CultXCosmic: Blood Ties Pt 2

Oh, be the.

Trigger Warren.

This podcast may include explicit content that will take you out of your comfort zone and make you question reality.

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Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is Blood Ties Part two and it's Julia and Colby again and I'm so excited for this one. In the last episode we covered a lot of ground. We talked about Charles manson Zodiac. What else did we talk about?

The all scene I guiding everything together?

And so we're going to kind of pick up where we left off in the last episode and then add a few new characters to the list. I'm not going to reveal who they are yet, but I'm excited.

I'm excited too. I have no quaking idea what we're going to be talking about tonight.

You're just down for the ride, right yep? Okay, Well, I'm gonna start us off with a quote as usual, and this one is from George Esterbrooks in hip Nati, which is a really great book. Quote. We locate a number of good hypnotic subjects among the criminal class. We then isolate and train these subjects. If allowed a freehand, the authorities could proceed to plant such prepared subjects from the criminal class where it would do the most good

Well, I find it interesting that this Esterbooks fellow, who I don't know who he is, he implied that they were put in society to.

Do the most good, where it would do the most good, as in, like I take it to be like they're good, like the most useful, the most useful, like they could make the most use out of them. Kind of that's how I took it. But I mean, fuck all of them really, because there was running game on everybody, so kind of picking up where we left off in the

Just based on what we talked about in our last episode, it seems like the Santa Cruz Hills was quite the place back in this what early seventies, people are just turning up either ritualistically torn apart or never turned up at all.

Yeah, while these kids go missing from local campuses and they're never found either dead or alive, but conveniently they can't be listed as homicide victims because they never found the bodies.

And who's to say that they weren't found and it was just so gruesome and horrific they just kind of didn't publicize it, or you shoved it under and put it in Pile thirteen.

It's actually crazy you say that because I have an example of just what you're talking about. So on October twelfth, nineteen seventy four, the birthday of Alistair Crowley, student Arles Perry was brutally murdered and left on display in the Stanford Memorial Church on the campus of Stanford University, nestled in the shadows of the Santa Cruz Mountains. Now get this shit. Perry was left laying on her back with her head toward the altar and her legs spread wide open.

No?

And the symbology of it's even weirder. It's like low hanging fruit for the you know, the sensationalization that the media is so fond of when it comes to this kind of stuff. So you would thought that in nineteen seventy four, only five years after the Manson killings, you get something like this.

Well, you know, you're you're not exactly I'm a Christian, not saying I if you're not a Christian like I'm judging you or anything, But I tend to think a lot of this stuff is ritualistic and satanic in nature. And you probably disagree with that, But I mean, what do you think. Do you think that they do this just to put on a fucking show or do you think that there's something like actually ritualistic about it?

Well, yeah, regardless of what I believe, these people certainly seem to believe in something that if you want to attribute it to the Satanic elements in the Bible, that's fine. I think these people learn into a whole other thing, and trying to see it through the eyes of Christianity is one way to look at it. I don't tend to.

So what do you think, What do you think? Do you think they get something out of it? Like they do this and they have this candle shoved into her puss and they fucking have her tits hanging out and do all this like this is a ritual or they just do this to like throw people off the scent that it's something else.

Oh, I think it could be a bit of both. I mean we've talked and you have on some earlier episodes in the earlier series that the show True Detective was a really good example of like an organized thing and then a little bit of blowback when one of the people who was partaking in the initial rituals just kind of went off and started doing his own thing, and you know, they thought they had caught the killer, and then years later it starts resurfacing. Who knows, I mean,

Okay, do you think that they're getting results? Like obviously that they wouldn't keep doing it if they weren't, Like, so.

What are you asking me if like they get more power from some dark underlord when they kill in this way? Yeah, I don't know. I mean I feel like.

Like, why would they keep doing it if like they weren't getting something out.

Of it, you think, I mean, if they're not getting anything else, they could be getting clout in the club they belong to. They could be That's a good point. But yeah, do I think that the fucking sky's part and lightning bolts come down and there's a dark voice saying, oh, you're more powerful now killed for me. No, I don't think of it like that.

So it could be like a clout chasing though, well I think that, Like, look at this one I did, and I fucking had her tits hanging out and a fucking pussy.

Why not. I mean, look what I did with their jeans. I put them in this shape. If you're trying to climb like an art form to them. Yeah, if you're trying to climb the ranks you want to impress your bosses or you know, maybe it was given as an order from on high, would in whatever societies or clubs these people belong to. That, Yeah, this is an initiation. If you want to climb higher, you have to do

Well, the reason I bring that up is because with the Labyanca and like they carved this w it was with like with a fork or something, and they did all this like hoopla. I think, like with the Lobbyanca and with Tate, they did things to throw people off, and like the helter Skelter and like death to the Pigs or whatever they wrote in blood and like.

Well helter Skelter was a figment of the Buglios, you know, race worthing.

Yeah, but so they left like these elements, well, like.

The word pigs yeah and all that. Yeah.

I mean, so this could potentially be theater.

What we see, like this looks a lot like the stuff that was going on with Manson. Yeah, sure, I mean they're saying they're saying it's very.

Means and esque.

Well, the La Bianca killings. You know, I don't know. We could go back into what was said in the last episode about how these things kind of happened in tandem and then they're reproduced a few years later. Yet the people obviously are incarcerated who did the Manson killings at this point as far as everybody's concerned. But who's still giving the order or is it copycast shit?

Oh that's that could be. That could be a really good point.

I mean, it could be either I'm not willing to marry myself to either.

Well, let me let me tell you a little something about this and then we'll kind of move on. But the prime suspect actually in the still unsolved murder of Perry is a man named Bill Mintzer, who knew Charles Manson and at least one of his victims, Abigail Folger. In fact, Minzer reportedly had lunch with Folger just a few days before her death. But it doesn't stop there. He was later connected to David Son of Sam Berkowitz as well, and would later be convicted of the Cotton

In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tape, were found dead at the home of Miss Tait and her husband, screen director Roman Polanski. Miss Tait, who starred in Valley of the Dolls, was eight months pregnant and was found in a bikini type nightgown with a rope around her neck attached to the body of a man. Among the other victims were Hollywood hair stylists Jay C.

We had one body in a vehicle near the gate, a man and a woman in the main room, and a man and a woman on the lawn in front of the house, all deceased.

By what form at least stupid Here.

Heard to be knife punctures, possibly gunshot, we can't tell. We don't know for sure this time.

Was the urey in disarray or was it?

There were signs of a struggle in the main house and also in the guesthouse in the rear.

Whether a television set going or radio rowing.

Or no, there's no TV going, the radio is not going to lights were on. One suspect was arrested in the prayer house. The guesthouse looking.

Into custody by officers was the homes nineteen year old caretaker, William Garretson. He was arrested on suspicion of murder. When police arrived, they found the telephones and electricity lines cut. The bodies had been dead about twelve hours. They were discovered this morning by a maid who ran screaming to neighbors. One officer summed up the murders when he said, in all my years, I have never seen anything like this before. Josh Darsy's CBS News Los Angeles.

Yeah, and it's just interesting that this guy was eating lunch with Abigail Fullger. It's something that I think maybe it was when I was reading Chaos. It kind of just occurred to me that all of these people could have been running in the same cult, including Sharon Tate, Roman Polanski, the people that were there that night, you know,

Been it if that's what you were trying to do. It's like, oh, I got slided by this music producer and I'm gonna fu show him. Wouldn't you fucking make sure where the motherfucker lived first before you like send your family members quote unquote out to do this shit, Like you might check to make sure you got the right address.

He had and he knew that Terry wasn't there anymore.

So what was the point of it?

Then?

Well we all know.

Is what it does.

Well, if you've done enough research into Roman Polanski, you know that he was involved with some dark people and some dark shit, and it makes more sense to me that those people were the targets. It wasn't just like, oh, Terry used to live here, and Charlie Manson was just like, yeah, go to that house where the guy I'm mad at used to live and just kill whoever's in there.

Put that out.

They all partied together, Yeah, all these yeah, were on each other's peripheries. So yeah, the whole like it was just incidental. That's a narrative that they've tried to push time and time again.

Yeah, no way. And so a few years after Perry's murder, a new rash of serial killings began in nearby Sacramento, California. These were ultimately attributed to a man named Richard Chase, also known as the Vampire of Sacramento and the Draculate Killer. But what's crazy is killers like Chase, Manson, kemper Mullen, the Zodiac, Frasier, and Baker that we talked about in the last episode harolded the dawn of a new era that soon had established serial killers as an ever present

About which part like how it kind of just was spawned in that era and then just kind of grew expendable.

Well, it's skyrocketed after that, like nineteen seventy six per year, nineteen eighty nearly twenty per year, nineteen ninety three dozen serial killers a year.

Well, I saw some figure on a random Twitter post a while back, and it was claiming that there was over God, I want to say, they said there was over one hundred active serial killers right now in this country, which I don't know. I had a a young guy working for me he was like twenty two years old, and his mother had dated a serial killer that is incarcerated to this day, and he was killing when he was with her. Oh, and she said, well, she narrowly escaped.

He was murdering bitches.

He was like the I five bandit or some weird shit like that. Sounds like the Home Alone movie you're watching.

Northern crimes.

The Pacific Northwest Highways are often shrouded in fog, missed rolls in from the ocean, casting an eerie silence over these long and winding roads. And on a cold January night in nineteen eighty one, the quiet town of Kaiser, Organ was plunged into darkness by a shocking and brutal crime. Inside a dimly lit office building, two young women working the night shift as cleaners were unaware of their lives were about to change irrevocably. Little did they know a

My god. And she didn't get creep, which is why she broke up.

Yeah, I mean she was with him for like a few months, maybe up to like half a year, and then you know, kicked him to the curb. A few years later, he ends up on Channel five news.

That's fucking crazy. Yeah, in Oregon.

And I had never it was all up and down the corridor, the I five from Washington State down to California, and he had killed in like Oregon. Yeah, he'd killed all along the coast.

Okay, so let me ask you something.

And they were all women too, like, so she could have.

Been like could have been a victim for sure potentially. But so let me ask you something. You remember how I told you, Like I used to watch true crime stuff with my mom when I was a kid, and it kind of traumatized me, thinking like I could get murdered at any time, Like, and then I do series like this, and I tell everybody like serial killers are mostly CIA and it's all fucking staged and it's all like,

Know, I don't even remember how high the number was. I just remember thinking it was extremely high.

But like your friend's mom, like, they're so, could there be like a fucking like half of this shit is stage and half this shit is like actual insane motherfucker's actually murdering bitches up and down the coast.

To get back to your original question to me, they started something in the nineteen sixties, apparently sometimes intentional and very likely at other times it was just like the shit we talked about being like uncontrollable blowback from the Phoenix program and other such things. So if you started something and you start a social contagion and you start m kale through programming to the masses on other levels such as video games, I think we all know about

How sing them.

Well, You're you're abusing them from a very young age, which is what you want to do when it's an isolated event, is get a kid, traumatize it as early as in the womb or their number seems to be like as long as you can get to them by the age of three, they're in your hands. So when you're taking all these preschool aged kids who are still in that you know, mental capacity of a young toddler, then then you're sexually abusing them, and you're making them

That is a fucking really good point because it's like we watched is it called The Doors?

Yeah, the Oliverstone movie.

Okay, yeah, so you have me watch it. It's great. Fucking Val Kilmer looks just like fucking Jim Morrison and it's a great movie if no one out there has seen it yet. But I told you, if I could live in any era, I would want to go back and live live that life like in the sixties, and you said you would too. But as I was watching that movie, I was thinking, like, how many people left the Doors concert and became Zodiac victims Manson victims, like you know, the Laurel King bodygunt.

The story is that the FBI actually pulled Jim Morrison in after the Manson are killing started happening, because the fuck up. I mean, yeah, we all know that Jim Morrison was just an actor playing this guy. But the official story in numerous accounts that I've went through they say that he was at least suspected of being connected to it somehow.

Wow, and he's his dad in this fucking Tonkin and all that shit. Wouldn't surprise me that he could be a secret serial killer.

He could have been doing a number of things. I think his role was to just be the guy that went out there to spit in the face of culture, and he realized that he was just up there on stage, you know, prostolytizing to a bunch of fucking people that were just slaves, as he put it. And I do think that the actor Jim Morrison playing the role of the Lizard King really did become jaded with that role and he probably begged to get out of it.

They faked his death or yeah, no, even watching that movie, I think he's still alive or maybe he's died since. But he didn't die when they said he died. But like, would you still, knowing everything you know and like me covering this stuff and like us doing this show together, would you still choose to go back and live in the sixties?

Well, you asked me this question a while ago on a Cosmic Peach episode.

What episode was it?

I don't even hurt and Courtney. He could have been the Courtney loved one. But you asked or I think I just said. You know a lot of people say if they had their time machine, fan see where they would go back to. And you know, I said, I

Like if you could go you if let's say the time machine, you go back, you can go anywhere you want, but you have to stay there for ten years. So from nineteen sixty to nineteen seventy you have to live ten years in that decade.

I'd say sixty five to seventy five.

Sixty five to seventy five, you would still do it.

I mean, if I get a free trip.

Yeah, what if you end up a fucking TONIU fucking murder victim, Like it doesn't scare you. All the shit that they were pulling.

Well, the question is a hypothetical, like which era of history really like excites you? And makes you want to learn more. And it to me, it would be this era.

I mean me too.

I mean it's people who say they want to go back and watch the pyramids be built have a way fucking higher risk of being killed by ingefulum giants that could get squashed by goddamn nothingness, little ginger giants.

So you wouldn't be interested in like seeing the twenties or like no swing kids.

No, no, I want to say eighties. I want to see where eighties were, Like you know.

Oh wait, honey, you were alive, weren't you.

Well, I was a little kid in the eighties, but yeah, I don't remember, Duran, Duran.

I've always kind of been fascinated with the eighties just because I love eighties.

I mean, the eighties is a cool era in its own way, but it's breakfast club. It's got nothing on the sixties and no seventies.

Not really no, but no. Okay. So the years covered by the occult blood bath in Northern California nineteen sixty seven through nineteen seventy three correspond precisely to the years that the Phoenix program in Vietnam was in full operation, although similar programs under different names existed prior to nineteen sixty seven, but in September nineteen seventy three, the head of the Phoenix operation, William Colby, no relation, We're actually

Well, we just talked about that.

Yeah, But I mean I think, like.

See, that's the risk prior too, of us not knowing. I don't know what you're going to be writing about. But we talked about this extensively in the first.

But it said prior to nineteen sixty seven, when did the Manson go down? I thought it was before seventy.

Three, Yeah, but in seventy three is when Colby was named the director of the CIA. Sixty seven through seventy three.

Was the phoenis the murder years?

Yeah?

But you know, honest to god, I did not know that he became the director of this yeason. Oh yeah, yeah, So I thought he was like he was the director at Tippity topity motherfucker in Vietnam, But I didn't know he came home and became the director.

Now, if I don't ye, I don't know if this is exactly correct. I'm just going off of memory of other stuff I've looked into, But I'm pretty fucking sure that the Church committee that brought forth Operation Mockingbird, MK Ultra numerous other things that put it right in the limelight, and it was Frank Church. I think he was a fucking senator from Idaho or some shit. He was the one that was putting all these guys up on the fucking stand. And that's where William Colby ended up stepping down.

Was in the Conspiracy of Silence, wasn't he?

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think so. He interviewed him and then Colby ends up dead in a row boat in a fucking lake where his fucking dinner is still on the table. Then he left candles burning and shit.

William Colby has been missing since April twenty seventh. His canoe was found washed up on the banks of the Waikamako River April twenty eight.

My father was a soldier. He jumped out of airplanes. He lived to serve.

People who turned to me and say, you know your dad.

Was a murderer.

My immediate reaction used to be, you don't know what you're talking about. And then I'd found myself thinking was he.

Who was he? Really?

I am against assassination. I think it's counterproductive, and I have issued directives against him.

By the time I got there in nineteen sixty nine, it felt much more like an assassination from him.

Current investigations could uncover several assassinations of which the CIA was involved.

Yes, there were abuses, there was no doubt about it.

They really got out of hand at.

One person to make the determination that you do not trust four hundred and thirty five members, each of whom won an open election in ostensibly a democratic society.

I would say to you, sir, you.

Don't have the right to play god.

How many files of this character you maintain on other members of Congress?

Do you know what documents he destroyed?

Don't you think that's an exceedingly loose way to run an agency, particularly the CIA.

The CIA and its director was always caught between doing the wish of the president and the law, and when the president said do this, do that, the law got set aside.

Normally, he was really a tortured soul.

The family wasn't always let into this world of his.

He never had to really tell me anything.

My father lived in a world of secrets, always watching, listening, his eye on the door. By the time I turned thirty, I came to understand the man that nobody knew.

And I talked to this guy named Phil'szarro, who's like an encyclopedia knowledge, and he was just like, yeah, this guy was known for being meticulous and he ends up during a rainstorm just taking an impromptu rowboat trip that was so important that he just left.

Everything, left his dinner on the table.

Yeah.

And you know, you know, you never know when a guy who was involved with such things that you can just I mean, you could rattle off a million reasons why William Colby might have been a problem that needed to be dealt with, especially if he was starting to talk to like the.

Camp well he must stay got frank olsend.

Well, it was definitely a hit, but the reasons why, it's like, why DIDJFK get shot? Take your pick?

Oh yeah, it's like you don't know for sure, but you know it wasn't just him.

Well, the timing of it seemed to be like he kind of just went away and then when the Franklin cover up went underway, he either helped shift the narrative or he actually had a fucking conscience and thought, you know, I can help bring some of this ship to an end, and it brought him to an end. This is Julia's idea of comedy.

Every buddy he deserved whatever he got.

Well, I didn't say he didn't, but I also sure did. But why did he die? Did he die because he finally starts speaking out?

He died because his fucking wife kept making the same two Caza rolled over.

To He's like, you know what, fucking tunic casserole again, I'm going I'm going on a rowboat journey find myself.

So they just found his dead body in the rowboat. There was no sign of a struggle, no sign of like lethal injection, stabbing, chooting.

You know, they got fucking guns in the CIA, and just give you a heart attack. It actually held him up during the goddamn Church committee, so.

Well, shit, fucking I think he got what was coming to his ass.

Yeah, but it's oftentimes these guys don't die for the reason they should. They die because they grew a conscience like could have been what happened here, although all indicators are like, yeah, he disappeared from the limelight, and then David de Camp is that his name?

David John de Camp?

John DeCamp ended up bringing him back into the attention of the elite. I mean, who knows? These things are so layered, Like just because of the Camp and Colby, I've started to question, like what we really know about the Franklin cover up? Things have been uncovered, but maybe much darker was fucking pushed under the rug because these two were propagandists.

Yes they were. Do you think what we know, like what I covered about the Franklin like that's all pretty accurate, right, I.

Mean I think that we know the tip of the iceberg with Franklin because people like Hunter S. Thompson start coming up when you look really into the finer print and you look at a lot of Paul Bannazi's testimony, which how fucking much can we take at face value that comes from that guy.

Oh, you don't like Paul Banazi.

Well, I've heard you talk about him, and you point out certain things like he was a recruit for other victims. He was, he had a double digit number of personalities. He himself went through the most gruesome things imaginable. And then you get the other guy. I don't remember his name, but they were the ones that I.

Think his name was like Tyler.

Maybe could something like that. Yeah, But him and Alicia, the one who ended up going to prison for perjury and had to like spend an extensive amount of time in solitary confinement. You get people like that. The Nazi was relatively untoped. The one kid lost his brother, yeah, and then.

He was relatively untouched.

I mean as soon as that one kid's brother, I wish we knew his name, not Paul Benazi. The other guy in.

Conspiracy of Silence Tyler, I'm pretty sure.

But he had to see his own brother get killed. And then knew that if he recanted his testimony again that him and his mother could get killed.

Yeah, so he had a little sister too.

We can't take at face value somebody like Paul the Nazi's testimony.

In my opinion, I would like to believe some of it is true, though, Oh I'm sure a lot of it's true, just because you know well.

And you also get another spin on this, which was, oh man, what's the kid the milk carton kids? So you take Johnny Gosh and you take his mother, and you have Paul be Nazi saying he recruited him. And then you have his mother, who went fucking ape shit like anybody who lost a kid, and she's saying that Johnny Gosh came back when he was in his mid twenties and he fucking spoke to her and he said that he was hiding out.

That he had been recruited.

And I mean, I don't want to just throw out what these people are saying, because they've been traumatized like beyond no end in the Nazi's case and then with Gosh' hiss mom. But still you have to take it with the grain of salt, because if this stuff isn't meant to see the light of day.

It won't see Oswald. It is an amazing revelation in a bizarre story that all began back in nineteen eighty two. That's when twelve year old paper boy Johnny Gosh disappeared. He was on his paper route in Western Whine at the time, and now his mother, who has never given up hope, says he's alive and well and became a visitor nearly two years ago.

Chenney, it's todd Megel talked with missus Gosh today.

She told him why she waited two years to speak out about Johnny's visits.

I did see Johnny in March of nineteen ninety seven. I he can hear very late at night.

Mareen Gosh, says her missing son, Johnny, knocked on her apartment door without any warning almost two years ago. Now she's ready to tell her story.

He's angry, he's bitter. He's full grown, but still has had not the benefit of a college education, job skills, any of that to get along in life with. So it made me very sad.

But why wait two years to reveal this stunning news. Well, Gosh was in Omaha on Friday, testifying in the civil trial of a man named Paul Banasi. For years, he's told the Gosh family he knows what happened to Johnny Gosh. Now Banasi is suing an Omaha businessman who Banasi says sexually assaulted him as a child. Naren Gosh was on the stand confirming Banashi's story when the bombshell dropped.

The attorney asked me if I had had any personal contact or in fact had seen or talked to my son. And I was under oath, so I had to answer.

So, what's happened to Johnny Gosh? After all these years? His mother says, he spent about an hour in her home describing his life. He's twenty eight years old now.

He told me how he was kidnapped. At first, he was so drug that he didn't know where he was at. But he could then relate some of the names of the people that were around him that he was able to latch onto names. He told me how they traveled all over the country. They were used for pornography, prostitution, compromising businessmen and politicians sexually. These kids were used in a royal fashion like none of us would ever dream of.

So what does law enforcement think well. Pole County Attorney John Sarcone says, if Missus Dax believes the story, then he's not about to say anything different. But Westermoin Police Captain Bob Rushing tells the Associated Press that Missus Gosh has told similar stories before, only to recamp them later.

I know that there are people in this town that don't believe it. They don't want to believe it, so they say nar In Gosh is nuts.

I don't care.

I simply don't care. My first responsibility is to myself because I'm the only one he has left.

And Yeah, they had this documentary, Conspiracy of Silence that De Camp made, and all of a sudden, you're hearing there's this documentary floating around that was supposed to be on the Discovery Channel or something. They pulled it at the last minute, But then years later you can get into YouTube search. So I'm just saying, the stuff that we're allowed to focus on with the Franklin scandal is probably just so minimal compared to the stuff we'll never know.

Yeah, and I even think in the Conspiracy of Silence it kind of even downplayed the abuse that these kids were going through. It was like it almost made it look like it was it was older teenager kids or like you know what I mean.

Yeah, I put a lot of emphasis on the teen boys that had to go to the White House for this after our parties when Reagan, but.

They didn't mention like Johnny Ort Johnny Gosh. Paul Banasi said in his testimony that it was like little kids too, And it wasn't just like this teeny.

They were getting boys from Boystown, which do you have a lot of young kids who are orphaned for whatever reason end up in places like these, So yeah, it wasn't just teenage kids.

And also when Paul Banassi was talking about Bohemia Grove and Hunter S. Thompson and they were talking about that one little boy that they ran train on and then had to and then ended up killing him, and like that he said, and Johnny Gosh was little too, like this, like even when they did this stuff about Epstein, it

Anytime you asked me about the Franklin scandal and shit like that, it's going to be a tangent.

Well it's a good tangent because, as I was saying, like the way that they portray stuff isn't usually how it actually is. And with the Manson family, they did not operate as the hippie cult that they have been portrayed as being. Their base of operations was more of a pairamilitary compound than it was a commune, complete with guard shacks at lookout points, telescopes, walkie talkies, military field telephones,

Oh that was the narrative that was dying to be pushed. Like even if you watch Once upon a.

Time, I always just gonna say that, like.

They don't show all this advanced military like guard posts and stuff like that. But they had a system like a stranger arrives, go get texts, check them out.

I mean.

Ranch.

There was a city, yeah, and that's where they were. There was a few compounds that they had, but the main base of operations were led to believe was spawn ranch. And I always thought it was more militant, just in my research than what the you know, main dream spin.

On the whole thing was, yeah, because they had flowers in their hair and they had like this whole we're family. We're a family, and we all have hairy pussy's and fucking don't shave our pits and we fucking murder with each other. And we're like, that's that's how they made it look.

All this one, all this one, all one remember in them in the yeah where well, as long as we are to gather, it's that in this in the movie Once upon a Time in Hollywood, they're going dumpster diving, skipping down the street barefoot, singing that. That is literally what those women that showed up. I think it was the ones that hadn't been interested, but it could have been the ones that were standing trial. But they did that in the hallway going into the courtroom.

Charles Manson thirty six, chose a house at random, tied up the family at gunpoint, then ordered his followers to go inside and commit ritual slaughter.

They shaved their heads and ship too.

Yeah, they did a bunch of stuff, but initially they did that song that's in the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is I thought it was kind of cool that Tuarantinea incorporated that.

But he also said if you knew what he knew now, he would have wrote a different movie.

Yeah, when he was on Rogan, and Rogan was really big on Chaos at that point, even though he had the guy on and he hadn't finished his book, but uh, it was Yeah. Rogan asked him, have you read Chaos? And he said, yeah, I finished reading it after I already shot the movie. And if I had read that book, I would have made an entirely different movie.

What do you think you would have done?

I don't know if he It's just kind of like when I was watching The Doors the other night. When we were watching it, it was just I was just thinking, how cool would it be if some filmmaker actually told the real story, like a young Jim Morrison being told by his dad, You're not going to have the same life as other people. We have to, like, we have a mission.

We're doing all in his military garb.

Yeah, and then he then he like practices singing and he yea, he has a script and then they set him loose in La Rocne. That would be a good movie.

That would be a great movie.

And just like, what movie could Tarantino have made if he took Tom O'Neill's research and showed Manson being a fucking Cia asset.

We should write that movie.

I'd rather write the Doors one.

Yeah, No, that would be a better one actually, because the Manson thing is so like it's at this point, I think it's like hard to get people re excited about it because it's been talked about so much. I don't know, it's.

Well, And that's what Tom O'Neill to beat the dead horse of fucking chaos. It's it was a book that was fresh, and it kind of came out at a time when the Manson hysteria had leveled out for a few years, and it was this whole other take that a lot of people had already known about all these dots out there, but they got connected in like a twenty year period of extensive research. So anything can be

Well for sure. And actually, the next point I was going to make is, though no serial killer slash mass murderer in history has likely achieved the level of notoriety or generated the volume of media coverage that Charles Manson has, many of the most compelling facts of the Manson case remain largely unknown to the public. For a reason. Of particular significance, perhaps, are the myriad levels on which the killers and the victims were connected. One of those connections

That, about the LaVey connections. Yeah, well, I mean it's kind of well known that LaVey was an intelligence asset, and you know, I'm not doubting he was a practitioner. He wrote the Satanic Bible.

I mean, he might have been well I was gonna say, you might have been doing a little bit of it, but he must have been doing quite a bit of it, so well, I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, this was the televised version of the Church of Satan. You had people like Michael Aquino and Levey's daughter going up. I don't funk. Wasn't Mario Povich some shit? And they're like it wasn't like they were mocking them or promoting them. It was almost like they were just putting it out there and it would lead to things such as the Satanic Panic and the West Memphis three.

Well, what do you think of Kenneth Inger, Well, Kenneth Inger was balls deep.

In a lot of this stuff.

Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like, one thing that I always think of is just like the real deal. Well, think of that, and I know you know about this and a lot of listeners probably do. But it's just a weird angle on it. How the little kid of oh Man, I always forget his name. Now he had the Vito Pelkis, he had the freaks and their little kid, well god, yeah, he you know, died mysteriously somehow when they were all partying and they went out later that night and partied the

Old kid, and it was all like there was like many many stories on what happened, like nobody had the same story of what really happened to him.

Yeah, and at the time, he was being primed to be in one of Kenneth Inger's films. Yeah, and then remember which one it was Lucifer Rising person.

But then he ended up casting Bobby Boselet.

Exactly the point I was going to make. Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's fine. I was just I mean, you know exactly where this is going. And these weird connections leve Kenneth Anger.

And Manson family members.

Are they really weird connections or are they just the dots?

You know?

Because if you want to take it one step further, since we're talking about Kenneth Anger and the Manson family members like Bobby Bosley. Now we're including Anton Levey into the mix. Fucking Vito Palykus was like family members in law of the Rothschilds or something or the Rockefellers or was it the Rothchilds, the Rothchilds.

Yeah, he was cousin in law's something with was distant, but it was still close enough that it was suspect. I remember McGowan brought it up in the Laurel Canyon book.

Yeah, like in the first chapter in laws with the Rothschilds.

Yeah, because if you don't know, Vito Pelkis was the one who designed like the go Go dancer type thing. Yeah, he had You had the Birds and other such bands that were early Laurel Canyon acts that didn't know how to play their instruments, and they had the Wrecking Crew in the recording studio. But when they play live shows, no one went really to watch the music they want, and they went to watch this hippie stcene emerging with the freaks. And this was Vito Paalikus and his kids.

Yeah, that's it's a lot and actually something that I want to touch on. You inspired me in the last episode because you were talking about it, and so I dug into it a little further. But interestingly, Levey had connections to the victims as well. He had formed a close association with Roman Polanski shortly before the murders, when he served as the technical consultant for Polanski on the film Rosemary's Baby, in which he also made a cameo appearance as who else Satan?

The role of a lifetime for ol Anton.

He probably creamed his pants.

It's like, it's like what Dave Grill does now. He loves playing the devil. Any fucking chance he gets.

It does make him come every time.

Fucking Dave.

Yeah, he gets a stiff one, but so on the set of an earlier film, Tait herself had reportedly been initiated into witchcraft by Alexander Saunders, who was tight with Levey. Sammy Davis Junior, who was introduced to the Church of Satan by Manson. Victim j se Bring has said of the victims who were killed at Tate's Celio Drive residents, quote, everyone there had at one time or another been into Satanism.

Everyone there had it one time or another.

Baby, you have to say, been into Satanism.

The joke played itself out halfway through the sentence, y'all. Yeah.

Some newspaper reports at the time of the slains, denounced as sensationalism, were rife with reports that the Polanskis were Satanists who hosted drug and sex orgies.

Well, it's all verifiable. That's not sensationalization. No, I know it is, But it's just funny that like that, the whole thing was just kind of swept under the rug. He didn't need to know that this wasn't just random be scared.

They spent zero time looking into Roman Polanski.

Well they didn't. They actually did look into him, and they had confiscated we talked about in last episode some of these film reels.

Well that's kind of what I dug into trying to find stuff about, because just days before the murders, a drug dealer was reportedly filmed to be whipped at the house in an snm ritual, and various celebrities were said to have been in attendance for this, and actor Dennis Hopper spoke in interviews of sadistic movies filmed at the house that featured some of Hollywood's biggest names, And as you were saying in the last episode, they had one of a bunch of people running train on fucking Sharon.

Yeah, and only suppose they only have a few select cops saw this and they just kinda to save face for the Tate family. They didn't feel like it needed to be looked at that closely.

But if it was someone other than Roman Polanski, would it not have been looked at? It's always the husband who's to say that Roman set this shit up.

He was out of the country, so he has a solid alibi.

That's what you do when you're in.

Fucking There's very high likelihood that the ship he was into led to this whole thing.

But no, you remember, like in our Kurt and Courtney episode, like, if you're gonna hire somebody to do this, you got to get the fuck out of town when the hit goes down, And so you haven't.

He at least knew it was going to take place. Yeah, covered his own ass.

The fact that the town makes it more look like him.

Another likelihood is that he knew his life was in danger because he had done something to piss off the higher ups, and he was, you know, I'm out of town, I'm safe, maybe not knowing that they were just going to turn it on everybody at his house, including his wife and his unborn child. I'm not trying to like say that Polansky was innocent and didn't know the murders were going to happen, But it could have been the other way too.

I don't know. Usually when somebody dies, especially a pregnant woman, look at the fucking it's always a husband. What's up a ship?

That?

Just do you stay current on true crime?

Are you talking about Scott Peterson?

Scott Peterson for sure, But the guy who put his wife and his kids in the oil silo because he found out she was pregnant mos No when Mormons. His name was Chris something.

Oh damn, yeah, yeah, Chris, I know what you're talking about.

And he put his wife and his kids with the oil silo. It was something. It was something. It was on Netflix and everybody because she was found out she was pregnant and he wanted to go fuck his little secretary or whoever she was, and then he ended up.

Guy, if you want to fuck your secretary, you don't have to kill your wife first, it's not the way it has to work.

No, it's it's really not. There's so many other ways.

I'm not entirely sure. Just as a side note, that Scott Peterson's guilty. What I've seen some compelling evidence?

Can you share it with the class?

No?

Why it's not fresh on mine't mind enough? But I remember listening.

To You're crazy.

No I'm not crazy because a lot of these things when you automatically, when you're automatically just sold the narrative, especially when it's in the nice, tightly knit package of a true crime documentary, you're gonna be the narrative has already been shifted for you. Who do they say did it? I don't even remember. I'm just saying what I did, believe, just because everybody thought he was guilty.

He fucking was here.

We'll talk about this later, all right.

But sue Anyways, were Romanson killings in reality just part of what should be called the Great Acid qu of nineteen sixty nine? Were they the result of an operation aimed, at, among other things, killing off some competitors, intimidating others, and consolidating control of the hallucinogenic drug market. The possibility clearly exists, because as I always say, a lot of these murders could just be uh taken out the competition, you know,

I'm not surprised by any of it when you look at how you know, the Hollywood people are, and I know very normal people in most regards who wive swap, So the fact that this is going on, I'm not surprised by it. But some of the like nature of the films that the police were said to have confiscated from the Landscare household, I would say went beyond.

Mandingo.

Yeah, not just your all and out fun polyamory, but like some dark shit mixed with some like blackmail type shit.

Type.

Yeah.

And just like I don't know, I don't know a lot about.

Like Rosemary's Baby butt in real life time.

Well, I think that Polanski and his fascination with Rosemary's Baby and him making it into a movie didn't have a lot to do with just some like you know, this is something that people need to see in a movie. It was like his life mm hmm.

And something else that we spoke about in the previous episode that you mentioned that we talked about was like why the Labyankas when the tapes were sensationalized and so to clarify the why of it, I found some more information and there were indications of the involvement of organized crime in the killings. Leno LaBianca had known underworld connections, to whom he reportedly owed nearly two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in gambling debts at the time of the murders.

Yeah, And I do just want to back up and say, like the LaBianca murders. All the point I was making in the last episode was the reason that they're so big is because they were ultimately just lumped in with the Tate killings. So it's the Labyanca slash Tate killings. It's not the Tait for Kowski Folder killings. It's Tate at this household the Lobbyancas. And they took place very close and as far as time goes.

But they weren't like famous or anything, So it was like, why the lock.

The LaBianca shit, Like, yeah, there was a cult, rituals and symbolism apparently going on there, but these people weren't anybody.

But apparently this was one of the ones that I keep mentioning is like a hit job.

Yeah, and it looks very much like it could have been that.

They mixed this one in with the Tate one. So you don't really understand what's going on.

Yeah, so no one's at the end of the day new Sharon Tate.

Yeah, but nobody knew Leno LaBianca had two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in gambling debts owed to these underworld fucking you know what I mean. So It's like they grouped this one in with like the famous people, but really they were both kind of purposeful. Yeah. I could also add here that the fucking Lobbyonca House was once

Well, who also they had done Chinatown Roman Polanski's movie after all of this went down, and Jack Nicholson was tight with Polanski and it's his home where Polanski sexually assaulted the thirteen year old girl. And you know, people like Robert de Niro helped the legal fees with Polansky on that statutory rape charge. He ended up fleeing the country, of course, But yeah, Jack Nicholson certainly one of those guys who's at the center of a spider web.

I mean, but isn't it crazy how you can go Stanley Kubrick, Jack Nicholson, Walt Disney, the weirdos at NASA and fucking link it back to the Lobiancas and the Tate murders. Fucking Charles Manson.

Shit, man, you can link all of those guys too, not the the Tait and Glansky, but there's the Lookout Studio.

Oh fuck where Walt Disney, Stanley Kuberg. They all had a top secret clearance.

I don't know if Jack Nicholson's on that list, but.

They all had top secret clearance to look Out Mountain Laboratory.

And Julia and I just the other night watched writer Lee and Jay Weisner's new movie A Clockwork Shining, Shining, and go check that out. It's really good, really good, and it ties You know, you might not agree with every little theory in it, but he certainly didn't it tie. I agreed with a lot of it, and it ties together a lot of this stuff that Julia and I always talk about and really interesting ways.

It really actually touched on a lot of our research.

Well it's everybody's research at this point, but yeah, it's it's az.

It's what we're known for. A lot like are looking into. But I mean, like I said, there were a few things that I disagreed with, maybe Colby didn't, But I like with any documentary, you take some of the information with a grain of salt and do your own research on it, because if you're gonna sit and watch a documentary, you can't just like be nodding your head the whole time. You actually need to look into the stuff that's being presented to you.

Well, and there was also information that I hadn't heard before, same same I would say, just check it out and come to your own conclusions about it. Three time you see worth watching on Amazon Prime.

Yeah, every time you watch a documentary you need to come to your own conclusions and do your own research. But it's definitely worth watching. I enjoyed it. I've watched a lot of Jay Widener stuff though, with like the Fake moon Landing and Stanley Kubrick. The first two word just Jay Widner, I believe Yeah.

Writer teamed up with him on their last movie about JFK, and now they're doing this one.

Yeah, and it was definitely worth watching. Regardless of how you may feel about Jay Wider and the whole guy a fucking weirdness, I still think he makes a lot of good points. Do you know about that? And like David Wilcox and all that bullshit. Yeah, So kind of like we were talking about earlier, and I've kind of established by giving the why as to the labyancas. Many people have the impression that these houses were chosen at random,

Makes me think Zodiac?

It was definitely the Zodiac who killed them. Case closed, everybody solved it.

Everybody's Zodiac.

Everybody's leaving their fucking boot prints everywhere.

Well this, you know, this was also talked about extensively in Chaos, about the rearranging And yeah, it's almost like the killings happened in a fashion and then they whoever they is, went back to set it up to be found the way.

It was so babe, do you know like if they rearranged the bodies like multiple times to like get the mass fucking hysteria going of, like they had to rearrange them in the gorious possible way, or yeah, I.

Don't know about multiple times, but it seems like the killings took place as they did however that went down, and then shortly after the like the makeup crew or the set designers of this movie came in who knows to.

Like get them the most amount of like.

Well, shock and awe. If the people that did the killing were the ones who were sending the message, wouldn't they them themselves have just done it that way?

Right?

Impose them and like.

But and who's to say it wasn't like somebody unrelated to the killings. It was like we got to connect this with like this and this, and this is gonna be the thing to put the final nail in the coffin of the hippie movement.

Well, when you google the Tate crime scene, the first picture that always pops up is sharing Tate with their big pregnant belly, like all bloody and laid out on the floor with their arms up and like it's to me, it's almost to like they they arranged the bodies to make them look even more. It's just gruesome and like bloody.

And well, you know, there's accounts of the Phoenix program where murdering pregnant women and doing gruesome things was a big part of it.

And there's one close up photo of her with like a thing around her neck and like it's just I don't know, babe, Like like with a lot of these shits, it's like they redid the bodies and shit to just be more theatrical and like gruesome and gory. And they spread a couple of them out over the lawn and.

Yeah, and it could have been the killers that did it, but the word like rearranged, it puts a certain picture in your head.

And the unidentified fingerprints and stuff like who was in there besides who we know. But so Manson was ultimately arrested on charges unrelated to the murders on October twelfth, Alistair Crowley's birthday, following a raid on the family compound, and was only later charged in connection to the killings. But Charlie had previously been arrested or charged on forty or more occasions. One of those arrests in nineteen sixty seven was made by a narcotics team led by the

I mean, he's certainly a player and all of it.

Yeah, Hillside Stranglers, Charles Manson, and night Stalker. That's a pretty good resume right there.

His life would make a good movie.

But as the mid nineteen seventies rolled around, the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit came into being, the science of criminal profiling was rest upon the American people, the term serial killer entered the national lexicon, and the mass murderer suddenly became the new American anti hero. What do you think about that?

It makes me think of natural born killers me too, Like, I mean, they do the most satirical, extreme examples of it. But when Mickey and Mallory Knox in the middle of the movie get caught and it shows the hysterias surrounding them, you know, people are treating them like rock stars, and yeah, there's one kid who's like, I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with mass Mourory. That shit's fucked up. But if I was a serial killer, it'd definitely be Mickey and Mallerie.

So what about our favorite fictional serial killer of all time.

Well, yeah, I mean you could take it into present day. Dexter literally is an anti hero.

Yeah, but he still a mass murderer. Yeah, but I have such a fondness for him.

Well, it's just a really cool theory. It's it's young Ian. It's also the fucking Batman story.

And but do you think stuff like that makes people have like a fondness for serial killers in a way?

Well, and that was always like a fear when you hear like Michael C. Hall and the makers of Dexter and interviews talking about like, yeah, this is a show where we've made a vigilante serial killer and we're not trying to say that you should be doing this.

I mean I'm.

Paraphrasing, but right, yeah, as far as we can, you'd be mad at him, like he's taking up the garbage, right.

I mean, I don't think Dexter is a great example of like the actual.

Because our justice system is fucked. I mean a lot of these people do walk, especially the ones that are fucking protect did. Like a lot of these like child rapists and shit, they do get out. I would like to have an actual Dexter running our host.

I always said each corner of the country should have a dozen Dexters. Yeah, but you know that's neither here nor there.

Like maybe we that is our form of justice is fuck you. Hope Dexter doesn't get a hold of your ass.

This series is taking an interesting turn.

Wow, So I don't know, I just I'm just saying. It's not because I love Dexter, but I do think a lot of these raping, molesting, pieces of fucking garbage, dumpster shit cunt titties get fucking let back out onto the street, and there is no justice for a lot of these kids that go through this stuff. There is no justice for the dead, dismembered women and children and even you know, dudes whatever. But like, there is no

And that's the that's kind of the beauty of the Dexter story is that he is a product of a failed system. He had to watch his mom get chainsawed to death, and then he gets taken in by a jaded cop who's fed up with seeing these people walk the streets and so he turns the whole thing he's

One of them did and had a baby with him.

I mean, isn't that fuck up that Bundy could get conjugal visits? Yeah, that's the fucking seed we need sex, that's.

Yeah, uh huh.

But so.

As soon as there was a name for this new and feared breed of criminal, the country bore witness to the media, giving saturation coverage to the alleged exploits of these individuals, creating larger than life figures out of the likes of Henry Lee, Lucas david Son of Sam Berkowitz, Theodore Robert Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and the Hillside Stranglers.

Can I just say, I like how you keep to like the serial killer folklore and give Ted Bundy his true three names, because why the fuck isn't he known as Theodore Robert. Yeah, Jeffrey Dahmer doesn't have a middle name that we know.

Oh, we should google it. Where's my phone? We need to use his government name. What the fuck he can't get off with just two names?

Lionel, jeff Lionel Dalmer, Jeff Line does it ring off the tongue. I could see why they did.

Jeff Lionel Dahmer.

It's gonna be Jeffrey Lionel.

Jeff l Dahmer, Jeff Jeffriel Jeffriel Dahmer actually has better, okay, Jeffreel Dahmer. Okay.

But so.

The twelve victims attributed to the Hillside Stranglers were killed between October seventeenth, nineteen seventy seven in February seventeenth, nineteen seventy eight, closely mirroring the alleged murder spree of Herb Mullin from the last episode, whose thirteen alleged victims were killed during almost the exact same span of time just five years earlier. October thirteenth, nineteen seventy two to February thirteenth,

Yeah, And if you want to get back to the rich element of it, like what is it of the months from October to February.

That's the holiday season, that's the killing moon. Gotta be right. John Wayne Gacy's reign also ended in nineteen seventy eight, and he too had been killing for about four years longer by some accounts. There were a number of parallels between the cases of these high profile killers. Kenneth from the Hillside Stranglers, like Charles Manson, was born the son of an alcoholic teenage prostitute. His alleged partner, Angelo last name I can't pronounce, was also born the son of

Well? I heard about is in program to kill.

Right me too. I don't know how that goes, though, because I was pretty sure that like shortly after he was born he was kind of like given to the grandparents and raised to believe that his mother was his sister.

Yeah, much like Jack Nicholson.

Yeah, so don't I don't know.

Doesn't mean his mom couldn't have been fucking in front of him when he was young. Who knows.

Beyonci, Bundy, and Gacy all had intense interest in law enforcement work. Biyonkey, for example, studied police science and call went on ride alongs with the LAPD, joined the Sheriff's Reserves, and was known to carry a California Highway patrol badge and that was one of the fucks from the Hillside stranglers. Gacy was described by his wife as a police freak, a description that was applied to him by others as well.

He was friends with all the cops.

Yeah, and he would like tell people about it, like he would brag about it.

When he knew he was being tailed. He ended up like knowing the guys that were following him, and he would like wave at him and shit.

And from an early age, Ted Bundy also expressed a strong interest in pursuing a law enforcement career, and at various times worked for the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory Committee, the King County Law and Justice Planning Office, the Seattle Crime Committe, and as a self employed law enforcement consultant, billing himself as TRB Theodore Robert Bundy Associates, which is fucking hysterical to me. He had his own TRB Associates.

He's a law enforcement consultant.

And also worked with as we were kind of talking about earlier, the True Crime author and Rule. They worked out a rape crisis center.

Good place to get victims.

Like Ted Bundy worked at a rape crisis center.

That's always thought like so the irony. Maybe like a serial killer looking to get their feet wet could look at a suicie work at a suicide.

Hotline like rape Crisis.

Pretty sure that Ted Bundy did that, he.

Really Yeah, my god.

You think he just talks some people over the edge and that's how he got the taste.

Of Yeah, no kidding, well it actually because another common thread that ties the cases of these men together is that most of them had exposure to the depravities that one human can inflict upon another. Kenneth Bionki, for example, worked for a time as an EMT. So did John Wayne Gacy, who also was employed at a mortuary, which is what the intelligence community refers to as blooding. They found themselves drawn to the blood and the gore. What do you.

Think, Well, I mean, it's like an occupation of opportunity. Much how we noticed that people who had a hanker in for children would maybe work at daycarees, preschools, or churches, and so what's not to say that, Like, I'm not going to go out on a limb and suggest that these people got their taste for blood because they had these jobs. But they sought these jobs out because of their taste for blood.

But how does the CIA aspect of this come into their blooding fetish?

Like maybe they had raised red flags that drew attention to them. Is that what you mean?

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. I mean I think that you know, they have feelers out in many aspects, in many areas that we would never even think of. Like we all know they watch our Internet search history. So who's to not say, you know, I talked about this on a podcast of mine recently, where your library reading is put into a database. They did a reference to that in the movie seven. That's actually how they found out where the guy lived. Because so I don't know, if you like the sickos.

That work out of mortuary and.

Like, yeah, a lot of this stuff like EMTs, for example, that's volunteer, like you could, oh.

Like a volunteer firefighter.

Yeah, like where I grew up, you were a volunteer firefighter. But uh, that also was the case with EMTs. So I'm not saying that if you volunteer to be an EMT, you go into a database. But I'm also not saying that they don't do that.

That's a good point and actually, in a similar vein some might say the entire country is being blooded through near constant exposure to a TV and video game diet increasingly dominated by scenes of graphic violence. The effect of this is to radically de sense. It ties individuals or an entire society to appalling levels of bloodshed and carnage. But I tend to disagree a little on this, just

But we were having a broader discussion on whether or not your brain can tell the difference between violence you see on television and violence in real life, and I said, I don't think that your brain doesn't know the difference, but I do think there's a desensitizing element to it. And then we like both came up with our examples of like violent scenes and movies that like struck us to our core because of how graphic and realistic they were.

M H.

But yeah, I do agree that the dissensitive tizing element of this stuff cannot be denied. But you I personally think that you know the difference between a dead body in the street on your way to work and watching a show. But there are elements of this stuff that we know has been scientifically studying and applied, like the military's use of fucking video games. That is real.

But I mean, do you think it's it's like given people a bloodlust.

Well, something I've always said and I've heard other people say it too, is not everyone is as susceptible to the programming.

So I definitely agree with that.

Not everybody who reads Catcher and the Rise is gonna want to go assassinate somebody.

Did they mention Sir Hans Sirhan with that whose day in the documentary when they were talking about they did, they did.

Yeah, back, yeah, the clockworks shining Sir hanser and was obviously programmed. They they talked about the is it yeah but the driving point or not driving point but psychic driving where you.

Just repeat yeah, that's right, that's right.

You looked at Han's journals RFK Must Die and they were comparing it to all Work and No Play makes Jack and Dull Boy, like the psychic driving that was probably going on to you know, the Jack Nicholson character.

It is kind of like I think they use like frequencies, flashing lights, stuff like that to like put you in a trance like state when you watch certain things, and then they insert like the blood and the violence and the killing and shit. So maybe they put like subconscious programming into your head about that stuff. But like you said, I don't think everyone is as susceptible to that shit. No.

And I will tell you this. Monica Purez knew someone who had a family member in the CIA, and I also had a friend who said this very same thing. His uncle was a professional athlete and a member of the NSSA and the CIA, and what he said to him was the one thing I can tell you without telling you too much is never watch TV. And Monica Perez's family connection said the same thing, never watch TV. They have done something with it. And don't think that

Light and that I definitely agree with.

But then, yeah, violent video games, that's a whole other thing. What's the science they've put in there.

A lot of the high profile serial killers also had weird connections to political parties. I think we touched on this a little bit in the last episode.

Like with Bundy, we did.

Yeah, well, in this example, I have Gacy because despite Gacy being a fucking criminal, he had a high enough security clearance to have a face to face meeting with then first Lady Rosalind Carter, And I mean, how many people do you know, I mean, think about that he had a face to face meeting with the first Lady despite the fact that he was a fucking well.

There's the famous photo of them together.

And Ted Bundy we did talk about was connected to various Republican parties and was they always put that in the documentaries. I feel like that's kind of well known about him, that he was they actually was using him to like go spy and then come back and like tell them it was it's all convoluted mess. But anyways, Yeah.

So he would like dress up and go to the Democratics.

Yes, and then go back and like tell yeah.

It sounds like Nicky on Big Love.

Yeah it does. And kind of wrapping up here, before we take a closer look at the stories of these men, you should know that the era in which their crimes were committed was a time when reported cases of multiple personality disorder skyrocketed. Before the deck of the nineteen seventies was over twice as many cases of multiple personality disorder had been reported just in that ten year span then in the previous one hundred years, which is absolutely astounding.

Well, and much like the false memory syndrome that was kind of presented by the very people that were very much involved in the Satanic ortol abuse, there was a mass effort to even I think they were trying to say that multiple personality disorder wasn't real, that it was a condition that was faked. Yeah, uh huh. That's a great example because her doctor came out with this whole thing saying she was in love with him and she was also and that he like discredited her entire case.

We got to watch it. There are indications that all of these alleged killers suffered to varying degrees from a dissociative disorder. Bionkey was diagnosed as such by a number of therapists, though this diagnosis was disputed by others, including the CIA's own Martin Orne and Margaret Singer. Did you know that that's crazy, isn't it? They they literally diagnosed him like a million times, and then these assholes were like, Oh, no,

That's just you know, theater Ted Robert.

Actually, since you mentioned it, he was never formally diagnosed, but Ted Bundy displayed unmistakable signs of a dissociative disorder as well. Not only could Bundy's personality change at a moment's notice, but his physical appearance could as well. Bundy had a chameleon likability to alter his appearance, an ability that is clearly displayed in the numerous photos of him

I don't know. It makes me think of a lot of things, like these people being actors, these these people being possessed, really people being practiced.

Oh that's a good word to use.

Well fractured psychologically, but I mean you're talking about the Christian angle of it, and a lot of people think this is possession. But I always said that, Yeah, they were possessed. But was it safe or was it the fucking CIA or was.

It just not Satan himself? But like a demon? Well, I mean I think there's bad spirit. Yeah, do you believe in that?

I do believe in possession.

I mean I don't like not like do you believe in it like Emily Rose, like Reagan in the Exorcist style?

Or like what do I think there's something to all that you do? Okay, But a really good movie is Fallen with Denzel Washington.

Is it about split personality?

No, he's dealing with a serial killer and it's a demon that can go through people by touch.

Oh my god.

And so he thinks he has the serial killer and then that's the demon of the serial killer just finds a new host.

Oh my god? Do you think that could be what this is?

I mean I entertain all sorts of ideas.

It's not like like the person has to go to jail, but the demon just goes set a loose into the next person.

Why not, I mean the stranger things have happened.

Like they seia like open their minds up to let the demon come in.

Well, that's what I always thought, Like, why take all the time to fracture somebody if you're not trying to put something else in there?

The driver?

Yeah, yeah, you're programming whom. I mean, there's a certain aspect of that person that's still there and able to maintain the body. But I'm not willing to rule out anything as far as possession goes. But I'm also saying that it might not be that complicated that you could just program people.

Yeah.

Well.

An investigator on the Bundy case named Joe Alloy claimed that he once observed Bundy react to a particularly stressful situation by spontaneously and quite radically altering his physical appearance. Ted's body and muscular tone changed remarkably, and he suddenly became sweaty and begin admitting a noticeable odor, probably from all the dead puss coming back to haunt him.

All the victims' families could see us laughy.

Are we heartless? But how do you change your smell?

Demon?

Sticks? But that goes that that supports our demon theory.

I guess.

What do you mean.

I don't have a demon theory. You do, So I'm willing to entertain all sorts of shit.

Although John Wayne Gacy did not have the ability to alter his physical appearance, because have you seen him, he's a big, fat fuck, his personality could change in a split second. Gaysey was viewed by many as a pillar of the community, a man who was politically active and well connected, who gave his time freely to entertain children, who was a valued neighbor, who regularly hosted parties with hundreds of guests, and who was a successful businessman and

Obviously, but I mean to bring Dexter back. In the first season of Dexter, he's really driving home the point of how he has to appear in the eyes of the community. So first of all, he's entertaining children again, occupation of opportunity, but also like he was a pillar of his community.

Well, I will say watching the John Wayne Gacy tapes on Netflix, Oh.

John akay, what I tell you is what I know is fat.

I'm a power person.

I enjoy power.

So we all had to get to pull up that.

I pulled up.

Again.

Police today found six more bodies.

Under the home of suspected killer John Gaysey.

Well, you can be walking down the street and if Casey lay eyes on you know you have now become his next victim.

And too, you're kind of hunt. I'll do anything you want.

Just told Bust that's scary. Everybody from the neighborhood new Jack Gaysey that.

Was founding and appearing in it at least at a fifteen parade.

He was also a Democratic precinct captain.

He seemed very personable, very friendly, but he could turn.

On a dime. There is a right way, there's a wrong way, and there's my way. Was he insane or was he evil?

Had a young, clean cut par look to be gay.

In the nineteen seventies, so it was so much prejudice.

We find out that, yeah, there's a kid he worked from Jacy. I haven't seen him in a while.

I know this guy he worked there. He's missing too.

A lot of officers were telling parents they're runaways.

You're killing back in a day now. A lot of conversations with and with good luck with that.

I just feeling shooted again in my life with.

His sexual urges that came out as range.

I heard a clique behind me. It was a revolver and he had it pointed.

At my head.

Nobody wants to accept what the hell I say.

He was playing a he can't mouse game with the police department.

He can't let Jacy go. If he tries to leave, you got to shoot his tires out. Whatever it was there, we had to find it. I'm accused of it too much.

I guys to go out and do it.

I don't even know if I shill.

I have no remar I don't get away with anything. I don't get away with murder.

I was able to sit through the Dahmer tapes and the Bundee tapes without any problem, easy, peasy, breezy. The gay Sy tapes made me sick to my stomach. It was hard for me to sit through them. It made me nauseous. He's so fucking ugly and fat, and he looks like he stinks and he just has like the grossest fucking nasty and then like he would be like, I'm not gay, I'm bisexual. I learned that from the military or whatever he said, and then he would he would rape and murder these boys.

Well, there's a difference between being a homosexual and a child.

Killer, right, he was like, I'm not gay, I'm.

By It's kind of like Kevin Spacey's defense when he first got called out. He's like, did I fuck that fifteen year old? I have always been into both men and women.

Like, what does that have to do with anything? You're fucking murdering of raping case.

Well, I listened to this series of tapes from a guy who is talking with Gasey, and the guy Gacy just kept coming on to him and like trying to get him to come visit, and the guy just kind of played along and acted like he was, you know, not shutting him out entirely just to get him to keep talking. So Gaysey was gay, Gasey was gay, baby Gasey was bisexual. I'm not taking it from him.

He didn't murder one girl fair enough, So I mean, obviously we see where his sexual appetite was for young boys. Yeah, wasn't nothing to do with buy But so, I mean, men such as Gacy are usually said to be sociopaths. They're said to be lacking a conscience. The persona that is presented to the public is said to be nothing more than an elaborate ruse, an emotionless facade disguising the

I mean there's a lot of nuance to that, Like I think all can be true, like what you kind of just wrapped up with, But I think in some instances there are there is a level of programming where the regular driver of the body is completely tied up in the back seat and blindfolded, or maybe like with cases of gaycy, you are just a fucking monster and you understand that you've got to fool a lot of people to do what you want to do.

I think both can be true, definitely, because like Paul Banasi is not a serial killer, but he helped and like which personality was.

At well, I think he was the ban I think it was a young person doing what they needed to do to survive. In Paul Banazi's.

Case, Yeah, but was that like his his was that Paul Banasi or was that a personality that they made that would be complacent with that shit?

Well, a lot of times, if you're constantly in a situation that you don't want to face as being your reality, then yeah, you might vacate and create an altar. So maybe Paul couldn't tick that he was, you know, recruiting young boys off the street, doing this to lead them to the same fit he had already gone through. But yeah, I think there's a lot of nuance too. But I think that in some cases there is complete like shattering of your persona.

Does it not remind you of the Changeling with Angelina Julie what Paul Banazi was doing, because in that movie, there was the main boy that went and recruited all the younger boys and then they went back to like the chicken farm.

I totally forgot about that aspect of them.

Yeah, and he's the serial killer said in that movie that if you get one of the older boys to do it, the younger boys will trust him and he doesn't even have to do the work anymore.

Well, in another movie is Prisoners with Hugh Jackman and Jake Chillenhall, where Paul Daniel spoiler alert if no one's out there hasn't seen this movie, plug your ears. But the Paul Daniel character is who they think is the killer, but he's really just doing the recruiting for his grandparents.

Because if you're a high enough level of a like serial killer, you don't even have to get your victims anymore. You can just have like train one of your victims to bring you more victims.

Yeah. And is that like an excessive level of Stockholm or is it just like I said earlier, maybe a path to your own survival.

Yeah. So in the next episode, we're gonna be taking an even closer look at these serial killers and the crimes attributed to them. Is it really as we're made to believe? Kind of like what I said in the first episode with the twigs and berries with Ted Bundy. We're gonna get into something you mean, which is he couldn't have been in two places at one time, kind of like some of the ship couldn't have been him. And we're gonna get a little bit farther into that,

I am fractured?

Yeah, me too. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you learned a lot of shit. And until next time, there is one very important, vital piece of information I need you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.

People of strange.

When you're a strange, faces look ugly when you're all alone, women, single kid, when you're own. Word streets are uneven when you're down. When you're straight, faces come out of the rain when you're strange. No, when remelts were known. When you're straight, when you're strange, when stray bull straight when you're a stranger, face is not gonely when you're alone, when let's see way.

Kid, what's that a lot? What do you mean?

And of particular significance?

What did I right here?

You know?

They?

Are you able to get out deier than me? Can you get me some toilet paper. Baby, I need to blow my nose so bad. I have like a bubble in the back of my throat. HM. Fuck me. If I could just not be thick for like two weeks, that would be great. Fungus, fungus, I'm us I have a fungus? Where'd I get it? Broke your apphone words? M, I thought I misspelled word for a second. I must be filling my line.

Can you get me a tu.

Kenneth Bonacci from the Hillside Stranglers, Biyanki Byonkie? Are you sure I've always said Beyonce Binacci, Binacci Binachi? Are you positive? Okay, Bianki? Since Kenneth, why aren't you laughing at me? Just doesn't it look like Bananchi binanch Bonacci? No, I'm gonna take your word for it because I've only ever read the name. I've never heard it pronounced to what it's funny. I've never heard of pronounced babe. Can't I can't say him because you said it? Okay strong Britney?

What it was obviously a funny joke?

Strong to saying it Beyonkey? Can it beyond.

M?

Why that's funny? Babe? Why are you laughing at me.

Screen?

What I don't mean. I don't even think I typed it right through near constant exposure to TV and video game diet.

Mm hmm. I tell you out of the jokes later.

Give to me a moment.

Yeah, yes, sorry, Are you sorry?

I guess so.

We're done.

A better

Mach