A Higherside Chat (Feat. Greg Carlwood)

Baby, I'm a gamesterato.

It takes a little tangle.

You don't want to.

Mess with me.

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For the warners, this podcast is designed to take you outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality Listening discretion is a vibe.

The fellas.

This ain't my first time at the RODEOSHM.

Welcome to the Occult Rejects today. We got a packed house. We got ten of us up in here today, and we're gonna have all the rejects introduced themselves until we get to the man of the hour, the very special guests for you, Lisa, please the occult rejected bad scientists. Let everybody know what your dealer is. What's up?

Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you everybody. The only thing I have to plug is Cult Research Institute dot org, where a lot of our fellow occult researchers are contributing. So that's it for me, and I'm very excited to hear about to hear everything that Greg has.

To say today. Awesome, Yes, me too. Thank you very much for joining us, and Jin Frida the Ninja, what's going on?

Thanks you, thank you boss, not Forrider today, but and thank you to Greg Carlwood. Obviously I'm really excited and slash nervous, but so I host the show called Threshold Saints, which is serial experiments and speculative ontology. It's metamagic, metareality and metaphysics. And then I also co host a Friday night space we called Friday Night Nastic Mass called the Gray Lodge, which Nick was so great to jump on

Thank you so much as thank you, sir and JJ Vance.

What is going on, sir, Nick greeting, sir, appreciate the advice always fellow cult rejects.

Greg Carlwood, Great to meet you, sir.

JJ Vance, a host of Operations GCD and more notably not the vice president the Operation GCD. Live every Wednesday, Fridays with the Occult Rejects every Friday night and Sundays coming this week here Patreon only Sundays here at Operation GCD eight pm, looking forward. The conversation always great to you know, meet all the Occult Rejects.

This is the big, big team we got here today.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, Thank you very much. And Ethan Indigo, Sir, what is going on?

Peace? Salute to everybody. Glad to be here. I'm a writer on the esoteric and the exoteric and can be found really easily and check out Occult Research Institute.

Glad to be here with everyone.

Thank you. And another special guest we got with us today. This man has been along the journey really with the Occult Rejects, and I think some of the best work that has been done on this show has been done with him, so I wanted to get him involved. We got Mario from Symbolic Studies to Tarot Man himself. Please let everybody know what is up.

Yeah for sure, Thanks for the invite, dude. My project is called Symbolic Studies. You can find all my stuff at symbolicstudies dot com. I do short form videos available for terror readings, I've got presentations on my YouTube all that kind of stuff. Stock to talk to Greg and everyone else. So yeah, thanks again of course, of course, and we got Ricardo.

Please, sir, let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find all your amazing research.

Thank you, Nick, Thank you for the invite. Good hearing to everyone. I'm very excited to listen from Greg today and see what it has to say. And as for me, I'm a multi Sumari researcher and you can find all about me and my ex account as it is in the screen at t dot calvery one at x do. Check out our magazine pharohs. You can find it at the Institute for Natural Philosophy dot org.

Thank you, Nick, of course, thank you, And we got the Cosmic Peach yourself, Julia, what is going on?

What's up?

Nick? I'm so excited for this one. I've been looking forward to it. Have Cosmic Peach podcast wherever you listen or find your podcast. If you haven't found me yet, yeah, never will, but I'm excited to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Of course, of course. And last but not least, the moment Slayer herself heighty love.

Hello, everybody. I'm Heidi Love of the Unfiltered Rise. I'm everwhere podcasts are served. I do have my own website, Unfiltered rizpodcast dot com, and I'm better known as the ex Mormon girl.

Hell Yah, nice to meet you, Greg, Thank you, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And finally, last but not least, the man of the hour. I'm sure everybody knows who he is. He's a the OG four twenty friendly conspiracy theorist. We're on the streets. He smoked the blunts with Bigfoot, and he's ripped bong hits a Bohemia grove. We got Greg Callwood from the Higher Side Chats up in here today. Greg, please let everybody know what the hell is up and what's going on.

Hey, thank you for having me. No pressure, right, I mean, I really am just a regular guy and have a regular guy's level of knowledge. You guys all probably know a lot more about the occult than me, but people know me because I got in there first. I've been doing the podcast for fifteen years. The Higher Side Chats dot Com is the place to go, and it really is all the great guests I've had over the years

Yeah, no, thank you very much. I totally understand what you're saying about forgetting stuff, because like between everybody I work with, it'll be like, don't you remember when we talked about so and so on, And I'm like, no, sorry, I don't. That was three weeks ago. I don't remember. There's so many there was ten other shows in there that I remember, you know, partial stuff I just forgot. But as it all does lead together, Yeah, I'm glad

Well, I was always kind of anti authoritarian and into conspiracies and even things like the Locknus Monster and Bigfoot and UFOs that gets you.

Going when you're young. I like punk music.

So I also kind of grew up in a repressive Catholic school environment in the Midwest, so religiosity was definitely there. Obviously it's an anti occult environment, but it's still in the mix. And I tried on atheism for a long time, and it was just like, you know, what if I think this is bullshit, if I think that it's wrapped up in a lot of nasty stuff with the Vatican and all this, well, you know, if I don't trust these people, maybe the whole thing is bullshit. And I

But regardless, I was on my way to something with my mom and I.

Had this inner voice say put your seat belt on, and it was incredibly aggressive, and for some reason I listened, and we were in a car accident. My mom got tea boned like five minutes later, and I would never forget that that was the reason why I didn't find it and why I wasn't even being asked to do it. And I think my parents just got sick of how stubborn. I was, and in this particular instance, this inner voice was so loud. I was like, that was definitely intuition,

Yeah, it's often in those early.

Years, and then we might put it away and be like, well, I'm not going to hinge my entire worldview on the five seconds which I saw something that defied reality.

Maybe I was mistaken back then, but I swung back.

Obviously. I was into conspiracy and it's very adjacent. I always liked the David Ike flavor of conspiracy more than the Alex Jones angry patriot Texas thing. That didn't really resonate with me, maybe because it was too close to home the way I grew up, and I mean, my parents were very normal, which allowed me to be normal too.

So, you know whatever.

But I think if you go into conspiracy long enough, it definitely crosses over into occult area as you start looking at symbolism. I saw an early documentary on marketing and just subliminal messages in marketing, and then that gets adjacent to magic. And it was guests like Gordon White who kind of recontextualized the sie effects and the telephone telepathy type of thing and said, no, that is magic.

It's interesting, kind of I guess we shed a little bit of the same situation where it went from you know, kind of Catholicism Catholic into thinking there's something wrong with the church because of the conspirac season. Then I become an atheist, and then about five years later, I found myself in the Oto.

I did not go that, Oh you no, I did, but his next magic really the big secret at the end of.

That for me, my magical experience. Yeah, I think I was given some secrets, yes so, but not at the Oto. It was not wait oh sorry, did you sway? Stay? What did you say?

Oh?

No, you know that's the whole thing and the experiences that I had. There was no ritual done, no sex, and all I did was meditate. Did you see the Gnostic Mass? Oh, I've been in the Gnostic Mass plenty of times.

Did you see the full apparently the real Gnostic Mass. They're banging.

I've never seen anything else besides breasts. Oh yeah, grateful that, I.

Thought, you said, Nick, You saw they always picked the big fat chicks to get up there and take their tops off, didn't they.

Well, just from my experience, I mean, listen, I'm not breaking saying I'm God's gift to women, but I did not want to see any of those women naked anyways, keeping it real, don't get naked either, No naked. I figure out I was going somewhere with this I forgot. But oh yeah, yeah, there was there was no sex man. I I again, I mean I was only there for five to six years, only went up a few degrees. You have to go past the fourth, Like if the

Also, astrology is one of those early things that I just couldn't really dismiss the results of and the typical excuse that everything's just so broad and vague that you can apply it to yourself that didn't really resonate, And so that was just an other thing that's like, well, if this is true, then I have to change my

How it works in a material universe. I agree with uh, do anybody want to ask you any questions?

I do.

I don't want to hog at Greg's time or anything.

But because you mentioned David Ike, you know, he's been scrutinized to like the max would you are you like a lizard people's person or are you like where where do you fall in the lizard spectrum?

Well, I think this is David Ike. He He's even clarified a lot of those comments. So it's hard to separate, especially in a pre Internet world. When I was getting into David Ike, you have the actual person, their actual material, and then the cariature that society reduces it down to. And obviously with David Ike, he was reduced down to the lizard guy. All these elite are literal lizard people

Or like some kind of bloodline thing almost yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I'm wondering that's a literalization too. But they definitely care about bloodlines. The leader obsessed with that, so you have to reverse engineer. If they care, then it's something important.

And what is it.

Well, there's this, there's all the Steiner stuff. When Steiner talks about blood, I'm like, that is your spiritual essence. So maybe it's splitting hairs talking about a reptilian blood line and a reptilian spiritual energy attachment.

It's probably maybe.

That's how it's connected in through the blood and the nakash.

I think it's connected back to the garden, like you know, there.

You go, Like I say, you guys know more than I do about a lot of this stuff. But these are the conclusions when I've you know, after fifteen years of asking guests, some things resonate and some don't. Some things you hear more often than others. And that's basically my broad viewpoint on how reptilians can exist and probably do.

You, if I may, Greg, So you've said many times of what you heard from people. My question is directly to you and not to those people, to your personal experience. So, after all you've learned of the experience you accumulated, transforming that knowledge into some form of wisdom, how do you see reality, how do you conceive it to be today, and how it relates to consciousness and existence in itself.

Well, I think I settle on the Soul school hypothesis that we come here to have physical experiences where fractals of the Godhead. We take thatperience back to the central supreme consciousness and fold it in.

And I don't know why.

There's a lot of explanations, like the basic one is that consciousness existed made a physical container for itself and that is only enjoyable to play through if you come in with no memory that you're God.

And I think that checks out. That kind of makes sense.

And if you push on the reality we have, then you can quickly find out it goes deeper, but you can go your whole life without pushing on it at all and just live a straight experience, you know, a straightforward physical reality experience, which is probably what it was somewhat designed to do. But I think it's, yeah, a realm of experience, which is what I think is really sad when so many other people I know don't fully

Like just jobs.

Obviously number one thing to say that eight hours a day, you're going to sleep. Eight hours a day are gonna work for us, and then you get the other eight hours, but some of it's traffic. Then you're gonna have to eat, you're gonna have to get ready for work and shower and all this stuff. It really starts to get whittled away to Okay, I guess I have two hours in the evening to watch a fucking Netflix show and that's it.

And they do a pretty damn good.

Job of that.

I think we all know people who barely ever get off the couch outside of going to work and coming home in the evening. So I like the Sole school idea that it is a realm of experience and hopefully learning and hopefully progress. I don't necessarily have evidence of that part, but it just seems like why do it otherwise?

That is so true, That is literally so true.

I almost feel like before I started podcasting full time that I was like clinically depressed. I was working like twelve hour shifts at a hospital and I would come home and just like zone out almost, And it's the system is like set up to where you're just a cog and a machine and that's how you feel.

Literally.

I mean that's so true, especially the medical system, the way that they have people working those shifts.

That's not necessary. There's definitely got to be a better way.

But it is more closely to how you would structure psychological torture. So I think that the conspiracy comes in with the medical stuff, where they don't want anybody to wake up. They don't want the people working in the trenches to even have time to think about what they're doing. Just go, go, go, here's the book. This is what we do in this instance, and don't think about it. There is no variance. Take your orders from on high. We saw what that did a couple of years ago.

They make us do twelve to thirteen hours, and then they turn around and tell us don't have any personal connection with anyone, don't don't try and relate to these people that are here for drugging alcohol abuse, and don't try and help them or hug them or touch them or do any of the things that might actually help them, because.

Like, don't be their friend.

God forbid, you'd be a nice sweet person to someone who's mentally fucked. Like come on, and you know, Heidi this with you working there too, I feel like you can agree with this because I, like you said, I worked like twelve hour shows too. You don't really get Sunday off either, because all day Saturday you're doing whatever. All day Sunday you're just dreading going back on Monday. So it's like literally a never ending loop of just like why the fuck am I doing this? Why the

I mean it sucks something.

Yeah, Oh sorry, go ahead, all right.

I was just gonna say, Julia mentioned depression, and I definitely think depression is a natural reaction to something that you're not doing in accordance.

With your true will. Yes, I totally agree.

Me and my wife had a real tough my now wife. You know, then it was early. She could have got out, but in the beginning she was like, you know, I have real concerns if we're gonna get raw, and honest, I have real concerns that you're never going to be happy unless this big hail Mary thing you threw, unless

Hours a week and you're still eating taco bell and wondering how the fuck you're gonna make it to the next paycheck. Like, think about that, it's such a slave system for real. You have time to shit in shower and go right the fuck back the next day, and like, its just I don't know, it's horrid.

But then I also think about, like if it is a soul school, if reality is set up this way, like we really just in that dark city sense, we don't truly have a concept of anything that came before us or anything after. We're kind of the center of our experience. There's a story out there of what might have occurred before and all this, but you're really kind of just in the experience. And if that's true, maybe

I remember that, Oh my god, God, any.

Questions you want and I'll tell you.

And they, basically as pypologists for the elite, were like, these people actually made a sacrifice to play the role of the bad guy in this system, because to have a good story there must be a villain. And part of that is you need to push through the difficulty and push through the depression and rise above it and change the circumstance. That is the nagging thing, you know, the stick in the ribcaid. It's like, hey, come on,

Of it, it doesn't affect me anymore.

I've learned to appreciate that stage of life and going through that, because otherwise I would not have been motivated enough to do what I do now. And maybe this is my true will to just at least create a stage for important voices and then put them up for the people, and I don't have to do much more than that then raise the curtain and turn the lights on.

Maybe that is my role.

I'm comfortable with it compared to other possible roles. But maybe I just don't hate it as much as I used to when I was stuck in it. I now appreciate the process of taking a person up to a higher level experience. So if you're in your twenties and you're kind of miserable, I think that's what the twenties are for, is letting that feeling fuel something better into your thirties.

I know with mine, I choose to be where I am, and it's all about trying to focus on the people there to try and actually help them because my brother did pass of a drug overdose, and so that's why I chose to work there, because I thought, well, if I can give something back to these people, and I am constantly breaking the rules, so it doesn't matter anyway. Like you said, you can change your you can change your way about it, you know, be human, like give them humanity.

Heck yeah, real quick, There's a few things I wanted to say, and then I did want to toggle in Robbie Marx because we can't have more than ten people, and we do have another cult reject here. We just couldn't fit them in. There was a couple of things I wanted to say. Those stuff that you said. One, doing your will, I totally agree with that. I honestly think if it may be hard at times what you're doing, but if you love what you're doing, I think you're

Think there's a big difference between how he started doing it and how he does it today. I mean, he wrote a book called The Trap recently, which I think it's like six hundred pages. Basically everything I said would be contained within that same framework, So I think I think his opinion and position has evolved as well.

All right, Robbie Marks, we got you in so sorry about that, sir.

No no worries at all. Yeah, Hey, Greg Carwood, how you doing. As I'm an artist, I do art illustrations. I do a lot of festival band type merch stuff like that. I've been an independent artist for going on thirty five years. And you know, when when we talk about this system of people just you know, as cogs in the machine, and they come home and they you know, they don't have any time for anything else, especially any

And there's good years and.

There's bad years, and you kind of sail through this sea over all this time. Do you find yourself constantly trying to reinvent yourself or are you happy with a general production level where you're at now? You know, I mean there's this constant struggle with you know, it's like sometimes, you know, after thirty five years of this, I say, you know, I want to run away and join the office because I worked twenty four hours a day, seven

Basically. Yeah, brass is always greener, as they say, but as they say, yeah, I kind of agree with that.

When I was in Armenia with Graham Hancock on this research tour, my website went down and I was in Armenia with no signal and people are like, your website's just completely not there. And I didn't have people at that time to help, so I'm like, Okay, my flight's in six days. I guess I'll just hate the rest of this trip until I can get back home. And you know that stuff happens. Your website is your store and you're the manager, and you got to make sure it's always open.

Ye.

But yeah, in terms of evolution, it's funny because I am of two minds. Like I've said, it's a refinement process. Yes, I think I got better over time by learning on the air in real time as I had to go. It started as a comedy podcast where I wanted to talk to a group of comedians about conspiratorial topics.

I quickly learned some of them.

Are just here to get airtime and they don't care about these subjects at all, and the other ones are more focused on making jokes. This isn't exactly what I wanted. It's not getting deep in any kind of regard. But I was going through like Ari Shaffer, Joey Diaz for people who listen to comedy podcasts like That's who my early interviews were. And then I did Marko Tasari on I was like, Okay, this is way closer to what I would want to listen to.

So it is a refinement process.

Some people would close down shop and open up under a new brand and all this kind of stuff that's what people do today because they know a lucrative podcast is.

And how it's all got to be like polished and tight.

But I really wasn't like that at the time, And then I had people send me stuff where a couple other shows were like, hey, this, since mimicking your cadence and the way you do intro. So then I actually honed down into an exact process so that that kind of mimicry would be more recognizable, because now here's an actual formula that I use and I'm comfortable using it, and you know, I just there's so much vagaries around,

Sure anyone can do that.

People have been talking to microphones a long time. No one has a true monopoly on that. But you don't like to see yourself copied or whatever. So I guess I basically to answer the question, yeah, it's been a prod a process of refinement, but also I tried to standardize what you expect from my show like, here's a polished intro that gets us in within two minutes.

There are no ads or no sponsors. We're going right to the meet.

I try to use the intro to get further downfield than just saying, so, tell me your thoughts on UFOs. It's like, no, that was in the intro. Now I want to know your thoughts. You know your level eleven thoughts on UFOs? You know what about these things that? So I try to use the intro to really, with a show that's broad, you kind of have to prep people, prime them for this topic this time because it does shift. But you caught me right on the cusp of moving

And that is largely due to the market.

Like I see all these shows that have existed for half the time where posts don't even read the work of the guests like I do, and then they're rocketing past me. And it's because things evolve and things change, and I'm being dragged, kicking and screaming into video. I will get better at it as I go, and if I'm kind of starting over, But it's partly what I want, partly what seems to work. So I know growing up

I think that that when you look at the whole process as far as you know, you've been doing this fifteen years now, and just the whole problem. I mean, it's an expansive process. There's gonna be times of dormancy and times of growth, and it's a developmental process, like

I agree, and AI is a little bit of a part of that. What I don't like is people using AI editing because it's just off putting to me. And this whole idea of, oh, just turn the person into an animated baby or an animated be a reptilian for this episode, and they can match and sync the lips up perfectly. But like, we don't need to do that, Like people are people, and it's okay to just look at the person speaking.

But yeah, AI tools helped polish it.

It's a little bittersweet because when I started, there were very few tools, so I was willing to learn the available tools and build things into my website, Like I built Patreon before Patreon existed, and it's in my website for just me, and then it came out for everybody and now everybody has it. So it's nice because I have Patreon too and some tools I do use, but not having those tools is what separated the people who are really going to go the extra mile from those

AI.

I'm not at the point and probably won't get to the point, like I'm always going to read the book.

It's part of my process. It must happen.

But now people who don't want to read the book can do an AI summary and act like they know a little bit more and invests just a third of the time. So that's frustrating for a person who's actually reading the book. But I don't trust AI to pull out that one line on page eighty nine that I want to ask about, because you know, you can't trust

And we have now got tools where we can.

Resurrect old rituals or old occult understandings that.

Weren't meant for anybody else. Yes, yeah, you can do it instantly.

I've thought about that because I've gone down to the bin Key Library that was in Yale, that's over in Yale, and like I've actually like touched like certain like Heimrikouonroth books and you know, like and taken pictures and videos of these things. I'm like, yo, if I could probably get somehow aid to like maybe like trying to trensk right that. Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

Now.

I did see that they had an AI that was specifically working on the uh, the Sumerian clay tablets to translate, because there's hundreds of thousands of those, so you're just skiining them in and they have an AI that to actively translate. So we're gonna have some more you know, epic of Gilgamesh and kind of this library of Ashabonopaul that's gonna proceed to come forth that they didn't even know about in the late eighteen hundreds. As far as Yes America, you know.

I would be a little careful with that stuff because you still have an interpretation from academia presenting something on Discovery Channel. This is the new understanding. It's barely different than the old understanding. But now we have it confirmed because AI now that's gonna be happening. But you can do it yourself. That's what I think is so great. And then you know, you could read between the lines, because I do think some of these programs have a

Real quick, real quick. If you don't just getting real quick, I'm just going to remove Robbie, bring Julia back, and I think at LIASA did happen at Lisa did have a question real quick too, and then we'll get to somebody else.

Yes, I wanted to build upon what everybody has been saying lately, and then what you had said right now, Greg. And then so over the years you have interviewed like an enormous amount of alternative researchers, do you notice any like metapatterns, synchronicities, something that points to a deeper structure within this conspiracy ecosystem.

To use that word that you use itself.

And then the second parts of the question is with all the fringe thinkers that you have interviewed and in this age of conspiratuality and to distill down even further these algorithm driven bubbles, do you see like a deliberate hypernormalization or is it all just like ontological paralysis rather than just plainal censorship.

Oh man, well, some of that speaks to like I just did a live event with Gordon White, and the whole subject was the conspiracy canon. It was his idea. But how has the canon changed over time, like you know, like a film canon or whatever. And it makes you think a lot of it is just the impact of algorithms and the Internet, like you have to have the most explosive thing, not the truest thing, and you know, just to take it from the top.

Back in the day there was JFK.

You can bring it up to nine to eleven, but a lot of it's the CIA and the economic hitman type of stuff. Maybe a little eufology peppered in there, but there's a canon of a dozen or so events and subjects that people are looking at under the microscope, and that's it. You go to conspiracy Con in nineteen ninety five, that's who you're talking to, you know, minus the nine to eleven thing. Moon landing, yeah, might be included, But now it is all about the iceberg and like

Is the past even real at all?

Like?

Was there an extra thousand years inserted into the system? Was there a lost society of amazing architects who knew about the ether that have been wiped out of the history books And a lot of that can't exist because the system has been so highly controlled, And the further you go back, the more control. A lot of our history comes from, like three guys Scallenger and a couple of other monks in the Vatican basement, Like not exactly truthful sources. What do I know about Herodonis as a person?

May I ask as a follow up to that, there seems to be like a long time conspiracy theory theory if you will to where if you mention anything related to something conspiratorial that someone isn't familiar with, let alone use that phrase, they try to put you into a box.

Well on the second point, the trigger, yeah, I definitely think so part of that is like the ignorance is bliss thing. A lot of people don't want to be confronted with the fact that they might not be happy living the life they're living, and so you see someone like I have friends like this at the time, they were working store manager jobs and they are happy or they seem happy, and I'm the one who's not.

You don't always want to be around that.

You don't want to be reminded that we're all getting to be thirty years old and we all run million dollar stores.

And none of us can own a home.

Guys.

You know, that's the kind of.

Stuff I would say at these regional meetings with other managers, and like, stop drinking the kool aid so much. If we're here next year, we all fucked up, guys, this is the year to get out of this. That's the kind of shit I would say. And some people were like, I like this guy, and other people really didn't want to be reminded that they shouldn't be happy in the situation they are because changing it is so hard.

That's why.

It's because you have a five percent chance of probably making it and getting out because the system is crafted that way. So yeah, people don't like that. But also the triggering kind of conspiracy thing makes me think of the archetype they would present to us in movies and TV, where it's like you're a paranoid, schizophrenic, crazy person, and that kind of enforces the idea, don't look at this stuff, just leave it alone, live your nice, comfortable, regular life

In some way.

I'm not saying we're going to change the system since has been going a long time. Empire is going to do what empire does. But how can you reorient yourself? How can you let it not affect you as much? Maybe you can dodge this bullet, but you get hit by these two. There's so many things going on, Like if you can just dodge some of the big stuff or know what you want, then you can start to get there. Know that you don't want to waste the time on the couch at night. It's not fulfilling to you.

So, but it's scary.

It's just scary to even confront that possibility that you have to take your life in your own hands, because you just what if it doesn't work out? You know, I'd rather be at least safe here at home and unhappy than homeless or something like that, because you just you imagine yourself being just as unhappy but with less

Of the Earth.

It's like, what is going on there?

You know, just because you have some questions about how things are presented doesn't mean you're a flat earther. But yeah, this is the tendency. That's the way the mainstream marginalizes everyone. It used to be just the term conspiracy theorist in general, it is a CIA created term to be like, oh, that person doesn't go for the facts. They're a conspiracy theorist,

It's just it's all straw men.

You know.

That's kind of classic dismissal if you don't want to confront something. But yeah, it's also nice to try to avoid making it easier for them to put you in those boxes, because the answer is to try to get to the nuance of certain points and then get people to think outside of their pre program box.

They're the ones in the box, not us. Well said, did anybody else have any questions?

Oh?

Yeah, sure, appreciate Greg carl Well again, JJ Vance not.

The vice president. Great to meet you, sir. I enjoyed hearing about your your journey there. I I would like to hear some of your thoughts maybe on some of the how your thoughts have evolved on some of these subjects you've covered, and notably in particular, loader a topic that I discovered from your show years ago on the work of Adam go rightly in your in your interviews and collaborations with him. The topic was Tuesday. Well and Julia, Julie and I recently uh got subjects.

Wow, wow you really are going back probably deep cut?

Yeah, deep cut.

Well, let's just say about Adam go Rightly. I like and appreciate Adam go Rightly. He at a time when I I never really wanted to do the show myself, but I have. I had a couple of buddies that were gonna do it with me, and they just weren't as dedicated. So I was like, well, I guess I will do it myself. But then I started to have cycling co hosts. So I do a show every say Saturday, and the first Saturday would be me alone, second Saturday, this other guy, third Saturday, this other guy. One of

The liberal kool aid.

And he went on a big liberal rant to me about like, oh, it's the right wing that's bad and blah blah blah, and like they're all politicians. Man, the pendulum swings both ways. You don't have to do this just because we're talking about an issue with corruption on the left. You don't have to say, well, what about the right. It's like, we're not talking about that right now, that's tomorrow subject. Today, we're talking about this side, okay.

Dude?

Honestly, like, what are we doing here? You don't thought it was provocative? That's what you did.

I thought you got very polarizing. Yeah, years ago. I didn't mean to.

It was a deeper cut than I thought there, Greg, I apologized for bringing that up there, and we you know, I have a similar take on Discordianism and his writings. I like to I don't like to throw the baby out with the bathtub, and you know, regarding Discordionism, what I find interesting and something Heidi and I have been working on is this looking at some of the genealogy.

Yeah, I just I definitely tried that stuff out because of Adam and our friendship and if he is interested, I became interest. And then after a while I was like, I feel like I'm just wasting time here because I just don't know if anyone's genuine. I just had to put it down, shut down to figure it out. But it's kind of like a lot of the sixties stuff too. I just like, I don't I just don't know. Especially

That's my favorite wheelhouse, Laurel Canyon.

And that same pattern applies to Seattle grunch scene as well. So I mean it's it seems to be a circumstance. These these same patterns from the McGowan identified and Laurel Canyon seemed topplay elsewhere in music scenes.

Yeah, and I wonder, like, what's up with the grunge thing. I guess the whole point was it grunges hippie adjacent. It's just like, you know, do heroin and be a slob and just don't care for me.

Love Courtney Love. She's cias a motherfucker.

Oh the whole movie CIA for sure, Absolutely.

Yeah, Courtney Love. John Pittash does some great work on Courtney Love. And she was over in the UK selling drugs at festivals. Basically that's what a lot of these CIA plants in the music scene would do, is sell drugs in the festival scene and wouldn't get caught because they're connected. But apparently she went from that to being a groupie to being married to Kurt Cobain, So it

But now you got like.

Little Zan, Little Zan now yeah, corporate drugs being branded as the party drugs, Like, can't we at least stick to things that grow in the earth, like we're promoting

Now.

But I want to look like Posts Malone.

Exactly exactly Pete Davidson. You know all the girls love Pete Davidson. He's covered head to toe in tattoos and looks like a dupis. I should act like that and do what he does.

I actually have a question for you that goes kind of along the Laurel Canyon thing. If nobody else has a question, I don't want to skip anybody's turn. Do you feel like the podcasting world right now is Laurel Canyon esque?

Because I do. I feel like there's gatekeeping.

I feel like only certain people can get to the to only certain topics can get there.

You have to fit a certain mold.

Now, it's like be a Christian conspiracy podcaster, do this, do that? Russell Brand, Joe Rogan hate to say it tinfoil hat. I mean, I'm just saying I feel like there's a moral Canyon esque behavior going on, and I wonder what your opinion of that is.

Well, yeah, I mean, you're gonna get me in trouble. But I do think that that's happening, so agreed. The thing is that some people think it's sour grapes, like well, why am I not at the top of the charts and this and that, I'm no where I am in the charts. I'd never thought i'd be on any charts. And I make a really good living and I don't ever take AD money. I mean that there's no one.

So I'm pretty coming.

I think that's admirable.

But I do think there's a lot of like I don't know suspect to say the least with like what topics get big and like, yeah.

Well that's driven that's driven by somewhat the AD revenue. And I'm actually talking to a guy tomorrow seven C's. He does these big webs of connections that shows Here are the major companies that advertise on podcasts. Here are the people who own these companies. Some of them are like Peter Thiel and Peter Too Technocracy and stuff. So you have these very people funding the brands that seem innoculous and innocent enough that are fueling podcasters to six

But Candice Owens gits me every time because I feel like she she like switched up, like halfway through her she was all trumping and now she's talking to like XCIA, and like she has some good episodes, and I like some of her research. Don't get me wrong. I'll listen to an episode or two. But I just think that, yeah, I mean, it just seems like Russell Brand is like that everybody's coming out as a Christian or everybody's coming out.

You know what I'm say right, everybody, everybody knows this is my big like whistle to blow within the podcast community, I think, and I get some fair backlash for it, But if you want to know the fruits of people's labors, why don't you watch?

And then on top of it, if you aren't bought in, like what Greg's saying there about like who finances who?

I always look at stockholdings.

I always look at all this stuff for these big corporations, like who's playing in Who's field?

Right?

And then genealogy, As JJ said, you either butt your way in or your blood your way in.

And that's the only two ways there is, especially.

In conspiracy pot or I'm sorry. In comedy podcasting in particular, it's hard to find a comedian podcaster in the top ten that doesn't have something going on.

Usually just really rich connected.

Parents, you know, isn't that crazy?

Brian Callen gets it all the time because Brian Callen dad is a CFR think tank banker guy. But it doesn't just stop there. I mean there's other ones that have hedge fund manager fathers. And Theovon's dad was some Polish aristocrat. It's like theovonn you know, you can't that's the other thing. You can't control what your parents did.

Great.

But then the thing is is like Theovon's got this dad right, who is a Polish aristocrat, and you can say, well, his dad was like something crazy like seventy when THEO was born or something really crazy like that, and so he didn't really even know his dad very well. But there might have been some benefits and some effects, but he probably just wanted to grow up with a dad. And now the internet's raking him over the coals for this. But on the other hand, he is interviewing Trump. He's

Comedy store.

There you go, JJ, I want to like these people, but there's just too much.

I don't know if I would lump Sam Tripoli in there, though. I mean, I know you, I heard you mentioned him. I was a little nervous.

I was like, is this a gootcha?

Because I think that the occult rejects and and and Sam had a dust up.

I don't know what it was about. I just know he's been nice to me.

He let me live out some fantasies of performing at the comedy store that I had no business doing.

But now I can at least write it off like I did do that.

Yeah, I've met him a couple of I mean, I don't have anything against him or anything like that. I just as a conspiracy theorist in this realm, you have to question everyone, like even any of us, you know.

But if we're talking about like who has had an advantage by being connected through the system, I don't know if Sam conforms to that model. I don't know his parents or anything, but he strikes me as someone who has just been putting in the sweat equity at the comedy store for years and years, and then podcasting happened and he transitioned, and yeah, he does a bunch of ads, he sells memberships, he does everything he can do to make it a career. He's also dealing with the LA

I have a problem with being two nice nice.

So sometimes people will come to me with a pitch and I just don't want to say no, and I'm like, yeah, we can do it.

Now, a show like Sam or a show.

Like a lot of other ones that are AD supported, you just say yeah, let's do it, because you can always do another one. I'm in the business of selling five good interviews a month, so if I give three of those slots to people who pitched me, and then I'm like, an, this is kind of milk toast, I still got to do it, And that's in my thing.

I didn't make it.

I mean, I can't say I didn't make any money from that show, but it's it's the same as just another SATVA AD supported show.

Another better help support your ad.

Yeah, sure to build a punk if I might had a caveat on the weird scenes inside of the Comedy Store and in the dust up you previously mentioned there, Greg, Yeah, I wasn't trying to redust up anything. There's a good analysis. They were good assessment. But what I was referring to is the fact you got all these major if you're a comedian in Hollywood for many decades, the shores, the folks who ran the Comedy Store for many years, shores folks.

Yeah, they gave the.

Green light if you were getting on a Hollywood camera in front of the camera as a comedian in any film, like you were getting green lip by the shores, Right.

That's kind of kind of the way I look at the weird scenes aspect to it.

Sure.

I mean Sam brought that up in the interview I did with him, as he was like, think about the He didn't get too deep into it, he was a little vague, but he did say, like, think about that culture, all the heavy hitters going back to like the Eddie Murphy Robin Williams days, like everyone who's anyone is there at the comedy store. You think that it wasn't infiltrated by intelligence And he kind of left it at that, but yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, to build upon that with what Jay you said and what you're saying, it's almost, like you said, disingenuous. We see a track record of the Alphabet Boys and intelligentsia infiltrating every single faction of culture and influence, and so it would be somewhat educationally naive to not think that they have not infiltrated, especially the conspiracy realm, especially

Yeah, I don't know how much it applies to conspiracy podcasting as much as just the Internet and social media in general. Obviously we're all participating in that to promote every show and every venture that people have, But yeah, I think social media was kind of designed out of that.

Sometimes.

I also think, especially in the early days when there weren't as many podcasts, sometimes there was just value in having on a person who maybe is connected and like giving them enough rope to hang themselves with it. They say, you could look at my early comments section be like, man, I actually think I trusted this person when I only saw them on ancient aliens or only heard them in ten minute sound bites one hundred when you ask them deeper questions about their work and let them go for

And I'm glad you said. Yeah, that doesn't happen as.

Much these days. But it had a value for a certain amount of time.

I can imagine it was slim pickens there in the beginning too. As long as you've been doing it.

It's harder now.

Back when I was doing it, nobody was asking these people for interviews. They were jumping out a chance to be interviewed on a show that sound like shit and wasn't full of ads. Now, part of the reason why I'm pivoting to video is I have liked to present guests as best as I can through the audio quality, the intro, this and that, the audience size, but that video component is missing, and so I think it's harder

I don't.

Even so you know, you're in the top one percent of one percent of one percent, and I've never heard of your show. It's possible, I guess, but I have kind of had my finger on the pulse of this place for a while. So you're competing. You're trying to get an interview with someone who is in high demand, hearing kind of manipulated numbers from other people and having a video presentation where they're like, oh, well that.

Looks pretty good. People are vain.

They want to look good, they want to be presented well, and if all I have to show is audio, it's a little hard to show how well they'll be presented in that audio format. So it's another reason to pivot is I think I might go back to being able to get any guests I want, whereas right now I get more nose than I used to get. I get more knows today than I did years ago. And I think it's just the volume that shocks me, the volume of people asking.

And are you finding all of these guests yourself or do you rely on or do you have an assistant or anything else that's trawling the boards and stuff, because that's a ton of work. If I interviews a month and then reading their material or catching up with their videos and stuff like that, that's a lot.

Yeah, that is the part of the job. I've never outsourced. I outsourced the editing. I outsourced the clips. I have a team who makes social media clips, and you know how everybody's using the same AI little clip making things now and I'm like, you guys, go ahead and make them post them.

I don't care.

But other than that, I've never outsourced anything. It seems like that's the thing that can't be outsourced. I must, But like I said, people do pitch me and then I just don't want to say no.

I can't. Mario has been on.

I can't remember if I reached out to you or you reached out to me first.

I know you were familiar with me, which is the best.

The best is when I reach out to someone cold and they're like, I've listened to you for ten years. Oh great, so I don't have to make my pitch anymore. Let's just do a good interview. And it's like I picked them and they know me already. That's great, But I can't remember who pitched you.

But yeah, you reached out to me, and it was exactly that. I was like, oh, dude, I've been listening to you for like a long time.

Yeah, that's the best. But I get emails every day of it's usually from the same like pr formatted interview of like we love what you're doing at the higher side, chats, we want to introduce you to this person, and it's like almost always I should just say no to those, just on principle, like just don't just say a blanket no and go find your five each month.

You know, it's really a big deal.

I see in the chat someone wants to talk about Twiman, which I don't mind talking about, although it does get me in trouble because I don't choose my words carefully and sensitive subjects.

People don't like you to just wing it.

Yes, Oh well real, real, real quick, real quick, Robi, you want to know about Actually, could Robbie just go first before we get into that, because I didn't forget on the screen for that.

Well.

I was basically going to follow up on exactly what Lisa was talking about in regard to this, as you you know, you go back to the World's Fair and there was the Nimrod Ferranti first digital computer. It was a gaming computer and they've slowly worked it, you know, and then you get into Norbert Wiener and cybernetics, and you just follow this up into the modern you know,

I think it's a great question.

I have a lot of questions about that myself, because I do find psychedelics to be something that breaks you out of the materialist programming, and it's been hugely beneficial to me. I would say the category of marijuana, mushrooms, and basically in ayahuasca.

I would put those three things in a box.

I've never even I've done LSD a time or two and people love it and they say it's very mushrooms adjacent, but it is synthesized in a lab That kind of freaks me out a little bit, like what is the true agenda behind it? But really, I think anything that breaks you out of your rut and your programming is good.

But yet they are promoting it for sure.

I was talking to one of my return guests, Kris Knowles, about this one time, and he started talking about how he's getting these emails about so and so university wants you to come participate in the study mushrooms and or at least donate to it, and this is happening, and he's like, why are you being so nice to me?

And I just thought that was a.

Great way to phrase what he's talking about.

I just like, something's going on here. You're you're being too nice to me, You're talking about this too much. It just doesn't feel right, feels like an op so it's pushed exactly and I don't know why, because I thought the game was kind of to keep people in the materialist box. It could just be for that that whole hippie movement thing like let's get people distracted and navel gazing, so that it's another form of not doing

So and that's the thing. You know, You've been going through this material for fifteen years. You know, when I was thirteen, fourteen years old, I was reading Robert Anton Wilson, William Burrows, Carlos Castaneda. You know, so I've been marching down this road for like forty years. And philosophically, in the long run, it helps you cut the truth from

And you become a juggernaut for that force.

Unpotentially you know, you know, and and so it's like it's like just a bigger picture that is a long road that a lot of people really don't understand in regard to getting caught in these ideas, which I think is where the fault is within all of this stuff.

Really, you know, yeah, I agree with you.

Uh, I don't know exactlyactly why they're promoting mushrooms in particular is the one that I just find to be odd. Maybe they're gmo mushrooms are going to introduce and they've done something that sends you off into another direction or melts your mind in an unproductive way. It's just you can't deny that it's there. And the whole microdosing trend, I don't know what that's about. I think the point of mushrooms is to have a heroic experience, as Terrence

It's often how these things work.

Yeah, the venture.

As therapeutic, Yeah, exactly.

And it's the same universities who are involved in mk ultra that are now doing their mushroom studies and this and that.

It's definitely raise an eyebrow.

We're seeing a lot of mental breakdowns from the mix of pot and mushrooms, and I'm talking full blown psychosis for upwards of a year now, and we're seeing this constantly, specifically with dab and mushroom.

Oh I'm so glad you said that, because that's what I was thinking, because I do know a couple of people who dabs became their daily ingestion of marijuana and it did not go well. They spun off, lost their jobs, stop paying their mortgages, lost their homes.

Just decision casualty.

Yeah.

Like I just always say, like, does is it serving you? Is it doing? Like for me, marijuana serves me pretty well. It might not always now, it just serves me in the evenings to me and my wife are like, well we got through another day with these kids, Like now they're asleep, Now we're relaxing, and we'll start again tomorrow. But like that's something that I feel like I earn

Well, I think they're tainting it. I think you're right, I think sometimes for sure.

Well, also there's when you get into Hourly and looking at his background and the chemical research that he was involved in. One of the substances that they tried to introduce later was the substance STP that basically when you take it, it's like LSD, but it wrecks you for like weeks on end, and like people don't come back

So yeah, a lot of it is a numbers game.

They introduce something because they know X amount of people will burn out on it, and they'll the ones who get through, they'll find another challenge for those people. If it isn't just the economic burden that we're under, it'll be something else.

I actually had a.

Quick question, Greg, how do you personally reconcile rectify perhaps the current state of how the conspiracy community or the conspiracy canon maybe is a more interesting metafictional way to

I mean, it's a good question, and it is a case by case basis.

I suppose on a lot of subjects, but I usually cite the line in the the theme song for the show, which I wrote, is we know they're lying to us.

We don't know to what degree.

So you know, I might go to an eight on a certain thing, but I've never really closed off from the upper levels. It's just, you know, because I've been burned before. I think we've all been like, no, I'm super sure about this one thing, and then you're presented with new information You're like, wow, I'm changing my mind about that.

I never thought I would.

So that's why I.

Try not to get too attached anymore. But I think that some things go to a level of silliness. And you know I say that now I hear myself saying it, and it's like, well, you know, we throw out an example of it.

The mudflood stuff doesn't really resonate with me all that much.

But then I'm sure there's people on this call who are like, what, Like, that's my old bread and butter, the mud flood. There's definitely areas where you can see that buildings go down like they have been buried on that first floor. Sometimes there's an explanation for it, like the earthquakes that happened in San Francisco. Sometimes there isn't an explanation for it. The World's fair stuff is really interesting.

I have lived in.

At least two of the major places. Saint Louis, and I mean Saint Louis, Chicago and San Diego are all big World's Fair cities, and all of them have buildings which the official story says these buildings were built quickly just for the World's Fair, with the intention of being taken down afterwards, and they're still there, and they definitely are made of real building materials. These aren't paper mache buildings.

So Chris and shit like that.

Yeah, and you can kind of start to put together a romanticized version of the past where no, they did know about the ether, and they did know about energy, and these cathedrals were built to well up energy and this and that. I want to believe some of that stuff, but I don't know there's much of a record of it at all. But then they control the record. So can you really wipe out something absolutely? That's really what

It's a little flimsy.

And that's just kind of the general approach, I would go about all the stuff we look at.

I'm just kind of curious in terms of what resonates with your audience. I know you've gone through multiple eras. I don't know how many, you know, fifteen years. That's a long time in the world of the internet, you know, Yeah, but like what really clicks with people, what gets the most engagement and stuff like that, and maybe also to what gets the most engagement and what resonates that you didn't think necessarily would, what surprise you in that regard.

Well, what resonates that doesn't surprise me is like synchro mysticism stuff and really stuff adjacent to what you do. I think people love to see those examples. So first, I always say that I think a lot of us get into conspiracy because there is a charge that you get from your first like crack in an official narrative. You're like, WHOA, something didn't look right about that. But now I saw a documentary that showed me what it

Able to fix it.

That's where it all falls apart, because you have people in your life who won't even look at it, and when even ones who do, who definitely won't go there or change their worldview at all. So the charge thing, I think that charge starts to wane over time. It's hard to get that charge again. It's hard to really blow your mind with a totally new subject. But what does it for me is synchronistic examples, because there's many of them, and you're just like wow. The first atomic

It's like, well that happened. It's like, yeah, I mean, what's going on?

Are the writers of the reality script the same as the Hollywood writers? I don't so those examples because they keep coming up. I think are fun, and I think people resonate with it because they like what excites the host. I guess, you know, we're on this journey together. If I'm excited and enjoyed, then sure. But I think the

And through your example, you buck.

That trend of conspiracy theorists looking like paranoid tinfoil hatters in a bunker somewhere.

You know, Actually, no, I'm living a pretty good life.

And you know, COVID was great for that because I even I mean, I'm not going to dig through it, but I have I have some pieces of art around that kind of really did the whole that signify the meme that was going around at the time, really, which is like, here's a conspiracy theorist and it's just like

So that kind of flipped it.

But I like to try to flip the archetype of the paranoid conspiracy person by living a better example talking about this stuff without screaming and shouting like Alex Jones might.

And I don't know, I kind of lost the thread there, but.

There you go.

No, you brought up COVID, and actually I'm just curious. Was COVID a boon THHC.

For a time? Yeah, for a time, so part of the reason I'm doing the transition to video is numbers have dropped off a little bit, and I don't I'm not in any trouble, not that big of a deal. I don't even pay attention to the first hour numbers because I don't do ad so I don't get anything from it. It's just a feeder for people who want to get the deeper experience for eight bucks a month. But the free show numbers have dropped since twenty twenty two, and I think there's a bunch of reasons. I think

Also the competition, so a lot of people stayed home and probably started podcasts.

Right, Yeah, that's a whole other factor.

Okay, Greg, I have got a quick last one.

I was told to make sure I get it in, so I'm going to credit Lisa for bringing up the idea of meta theology.

So I want to ask you, do you are you.

Hyper Uranian closed model of the universe believer or perhaps a transpout tony in open expansive infinite in its expanse universe enjoyer.

Man, I you're talking over my head, but if you're basically asking is it a closed system or an open system? I do think that's like a really fundamental question, and people I admire thinkers, I admire and have both opinions. Gordon White's been on the show a bunch more than anyone, really, but we did an episode where he made his case for that and said, like, the Earth is more like a reef if you scale it up. There's a cosmic ocean and Earth is just a shore on that ocean.

You might think the rockets don't go anywhere, So it is kind of difficult.

Like with the rockets thing, that's kind of the where I look for, is it an open or closed system? And I think when you watch the rocket launches and you watch them to the end, it looks like they hit something or they spin out, Like if you look at a drone shot a bird's eye view of a speedboat in the ocean and the wave pattern it makes behind it when it changes direction.

That is what I see with these rockets. I don't see them slowly fade out of view and like go off in the space. They seem to like do a.

Thing where they create a huge disturbance, as if they're going through water, and that's just an observer thing. We know, we can't trust of the observer effect one hundred percent, but in this world it's something to go on. But then it's like, so it seems like things come into the system. And that's where I kind of get this. Like a lot of my guests recently have been using.

The term realm.

They just say realm to get past flat earth, round Earth thing. And I like saying realm because I do think in kind of the older models, the Greek model of stacked realities, like you go up to a spiritual plane, like what is up?

Really?

I don't really know, but it seems like there are higher dimensional intelligences that we have communications with. They're somewhere. They're not in this system exactly, but very close to it. The next system over, which seems to be described as higher in some form or fashion. And so I think I'm I think I'm an open system. Probably it could be a closed system, but a much bigger one than

I'm an open I'm an open system. I believe in the infinite capacity for loving kindness. Personally, I'd argue with that, Yeah, sure you because I followed Dharma, so you know I'm serious about it. I may have that discordan that trickster sometimes personality online, But the way I present my show is it's a serious, speculative show. So I treat it maybe the opposite way that you do, but I think maybe in the same polarity.

I would I would describe mine as as serious and speculative.

I think you're serious, but I think you you really go for the material and I and I really look for the seed and sort of play with it. That's sort of how I approach it. I mean, I'm not saying it's definitely, it's not opposite.

To you at all, just I mean your best.

Well, I have a follow up for you Hyperspace Kingdoms and the pink Ray. Where do you fall on those things?

Hyperspace Kingdoms and what was the other one?

And the pink Ray?

I don't think I know what the pink ray is? Is that the thing people are seeing in their dreams.

Philip K.

Dick saw the pink ray.

Oh okay, I that's but yeah, but is that a Jenuflex then.

Uh yeah, I mean it is from Jenny Flex, but she was not the first one.

And we have it in Vadriana, we have it in Tragia, all the contras, like all her like all magic. Basically, the pink is a spectral color. It's the color of the crystal millennium kingdom, if you want to call it that, the kingdom of your so the kingdom of the moon. So it's it's the truth in a way, and it's the relative truth because it gives contour to the things that arise around it and from it, meaning the crown or cather So that's why it can also be likened to a five pedaled flower, like.

A rose.

Anyway, So it's a it's a it's not a real color. It's something our mind sort of projects onto the world. And that's why it's best exemplified as a flower because it only exists in time, which is also contained in the mind.

It's only temporary spectral.

Very interesting.

When and the hyperspace kingdoms, then I take to mean I mean what I would interview Tracy, we would talk about it. It was always so Masonic adjacent that the kind of the premise was that through ritual, a certain group of people, maybe many, have figured out a way to unlock spaces in hyperspace that you can repeatedly go to.

I think, Sorry, I really.

I was gonna say the Witch's Sabbath, how they all meet on the mountain a certain time of year through astral travel, et cetera.

Yeah, go ahead, Nick, No, No, you're Greg. I'm assuming you're probably just from a Facebook and a Facebook Jesus Christ Facebook Twitter X page. You might have noticed the logo that Mario created for us, if you happen to notice it, the the you know, the the eclipse with

I did have a couple of salvia experiences that were kind of like that, and mine were fine. But I've read once I had a crazy salvia experience. I went reading other reports, and some of those reports are terrifying, where they will say their consciousness was projected into a wooden table and a diner, and they existed as a table, trapped consciousness in a table for what felt like twenty years,

I had is not real.

Oh, and then they experienced the loss of their entire family, quote unquote, and some never come out of that depression. So I put salvia down because I was a little worried of that kind of thing, but my experience made it possible to understand how that could happen.

But I'm just very lucky that it was never torturous.

It was always just like it was enough to blow the doors off materialism, but it wasn't much scarier than that.

Interesting, did anybody else have any more questions? Anything?

You know, it's a really straightforward, kind of mundane question. But how long did it take before you knew that Higher Side was a viable, you know, career for you? Because I think it's important to kind of talk about sometimes because people start projects and they think it should be successful way sooner than you know what, they kind of know things to actually like be like out there, you know, in terms of getting traction and engagement and

Well, the numbers are a little fuzzy to me now, but I did make a roadmap that is on my about page that anyone could check out, and that is the real numbers. But if I remember correctly, I mean I started the show in twenty ten, and I changed it around until it felt like something I would listen to. And then I kept doing that for several years, and I think I quit my job in twenty fourteen. I think I did it for four years without making any money. I mean, I did do something called the money Bomb,

That's more than a lot of jobs pay. And if you want to scale it.

Up for inflation, say two thousand, you know, if you can make if you can get two thousand people to like what you do enough to contribute five bucks, it's not a small amount of money. So yeah, I think I quit. I quit when I had to quit, So my boss started to see through me, so he started to see that my heart wasn't in it that I wasn't paying as much attention to the finer details, and he was like, I want you to come in for a meeting because like your performance is slipping really bad.

You know, you caught me.

I have this other thing going, and I think that I'm just going to dedicate all my time to that because I'm not going to be able to reapply the energy that I had applied previously, And now that you already are onto me and I can't hide behind people who are doing worse, then let's just call it in. And it was hard for the first couple of years for sure, but you know, and again like a thousand people's what you was my metric I wanted to hit.

It's not what I went for.

It's not like I went from zero to a thousand, you know, even five hundred people. Now I'm making the same amount of money I made at game Stop. Isn't that sad that it only takes five hundred people at five dollars a month to make the same as this dedicated store manager of a two million dollars store for a corporation that's making billions of dollars.

Not fucking sad.

But that's the the silver lining is like when you launch something, whether it's a physical product, when you put yourself out there, you realize, hey, we're all bred to be consumers, so give them some to consume.

Mm hmm, right, yeah, exactly.

I'm guilty too.

You know, I don't say that like with any kind of judgment.

I mean I consume like the best of them, and uh just It's also like, if you want to just be a consumer, great, but if you want to take advantage of the culture that's been crafted and the way we've all been programmed, give people a product and some people will find it.

Well, and you're passionate about it. It's not fake. So I listen to your show.

So that's that's the big That's the big thing right there, is you have to have the fire behind what you're doing or people just you know, they sense it and.

They are sometimes the one hundred so much not wanting to go back to that life.

Go right, I can understand that. That's a good point. Yeah, right, Uh. One thing, I mean I did want to bring up, and I feel like it was like so like forty five minutes ago, but like you know, and then maybe will wrap it up on the samebody's get all the questions. But uh, I would say, with the amount of time that you've been around when it came to conspiracy theories, in probably I guess maybe even the occult world at the beginning, do you remember anybody ever picking sides politically?

Hmmm, I mean that is a good question. It definitely was less politicized right. In fact, I was liberal in college and when I started I think I still remained kind of a liberal person because liberal to me was just like compassionate. It's not like I trusted the government and I wanted a nanny state and wanted to delegate more of my taxes to the government, or thought they were efficient or even genuine at what they said they

So if you say, well, I binally.

Thought Kamala and Biden and that whole apparatus would have been terrible. But DOJ is really just clearing people out for AI to take over a lot of the middle management of the entire government. People say, oh, you're just a DeBie downer, like, don't be so black pilled, have some faith faith in another elected leader when we can already chart they all come from Freemason's skull and bones, Bohemian grove, have Israeli passports, you know, name your thing.

We just don't know.

So I'm going to go with the track record and not trust anyone who can earn that position.

That's a good point.

And they're actually all the presidents for remembers of one specific secret society, and that's the secret society that started Aerica, the Society of Cincinnati, started by George Washington and.

His officers and exists today. So most of the powerful.

Names you see in American culture and in politics are hereditary members from you know, bloodline descendants from the original members.

See I've heard that, but I've never I've never heard it exalted to like that high of a level.

Every president also gets membership. It's so you know, you know, I agree there is some freemasons.

I think.

In Cincinnatis, Cincinnatison that since was the one that was working the farm life, and the Roman government needed him, so he went in, he did his state craft, and when he was done, he left and went back to his farm. So it's this idea that every citizen should participate within the governmental process. And then well, you know, and with the society of Cincinnati is generally high level military presidential JJ would know more about that.

For a minute. I'm back my back.

Now. It's uh yeah, I mean it's every It's so it's the officers of Washington's army and Washington a lot of the founding fathers and all of their now paternal hereditary descendants, so paternal bloodlines. But includes French folks too, so but it's uh, basically a lot of generals, a lot of politicians. John McCain would be a great example. John McCain, the former US senator. He was John McCain number three. His dad was John McCain junior. John McCain senior.

You know, paternal heritage wise. So I presume John.

Oh Man, they're messing with him, yeah, or it's a big connection and moving his hand. He's too much bandwidth to your about the whole change and Doge and everything.

I just thought it was funny that we're right at the point where Trump's bringing back the world's.

Fairs in what two weeks? Yeah, very interesting.

The Belile group is going to come by in the armand group and start nailing us all here with AI soon right.

This time you are burned down, and who knows, you know.

I do think there's a compelling argument about the cyclical nature likes this big loop. I mean, the thing that people worship today, the Cobba stone. What is that it looks like a computer? Does it look does the big

Make sure there's no cows my lanterns right, like to make sure of that.

Yes, exactly, no Chicago fires.

All right. I think we've been going on for a while. I think we can wrap it up now. So I really appreciate you coming on. That was an awesome talk. So it's wild, Like I guess it's wild to be like, you know, I was listening to this guy how long ago when I had him on my show. It's pretty surreal and it was a it was a wild experience. So thank you for making that happen. I really appreciate you coming on.

I have that feeling all the time that I would listen to somebody back in the coast to coast days and then I get a chance to interview him like a Richard Hoglan or something, or even David Ike or RFK Junior. You know, it is pretty surreal. So I definitely vibe with you on that feeling. And thanks for having me.

This has been fun.

I feel like I'm not worthy of being like the center point of ten people's conscious, active, live attention.

But here we are. We made it through. Yeah, yes we did. I think I think it went well. I had a great time again. Uh yeah, Greg, I mean, I'm pretty sure everybody already knows your deal, but let everybody know where they can find your amazing work.

Pleas for sure the Higher Side chats dot com. The first hour of every interview is free. The second hour is if you want to sign up for eight bucks a month awesome.

And everybody else you already introduced yourselves. We're not going to spend another twenty minutes to wrap it up. If their links aren't in the bottom as of right now, I will make sure they will. They will be there after I go off. But yes, so if you want to check everybody else out, everything's in the bottom. Thanks again, Greg, that was an amazing, amazing discussion, and thank you for the chat. I appreciate everybody jumping on everybody into the chat.