Oh, be the trigger Warren.
This podcast may include explicit content that will take you out of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
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Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is the fourth and final part of Blood Ties, and hopefully we are going to wrap everything up in this one. Any unanswered questions from any of the other series, and uh, we're gonna end it with a bang. Tolby, what do you think of the series so far?
Still waiting for that bang?
Fuck you? What do you mean? I think they've all been bangers. I'm going to end it with a bang.
I'm anxious to see what that bang is. It's not to say we haven't had many bangs along the way.
That's been you know.
Yeah, it'll be good, right.
I actually am excited about this one. We always go into this with me not knowing what you've written. Sometimes you're telling me certain things, but I'm seeing.
DOMI right out that that's getting me a little soft rubbery one.
Sure Jeff would would approve.
Well, I'll tell a story when we get going about why I'm so fascinated with Dahmer.
Well, can I ask you you're not really his type? But if you saw him in a bar, would you go for him?
No, I would play hard to get okay, because that means I would immediately end up in his refrigerator.
All right, Well, I do kind of want to do something a little bit different before I read the quote today. I want to kind of talk about the last episode and hopefully for those of you who are listening or watching, you suck around to the very end of the last episode where I played segments from a Ted Bundy interview and I played it for Colby, and I asked him to watch it through the eyes of pretending he actually was innocent of the crimes that have been attributed to him,
And that's the way I watched it. I watched it as if what if he could be telling the truth in this interview and a lot of the crimes that have been like attributed to him he actually was innocent of. And that's how I watched it. But you had an even different dake on it.
I have to share with the class.
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Okay, Well, we joke around about the weird ass connection between Jack Nicholson circa Laurel Canyon, Jack Nicholson and Ted Bundy in their backstory and how maybe it could be him playing Ted Bundy. But I watched that interview just kind of thinking about that, and I don't think that was Ted Bundy.
You feel like that was Jack Nicholson.
I mean, go watch the movie five Easy Pieces or any movie easy Writer, Easy Writer. Watch watch these movies and think about the voice and the mannerisms too, the eyebrows, the smile. Yeah, the mannerisms are spot on. The voice even like, I'm one of those weirdos who think that the same person that played Terence McKennon was probably probably playing Ted Kazinski. Like there's actors out there playing multiple roles,
and so I don't know. It's it's hard for me not to look at things that way, but I always say I'm not married to one idea over the other. I do look at things in a way and kind of get out there in certain certain regards to like what we're really being shown?
Who's real? What's real?
Can I ask you, though, if, besides the Jack Nicholson part, if you watched that and you didn't know who Ted Bundy was, but you knew about this research, would you have thought he may be innocent? No, he appeared guilty to you in that interview.
Not necessarily.
Not necessarily, he.
Appeared to me like somebody who was trying to sell a narrative. He was trying to look compelling, he was trying to look deep. He's trying to make you look into this story even further.
Yeah, I guess so, right.
So I don't look at it like, is this guy sitting in this chair guilty or innocent?
Like what is he selling me?
He's on the news, he's a professed serial killer, self professed even in certain testimonies, but in this one, he's claiming he's never hurt anybody physically in his life.
So anyway, do with that what you will.
I don't expect people out there to entertain that idea necessarily. It's just how my mind works these days.
I do.
Also, we wanted to talk about another little wrap up from Gaysey, right.
Yeah, because we did the beginning of our life. Last episode was Gacy and then we kind of trailed off into Bundy. But some interesting information has crossed our path.
Well, I listened to this.
For people out there who know who Jay Dyer is, Jay Dyer's always got some pretty hot leads before they like really become known in the like mainstream conspiracy world. But he was talking about this podcast series that came out. I think it was twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, do you remember.
I can look at it right now.
Actually, yeah, you look up the synopsis of it, because I did a screenshot on my tablet, but I didn't bring it in here. But it's as we were going through this with all Julia's research, I was reminded about a podcast called The Clown and the candy Man that this independent woman journalist put out. And it's eight episodisodes long, and so obviously we know the Clown is John Wayne Gacy. The Candyman is a lesser known serial killer, even though at the time of him being busted, he was the
biggest mass murderer at the time. He had twenty seven bodies Dean.
Coral out of oh, twenty twenty.
That's when that came out.
It was twenty twenty, twenty twenty. Okay, so it's a lot more recent than I thought. So it must have been brand new when I listened to it. Yeah, so the read the little synopsis for everybody.
Okay, so it's called The Clown and the candyman, and it says two serial killers, Dean Coral and John Wayne Gacy, thousands of miles apart, brutally murdered over sixty teenage boys. The police said the murders were the work of these soul deranged killers, but for the first time, we revealed that they were actually connected by a network of pedophiles which was partially financed by prominent members of American society. This is America's sordid secret.
Yes, so's She did some extensive research. Basically, Dean Coral was killed by what, at first glance appeared to be a victim, and when the investigation thickened, they found out he was a victim slash accomplished, maybe only accomplice. He claims he was handcuffed and that he talked Coral into letting him go, and then he grabbed a gun from him and killed him and saved two other people that were there, a girl and a guy that were both younger friends of his. But it turns out him and
another guy were helping Dean Coral. They were recruiting for him and then they would actually help with all the sick shit that was going on, and a bunch of other busts started going down around that same time in different parts of the US. But this woman in her reces search tied it to what is her name, I don't want to just call her some.
Woman Jacqueline buying them.
Jacqueline buying them.
And so she ends up looking into these big pedophile rings getting busted in Michigan and there was she calls it the real first pedophile island where I don't remember what lake it was, but they had a boys camp out there. She ties like these people who were really upper echelon, like one of the main guys was the
son of a high level GM executive. And then so she just keeps tying all these groups together until she eventually was able to get one of Gasey's some one of the kids he hired to work for him was actually an accomplice of this other guy.
His name was Steve Kram who his accomplice.
What was the guy's name anyway, I keep forgetting it.
Which one?
No, the guy who had like the network where he would.
John David Norman Norman.
So Norman's accomplice was at one point hired by.
Gasey. Was he a victim?
No?
The guy that he's talking about that worked for him. That was a young guy that he says helped him with some of this stuff. His name was Steve Cram. Okay, so he was the guy that was with but he Steve Cram. And for those who have kept up at all with true crime stuff, these names will not sound unfamiliar to you, but h John Wayne Gacy said that a young kid that was working for him named Steve Cram was friends with a guy named Philip Pasky who was also Yeah, he was also friends with John.
David Normasky was actually on Gaysey's like books for being a worker. Yes, and so all these she was able to connect it. Well, the guys that were actually helping Qral, the younger kids that were helping I mean I say kids. They were like teenagers when they met him.
And then by the.
Time these kids also know PHILIPASKI.
I don't remember, but they told the police initially that Coral wasn't acting independently, that he's part of this large pedophile network in Dallas. And that's where Norman was right. So everybody's dropping everybody's names in these circles.
And this was before any.
Of this stuff was like accessible to the general public any of these names or this information fact. They usually just didn't really publicize it too much. I mean, a lot of this stuff was just as big and fucked up as the stuff that's been going on on the West Coast with that Julia and I have been talking about, but it got zero coverage until Gaycy. Coral even goes kind of under the rug when you're just doing a surface level look over all the serial killer and true
crime like legends. He's not one of them, but he should fucking be.
He is what they call the candy man. And he had his body count was twenty eight boys, which is not far off from the thirty three that are attributed to Gaycy. And everybody blows Gaysy up like he was the biggest and the baddest and the only you know. But right around the same time, we have Dean Porl ripping and running through boys and apparently he had some kind of a torture board and.
Oh and they both knew the handcuff trick. Yeah, and some other things kept coming up. It's almost like these guys were part of a network that trains and it's like she didn't really go to the level Jacqueline that I would have like have gone myself, like they're obviously being trained but by who? And is it intelligence?
Well, they did mention there were this higher ups involved in things.
But she needs to like read program to kill going down that path of research, and then she could since McGowan is no more, we should get hold of her.
Man, you think she'd come on a show and talk about it, Yeah, dude, that would be a cool fucking episode podcast. Yeah, questioning her, But I mean for for an eight part series, and god knows I love series. I put him out all the time, but it's an eight part series each, it's.
Not it's not redundant.
It's like I complained about this kind of shit, like they just go redundant to get like ten episodes out. Every fucking word is key. Yes, I mean she does circle back a lot, but only when it's necessary. They're like, remind you, I'll remember we talked about this earlier.
Here's why that's important.
Well, and for me, I even had to like pause and like kind of like take in everything she was saying because she was moving at a pace and if you weren't paying attention, you'd fucking miss out on key information. So those are the kind of podcasts that I love to listen to. We knocked out the whole series in what a couple.
Of days on a red even on a road trip.
I mean they're forty minutes. If you had a nine to five job, you could knock out probably the whole series.
But I mean, I'm saying it's like a seven hour time commitment probably, and you'll.
Be hooked after the first one. Like it's it's super interesting.
Each each episode is like a new layer of the fucking pedophile ASAGNYA.
And you know, I thought we did a pretty good job covering gaycy stuff, but it just opens up a whole new world with this other connection with the.
Well you go in knowing the angle that you're covering that's gonna I mean, she talked about stuff that we didn't know about, and I'm sure we've talked about stuff that she hasn't looked into.
Oh I'm sure. But I did think it was interesting because in one of the last episodes spoiler alert, she does include phone calls between John Wayne Gacy and this guy who was like.
Yeah, talked about it a little bit.
Yeah, we we kind of talked about it, but to hear him actually speaking to guy and like giving him information a lot of this stuff. As we were saying before in our previous episodes, it just didn't even add up that John Wayne Gacy was a in town. There were receipts of him being out of town at the time of the disappearance.
Of some of these boys, out of construction builds going on when some of these kids went missing. So even if John Wayne Gacy did kill them, he wasn't the one who.
Took them off the street, right.
He was one.
Explored in the last episode.
He could have just had the finishing house or been the one who like got to like finish him, and it was he got off on it somehow and then he'd fucked the dead bodies or whatever he did.
Yeah, that makes more sense to me anyways. But anyways, that is a great podcast.
Check it out. Clown and the Candy Man.
Clown and the Candyman. And so I guess I should read our honorary quote before we get started. Quote Jeffrey da thought he was the devil. Jeffrey thought he was so evil that he was equal to the devil. End quote, and that comes from Attorney Jerald Boyle is.
That from like his closing statement in court he's the prosecutor.
Yeah, I mean there was this whole thing, and I have talked about it a little bit before, where jeff would say he would get off or like get charged up by watching The Exorcist Part two, and he even got contacts to change the color of his eyes.
They covered that pretty well in.
The Evan Peters. Yeah, so he really did think that he was evil incarnate and he was trying to build an altar. You remember that.
Yeah, I'll just I'll do this now. But Jeffrey Dahmer was why I said it was kind of a special thing for me because Jeffrey Dahmer was my entry into this world. I told Julia this story a little while ago, but when I was eleven or so, because it was in ninety four that he got caught.
I was he died in ninety four, so it would have been way before that.
I think he had just been put or just died.
Okay, so that makes sense. It would have been ninety four.
Then, Yeah, I think it was.
Newsweek did a big spread on it, and I was at my aunt and uncle's house and I had to take a shit and one of my cousins was in the other bathroom, and so I got to go into their master bedroom bathroom, which was like in their house. That was like, you know, a privileged event. And I got led in there by my aunt and there was on the back of the toilet a stack of magazines and I found the article on Dahmer. Eleven years old reading this thing. You know, I'm like probably a few paragraphs in.
By the time it got done.
Taken my tiny eleven year old shit, and I snuck that magazine out of there and I finished reading it, and then that sent me down my fascination with serial killers. So Dahmer was my initiation. And I think, to me, he's the most fascinating.
He is the most fascinating.
And it's just weird because every study of psychopathy and like just the monsters that walk out there that have done this kind of thing or so so we're told he is a unique case study on so many levels. And he also fits perfectly into the program to Kill theory that McGowan laid out very well that Julia has been presenting and doing her own research on. He is just on every level, just extremely fascinating.
He is, and you know, He was actually the second serial killer I was ever introduced to, and I will say this. The first serial killer I was ever introduced to was Ted Bundy, which peaked my interest into looking into serial killers. But the second one I ever found out about was Jeffrey Dahmer. And my mom rented some kind it was. It was a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer. It wasn't a documentary. It was supposed to be like
the Evan Peters thing. It was a movie about him, and I remembered watching was this the one with U? It came out when I was a kid. It wasn't wasn't anything recent.
No, this isn't recent.
What's the guy who played Hawk guy in the Avengers.
He's a big actor. I can't think of.
His name, right, I can't think of his name, but yeah, I know who it is.
I play movie in the early two thousands.
Let me see if it was that one because Dahmer two thousand.
Jeremy Jeremy Rinner. Click on, you know who that is?
He's hot guy, right, mm hmmm, he played him?
And I guess well, I said, it's just get it because yeah, well, my mom rented it at fucking Family Video or Blockbuster or some shit, and I'll never forget the cover that's I remember, you know, taking it home. I was in like fourth grade or some shit like that, and I threw up after I watched it. And then you think that would stop my mom from showing me any more perverted shit, But no, she she was. Yeah, but anyways, I was severely triggered by even watching the
Evan Peters one was triggering for me. Like they did a great job of putting you almost into the perspective of the victim on some of those.
Yeah, everybody that had anything bad to say about that was and I mean it's like one of the.
Cooke creator is an American horror story.
So there was a lot of like creative liberty. But at the same time, he really.
Did stick to the facts.
It did get a little wokish at the times, but there is moments in that I agree with you entirely where you just feel like, anyway, the critique was that it glorified him, and it really didn't. Were you really got a good perspective of the victims' families.
And you're.
The fucking deaf guy.
But I remember the scene where he's lifting weights and he gets that jogger to come back to his apartment and.
He kills him.
And then he's like driving him with all the grass clippings and gets pulled over just obviously hammered, and.
The cops let him go.
And then the scene where he's like standing in front of the mirror and he drinks blood, or even where he's cuddling with the mannequin. Yeah, they're saying like that eighties song baby don't Go, Don't Go.
He's just like spooning it.
Yeah, it gives you the fucking creeps, but you also really feel sorry for him.
It's like you.
Know that, like he's not a bad guy, Like he doesn't like he's not a good guy, but he's like other than this fucked up ship he's doing, he's like polite people he cares about. Like, I don't think he's a psychopath. Listen, like was he programmed to kill?
I have watched many a fucking interview of Jeffrey Dahmer, a real interview where he's really talking and he's really in prison, not a documentary, not.
A red I watched.
If you met him, you would not think.
You might think he was You might think he was a little weird maybe, but like he was.
I think that about fucking multiple people multiple times a day doesn't mean they're super.
A softness about know and like a sincere and a genuine like.
Well, I used to work with a guy at the soap company where I make soap, and he was like.
That, a soft, gentle kind of.
Stuff, like he cared, but he just kind of came off as weird. But he was really like into like wanting everything to be cool with everybody all the time. But I also thought, like I could see that guy getting caught bodying.
Okay, but honey, hear me out. You know that show I was watching yesterday about the psychopaths or whatever, and I said, it's less about the killers and more about the psychopathy. Jeffrey doesn't even fit any of those profiles of a psychopath. Like you, if you watch the interviews of all these psychopaths, they're lining up to show you all these traits about Jeffrey did not fit that profile
of a psychopath. That's unfeeling, unremorseful. He always said that he regretted what he did, he knew it was wrong, he felt bad about it, and I think in some way he actually felt love for the people that he was murdering, which is a psychopath.
Yeah, the ones that he was romantically You mentioned the deaf guy, but there was a few and I in the movie you can see it, but you can actually, like.
Julia just said, see it yourself.
There's interviews where he's saying he didn't want to ever let that person go, and he thought that if he killed dominate them, that they would always be a part of him.
Does that fit the psychopath profile half of it?
Does He's able, He's able to fucking just willing nilli kill these people.
The murder part, yes, I guess.
But then he's also like really invested in, like being attached to these people, and he he's one of the weird ones. And I might be stepping a little ahead here, but when he gets caught, he's fucking faces down on the ground, he's in handcuffs, he's already starting to fucking
spill the beans. YEA ever fucking deny a goddamn thing it In fact, he was too honest, like you could also you could also you could just say, yeah, I killed this person, But then you don't have to sit down with a prison psychiatrist and say I fucked their intestines.
I grilled up with asparagus.
The human sashimi style, just little slits of ass, you know. I mean, he's so it's almost like he's an op in a way that he doesn't even know. Like he's just going in depth.
This is getting printed in the media.
He's talking about fucking necrophilia, cannibalism, just the.
People's brains with myriadic acid.
I mean, he is a goddamn walking horror story. And the reason it's so scary is because you'd see him in the fucking chopping mall and not think twice about him.
You might just think that guy's weird.
At the very worst, you think that, But it's almost like the perfect If he is indeed one and he's part of this programming, I would say they like nailed it with him.
Yeah, he is like the perfect serial killer.
See. I always said that out of the three big ones, we talk about, Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer. Did we talk about this in the last episode or was a private conversation we're having where I said Dahmer was always the.
One that got me the most. Yeah, And I thought you said Bundy, but.
Well he was the first one I was introduced.
Maybe that's why it gets because Jeffrey was my thing.
He sticks with me.
It was you never forget your first right.
He sticks with me the most out of all of them. But I was first introduced to Ted. And it's like you said, before we get too far into jeff I do have some stuff that I want to kind of go over and sum up about Ted before we move on. And it's some more some more inconsistencies and shit. And it's like we were talking about with the interview. Could he have just been like a patsy guy? Could he have been an actor? Is he really responsible for half this shit? Some of it doesn't even make sense that
he could have been. And before we jump into it, I do want to say for those of you who are listening to this, if you're sick and tired of the ads, if you just can't take it, you're gonna want to go over to Patreon, where it's ad free, you get early access, and you get bonus content. I think that's true of the Cults Patreon as well. But for the Cosmic Peach Patreon listeners, you'll get ad free early releases on all the episodes, and you'll get extra shit too, So I get it. The ads suck, but
it is what it is. I want to get into something that was actually mentioned in the Ted Bundy interview. He was talking about a girl, Carol Duranch, that was
abducted from the shopping mall. She's the only survivor that we know of, and he called her a professional witness in that interview, and that kind of stuck with me because what if she is she's one of the ones who said that she got abducted by him and the school kidnapping happened at the same time, but it's physically impossible for him to have been episodes no, remember from the last episode this was like in Utah, and she got supposedly abducted at the shopping mall at the same
time the girl from the school got abducted, and they happened within fifteen minutes of each other. But there's no way to be in those two places within fifteen minutes of each other. And they also described completely different people at both of the scenes. So in the interview with Ted Bundy, he calls Carol Durant a fucking professional witness.
And meaning an actor.
Yeah, and she delivered testimony that was riddled with discrepancies and inconsistencies. She was unable to decide if her would be abductor had a mustache or not, among other things, and she told the court that his car had been white or tan, although she had initially told the police that it was blue. And in the Netflix zach Efron movie, they even alluded to the fact that she was told to choose Ted out of a lineup and that they fed her information. Do you remember that from the Netflix
Ted Bundy? They were like, how the guy that played his attorney, he's like a famous actor.
I can't talk about the front because it's funny because.
They made the the Ted Bundy documentary. The tapes came out right before the movie. It's the same director.
That makes a lot of sense, but.
It's verbatim, a fictionalized account of his documentary.
I don't remember who played a lawyer.
Well, he was like, how did you choose my client out of a lineup? And she was like no, but that's how he sounded. And UH was like they no.
Billy Crystal, No, I'm just getting random now.
Uh, But she said they told me to. They put that in the movie, so I think that was interesting.
Well, even if it's not part of the story, it is part of the story if that's what they're putting in there.
And during a break in the preliminary proceedings, Ted purportedly escaped after being conveniently left unguarded by jumping out an open window and strolling down the street. Ted then quickly and improbably found his way to an empty cabin that happened to be stocked with what fucking food, clothing, a rifle,
of flashlight batteries, blankets, and first aid fucking supplies. He allegedly entered the cabin by prying loose the wire mesh that had been applied to the windows for security, though a caretaker later said that it would have taken superhuman strength to do that with bare hands, as Ted claimed to have done, so that's obviously improbable. What do you think about his escape and fucking finding this cabin and.
Shit, Well, I don't know if I'm getting ahead here, but the story is that he wanders back into town all disoriented. To me, if this is a real story with a real badass, which let's not say for his misgivings that he wasn't a fucking animal, he finds this cabin with a gun, food, blank blankets, warm clothing. He can't just fucking go to another town and start over like any real.
Serial killer would.
I always thought this part was a little part of the scripted narrative, like he escaped not just once either, there's a time later on that he escapes. So to me, it's another part of the fear campaign, like we got the monster, but fuck he keeps getting out.
It almost sounded to me like they that, let's just say it was part of the scare tactics. They probably had that fucking cabin like set up for him.
Well, even that could be part of it.
But if this is as deep as it.
Could be, he jumped out of a window.
He could have just fucking like done that and then strolled in the woods and been picked up by the CIA and a fucking helicopter and they're like, all right, in about five days, Ted or Jack, we're sending you back into that town, all disheveled, and then you're gonna enter the fucking show again, and you're gonna go to trial, and you're gonna go down to Florida. And I don't know the whole thing is really you use the word improbable a couple times.
Yeah, it is.
They say that to get into that cabin it would have taken superhuman strength. Yet Ted was able to jump out of a window, run through the wilderness, pry open this wire mesh on this cabin that just happened to be stocked with all the things that he would need to survive for a couple of days. Then he wanders back into the same town to get recaptured. Are you kidding me? Does that sound like some badass cereal killering?
Not really, No, it sounds like And by the way, if they're watching him like they're supposed to be doing, how the fun did get out the window?
The whole thing in the first place is very weird. He's making copies in the library, something unattended, and there's just a window that you can open and jump out of.
Uh huh, I mean a cabin that's just full of supplies.
There's a reason that in the you know, pop culture sphere nineteen fifties to nineteen eighties. Nineteen eighties kind of made a change. Maybe it started in the seventies where the cops started to look like badasses, but they're usually just bumbling idiots, And I mean this kind of just like, oh yeah, some fucking guard was thought it would be a good idea to walk away from Ted and let him make copies in a room that had an open window one story up where anybody could.
Jump out, and he sticks his landing, runs down and find this is just all. But he was eventually captured from his first fucking escape, and with his trial set to begin on j Ainuary ninth, nineteen seventy eight, Ted again managed to escape from his captors. This time, he allegedly climbed through a twelve inch square hole in the ceiling of his.
Cell, just like Bruce Willison. I heard pretty.
Much which he had cut with a hacksaw, raising the obvious question of one, where did he get a fucking hacksaw from.
He found it in that cabin and he jammed it up his ass.
And two how was he able to noiselessly hack through this fucking steel plate without anyone noticing. It's just like the cabin in the first escape. He's got fucking a hacksaw and tools and fucking shit in his cell and he's able to hack through the ceiling a twelve y twelve inch hole in the ceiling fucking climbed up there. Nobody noticed the damn thing. This this sound? I mean, I don't know. He's almost as if they've set it up for him to be this crazy fucking ah.
Yeah, Like I said, the CIA could have just picked him up out of the woods. Was he ever really in a cell? Did he escaped from or is that the story?
They put it on the news and they showed the hole, so it must be real, right.
I see holes in the news all the time.
Insane. So once in the crawl space above his cell, he somehow scurried over to the space above a deputy's empty apartment, lowered himself down into a closet, and then he casually strolled out the door to freedom. A prison snitch is said to have repeatedly reported hearing Ted moving around in the crawl space at night, but nothing was ever done. Looking at this on its face, it should
be evident that this was purposeful in some way. And the only reason I say that is because let's just say he was in a cell, and he did have a hacksaw, and he did hacksaw fucking hole in the ceiling, and he did get into the jailer's apartment through the closet, and he did stroll out right through the front door, and there was a prison snitch who kept complaining that he was here in head hacking this shit, and they didn't do anything about it. Do you not feel like
this was by design? That he was able to escape twice in like such a short period of time. And then after this second escape is when he went to town on the fucking Kyomega girls.
Well, I think that him escaping twice, If you're saying like he's not a part of it, that just made it easy for him. I think it's more likely that he was in on it, and he isn't this independently acting serial killer. He's not really part of a satanic cult. He's part of the cult intelligence agency.
And he's an.
Actor playing a guy who never really existed. He didn't have a fucking birth certificate. His fucking past as murky as all hell, and then they try to sprinkle the weirdness of his past with the basic bitch ass formula of serial killers. His mom fucked people in front of him, she was a prostitute, she was really mean to him. Maybe sure sounds good on paper, but all this just seems like a fucking bad movie, and so I don't think it was conveniently set up for him to escape.
If we're going to go that far, it could all just be a fucking lie. And there's this guy that's Ted Bundy that they put in front of the camera on the news.
That's my take.
I mean, I would I would agree with you, But I mean so.
And maybe people really died, Like I'm not saying these women at the sorority house didn't die because well, like John Gusty told us.
The bodies are real, but the people.
Can be characters.
There can be all sorts of characters involved, but a lot of times real people die in these psyops.
Well that yeah, for sure. But I mean looking into this, in the research behind this shit, it makes you wonder how well it doesn't make you wonder how people believe it. But it's like, damn, if more people knew about this, nobody would believe in these serial killers.
Yeah, I don't know, because it to me, it's not an either or. It's a lot of it's real and a lot of it is you know, Hollywood eyed and put in front of our eyes to never forget. I mean, as soon as this shit dies down, Netflix comes on with a fucking documentary series on all of these serial killers, because well, what's more relevant today than it was? A've read after it happened. More people now know about this than when it actually going on, So the fear does live on the.
What did you show me the other day about John Ramsey's trying to do fucking interviews? Still in twenty twenty four, John Ramsey is still talking about new leads in John Benet's case.
Yeah, I think it was The New York Post.
On December twenty seventh, they released breaking news in the cold case of John Beney Ramsey and her dad's up there given a statement.
Fuck him, dude. They're never going to crack the case because we all know what really went down. If you haven't, you need to listen to Hey, you know what, I got a fucking message from someone through my link tree, and you know, thanks to anybody who reaches out. I do appreciate your feedback. Again, if you want to send me a question or something, you can go on Instagram
and contact me through the link tree. But they asked me about my John bene Ramsey episodes in series I've done on her, and they said that they thought it started in twenty nineteen. I'm pretty sure that was Human Vibrations. My first episode came out in twenty twenty two on John Benet. And yeah, I mean there's a lot of crazy theories out there. I don't think any of them are wrong or right, are perfect. You're gonna have to aim for the middle on some of that shit, But yeah,
they're still sensationalizing John Benet, So why not Ted? Why not Dahmer? Why not Gacy? But anyways, once free from the second escape, Bundy this time was somehow able to quickly locate a car that just happened to be outfitted with a set of studded radial tires, which would have been a necessity for the snow covered roads he would be facing. And it also happened to have the keys already in the adnition. So it's just like the cat that was stocked with supplies and fucking is like they've
set it up for success. And this time Ted wasted no fucking time getting out of town. By the time his disappearance was discovered at noon the next day, he was already in Chicago. Seems his stolen car didn't get him very far though it apparently broke down on the way to Vail. Luckily, though, he was picked up, and he then traveled by bus from Vail to Denver, and then by plane from Denver to Chicago. Once in Chicago,
he stole another car and drove it to Atlanta. From there, he made his way to Tallahassee, Florida, somehow acquiring a new identity along the way. Chris Hagen, That is how the official story reads. Anyways, is this not fucking hard to believe? Given his escape seemed to have been helped quite a bit?
Believe?
I mean, we got planes, trains, fucking new identities. Yeah, he's getting How did he get? How did he have money to fly?
A pallid questions?
And after his disappearance was announced, wouldn't they have like checked some type of ida or some shit. This just seems improbable. It seems improbable that he was able to get to Florida in this manner.
I don't buy it.
I think they picked him up outside of the prison or the jail or wherever he escaped from and took him straight to Florida.
I mean that would be where my mind would.
Go instead of this whole His car broke down and veiled, and veiled to Denver, then Denver to Chicago, and then somehow he got to Atlanta, fucking stole another car, got a new identity, then ended up in Florida. Like does this I know, I get it, Like he's supposed to be like this crazy serial killer and like whatever, he's got superhuman powers, I guess, But it.
Seems he's a shape shifter ish.
I don't know.
They say he's a shape shifter too, I mean the whole thing. That's a really good comic book idea.
Yeah, but so. On January fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight, the infamous slaughter took place at the Kyomega sorority House on the campus of the University of Florida at Tallahassee. What's crazy is that this crime did not bear even the slightest resemblance to any of the previous crimes attributed to Ted Bundy, and was actually reminiscent of the attack twelve years earlier that had been attributed to Richard Speck, which
we covered in the Program to Kill series. Colby mentioned it in an earlier episode, but it appeared Ted suddenly changed his mo from an occasional bludgeoning and strangulation, maybe a little necro stuff to a full blown balls to the Walt slaughterhouse killing. It just didn't match. And so out in the open too, because he liked seclusion with all of the other victims they were taking up into
the mountains and shit. This one was just like he went in with a club and just started busting pitches over the head.
Yeah, it's whack them all.
I mean maybe if you want to follow the official narrative, I like to entertain these ideas. Maybe he had been incarcerated and he'd been on the run and his fucking Dark Passenger was just at such blue balls he just had to fucking go full BOUKACKI and just grab a club with a fucking claw hammer on the end of it and just start fucking going ape shit in the sorority. I mean, why is that funny?
That's it?
I mean, since you mentioned Dark Passenger, I just have to say, for any of you out there who watched Dexter, the new one, the original sin were how many episodes in four it's so fucking good five stars. If you love Dexter, you need to watch it. It's really good.
This episode is brought to you by paramount plus showtime.
So anyways, the Cayo Mega Sorority House, right, four girls were brutally bludgeoned in the early morning hours. Two of them died from their injuries. A fifth girl was subsequently attacked at another location not far away. The first attack at the Kyomega house occurred just after three am and
was over in just fifteen minutes. And somehow, in that brief period of time, a single assailant, supposedly Ted Beehole, was allegedly able to go room to room, locating and viciously beating four women, in addition to raping and sodomizing two of them. So, actually, my question to you is, if he assaulted five girls in under fifteen minutes and he acted alone, is he is he busting a nut in all five of them? Because he says it took him fifteen minutes he raped and sodomized. Okay, wait, two
of them. He raped and sodomized two out of the five, but he beat the other four and it took him just fifteen minutes to accomplish all of that. His daddy Ben Seamers.
The Ted Bundy Saga brought to you by bluetoo. I mean, he apparently had to have a boner pill. Even the official narrative that his dark passenger had blue ball.
Still, fifteen minutes he did that.
He's a porn star.
He went fucked all the people he killed.
I didn't know that he fucked.
Them all in fifteen minutes.
They say, wow, that's impressive.
But doesn't that he supposedly acted alive.
He came on every one of them in That's.
What I'm saying, Honey, does that seem realistic to you?
Maybe it's my insecurity speaking, but nobody could do that, not even Ted fifteen minutes old.
Was he he was in his thirties. No, yes, here he was.
I'm saying, no, it's not okay. I mean, maybe he was a superhuman. He could rip through wire mesh outside cabins. He could bust nuts five and fifteen minutes. He must have really enjoyed fucking whack them all at the sorority house. That's just yeah, that's fucking okay. We talk about maybe.
There's more than one.
Or that sometimes it's just a flat out lie. But yeah, no guy's gonna bust fucking five nuts in fifteen minutes.
But it has to be that way in order for him to get to the other location where the other person got raped. So that's six in half an.
Hour, well five and five and fifteen minutes? Why not six?
It just so I'm laughing, and I'm I know, like, I want to know what it doesn't make sense.
I want to know what he was eating. Right, I'm gonna start that diet.
Okay. Now, one of the sorority sisters need a near He caught a very brief glimpse of an intruder quote unquote in the house.
Was he leaving a trail snow of semen after bumping five nuts.
So, she said she caught a glimpse of him as he was leaving out the front door. She only saw his profile and described him as wearing a beanie pulled down low over his face maybe, and she said his most noticeable feature was a large nose. Nita had just arrived home at three am from a campus party and
was probably turned to some degree, let's be real. Although the state claimed that its star witness was totally sober on the night of the attack, but under hypnosis, she later said that the intruder closely resembled the sorority's houseboy who looked nothing like Ted at all.
Okay, so maybe a sorority of five drunken men busted five nuts and they blamed it on Ted and beat them whatever was done that night.
Well, Nita is the only one who says she saw him, but she happened to be at a fucking party till three am. Well, and they're saying she was sober and she could remember everything. My fucking ass, there's no way.
But then under I don't know what you call it, like, yeah, but it's like it's.
Got another name, cast life regression.
Yeah, regressive hypnotherapy.
Yeah, I would assume she's fucking all of a sudden saying that it looks like the sorority houseboy. So just maybe this was a real crime and Ted had nothing to do with it and it was a bunch of drunken college kids getting their come uppings.
I don't know, but so another sorority sister, Carol Johnston, was only asleep that night for a total of five minutes from three fourteen am until three nineteen am, when she was awakened by Anita, the drunk bitch from earlier and others coming home from the party. But get this, even though she was completely awake all night except for five fucking minutes, she didn't see or hear anything out
of the ordinary. According to her, two bitches getting sodomized a room over from her, and she didn't hear a peep of a sound all night.
Really sounds of sodomy silence.
Like you telling me he's over there raping and sodomizing two girls right down from her room. She heard nothing. She basically said she was awake all night.
Maybe he did it from three fourteen to three nineteen when she was asleep.
So within five minutes he rape. That's even more retarded that he busted two nuts, raped and sodomized.
Them five nuts one nut.
Per Is this really and this is really real? This is what we're really supposed to believe. And why, Like, let's say that she isn't like a like a fake witness and she's being honest. They were killed somewhere else and then brought there or not at all or.
Not at all, I don't know.
I mean, you could stage something like this, You could kill a bunch of people like this, like you said, and just bring in the bodies. But yeah, all the details are just a little too murky to line up.
So the first officers were on the scene by three twenty three a m. Just minutes after the surviving, dazed and bloodied victims had staggered out of their rooms. The officers were quickly joined by a virtual army of city police,
campus police, and county sheriff's deputies. The streets surrounding the house were filled with squad cars, detective vehicles, ambulances, and a hearse Nearly forty distraught Sorority sisters were standing around in the house, many of them with blood dripping from their hands from their efforts to assist the others, and joining the fucking circus was actually a bunch of curiosity seekers who were literally allowed to enter in fucking rome
freely around in the house. Needless to say, the crime scene was hopelessly compromised before any serious investigation could even begin, So essentially, the crime scene was a fucking There was no way they were collecting good evidence from that crime scene. They have neighbors, they have forty Sorority sisters, they have fucking people who are just walking by. Fuck, They're all allowed to go in the house and trade around. It just seems retarded to me.
I agree.
Okay, So here's another thing. Since we're blue Choo is sponsoring this fucking episode, the Bundy Blue Choo, that's what it's called ten percent off with code Bundy's Beehole. So key evidence was destroyed at the scene because of the shit I just said. There was a bunch of people traps in around and the evidence that was preserved tended to point away from Bundy as the likely perpetrator, like what well, for example, Seeman found in the bed of Sheryl Thomas, the fifth victim proved to be from a
non secretor, effectively ruling out Bundy as the donor. What is a fucking non secretor well, non secretor is sperm from someone who has a genetic trait that prevents them from secreting their blood type antigens into their bodily fluids, including jizz. Right, and only twenty percent of men in the world are affected by this, so it should have narrowed the suspect list considerably and ruled out Ted Beehole. That's something that no one talks about. This should have
been like easy. As soon as they saw that Ted didn't have this condition, they should have ruled him out immediately.
Maybe she came home from a party where she was secreted with the non secretor guy.
But so that would mean that Ted didn't rape them.
Then, I mean, you can get fucked and then raped later in.
The night, but they the share. So the other victims didn't have this same one, but they still attribute Ted to raping and murdering all of them.
I think we just kind of pointed out how impossible.
Yeah, no, it is impossible. But I mean it doesn't stop there, because chewing gum that was discovered in one of the victim's hair that could literally have yielded both saliva and bitemark evidence was also destroyed, and saliva that would have likely been present around an alleged bite wound in the butt cheek of another victim was swapped away at the scene. I know you're familiar with that, the
whole bitemark evidence stuff. So they wiped that clean, and now it brings us to the elusive bite mark that's used in the Kyomega trial. If you guys have kept up with true crime stuff at all or watched the uh the Zach Effron on Netflix, you'll remember this. But the actual bite wound was allegedly photographed at the crime scene, but the photos that were later produced in the trial were not the originals taken with the medical examiner's camera.
Why well, it's said that the fucking medical examiner's camera somehow malfunctioned. So the photos that were provided are not only not the originals, but they are also said to be taken and supplied by a quote crime scene specialist end quote after the fact, so obviously they are altered photos. It's just like when Maryland's body went missing after it got to the Morgan then all of her fucking internal organs were missing after that, you know how I always
talk about that shit. So they take the photos of the BYTEmark, supposedly the medical examiner's camera fucked up. They went back and they basically staged the bite mark and took new photos of it with a different camera. What do you think about that? Par for the course, And it doesn't stop there, because this section of skin that contained the incriminating bite mark was excised and placed in a saline solution. But wouldn't you know, unfortunately it was
destroyed in the process. So we don't have the original photos of the bitemark, and we don't have the actual bitemark itself. Why they felt it was necessary to actually cut it out of her butt and put it into a solution is beyond me, because if they needed to look at it or examine it in any way, they would have just left it on her body, right they cut They went the extra mile of cutting it off and then putting it in a saline solution. But ooopsie,
that was the fucking acid solution. It's fucking dissolved. Sorry. Another inconsistency about the crime scene that was first observed by one of the first officers on the scene was Ray Cruz. He said that Lisa Levi's body when he discovered it was cool to the touch, but according to the official version of events, she had supposed to be dead for just a few minutes, which would not have been long enough for her body to have noticeably cooled.
So it kind of goes along with the theory that I was talking about earlier, and maybe all these bitches was killed somewhere else and then brought inside the house, which would make sense why they have different sperm in each of them and nobody heard a fucking noise all night. But you know what else is fucking weird. Not long after the bloody rampage in Tallahassee, twelve year old Kimberly Leech disappeared from Lake City Junior High School in broad
daylight amid heavy rush hour traffic. Was found two months later, completely drained of blood. The cause of death was listed as homicidal violence to the neck region. The day after her disappearance, coincidentally or otherwise, Ted Bundy's name was added to the FBI's ten most Wanted list. At this time, there was absolutely no indication that Ted had anything to
do with the Florida murders. First off, they certainly didn't match his mo and secondly, there was no reason to suspect that Bundy was anywhere near the state of Florida. So why are they It's kind of like, you remember the conference, and then like the next couple of days they identify him at the park, and then somebody just happens to give his name to the police, and then he just happens to fucking be able to escape twice. Now they just happen to add his name to the list.
After all these Tennessee or not to see, all these Florida murders go down. It's like they know something we don't.
They know that they're going to pin it on him, right, you see.
It's kind of like they already have this hole. It's like the story and Ted Beehole was arrested shortly after the Kyomega murders, bearing yet another new name, Kenneth Meisner. And wouldn't you like to know? Ted actually spent his last night of freedom in a wooded area of the Elgin Air Force Base, which is a restricted military facility.
He had in his car at the time an array of credit and identification cards, as well as several photos of young girls and young women, So he's able to somehow get on a restricted military facility to spend the night and pops up with new credit cards, new ID and a fucking new fucking name and hello. Seems like he was touching base with him before the whole review went down. If you ask me, what do you think? Yeah, a restricted military facility.
Really, it's just funny that that information's out there, like who reported that?
I found it on a website and it's also mentioned in Program to Kill?
But why is there a record of him having been there? That's the weird.
Part, because he's I think they asked him where he was, and he said Elgin Air Force Base.
So that's his testimony, I guess, So it.
Just doesn't fit the rest of the narrative.
So, while Ted was in Pensacola, they went in to basically get some time have a statement from him, and he said he wanted to talk without counsel, and they interrogated him, and this interrogation was taped, but later on Ted's public defenders said that they had been refused entry into the interrogation room, that Ted never said he wanted to speak without counsel, And it just so happens that these tapes that were recorded were conveniently filled with gaps,
supposedly due to the tape recorder malfunctioning. But it only happened to malfunction quote unquote whenever Ted was supposedly making incriminating statements, and none of the confessional statements as they're called, were recorded, but detectives swore that Ted made them, and we're just supposed to take them for their word for it, although then basically all the tapes are intact except for the part where he's supposedly confessing to the murders. And
I just thought that was pretty convenient. There were some interesting bits of the conversation that were recorded, though, including this exchange. A police interrogator said, where'd you get the money that you used after your escape to travel across the country from and Ted said, while, man, there's other people. Other people are in on it, which also reminded me of Gazy, who said at nauseum that there were other people involved, but nobody takes their word for it. It's
like they have to be lying. There's no way other people are involved in this shit.
Well, yeah, they're willing to say that much, but they're not willing to drop names, or if they are, it's not part of the public record. There are gaps in the testimony. Who knows he could have been saying all sorts of shit.
That's right, if they're real.
If they're real, and think about it. Who played a part in the investigation and prosecution of Ted Bundy. Well we have Herb Swindler, the head of the homicide division and the father of Bundy's first girlfriend, Kathy Swindler. Then we have Daris Swindler, the forensics expert who examined the alleged victims remains in Washington. Who happens to be in fucking Tallahassee on the night of the Kyle Mega murders for no explainable reason.
What's the.
Yeah, And then we have good old Vernon Swindler, who was a fucking juror in the fucking Kyle Mega trial.
Those Swindlers keep swindling us.
Nothing unusual about that, right, Swindler is a good fucking name for this family. Because we have his first girlfriend is Kathy Swindler. Her father, Herb, just happens to be the head of homicide for Bundy's rampage. Then Daris shows up in Tallahassee on the night of the Kyomega murders, and then Vernon Swindler gets to be a juror on the fucking Kyomega trial. So, I mean, that just seems so fucking convoluted to me that I don't know why
people haven't discovered this before. Now, Like, literally, that shouldn't even be allowed that his first girlfriend and a juror on the Kyomega trial are related.
Not to mention the other two.
Yeah, what about the fact that Ted's defense team included a quote unquote jury expert who was actually an Atlanta hypnotist named Emil Spillman. And how about the notorious bitemark evidence. Well, it was presented to the jury even though, as we mentioned before, the actual bite wound itself and the original photos had been destroyed. I know what you're thinking, The bittemark looked like it matched Bundy, right, I know I thought the same thing. And if you're like me, you've
seen pieces of the trial in documentaries and movies. Do you remember in the trial when doctor Richard Soberon said this quote, I took models from the casting of Bundy's teeth, and I went to the morgue and I pressed the models into the buttocks region on different individuals and photographed them.
He literally said in court that the pictures that they were providing that were supposedly Lisa Levi's ass cheek were dead people in the morgue, that he took the casting and pressed it into the skin to make the mark. So that wasn't even the fucking, the fucking pictures that they were seeing. Weord Bundy's teeth that had been pressed into random dead people's asses. It wasn't even Leeza Levy.
Well, from what I understand, bite mark evidence, when it's in flesh isn't even it'll be the wayside. It's not going to be admissible in court because it's not a thing.
But do you remember I fought you on that because I said the bite mark looked like it could match Ted Bundy's teeth. Well, that's why it really was Ted Bundy's teeth on random dead asses in the Morgue.
Still, the whole thing, I don't know. I don't think that. Yeah, you could bite like a piece of wood and get a perfect imprint, but you're.
Talking about swelling and bruising and skin is just different. Yeah, I guess so. But even if it I'm just saying, even if it was real bitemark evidence and they were trying to put those two pieces together, they were doing a shit job of it anyways, because they didn't even
have the actual they destroyed it. So something else that was weird to me was the speech the judge gave to Bundy at the end of the Kyo Mega trial was almost as if he actually felt sorry for him, And it never made sense to me if the judge believed, as the jury had just convicted him of, he was a mass brutal murderer, So why he was so sympathetic towards him I really don't understand, and listening back to it with a different perspective, it makes more sense, almost
like the judge knew Bundy had accepted his role as the patsy and was going down with the thinking and ship, even though it was clear he wasn't the perpetrator. I do want to play a clip of this speech he gave to ed Bundy. But do you remember it. I'm not asking for mercy before.
I find it somewhat.
Absurd to ask for mercy for something I did not do.
So I will be tortured for and will suffer for it, and receive the pain for that act, but I will.
Not share the burden for the guilt.
This court independent off.
But in agreement with the Advisor's sentence rendered by the jury, it is hereby imposed the death pending upon the defendant, Theodore Robert Bundy. I carry yourself, young man.
Thank you.
I say that to you, since if carry yourself, it's a tragedy for this court to see. It's such a total waste. I think the humanity that I've experienced in this court. You're a bright young man. You made a good lawyer. I'd love to have you practice in front of him, which do you want to know, the white.
Partner, what did you think of that?
Well, it's just like you said, it's very theatrical. I don't know if it was real, if the judge was like sympathetic towards him for the reasons you're saying, or if it was just you know, it makes good TV.
He was like, I'm sorry, partner, you went a different way.
And yeah, I remember it from the documentary very well, where I don't know the guy seemed to like him.
Yeah, but if you he just got convicted of brutally murdering five girls, any which could have been your daughter, your sister, or and he's almost like feel sorry for him, Like would you give that speech to someone who just murdered five bitches? Or like if you thought he was innocent and he was going down with a crime he didn't commit, that sounded like the speech he got.
Yeah, either way, it was very dramatic. The documentaries are just full of stuff like that.
But so in January nineteen eighty he was back in court to again face murder charges, this time for the death of Kimberly Leech. There was virtually no chance of him receiving a fair trial, since his name recognition in Orange County, where he was being tried, was said to have been at ninety eight percent, So.
All of the jurors.
Already knew who he was and that he had been convicted to death for the Kyomega murders. Then all of the states started coming together Utah, Colorado, Washington, fucking all these and they were all like it were, it's Ted. All of these murders are Ted. And so by the time the fucking Kimberly Leech trial came around, everyone already wanted Ted to be the bad guy.
Well where could he have had a fair trial?
Yeah?
No shit, because he was a household name of this.
He was one of the first ones they ever televised, or maybe the first one that was ever televised. I think I remember that from the Ted Bundy tapes. He was the first televised murder trial in history. So isn't that convenient? And then of course he's going to go down with Kimberly Leach. So that the evidence that they
had for the I'm just gonna sum it up. The evidence that they had for the trial for Kimberly Leach was some fibers they found in a van that Ted reportedly stole, but there was no evidence to suggest that he ever stole the van. The fibers in the van didn't suggest that Ted was ever in there. The fingerprints didn't belong to him that were found in the van. There was this detective guy who said he saw Bundy
in the area. But this detect this guy was later hypnotized and questioned and it wasn't fucking Ted at all, and so they and then during the trial, Ted fucking did this theatrical he asked that crazy lady to marry him and shit. In the middle of the trial. Everybody hated him. They made him out to be the bad guy, right. It took the jury forty five minutes to deliver yet
another death sentence. On February ninth, the second anniversary of Kimberly Leech's disappearance, and following the verdict, Ted was sent to occupy a cell right next to that of our good old friend Otis Tool. So it's like a full circle moment for the Cosmic Peach podcast. He uh, he was right next to Otis Stool, which actually I never knew that.
I don't think I did.
So did you have anything to add about Kimberly Leach other than the fact that it didn't match his IMO whatsoever.
Well, it's the one that I talked about before where the timing of it was impossible.
Yeah, that was another thing.
He couldn't have done both. I just want to reiterate on that fact, because if he was playing below your Load five times in fifteen minute, whack them all at the fucking chi Omega Sorority, how the fuck was he doing this kidnapping in broad daylight and rush hour traffic. He couldn't have done both if either.
And also didn't match his em O. She was way younger than all the other victims, she was drained of blood, she was sounds.
More like a lot of the cult shit that was going on. Uh huh, then, uh huh.
But he's the bad guy. They've televised it, they put him on the ten most wanted list. It has to be him because that Ted's the bad guy, and this is the bad.
Guy of the story, Theodora Patsy Bundy.
Yeah, and throughout the nineteen eighties, long long after Ted Bundy had been locked up and tossed out, women continue to vanish in and around the Seattle area, as many as one hundred of them by some counts, many of them underage, and just like that, we got a new bad guy with a bitch and moniker. As these killings were attributed to the so called Green River Killer, who has never been caught to this day. So it's kind
of like we were saying with Zodiac. As Zodiac was fizzling out, Ted Bundy was actually on a plane to San Francisco, spent some time there, then comes back and becomes Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy gets locked up, and just like that, we have the Green River Killer.
And then Dahmer around the corner.
Right.
So, I mean, I don't know what you think about this, but it's seeming to be an actual fucking pattern.
Life is nothing but Netflix, and we get a new series and when one ends, the next one begins.
You know what's funny, I haven't really watched that much shit on the Green River Killer, maybe because they never caught him. Could the Green River Killer be fucking LinkedIn with the Smiley Face killers? Do you think as I alluded to with John Wayne Gacy?
Maybe I don't know.
And also some of those Ted Bundy victims, remember I said that they found out they had been kept somewhere for a long period of time and then drained of blood and all this other shit. It's like all of these shits could be Smiley Face in my mind. But I do want to say before we move on, that we talk a lot, and I've said this before about how serial killers are probably like CIA trained, programmed to
kill and all of this and blah. I do believe there are genuine authentic serial killers though, because watching that show last night, there's thousands of serial killers that never even their names, don't even see the.
Light of day.
They're just like, oh, another crazy Stloney and then that's it.
It's like we've talked about throughout this entire thing, the phenomenon itself could have been orchestrated intentionally, or it could have.
Been you know, controlled blowback.
But you get all these kids in these military preschool bases that go through satanic ritual abuse, some of them are going to become serial killers. It doesn't take much to push damaged kids over the edge.
Yeah.
So, and some people might be able to take this abuse without just fall on fucking exploding and going crazy. Many probably can't. So to say that every single one of these things.
Is a syop. I mean that's a little naive in my.
Opinion, And you know, some people probably think I'm naive for saying that some of it is.
Yeah, I don't know. It's definitely something though. It has a pattern, and I think the ones that get like these bitch and monikers and shit are the ones like Son of Sam and then fucking Zodiac and fucking you know, those are the ones that we should yeah, you know, but night ser night stalker. Uh huh. I do want to take a minute kind of switching gears and talk about the phenomenon of the collectors. And there are actually
quite a few. One of our favorite collectors is is uh Jeff, but there are a couple other ones that never really get mentioned a lot, and I just wanted to talk about them briefly before we get into the Dahmer stuff, if that's okay with you. So uh. This guy, Leonard Lake was a collector. He started collecting in the San Francisco area in July nineteen eighty four. Bob Burdella was also a collector. He started collecting in Kansas City, Missouri,
also in July nineteen eighty four. Gary Heidnik was another collector. And he started collecting in Philadelphia in November nineteen eighty six. But out of all of them, it seems Jeffrey Dahmer is probably the best known of all the collectors, and he started collecting in Milwaukee in nineteen ninety, around the same time that her Bowmeister started collecting in Indianapolis. And so the phenomenon of the collectors is these people who have the fetish like Jeff where they just keep bodies
and they're usually gay. They keep bodies of men and boys for a long periods of time and they do weird shit with them. And actually her Bowmeister gay was taking boys back to his house, strangling them with a pool hose and then keeping their bodies around. And I found out about him through watching an episode of Ghost Adventures because they the people who moved into her Baumeister's
house that it's haunted as shit. But a lot of these names, Bob Burdella, Gary Heidnik, I mean, maybe Leonard Lake, I have maybe I had heard about him in passing before, but they were just as bad as Jeff and I don't think people talk about him much. And two of them started up in the same year.
Yeah, it's like Phase two point zero of Program to Kill. You got these guys popping up on the West Coast in the sixties and seventies, and now it's moving to the Midwest and it's on the whole new breed of serial killers.
Yeah, I kind of want you to watch. I doubt you will, but I kind of want you to watch the Ghost Adventures when they go to her Baumeister's house.
You can give me the cliff notes.
Man, they was catching some shit. They was catching some shit. You would think of place like that, like if Jeff's Dahmer's fucking apartment complex was They tore it down, but if it was still up and you could go visit in there, don't you feel like that would be a fucking haunted motherfucker. He had to have opened the portal tom shit.
Well, he had killed many there and he had an altar mm hmm.
Do you think that by doing stuff like that.
You can sure for the sake of argument? Why not?
Why for the sake of argument, Because.
I as far as metaphysical paranormal stuff goes.
I can't.
You're not into it, No I am, but I'm not willing to like say I know how this shit works.
Okay, but do you remember can I say about your DMT? Sure, do you remember when you told me and you took DMT that like you felt your body like pop up out, you popped up out of your body and you went into like another like you don't feel like somebody dying and going through that process over and over and over again in the same room would cause like some portal activity to open up.
Yeah, it said.
For the sake of argument, I'm willing to say that's all.
Possible, because like, don't you get like a huge DMT rush when you die, and like supposedly.
That's that's what they say.
Like how many people died in these horrible like drilled holes in their skull and shooted acid in there and fucking he was making pull pork sandwiches out of fucking people's asses and shit and like feeding it to people. Like all that shit went down in a one bedroom apartment he was. There's no way that if you walked in there you'd probably get the fucking chill.
Well, I mean you're saying that place was torn down, That area.
A playground on top of it.
Go sit in a swing what you feel there?
You can't just get rid of that kind of energy by tearing the building down.
I know, right, So you go down the slide, didn't you.
Maybe maybe you're gen boys over at ghost Hunting Adventures or whatever the fuck go sit in a swing set with their little.
Particle reader and thing E is that the Ghostbusters use? See what he sees?
But so briefly touching on some connections between the collectors, Heidnick was military, and actually, in January nineteen seventy nine, Jeffrey Dahmer joined the US Army and requested that he be trained as a military policeman.
Everybody's favorite people in the military is in the.
MP, but the army opted to send him to Fort sam Houston near San Antonio, Texas for training as a medic. When that training was completed, he was sent to an army hospital in West Germany to work as an orderly But I guess I didn't work out too well, and Jeffrey was released early with an honorable discharge. And he also returned with a craving for drinking fucking blood bags and human meat spaghetti. So I don't know what the fuck they had going on with the fucking military shit.
But if we're sticking with program to kill. What are your thoughts.
On that connection.
Well, there's a lot of people over in Germany who like human meat spaghetti. Well, they went missing and it was I've seen other podcasters and investigative journalists try to say that some of this stuff happened when Dahmer was.
Stationed there, got the fuck up.
And I can't cite any of that off the top of my head. It's kind of like The.
Clown and the Candy Man. I know, I listened to it.
I was lucky there's a podcast on it.
I've heard other people talk about this. I want to see a cool fucking thing.
I want to say Jay Diren might have been one of them. He's the one that talked about the Clown and the Candyman. But there's people who do speculate that he really did start this shit over in Germany when he was in the military, and then he came back here and they set him loose.
That's a brilliant theory. Another connection between the collectors would be that jeffries hometown of bath, Ohio was just fifteen miles from Bob Burdella's hometown of Cuyahoga Falls, which kind of seems odd that two collectors would be just fifteen
miles apart from each other. Bob Burdella, by the way, was a World War Two veteran and a member of the Knights of Columbus, So we have another military connection not only with Heidnik, but with Burdella and Jeffrey, and Bardella and Dahmer were only fifteen miles apart from each other. Before we move on, I'm from Ohio. I've been to all parts of Ohio. I don't know where the fuck jeff got his accent from.
Yeah, it's a weird amalgamation of accents. It almost sounds like Canadian or North Dakota Minnesola, DA.
But doesn't it make you wonder if even his backstory is not all the way because well, he doesn't sound like he's from Ohio.
His backstory is very interesting, and you know, it's one of those things that I first got into in this whole realm, and it's very dexter like, like his dad knows he's got him enemy, thinks he can channel it into taxidermy. And I remember thinking that out of all these people, Dahmer had the most quote.
Unquote normal upbringing when he really did not.
And I mean they even talk about some of his dad's testimony in some of the movies and documentaries where his mom was like on a plethora of psychiatric drugs when she was pregnant with them, and she never really loved him. He didn't get the physical affection that is required.
For a kid. Yeah, but I mean he almost said it like he'd be like, I'm going to the bar, Like that's not an Ohio accident.
No, it's like Midwest Canadian.
Yeah, so it's like Ted Bundy with no birth certificate. Where the fuck did Jeff really come from?
I don't know.
His dad doesn't sound like that, and neither does his mom. They don't say bar. I don't know.
So he sounds like he's from Fargo the movie.
Yeah, he sounds like fucking or.
What's the other one we just watched the other.
Night, Grandma's Grandma's Boy, Uh with the Bucky Bucky Lawrence Larson, Bucky Larson.
Nick Swartzen talks like Dahmer in that movie. Yes, and he's from Iowa.
His bomb and his dad don't sound like that. So where the fuck did he pick that up from? Bar?
Some people just talk weird.
I don't know. He was like I wanted to make an.
Author I wanted to worship Satan A.
I watched The Exorcist, and then I went to the bar.
Not the Exorcist, the Exorcist part tool.
So. Jeff was born in nineteen sixty, the son of a research chemist with PPG Industries. His father, Lionel Dahmer PhD, admitted that he, as a boy, had been fascinated with fire in the art of bomb making, and recalled that at thirteen he had wanted to hypnotize a girl so that he could control her entirely. Lionel Dahmer also.
Said, who hasn't wanted to do that?
I mean, you do stop. Lionel also said that Jeff had been molested at the age of eight by a neighborhood boy. So do you think Dahmer's dad was into some weird shit. I mean, he's this PhD guy who wants the rape girls, it sounds like, and is fascinated with bombs. He is working as a research chemist with some weird company. And this is how Jeff turns out.
Well, it seems like with Lionel's testimony and some of the stuff you've seen in the fictional.
Recreation of all this story.
He tends to blame himself on what level we don't know, Like if he feels like he passed some shit on to Jeff or he didn't handle his fascination with death in the right way, but.
He's stuck by him till the end.
Yeah, he did, and he did kind of take on some kind of like responsibility for how he turned out. I don't know how deep that could go. You'd have to talk to the guy. He's probably dead.
Now, do you think he is?
I don't know. I know he was.
He was alive recently, but it's been some years.
Hold on, let's just.
Look it up. You want me to just look on my phone.
He died December fifth, twenty twenty three, so he's been dead for about a year.
That's recent, Jeffrey Or I mean, Lionel rip.
I thought I remember hearing he died recently.
That's why I wanted to.
Look that up, so to kind of sum up what I have for the Dahmer stuff real quick, just not all of the Dahmer stuff. But one of the things that caught my attention was while on a senior class trip to Washington, d C. Jeff made a call from a pay phone, and then announced to his high school classmates that he had secured them an appointment to visit the office of the Vice President of the United States.
His friend thought he was fucking around, but somehow, fucking Jeff actually did lead them on a tour of various offices in the White House. And it's never been fucking explained how the aspiring serial killer had established such impressive contacts in Washington. And it also has never been revealed who the fuck it was that Dahmer called that day to arrange the impromptu private tours. I thought that was odd. It's mentioned in documentaries, but it's almost to kind of like, oh,
Jeff was a fun guy. Jeff, fucking look what he did this one time? They want to went on a school trip and he got a fucking tour of the White House. Are we just gonna breeze by that?
Like?
Who the fuck is Jeff to get that set up?
I don't know.
It makes me think of Gasey with Evelyn. Evelyn Carter's wife, Jimmy Curters was, Oh, yeah, Rosslyn, I think it's I wanted to say he uh had a photo with her?
Yeah, Well that's who would have been in office when Dahmer was a senior in Nurist.
The fuck up.
Think about it.
He was born in nineteen sixty, right, so in nineteen seventy eight he would have been eighteen. Carter is seventy six to eighty, so it would have been the same administration that was.
So you're saying Dahmer and Gaysey knew this, bitch, I don't know he got them a tour.
I don't know who we talked to.
Oh my god.
Gaysey knew her well enough to get a photo with her. That doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean heknewer at all.
It means he could have.
But well, who the fuck do you think Jeff called that day? I don't know he took him on a tour of the fucking vice president's fucking office. Never says who we talked to, but that you're saying that would have been the first lady though.
Yeah, if if he was on a senior class trip, he was either seven teen or eighteen, right, most seniors, so that would have been seventy seven or seventy eight. I think he was a senior high school and that was. Yeah, that was the Carter administration.
The Carters Man but so there is actually a ton more jeff stuff that is just completely absurd and profound. And to continue listening to the bonus Jeffrey Dahmer material, you're gonna need to go over to the cosmic Peach Patreon. The bonus Jeffrey Dahmer blood Ties episode will be released next Saturday on Cosmic Peach Patreon, and so if you want to hear more, you can go over there and check it out. This subscription is called Room two three seven. You can find it by just going to Patreon and
looking for Cosmic Peach podcasts. But thanks to everyone who has listened to this entire series, I feel like we crash and Colby, would you do the honors of letting the listeners know where they can find you.
I have two podcasts, Conspiracy Playtime, and you can find that anywhere any of the podcast apps. And Disinfobation is a real fucked up show that I do with another fucked up guy named.
Dusty, which is also available on cosmic Peach Patreon. So if you subscribe, you'll be getting all the bonus stuff like the bonus blood Ties episode and Disinfobation.
Yeah, and that one you can find anywhere except for the people that have banned us, so good luck.
Yeah, it's vulgar.
Well, thank you for having me, Julia, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for joining me. And if you guys like this series, if you want to hear more from Colby, you can leave a comment or something like that let us know what you think of the Blood Tie series. I have a few episodes coming out for the Cult that are unrelated to any series or anything like that. They're going to be kind of random episodes for the next couple of weeks and then we'll be back at it, probably at some point in January or February with another new series.
But until then, there is one very important, vital piece of information I need you to learn, just as soon as humanly possible.
Pull a strange when you're a strange. H faces, look uglue.
When you're a lone, because I wanted to keep them with me. And as my obsession grew, I was saving body parts such as skulls and skeletons, and eventually I did turn to cannibalism. Uh No, there are times when I still do still do have the old.
Convulsions amazing all the time that I should have been caught.
I never was.
Do you think that maybe when in long.
That's what I deserve. I deserve death.
Corones. Yes, kay, thank you, hum.
Oh delivery real better not.
Professor of conspiracy count conspiracy. I put the count in conspiracy?
What what in the count?
Will you count me down?
In?
Single? CoA thrill?
Today's those a Oh no?
What are you doing, babe?
I think it was gonna be a left.
What it's funny about that? What was I even saying? Hopefully? What did I say?
Ah? Straight over?
I don't even know what. Start from the top.
Yeah, that's the way you're gonna get a good flow. I'll stop making noises, maybe like Peter Giffon and I'm just gonna see her and make bad noises.
Yeah, I was gonna say something important.
Think about it, and I want'll help you remember.
Yeah right, it does give me one last part? What sorry I forgot I put the strong written.
Beans.
So actually my question too.
You.
Got you.
That? Come discutter yourself for a second, because you're gonna just keep doing this.
You just gotta get out the giggles. Thick of minds. It's dancing on the street. Stump the redwood tree.
Stumps Okay, you look so hot in your fucking splitter profile. Pick I would eat your ass like Jeffrey Dahmer. The Milwaukee Jeffrey Dahmer Walking Tour is in Cream City. Really, there's no irony in that.
It's gruesome.
You get to walk the streets where you poach seven of It's bit victims.
You know there are Sichos that are fucking you know. I'll probably take the tour wor you got any coffee left?
He was just sick, sick. Mm hmmm.
H m hm
H