LAUREL CANYON 2.0

Baby, you're my game statue.

It takes a lot of tangle.

You don't mess with me. Mess with me, baby, you're a gangstato.

Ohuch, baby, you're a game statoo. For good warning, this podcast is designed to take you outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality Listening discretion.

Is a vibe.

The fellas.

This ain't my first time.

At the rodeos.

M H.

Great, welcome to the occult rejects. This episode, I got the occult reject mad scientist Lisa joining me. I got Mike, and I got my boy Thrash. And tonight very special guests. Uh, you know one hasn't been on in a while. We got my man Colby back. It's been a hot minute. I always love having them on. Always had good chats,

Sure, I do Conspiracy play Time, which is pretty sporadic these days. That's anywhere You're lucky if you can find it on YouTube sometimes. But Disinfobation is the weekly shit talking show I'd do with my buddy Dusty, and that one's bi weekly, and that one you can find everywhere but Apple and YouTube.

Awesome. And I think I have your website and in the description already. That's good enough. Oh I need to update this, Okay, I'll let the other links in if you want after the show. And Julia, just in case people here joining us don't happen to know who you are yet, can you please let everybody know what your deal is?

Yeah?

I think I'm becoming better known on your show, just for how many f bombs I drop every couple of words. But I'm Julia fucking Cosmic Beach, and I'm everywhere besides fucking YouTube. And I'm really happy to be here tonight talking about the Laurel Canyon because, like you said, it's one of my favorite topics by far, and Colby's as well, and I can't wait to get into it.

Do you monetize on YouTube? Because she just really screwed that up for you. Sorry, they have like a ten minute rule or something. What everyntes no, like the first ten minutes any profanity you get demounted.

Oh, I have no idea. I'm sure I've screwed that up myself already.

My fucking bad.

Yeah. No, we're good, We're good. I'm not really worried about YouTube anyway. So if it happens, it happens. Uh, you know what, we'll go around the well, we'll go with you. Colby, What was it that got you like really into a Laurel Kenyon because I know you've been into that for a long time as well.

Yeah, I mean it was kind of like the revitalization of like psyop conspiracy theory for me. I was really into that when I was younger, And I remember I was picking up a friend in Portland and he had just seen Dave Matthews live at the Gorge and he was on acid, and he told me a story about how bad his trip was because he just realized that he was at like a cult ritual and Dave was leading it and he wasn't even a Dave Matthews man, but he said the whole time he just felt like

But we both loved the music too.

Yeah, And that's the thing is I almost think it's cooler the way that it really happened. It's like more mysterious than like, oh, a bunch of fucking stoned hippies just made some good music, and then when you see what was really going on there, it's a way more intriguing story.

But I love CIA music. It's like the best shit out there. I grew up on Laurel Canyon music. It's my favorite fucking music. Seat there I go again. Sorry, And I actually when I read strange, strange scenes, and then I went over to his blog and he has a great website. It's called an Uninformed American or something like that or I can't remember what it is.

Yeah, but he has a blog.

And you can go on there, and like he has a bunch of different topics, but Laurel Canyon is one of the blogs on there, and he has like pictures and it's kind of easier to read than the book because he just kind of does like cliffs notes on the blog. And so I by the time I got done reading the book and then reading the blog, my

No, I think he got Lookout Mountain Studios.

Oh he got? Is that what he got?

Okay?

Is anybody in here now because we argue about that.

Okay, yeah, yeah, No, it's.

A leto got Lookout Mountain.

Yeah, okay, Well I'm pretty sure somebody.

Did you guys see that comment earlier about the log cabin about Vince and Neil.

Oh yeah, plane crash.

Yeah.

I don't know if that's true or not.

It's said that it's a head on collision. I just looked it up, like the air. There's a collision in the air of.

Another plane.

Oh yeah, another one that I know crash before the podcast, Like I was, oh my god.

Yeah, yeah, we're not supposed to be flying everybody, dude, I'm not.

Flying fucking anywhere.

There.

They're gonna know and they're gonna kill us.

So the web, the website just really quickly. Julia was a Center for an Informed America.

Yeah, there you go, there you go. So on that website he's got stuff on like Abraham Lincoln. He's got stuff about the fake moon landing. He's got stuff about Laurel Canyon obviously, and the Boston Marathon bombings, so it's just a really cool place you can go to check out a lot of his work. He doesn't actually have a blog about program to Kill, though, which surprises me because that's like one of my favorite books of all time.

Cool all around guy. Really yeah, my hero.

Actor, right, actor, Very versatile, diverse.

Polio.

There you go.

Did you guys read Chaos? No?

I did not.

No, go ahead, honey, this is your's time to shine. No.

I just I think it's kind of coming out lately that that guy's a gatekeeper of sorts, and I'm busy. I'm extremely disappointed by that, But I also I'm not surprised because he said just enough to let everybody tie the pieces together. Like with the Jolly West Tate Ashbury Free Sex Clinic thing. He would just show you and then you would be the one to go.

Oh.

So when Charles Manson knew Jolly West, maybe, but see, I don't know. He's making a Netflix series of it. A guy I liked interview on my podcast told me that last time I talked to him, and I.

Mean, he's making a Netflix series.

That's what I got.

It's going to be fucking dog shit.

Well we'll see, but I mean I think who's making the Netflix search.

Was making the netflixers.

Netflix is doing the adaptation of the book.

From what I understand, I don't want to see it, but we'll have to write to verify.

I mean, at least start it.

Okay, But you saw what they did with Waco. They just fuck everything up.

See I've been saying like that whole title alone, chaos is just added chaos to the case, and it just made it more convoluted. I get there's a lot of interesting stuff that came out, like you said, but it just made it even more confused. You had to go all the way back to the beginning again. And then yeah, it's literal chaos. And then he's coming out with the second one, which is going to be even now. I don't even know that new Sam's coming out.

I think the most valuable part of that book for me was how he tore apart Bogliosi's narrative because a lot of people take that face value, and there was there's nothing real in Helter Skelter, the whole theory he lays out. In my opinion, I.

Don't think it was. There was anything to that at all.

Yeah, And the fact that it shows that he was arrested on parole so many times and release does I mean it shows you that he was being let out, He's being watched. There's no way you get charges like that on parole, especially back then you're back in.

That's it.

You had, Like he had good interesting points in the book, like about like the parole officer and how the parole officer was like kept helping him and helping him and helping the kids and even helped Yeah, very odd for sure.

And then the which I forget, which beach boy it is that died? Oh Dennis Dennis, Are you sure?

Yeah, he's one that dope for his car keys and kept swimming down to grab him until he died.

Yeah, because he said he was going to write a book, right and he was going to say what was really going on with Manson.

I'd like to have a conversation with Neil Young about Charles Manson if if there's someone left alive, because he was all about it.

Neil Young sucked his dick hole though he loved that guy. He loved Manson.

That's an interesting feat to pull off.

He was doing it, he loved him. He would say like, oh, he's so talented. Look at to check this guy out. So, I mean, if he would be honest about it, yeah, I doubt he would because he was also a vaccine pusher saying he was going to take a ship off Spotify.

And the creepy Karpis is the one that supposedly taught Manson guitar in prison, the mob guy, they were like sis and stuff.

So yeah, the beach Boys actually stole some of his ship, and it's kind of all right. I think I think it would have been better than a lot of the people that he was hanging out with. Oh yeah, I mean it was. It would have been more like velvet underground type ship.

Kind of has a good voice and everything, and the Beach.

Boys and all them.

They had studio musicians. Anyways, it was if you it was of all about the charisma anyways.

I mean the Birds and all those bands could barely even play the instruments.

Oh yeah, it was direct crew.

Yeah, And I mean I think they all learned along the way. I think that's where the doors stand out. And I think whether that music was written by them or not, they actually played it. They played it in the studio. They'd bring in a bass player. Ray Man Zeric was probably one of the most talented musicians of that era. There was an instance in Amsterdam where Morrison was so fucked up that he passed out before the show. He wandered onto the stage when Jefferson Airplane was playing

He wrote a lot or not.

Manz Robbi Krieger, he wrote most of their radio hits.

I that one.

Well, sometimes they would like they'd like go into they would have to like almost improvise with Morrison because he would go in like trances and he would take like a two to three minute song and turn it into like twenty minutes, and he for his age. It's odd just the words and the stuff that he's saying and talking about when you listen to the live performances, like.

Well, you know, a lot of bands back then, Grateful Dead did that with their space and their drums. You had a lot of jam bands that really kind of was doing with the Doors.

Well, the Doors were kind of like a jazzy jazzy jam band when they were alive.

Yeah, And I do think that a lot of that going to.

Do, especially in the later years. But I happened to think Morrison was acting the whole time and did really become a fucking bloated drunk because of what he was doing to America's youth. I mean, he'd scream at the crowd, you're all.

A bunch of slaves, fuckers of.

The One of the things that we had Nick and I had done a dive into Empedocles, which was an ancient philosopher, and one of the things that comes up out of there is the discovery of I am a hexameter or hexameter. It's a type of poetry that it's like a six stanza type thing. And back in the day, only oracles from Delphi spoke in hexameter, and that if it didn't happen in hexameter, then it was considered not to be authentic to have been divinated from the oracle.

Yeah, and who was teaching him do this shit?

That's also mentioned in American Horror Story season covin which I keep trying to tell y'allo.

We had a guy on We had a guy on Whole Wild that covered Jim Morrison and he went into some stuff where you like he said he was like very young age and like went to some specific library. Oh oh oh oh yeah, yeah, I'm not exactly sure where it was. It might have been in Washington where he went to some like specific libraries, like young kid to take out some book that was like pretty much like occult stuff. And then we were like, how did you know?

Then?

Yes, the internet to tell you that the book was there.

So they said that, like, his dad was stationed in LA and they made the trip to Washington when he got transferred, and on the way to DC, they stopped at an area in north New Mexico, and Morrison claims, at the age of three years old, he felt that the spirits of the native people who had passed away on an accident that had happened at Los Alamos Laboratory entered him and never left. And I had asked Paul, I was like, did he stop at Los Alamos? Was his dad affiliated with Los Almos?

Why?

That's pretty damn specific. And I do know that Los Alamo's laboratory they did use Native hands to build the stuff, and so it would almost beg the question in passing, did they, you know, stop and Courier, I don't know whatever. And so he did make a stop there. And we do have significant people that went to Los Alamo's Ranch school, like WILLIAMS. Burrows and some other people with that ended up becoming huge prominent figures later in society for them

Do you think that there's like ritualism involved and like the CIA part is like separate.

Or well to tie to tie in the books and the LSD. When it was the year before Morrison was joining the Doors, he actually had a storage unit and he only had his books in the storage unit, and he literally lived on the roof and ate oranges from the orange tree and supposedly tripped acid every single day on that roof, and he he supposedly would see his mom in the moon every time he would trip, and he had almost like a sexual fantasy for his mom, and he almost had like a hatred.

For his dad.

Yeah, the lyrics of the end, I mean, and they touched on that pretty pretty well in the dolliver Stone movie and also what Lisa was talking about with the Indian stuff that's in the Doors movie. Morrison also mentions it in The American Prayer the Live Poetry album, and he claimed it was a car crash, but the way Lisa's talking about it is more intriguing to me. I've never gotten Yeah, I've never heard.

About that before. But do you feel like it's do you feel like did ant aspect of this? And I'm just playing Devil's advocate because we weren't there, but we do know who his father was, and we do know about the Laurel Canyon and what they were pulling on

In my opinion, well a lot of that stuff could be true. Like I don't think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater in his past because he was gifted.

He was You don't think it's sensationalized.

Of course it is. I mean, I love Slash hate the Doors movie the Oliver Stone made. I think it's a great movie, but maybe twenty five percent of it's even slightly true.

One thing I did think was weird, and you know, me and Lisa had I think she had agreed with me. I'm not saying like I did make me think the story is false per se. Maybe just stuff missing. But my opinion, a three year old coming out and saying a lot of that stuff or remembering that stuff from three years old is like a little like really, like you really remember that much detail that you were going through Los Ella's three years.

Old, right, or maybe somebody told him that, no, no, no, But just the whole fact of Los Alamo's ranch itself in and of itself was a huge deal in terms of a connection. Like the guy who started Los Alamo's School Ranch School before Oppenheimer got there, because Oppenheimer kind of kicked it all off with Los Alamo's. I mean, all the creditor goes to him in terms of, you know, the building and the construction and the upbringing and all

I think. Is he one of your favorites from the Laurel Canyon.

H Not not particularly. I mean yes, but I think there's some other ones that I really Eric Clapton was good, but I really like the females, the like Jody Mitchell that really kind of like fades away into the you know, the limelight or whatever, more dark and twisty.

Did you like like the Mamas and the Papas or anything.

I did like them. I did like them. I like their music. But I think the story of like with Joni Mitchell, I think was very interesting. How she shows up and everybody's completely floored and fascinated by her. That Eric Clapton, you know, take his eyes off of her because of her voice. And the thing is that Joni Mitchell was brought over from Florida, and they all knew each other, every single one of the people that lived in Laurel Canyon. That was another thing when we talked

That's kind of how I thought, and a lot of those guys were on strange trips as young people traveling around margin a lot of different places, traveling around, and then they all start showing up. Right as the war is about to get kicked off and the anti war movement's happening, is when they all start showing up.

But yeah, for no reason whatsoever, because the Laurel Canyon was not a music scene. The major music scene was like Memphis, where else, like New York, New York, Chicago. Yeah, it wasn't fucking there wasn't anything going on in the Laurel Canyon. They just started migrating there for un explained reasons literally.

Well, and Vito Pulkas is another interesting on the U because he had the freaks that would show up at these concerts and a lot of people hadn't seen anything like that before. So that was mainly, you know, that was the big attraction of a lot of these shows in these small LA clubs was these freak freaky hippie chicks dancing. And the guy that orchestrated that, I mean, his son died when he was like he's like three or four.

Yeah, go to poly and he.

Was replaced by Bobby Bousella and a Kenneth Anger film, like this guy actually made it okay to go to one of these shows where the musicians really sucked and you would just it was just became a big party. And I mean in the fifties you didn't really have that, like it was just about the music really in the dancing.

But do you remember what I always say about like the plane crash with like Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper and all those fuckers on it. That was like the ending of an era for the counterculture scene to take off, because that was the last of that generation of like intent kind of like puppy dumb music and then all over and after that playing crass hippie, don't shape pits, don't wear out all, don't take birth control

Yeah, hippie was invented right there in those clubs, right there by Laurel Canyon and complete, complete invention. And like you said, it was freaks they wanted to go. People would show up for the freak aspect of it, and they didn't care how shitty the music was.

So one thing.

Two things actually so Morrison and not you know, it sounds like I'm just suck on Morrison. I apologize to the chatting to y'all. Morrison got a degree in cinematology, sorry, cinematography from UCLA, which would be a liberal arts type college, right or the department, right, Usually you have them kind

I'm not familiar with that, are you.

I didn't know about the guy I know about the club.

Let me look up the name of the Troubadour A second Alexander Douglas Weston.

Oh, that sounds like a suspicious name.

He was the owner of the Troubadour.

Alexander what.

Alexander Douglas Doug Weston And he was the owner of Troubadour And it was located at ninety eighty one Santa Monica Boulevard Western But I was initially a coffeehouse.

Was it?

But like.

I don't was it on the Sunset Strip Santa Monica? Santa Monica is that close?

I mean, it's it's all close down there, depending on traffic, but I would Yeah, there's like three clubs that were kind of featuring these bands, and the.

Freaks were at some club on Sunset Strip.

Well there was there was the Whiskey Go Go, Yeah, that's what it was, and the Troubadour. I don't I'm blanking on the other one, but you know, in the beginning, it was kind of crazy because the log Cabin was like a kind of a hangout spot where Zappa and I mean this is really close to the manson Slanes too. I mean it all links together. But Frank Zappa, Mama Cass and one that nobody even really talks about that's one of my favorites is Captain Beefheart. He kind of

Blocked them up and dehydrated then instead play.

This music, yes, and it was like real weird off the wall music. One of the I think it was the drummer escaped during the recording sessions and he ended up. I think he came back out of guilt or something.

Oh my god.

Not not only that, the bass player who also was the bass player for Zappa for a while. I can't remember his name right offhand, but he's actually a like a sexual predator. Like he's had cases against him since the seventies and I think he's even back in prison again.

Well, he deserved to be dehydrated and something.

When he was a child, he was a child prodigy, and there was like a lot of mystery behind the teacher and everything, and they've actually there's actually been a lot of information that's come out about the guy that taught him how to sculpt when he was a little kid. And then he actually became really good friends with Zappa in high school, and then he was in the Zappa band, and then he separated from that and started the beef Art Captain beef Art.

Yeah.

And wasn't Zappa kind of the main producer of his like launch into it?

Yeah, he produced and that was Cooper. Yeah.

I was just gonna say those were his two brand children really exactly.

Yeah, didn't zapA grow up Edgewood Arsenal Well.

That's where his dad worked. And funny because you get Morrison's dad at the Gulf of Tonken, and then you have Zappa's dad making the chemical weapons that they were going to use.

John Phillips dad fucking I mean Jackson Brown's dad and someone else that people forget about John Denver, who is definitely Laurel Canyon and his dad was some high up motherfucker. What was he a captain at Roswell Army Airfield?

I think he was a force Yeah.

Roswell literally, and then he goes on to be on the Board of Governors for NASA for many years. He's responsible for the first citizens space flight that hit the Challenger. That's John Dinver's fucking idea.

And then it I mean, whether or not.

You believe those people actually died, it's just as fake as everything else that came out of the Laurel Canyon. But I mean John Denver was friends with Mama Cass and all of them. I mean, look, Denver was a sharpshooter during the Korean War. Thank you, Evanna. I didn't fucking know that. That is some good information to know.

I never heard.

I never heard that.

That's another one from Crosby was one of the more interesting ones to me because I think a lot of these guys were just like useful idiots. But then you had people at Crosby who probably had a hand and orchestrated the whole scene.

His family literally goes back to the Declaration of Independence.

A pretty important character. He's I don't think maybe directly tied to Laurel Canyon, but but Bill Graham, the promoter, he had like the Phillmore East, he had the Fillmore West. He was basically the guy that started the Grateful Dead. He started Santana, he started Quicksilver Messenger Service, all the San Francisco bands, Jimi Hendricks, all the same stuff.

So you see Raked all those bands as you just mentioned. Though playing live they are known for going into like weird jam jam sessions, all three of those. All those people do.

But do you think it almost kind of like brains one for.

The Velvet Underground, did that too? Love?

You know the the acid test, the original acid tests where the Grateful Dead was just the house banned and they started up there in northern California. They worked their way down every basically every night to a different area where they got all the way down to Watts l A. And every night they just dripped acid and uh, they

Yeah, I'll answer that last comment about the police, because yeah, it's uh yeah, the Copeland brothers and then I mean they all they had like three major record labels. It was the CIA, the Irs, and I don't remember the third one. But McGowan in his prologue as if maybe he was planning on doing a Laurel Canyon esquees out of the eighties, and the Copeland thing is huge. I think that one, like somebody should actually write that book because it's just as intriguing. I mean, Laurel Canyon formula

The comments are on fire, and somebody cleared up that thing about John Denver too. They said it was a rumor.

It's like how mister Rogers had all these kills and tats being I remember believing that when I heard it.

Well, didn't, but didn't. So we actually interviewed a guy, his name is John Gusty, and he said that John Denver.

He thinks he's trans.

It's trans. That John Denver is a woman.

Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie. The next time we had that plan, I don't remember what song it was, but I was like, that could easily be a chick. I'm not saying I believe it.

He's small and he has small hands. I do love John Denver, though, did he say he said somebody else from the Laurel Canyon didn't He.

He thinks a lot of people are trans.

Maybe my grandpa, my grandpa. We said Rod Stewart was.

Is he still alive? I was gonna say we should get him in on one of these damn it.

You elks was kind of small. Jackson Brown definitely could be trans, and his dad was in the oss, so he's a trans Nazis.

What do you think, like overall, what do you think was the purpose of like Lower Canyon was that, like you think, it was a bunch of different things going on. It was everything was tied into each other.

Can I go first? I think that they were running the counterculture movement at the same time with the serial killer movement, because they the main the first serial killers came out of the sixties around the same time all this Laurel Canyon stuff was going down, and they were like forcing independence on women and telling him to get

The rice and then the beef is.

Programmed to kill, right with the serial killers. But then there's other layers, right like the nacho cheese, and you keep going. But I think it's it was just part of like a multi layered psychological operation because they affect the culture and then it's so easy. It's like Colby said, they just repeated it throughout time with new serial killers

Well, I think it is a layer of things. You got to talk about like Gordon Wasson going down to Mexico with the Time magazine article. The same time Timothy Timothy Larry's doing this thing coming out of Hartford with the LSD stuff. He admitted he was a CIA guy like way before he died. And then you got to take into the Bay areas going on around then too. It was like, yeah, you can control culture, but you

Well, it went from like literally like Buddy Hawley to fucking.

Who have canas you're talking about your.

Oh yes, well, you know something else that people don't talk about in relation to the Laurel Canyon is that with the serial killer movement thing with me andson coming out of California Zodiac, I mean out of California, there's also the fucking Black Dahlia, which isn't necessarily part of the sixties.

Oh, Lisa, you know about this, right, Yeah. So the whole forty seven nineteen forty seven, you know Roswell, you have a switchover from OSSCIA, you have the creation of the Air Force Division of the military. You also have Crowley dying in December. The main event that's been forty seven at the very beginning was in January was the Black Dahlia death. It kicked it all off, and I think it was one of the most publicized deaths and almost again a traumatizing way to traumatize the public was that.

And if you look into who was probably responsible for that, it does go back to the Laurel Canyon because because the Hodel guy, right, George Hodell, his daughter later became friends with Michelle Phillips right from the Mamas and the Papas, So it does tie back to Laurel Canyon. But I mean, okay, I feel like if there's anything that's like CIA or you need to look into it some more, it'll be on an episode of Ghost Adventures. And fucking Nick knows.

This because we talk about it all the time.

If you want to know some sketchy ass shit, Zach Began's will show up with a freaking EMF detector and he went to George Hodell's house in the Laurel Canyon and was like, oh, he was incestuous with his daughter and all that, And I'm like, of course he shows up there like that's perfect, But I do think that it was probably him, and he was incestuous with his daughter. A lot of the weirdos out of the Laurel Canyon

Oh there's many and.

They were all just running train on their own kids. The Oh no, wait, no, that was.

The hotel. He would He would even let like when he had house parties like at the like celebrities and stuff, have sex with his daughter and everything, and then the house was like a Mayan temple yep, yep, and so the and she was like it ties into the house they found like the black Dollia's body, like in the same kind of concrete bags that they had at the house that was used during construction.

I don't know what this comment is about the Layton family. If you read Dave McGowan's blog, there's a whole section just on the black Dahlia. And after you read that, after you see the evidence, I doubt you'll you'll think it's anybody but the Hodell family. And also she got pregnant by her father and that kid is still alive. And you know that the brother of I think her name was Tamar, wasn't it, yes, Maar Hodell. Yeah, her brother wrote, has written books and done interviews and he

Well, doctor Hodell, that's what he did. He did illegal abortions. That was part of what he did. It was like a thing he couldn't even do then, but he did him illegally for celebrities.

And they wait a second, so that's American Horn.

Murder House.

I was going to say, Thrash can finish talking without Julia talking about American Horse Story, because yeah, it's the Matt Ross character in season one is supposed.

To be him.

I mean, it's George Odell. It's supposed to see I told you guys, we're living in the most interesting season of American Horror Story. We're living in a conglomeration of all the seasons put together. And I will stand by that until day I'm dead.

Well, yeah, if you's hear some Black Mirror in.

There too, black Mirror slash American Horror Story.

Yeah, it would be pretty point.

Nick, who is your favorite out of the Laurel Canyon? Though I have not ever heard you.

Say, I don't think I really have, would tell you the truth.

Like getting to head right now, you have to pick one artist out of the Laurel Canyon to listen to until you're dead.

Ooh, man might actually go with the Dead who Grateful Dead?

Oh well, they were in the bay.

But I mean, you have to pick canyons so it can be like Morrison, Mama's and the Papas, who else? The Turtles, Les, David Cross Crosby Stills and.

Nash Hendrick's kind of was around the scene.

The birds love Eric Clapton.

He'll probably just take Eric Clapton.

Yeah, I love you.

Got What's what's his deal with over there?

That guy's story is weird.

Well, he that's where his kid died, right, He lived up there at that time, and he was totally tied in with the monkeys and all of them, like all of them were tight.

They all have pictures together.

Who was Graham Parsons with.

The Flying Burrito Brothers? I think is Graham Parsons? Yeah, And he died in the town that I grew up in when I was a little kid. My grandpa like built a house there and everything.

Joshua Tree.

Yeah, and he died in that hotel there and.

Zach Began's Ghost Adventures and.

There's a Ghost Adventures episode I was gonna say at that hotel.

Yeah, I'm telling you, I'm telling you. And isn't there like that weird story where they took Graham's body and they like buried it on the soul.

They made a really good movie of that with what's the fucking jackass guy's name?

Not so Yeah? Yeah, grand Theft Parsons, I think, is that's what it is?

I mean to me, Like she keeps talking about how this is all like keeping the story alive. So I would have to say ghost adventures just another way that they keep these legends going.

Oh for sure.

I don't know.

We talked about it when we cover Jeffrey Dahmer because I said he'll show up at Jeffrey's apartment and I was like, oh, no, he can't because they burnt it down. They built a playground there. So it's it's just funny how he shows up at these places that like how does he know about this? Literally, the he goes to the hotel where Grandparsans dies, He went to Kenneth Anger's old house and interviewed Kenneth Anger. Did you guys thrash did you Yeah?

Yeah, yeah yeah, And they like shoved the lion claw marks that were like at the mansion when Levey owned the Lion and yeah yeah they did. They did like an investigation like in one of the rooms where they did one of the rituals and everything. Yeah, and Angers like just all talking about summoning demons and everything right on the episode. Yeah, literally, his Lucifer jacket his Lucifer jacket.

What channel do they play ghost Adventures on? Is it like t LC or some ship like that.

You travel channel, your travel Travel.

Channel, that's what people. They literally are just clicking around on TV and freaking Kenneth Anger pops up with this Lucifer jacket and summing demons. Yeah literally really that so. But Kenneth Anger is a whole other aspect of the Canyon though, because he uh was it the Rolling Stones and they were going to do some project with him or something like that.

Yeah, And I mean he's heavily tied in with a lot of the Manson people.

Well, there's even rumored that the original guitar player of the Rolling Stones, Yeah, that he was doing a black magic ritual and I don't think he finished it and they found him like drowned in the pool.

Yep, that is true.

And then I guess if we're talking about the Stones, we should bring up the uh It's in the book, right, The Altamont.

Park, I don't know. This one to me is one where everybody just argues about what went down that day, Like I think we got into some hot water last time we talked about it.

Have you seen the video I never did see it. Yeah, there's the video and you can see the whole thing go down between the Hell's Angel and uh, there's like a black dude. I think he has a knife and you can see pull No, I think he pulls out a gun and then the Hell's Angel pulls out like a k bar and you can they just it just they just get into a whole fight right there in the crowd. And there's like a whole story of one

And yeah, and the Rolling Stones hired them as security.

Yeah why would yeah, yeah, why would you look.

Like there's the Hunter S. Thompson thing. There's a Bundye victim that was supposedly taken away by Hell's Angels from like a big picnic. These guys always kind of have they're just in the background.

And the Ascettach they were directly involved at the attack too.

And I mean and they did do a lot of black black market drug dealing back then too, Like they definitely had connections to Wait.

And all started by ex military. They were passes just like the military.

I mean named after the squadron, the Hell's Angels. What squadron it was an Air Force squadron named the Hell's Angels, and that's what they they named their.

All.

All the major biker gangs have ties from the Vietnam where they come back. A lot of them were started there and the original ones were started to World War two because they would learn how to ride motorcycles over there and then they became available.

So what's Hybrid and Parsons Laurel Canyon decade, Well.

I mean that was earlier, but still it's it's around the time Lisa was talking about nineteen forty seven. That era, like a lot of big things going on there. I do think that scientology and its naval intelligence connection can't be overlooked if we're talking about.

The Laurel Canayan ties in direct I'm sorry, but the Laurel Canayan ties in directly to Jack Parsons and the Oto lodge he was a part of, which is called the Agape Lodge in California, and there's evidence that Charles Manson was Actually there's some weird stuff where they hired them to break into the lodge to get a bunch of files and documents because there was like a like an argument between Israel Regardi and the other person that was running the lodge at the time, m And they

I was just gonna see. There was a boy that was locked in a box somewhere and they were somehow able to Okay, so you know that story good?

Yeah. Yeah, he was locked in a box at the lodge and supposedly they were like using him for ritual and stuff, and they found him chained up and he had just like a bowl of water and like some food.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they said like they weren't. He was just like pissing and shitting all over himself in the box. And it was a lot like how they talk about the kids at Presidio Air Force Base. They were getting pissed on and shipped on, and like that's one of the main things if you look for Satanism, is like kids getting literally pissed and shipped on and some I think it was actually in McGowan's blog about this kid that was locked in the box. I can't remember all the details, like.

Thrash it was. He had a whole chapter on it directly with the Laurel Canyon and like Manson and then some some band.

That you know, not to get back to, like the piss and ship stuff, But that didn't come up. That did come up. That did come up in one of Paul Bonacci's story, not to him, but the chick I forgot the girl that he was with a lot. They had both left one time. I think they actually got into a plane and went somewhere and they both got split apart. Yeah, when she came back into the car to get back into the riot, I mean he said she was.

Just pass some shit.

Well, and I think that's where isn't that the story where Hunter S Thompson gets involved?

Is he king?

I mean he's he was, he'd spent a lot of time in the Bay and LA but yeah, the Bonazzi stuff about him, and McGowan was convinced that Hunter s Thompson was one of the bad ones. I listened to an interview where you can just hear the heartbreak in his voice and I feel the same way like that one's kind of hard to swallow.

Yeah, Hunter s Thompson, he's no good.

I mean yeah, I mean the more I look into it, the more I don't want to, but I can't stop. We're actually going to do a huge episode on him.

He's literally the model Nightmare neighbor. He's literally just like taking his forty four and just like unloading it at the neighbor and running a sheriff. Yeah, s eriff and shaved his head and he had like the what was it the payote button logo for the sheriff.

And well that's another up there is in Aspen, Aspen and Boulder, they're connected and they have the same kind of thing.

Glenn Fry from The Eagles.

Was up there and a lot of weird stuff like that, like he had a pass from a lot to do whatever he wanted to do up there.

And yeah, and Bill Murray and Brian Doyle Murray were hanging out with Hunter S. Thompson quite a bit too.

So that sucks, That really sucks. I love Bill Murray. Colby told me that he fucked his.

Cat Hunter S. Thompson. So do you guys know this story about the Screwjack Postge my gosh.

You guys are gonna fucking throw Well.

So, like I said, I was a huge Hunter S. Thompson fan. I read everything I could get my hands on. And not long after he died, they published this like collection of short stories called Screwjack. And you all know about how he kind of, oh, this is fiction, but is it with fear and loathing and all that. I mean, he knows that he has to claim that it's satire, and but it's a first person account about him fucking

Yeah, And it's a cute cat. I've seen a million cats like that. It's a little black cat. Yeah, do you believe it.

Though, no, I can't. I gotta wonder.

Well as far as as far as counterculture, I mean who he was huge and drugs and especially the Hell's Angel Like, he broadcasted that and made it popular, so that whole counterculture movement would and the Hell's Angels wouldn't be nearly as popular if you didn't write that book and show up on that TV show where.

The one Yeah, and let's not forget that Adrena Chrome was published in the ninety teen seventy two novel where you know it kind of faded away. We didn't really know about it. I mean you can look into the history of it and it's all pretty credible. But then he brought it into mainstream culture and then again with the movie in the nineties with Johnny Depp.

I mean that I remember being a kid and I used to be obsessed with looking up different drugs for some reason. I would look up every drug possible and what they did and everything. And I remember watching Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and here, oh, what's that one? Let me read that one up? And I remember looking it up on like eroid dot org or whatever nice and there was a lot of interesting stuff back then.

What did it say?

Just all kinds of stuff like the different doctors and alkaloids and like different experiments that are we're done with it and area real kinds of detailed information. Yeah, and then it would also say that it's mainly only was talked about in that book, and that's was like where it was first heard of really in the public.

Mm hmm. Well, I think if we're going to talk Laurel Canyon stuff, we should also mention actors from the Laurel Canyon, because I don't think we did that last time we covered the canyon, did we.

I think we skimmed it a little bit.

I think I have a list.

Oh, go ahead, as you look, as you look up a list. I wanted to kind of mention something that about Frank Zappa. I don't know if if y'all have already mentioned this before, but did y'all know about his dad, Frank Zappa's dad M. H. Edward Arsenal, Yeah, yep, And so he he actually was like a metallurgist for Lockheed and Convet Aircraft corporates as well. And during this time, that's when Edgewood was also affiliated with mk OH I'm sure one time, and they were running Elis experiments at

The Paula Rothschild currently discovered them and I think he was Electure records.

But Frank Zappa, he even claimed like when his dad worked at Edgewood Arsenal and they were there, that he had horrible problems breathing and he had horrible coughing problems and stuff like that. And then when they moved to California. A lot of that cleared up. But then famously, Frank Zappa died horribly of cancer ainus cancer. Yeah, ainus cancer. Yeah, yep.

So is he breathing through his assent?

He was doing all kinds of stuff with his ass If you ask me, everybody.

Weren't wasn't Wasn't this where they were developing all the nerve gases saren and orange and all that other stuff to be later used in Vietnam. This was at that time.

Yeah, my notes say that his dad was the head of operation what is this chemical Warfare and mk ultra operations at the experimental Edgewood Arsenal Facility. That's what I have in my notes. But you were talking about his wife, And actually John Phillips's wife was a direct descendant of President John Adams. And I think his John Phillips's sister

But I don't.

I mean, I don't know what's going on with them.

Ye, and the whole my whole point. And I know everybody said this already. I know in every Laurel Canyon stuff they keep saying this. But if if you have a bunch of military brats, right, because that's what they were, and they all move to an area where it's an air Force base, Lookout Mountain, and then you have all of these I don't know oops coming out of Lookout Mountain that were influencing the culture. I think they just diversified their portfolio, like Nick said, well, manipulating society.

So a part of the book is so back then almost everybody or there was a good percentage chance that you were going to get drafted. And whether you made it or not through the medical and all that, that's another thing. But at least being drafted huge likelihood. And he went through and none of the people in Laurel Canyon got drafted. So it seems like these high ranking people found, you know, creative ways of getting their kids not to get slaughtered.

Or maybe they were drafted but in different capacities, you know what I mean, Like they were drafted, but they were carrying out a different operation and they were very useful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were very useful. So there was no way that they were going to like ship them off somewhere. They were doing a great job here, you know, at home.

Well remember they did that with Elvis, They had him all dressed up in the military and army and everything, and then they did that with Jimmy Hendricks as well.

That's true.

And Elvis was literally an agent.

He was a.

DA agent, And people go through these books and they're like, oh, it's just you know, some goofy thing he did because he has that much clout.

But he was deputized in like several agencies.

I mean, so isn't that where he met Priscilla too? In Germany?

I'm not sure.

No, isn't that like Priscilla like his.

Like by the way, Yeah, but think she I think she was even younger than that when the courtship.

He was thirteen when the courtship began. But I swear he was he like met her while he was overseas. I want to say it brought her back.

He came I think he came home on leave or something and met Priscilla I mean, it's a story.

I don't know.

I covered it a long time ago.

But actually.

I was going to have you tell your theory about Jack Nicholson.

Oh well, I think that Jack Nicholson, he's got one of the most intriguing stories out of any of the Hollywood guys come out. Yeah, but he's because he was definitely kind of not huge when he was doing his acting in the beginning. And the story is is that he decided to become more of a producer and then Rip Torn had a schedule conflict when they were doing Easy Writer, and so they got Nicholson, and then that

Stage to that.

Syops, I thought there was an interview with Ted Bundy. I think it was in Colorado, and I swear it to Jack Nicholson.

Yeah, I think it's compelling.

It's it.

Did you ever see the movie psych Out with Jack Nicholson?

Is that one of the like the ones he made with Fonda and Dennis Hopper before they did Easy Writer, And yeah, it's.

Like it's like a it's like an acid movie through the whole thing.

Yeah, they kind of worked their way up to Easy Writer, which to me, I love Easy Rider. That was one of my favorite.

And then he also he also did a biker movie too.

Yeah, wasn't that Easy Rider?

No, I mean not a different one if it's almost like Hell's Angels kind of thing. Really, it was called Hell's Angels.

Maybe I don't remember.

He played the joker too, Oh, yeah he did.

I think Jack Nicholson is probably one of the most well known out of the list. I mean maybe my list is Jack Nicholson, Warren Bady, Dennis Hopper, Peter Fonda, Salminio, and James Dean, which there's a whole thing about James Dean too. I can't remember what it is though he was gay.

Right and uh was he gay? I know Montgomery Clips.

I remember reading something in the Gallas Rock Hudson was gay.

I mean maybe they all.

Were who they're and they're gay together.

But yeah, the list is. But you got to throw Roman Plansky in there, a one hundred Roman. He's not an actor.

But you should also didn't say your theory about the the Tate murders being staged.

Oh yeah.

I've just come to the point where I think a lot of these things never really happened, and the Lobbianca ones I think probably get overlooked a lot just because of the you know, the scope of the Tate killings. But I don't know, I can't be convinced after reading everything about Laurel Canyon and who her dad was and the way they blew it up. It's kind of like how I also don't think the West Memphis three thing

You think it was like a Hollywood stage, Like.

I mean, Hollywood is CIA, CIA is Hollywood. Throw Disney in there. Laurel Kanson stuff. Sharon Tates that I don't remember if what branch and military he was, but he kind of came in and just took over after it happened, And I mean, they just all the stuff they found that the Polansky household it if she is dead. I mean, I'm kind of on the fence about it, but if I had to say, you know, life or death situation, gun to head, I would say that they staged a

Yeah.

Well, Lookout Mountain had stated the art equipment and that's where they were filming nuclear films, right for the nuclear blasts.

And that's what they said officially. I think they were doing a lot of stuff unofficially that will never know about it.

They say that's where they like developed the films.

Okay, then why.

Did Marilyn Monroe.

Have top Well, what he's saying I always thought that those things looked like a model.

Yeah, they look fake and gay.

And that's where they're probably filming all that type of stuff. And like, if Kubrick really did film the moon landing, if it was him or somebody else that lookout, that's probably where they would have done it.

I mean, Marilyn Monroe, she was one of the astronauts.

Frank Sinatra, right, yeah.

Frank Sinatra had top apparents.

Well, I don't know why I'm blanking Oh Sebring, J Sebring. I brought it up last time, but you have to watch the J. Sebring documentary. It's interesting.

Where can we find it?

It was just on Amazon when it came out, and I think I readed it for like two or three bucks. It's just called J.

Sebring or what.

Yeah, it's just about it's about him. It's a it's pretty interesting, but they it. It has the lawyer and everything, and it kind of talks about he was saying that Sharon was trying to divorce Polanski and that she was trying to get back with Seabring, and it's pretty interesting. I found it interesting anyway. But the only problem again, it just adds to the case you're like, oh my gosh.

Now here's this Yeah, right, I know, But isn't j C. Bring the one that used to cut Jim Morrison's hair?

Jase?

I mean he was the jer Sinatra, Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Uh yeah, all those people, almost anybody that what's his what's his name? Steve McQueen was like his best friend? Mmm?

Was Natalie Wood Laurel Canyon? I mean I think like Laurel Kenyon adjacent definitely, because I know she was tight with Warren Batty. Who is Laurel Canyon? And that I did an episode a long time ago on like how weird her death was too.

Because well a lot of people watched Once upon a Time in Hollywood with the Brad Pitt out on the boat with the harpoon thing, and because they maybe killed his wife, that that was a nod to Natalie Wood, right, situation.

I didn't know that, but I mean, yeah, there's a lot of suspicious, weird stuff about what happened to her, because wasn't who was.

On the boat, right, I can't remember the other her husband and they got an argument or something. She had hung out with Christopher walking all day or something.

Yeah, that's what it was and he was on the boat.

I do remember that, but gosh, I wish I could remember from that episode. But there was like even like a witness or something that saw her, like in the water screaming for help, and nobody would throw her a floaty. I mean, she couldn't swim, so but I couldn't remember if she was Laurel Canyon or like Laurel Canyon adjacent.

I mean, I think that McGowan does bring her up in the book.

He also brings up Phil Hartman too.

Yeah.

Phil Hartman's an interesting one just because of I don't remember exactly what he was doing, but he ended up being like the guy who designed a lot of the logos, right, yeah, did some album cover artwork.

He came up with Crosby Stills in Nash logo.

Yeah, and I think his death is really suspicious. I used to just buy the story.

But his wife shot him.

Yeah, I mean I heard someone talking about it once and then when they said that she used to step down to kill herself, then she used to kill him. That right there was like, Okay, you got to look into this one because there's a lot of fuck you have foot on that one. And he was around all these guys when he was really young.

Yeah, and I can't remember where what part of the block. I think it was like on the last page or something. He talks about like Phil Hartman and some people who were like distantly related to the Canyon. I think that's when Natalie Wood comes up. But I mean, I feel like I've asked everybody except for Mike and Thrash who their favorite Laurel Canyon people. Did I ask you, Lisa?

You did?

I did ask your favorite?

Oh and you said yes, I said, I mean I like them, yes, But I think, like I said, Joni Mitchell, all right, Yeah, that's what she said, because he really talks about them. They're kind of in the background, probably watching it all happen now.

Eric Clapton all day. For me, I love Eric Clapton.

Is that what Nick landed on to?

I think so yes.

That leaves Thrash.

Well, it's it's either Frank Zappa or Jim Morrison, like I'm but I have more Jim Morrison books. But I feel like I'm more into Frank Zappa's music. I feel like Frank Zappa actually said a lot with his music, like he was kind of exposing a lot of MK ulture and stuff in my opinion, even though he was still kind of a garbage guy.

Mm hmmm. Yeah, well the best ones are what was it, mothers of invention.

But he started he like gave like so many good musicians got their start through Frank Zappa.

Un as far as just like musically speaking, he was so extimental and I think he's probably influenced so many people that probably wouldn't be playing music today. He's definitely he's eccentric.

He literally has albums called Shut Up and Play Your Guitar, and it's there's like four or five albums and they're literally nothing but guitar solos. It's just it's a band and just him just shredding for twenty minutes, I think. But like Terry Bosio, he would always somehow find child prodigies. In my opinion, like Terry Bozio is probably the one of the greatest drummers ever and he started with Frank Zappa. Steve I started with Frank Zappa.

Yeah, didn't Crosby Stils and Nash start with him.

One jammed, He jammed with everybody and uh, Frank Zappa even had like a beef with John Lennon because you could find a little clip of him talking crap. So they did like a live show with you go oh and John Lennon and Uh Zappa. They played one of Zappa's songs and then on John Lynn's album he credited hisself that they wrote the song and he changed the title and everything, so they had like bad blood. Well

Yeah, He's like, who this who's this fucking Tavistock puke coming out? Right?

Yeah?

I was gonna say because the Beatles were at some point hanging out with them, weren't they.

Yeah, there was some overlap there. I know Lennon was there quite often. There was even there's Harry Nilsen right, yep, befriended the Beatles and was there's some suspicious stuff that went on with that guy and at his.

House one hundred. Wasn't that who mamma as was hanging out with when she choked on the ham sandwich? I think she did quote unquote she choked on a ham sandwich.

Yeah, Well, Mama Cass and then we're supposed to be going over to the titehouse to have a party that night. Like that was right, and that's why Steve McQueen supposedly went by and got the drugs from the house before the police got there.

There is Lisa, Were you gonna screen misterang just kidding?

No?

No, no, I was.

I think I was going to say something about something else. Oh, I was going to make a joke because you were saying bad blood. I was like Taylor Swift bad blood. It was a bad joke.

No, it's a good joke. I like it. I appreciate it. And isn't it. Did her Man win the Super Bowl?

No?

No, no he did not. He did not want but he did look on movie stars anyway.

Yeah, I saw that.

I saw that.

I was gonna say. Somebody posted something about Yoko Ono a comment. Oh she was a psychopath. I actually do believe that. Have you ever heard this story of like what John Lennon like what made him fall in love with her? Have you guys heard this bullshit as story?

Oh guys, it's like mk Algar, you saw sees a sign and says yes or something? Right, Yeah, I watch the.

Building, right he goes to like an art exhibit and all this stuff is like really dark and really like macabre, and there's like an art piece where you have to climb a ladder and go all the way to the top of the ladder to see what the art piece is.

I don't know.

There's a lot of people out there who say all of them.

Are they're all training.

I can't like every s.

We'll never say George is a training.

I love George.

George is the best beetle.

Yeah, I don't know. I think there's inversion that goes on.

But at the level of Yoka was trans I.

Mean I'd buy that way.

Look at her. Holy shit. I was gonna say something before that though. Oh. I think my favorite out of the Laurel Canyon is the mom's in the Papas. I don't know if if Janice is the honorable mention? Is she Laurel Canyon? Oh yeah, she living really okay? Okay?

Oh yeah, she even died in a hotel that it was like right there in Laurel Kenyon.

Is she twenty seven Clubs?

Yeah?

Okay, So she supposedly died from this. She had the same heroine that suppose Jim Morrison died. They had the same heroin dealer who was the same dealer for the Stones, and that dealer ended up dying from his own stuff. He was like a French like related to French royalty, and he had like connections to Morocco and everything.

And he was like shipping stuff all over I think she killed herself though.

Sorry, I'm supposedly too.

I don't think I think there was a lot of I think heroin was becoming a thing right after the as. I think she was addicted to it in my opinion, but like accidental overdose though, yeah, because his stuff was supposedly so strong that he even.

Died from it, right, But they put her down as like a suicide. And I don't think she killed herself, no, Janet, Yeah, I don't think Janice killed herself because she was about to get married. She was so happy.

I could see her accidentally doing it.

Maybe yes, maybe accidentally, or maybe because she's part of the twenty seventh Club, like she had it was her time to go, and they fucking set it up to make it.

Look like well.

There was also blind Now Wilson who was a part of Yeah, he who was also the twenty seven Club, who's directly tied into Laurel kN.

I mentioned that with William Ramsey if you go on the blog. I don't know if we could do a share screen or something, but there's this whole Laurel Kenyon death list that he lists off the blog and blind Out Wilson is on there, Janie is on there, Jimmy Hendrix is on there. I mean they're all there. But it's like, it's just odd to me how many get ruled a suicide when the circumstances around the quote unquote suicide are just so suspicious. It's like there's no way,

One thing that I thought of when you were saying twenty seven club. I mean you hear twenty seven club over and over and over, right, But you know what, people haven't talked about people who die at seventy two?

Seventy two?

Yeah, because twenty so maybe that long out of the Laurel Canyon. John Wayne was seventy two, and so is Frank Sinatra ew Old Blue Eyes.

I was gonna say louied, but I think he was seventy one. Well, I always liked the ones that died either twenty six or twenty eight because it's like, uh, you almost had it.

I think anybody who dies in their twenties, well, I mean you could do Phoenix.

There's a lot of It's like twenty six to thirty two is the one where it's basically all of them, like how old?

What wasn't Kurt thirty three?

Who Kurt Kobe?

Oh he's twenty seven, he was twenty semi club?

Oh my god?

See, and uh, what's your name?

Amy Winehouse? Yeah, Brandon Jones kind of kicked it off because they do say that what's the guy's name. Oh, I used to love him, did the he had the Crossroads legend. He was a blues guitarist.

Oh is Robert Johnson?

Yeah, Robert Johnsonson.

It was twenty seven, wasn't he the O G twenty seventh club though, that's why they put it in O Brother, We're arty. I sold my soul to the devil.

Yeah, he was supposed like the first one. Yeah, mm hmmm.

He taught me how to play this guitar reel.

I read a book a while back that kind of tied some old classical little European musicians into it too. There's a number.

Really what I mean? I guess do you think it's real?

Though?

It's the real as we wanted to be.

How old was Selena? She was young, twenty two.

I think I think it's like Amy Winehouse is a part of it.

Midsomar all the elders die at seventy two. That's interesting. Over there, con cocted some ship.

I was sorry. I was like, I found that. I found the definitely oh cool.

Yeah.

So if you look on there, Nick, I don't know if you can share screen or not, but there are so many deaths that get ruled a suicide out of the canyon, and a lot of them have like real weird like circumstances around the suicide. Like do you did you listen to that episode I did with William Ramsey? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Right?

Like it's like, oh, it was ruled the suicide, but.

Well, yeah, one of their lot, the Brothers band, one of the guys gotten a wipeout and his motorcycle at an intersection, and then it was like almost a year I think it was almost a year later they the other guy did it too, and they said his was a suicide, right, see what I mean, like her purpose because he was so depressed about his bandmate dying.

You know what I think, if.

They're gonna rule some of these suicides would have been an interesting one with Mama cass As. She killed herself on a ham sand which just to like humiliate because they always made fun of how fat she was.

Oh she lost all the weight by then.

I wonder, you know, how like they had a scribbled pig on Sharon Tates thing the whole ham pork old.

Shoes, especially because she was supposed to be there that night.

Oh my god, you think that's what I thought.

Oh, that is so crazy.

You left out Piggy. We'll get you at the ham sandwich.

Well, there's there's a cure.

Was black and honey baked for sure.

There's speculation that it doesn't say pig, that it says pick, as in Pick Dawson, who was supposed to be one of the drug dealers.

Mmm. I like the pig better because it makes Mama Cassa's ham sandwich makes more sense. But I also think that they just put a sacrificial pig. All right, Terresa, she's on one Where.

The fuck are you?

By the way, she's in the commons section.

But she can't drill up, I know.

But there was a story about Mama cass where it was like they met her because she was like working at a bar or something, and like you know the story I always tell she got like bonked on the head by a pipe and then all of a sudden she could just start singing real good and they But the real story is they grew up with her on a military base. They were friends with her from childhood.

Nick Morrison was in her kindergarten class.

So the whole pipe and getting balked and but it's like I said that, it's not like they're talentless, like.

They know, they wouldn't pick talentless people.

That Bob Dylan got in like a motorcycle or a car accident, and he claimed that his voice got was better after the car accident.

Or well they could only improve Oh god, I was going to say, was that be improved? And I'm above sh I'm a Bob Dylan fan. I think the guy can sing when he wants to.

Did you hear him in that Michael Jackson song We Are the World?

I don't know.

I don't think he's that. I think he can write very well, but.

Listen to his country stuff. He can sing?

Was it before or after the accident?

I didn't even know about that?

Was he Laurel Canyon?

I mean, my grandpa always used to make fun of him because he thought he couldn't sing, ever, and used to laugh that he used to claim that after the accident that he could sing better, And my grandpa would always make fun of Bob Dylan being able to sing after the accident.

I mean, I guess, I guess he can technically sing, but I mean it's it's not great. I'll say that it's not great. There was another Laurel Canyon scene though, going around on the around this same time, though in Memphis and Nashville, though, wasn't there in the sixties.

I've never looked into it that I know.

Sean mccantucks, Yeah, Sean and I talked about it a little bit. But that's where you get like a lot of like the big country stars, and it was really like very Laurel canyonesque. How they all kind of came out together. And I think the Birds actually tried to play at somewhere in Nashville and they got like boot

Neil Young and Leonard Skinner too, Remember the end of Easy Rider.

Yeah, they're riding through the South and they.

Lucases look alike picks him off with the shot.

A bunch of hippies, right, So, I mean I think that it was kind of like I think Nick asked earlier, what do you think that they were trying to accomplish with this? And I think they had so many games running on people at the same time, like country music scene, hippie culture, and like the serial killers started popping up out of nowhere. It was just such a time to be alive. I'm surprised anybody fucking made.

It out a little bit before the hippie scene. Was the beat nick scene?

Yeah? She mentioned Los Alamos earlier. Who was it?

You said?

One of the beat Knicks came out of there?

Was it?

Burrows?

It was?

What again?

Maybe william S Burrow's.

Burrows was also big into occultism.

Yeah, you have too.

Yeah. Burrows was famous for chaos matt and stuff, and he had a method of writing where he and David Bowie used this to actually create his lyrics, where you basically cut random words out and you just place him and the chaos basically is what creates the lyrics. And there's a whole video of David Bowie demonstrating how he does it and how you do it, and how he got it from WILLIAMS. Burrows.

What should me?

No, no, no, no, I'll get you the name of it here. I can't remember the name of it.

He sent it to me and I watched that.

Actually they had and it was I think it was an old boys school initially, if not in its entirety, but they had something and it was like ages twelve to eighteen or something, but they had something kind of like akin to the Boy Scouts, and that when you graduated from high school you would basically obtain first rank in the Boy Scouts, or it was a requirement to graduate to have a rank in the Boy Scouts at

Arthur Robertses for saying like Colegate as in.

Toothpaste, like a folder like Abigail Folger.

So the toothpaste guy.

He was one of the family members nothing the Colgate but he.

Got I swear to god, there's an episode of Ghost Adventures about him. There we go shitting what were.

They So it came out I think when they were doing an expose a on what was the name of Susan Jiski from YouTube or something. This YouTube video is gonna get cut for sure. Her Anne Woujiske, who is the owner or the developer of twenty three a meters, was the ex wife of serge A Brinn, who was

Yeah, I mean I find it over and over again, even the episode we just did Lisa about Adolfo, Like, is it's generational for sure? I mean that will come out of the fucking woodwork, like they'd make you believe, and you know they're just you know, crazy people that came out of nowhere. But I mean that, So we got the toothpaste guy and the guy and somehow David Bowen learned after somebody burrows Jesus correct.

And the technique that Williams burrows. It's called the cut up technique and it's like a chaos magic technique and David Bowie almost exclusively used it in the seventies for his lyrics.

So that what's that one song that he is just like completely while all of his songs are.

But so he would like take his diary or like his like future thoughts, and then he would just randomly cut the words out from that and then he said that like it would like tell his future and all kinds of stuff.

Is there life on Mars. I never did understand that motherfucker. But it's still like, what were you saying about David Bowie the other day, Like he didn't believe in whatever, Like he sold an image to people that he did.

Oh yeah, I mean he kind of had some stuff he was saying at the end of his life where he's so it reminds me of Kurt Cobain. He was so willing to make it and get famous that he embraced all of the dark shit. And I think he kind of had a you know, I regret later in life because he said some things and I can't think of exactly what it was, just that he was kind of sorry that he did. But yeah, Bowie and Burrows.

He writes songs.

No, he's he's a bolster Stanford. But he now has a podcast, right, what is it Tetragramaton or something?

Like that.

Oh I've never heard yeah, yeah, yeah, I have never. William S Burrows would record messages and words, right, he would just record gibberish and random words and everything, and then he would cut the field and then put it together and then the random words wouldn't mean something. That's where it comes from. So that's where Rick Rubin is

Basically, No, I mean it makes sense to me. Like I said before, is their life on Mars. I fucking love that song, but it makes zero sense you know what I'm talking about.

I mean, watch the video on it's on YouTube, David Bowie talking about cut up technique. It's literally like a minute a minute long, and you can see there's like lines of coke on the table and everything while he's talking about it.

Well, what do you think about them saying stuff about like and this could be all made up? But they take like the master and they do these rituals on it and they as produce it. So anytime you listen to it, you're getting demonized, and do you guys think that there's something to that or like, what what are your thoughts?

I think so I have heard that supposedly sometimes these records even get pressed depending on astrological times.

Right, okay, so you do think like because I can't remember who it was, but it was like a guy who said they would take like the master and they would take it into like a secret room and they would have like a literal ritual and they would infuse it with I don't know, I mean, you've heard this right.

Enough to ever really I had the video said, I'll give you the name of the guy.

Oh you know what I'm talking about specifically, Okay.

One thing that I I all right, I'll put it this way. I would not doubt that happens with music because of just the simple fact Lon Milo Duquette comes out and emits I'm pretty sure in his book, are on a podcast that he did that with this tarot deck. It's sell more tarot. That dude's doing it. Why wouldn't the people be doing it with other products?

Right? Or like if you I think it's like if you play them backwards or something, there's like hidden messages.

Oh yeah, that's a whole other thing. Like I know the Beatles were experimenting with that. Apparently there's some indication that they admit that Paul died.

God they need to admit it.

I don't know. There's the whole Stairway to Heaven thing where if you play spring Clean for the may Queen backwards, it's something about my sweet Satan, Oh, for God's sake. I think a lot of that stuff you could just kind of happen upon. But I mean they were doing it well.

Like Danzick on the on the first album. If like the song Possessed, if you play it backwards, it's there's a Latin exorcism prayer if you play the record backwards, like legit Yeah, the song Possessed, if you play it backwards, it's legitimately a Latin exorcism prayer.

That's crazy, but it actually says words when it's playing.

It's actually the actual exorcism prayer. Okay, does it sound like song is supposed to be like summoning a demon and if you play it backwards, you're you're doing the exorcism prayer. Basic remind me never.

To download that ship.

We could go get the viyball, I don't want it. So is that misfits or solo stuff?

It's the first album, the one with Mother and Twisted Game.

Okay, I think you might have that one.

Oh my god, but that that's that song is very creepy if you play it backwards, so sounds like it.

Somebody wrote in the comment that they also watched that. I don't know if it was an interview or what it was. It was a recording of that producer who said they take the master and they put I guess they cast spells on it, is what they said in the comments.

I think I put it up actually earlier.

Yeah, I heard it on Instagram, so it must be true, right, I hear all kinds of stuff on Instagram these days.

So did do you think if this well one? I actually do agree with some of these people. I think, like I wouldn't say act well kind of actors, yeah, or I think they're put out there. They might actually have somewhat talent and they you know, perform, but I think sometimes like their life story and how it ended, I think could be fabricated.

Mean too, yeah, because it's like would they be as famous as they are if they didn't die in like some tragic way like Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain. I mean, yeah, they might, they might still be famous. Oh would you say, Mike Right, It's like would they be who they are if they didn't. It's like part of the deal that they have to die in this horrible way to like.

I don't know. When we're talking to John Gusty, who she mentioned earlier, he's worked in like on the production end of music, and he says that he's witnessed straight up that the artist wants to step away and they're given some options like we can fake your death, you can be replaced by somebody who looks just like you, or you know, you die and you don't get any of the royalties, but you have to take a different name. Yeah, And so I don't know. I think like there's some

Well, if you had to put a percentage on it, like how many of these people actually die, are you going to say like ten percent, fifty percent die and fifty percent get repurposed. Sure, so you're saying, so you're telling me there's a chance that Janice is still alive.

Probably not.

Now, I love Janice, she lived.

Rough, Yes she that whole like deciding that you're gone and you have whatever. I think it plays into the whole Plus Ultra Hyperspace never Land persona and you'll you all have heard of.

That right kinda, I mean not really not to the degree you probably do.

You know, like that movie Finding Neverland. Yeah, yeah, and it was like leaving this dimension or this realm and going to another realm. And that's kind of one of the I guess the founding things that there was a society called Plus Ultra that Nikola Tesla Walt Disney all these people belonged to and they believe that once they were done here, they they merited enough to leave and

Yeah, but you think like they're dead or you think they're they're repurposed, or like what do you think?

I think?

I don't know.

I think it depends. It depends if they can make enough money off of them already, just as is, they'll they'll kill them off, you know, because they don't need them, or if they are some like family blood tie, then they have an option to kind of get repurposed or reabsorbed into a different thing. I think it just depends money and blood always talk.

Right, right, because it's like we were saying earlier, like with like Crosby and some of these guys whose family trees go all the way back to the beginning of time. You know, if they were going to fake a suicide on him, they'd probably give him the option of like just becoming a different person or some shit. But Janis was just a drugged out crackhead, and so she you know, she probably didn't get that luxuries. They probably just killed her ass I.

Got a question for you then, Okay, so if they just kill it, Yeah, So if they just kill them, all right, and then like give them a new identity or whatever, Right, why not just kill off Paul McCartney, replace him with a completely new member and make him like a complete huge legend instead of, you know, supposedly replacing him with a lookalike. And he died in a car accident everything, why cover up him? But then all of a sudden, like uh, James Droplin.

Before I answered the question, can I ask you if you think he was replaced?

I think he was replaced.

I think he was replaced too. And to answer your question, I have no fucking idea.

Well, that one is because if I had to think about it, you would say, like the Beatles had, there was so much stock in them at that point. And I mean, if they had this bizarre accident where it wasn't you know, it wasn't anything they planned and they wanted to keep that gravy train rolling, And if they really did replace him with I think they did. That's another one that I kind of scoffed at in the beginning. Now, I mean, shit, the guy's like just taller.

He's taller, and he's a way better musician.

Well that's the thing is they found somebody who actually was the best musician in the band all said and done. So, I mean, you listened to some of the Beatles' early stuff and Paul McCartney's baselines are okay, and he went he went from being the smiley, bubbly one you know him and Ringo up there, and he completely changed. He doesn't look the same. But yeah, I think that each

Well like for like Morrison, right, so for your argument, like nobody ever saw his body, right, nobody of the band members, nobody ever technically saw his body. And some of the band members even found that kind of odd, like I can't. I think it was the keyboard player. I think he was like, well, how do I know he really died? We haven't even seen him.

Yeah, exactly, And who else was it that they oh, like Elvis, They said there was weird stuff about like his corpse quote unquote was like melting in the casket or some shit like that. Like they were like, since Windy dead body sweat, there is just weird stuff, you know, So I just don't. That was a really good example though, like why would they replace Paul McCartney if they could just.

Like, you know, I think, but if he dies tragically, look at how legendary that is, Like, but it makes so much better, right, Well.

They save that for Lennon?

Yeah, yeah they did.

They ca there you go, You're right, there you go, there you go.

They gave Georgia cancer death.

Yeah. I don't know. I think John Lennon could be one of those that's not really dead too.

Ringo wow, because he's a fucking useless asshole.

He had to be on Thomas the train.

That was part of his script.

Lisa, were you going to say something a minute ago about this?

No, I was.

I was going to say something about like it wouldn't Isn't it weird? How like with Paul McCartney, he ends up owning all this music? What is it like he owns all of Frank Sinatra's music, all of the Beatles music.

He was Michael Jackson.

Jackson, he was they actually helped falling out over some of that stuff, and.

Apparently that he died shortly after, right. I guess the blame was that Michael Jackson had gone bankrupt and that Paul had offered to buy his music back or something, because I think Paul used to own all of Michael Jackson's right, Yeah, I remember that incorrectly.

Well, Michael Jackson bought some cookoo I think, and he ended up having the majority at some point, and I know that's when he sold it to the Paliss shoes commercial and Paul McCartney was like, the song's about revolution, it's not about selling shoes. And they you know, they did a song together. They were supposed to be Buddy Buddy and then but yeah, near the end of Michael Jackson's life, what what he was Apple Music. It was one of the big.

Ones because everybody hates Sony, like even.

And then he sold it to Apple. Oh, he sold the entire catalog to Apple.

And that's when it became such a big deal that you could get Beatles on iTunes. I remember when that happened, and that has.

Now happened to Pink Floyd. I believe Google bought Pink Floyd or Apple bought Pink Floyd.

Now they sold their entire name catalog and everything and and look alike, so even probably AI and everything.

Paul McCartney also owns Buddy how Lee's music.

Oh does he Well that makes a ton of But.

My whole point is that it's amazing how he comes into the situation of owning all of this music. You know what I mean if he was like a faux member of the band. Well not really because he became a better musician, but you know what I mean, Like, it's so weird how he somehow positions himself to profit off of so much, you know, not being an original member.

Have you got on the Super Bowl yesterday with Adam Sandler? Yeah, he was sitting next to Adam Sandler and they're all like pointing to each other and everything.

Oh my god, what So what was the thing about? Like, uh, do you guys know who Jay Widner is. He does a lot of stuff about like the Shining and like Quebrick and stuff like that.

Yeah, he's Nick just had writer Leon. They made that movie together, right.

So Jay Whidner has talked extensively about how they replaced Paul, and like, I guess if you talk to this new Paul about it like he gets all you know, weird and shit and like won't even bring it up, won't discuss it, won't talk about it. I mean, the guy I liked the Wings too, you know, and he didn't he like write a bunch of music for Ringo and shit after they split up. Okay, well, I'm just saying he was. Whoever replaced him was a great was a

But I mean, I think he's a cool guy.

I don't know. I always thought there was a real darkness to Paul myself.

He's the Walrus.

He's I don't think he's a good dude at all.

Knighted by the Queen of England herself.

Yeah, that's true. That is true.

All right. I think I'm gonna probably wrap it up here. Actually, if you guys, it's almost close to two hours. Thought that was good. Thank you very much, Julian and Colby. I really appreciate that. Had a really good time, like I expected, had a lot of good laughs. Mike Thrash appreciate it. Love when you guys are on and I knew this was a topic that you'd both be into Lisa, thank you very much. As usual, always appreciate your input.

Please, Conspiracy, play time and disinformation. You can find those where you find them pretty much everywhere, with the first one second ones harder to find, but we do do that one more often, and it's more of like political satire shit talking. It's it's you know, we do sprinkle conspiracy in there because it's Dusty and I and Julie and I are going to be doing a show together.

We disagree a lot.

Not to kill each other doing it.

I have a sharpened blade to his throat. Say what I think?

That's great, Say what I think?

And you, Julia, Yeah, I'm wherever you listen to podcast Cosmic Peach and I'm also on the Cult of Conspiracy podcast every Saturday.

Very nice. How does that work? Is it just you and you and them or just just you?

No, it's just me.

It's just one day a week that they let me post a show about whatever it is that I'm interested in at the time. I do like some mini series for them, and Kolby was on the last one that I did. It's called Blood Ties and it's about some program to kill stuff and he drops his amazing Jack Nicholson ted Bundy theory in that in that show.

But most people think it's bullshit, but I don't care.

It's all right, honey. You can believe whatever you want to believe. But yeah, so you can find me on the Cult of Conspiracy every Saturday or Apple wherever, Spotify for Cosmic Peach for my normal stuff. But thank you for having me again, of course.

No, that was great chat. Loved it as usual, and that was a great talk. A lot of good things, you know, talked about a lot of interesting people. Uh yeah, and that is the end of another Occult Rejects again, thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up. There was awesome. There's a lot of people here, a lot of good stuff said, had a good time and until the next one, everybody be well later.

All of these are crimes.

Spy Ray and Sky spreading anyone else borrow

Very sh