Baby, I'm a gangstato.
It takes out a tangle.
You don't mess with me, baby, I'm a gangsta.
Touch baby, you're a Gangstattoo.
For the warners, this podcast is designed to take you outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality. Listener Discretion is a vibe the fellas. This ain't my first time at the rodeos, William Ramsey, It's been a long time actually, I think maybe even about a year since we've talked. How are you?
How are you?
How was your Christmas?
It's good, it was good. I'm interested to see what it's gonna break loose in the new year. Not gonna lie. Do you have any predictions for us?
I think it's just gonna be more chaos and trouble, So I'm not so.
I love you. I have no idea, you know. I spoke with the guests recently and they were talking about how the pendulum swings and right now we're super super far left, and we'll gradually head to like super super far right, and I don't know, it's just like a pattern kind of throughout time. So I don't know.
We'll see, Yeah, we will see. I mean, it pretends to be very interesting coming. I think that I'll be surprised if Trump even gets into office. Thing, he's got to really twenty more days. Yeah, so try to kill him at least twice that we don't so who knows next one will be like go truck bomb or something like that. Right, they're scared. I think they're scared of
all the prime with some of the bags of mine. Actually, the accountability this time because he seemed to angrycently may not be a peaceful transference now, so we'll.
Have to see. Well, I actually have been kind of looking into something recently and I think you might actually know about it. I first discovered Dave McGowan from looking into the Laurel Canyon and I read strange scenes from the canyon, and then I've recently kind of been diving into one of his other books, which is Programmed to Kill. And I'm sure you're familiar with that one. Have you ever read it?
I've read it many times. I read it again. I've done a show on it. So I did a show on program to Kill with Tom and Brett of SAP Cinema, so we kind of reviewed it. So I would say I'm very familiar with it. It's a seminal book. It's a very important book when you think about it. From two thousand and four. This is kind of the beginnings of the Internet. What he achieved and what he was able to compile for me is extraordinary, and.
I think that a lot of times we get stuck on like the serial killer aspect of it. But there's like four or five chapters in the beginning when he breaks down all these pedophile rings and like the Belgian beast I think is what they called him, Mark Dutroux, and he had all those little girls like buried all over his property and stuff. Those are the kind of things that people really don't even know about.
They don't know how dark it was. The dutro was very very dark. I mean, that's an incredible story. I've interviewed people from Belgium about that. And there was actually a massive cover up, so much like the scandal that happened in Omaha, Nebraska that was covered by a couple of journals. But this is like, not only were they trafficking kids and Dutroux was networked, but they're like people
kids who died in dungeons and stuff. But it went through the whole system in Belgium, like it reached to the top and implicated a lot of landed gentry like people who are the aristocracy there. But then when he got caught, like twenty five people around him died. So it's clearly a pretty intense cover up as well. But yeah, super dark.
And so what did you think. I know you've talked about the Smiley Face killers a lot, what did you think after it started getting into some of the more well known serial killers, the gay Sy and the Dohmer and the Bundy. So a lot of the crimes that have been attributed to them don't even make sense for them to have committed the crime. And a lot of
the Ted Bundy victims are like Smiley Face victims. They've been they found out, they've been hell somewhere for like a week and tortured and then they're drained of blood and then their bodies just pop up somewhere else. And then there was one of the gay Sy victims that turned up in a river or something like that.
Last four, the last four Gaycy victims were all disposed of in southern Chicago in a river, so very much like the Atlanta child murders.
By the way, what do you think, Like, could it be possible for the whole smiley faceing to have gone back even further than we can imagine? Like and some of these victims that they put on, these serial killers Ted Bundy, Gayzy, I don't even think they did it, like some of them, they weren't even in town, Like it's crazy.
Yeah, No, I think you're right, and I think it's an interesting thing. Gaysey was clearly traveling around. One of the people who was going to be a victim who survived Gayzy uh said that he was in the house and saw a door open, So it wasn't Gayzy, So somebody else had to have known. And Gaysey was networked that there was these very uncomfortable connections between himself and the candy They call it the candy Man and the Clown was the documentary. But the Candyman in Houston, Texas,
who was part of this pedophile network. He was connected between a guy whose name I can't remember now, between him Philip Paski thank you Pasky PASDHK or something like that. He who worked for Bundy and also one of the employees of Bundy went on to become known as the Ripper crew, So he was another his name was Gets or Goats, who was like a crew going around abducting women and torturing them the most horrible way imaginable. Definitely
a Satanist, which they conveniently cover up. So I think some of the people who are attributed to Casey, I think Casey was politically connected. He was part of He's an Alderman. He was going to all kinds of jc's and all kinds of like social groups, So I think that there might have been other people involved. It would totally make sense. But he just took the fall.
So I recently listened to The Clown and the Candyman, and I had no idea about this Dean Coral guy that was involved with all the gosh, what was his name, John David Norman or something like that.
The Genesis Group or something Vegas group.
And so there's it's all like interwoven like a web. There was like Dean Coral. Then there was a guy in the documentary she called it the first Pedophile Island or something like that, and I think his last name was Sherman or I'm not, I can't remember. And then this John David Norman guy in Philip Pasky, and when you put all of those pieces together, it just it's too much. And I don't know why we never took them at their word. Like Gacy used to say, there's
other people involved. Bundy used to say there's other people involved, and we were just like, Okay, yeah, sure, there's other people involved.
I think that it's the same kind of phenomenon that happened with Berkowitz. Is like you have the subject, there's this big panic within the local community, somebody gets caught, and then it's done, and so they have a clean cutcase. So it's a lot easier for the police, I think, and the authorities to just attribute it to one person and move forward and saying it's a whole network and trying to wrap it up with a huge network. And I think that, yeah, that's what happens with Franklin cover
up too. This is a massive network. And I think McGowan keyed into that earlier. And there's a really good book that came out recently that's very arrowing, and I think it's kind of an adjunct to program to kill it. I have the CHICKENOK have you heard of that?
No?
Who is well? I don't know his real name, but he goes I can't remember his alias, but it's let me see if I can find it. But it's like basically going over It's like McGowan's book, but more detail of these networked pedophile groups. Oh my guy, Simon Dovey, do O v.
E y, and you read this whole thing.
I skimmed it, but let me see. I wish I could pull it up. Maybe you could pull it up. It's interesting because it's basically like a flow chart of these over It kind of goes into the theme of what we've been talking about.
Let me I have the chicken behind it.
Because it shows these little boxes and float chart like a I don't know what kind of diagram it is. I don't think it's a ben diagram, but just shows how they're all overlapping and connected, much like that Norman guy was was like pre internet. He was like a collector, right, so he's had this kind of collector keeper thing of like the young boys and the names and the past cards and all this stuff.
Let me see if I can share. I just found I have the chicken hawk and it looks like so I found it on that's it, Yeah, Amazon, And it's got Yeah, it's got like this little web.
Show, these webs of connects and connect yeah, and on mine it has really good reviews, like you know, four point five, but you'll just see the different names.
So what are your thoughts on like Dahmer.
Connected, he was onnoperative. He was well known within the kind of gay community, so I think that he whether he was doing it with other people is a is an open question, but he was definitely moving around. It's kind of interesting because he got kicked out of the gay clubs in Milwaukee and ended up in Chicago, probably at this Man's club where in the gay clubs that Barack Obama is a number of.
Gut Yeah.
You can look up the man's country stories pretty disturbing well.
And you know, I just actually was covering a little something about Jeffrey Dahmer in the topic came up that while he was in Germany there was people going missing and weird stuff with that too.
So I don't know murders in Florida as well, so he may not. And Gasey, I think I don't think he had all his murders. He was traveling around. There's a really good like I forgot the name of the YouTube channel. But there's a guy who was a potential gay sy victim in Tennessee. So Gaysey would take road trips and try to find victims too. With the standard m he would bring like one luggage full of porn, another luggage with the like BDSM stuff and do the
same techniques like Coral did. Right, So he learned directly from Coral. Hey do you want to try on these handcuffs? You know, Hey, it's a joke. You can get out of it. And they were done.
So even in that documentary The Clown and the Candyman, she does a great job of connecting everything together, especially with the handcuff trick. And why would those two killers know the same handcuff trick quote unquote, But I had I recently just found out about Dean Coral, and I wonder why he's not made a bigger deal out of.
It's a good question. I think that that dad is a huge bunch of like deaths, like all of them. And yeah, and they had these two kids working for him and they confessed. There's like videos of them together. So it's a disturbing it's a super disturbing story. And just the connections to the stuff, like where else is it happening? And how do you attribute these abductions? And then is this the predicate to the smiley faced killings? Because how similar are those victims to the victims of
the SFK young men college age? Right? So instead of like maybe they're doing some international thing and there's like a psychic I had on my new on my most recent book, and she says they are kind of you know, in whatever she received, how much you want to take it as he with a grain of salt. But she says they're being collected. They're being filmed, much like these guys are being filmed, you know, or I think there was a film maybe in Connection Mists, but like she
thinks that that's part of this whole phenomenon. Is this kind of duck did keep kept for a while, right, and then disposed of like really bad.
So they're so they're making snuff films.
Yeah, that's what she's said.
That makes sense.
Yeah, makes a ton of sense. Right, So go select and it's you know, where's the most vulnerable place a dude walking alone after drinking at a bar, after maybe he got drugged with somebody in there or something. There's a process but the stories are just every story's kind of the same. Sadly about the Smiley based killers, young guy, most half of them are probably gay at a gay bar, acts, strange disappears down the river and yeah, it's still happening like a lot in are Austin.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I keep seeing him popping up randomly and I'll be like, oh, I bet William has seen this one. This is definitely it's hard to keep up.
Like I it would be a literally be a full time job.
Yeah, no, I'm kidding, But that's why I think, like some of these victims, like Gaysey victims and even some of the Bundy victims that were held for a long time and then they turned up later and gay sy five of them in the river. Well after they put Bundy away, like people still kept going missing and bodies kept turning up, and then they would blame it on the Green River killer, or you know, it was the
next killer, the next killer. But honestly, it could be the same group of killers since the beginning, Like I'm talking Zodiac, I'm talking you know, Manson, son of Sam, all.
Of them, You're right, I mean, that's how scary it is. And I think it, like I said, it's convenient for the police, just like it's convenient for the authorities to say these you know, stage drownings are accidents, right, It's very they're looking for a convenient way. They don't want to do the hard work or actually do the thing and actually go, hey, this might be networked type of people. I mean, they did it in the kind of the Ripper crew out of Chicago. This guy gets who has
worked for Bundy. They actually arrested all the people surrounding them and so but sometimes they do get the whole group. But I think, you know, some of these are working groups. There was another guy that I did a research who was a gay serial killer and the book was by macdonnaugh. His name was Craft. There's another kind of guy like Coral who isn't emphasized. You almost never hear about the skuy Los Angeles. Guess how many victims they think he had attributed to him?
One hundred, one hundred victims here, one hundred victims.
And then mcdonna's like, yeah, there's no way he could have done it alone. Because and this is kind of like a process of thinking about the Smiley Face killers that's why I interviewed him. But he couldn't have done it alone because there was one where the victim was tossed from a moving car, so like how could somebody be driving or right, So it's like this, this doesn't
make sense. And the same thing happened with another gay serial killer's name was Eyler in the Midwest, kind of almost like Jeffrey Dahmer Isler A y L e R. He was released to Kill that was the name of the book by Colaric and he she said like he probably was working with somebody else, and the filming and keeping and the BDSM and all that, those elements are all.
There, you know, shut up. Wow. And then there's like the her Baumeister, Yeah, that bridella guy.
Yeah, that's the same thing. They were keeping people right right.
Yeah, So it's like they're getting trained from on high and it's just like trickling down into like all these different networks.
Right right, is in the program to kill also in and out of mental institutions, just like what was his name, Henry Lee Lucas, Right, So Henry.
And otis Tool, Yeah.
Adis Tool, yeah, O T T I s Audust Tool who's a very scary guy. The videos on that guy online, like if you saw him walking down the street, you went across.
The street, Jesus, Yeah, no kidding, crazy looking. Oh, his family was what Satanist who dressed him up like a girl when he was a kid, and.
Like traumatized from the very beginning, Like it's really Gek Robin Ghek was the name of the Ripper killer. That was okay, I was associated with the Who's in program to kill associated with Bundy g e ht But yeah, I mean in a Satanist too, like a stone.
Called Satanist ted Bundy actually when after he was sentenced to death, ended up in the cell right next to Tool. It's just like it's just like they.
Know each other too. Like I've done a thing on Schroeder who was the thing and he like compared himself to Bundy, and Bundy had a suspicious background, like there's research she said he was part of some kind of dark group in the Washington area and people liked to you know, I allege this and it's just so strange. Like the girl he wrote about him knew him and rule.
She's she's something. She's also the first one that gave his name to the police. She's also friends with two of the victims. She also attended some kind of conference that they were having about all these missing girls, but they didn't know it was Ted yet, and then all of a sudden she goes to this conference and like a couple days later, she gives his name over to the Ted squad is what they called it. And I
don't know. Ann Rule actually pops up a lot in the Ted Bundy story, and then she wrote that book. I think it's called The Stranger Beside Me, and she made herself and Ted famous in the process, So I don't know, cash Jen.
I mean, there's weird connections like that. In these serial Killers. Catherine Ramsland becomes friends with Dennis Rader and writes the book about him. She's a PhD student, makes a lot of money, sells a lot of books, becomes famous. Who's one of her students. It's the guy who killed all the people in Moscow, Idaho. Was literally, yeah, the Moscow, Idaho's killer studied under Ramsland criminal criminal.
Wow.
Yeah, No, there's a direct connection between what was his name Ramsland? I forgot his name notes Schroeder.
So he has a I think in German last name the serial killer.
Yeah, the guy who killed the four women of the college aged people in Idaho, the Idaho More Coburger. Coburger studied under Ramsland.
Yeah, So do you think that there are because I've asked myself this question, do you think that there are authentic grassroots serial killers among us? Or do you think that this has all been sensationalized in its networks and its cover ups and it's all I mean, we know about the infamous serial killers, but could there be also an equal amount of like grassroots just crazy psychopathic human beings out there that just want to kill other people.
I think it's a mix. I think it's a mix. I think some of these guys are working together and they all there are only one who gets caught. And I think that there are that one guy Little who's an African American guy who had an incredible body count, probably just hated women. So I think that they're a mixed and I do think that some of these people are programmed to kill. I think that they're clearly the
products of the stuff. One of the interesting things in this book, as he mentions this narrut guy that's not very well talked about, not often talked about ut who kind of spilled the beans in nineteen seventy five. He was in Europe and he's saying, like, we are the O and I the Office of Naval Intelligence is training guys to become program killers and then distribute them through the embassy, you know, places through embassies in the unit, the US kind of network or US Empire network to
carry out contract killings. And a lot of them have criminal records, and it's all over the media like it's it's not like a story. It's a story that they don't talk about. It was covered up and then they denied it, but that paper does exist, and I think that it just shows that there's programs to create this programed killer, like
to dissociate people and control them. And that's so many of these guys have come out of the Phoenix program, are connected to the Free Phoenix program or something else. Shaw Cross, Heydnick was part of this weird dark stuff. So you know, it's hard to say, Oh, Mullins, was these guys who were in Santa Cruz area, I think
it was. There were three guys, and two of them are really strange, and I'd been exposed to large doses of LSD, and they're like they were next to each other, So Ed Kemper and Mullins and this other guy were all next to each other, and the under the aegis of a lot of MKL. This guy lund l u n D is mentioned in Program to Kill who's a big wig kind of behavioral science guy out of Stanford. And for their trials they were kept I think in
San Jose or something away from Santa Cruz. So they're like right next to this whole epicenter of all these other people who you know, got out of jail, or the guys from the Cimbinese Liberation Army, which is nineteen seventy four. Manson's not sixty nine, so they're all around this area. So there is this weird and I've done shows like Vronsky where there's clearly a peak of serial kill that dropped off. It's inexplicable, but one of the
ways you can explain it. There's a deduction you make is that they're connected to these programs, is that a lot of these guys have been literally programmed to kill.
Well, what do you think about? So the ones that you're talking about that we're going down in the Santa Cruz area. It was the same time that kind of in the San Francisco area, they couldn't figure out who the zodiac was, right, and the zodiac was running crazy in San Francisco. What do you think about the theory that like someone like Michael Achino or Michael Achino could have been the zodiac or working with multiple other people to do these.
I think it's pretty good. There's clearly an occulted element there, Like I mean, I can see that markers of the face, the targeting symbol, the letters that are sent out, the smiley face, cross school and crossbone letters that are sent out.
The connection to some of the attorney who they reached out and talked to is very sophisticated, Like this isn't something so it implies a network also of like maybe an initiatory thing, much like the Sons of Sam people have made correlations between the Sons of Sam and the Zodiac is like more of a team effort. I think that it's very evident that the Son of Sam, it wasn't just burkele wit'z he can't talk. But it's pretty
clear that the witnesses are seeing different people. The first hand witnesses aren't seeing a guy to matches berkele Witz's right, think, So I do think that there is something like that. There's an interesting kind of conversation between people the Temple of Set and the head of the Order of Nine Angles where he's saying, like, you guys sit around and
decide to do it. And I think that it's part of the larger program to kill motif, which is the politics is to create social confusion and chaos in society. And then people were freaked out by the Son of Sam, like the whole at that time New York City was like stuck in a crime with but everybody's focused on these random killings, right, so it's created this massive fear and dread, which is like one of the impacts. Like
they say that right at the beginning of it. McGowan mentions this guy Paul Videre, which is painted fear of the most useful tools, And what does the zodiac do maximizes fear, right, the fear of Like that's what people fear the most, is an unexpected instantaneous death. So like death is right around the corner. Ah, you know, that's what people like. Even if you say you're gonna die
in six months, people won't freak out as much. But if they think that and that Osama bin Lauden's going to jump out of a bush and Stabby to death, much like ten to seven, really strange. So you see these weird comed events seven seven, ten, seven, nine to eleven, well or they all have the same component, like you're going to get immediately killed by a moss or all that. So you see that the psychological operation.
Aspect of all and there's so many layers to it too, because with the Zodiac, you had all these people trying to cipher codes and they they it was almost like they made a game out of it. You know, they would turn on the TV try to decipher the Zodiac's new letter in the new code and it they literally made a soap opera out of the Zodiac, like and it's kind of sensationalized though.
It's a really good point. You use that word game because it comes up in a lot of cult kind of environments where they're playing games and it's almost like, I, you know, the Finders was the game caller, the head of the Finders, which is a cult involving many more people than it's publicized, many more important people, but it was pre kind of internet, so it didn't have it doesn't have the same kind of impact because it happened, you know, in the sixties, seventies and eighties and stuff
like that. But the guy's head was called the game caller, you know, so he was playing games with his people, and almost these heads of colts like play games with their own people. That it's Jim Jones or Hubbard or it's like this game playing thing. But so what I think that that's part of it, you know, it's part of kind of like the the dynamic.
I guess as well, you could put it even with the night Stalker. There's this game the Satanist and actually a lot of this goes back to Satanism anyways.
But that's the cover of the book, by the way. I mean, it has this very harrowing picture, but it's basically of a satanic crime work. Guy had a pentagram carved into his chest. That's the cover of Program to Kill. And there used to actually be there was a woman who worked in the San Francisco Police PD who studied satanic crimes like they were happening all over the Bay Area. So there's all kinds of crime that happened around the Bay Area that never hit the news and weren't attributed
to this. So there was definitely this upsurge and the cult crimes around that time. Late sixties and seventies.
Well, what a time to be alive because you have the counter culture movement going on, and you have all this Laurel Canyon stuff with all these musicians. The Laurel Canyon body count is crazy high too, It's like one hundred two hundred people from that, So you know, you have all this counter culture stuff going on, and then you have the introduction of the serial killer and it's
just they hit us so hard in one decade. If you go back and look at it, you're like, how did people even make it out alive?
Like no good point, super scary operation chaos type stuff. It really is incredible because it didn't really happen as much. These kind of random events didn't happen in the forties and fifties, So what right? And that's kind of what people have to figure out, Like so many of these guys did massive amounts of drugs, LSD and stuff. There's all that element to these people and dissociative states, Like I mean, that's kind of interesting how prescient McGowan was.
Like his intro chapter is about dissociation, and he keyed into something that's very way ahead of his time. Again, like he keys into Esterbrooks, who really is the precursor to mk LTRA. Not a lot of people who talk
about this mind control stuff hit Estbooks. They don't emphasize Esterbooks enough as a hypnosis and dissociation from the thirties, guys like this is what And we can go back to the history of hypnotism through Resputant and Mesmer and all these other guys were practicing it back in the nineteenth century. But this guy Estrabook is very well that worked. Like you had conversation with Jaek or Huber and all
this stuff in the thirties. So when you see pictures of jig Or Hoover in the sixties, he's well aware of all of this crazy mind control stuff. And even even like McGowan talks about Lee Harvey Oswald as a mind control subject, and they all fit this weird thing. Like Lee Harvey Oswald was in a hospital for like a month or two for a sexually transmitted disease. That was what they put on his when has anybody ever heard of somebody being in a hospital for that long
for an STD in the sixties. And he's very strange, like he's i mean, his his life, he emulates and it goes all the way up to the present.
Right.
The second guy he tried to kill Trump's what was his name was? Oh, I can't even remember it now, But that guy has this weird background where he's in like the north Shore of Wow, but able to travel around much like Oswald. For Oswald's suspiciously has money to go to Swiss Finland, gets into Japan, gets into the Soviet Union, gets out, travels like it's so strange.
There's this picture floating around of Luigi, that guy who shut it, and he's got like an outfit on that looks just like Lee Harvey Oswald.
Right. They dressed up the both of them like that, the Oswald purp walk well, the cop is in the suit. Yeah.
So do you think he didn't get to choose his outfit?
I think they did it intentionally as an insight.
I thought so too.
I mean, you can pull that picture up. It's astonishing. I don't think that's a mistake at all.
No, no way.
The first guy was crooks who didn't make it. In the second guy, I don't even remember his name. Uh, what's his name? The other guy has all the hallmarks of Ryan Ruth. What's his name? But the interesting thing if you go back and look at David Chapman, right, the alleged killer of John Lennon. He was in and out of a hospital. He supposedly worked as an orally at a hospital.
Jeffrey Dahmer, Wow, crazy.
This guy Ruth was it like literally like a stone's throw, like two or three miles away from the hospital where Chapman worked at and somehow gets these like the money he's like laid on charld payments his his money to his ex wife. He doesn't have a real job. He's making like little houses for people who are homeless, probably not making a lot of money. Somehow can afford to go to Balm Beach and wander around and then go to Ukraine like he's in Ukraine, Like hey, guys, like
that's the port. He's got the whole government line down too, which is you know, the Ukrainians have been oppressed and Zelenski's a freedom fighter. He's out holding his banners like he's a tool of the government. It's incredible, like this guy if he needs to be ah, it's super suspicious. It fits all the Chapman kind of.
Well, wasn't Uh, there was something about sir hands, Sir hand too, like there was something weird about with him.
Same thing in the hospital two weeks. Nobody knows why weird writings. Automatic writing doesn't remember the shooting. The kill shot, according to Naguchi, came from behind RFK, not in front. Uh, there's more bullets than then. We're in the chamber of the gun that sir anser hans, Sir answer, and it's clearly seen going to gun ranges and things like that. Outside of his Southern Carroll, California area. He was seen
in northern cal It's strange times. Weird people, the polka dot addressed woman, just all kinds, I mean, there's just so many suspicious things that all kinds of mk doctors, doctors and psycholotrists, psychiatrists around Sir Answer and after arrest, which is a real giveaway because they all around the same thing happened to Chapman, Patty Hurst, like Patty Hurst had like the big they they brought out the big time CAAA doctors John Jolly and West Martin Orne Singer.
There's like a picture of them with Flee Bailey like all together, like, oh, this is a jolly bunch of people. Knew these are all deep like hardcore you know, government agents like government people. Who knows Jolly and West isn't the strangest places of all times. So you get back to this kind of program to kill kind of mentality and all that stuff. And Patty Hurst is really a
real interesting study in like thought reform, mind control. And that's why they were there is because they put her into basically isolation thing and abused her right and so she goes from the supposed heiress with a lot of money too. I forgot what her chain did. Was it Tanya or something like that? This revolutionary bank robber, Like, how does that happen? Are these guys sophisticated enough to make that happen? It makes you wonder like there was somebody else telling them what to do?
You know, mm hmmmm hmm. Well what do you think about Like, I know we've talked about it before, but we said Satanism is at the base of a lot of this stuff, and so do you think that, let's say, for example, West Memphis three those kids really did that or do you think that they took the fall for it.
I think they were part of a larger network, and I think that there were more people at whatever they were doing in other places. I think that they were one of the kind of in my opinion is that they were probably some of the head people, and Jesse was the one who implicated them but left other people out. I do believe there were other people involved in that stuff. They were networked, and I think they came from a family that were into you know, black whatever occult general
in a general sense. And the like his girlfriend at the time, that's like the one of the weirdest things is she's involved in that stuff too, and her family, like her her aunt was involved in some kind of vampire thing about drinking blood in lah outside of La. Yeah, so how are these going on? Like this isn't a completely different state. So I think that they were just of that ilk. But if you read through the court documents, he's echoes and all these guys are traveling to Memphis.
They live outside of Memphis, the city, but they're talking to people in Memphis, and there's somebody they mentioned as Lucifer, who nobody's ever targeted. There was another guy who talked about the group, you know, and even the police were like making lists. There's lists in the police documents of like other members of the cult like that, they're trying to figure out who these guys are newwork with. So I think that there's a lot And they used to go out to this place called Stone Enge, and it
was groups of people. It wasn't just like those three, So who were the other members of the group. And while weren't they implicated And that's another example of the police kind of getting their perp and that just they enough evidence to get these guys arrested and then they you know, I think they were looking for other things, but they just didn't didn't seem they have the incentive to do a huge roundup. But they interviewed so many people.
There's so many like interviews that aren't in these place. Lame documentaries from Atrio, which are really sham documentaries in my opinion.
But well, you know how people get obsessed with Netflix documentaries and HBO documentaries and by the time let's just pick a random serial killer. Let's say you watch a Ted Bundy documentary. By the end of it, you're one hundred percent convinced that he murdered upward of what they say is could be like thirty, forty fifty. They don't even know, just like you know, countless women, and they sell it to you in a way to where the cases closed, done, solved, no need to look any they're here,
And it's like that. It's true for any serial killer. They just sell you the story and that's what you're made to believe. And when you really start looking into it and finding all these inconsistencies, if you were to just tell a random person like, well, you know, I don't think Ted actually murdered all those girls, It's like, it's like blasphemous. Oh how could you say that, you know he killed all those people. It's so tragic and sad. They don't want to hear about, you know, program to kill.
No, they don't. They don't want to go that far. And I think you have to ask you a question, why why do they just tag Berkwoods. Why don't they go into the process, even though he's mentioned the process in some in one of his interviews. I think in jail so it's too disturbing and the connections and the
crimes that are all associated with these things. Like they want to keep it separate, you know, they don't want them to see this big network, much like more Terry exposed right connect between all the way from east coast
to the west coast. With the death of Arlest Perry on October twelfth, nineteen seventy four, one of the interesting things of Program to Kill is for a guy who supposedly I think he was an atheist, but McCowan, he's into all these dates and stuff, like the occult calendars Crowley's mentioned.
Like he has like Crowley's birthday, Yeah, you know it's yeah, yeah.
You mentioned Curley like twenty times or something like that. But he gets all of these dates and things like that in there, which.
Are really something cult holidays, solstices.
And on March twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, the Spring Equinox, Charles Mills Manson was released from prison. Like, so, yeah, which are really I do believe, like the death of Arlest Perry, it's not a mistake that it was on Croley's birthday.
No, I don't either. In the so I speak about it a little bit, how ritualistic it was. You know, she had the altar candle and all of you know. He actually in the book he links that one back to Leno LaBianca from the Manson because they both had like an intricate carving and people don't really know about our lists that that well, you know, unless you were to read the book. People don't really know about that one.
But I think they ended up the suspect was someone who was in the Manson family, like a disciple that broke off or something like that, something like that.
They call him Manson too. It's been identified as Menser, This guy Menzer was involved in The Cotton. Was a Cotton movie? Was that movie?
The Raydon The Cotton?
Yeah, which overlaps with Rory Raydon, who's also kind of in that environment like New York at that time in the seventies was very dark. There's a lot of dark
stuff going on. But uh, yeah, so I think that that's true in the Latte LaBianca murders, right, there was a fork in, but they they wrote war in a way that the W was on almost like it's something like you'd see on the cover of Program to Kill, where it was a downward triangle and an upward triangle, and so that's the way when Harles Perry was laid out, they took her pants and so her legs were in a triangle and they took pants and made a downward triangle.
So it's almost like a hexagram or something. And there's rumors about her that, I mean, you don't want to go. It was that that she was really on the altar. That's where she really was, and the police told the people she wasn't so that they knew it was like sometimes the police when they see a crime scene, they get out false information. So if somebody really knew the crime, they know exactly how it was staged.
So it was an ultimate act of like sacrilege rumor That's where I mean. It makes sense though, And I have this whole grand theory that was presented to me by someone else, and I just want to get your thoughts about it. So they say that serial killers could potentially be just characters. You know, the man Ted Bundy and the character Ted Bundy could be two separate people. Like the character's name is Ted Bundy, but the real guy who's playing Ted Bundy is his name is John
or something like that. So you can't convict John of murder because Ted Bundy is the one who committed the crime. And so the theory is that potentially a lot of these serial killer victims aren't real at all, and they're all characters in this massive, grand theatrical play. That yeah, what I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Because I think real people die in as a result of
whatever type of project that the writing on us. I do think that innocent people die and they're not just all characters.
I've never heard that, Honestly, I've always thought that they were real. So I would have to look into that. I'll keep my eye out, But I've read out a lot of these details. I've done tons of interviews on Cereal, I mean, Bundy and all these guys. Creech. I just did one on Thomas Screech, another really strange guy around this era who's a hit man and a Satanist who
new Labay like Richard River Meres. But the deaths all seem to be real, you know, it's not like I mean, it would be incredible if the whole story was just one big fiction and nobody really died, and that they faked everything in certain certain of these people's desks, because it seems like there's like family members and stuff like that, Like, for sure, these guys died in the West Memphis three, Like that's for sure, Like their parents are at the
trials and everything like that. So it would be incredible. I mean it would.
They would entertain that. Maybe even some of them could have been I'm.
Willing to entertain it. One of the interesting thing is, like what comes to mind is the Oh it's the I can't remember the guy's name right now, but he says like a lot of those like are some of these people involved in some of these big events are crisis actors?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like Leanna when.
Like this woman who's coming out talking about even today about this bird flu nonsense, She's shown up at weird places.
Yeah, what's going on with that? Anyways, it's just another sigh. Do you think? So?
The timing is incredible, Right before the election, before the new whole new administration shows up, they pull the stunt. But I don't I don't think people are gonna fall.
It was announced by a crisis actor.
Yeah, I think so. Wow my opinion, Yeah, go look her up, like she showed up at least it was either the Boston bombing or something like that. Like some of these people are showing up at multiple different plays like on TV, like are they state assets or what's going on? So those are these are fake? Like I think some of these people are stone called fakes and they just dredge them out or pay for them and train them. And I don't you know, so many of
these people like are agents of influence. They're not real authentic things, and so much in the old media really are agents of influence. Like I was very naive, like thinking, well, these people had normal careers and they took a journal and journalism degree. Now these guys were brought up and trained and put in the right place and me it made to become agents of influence, fake social media presence. Everything's fake about them because they're being propped up by
either a wealthy person or by the government. And there's a lot of them, Like they surround Joe Rogan like it's incredible, like whoa years a rounded by like really heavy intel, dark agents, dark propaganda's black propagandists. And that's really incredible because you see the movement from the traditional media to this kind of newer media, and it's it's scary.
Well, they they actually promote Joe Rogan, Like.
Why why why is he getting Why is this natural? Is it because he's a good medium for their voice? Right? So these very I'm not going to name their names, people will know these names. They're very well known. But Joe Rogan gets promoted because he lets them use him as a kind of antenna for their ideas without questioning him. Munch. That's that's very telling. How does Joe Rogan come in? Like he's obviously very clever, but how does this guy
become the number one podcaster? Like? I think it's his background, But I've done I've done a show called There's Something Funny About Joe Rogan and it's kind of like it's close friends. There's a lot of occultism there. Really, Yeah, there's not that much of a separation between some of his friends and Damian Ecles.
Yeah you didn't know, William, you're killing me.
No, that guy who he just had on with the whole el Elf outfit, I can't even remember his name right now. He had this guy on the I think it was called Midnight Clomax was his show, and Damian is on there he's promoting him, And then they had an interplay. Somebody sent it to me, and it's like, uh, oh, man, if he was unjustly committed, you should get some money and pay out. Like he was a sympathetic take on Eccles.
And it's interesting too because Eckles, like they did two hours of Eccles on Tim Poole, who's friends with Rogan, and they did the same thing. It was just a complete joke. I called a colossal l in the culture war. Gosh. I wish I could remember. This guy's name is supposedly Comedian. But they also Eccles his close friends with Amanda Knox. There's pictures of them together, and Amanda Knox was on Rogan and he never asked. Rogan didn't ask for any
incisive questionestions. He just actually let her walk all over him. It's very interesting because he's not always passive. Sometimes he fights back and pushes back, but in that case, he was just like, oh, yeah, you've been un She was convicted of colonia. She was convicted of the I think the Italian version of defamation, throwing the black guy under the bus, like she was trying to like literally blame
the black guy. And I don't think she's ever paid him. Yeah. So, I mean I've got pictures of Eccles, and I mean all these characters like Douglas is mentioned in this book and in Program to Kill and Eccles and Douglas and Berlinger and on this and what's her face? Amanda Knox altogether I called it the poor Horsemen of the Apocalypse. What yes, Oh yeah, no, it's bad.
Oh god, Well what do you think about people like Alex Joe Jones?
Right, I mean there's a problem there too, Like I'm telling you, these people are influence agents. Ah what was the guy's name? Now, I'm just gonna like, shoot, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's people who know more than me. There's a problem with Jones too. I mean this that's it gets really dark, like these are h.
Mm hmmm.
Show that's bothered me to figure out what this guy's name was Midnight something, and I mean it's midnight special?
Was it on? Joe Rogan?
The guy's name I forgot. He did some show. It wasn't Midnight Climaxes, Midnight something else.
And it was a comedy show supposedly.
M you said, let me see if I can find it. Let me see if I can find his name. It was a recent recent guest, Duncan Trussell. Ah, Okay, Duncan Trussell was on December twenty fifth for Christmas. But this guy did a show with Damian Apples, Damian Apples.
Oh my God, besties.
Yeah, Duncan Truss Damian that he had him on a show twenty twenty Midnight Gospel was the name. And then and he was on a show called Damian Eccles aka fishpool Man.
So that you got all these weirdos hanging out together. And then you know, anytime I tell somebody I have like a conspiracy theory podcast or something like that, they're like, oh, like Joe Rogan, Like he's.
The staple, He's the staple. Wow, because he's doing a terrible job. I mean, the term the conspiracy theory is just like a joke term. Like nothing I talk about is theoretical. I do a lot of speculation and make connections maybe, but like you can look all this stuff up. So why are people doing real investigative journalism, that's the
real question. And why why is the public accepting these talks like they're real investigative journalism when they're not, Like the real investigative journalists are very few, and a lot of the ones who really get it, they who are real investigative journalists, like the guy who did Gary Webb recently. I think it was his death, Like you get the worst, like they come after you if you're not part of
the real group, like whoa like it's it's it can be. Yeah, you're alone because most of these other people they're covered they like I mean, like for example, I'll just use one example. He's been on Ruban Ben Shapiro his best friend or his buddy. Is that Yahoo? Right, So these guys are connected. They're gonna tell the story of ten to seven like it wasn't a black ath mm hmm.
I mean it's dangerous too because they're so influential to so many people.
And I can't believe people trust these guys.
I'm sorry, I know, I know, I know, I know. They even put like their health in everything, every aspect of their life in the hands of these people.
Don't Rogan has a health thing, and it's I know, I know he's a macho guy and he does MMA and you know, so this is almost like the Hugh Hefner in a way of our generation, Like you have to was the kind of model like, oh he's got the babes and there's good looking chicks and we're living the you know, lifestyle. I think that he was a great influencer tied to Kinsey, which is very disturbing, but the tie to Crowley. So then you have Rogan like pictured, you know, doing the cornudo with the grandson.
Of uh huh and a big time UFO exponent like right behind him is the triangle with the UFO would just bring you a cultural thing.
So he's on board with that. That side out that's a I mean, I've done shows on that.
I don't believe in U and the UFO thing. I don't think it's I mean, that's just the most bizarre stuff that I've seen people start getting on the proof right right.
Show uf you every picture they bring up or the guy who was also on Rogan from Blink one eighty two DeLong like he should the frisbee on there, like it was real like for this, come on, this is the new religion. Though, this is the new religion they're they're they're promoting and is on board with the whole like uh D m T and ayahuasca stuff. This is the new drug era.
So.
Why is this that? Why is that out there? Why is he? I mean, the guy's brought the bill dollars is incredible.
And I used to watch him on Fear Factor and I thought he was just a stupid guy who hosted TV shows. You know, Now he's like one of the most influential people on the planet.
He is the most influential. He and the bro podcast helped get Trump over the finish line. Like all those guys jd Vance who I don't even know what his real name is, and Trump were on those shows. It was Rogan, Dylan and Theovonne, like very influential shows. Those are what pushed kind of the men like, oh, we got to get out there because what's her face wouldn't go on those shows. She can't really talk extemporaneously anyway.
But yeah, so I think, I mean this this was changed world history in a lot of what it's unbelievable influence world history, these kind of podcasts with not a lot of well, like I said, it's just the same thing we're talking about, how much influence is behind the scene influencing these guys.
Yeah, and it's like you said, there's not a lot of independent journalism out there, I would consider myself to be at least trying to some degree to put some pieces together.
Me too, Me too.
And before we wrap up, because I know we've been on for about an hour, I do have to ask you one more thing about Program to Kill that I'm curious about, and it is the chapter on John Benet. So recently John Ramsey has come out and he said there's this new break in the case and they got new evidence, and he's going on all these talk shows to talk about it. And I think you and I would both agree that they're never going to solve that because we know what really happened to John Benet.
Yeah, I think it was Cyril Wett said that she was being abused. There was evidence to arrest right there. So how does that key into like some kind of murderer outside of the family. What's going on? So then problems with that case. The thing is is that he's.
One of the things about McGowan and why he will stand the test of time is that he's his analysis is almost always right, like the King into Esterbrooks and seeing in this darker pattern of going on, dissociative states and this operation cast and all these Cie doctors and the questions, like I think that he was right about John Bay too, and there's really I mean they had this new documentary on Netflix too, right, and it's like.
The one that's blaming the brother.
Yeah, well no, I think that that one they got sued. That was a different one. There's a more recent one that just came out, but I think I don't know that album.
It might be I think I might have saw it actually on HBO or something like that. And yeah, they're all they always pointed outside the family, right or the little brother did it or like something ridiculous like that. But it's like, was the little brother rapinger? Really? That's because it's like you said that the I guess it was the autopsy report there was clear signs of sexual abuse. So I mean, are they going to tie that to the little brother? That's it just doesn't It never makes sense.
None of the piece is at up.
Dude. Ciarrah Weckt was sadly he passed away, but he did such great work even on The Spiley Face Killers too, Like one of the victims was Dakota James because he's in Pittsburgh, was in Pittsburgh. But another guy, you got it right all the time, like like super bright guy, Like it's really hard to get a JD or like
past the bar and stuff. But he had a bar degree and a medical degree, but like he I mean, you have to take him kind of facebaut So all this other propaganda and all this other strange stuff, you have questions about it. What's your take on.
John Maney, Well, I think that her parents were involved in some crazy stuff. I mean with the access graphics thing in John Ramsey, he got, you know, a huge bonus for Christmas, and then I don't know, the handwriting matches. Patsy and their friends, the Whites, they're into some weird stuff and they had their kids like in these weird
pageant circles and stuff. And the pageant thing on its own is enough for me to think there was something else going on, because if you actually go and look, there are no record of those pageants ever existing outside
of John Bennet. So it's like this underground pageant world stuff and like the kittie porn stuff, and you know the Wonderland raids, Like a couple of people turned up with pictures of John Bennet during the Wonderland I'm telling you, William, it's it goes deep and like for them to keep drudging it up and like, oh, John Ramsey's back in the news again because they've got this break in the case.
It's like they're never going to solve that. They're just like bringing it up to remind you, Oh, look at this little girl and it's unsolved. And I don't even know. It's just a big joke, a big game, like I said before, But it's.
These networks, like we started off, mc martin was probably network. There's all some of the right right, right, and even I think McGowan mentions tunnels had Opera interviewed that guy Steiner, Like some of that stuff is verified and crazy weird stuff was going on, weird magical hats like and then it's like that you get into trauma based mind control and SRA and it's like that they're traumatizing the kids, right,
and they've been proved like some of these were. There was one it was the witch hunt narrative, right, I can't remember the name, but the book, Like some of these have been verified. So like some of the stuff, like these child care things were the opposite of care, child uncare places there was one and I think it was Fuster was his.
Name, Yeah, Frank Fuster Country Walk Babysitting.
Yeah, you know they bust like they had the evidence and they were. They'll deny it and call it satanic panic or something like that or have some turn.
But explain to me how the Country Walk Babysitting Service was the subsidiary of Walt Disney Company. Like, you can't tell me that's not by design, you know, that's really so. But anyways, William, thanks so much for joining me. I've really enjoyed our conversation. And if you could just let the listeners know if they haven't already, you know, dove into William Ramsey Investigates. It's one of my favorite podcasts. But where can they find it?
Uh, you can find it anywhere our tunes, Spotify. I've done a lot of shows on kind of mind control and things like that. I had like little carve out called the d Hypno Program, and I cover a lot of the stuff like this is real stuff like Esterbrooks that's mentioned in this book, some of these other case and I've got some kind of on my batter circles I'm trying to get out and that are on the subject. I think it's important to understand, and it goes all
the way up to the present. This kind of kind of take a shot at Trump has all the indicators and some of these other guys, this guy Luigi whatever. It's very strange that somebody would take such a radical turn who had a very promising life. I mean, you are the the valedictorian of your private school, so this
is kind of like an elite thing. How does somebody go from that and goes through this behavior modification or behavioral change into and I don't even know, how would you know that the CEO is walking.
Out of a hotel at seven right?
That's the thing that's like, why doesn't anybody ask that question? I would be like, if you would think the killer would be like, I'm gonna get him because he's going to this meeting. I know he's going to be there for you know, so I'm gonna wait outside this meeting or whatever. How does he know he's leaving at seven o'clock? Anyway, So there's a lot of real questions. So a lot of the stuff if you look deeper, who gets kind of disturbing, So you can look into that. It's William Ramsay,
gotta say it's all. My books are on Amazon five books, and then you can also watch them for free on my Patreon.
William Ramseys Well, thank you so much, William, I really appreciate it, and thanks to all the listeners out there. We will catch you on the next one.
City Whom is it pretty and the whole for me, Whom in the darkness, Whome on the highway, Whome is in.
That way, who will never be.
Burn out? Stay?
But after night.
I can't say is a due put up a fake?
I'm live, a locking, a love, devil his due. I'm burn burn you, I'm murder out burning you.