling down. If he's told me this and I didn't do it, what else has he told me?
That's a lie?
And that was the first time that I had ever conceptualized of the idea that I had a choice and.
That everything he said may not be true.
So he had dug this enormous pit so as to not start a forest fire, this huge pit in the ground, and we threw the body in there, and then burnt this body, which took forever. We were out there for a really long time, a lot of hours. He's in the same jovial mood, and I'm watching this body burn, and then he takes the big pieces afterwards.
And he'll like throw them.
You know, into the woods, and then the rest of the ashes he will gather and then give that back to the mortician.
And it's like, I couldn't.
I can't tell you how bad that feeling is when your whole reality turns out to be a sort of upside down. I was not celebrating. I can tell you that I was like I should kill myself. But it was this weird impulse that happened internally where I was like, and I wasn't really thinking about it, like I should just drive away. So I get down to the base of this trail after this whole scenario was over and my car was there. He had had somebody dreve it there. I got into the car and I drove and I
didn't go home. I drove like three hours to sell Lake City, where I had met a boy who actually still works with me today, which is why this is such a cool sort of turnaround. But I had met this boy t two times before this point, cause I had no friends. I'm really and for some reason, I just felt like I could trust this guy, and it
was the first time I ever felt that way. He was so innocent, I swear to God, it's like, if you'll know if you meet him, and I'll probably introduce him to you guys one day if you.
Want to meet him.
But he's like the most innocent, amazingly sweet person ever. And some pardon me, thought I can use this to my advantage. I didn't realize that I would end up like loving him as a person the way that I do. At that point, It was like a survival. Survival mode was I can this guy can hide me, Like I can use him right now because he's sweet, and.
Because I don't know where else to go. So I drove to his house. Nobody was there.
I broke in the window. He was living with two roommates going to college. And I went into the bathtub and I was like, Okay, I should just get in the car and drive back home.
No I can't, Yes I can't. No I can't, Yes I can't.
I didn't know any other way to cope, and so I was like I was feeling so guilty and so evil.
Basically, then I.
Defaulted to what I do from the Blood Covenant group, which was if you wanna find the light of Christ, just cut yourself bleed and you can feel that. They tell you that cause like the endorphit hit you get when you cut or you hurt yourself. They teach you that that is the light of Christ, that feeling that forgiveness. Basically, so I was like, Okay, I have to find that. And so I got a razor blade and I cut myself so bad I was bleeding all over the tiles.
He was like running down the bathroom drain and when when my Blake says, ning, when he got home, he that's what he walked up to, walks into his bathroom and is like a blood everywhere, and he's like, oh my god, you know, and typical, he doesn't call anybody. He just cleans me up, feeds me, puts me in dead and then he's like, well, just don't go home.
You just shouldn't go home. I'll just take care of you.
And it's like he didn't really know the full story of what was going on at that point, but I was planning on going home still.
I was just gonna go home whatever.
But it was like the more that I was watching him take care of me, make me breakfast, I was feeling that sort of love and I didn't want to go back. One day, it came two days, two days became three days, three days became four days, and then it was like, after a while, I really had this that full urge of like, I don't want to go back, and so it started turning into fear of going back, and then I just hid basically with.
Him, where's your keeper? Now?
I have no idea.
Do you fear?
Yeah? I would love to say no, I'd love to say I've transcended that.
No, I do.
I fear more than anything because I have a kid now. So that's really what's done me in I think.
But you're very public about yep, your story, cause there's.
Two ways to hide. See, at first I didn't take this route. At first, I hid time, I hid like crazy. I didn't tell anybody. I only got thrown into therapy because I literally got thrown into it by an ex boyfriend of mine who I was so like a typical abuse victim.
I didn't know that it wasn't okay to have sex with anyone.
And I was like so traumatized that and like thinking that everyone around me kept people in the basement and that was normal that basically it was so difficult to be in a relationship with me at that point that he gave me an ultimatum.
He's like, this is not normal. What you're telling me happened to you. Isn't okay. You need to go to therapy for that. I was like, no, no, I don't. I'm totally fine.
But I was so because I have of course been programmed to not be able to take care of myself. You'll notice that my pattern throughout my life has been get with a man, Get with a man, Get with a man. I don't even waste ten minutes between one relationship and the next, because my option of survival is that basically, have a guy taking care of me. I took that approach basically, so the idea of being on my own for any amount of time was more terrifying
than being in therapy. So he actually took me to the rape crisis center and he like it was a big scuffle actually because I was resisting him, and he actually in nann just took me and like threw me through the door. Now you can imagine how well that was received in the rip crisis center, which is full of super angry, like anti rapist people.
What the hell is it?
Oh?
Yeah, he was jump rising. So it's still kind of funny to this day that I'm thinking back on that.
But they like grabbed him, all of them and threw him up again. Said, well, they're sure that they're witnessing domestic abuse, right, He's.
Like, she needs to be here, you take her in the back right now.
So so the director of the rip crisis center takes me in the back of the room and is like why do you think he thinks you need to be here? And so I was like, well, I s and I started sort of telling her a little bit of stuff that went on with me, and I like, I watched her face sort of she was trying to be real professional, but I watched her face go from like interest to like white, and so she's like, this is I hope you understand that this is well beyond the capacity that
we have at this particular center. This is not what we deal with. But I know somebody who does deal with this. And it was like that was the first time, by the way, that I hadn't even conceptualized if the idea that what I went through wasn't normal and wasn't okay, and was maybe even really bad. Like if you're if you're used to starving to death in Africa, that's normal for you. Like if you're used to being part of these groups.
That's normal for you.
So it's only when I watch the reactions on people's faces that I realized that this is like some other stu some like another level. So I was like, wow, you know, she's acting like this is really bad stuff that I went through. Maybe I do need therapy and maybe it would be good if I could get some coping skills. So she she referred me actually to this woman who works in the town, who is a rape crisis or not a rape crisis. She's a trauma expert
in ritual abuse. That's kind of upsetting. I mean, like all of us need to stop here for a minute and realize, like if somebody can make their living and like honestly has to have patients referred to her. This is how over overflowed she is with clients. If that can be a specialty, does that tell you how many people in this particular area are suffering from this particular condition. So I ended up getting in with her, and to
say the least, it was like completely life changing. And it didn't it didn't feel good at first because it's like it took me three years in therapy to admit that maybe he didn't do this because he loved me. So it's not like in therapy we were digging through all these suppressed memories. What it is is that I was unwilling to admit that what he said wasn't true about his motive. And then it's like, you know a lot of people would like to say, oh, it probably
felt good to be in therapy. No is the worst thing in the world. Why because when you're going through a specific experiment or experience, it's like you're in survival mode and all those chemicals take over. And it's only in retrospect that things started getting as bad as they seem. You know, when you have to revisit drama is when
it gets the worst. That's when I had to admit it's really not that he was chasing you through the woods because he really loved you and wanted to make sure you could get away from people getting chased by a serial killer through the woods as a child. And it's like when you realize that and when you bite off that, you don't want to live, which is the reason that most of us as abuse victims. It's the reason I think that most of us buy into the ideas that were sold by these groups so much, just
because if you don't, you're gonna die. I mean, that's a survival strategy. If I if I tell you I'm doing this because I love you, you had better believe that because the alternative is so bad you can't live through it. So I had done that, and it was like I was letting go of the very thing which enabled me to survive that whole situation in admitting that it admitting the truth about what was really going on instead of thinking, no, really, it's all for my own good. So that was the
worst thing in the entire world. But I did start piecing my world back together again, and after about I think two or three years of therapy, I was allowed to go into group therapy where I got to meet
other women. And I will never forget the day that I first walked in and it was a group of I think like five or six women, and the one who was sitting right over to my left side when I walked through the door, both of us started crying because she and I had met each other at a at a Satanic mass, so we had both gotten out of the same scenario and meeting each other was just like it was so therapeutic, and it was like amazing to meet these women who had gone through the same
kind of stuff as me and I I developed like a serious attachment to them.
But I don't talk to them today.
Why Because I went public, I served the reality of my life and I wasn't planning on doing this, I might add, so I was going through therapy, and when I started talking about ritual child sacrifices and stuff like that, where it turns into murder, they legally have to tell someone. So basically I was put in an ultimatum scenario by my therapist who said, either I'm gonna tell the cops, or you'd have to tell the.
Cops because this is what we have to do. It's my job. And so I was like, all right, you know, I guess I'm gonna do it. Then, so she the.
Chief of police in the area that I grew up in. Now it's a it's a really enormous issue of a case basically because technically, unless the FBI has control of a case, each individual report has to be reported with the state that happened in. So if you've got a group like this that operates in multiple states, then it's like not one person, one organization. The government can't get
together and do all of it at once, right. So and then it's another issue too because they want exact dates and I'm it's like, you know, if I said to you, do you what's the worst memory you have from your childhood and like say that, it's say that It's like when some kid kicked you with a soccer ball or something, And I said, what exact day.
Did it happen on? Could you tell me that?
Most people couldn't, so they're they're expecting things of of me that I honestly can't do. I can tell you roughly what age I was based on reference points like what teacher I remember going to or you know, something like that, but the exact dates. Unless I know the exact date, which I do, sometimes it's difficult to report on. So basically, the chief of police came back and sat down with me and I for three hours. I recounted as much as I could remember dates for and things for,
and yeah, he looked about as draumatized as ever. After I ended up saying what I said, and he went back and this big case was opened, and I spent a while there. For a few I was getting crime victims reparation money, and I spent a while there like reporting to them.
They would film me while I.
Would talk about what had happened, specific incidents that they would want to know about, looking at mug shots, looking at missing pictures of children, things like that. And then they decided in the end that despite the amount of evidence that I had, which is actually a lot more than most people escape with in my scenario because of the time lapse and the fact that they're really good at covering their tracks. I had escaped with a pair
of jeans I was raped in. I had escaped with a human tooth that I took from a sacrifice, and I gave all this to them. So despite all of that and the scars which they did scar mapping on my body and everything, the case was handed over the district attorney. The district attorney gets to decide whether they have enough tangible evidence to prosecute. See, most people don't understand that hearsay is not enough reason to prosecute someone, and it's not even enough reason for a search warrant.
And it makes sense when you think about it, Like if you're my neighbor and I say you got bodies buried in the backyard.
I listen. Whatever point she's about to make right now, I'm sure it's a good one. But most of the time, district attorneys are not your friends. Okay, the people in the area who be a part of this shit cover it up and bury it. The district attorney for the John Benet case was a piece of shit, and then went on to work for John Rams. There's been many a district attorney. The district attorney in the Minton does brother's case. Okay, they are not your friend, and they're
probably probably involved with this stuff. Like she's got if this is real, Okay, this is true, she's got teeth, she's got shit, Okay, this ain't. No, Oh, my neighbor's got body's buried in the backyard like the burbs or some shit. No, she's got artifacts from the rituals that she can present. And yet well the district attorney, no, fuck that. Okay, the district attorney is probably in on it. But anyways, I could.
Do that just to piss you off, just to make
the cops come over to your house. So just one person saying something is not enough for that, as we saw with the recent case where there's like all the girls being kept in the backyard and the cops were sent to the house and they didn't even go in the backyard, so it wasn't Basically the district attorney made the executive decision to keep the case cold, where basically it's not like it's closed, it's open, but it's waiting for further evidence or waiting for further people to come forward.
Essentially, where is this case at I think.
They're keeping it in a North Logan police department.
Okay, And how do you how does it feel that, I mean, you have all this, you know all this happened, you have all these stories.
The police chief obviously believes you.
I mean, but how does it make you feel to not be able to have a prosecution, that they can't go after these people?
I go back and forth with that because it's see if anybody knows what I've done basically since then, cause the begin in the beginning, I was hiding, right and I didn't want anyone to know. I mean, if you if you look at my driver's license, it'll send you to a police department. Like I didn't want anyone to know where I was at all. I was scared to be in the state, but couldn't leave the state because of programming to not leave the state right now. I kind of had this flip happen in me because I
I've started. At first, I wanted nothing to do with my abilities either. I was in professional sports. That's what I wanted to do. Just anything that would get me grounded in the physical and I don't want anything to do with this kind of ethereal crap. So I was in massive resistance to that, but it was like not going away. So at at a certain point in my healing process, I was like, you know, I have to I can't like live this way in resistance to an
aspect of my being forever. So I started opening back up to this sort of spirituality thing, and I started seeing clients individually for just health issues.
At that time.
It wasn't like mental issues They're always into related but I would see people who had like cancer, or I'd see people who had gastritis or you know, a broken limb or something like that, and I would do healing sessions with them. And it occurred to me that a lot of the things that I was saying, you know that it occurred to me that at first of all, coming through an experience like that, you learn a lot like I actually went through an enlightenment experience. When I
was stuck in this hole in the ground. He used to keep me and it bus sized his backguard. He used to line it with stinging nettle and keep me down in there for hours a time. So I feel like it's a lot of what I learned coming through that experience that made it so that I know these sort of larger truths I guess. So I started helping people with those things, sort of like an amount of
wisdom comes out of suffering. So I started to notice that making a difference in people, and so I started thinking about it and I was like, you know, this way of living is not.
A way to live at all.
Because when I started going through the process with the with the with the police, I started getting death threat letters and the police part and Salt Lake City actually has those because that's who I took them to. They were unmarked letters with specific trigger words, and it was just like, you know, what, is this gonna be my life? That's sort of the question I had to ask, Is this gonna be my entire life where I'm just hiding
and I'm ashamed of myself? Really, because that's the attitude that most of society takes about.
People like me. Is that were damage goods, Like no guy should date a girl?
Is that complicated? Why would you ever want to do that? So it just became not okay. Basically after a while, I was like, hey, this is not okay that women like me are treated this way. Be this is not a way live, this hiding, and so I've occurred to
me basically that there are two ways to hide. The first is to go incognito and try to escape and run for the rest of your life the seconds to become so in the public eye that they it's very difficult to have you disappear without somebody figuring out where you've gone, you know what I mean. So I was like, that's probably a better idea. Not only that I'm sort
of sick of it. I would sit there in these groups with these women, some of them were forty fifty, and I'm watching them have the the same issues as ever before. One of them got triggered and almost killed her whole family, And I'm like, if this is the best that we're looking at for people who have come out of scenarios this bad is, you know, people who are terrified for the rest of their life, people who
are always looking over their shoulder. It's not gonna work for me, and it's not gonna work for me to buy this thing too, where all of them are like, don't tell anybody, We don't want anybody to know, you know, and that's the status quo. And I like, at this point, I was like, I'm kind of a ballsy person. So I was like, that's not gonna work for me anymore. To watch these women, not just myself, act like it's okay to not say anything about this crap. That's exactly
why these little girls still get taken. So it was sort of like it became this philanthropic thing for me, which is always a self centered thing to some degree, but I was like, you know, if there's like a six year old out there that this is still happening to, I won't forgive myself unless I say something. That's sort of where I went to. So I just decided to basically be the poster child for ritual abuse. I was like, if nobody else wants to talk about this stuff, I'll
talk about it. Fine, I'm gonna tell you that this stuff exists. If you don't want to believe that is is this, then you're part of the problem.
It kind of leads me to my next question, is there are people out there who don't believe this exists.
There's gonn be.
People that watch our story that are gonna be like, oh, yeah.
She's crazy. I know, I've seen them. I did that interviews. This is what's really frustrated me.
It's like, honestly, and this is the case with any kind of abuse situation. The perpetrator asks nothing from you. You can disbelieve what the victim says and you can go back to living your life, believe in that reality is one way, and it can be safe, and it can feel good and you don't have to worry about your nine year old daughter getting taken and murdered. Now, when you signed with a victim and you believe a story that somebody has said, like me, it puts people
in a moral dilemma. I'm essentially asking people to rewrite their entire version of reality. Now I understand, of course, being in the position that I'm in today, being a self help expert, if you will, how difficult it is for people to.
Rewrite their realities.
So of course I'm gonna run into a serious amount of backlash from people who do not want to believe that this is possible. It's a lot easier to look at someone like me and say this stuff can't possibly exist, because then I get to live in a safe world, and to say, you know what this is a super dangerous, messed up world, which is where people go and they hear stories like this. So yeah, a lot of people
aren't gonna believe. I mean, I've done interviews before that I regret where it's like, I've talked to people who I thought would give a sort of rational overlook of the fact that this ritual stuff is happening and is happening in our communities, and it's turned exactly the opposite way.
But you know, it's actually.
Been I feel like people are ready for it, you know, like, for example, I did an interview with the Herald Journal, which is the local newspaper in Logan, Utah, and the editor really messed up with the piece. I'll just tell you that basically, and he sparked a major controversy in the town, which twe degree is good because it got
people questioning. The major controversy was that people looked at that story and some of them are like, why, okay, this is not okay that you're canvassing a totally mentally ill woman. So they were the ones that didn't believe.
But then we're mad at.
Him because he made a spectacle of someone who's so obviously mentally ill that they could believe this would happen to them. The whole other side, though, which was interesting, came out and they would not let it go. Of therapists in that particular town who are saying, no, I get about ten stories a month exactly like this to the tea, So we're unwilling to buy your story that this is just a story because I'm hearing the same thing in this town. And then other people write in
and saying, this is my childhood. I grew up in this type of occult and I'm not brave enough to come forward, but this stuff does happen. And so it was like that particular newspaper got just inundated with this super two sided type of reality from the public of saying, oh my gosh, you know a lot of people do know this is going on and just don't know what
the hell to do about it. So I feel like, what's been interesting for me watching I don't watch, I try not to watch the news, but catching wind of the fact that this is actually coming more into the public view.
I mean, you've got how.
Many girls in the past two years have just randomly come strolling out of basements that they've been kept in for years. It's like the public eyes are starting to open to the idea that this kind of stuff.
Does actually go on.
So I feel like we're actually more ready than ever before, and I feel like that's really good for people in my position who are have been victimized by these particular groups to not have to cower and not have to be in a state of shame forever.
You talked a little bit about more cases coming out. I actually was in Ohio when Gina Dejesu, Samanda Barry were all rescued.
And listen, I don't know what she's about to say about this, but I used to stroll the neighborhood where that dude kept all them bitches in the basement in Cleveland, Like that's the really shit. Okay. I don't know if he was into SIRA or not, or he's just a weird fucking psycho that like to keep bitches in his basement and getting pregnant. Anyways, the thing I was gonna say, she was talking about these women they're getting triggered and they almost killed their whole family, or she was getting
death threats, letters with trigger words in him. And I'm sitting here thinking like it's so it's like vernacular now pop culture to be triggered. I'm triggered, triggered, triggered, triggered. There's actually a really good song called triggered Anyways that almost makes me think. It's almost like with the other desensitizing shit about these people coming forward and telling their story and you hear it over and over and over again to the point where you're like, Okay, yeah, they
raped the babies. They the babies, they did the whatever, and they chopped up the bodies and then they raped the pieces and then they and like at some point, as a conspiracy theorist, you're like, okay, we've heard this one before and using the word now just to be like, oh, I went to Starbucks today and I was so triggered. They were out of my shit. They made my drink wrong, they did this, they did that.
I was so triggered.
It's like they have included this stuff in like the daily Uh, Like it's just normal, Like Epstein files are getting out and everybody's triggered, right, and everybody's this and everybody like it's just become part of our vernacular to say and see and hear these things. I'm triggered. Oh did you hear about Epstein and the pedophiles and the
this and then that? If you would have said these things like I don't know, six seven, eight years ago, people would have thought people would have their skin would be crawling, okay, because it would be such a horrific
thought to think that this stuff was going on. And now you have people just like at the grocery store and shit talking in front of you in the line, Oh yeah, did you hear about that Epstein stuff in the in the Epstein and the Epstein and the this and the It's like the general public is talking about this stuff. Okay, talk about trigger Hello. But anyways, I
just wanted to throw that out there. And by the way, if you're one of those douchebags, and if you are, I still love you if you listen to my show, but please consider not doing this. You tell people that they're true you or you're getting triggered. Okay, if you've lived through some shit like this where you've had to fuck a dead corpse ass, fucked up dead body that's all carved up with a dick on hard, okay, you
can say you get triggered by stuff. Okay, But if your boyfriend or your husband didn't take out the trash and that really got on your nerves, you're not triggered, honey, you pissed off. Okay. And if I'm not even gonna go there with men. If there's men out there saying that they're getting triggered, just click out of this podcast. That's a little too fin for me. I don't like it at all. I see now I'm triggered just thinking about it. Some dude walking around out there going I'm triggered.
I'm triggered. Just stop, just stop, stop, or I'm gonna trigger you, and it's gonna be a different kind of trigger. Trigger warning. Okay, this podcast does not cater to delicate sensibilities. So anyways, let's get back into the interview.
Obviously, it's not to the magnitude of your case of what at least we haven't heard that. It was to the magnitude of your your situation where you were abused.
But things like that.
Do you think things like that are helping? Like those cases a smart case.
And it's like, you know, I gotta tell you, and it's an interesting reaction, and I know it's a reaction A lot of us have to get out of the groups. It's like we watch we watch these and it's like some part of us is set free when those women come forward and we're like, oh, thank God, but another
part of us is intensely jealous. It was the most interesting reaction I watched in myself to the Elizabeth Smart case because I was just like, first of all, I was so angry because the amount of money she had. You know, that's the only reason that anyone gave a shit that she disappeared. Right, Let's just be honest, because I mean, if you're like a little little Foster kid,
nobody's gonna put your face anywhere. You're not gonna be in multiple states, much less you're lucky to be in one city, like on on a gas station window or something. So on one hand, I was like, I was like, yes, thank God's like you know, this stuff is in the public news, and I was like, you know, I hate her. I hate her because there's so much attention. I hate
her because she's glorified. I hate her because you know, the grady fear her is now that she's got her Unteen's book, is that people are you know that she's releasing this God major that she's set for rest of her life because people know about it, and the majority of us are like struggling, I mean really struggling.
I'm doing pretty good.
Majority of people who get out of these scenarios which are I mean for life, they're damaged for life. So yeah, I was just I just it's a really interesting reaction to have. But in answer to your question, yeah, I think it's helping. I think with every single case that we see coming out with this, people are more were forced to accept the reality that this stuff occurs, instead of just discrediting every single one of us, which has
been the status quo for so long. It's really easy to write us off and say we're mentally ill.
Is this your coping mechanism talking and sharing your story or how are you coping today? I mean, because you obviously, I mean, you relive this every day. It's not something that you wake up and it's miraculously gone.
I wish it was some time.
I mean, you've spent what thirteen years of your life, sixteen years of your life living as hell, yes.
And now eleven years trying to get over it. My coping skills, I've surrounded myself with really good people who have been rehabilitating me. I think that's the real story, the real stories. If you've been hurt so bad, you're your only option of figuring out that it's possible to be treated differently is to find people to treat you differently.
And I got really lucky that way.
And I also I don't take a passive approach to my life. It's like, you know, super intelli. They pick these groups profile for very intelligent people, and it's like, on one hand that worked against me on this sand, they can work for me because.
I can now really.
Take an active role in my own healing. So I'm really involved in like spirituality, super involved in self help. I'm obsessed with shadow work, like you know, probing around in my subconscious is an obsession of mine. And I also buy into a lot of the philosophies that you
can change your reality if you change your mindset. So having even if you don't believe in that kind of stuff, just what it feels like to know that you might have some kind of say in the way your life goes based on how you're thinking, is enough empowerment to at least make some of us feel better.
So I do that kind of stuff.
On a daily basis, I write gratitude journals about what I'm happy about in my life. I just try to basically follow my bliss and it's worked, because focusing on being damaged for the rest of my life is not gonna get me anywhere but more damaged.
I guess where are your parents now?
They actually lived down in southern Utah.
Do you have any contact with them?
Very little?
That's sort of what I'm the most sad about is that our relationship is completely deteriorated.
Is it because of the situation?
Yep?
I mean obviously you didn't have You said you didn't have a good relationship with your parents growing up, and that was something that attracted your keeper to you. Yes, do you ever think that your pa? Do your parents believe you and what happened?
They believe something happened because it's undeniable and they know that the man my keeper was the one who did it. But they don't believe all of my story because if they accept that all of it happened, then they have to accept that they really crappy parents, and they are unwilling to do that obviously, because obviously, I mean, my
parents are not horrific people. If they would have known this stuff was going on, If they would have known that I was coming home hurt because he hurt me, not because of a horse fall, or you know, knew that I was writing really sadistic, horrific poetry in grades school because I was being hurt, not because I was just sensitive and depressed, they would have stopped it. They missed every red flag, basically, And because they missed every red flag, their reality of my life and my reality
of my life is entirely different. So there can be no so far no reconciliation between my parents' version of my childhood and what I'm saying happened in my childhood. And the real reason I'm not talking to my parents right now is not because of what happened. I could forgive them any day for what happened before. I could, like today, if they walked through the door and said, you know, we're gonna acknowledge that all of the stuff that you say happened to happen.
Let's find healing of it. It's fine.
I'll let them off the hook immediately for everything, you know. But the reality is that I don't talk to them because of the fact that there's a rift between what they're willing to accept happened to me and what they are unwilling to own up to basically about the past, and that's happening in real time. So yeah, like this has destroyed every aspect of my family life as well,
which was a huge shock to me. I'll tell you that because when I got away from the group, figured I would tell my parents and everybody around me what would happen, and I'd be welcomed with like open arms. I was not even remotely prepared for people to discount that I went through what I'm saying that I went through.
But this is a typical story.
I mean, I'm like one of eight billion women who experienced this exact same thing. Where when we try to say hey mom, you know, like it's usually incest where this happens, but it's like other cases as well. A little girl says, hey mom, dad, was you know having sex with me at night all the way growing up?
She's like, no, you were just imagining that.
Most of your family's going to react that way too. So it's like a whole other level of pain for us is that we're not It's like the story is not welcomed. I'm like lucky that my parents will admit that for sure there was abuse going on. They'll admit
to everything that happened in my teen years. It's just those years when I was really young, when they felt like they were trying to be good parents and weren't aware that he was taking me out of my bed, weren't aware that he was taking me out of school. It's really hard for them to like even go to the place where they might have put me in a school that would just be fine, like sending me off with someone random.
Your case is a little bit different in the fact that you still were living with your parents. He was taking you out of your home, out of school. He was doing this right under the nose of your parents when he loved that, which they don't. Which most cases, as you said, aren't like that. Most cases are the child becomes adductive, they become a missing child, and then they're never heard from again, if.
Or they're born into the groups under.
Someone Sure, if.
You're a parent, if a parent is watching this and their child might be going through this in a similar situation to you, where it's happening right under their nose, their child is still living with them, still coming home.
What sort of red flag should they be looking for?
Why?
My god, how does a parent know? What should a parent do?
You know?
Instead of me saying what a parent do, it's sort of like what a parent shouldn't do. The only way that I'm not I'm not gonna sugar go you. These people will not target healthy families. They target unhealthy families. So they are only going to target children who are to some degree isolated from the rest of the group.
Now that isolation can be a physical one like we see where a parent has to work so much to their kids, like meandering around after hours, or it can be like in my case, an emotional rift between parents and child, which makes the the you know, they can feel that in the second perpetrators can. So what I would say is, don't create the conditions in the first place for that to happen. If you have a kid you don't relate to, then really you got to try
to relate to them. Most parents don't really try to understand their children because to do that they sometimes have to admit that they're doing something wrong. And most parents are like a lot more interested in defending the idea that they're good parents than opening themselves up to the possibility that they're creating a condition.
Which is painful for the child.
Right, So I would say, like, the closer you can be to your children, the more that you can talk to them and understand them specifically, and the earlier you could talk to them about what's appropriate versus not appropriate, the better. I mean, my parents talk to me about sex when I was nine, ten eleven, and I had already been being raped for like four years, so it's a little too late. So I feel like, you know, if we're doing the right thing, it's that we're making
the preparatory things. We're doing the preparatory things correctly instead of like remedying the situation after it's already occurred. Major red flags for abuse. Cutting is a huge one. Self abuse is like any kind of self abuse, not just cutting is a huge red flag for abuse.
Another good one.
Would be like dissociative states. Kids who are getting abused tend to have a very difficult time with staying in reality. They have an issue focusing, or they may be so hyper focused. That's another thing that they do to try to cope is they'll like hyper focus on something and they won't want to watch you or listen to you.
It's almost like an autistic type of behavior. Another thing is they'll have frequent especially girls if they're getting sexually abused, that you're gonna see lots and lots of urinary tract infections. Their immune system is gonna get targeted first. They'll have a lot of weird sicknesses. Headaches are a super common one too, that kids will just have unexplicable headaches all the time.
And that's another big tip off there too.
You'll see this like measure withdrawal and sort of sadness happen in them.
You know, it's gotten to the point.
It's difficult for me, of Chris, because you could probably look up with like lots of signs to your kids getting abused somewhere. But from the stand point as somebody who's in my position, where I've been in that scenario and I've been around it, I can recognize it in ten seconds. You can feel it on people when they've
been hurt by someone you know. And I think the issue too with apparents is that they're What I would say is, don't latch onto the idea that you know everything about the people that you are spending time with like friends and family members, because sometimes we are so addicted to buying into a facade that means our family's wonderful, and family is everything that we can't recognize when the uncle's doing something, or when the dad is doing something,
or when the aunt is doing something, or when the sister or sister in law is doing something. So I think that for a lot of us, it's the fact that we have this addiction to maintaining an idea which makes us feel good that we have closed our eyes to the ability to even see these things going on in the first place. So what I would say to people is be willing to question everything you think.
I guess.
You got to really be open otherwise you're not gonna see this stuff because it's not gonna benefit you to.
I mean, think about it.
Would you rather believe that your brother is abusing your daughter or would you rather believe that he's a good guy and that something else is wrong with your dad. It's a lot easier to believe that this stuff doesn't go on than does.
Go on her.
But see, I feel sorry for my baby because I'm gonna be the exact opposite parent I'm gonna accuse everyone. I'm gonna try not to, but I don't. I mean, there was a lady. I have a front pack. I have it on right now. Actually he loves it. He loves to be close to me. But I had him in my front pack at the grocery store and I was just minding my own business, shopping, you know, getting a little gross. And this older lady, grandma, age lady,
she come up. She come up on us, and he had a little T shirt on that day, and she rubbed his elbow and she said, oh my goodness, you got a little angel in your hands. I said, thank you, turned away and got the fuck out of the aisle. She was trying to molestize his arm. I am, I don't care if you're old. I don't care if you disabled. I don't care if you identify as a minority. Okay, don't put your hands upon my child. She tried to
molestize his elbow in the middle of the grocery store. Listen, people, he ain't doing a sleepover. He ain't doing a boy scout, he ain't doing a North Fox Island retreat, he ain't doing a Disney cruise, ain't doing it. He's gonna hate me later, but at least his beehole will be normal sized. You know what I'm saying. It's just in date cares too. Fuck a daycare. Fuck a daycare. I will live in my car before I have to work and put them in a daycare. And if you are a parent that
uses daycarriage, listen, I ain't judging you. I'm just saying, be close with your kids. Ask them questions, ask them about their teachers. Be up in that bitch, Be a presence in that daycare. Make it to where they understand when Julia shows up, it's all business. Okay. Be inspecting that bitch. Be interviewing those fuckers up in there. Okay, make them scared of you, all right. But anyways, I'm enjoying this interview here. I might have to grab the cheetos.
The cheetos because uh, you know, I like to be on the watch parties. I like to be having a little snack.
If somebody is watching this and they're living this life, they're in a position what run? What would you say to them? How did they escape? How did they give back to normalacy? So to speak.
It's just so.
For anybody who's going through this type of a group. It's like, what I'm gonna say is gonna fall in deaf ears, because there is when you control a child. I mean, look at an elephant, right, You tie an elephant who's a baby to a giant trunk and he can't move the trunk. When that elephant is old enough that he could move it.
Like that, he's not gonna move.
So we're in that same kind of position psychologically with these people who don't understand.
That you're you're perpetrators.
Even though they could do anything they wanted with you and you were your children, they can't do that to you when you're older. So the first thing that I would say is run as fast as you can find a scenario. And you know that there's those loopholes all of us have dreamed about it where you just like, if it doesn't matter whether that's a stranger, just run to whoever the first person that you see is that
could possibly hide you from this type of scenario. And I would have it be somebody outside the family, especially if you're in part of the group is like part of the family dynamic. I would have to be somebody completely unrelated. Now, people who are watching who part of these groups are gonna know what I mean, because you get so adept at reading people when your survival depends on them that you can kind of feel what person's
gonna be protective? What person isn't you know what I mean. Also, yeah, I think i'd say that about escaping. I would just tell them to get away. Like, however, it's wrong because it doesn't occur to you when you're in the.
Middle of it that you can. But you can. You can. You can't because like part of the rule is that they don't get to go get you. I mean, that's if you want me to tell you.
The main reason that I'm not back there because they haven't loaded me in a truck is because that's against.
The programming rules. We have to be like dogs who come back home.
Otherwise they don't have total control and if they ever do get you, they're gonna kill you. So basically, run as fast as you can to run to the first place. If you can find a police department, that's even better, because I mean, now it wasn't like it was when I was younger.
If you walk through the door and you're like.
I'm getting torture, this is what's happening, I'm getting abused there After me, your average policeman who's heard about this stuff already is gonna be like, all right, we're not gonna release you. We're gonna call a child psychologist. We're gonna like, not let you leave here until we make sure that's not happening. Sure, let's hope that would.
Be the reaction.
You mentioned before the interview that this is happening a lot in Idaho, Utah. You mentioned Boise, what should I, as the average person, be looking for to know that this is going on? Where does this happen at and what sort of things are happening.
The rural areas are the worst.
If anybody is doing like a typical sacrifice or something, they can't be miles and miles out. And so usually what it is is they'll pick a side canyon somewhere that has like an overhang or a cave or something like that, and they'll do the rituals there, or else they'll pick private property. Let's say that a member of the group has like a huge, like a huge place property with fields.
They'll pick those kinds of places.
What I would say, I'm not really worried about you specifically because people who work in the news, they've kind of had their eyes up until a lot of the
messed up stuff that's happening. What I would basically say to anybody is that you got to look for anything that's that's abnormal, And I would say report anything, Report anything that that even remotely triggers you this your this might not be okay type of thing, because like, for example, when I was younger, I was eleven years old, one of the things that my particular portrayer used to do all the time is to keep me in these these bird ties that were like sort of like horse hobbles
or else. These have you ever seen, Like what falconers use is like really thin.
Rope that they tie.
So he would hog time me with my wrist, my ankles, and I'd spend days that way sometimes and you wouldn't feed me.
But this one time.
It was like probably eleven o'clock in the morning and middle of the workday, and he took me out of the back of his truck and put me hog tide in this parking.
Lot with tons of people around, I mean like tons.
It was lunch hour. There was a group of three women at this particular point, who were walking into the subway station store right by there.
They passed me.
All of them watched me hogtide on the floor, and they looked at him, and they looked at me, and they looked at him and looked at me, and then they just kept walking. I know that in their minds, the part of them was like, this is not okay, but we've got this don't interfere in other people's lives
type of attitude. Now that one of those women calling a police officer could have potentially saved the next how many years of my life you were eleven, So the next eight years of my life that I spent torture, it could have been prevented by one of those women calling in. So it's like if you see something bizarre, if you see a parent that's treating a child bizarrely, don't assume.
They're the parent. That's another thing too.
People assumed that he was my parents like a lot, and he would tell them that this is my daughter when he wasn't my parent. So so we like to assume a lot when we see things that are that don't fit in with how we feel, because we don't like to trust how we feel now, I would, honestly, god say like it's worth it to call a police office eight times and be sort of off base about what's going on for the one time when you call and it's like, oh my gosh, we just found Elizabeth Smart.
You know, That's what I would say, because I mean, unless you trip across something like that, you're not going to know this stuff exists. They're doing it in their basements. They're picking kids who are not going to be recognized, and if they show up on a missing poster, they're just gonna be one of a million names. You should go look up those figures if you ever want to get really cricked out by the way, Yeah.
You said that he mentioned to people that you were his daughter a lot. Oh yeah, why not speak up when you were when these people around and say no, help me.
Well, so I'll tell you.
One of the very first programming sessions that I went through, aside from that one where I was bonded to him, was another scenario where I was, yet.
Again put on a lecture shop.
And basically they can use they can do this just by putting you in like an isolation tank, which they like using, or they can do it just by depriving your senses, which they like doing, or they can use one of these these medications which put your mind in a more suggestible state life ketamine, where essentially he walked me through visualization. So we all know that that, Like if you monitor a person's heart rate and you hook them up to a guided meditation.
Say, I was gonna say, okay, now, now you're gonna imagine.
A nice, peaceful meadow, right, if I walk you through that, it will be very real to your mind. You're gonna be in that meadow, You're gonna be touching the grass, you're gonna be feeling the breeze. What they do in these groups is they use meditations and visualizations along with breathing techniques to induce immense amounts of trauma and to
program the subconscious mind. So one of the first programs that was done on me like that, he had me breathing and then go through an elaborate visualization where he was walking me through my home having just told okay, you just told people about me, and you just told people who you really are. So what do you see hanging from the rafters?
I shrugged my shoulders.
He goes you see that that's your mother. Do you see that she's missing her skin, someone has taken it all off of her body because you said something. Do you see that her blood is all over the floor, Go touch it? So there were walking these children like they were walking me, basically through the elaborate scenaries about exactly what will happen. See, it's not enough for these groups to say we're gonna kill everyone and to just say that.
They actually walk you through the.
Scenario of you know, my mother being having her skin filaid off of her body, hung from the rafters, having my father decapitated, helping my brother be eaten and disemboweled, like all of that.
Basically I was walked through that step by step.
My brother was the real one that he used against me, because they're like, we're gonna take him if you say anything.
So why would you not believe?
That?
Is the question for a small child. So I believed every word he said and was completely convinced that that would happen. And then when you get older and you are participating more in the group, it's programming sessions about how the.
Cops are gonna come after you. You're gonna be stuck in a jail cell forever.
So you the last thing you want is ad so now you're bonded with them and you're sort of against the good guys type of a thing.
So that's why I didn't say anything, and.
I didn't I didn't know that he was wrong about that too, because that was what it wasn't just that you told people. He told me that he was my real father. Your mother's a horse, she's slept with me, and I'm your real father. That's why you don't look like your real dad.
You look like me.
And so he was confusing too because my parents would say things growing up. See, like my parents, the number one joke when I was growing up is that the bees waxes have our baby. It's the fact that when I was rolled in when I was younger, and when I was first born, they rolled me into the delivery room and the Hispanic staff at the place that I was born couldn't pronounce my last name, and so they wrote beeswax. And so the joke forever growing up was
the beeswaxes have our baby. That there was some switch there, and you know, it was super funny to my parents, who didn't like understand me or get along to me, super sad to me, like a soul crushing as a child to have that joke be spread around as a kid, because it means that, you know, serf does plant to see like I don't fit into the family, and so they're like, we don't know where those like really Asian looking eyes came from and stuff like that.
And my perpetrator was really quite handsome. He's not.
It wasn't like this decrepit old person that you'd expect. And so when he would bring up stuff like that to me, like look at our eye shape as the same, or you know I had dark hair and everyone else in your family was born with light hair. I was the only person in my family born with dark hair. So I'm like, all right, maybe he really is my real type of thing. I had no reason to doubt that either, especially given that I didn't. I mean, he's
capitalizing like they all do. People who are majorly successful perpetrators. They capitalize on truths, and that's why they get so good at telling lies. If you if you tell eight truths in one lie, the person was gonna accept the lies. So he was basically working on what he already saw prison Like I said, to do exactly what he did.
I had no reason to doubt that.
So if he was like sitting there, like he was off with me at a cafe and would say something like that, I had no reason to.
Come up against it.
Besides, there's consequences coming up against him.
Oh big ones.
You obviously believe this happened to you, truly believe that. Do you ever doubt that maybe this is just some sort of nightmare that you had and you've just relived it, Or do you ever doubt that this happened to you?
No?
Ever? No, because you know.
I'll put it this way. Give me the last birthday party you remember my.
Gosh, probably my sister's. Yeah, do you.
Doubt it happened? No, same thing.
It's not that these memories are not obscure. It's not like I'm grasping at them. They're just as real as what did you eat yesterday?
You can remember that. You may not be able to tell me what.
The person and the fifth row was wearing, right, But it's like, you know, people love to think that that everybody questions trauma memory. But I'm like, it's somebody asking me, like, how do you know what happened It's the same as me asking you, how do you know that you had a birthday party when you were five years old?
I don't believe you that happened. What wait? What you know?
People only question memory when it when they don't want to believe the reality of something.
That's the truth.
And you're you've accepted this, and so you're willing to not think you're willing to admit that this happened because you've accepted it.
Yeah, I mean, be saying that this didn't happen. It's like that's lying to myself, the same as somebody trying to convince themselves that they didn't go to the grade school they went to. It's like it would be that extremity of lying to myself.
Sure do you have? Does has this caused you to have trust issues with people?
To yes? Oh yeah, I'll admit it.
I mean I'm horrible trusting people, but I'm also horrible at living a guarded life because it feels like craps.
So yeah, and you went public because you wanted to. You wanted to hide, but your way of hiding was to go public so that if you went missing, Yes, it was like, oh where's till I.
Well, I wanted to hide, but I also wanted to I also wanted to be like the forerunner for other women to be brave enough to do it.
So I'm when Doug reached out to you and you agreed to do this interview, what was your reasoning for agreeing to do it?
You know, at first I was like, he's gonna be just like the Herald Geral, They're just gonna.
Try this credit me. I don't know, oh my god. But I was like, I didn't have that feeling.
I know that I talk about feelings a lot, but I honestly believe that you got to trust your feelings because I didn't so much when I was younger, and
that's what got me into so much trouble. So now it's like, I tried to listen to my emotions, and when I was trying to listen to my emotions about this particular interview, I didn't have this horrible feel to it, and I was like, you know, I'm gonna become okay if he wants to discredit me and basically do exectly what the Erald Journal did and make me seem like some completely raving lunatic, I have to be okay with that, because I have to understand the motive that people would
have for doing that, and I have to also understand that it doesn't change my day to day life, like honestly, what I'm doing for a career.
Now, regardless of what reporters say or.
Don't say, having people write me letters who are part of these groups and say thank god you said something because I don't have the bravery, but it's like you say, some part of my life saying this, It's like I still have that, yeah, and it's still worth it, regardless
of what people in the mainstream say. So on the off chance that that wasn't the case, which I didn't feel like it was the case, I was like, you know, maybe there will be somebody in the area, because honestly, you're a particular news station you're coming from is in the area this stuff goes on. So if there's somebody watching this, maybe maybe one person will be saved.
Sure, and you don't You've never wanted during this interview named your perpetrator.
You're keeper.
I named it in the police reports. Here's the issue.
And this was like this was explained to me like very explicitly by the police. Both the police department and by like separate attorneys and people that if I name the perpetrator publicly basically without the trial going through.
Sure right now, not only does that flush the pheasants. What that means is that basically it gives.
Them an opportunity to stash evidence, but also I can be sued for defamation character right, So that's the only reason that I know.
So it's not any sort of trying to protect him, it's just the legality of the situation.
Yeah, Now I've gone into because I've become so incredibly spiritually active, I've gone through a hell of a lot of process.
I mean, we're looking when you're looking at me, you're looking at eleven.
Years aging of dealing with this type of stuff on a daily basis. I've come to a very interest space of forgiveness. Not yet for my parents, but for him. Took me years. I mean I went through years of wanting to burn him, shoot him, like so much rage. I can't tell you I wanted to burn my whole childhood to the ground.
But after going.
Through that process, it's what's interesting is that I got a front row seat basically to the amount of suffering that these people go through that end up in these.
Types of situations.
I don't actually agree with the people who are coming up with these theories that the psychopathy is something which is inborn and genetic. I don't believe that because I got a front receipt to more than a few of these people, and the reality is that they come from extremely traumatic situations and that's what turns them off emotionally and makes them not only want to but capable of doing the things that.
They keep doing.
So when you get a front row seat to the suffering which creates the very condition that makes these people the way they are, I can't hate them with the same amount of vehemence, I guess as I did to begin with. So in my sole progression, basically as I would say it, I don't desire him to come to a mes amount of harm. You know, It's not like I'm like rooting for there to be justice. There's no justice in somebody getting put away. The justice is in
somebody living a happy life. The justice is in somebody getting out of a situation like that and finding a way to forgive and to make something beautiful. There's no justice that can be found in somebody sitting in a jail cell. So regardless of whether I I don't want other people to go through this kind of stuff, but I don't have immense amounts of pain that there's no justice in the situation. I feel amense amounts of justice in the situation. I've done a very good job.
It's my life.
Maybe I'm just petty, but I'm more of an eye for an eye type of bitch. And I'm so glad that she's gotten forgiveness or whatever it is that she's acquired through her cell searching. I don't be doing any soul searching. I will tell you straight up, if somebody was to ever to ever try this on my child, I would be law abiding citizen up in this bitch. I would be cutting dickson lips off eyelids, the whole nine. I ain't talking about a jail cell. I'm talking about
time to a car and dragon. Okay. So I'm glad that she is able to find serenity and peace and forgiveness. I'm very happy for her. I'm gonna cut a bitch just saying.
You've forgiven you're a keeper. Oh yeah, but not your parents. When you hear that, it almost seems backwards, like you would forgive your parents because your parents didn't know what's going on. Your perpetrator is the one that inflicted this caught harm and pain on you, explaining me, explain to me the logic I guess behind that forgiveness that you've come to.
If you want to use a psychological term, it's called bystander trauma. Usually what you'll find is that if there is a perpetrator and a bystander, the person will find it the hardest to forgive the bystander.
And it's no different with me, because it's.
Like I've had to sort of accept the fact, especially recently, that this wouldn't have happened unless there was already pain there with my parents and I. This wouldn't have happened if we were a really healthy, happy family together. I really belonged to everything. So yeah, it's way harder for me to forgive all of that. I mean, I can under I can at least relate more to his mentality being so traumatized as a child and then ending up
this way. What's difficult for me is watching people who are quote supposed to love and protect me fail at it over and over and over and then continue to fail at it now that I'm adult. That's the real reason we're not talking to each other, and that's why it's so difficult for me to just forgive it. It's not because of what they did, who they're doing. I mean, how are you supposed to forgive somebody that will look you in the face and say, well, we're willing to accept that something.
Definitely happened, but not all of it.
Sure.
It's like.
I mean, I like to compare it sometimes to telling fundamentalists Christian parents that you're gay. It's like if your parents say, well, okay, but we don't really believe that people can be gay, so we're not gonna accept all of that story. Then it's like some part of you can't really fully be seen by these people. And I mean, my parents would love it. It's because they're in pain. I will admit my parents. I mean, my parents' life was turned upside down with me. It was their life
turned to help because of what happened too. But it's just this, it's like, if not all of me can be seen by them, and they want me to move forward like anyone would, let's just get over it and let's just move on. But the reality of acute trauma like I went through is that my reality is I don't just get to move on. I mean, I still I still suffer the aftermath of it all the time. I still I'm learning how to pull myself out of seizures just now, but I still have dissociative seizures. I
get triggered by things randomly. I can't go watch movies because the previews might have something which is, you know, reminds me of the past, and then I'm gone, basically lost consciousness. I have immense relationship trouble. So it's like, you know, it doesn't work to just move on from something like that because it's so much of a part of your life. It's sort of like if you've lost your limbs at war. People say, well, just forget it and move on with your life, and you're like, well,
I could, but I can't really walk upstairs anymore. So it's a little bit hard when you have the reminder twenty four hours a day, and when when your parents call and say, how is your weak? I can't tell them the truth because the truth is it was really bad because I had to relive this. You ull trauma that happened, And I'm struggling because my son has hit this certain age that triggers me, and I'm panicked about
him getting taken. When you can't share those kinds ofdential, your family is a little bit difficult to have, like a really close relationship. Sure, But then so that's why I'm still I'm working to try to forgive them. But I also don't believe that forgiveness can be forced. That's something which I think a lot of people should know, especially if they've gotten away from groups and are watching
this right now. They're like, you cannot force forgiveness. We can use the word I forgave my perpetrator, I forgave my parents. The reality is is that you can't force that. It's an organic experience which happens in and of itself. And the minute you can look back and approve of what basically happened in your life is the moment you've forgiven somebody. Until then it hasn't happened. So you can't just say I forgive them and have it be true.
And you have a son, Now does he know what happened to you? How old is he?
Not?
Every detail? He's five?
Okay, not every single detail, honestly, cause I don't want to traumatize a hell of him.
But I don't believe in keeping secret from him. I mean, he knows that Mommy gets triggered.
He knows that Mommy loves his consciousness sometimes, and and.
You know, he he's really cute.
Like the other day we were watching this a program on dinosaurs and there was like a a gory scene in the dinosaur movie and he jumped across the couch and covered my eyes.
He's like, he's like, Mommy shouldn't see this. Mommy shouldn't see this. Push pause, and so on. One half of it's like, one half of me feels bad.
I'm like, oh my gosh, Like.
It's sad that my son has to deal with this. On the other side, it's like, because he understands what's going on with mommy, he is actually turning into a more well rounded person. Besides it, I mean, it doesn't make sense to me the light of my kid. If I'm having trouble, I'll say the mommy is just having a hard tongue. So I had a really bad time when I was a little kid. When I was a little kid, people hurt me really bad. He understands that.
So at this phase, instead of going into gruesome details, we're at that phase. He knows that mommy was hurt when she was little. He knows that mommy has trouble when she remembers certain things.
And that's about where we are.
So you have a long waist to go in your recovery. Yeah, you're Will you ever? Do you ever feel like you'll be fully recovered?
I would love to think that it's possible, but I think if I'm attached to the idea of being in a completely healthy state, then there's some aspect of me that rejects where I am right now.
And Okay, we're gonna skip to the end because this part was kind of boring. So this is her final thoughts, and then we'll have our final thoughts.
So yeah, sure, if there was one message that you could give anybody that might be going through this, what would that message be?
There's a reason for everything.
I think that was the one question I had in my mind the whole time that I was going through It was.
See, no, I don't know.
Fuck, I wasn't bringing to cheese, you know, I promise myselways gonna maketuresbout crying didn't work.
So you feel like what happened to you happened for a reason.
Yeah it took me like so many years to see that, but yeah, I spent I spent the majority of my time like and the whole.
So I would say that the reason that this is happening is not the one you think it is right now, because.
Most of us we go through these scenarios.
We think that you know, what's happening cause we deserve it, or it's happening cause we're evil or some stupid thing like that.
But sorry, I'm like, you're okay, sorry to be sorry.
I'm still a little resistant to my emotions.
I know you're okay.
I feel really like horrible when I break down in front of people, cause I still am afraid of being like that much utterable.
You know, sure?
Do you do you know what y or do you have a belief of the reason why I think.
Is that why I think I was.
I think I was meant to bring your new information to this world about compassion in getting over things. So I don't think that we know how to do that. I don't think that we know what forgiveness really is, and I don't think you know why these things go on. And I feel like I have this amazing ability now and I'm watching it with people every day, and I'm only to teach people why this stuff occurs, but also what to do to prevent it. And I think that
more than that I can. One of the major purposes is for me to be like an example for people who, especially women, who are going through these types of really painful things, to know that, you know what, this old paradigm of the fact that you're just damaged goes for the rest of your life.
Is not true.
So I feel like the m main purpose for this is this like beautiful image of life transformation which can occur and genuine forgiveness, not just feigned forgiveness, not just forget and get over it, like true, like soul altering forgiveness. I feel like I can teach that to the people of the world now. So yeah, I think that there's
there's purpose every time that somebody goes through something. There's purpose when we look at something that's super traumatic happening in our lives and we just can't understand for the life of this, why the hell it's like the whinny question. It just means that we haven't gotten far enough away from the circumstance to see the bigger picture and what was torturing me when I was going through everything. It's just that, I mean, I racked my brain for why the hell this could be?
Why it was? They mean, why the hell is this happening to me? Why am I the one? And I came up with a lot of painful explanations to that.
So what I would tell people is that don't believe that you know a systemed judgment. There's always a bigger picture and a bigger reason why you would be going through these things. And if you're telling yourself a painful story like I'm going through it cause I'm evil, or I'm going through it cause I'm bad, it's not the reason that there's always a much more beautiful picture of why things happen to people the way they do that you can't see when you're in the middle of it.
You can only see it when you put one foot in one of the other in the direction of healing. Then it's like organic. You don't have to even look for the purpose. It just falls in your lap one day and you're like Oh my god, I get it all of it.
Yeah.
Is there anything else that you that you want to talk about that you want to share if is there a message that you have?
Mm? Let me think. I think there.
We're in a time where we have to open up to these a lot darker aspects of the human psyche. You have to wouldn'mit that these things go on and we have to provide ways for both sides of the equation to heal. This is gonna be a main goal of my life. It's there's healing that needs to happen
both sides of the gun. We need to basically create a way in our society for people who are perpetrators and people who are victims of perpetrators to get healing for the conditions which they're experiencing, which we're causing them to inflict this kind of pain on other fellow men. So, you know, the greater message is it's no kind of justice to condemn either party.
That what I'm.
Calling for is a m a mass movement of healing and integration where these people on both sides of the gun are having access to ways that they can find happiness and healing which we're not providing for them when they get thrown to jail cells and we're not providing for them when we get thrown to society and now we're damaged goods. I would want society to be a lot more adult and welcome both people with open arms
into a space of let's do something about this. Let's not just put you in a corner and hope that that doesn't touch my family. Oh, it's touching your family. It's touching everybody's lives. This idea that we are separate from other people is an absolute illusion. If a girl gets taken, it does affect you, whether you're conscious of it or not. So I think this is our time to be responsible as a human race in general, regardless
of our denominations. We should all just sort of come together and realize that we all want collective healing from people. And it's like if you if you were to take an airplane and fly over to like the Middle East right now, those people don't want any different than we knew.
They want the same stuff. So if we could just like remove this l the lines.
That we keep putting between ourselves and other people enough to really care and enough to help people, then this kind of stuff wouldn't happen in the first place. People can only do this kind of stuff when they are separated enough that nobody cares. When they're separated in nothing notices.
You had said earlier that you were you had self mutilation, you had the scars on your ribs.
Do looking at those scars every day? What is that like for you?
I actually like them.
I love This sounds kind of funny. It's not like I get said every time I look at them. Instead, it's like it's like a road map of where I've been. And maybe that's a coping skill of mine to try to deal with.
The pain of my childhood. But I mean I did.
I covered most of my scars that were inflicted on me by other people with tattoos as you can see, sure, But it's like I look at these scars now and I can't hate where I've been without hating where I am so so I I look at them and it's like I can tell based on like like this one, for example, was made by the group during a ritual. I can feel the feeling where I was then and versus the feeling life I've created now, And it's like this really pretty road map of a sole progression.
Sure, is there anything else that you wanna talk about? I can think of how did you have a time? There's a strong.
Oh yeah, this is different. Well, I don't know what's well.
They could look up the dates on the basic Satanic virtual side, like if you wanted to, you could look up sr A dates and it'll show you all of the Satanic r A. Yeah, Satanic Ritual Association. It'll tell you basically all of the the typical dates which they use for their right. Now, it's worth mentioning that when these perpetrators, when they target children, they target the same profile of the child. So also, if you really wanna know like who is gonna be targeted, you should pay
close attention to your children and their personality types. So there's an interesting study that was done now I knocking
remember the exact one. But what they did is they took a bunch of pedophile killers like people who killed children, out of the maximum security PRISM and they took them to them all of America, and they gave them all polaroid cameras and sent them out separately to take pictures of the children which they would normally target because they wanted to see if they could find like a typical sort of similarity. I think it was four out of
five of these people picked to the same kid. And so what they've found basically what they were, what these people helped them with cause to our obvious benefit, a lot of these serious sociopaths are actually proud of what they've done, so they're pretty glad to brag about it and.
Talk to you about it.
They profile for children who have a very interesting personality type. They have to be very shy and quiet, but very strong. If you get shy but weak, they will they'll break.
Down, their body will go to hell.
Like they may not tell somebody, but you're gonna just like lose your subject. Basically, if they're strong, then obviously they're gonna fight back, especially if they're strong and loud. But if you find strong and quiet, that kid's gonna internalize a hell of a lot and at the same time they're not gonna say anything. So if you have a kid who's got a real sort of strong will, strong personality type that's also very shy and quiet, that's a major target super target for these types of people.
Is there a specific age that they're targeting, cause you were four.
Yeah.
The majority of the.
Ones that I have seen that are targeted when they are not part of a group are elementary age, so that would be probably let's start it at four.
Four to five is.
Probably the limit to the youth, the age that I've seen them get to the young side, So four to five all the way to about twelve, that's the target age.
It's a white wide range.
Yeah.
Yeah, Do you worry about your sad and pope all the time?
This is like the number one problem. I don't, let's face it. I've been through.
I can tell you there's a lot of things that are worse than death. So having personally experienced what it's like to be unable to escape and to be physically tortured and emotionally tortured, I.
Don't care whether someone shoots me. I don't care whether I die. What really scares me is something happening to my son.
And this is like the Achilles heel for me, and everyone knows that that's the case with those of us that escape from groups. It's like, you know, when I had him, I knew I was done for if they ever found him, I'd be done. I already know that about myself I am afraid of it all the time. I dream about it all the time. It's like it
torments me. I'm not afraid of him coming after me, and I have to have conversations with everyone in our house and you know, his his teachers about not only my public profile now but also what I went through, and just I have to be so dedicated not only to you know, explaining to them nobody is to take this child pick them up or not if you have not recognized our faces, if it's not me or this person, will literally show them they're not allowed to pick my
son up. So that's not fun to go through that whole story. But also it's like it's it's not fun to have conversations with my son where I have to basically go through.
That whole thing.
We're not gonna get in the car as somebody who's not you know, go through the people type of thing.
But yeah, you just do achies, you know.
That's really what doesn't for me when it comes to what I went through, is like, what the hell would ever happen if they took my son? And they do go after children children of yup people whose came which is quite rare, but but they're not gonna target you specifically, and that's how they try to keep in controls by targeting whatever you're attached to. They have to have complete
control of that, and it works. And and like God forbid, you have a baby in one of these scenarios, which does happen for a lot of us.
I mean a lot of women who were in like these groups.
They're getting pregnant at like twelve thirteen sometimes, so some of these girls as teenagers are having babies in the group, and that's why they can't leave even if they want to, cause their kids are now controlled by these people. It's like, thank god I got I was actually impregnated three times by and then aborted by him.
By your keeper.
Yeah, so yeah, he impregnant and then and then performed that all of the abortions with rudimentary veterinary equipment, which did a hell of a lot of damage. It was very hard for me to conceive my son because of just how much damage was done. But like, I was so traumatized about it, just like losing babies. Any woman would could relate to this, Like there's almost nothing more traumatic than losing babies.
But now that I'm gone I'm like, thank God, like thank God.
That they died, because I you know, now, now, knowing what it's like to love a child, I wouldn't have loved I don't all.
Yeah, wow, is there anything else for me?
The well?
I appreciate you. I know, we probably took more time than you really were planning on. I don't even know how long that was.
But to her twenty minutes really love a lot less than I thought.
Wow.
And so that's Teal Swan. I almost feel sorry for making fun of her. I mean, granted what she said, it's always I want to say sixty forty sixty percent of me wants to believe that everything she said is absolutely one true. Forty percent of me thinks that they plant people like this into the mainstream to confuse us and just to be able to control the narrative. But since sixty percent of me thinks that this really happened to her and that she is a genuine SRA survivor,
I almost feel bad for the bitch. I want to buy her coucie cream or whatever it is that she's pedaling these days. If you look hard enough on Facebook, you will see her ads. She's got the cundalini tordolini, rub some type of lotus flower oil that you were up on your taint, and you know, it might be amazing, It might open up all my chunkras and balance my third eyes in all the things. But besides that, I
really think her story's fucked up. And it's the same thing that I always say, if someone were to ever go after my child, she's a bigger person than me, because it would be law abiding citizen up in this bitch if someone was whoever for go after my child. But what do you think of teal swan? Everybody? Is she telling the truth? Is this all made the fuck up?
It's pretty Uh, it's pretty fucked up. I mean like some of the stuff I've heard others are Ari survivors talk about some of the stuff I hadn't heard before. But yeah, anyways, thanks for watching till the end. I hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back with some new, exciting, fresh shit soon. But uh, until then, I love you, guys, and I will catch you on the next one.
Girl, fuck up, you were the tricker. You brought me to an objective you when you know the picture getting I'm not locking in you doin everythink. You do it every time you want my enemy, you want no friend of mine.
Motherfucker your mouthfucking right, your motherfucking right on, bitter, your motherfucking right on, triggered, your motherfucking right up.
I want to fuck you right now.
I just turned the lights out now and you know when the song go down, when it would all go down.
Been a minute, been a while, Yeah, nobody, it is it.
You're with it, you know you.
Want it's not to do with it?
Better know mean you without you with it.
I'm about to burn this beach down.
You gotta need to lie down because I'm not trying a while down now.
But right now I don't know what okay forball love.
Might fuck around and go crazy because my fuck around have to pay me and blood.
This ain't the way that you want. Might catch your case in this bitch. Don't let me catch your face to face in this bitch.
Try your mother. Just not do this respect after what you did, mean what you've expected, your motherfucking your motherfucking right, your motherfucking right on, bitter, your motherfucking right on.
Drigger, your mother fucking right eye shutting another time that shout, another time, go by, turn out at the time, Oh, turn out at the time. Go oh the memories, oh you men to me.
Oh history, Oh that's history.
I'll calm down eventually.
Oh back evancially, it is coming back eventially
All back to me.