Lee Harvey Oswald In Black and White with James Day - podcast episode cover

Lee Harvey Oswald In Black and White with James Day

Nov 04, 20251 hr 56 min
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Transcript

Speaker 1

I'm back with Corey Hughes Bloody History. Corey, thanks for being with me.

Speaker 2

Thank you for having me. You're one of my You're one of my favorite Kennedy researchers of the day. Like your work is stellar, and I think that more people should be exposed to your work. And you really blew me away with your video on the Israeli war bonds. That is so that is like such upper level research that most people just breeze over that and never even look at it. I was very very stoked on that video. So yes, thank you for having me here again.

Speaker 1

Thanks, Corey. We're here to discuss Corey's a new book, relatively new book came out in July. We're in November. Right now here. It is right here, Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White, Volume one. Now, Corey, what's now? Corey? This is your Is this your second published book? Yes? Okay, Warning from History was your first book that you've ever written? Yes? Wow, okay, So the book, now, the Housewall book has been out, like I said, for a few months. How would you

summarize the reaction so far? From that? The maybe the JFK community specifically has well.

Speaker 2

I don't think I don't think most of them know it exists yet. So my first book we did, so it's really wild. I look back at some of the stuff that I did and the techniques I did to sell books and whatnot, and like, I did a pre sale on my first book for like a year, which is crazy because if I were to try that today, it would never work. I know it would never work, and I don't know how it worked the first time. But I sold a ton of pre sales and that got the word out. So then when my book actually

came out, it did really good. Right from the start, this one, like nobody knew was coming. I had no promotion, no nothing, and it just popped up one day, right. So I've probably sold about one hundred copies, which is, you know, for an independent publisher with no PR marketing or you know, that's it's not bad. So but as far as the content goes, everyone who reads it is shocked. They don't really know what to think. I wrote the

damn book, and I don't know what to think. So I anticipate a lot of people will read it and get confused because it kind of jumps right into the too Oswald stuff I tried to take a little bit of time in the beginning, if you notice the first like fifty pages or so, I don't really address that until we get into like forty five and forty six, when we get like the mastoidectomy and the tonsilectomy and

all the stuff that seems to disappear later on in life. Right, So I don't really bring that the two oswalding into it until then because you have to kind of see that Oswald's background is tumultuous, I guess is a word that you could use. It's kind of all over the place, not very well documented, and there's a lot of contradiction and weird stuff. Like some of the things that really

capt my attention are Marguerite Oswald. When Robert Oswald Senior died, she tried to have him buried the same day and didn't even notice notify the family. This is crazy to me. This is this is like to me. Character development is very important in the Kennedy story and obviously in the life of Oswald. And what does that tell you about her character? Like that is some crazy stuff right there.

And the weird thing is when you read about Marguerite Oswald, you'll come to understand that she had made it very clear to everyone, and everyone could see this that the happiest time she had in her life was when she was Ruth Robert Oswald, and so she truly loved the guy. And so for her to be able to just he died, let's bury him right away, like that's that's psychopathic behavior. If he asked me, so one example, Yeah, this is

one example. All kinds of stuff that pops up in the early life of Oswald, and then you get into Oswald's family that's like crazy stuff like Oswald. I think

it would be a great uncle. Paul Polo Voitier was one of Hughey Long's bodyguards, clearly one of the two men who shot him, right, So this is incredibly insane and I can't believe no one's ever made this conclusion, draw this conclusion before that information has been out there forever, Like Paul Pole of Voitier was one of Huelung's bodyguards. He's in all the books, he's in all the newspaper articles.

All the speculation about his murder brings up Paul Pole of Voitier, and it's Oswald's uncle Jesus Christ, two of the most important assassinations in American history, and you got the Oswald family tied into it.

Speaker 1

It's it's.

Speaker 2

There's something more there that we are unaware of, a familial intelligence link through the votiers that will probably never have answers to I Literally one day, I'm probably gonna have to go to New Orleans and go to the archives and pull physical documents because none of the stuff is online as far as the Voittier background, you know, and then that will tie into the duplicates, the dupal get Marguerite Oswald's stuff, you know, as Oswald's life progresses.

Speaker 1

So we're gonna get into all that, Hopefully, I'm going to approach some of these questions as if if I'm my audience is my mother who was fifteen when JFK was shot, And boy, that was strange. What Jack Ruby? Did you know that kind of stuff? She might be open to a conspiracy and all that, but it's just odd, lu she don't we just let the man rest, you know,

that kind of stuff. So, and I think that's a lot of people because Corey, wait what before we get into the specifics, what I wanted to mention and get you talking about was even from a warning from history and this book you demolish conventional understanding of the case as it was presented to us officially, I mean even within the Warren Commission, or you're calling out actual testimony as fabrication.

Speaker 2

Right, Yeah, So, so I wanted the very thesis is about the idea that there were two Oswald's going back to the time he was a child, and that this was some part of some greater intelligence operation known as an identity transfer, where somebody acts as an identity donor and you have somebody who uses that identity. In this case for most of Oswald's life, I believe you have two people using the same identity, and at times a third person using the identity, and even possibly more that

we haven't even discovered yet. But it becomes very clear that Oswald was engaged in something going back to a time before there was a CIA, before there was even an OSS, to when Oswald's name and his history start to appear in two different places. Ultimately, when you create a timeline of Oswald's life, you get two timelines. And so the person who really brought this to the forefront, if you can say that, was John Armstrong, whose work

today is marginal mostly marginalized. And the reason the work is mostly marginalized is because the conclusions that he drew as far as the assassination go, and the conclusions that he drew as far as the two Oswald's go, he couldn't tell when one story ended and another began, and

he melded them all together into one big story. So all of the duplicate Oswald stuff that occurs during the assassination that I attribute to William Seymour and Carrie Thornley, primarily with a couple extras, he attributed to this duplicate Oswald who was present the whole time that Lee Harvey

Oswald was growing up. And so that's where he went off the deep end and he basically lost everybody because understanding the difference between these operations is paramount, and it's wild that Oswald was part of multiple identity transfer operations, one as a child up through him getting out of the Marines and going to Russia, and another one post you know, basically January of sixty one with the bolton Ford incident starts off the long line of impersonations of

Oswald while he's still in the so Union. But then once he gets back in June sixty two, they really start to ramp up, and Oswald is seen all over the place with a shady group of characters. And yes, it's a very, very fascinating tale. And so even people who are on board with the impersonations of Oswald in the assassination story, a lot of them fall off the wagon when I get to the duplic at Oswald going back to the time when he was like two years old.

Speaker 1

And that's what this book's about, folks. I mean, this is basically the beginning from nineteen thirty nine to basically fifty six or so. There, Corey, this.

Speaker 2

Is yeah, October twenty fourth, fifty six.

Speaker 1

And so it was nice, a nice gesture. You dedicated the book to John Armstrong, which I thought was good. But you make a point at some point in your videos or something where you say, look, here's some newspaper articles, here's some magazine articles that have been put out throughout the years talking about a kind of dual identity going on.

And it's so this has been out there. You're trying to tell people like, this isn't some kind of theory plucked out of obscurity by some of the by someone on an education for.

Speaker 2

Him correct, and the first observations of the possibility of there having been two Oswald's throughout his childhood. That goes back way before John Armstrong. I don't remember which book it was, but there was a book that came out, I believe in the late nineteen sixties after Garrison's investigation, that talked about the possibility that Oswald was replaced by the Soviets, like the Soviets sent somebody back. That's definitely

not true. I mean, the photographic record, there's so much evidence that the person who went to the Soviet Union and who came back was in fact one of the Oswalds who and we'll call him Harvey Oswald. And the reason we call Harvey Oswald it's not because we're making it up and we're trying to play a game with the name Lee Harvey Oswald, is because this person identified themselves to people they knew all throughout their growing up and even as an adult as Harvey Oswald.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

We even have documentation, there's upwards of seventy five to one hundred documents that show the name Harvey Lee Oswald many many years after the assassination, going on into the seventies. A Defense Intelligence Agency document with the handwritten scribble Harvey Lee Oswald came out in seventy eight. Now I'm sorry, but sixteen years after the assassination, the name Lee Harvey Oswald is ingrained in everyone's head. Everyone knows Lee Harvey Oswald.

Why is it that all these years later the intelligence community is still passing around documents that says Harvey Lee Oswald? Because Harvey Lee Oswald was a different person from Lee Harvey Oswald. And for me, the evidence of this begins in nineteen forty one, but technically that doesn't come out until Oswald submits his application to the Marines in fifty six, because when he does his basic brief biography, where did

you live? He puts that he lived in Fort Worth starting in nineteen forty one, when we know that Lee Harvey Oswald lived in New Orleans, basically bouncing back and forth between Lillian Moretz and the Bethlehem Orphanage all the way up until basically January of forty four, when he's taken out of the orphanage, and then in April of forty four they move into the Victor Street address in Dallas, where they'll be for the next year year and a half or so. So we have that major conflict. And

that's just the first one. That was one of the most recent contradictions that I found in the record. But really you start to run into problems in the fall of nineteen forty five. Fall in nineteen forty five, they're supposed to be at the Victor Street address in Dallas. But what you have is you have Robert Oswald testify to the Warrant Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald edwin at Dahl and Marguerite went up to Boston and spent approximately six months in Boston, and during that time they did

some traveling cross country. They're photographed in Arizona during this time. Well, at the exact same time, starting in October of nineteen forty five, you've got Lee Harvey Oswald enrolled at the Benbrook Common School in Benbrook, Texas. And this opens up a real can of worms here, because after they leave the Victor Street address in Dallas, they go to Covington, Louisiana, or they go back to Louisiana. We go to Covington,

and this is where Oswald goes to the Covington Grammar School. Well, you have a researcher and a lawyer for the Warrant Commission named John hart Eli, who basically was the guy tasked with the background of Oswald. And this guy, when you go through all of his notes and he was prolific in his notes, he couldn't figure out a damn thing. He couldn't figure out when anybody was ware because the testimony of Robert Oswald and Marguerite Oswald contradicted with school

records and all this other stuff. So in this nineteen forty six ish time period, when Oswald goes to the ben to the grammar school in Covington, you have John hart Eli concluding that he obviously could have only lived there for like three or four months over the summer, and that was his final conclusion. But we have the school record showing that he finished out that semester there

before they returned to Fort Worth. However, Robert Oswald testifies that all through forty six and through Christmas forty six they were living in Benbrook at an address that nobody knows because it was just out a po box because

it was nothing really built up out there. So the heavy duty contradictions really start with the trip to Boston while he's going to Benbrook, and then all the stuff that goes on at Covington in Louisiana that's all contradicted and when So who the hell knows what's the real story? We don't know, but we have a photograph of Oswald there, and Oswald did finish this semester through the end of the year, or not the school year, but the end

of the actual year in forty six. And then in forty seven he's back at Ridge Lee West Elementary School, right,

And so yeah, it's a whole big cluster. And it's funny because I read, I try to read some books about Oswald's past, and people try to like come up with a timeline, and they end up having to ignore half the data in order to construct the timeline, because everybody discounts the fact that there were two Lee Harvey Oswald's and that this was an intentional plot going back, you know, to before the time of the modern intelligence agencies.

Speaker 1

So, folks, if you're thinking this is just another kind of rundown biography of Lee Harvey Oswald's life, it's anything. But what Corey is doing is he's kind of actually revising the traditional accepted narrative of who this man was, and more importantly, Corey, who these families are, right, because this is not a story about a kind of loaner who was drifting through life and decided to take his revenge on.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Right, You make a point that this is really about a deep deception going on. And I wanted to ask, and you call it an identity transfer program, why did you come up with Where did you come up with the idea that it's out of naval intelligence?

Speaker 2

Well, just because the origins pre date CIA and OSS. Right, so in nineteen forty five when the Benbrook stuff is going on, but he's actually up in Boston going around and we have the school records from ben Brook and Robert Os when all that's going on, there's no CIA at that time, and the OSS was pretty goddamn busy, they were. I'm pretty sure the OSS was not running domestic identity transfer operations. So who does that leave us with?

Naval intelligence? Nobody else? And that would correspond with Oswald being in the Marines, because Marine and all that Marine intelligence fell into the Navy, And so to me, it just it made a whole lot of sense. And then when you have the little tidbits of information about Marguerite Oswald. And so this is something we need to talk about, is Marguerite Oswald's lies about forty one to forty four. Because Marguerite Oswald joined the navy. This is a fact.

She wrote it in the book with Gene Stafford, a mother in History, that she worked as a switchboard operator for the naval base at Algier's Louisiana in nineteen forty two. Okay, stop the presses. This is the most blockbuster statement that's been in the zeitgeist for fifty years. Since nineteen sixty six when that book was written, this information has been

out there. It's blockbuster because when you study the Navy in nineteen forty two, and how is it that Marguerite Oswald who didn't have any jobs, and then all of a sudden she's working for the navy when she's supposed to be working at retail, like at department stores. How does this come about? Well, when you dig into the navy and what they were doing in forty two, well, everyone left to go to the war, so were the whole navy was like, oh my god, we got nobody here.

So the creator was called the Navy Waves program, which is the Women in the Navy program, which technically they were civilians, but a lot of the women who were in this civilian program ended up transitioning to be in the actual Navy. A couple of years after the war when they started to let women in. I think was like forty seven, forty eight something like that they let women into the Navy, and the first batch came from this program. But this program was designed to fill the

slots that they needed. And it wasn't just secretarial work. It was everything. They taught women, cryptography and all the stuff that the men did. They taught women intelligence, you know, firearms, like the whole nine yards. They were actual soldiers, I guess you could say. And so so Marguerite Oswald kind of disappears off the radar in late forty one. At this time, we know that Lillian Mourette took in Marguerite took in league for eight or nine months before he

ends up going to the Betham Orphanage. Then he's in the Bethham Orphanage for I guess about a year or so, but they would come frequently and take him out, and this I don't know how it didn't cause resentment amongst him and his two other brothers, because the two other brothers in the bethl hedmorphanage also. But Lee was taken out on a fairly regular basis to go do things. I don't know how that didn't cause some family resentment,

but it obviously didn't. But Marguerite Oswald will tell different people she's working at a shoe store, or she's working at retail, or she's working for the Pittsburgh plate Glass Company, which is what she told Myrtle Evans. And then so we don't really know what she's doing this entire time. The only indication we have are some addresses that she gave allegedly in New Orleans and Algiers in nineteen forty two. So she gives two addresses, twenty one to thirty six

Broadway and two two seven Atlantic Avenue. Okay, I grew up in Brooklyn. The split second I heard those addresses, I'm like, oh, that's New York. That was my very first instinct. And then I went and I start going through the documents, and they're supposed to be in New Orleans and Algiers, but they go and they interview people who live there. They're like, yeah, nobody ever lived here by that name, like it's just a bad address. She gave bad addresses, and she gave this address on like

credit forms, she gave it to her doctor. She gave these bad addresses as her official addresses everywhere. But those addresses don't make sense until you put them in New York. And once you put those addresses in New York, you realize that twenty one to thirty six Broadway is the Hotel Belvedere I believe it's called, and it was only nine miles from the Waves training facility in the Bronx, Okay.

Plus add to the fact Marguerite Oswald is only lived at that address for three weeks, and it's like, duh, of course that's where she was. She was up there in forty one forty two training at the Navy Waves facility. Then by summer forty two she's obviously back down in Algiers working as the phone operator. So to me, filling in the gap of her being in New York for that time is ultra important. And why else is it ultra important? Because during nineteen forty two is when she

allegedly met edwin Ekdahl. But she supposedly met him, well, nobody never really knows where she met him. It's only you know, hearsay as to how they met. But to me, it's pretty damn clear. They met up in New York. He was only twenty miles from her address in New York, and that's the year they met, and both of them happened to be there at the same time. And then we don't have a real story on how they actually met. Yeah, bs, they met and there's some intelligence guys in New York.

I have no doubts. And so it's not until April of forty four that they move into Victor Street. So you have this huge gap of like three years that really we don't know what the hell Marguerite's doing. This is why the tax records are so important, because we don't have any. Why not Corey, because you're know, well, they fall back on this privacy thing. Well, everyone's fucking dead, so what do you care about privacy? Okay, so they say it's a privacy issue and it's federal law. But

that's just like, guy, they're hiding behind that. Because if we get some tax records and it shows Marguerite Oswald was on the payroll navel of the Navy for like four or five years, you know. And it's another thing about Margerit Oswell. She claimed that she was broke like her whole life. She wasn't broke her whole life. When Robert Oswald died, she got either five or ten thousand dollars. We haven't really been able to determine, but it's one of those two. She had enough money to live all

the way into nineteen forty one. And she's also getting money from ed pick As. She's getting alimony like twenty dollars a month, which is a decent amount back then. And she held onto the Alvar Street property where Oswald lived that when he was born and where Robert Oswald died. She held onto that place for like four or five years, you know, before it was sold to I forget the guy's name off hand. But she ends up having so she has rental income property, she has alimony coming in.

She obviously has this job at the Navy doing whatever right. She had this money left over from when Robert Oswell died. She's lived in the high life. But she's crying, poor me, I don't have any money to take care of my children, so I got to put him in the orphanage and let my sister take care of him. Whatever. You're a psychopath, Okay, the real Margaret's a psychopath, and so.

Speaker 1

Let's stick with her for a minute. Tell me what is a what is the definition of a legend? And would you classify Marguerite Oswald as a legend?

Speaker 2

A legend is a false background that's created for intelligence purposes. And that's a lot of time where identity transfer comes in, because you can just identity transfer into someone's complete background without having to create a legend, you know what I mean. So the legend system and the identity transfer system are kind of like they're connected in that way because you can either build a legend over time or you can just swap out a person and get an instant background. So,

but I don't know. I kind of feel to some degree that this was experimentation on their part because they were real sloppy and when we look at their records now and the contradictions, when I see contradictions, to me, that's them being sloppy. They didn't have a tight lid

on this thing. And other than them funneling her money, which I'm sure they did in some way, which I can't detect maybe through these fake rental properties that she had, because she had rental properties for like the whole time, her whole life, she had rental properties that she never had any money from. So I don't know what they were really doing in as far as this is the thing I'm this is the thing that really drives me to understand the mechanisms of how this would have worked

on a operational level. Right, So, research with Diana Thomas kind of she determined that when you look at all of Oswald's addresses growing up, he lived in extremely close proximity to either a lunatic asylum or an orphanage and all of those that are involved with the state and the church, right the state and the church are running those And she thought it was an extremely weird coincidence. And I do too, and I think it needs to be needs some major investigation because somehow they were giving

her some kind of support. They had to give her some sort of support or direction or something, because you're not going to raise two children under the same name, under two different Margueritie Oswald's and not have some kind of standard operating procedures that you're going to try to implement, right, there's got to be protocols and and all that stuff, but we don't have any of that stuff, and so a lot of it feels like they were winging it.

But another problem is that, in hindsight, we have a ton of documents from all this time, but we have a ton missing. So a lot of this story we only know about because they were bad at filtering out the documents that indicate that there were two Oswald's, you know what I mean. So, but then again, you have people coming into the story twenty thirty years after the fact, after Kennedy's assassination, having to go through this stuff, and do you think everybody's in on the two oswald scheme? No,

that was a need to know only. So I think people who were going through documents to release stuff didn't know what they could release and what they couldn't release, And that's how we get a lot of the contradictory information.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

There's some documents out there that are mind blowing that they should never have given to us, but they did, like the Frank choloona document, like the Kerry Thornley AFFI David. There's so many things that we shouldn't have because they spill the beans, but yet we have them, which tells me that people releasing documents don't know what they have, right, And so that's a big problem with putting together the

life of Oswald and his mother. Well, I've kind of got I think, I think I have a pretty good idea of like the two paths that went that, But there's still some major gaps, major gaps.

Speaker 1

Why is January nineteen forty five so important in the life of Lee Oswald? Now, Lee Oswald would have been just about not yet two and a half years old, I'm sorry, not yet not yet six and a half.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so in forty five, six forty five is when he had the ton selectomy from doctor Philbin. And that's important because later on in the Marines, Oswald will have his tonsils inflamed twice, maybe even three times. He has to go in because his tonsils are inflamed. Now, I did see some rebuttal to this that one of the ways that they did ton selectomies back in the day didn't involve the removal of the tonsils completely. But I've read all of the rebuttal stuff on this, and there's

just no evidence of that whatsoever. As far as Oswald goes the paperwork very clearly shows he how tonsilectomy, and then we have swollen tonsils. Those two things are incongruent, and we have no evidence to the contrary that he had some sort of problematic operation. There's no notes or anything to indicate that surgery was incomplete or problematic or anything like that. So we just don't know. But this

always seems to be a rebuttal to everything. This time period is important also because in forty six we'll get to his he had a mastoid ectomy on his left ear, which left a big star right here behind the left ear, and this I believe is one of the most important events in Oswald's life because this appears to have shaped his behavior and personality. And so this oftentimes, even when there were kids around, Oswald didn't want to go outside and play with other kids. Why would you do that?

Why would you rather stay at home? Why would you feel inadequate to go play with them? Because obviously, to me, it's pretty obvious this all started after forty six, and this is all part of the mastoid ectomy, and this becomes more apparent that it was more of a problem than we know of when he gets up to the school in New York and stuff. Hang on on my dogout real quick.

Speaker 1

All right, that's okay. We'll get into the New York stuff in a little bit.

Speaker 2

But the masthoid ectomy I believe shaped his personality, created the withdrawn Oswald that we've all heard about in Oswald's youth, because it's not withdrawn when we of Oswald that we know is Oswald, right, but we keep hearing these stories. He's withdrawn, doesn't have any friends. And I think a huge part of that is because of the mastoid ectomy and the fact that he couldn't hear, he had trouble hearing in the left ear, and this kind I believe that would shape anyone's personality.

Speaker 1

Let me let me push back on this. And so, Mom, if you're watching, we're talking about an Oswald who was not the Oswald that we know who has arrested the weekend of the assassination. Is that correct, Corey, that's correct.

Speaker 2

The Oswald who was arrested that weekend is missing numerous scars that he would have.

Speaker 1

But I will say, just you know, put it out there. Do you remember that midnight press conference and he has to he has to go to the guy, sir to repeat, but you have been charged with that, and it just makes me think like, oh, maybe that's his left ear, like he can't hear and he has to lean in and said, sir, I mean it's it's a straw man's argument.

Speaker 2

That Well, I would say that is not the case because that man who was autopsy didn't have the masterodectomy scar. So according to Diana Thomas, she found that Robert Oswald had the messed outdectomy scar also, which is very weird and definitely needs some further follow up.

Speaker 1

Wow, and we'll touch more on Robert Oswald in a little bit. So who do you think is uh? Who do you think is the puppet man? This is a speculation, I guess, but maybe not because there is a name that you and I both talked about. Who do you think is the puppet master here? Let's say it is naval intelligence. Let's say it is the navy. Is there a gentleman who comes to mind that maybe having something to do with pulling these strings?

Speaker 2

One hundred percent Fred Corth. So, Fred Corth is one hundred percent clearly in on this deception, because, first of all, Fred Corth is I forget his position before he was Secretary of Navy, but it had something to do with he was some sort of liaison to the army. And after that he will go on to be the Secretary of the Navy. What is that prior to John Connolly? I think it's prior to John Connolly, and then after

John Connolly, I forget who's after that. But he's a big shot and he's a major player, and he's tied into all the upper level stuff. And in nineteen what was it forty eight, he is the lawyer for Edwin ek Dahl, who Edwin Ekdahll. So he marries Marguerite. This is the whole Edwin Ecdall thing. Is kind of interesting because he was an older guy. He'd had a heart attack,

he was kind of lonely. He met Marguerite. She wasn't really into it, but she met with Edwin Ekdahl's sister and she kind of convinced her to marry him, kind of like, oh, he's probably not got much time left. Just make an old man happy kind of thing. He was like twenty years older than she was, and so, but he worked for a company called Ebasco, which was an electric company, and they had been they had built electric power plants in the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

What does that tell you? And that's an intelligence connection. You're not You're not going to Soviet Union to build power plants without the without the go ahead of the CIA. Right, So clearly there's an intelligence connection to Ebasco. After he died, the FBI attempted to get documents on him from EBASCO, and IBASCO straight up said no, sorry, not happening, which means that there's a something there which is higher authority than the FBI in its entirety, you know, protecting Edwin Ekdahl.

So they end up getting married and it's never really it doesn't seem like it's a real marriage. They don't really live, they don't live together. They don't really like each She doesn't seem like they like each other. He is living in at the Ewing Street address. This is another place where it gets weird. He's living at Ewing Street and he's got some other roommate while she's living

at another address. And despite the fact that they're having like some sort of marital trouble, she believes she caught him having an affair. She ends up living with Edwin et Dahl and John Pick and Robert Oswald and Lee Oswald at Ewing Street until March of nineteen forty eight, and then from there they'll go to the thirty three hundred Willing Street, which was like a really it was kind of slummy. John Pick said that when they got there, he said that we were back down in the lower

class again. It was a really it was a very hard emotional thing for all of them to deal with. It was very hard for them to move back into the ghetto. And for Lee Oswald, Edwin Ekdahl was the only father figure he really ever knew, and so it was very hard on Oswald the divorce because he was very young and they were all together like two or three years, but it was the only time that he had a father figure, right, So that was a whole

a very very rough time for Oswald and the whole family. Now, the problem that we have here is that the divorce happened in July forty eight, and that the official story says that Marguerite Oswald and the family she will buy a property at one oh one San Saba in Benbrook

in like a brand new development. It's the only house built in the area, and then they'll move and they'll live at this property in Benbrook for about two or three months, only two or three months until school started again in September of forty eight, and then they moved out of there again when Robert and John Pick went back to school. So that's the official story, and we have testimony to that from John Pick, we have testimony to that from Robert Oswald, from testimony to that from

Marguerite Oswald. But the problem is when you John Armstrong did a phenomenal job pulling all the history on that address at one on one San Saba, and he found that Marguerite Ekdahl, the name on the records, actually had purchased that property in July of nineteen forty seven, not forty eight forty seven. So that's very problematic for the official story, which says that she didn't buy it for a year later. And so John Armstrong goes and this

is where John Armstrong really shines. This is where he did his absolute for most phenomenal work. He went and he talked to Georgia Bell and Otis Carlton, who were allegedly neighbors of the Oswalds out at Benbrook and so when you read their statements, it's clear the FBI altered their statements. And John Armstrong when he spoke to them, basically he got the same story from Otis Carlton and Georgia Bell, and that was that the Oswalds, and it was just Marguerite and Lee. It was no John Pick

or no other kids. Moved in there around May of nineteen forty seven and lived there until Thanksgiving of nineteen forty seven. She also said that the Marguerite Oswald who lived in that house in nineteen forty seven did not have a car, and she did not work at a retail store, which is what the official story is. And we have we can prove that she worked for retail

in forty eight. We can prove this. But in nineteen forty seven, according to Georgia Bell, this woman was a nurse and at another time she had to have a neighbor drive her over to a house next to Stripling Junior High School where she had to pick up her nurse's uniform. Okay, this is nineteen forty seven, This is one year before the Oswalds actually officially lived there. Right,

So what do we have. We have a Marguerite Oswald, who doesn't drive, doesn't have a car, is a nurse, is short and fat, right and so, and then she moved out by Thanksgiving. The issue is, we don't have any contacts between Georgia Bell and Otis Carlton with the real Marguerite Oswald and her kids in the two or three months that they lived there from July, you know,

to September of nineteen forty eight. When you look at the testimony of Georgia Bell and Otis Carlton, they didn't know anybody else living there in that house because Otis Carlton ended up buying that house, and so they are unaware of another set of people ever having lived in that damn house. So what does that tell me? That tells me that when the Oswalds went back to Benbrook in July of forty eight, number one, it was the

real Marguerite, the real Lee and his brothers. It was not the Marguerite and Lee who were living there in forty seven. And they didn't go to one O one San Saba. They went to some other address in the area. Because even when John Picked testified and they asked him to talk about that time, and he's talking about it Albert Jenner says, was that one O one San Saba and John Pickos. I don't know nothing about one on one San Saba, Right, So what are we yelling here?

What is happening here? We've got more of this overlap with witnesses, solid testimony on both sides. We can firmly establish what everyone is saying here. And the only answer is that there were two sets of Marguerite and Lee. That's it. It's the only solution. And this is one of literally one hundred incidents when you follow the life of Oswald like, it's not like the pattern is different

and changing and indicating different types of things. No, the pattern is always Oswald in two places at once, always, and then sometimes three places at once. When we get to like fifty five to fifty eight, So people might.

Speaker 1

Be saying, geez, Corey, so many addresses, come on, relax, I mean, give me a break already, but we're going to double down. Tell me about to to zero Thomas Place.

Speaker 2

Right, so tujuous THEREA Thomas Place is the place where the Marguerite Oswald that we know who. I'll get to her real identity later on. I believe I know who that is. Well, she was living at tou Chi Cho zero Thomas Place at the time of the assassination. Okay, it is also like, I can't imagine can you imagine another scenario where Marguerite Oswald was driven to get her nurse's uniform at a house next to Stripling Junior High,

But it's a different house. I don't think so. So odds are any cop in the world would would deduce that the house that they were driven to she was driven to in forty seven to get her nurse's uniform when she was living at one on one San Saba is to to Choo zero Thomas Place, and that would indicate that there's a connection to this house from nineteen forty seven at the earliest, all the way to nineteen sixty three under two different owners. Edna Pendleton and Mary

McCarthy are the two owners. So Mary McCarthy turns out close personal friend of Fred Korth, the man who handled the divorce from Edwin Necdahl from Marguerite Oswald. This is fascinating because it's the real Marguerite Oswald who got the divorce from Edwin neck Doahll. So Fred Corth knew every intimate detail about the family, about Oswald and his brothers, the living situation, the money situation, like he had to, because that's what you do in divorce proceedings. You get

to know everything. And then we have Then we have the other Marguerite, the false Marguerite who was acting as a caretaker for Harvey Oswald.

Speaker 1

We have.

Speaker 2

Her popping up at that address sometime in nineteen fifty four. And that's a whole nother story we'll have to seg into. But what we do is we have Marguerite Oswald, the real Marguerite Oswald divorce from Edwin Acdall. Fred corth is the lawyer. But also this house will be rented to the false Marguerite in the future, in nineteen fifty four and again in nineteen sixty three. And it's the false Margarite who's conected to this residence in nineteen forty seven,

a year before Marguerite got divorced from Edwin Acdahll. So what was fred Court's in this house in nineteen forty seven, if there was one, right, we don't know. We don't know the relationship between Edna Pendleton and anybody else. So I did, trust me, we did a full genealogy and background on her. We got nothing, So it's very interest. We don't know, we don't know, but it's very strange

that one address nobody rents up. Nobody rents a house from like two different owners, unless it's like the owner transferred it back to back while you're living there, right, then that's But if you rent a house and then you go back ten years later to rent a house and it's a different owner, why are you get in the same place in the first place, right, None of the story makes any sense, And why would you be attached to it for se for like fifteen years plus,

you know. So, yeah, there's something going on with that residence and Fred Korth, And that brings me back to this idea that there has to be some sort of covert real estate network at play here, which would also connect to the house that Robert Oswald lived at on Davenport,

which actually appears in the story years before Oswald. Robert Oswald ever buys the damn thing, right, So that gets us into like the whole nineteen fifty four to nineteen fifty six couple of years, which is the craziest couple of years as far as the two Oswald stuff goes because none of it makes any sense at all. Everyone's lying, And if there was nothing to it, why is everybody lying? Right, if there's nothing to any of this, why is everyone lying?

Speaker 1

We'll get to that, just to close the circle on Fred Corth. Now, Marguerite claims that Oswald's discharge I believe was handled by Fred Corth number one and number two. Marguerite names Fred Corth as involved in the framing of Oswalt and the assassination well of the president. And I would even say of Oswalt, you know, couples a few assassinations that we can who which Marguerite is claiming that.

Speaker 2

That's the false Marguerite, because the real Marguerite. This is the thing, like when you go over the records, you've come to realize that all of Oswald's official story addresses are the are the real Oswald and the real Marguerite.

But that changes in nineteen fifty six, which tells me in nineteen fifty six, when Oswald goes off to the Marines, that's when they're supposed to do the official swapperou with the families, and Marguerite Oswald should be off doing something else with a different name or something, but that's not

what ends up happening. So Oswald, the real Lee Oswald, will end up going to Hawaii on his way to Atsugi, Japan August nineteen fifty seven, he will send a postcard to He sends it to thirty thirty eight West sixth but I think it's actually just a thirty eight thirty. But it ended up making it through because the post office is kind of smart sometimes, and so we're not supposed to have that address period. That address is not supposed to be the official address of Marguerite Oswald at all.

She's living. God, I forget what you addressed you was at Again, from this time period in fifty six through the end of fifty seven we have more obfuscation because we have the real Marguerite purchasing a house at two thousand and six what is it Birchwood or Birchman or something like that, which doesn't appear in the record. You

shouldn't appear in the record anywhere. And then so it gets really complicated when you get into fifty six because in fifty six you have Oswald's working in all right, well, actually, if we're gonna start this, we're gonna talk about this, we have to start at fifty four, So we're gonna start at fifty four. We kind of have to start it. We have to go through all the New York stuff too, so let's back up a little bit.

Speaker 1

So my next question then would be how much did oswd how much did Oswalt's Oswalds in New York blow your mind?

Speaker 2

That's when stuff really starts to go off the deep end in the fall of forty two. So you have Marguerite Oswald sells the Birchman property in late August of fifty two, and then she goes to New York with Lee and they live at John Picks off a ninety second Street. But we have some contradiction here already, because we have some people saying that she stayed with John Pick for a month. John Pick's mother in law said that they stayed there for closer to a year, which

I can't fit into any timeframe at all. Well, maybe I could, but then that mean everyone's lying, including John Pick, and I don't buy the John Picks a lie at all. Yeah, So allegedly they get up there and it's late nineteen fifty two, and then we run into some problems with when Oswald left there where he actually went after there, because we have both John Pick and Robert Oswald saying that they went to school. He went, they got another place in Manhattan and went to school in Manhattan at

PS forty four. Well, I could never find a PS forty four in Manhattan at all. It's three of them. None of them were in Manhattan, So I don't even know what that's about. But everyone was pretty sure that Oswald went and lived in Manhattan. But the official story says they went up in the off at Sheridan for a couple of weeks fourteen fifty five Sheridan, and then they went to the one hundred and seventy ninth Street address in the Bronx, right, and so this is the

one hundred and seventy ninth Street. The Bronx address would correspond with the time that Oswald went to the Trinity School, the Lutheran school, and so okay, So Margareton, she claims the family's all Lutherans, but they never went to church. So what's the deal with the Lutherans? Why are they all Lutheran if nobody ever goes to church. I don't get it. There's something there. But as it turns out, and thank you to Diana Thomas again for discovering this,

that Oswald never actually went to Trinity. Everyone thinks he did. The FBI has records it said he did, but he never showed up. John Hannah, who was a pastor there, years later he knew Lawrence Wench, who was the principal at the time, and he told him the full story. He's like, look, Oswald, his mother came and showed up, paid the twenty five cent registration, and then Oswald never

showed up at the school. Right, So here we have this big gap in August, late August, September through early October ish at the Trinity where we where John Picks said that Oswald was going to school in Manhattan. Okay, so we possibly have that explanation there that he was actually in Manhattan, not at the Trinity school because he never went to Trinity. Then after Trinity, he allegedly goes to PS one seventeen. But at PS one seventeen that's

where and we know this is Harvey Oswald. He starts to be a truant and he never goes to school. And right, so the weird thing is he misses most of the damn year, but he still somehow passes the year. I don't understand this, Like this doesn't make any sense. Then we start to run into some major, major problems because of Oswald's truancy. So now picture this in my head. You have Lee Oswald going to school somewhere in Manhattan, and he's going to school, he's a positive attendance record.

You have Harvey Oswald up in the Bronx at one hundred and seventy ninth, allegedly going to PS one seventeen, but he never goes, gets in trouble, ends up getting picked up. So Oswald's arrest is all over the place. The official story says he was arrested from his apartment on the sixteenth of April. However, we have the documents from the court record showing Magistrate Delaney sent him to youth house on April fifteenth, the day before. We have

no explanation to this whatsoever. Then, when you get into the statements made by it wasn't Realnada's Heartogs, it was the other guy I can't recall his name offhand, The first counselor that Oswald allegedly saw when he went to youth house. He swears that Oswald was there March twenty seventh, the last Saturday in March, because and he was positive, because he was packing up all his stuff and moving because he had quit working for the State of New York.

That was his last week and that was the last day that he was there. So he's confident the date was March twenty seventh. So we have three contradictory records, and we have Marguerite Oswald said in A Woman in History that she was in the court she had brought Oswald to the courtroom, and then Oswald was taken from the courtroom, right he was arrested there and taken from the courtroom. Well, how does that jive with Oswald being arrested at his apartment on April sixteenth, which we have

the arrest card. The arrest card is in my book. There were newspaper articles published about policewoman Felicia Spritzer, who was allegedly some famous policewoman who went and was part of the unit that made that arrest. I have the newspaper article in there. None of that jives with the statements of Marguerite Oswald who said Oswald was taken from her in court, and none of that jives with anyone having ever met with Oh it is Milton Currion was

the psychologist. None of that jives with Milton Curion statement that he met with Oswald on the twenty seventh. This is all kinds of jacked up. And then when you get into actual of the records of like where Oswald was during the period of time that he was supposed to be at youth House and whatnot, there's all kinds of contradictions. There's like memos about him doing well at PS six eleven, which PS six eleven was a school

for the hearing impaired, which is weird. And then you see other mentions in the school record that Oswald had the mascuoidectom me in forty six and that he had a loss of hearing. It's the only document in the world you'll ever find anything about Oswald having a loss of hearing. And so, yeah, so the whole entire New York thing is crazy. And so then this is one thing I think is great. Marguerite will get a lawyer

because she's like, this is on this is the Waltz. Margerite, she gets a lawyer, his name is Edward Budle, and she basically tells him, look, I got something's going on. What do we do here? He looks at the record and he goes, look, they're trying to lock your kid up. You better get him out of town as quick as possible. Okay. And I think that's exactly what they did. And this is where the entire controversy over South Dakota comes into the story. And I one hundred percent believe Oswald went

to South Dakota. But there are some interesting anomalies in this story. So Oswald he will tell Aileen when he's in the Soviet Union that he discovered dust copy tell the book in the library in South Dakota. Okay. We have the statements of al McCole and her son, Oh what was his name, I don't recall his name offhand, but they basically she sent a letter to Lyndon Johnson said, hey, my son knew Oswald back here in nineteen fifty three

during the summer. And so there's multiple data points that would indicate one hundred percent Oswald went to South Dakota.

Speaker 1

William Henry Timmer Timmer, Yes.

Speaker 2

Timmer, and so Timmer Timmer's story is interesting because Timmer will end up saying to the FBI that Oswald told him he came from New York and that he was in gangs in New York and he fought in street fights in New York and that I don't remember if you told him that he drove or he told me something he had a car or something along those lines. And that's when he starts to talk about communism and dust Capital. And this is in the summer of fifty three.

This is an anomalous event because we don't have any other references to Oswald and communism until fifty eight, when you get into the Palmer McBride stuff, and then really you don't get any any inkling whatsoever that Oswald has any interest in the Soviet Union or speaking Russian until March of nineteen fifty nine. So we have an event here almost six years prior to the first confirmable you know, I say confirmable, because the Palmer McBride stuff is more hearsay.

But the first confirmable times that Oswald's trying to speak

Russian is in March of fifty nine. And so I've had a lot of revelations lately over Oswald and is speaking Russian, and the possibility that he did go to the Monterey Institute for Language, which I'm honestly starting to become more and moral believer of one hundred percent, I'm at ninety percent, i'd say, because I've been trying to figure out for Oswald spoke Russian at all, And it seems like when he went to the Soviet Union he didn't speak an Russian when he went there, well, not

publicly to his friends. He spoke English to people who we don't know who he spoke English to. Right, something's up with Russia. And I'm gonna get to Russia when I finished this book. But he from what I hear,

he didn't speak Russian when he gets over there. And we have some contradictory information about a woman who went out Rosalie I forget her name, Roslin Quinn roslind Quinn goes out on a date with Oswald while he's in the Marines, and she tells this is funny because she tells the FBI that he spoke fluent Russian like he was good. But she had also gone on a date with a guy named John Donovan who was Oswald's like supervisor, and she told Donovan that he barely spoke Russian at all. Okay,

then you get into Rosalind Quinn. Turns out she was a flight stewardess, just like Marilyn Mourette was, you know, flying all these weird countries. So so Rosalind Quinn most likely a spook, right, and so you really can't trust

her word in the official story. So we have all this contradiction over when Oswald actually spoke Russian, and from going through those statements of other marines, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that he didn't speak any Russian at all until March of fifty nine, when he's then seen with a Russian he's listening to Russian records like how to speak Russian records, and he's going through a Russian dictionary and the Russian newspapers he's getting he's looking

up how to read them by looking up words in the Russian dictionary. So what is my current working thesis. There's this weird period between January and mid March of fifty nine when he gets back from Matsugi, he goes home for a little bit on break, comes back, and then he's doing this weird stuff that we're really not sure what he was doing. He went to San Francisco for something where the Monterey Institute is okay, but he allegedly it was from some sort of large scale drills.

He also goes to Yuma, Arizona, and he spends about three weeks in Yuma, Arizona. So we don't really know what's going on here. But this is when he takes the Russian tests, so to me, and what is he barely passed it. He only got two words more right than wrong or something like that. Right, So he wasn't that good at Russian speaker when he took the test. What does that tell me? They probably did send him to Monterey Russian class at that time at the Speaking Institute.

Immediately after that is when he's seen translating the Russian from the records with the dictionary right. Then he goes on the date with Rosalind Quinn where she tells Donovan that he doesn't speak good Russian at all. Then he goes to Russia where he doesn't speak Russian, and he probably learned the Russian that he did know in the

Soviet Union working with Marina. That's probably where he actually did so I'm feeling much better about the fact that he actually did do a shotgun course, learned basic Russian, and then the rest of it came when he was over there. That's what I'm kind of putting together now, And so Corey, forget what we're going with that, but go ahead.

Speaker 1

But I have to question the Dakota story because the documents say he didn't go to Dakota. He went to New Orleans.

Speaker 2

Right, That's an interesting one because the documents Rosalin not

Roslin Quinn. Aileen Mosby turns over her notes from the Oswald meeting to the FBI, and despite the fact that she published in the newspaper that it said that he went to North Dakota or South Dakota or was it North Dakota, it was one of the dakotas Stanley, North Dakota, North Dakota, Okay, So even though she printed that, when the FBI turned the notes over to the Warrant Commission, her notes now said when he went back to New Orleans,

the same quote, but they changed North Dakota to New Orleans. So yeah, it's why would they do that? Well, obviously they're trying to hide the fact he went to North Dakota. And why would they hide the fact that they went to North Dakota. Well, because we have school records showing he was still in New York where he ended up. He ends up leaving New York January ninth or tenth,

fifty four. And from there this brings us to the next chapter, which if I had a million dollars, I'd put a million dollar reward out right now for any person on planet Earth who can tell me where Lee Harvey Oswald was living between January and May of nineteen fifty four. Nobody can tell me because the story that we have is contradictory. Okay, So this is where it really gets for me. This is where I lost my marbles.

This is where it really gets good as far as this was a good opportunity for further investigative research, right, especially when we get to like when Oswald goes back to Fort Worth. So January of fifty four, Oswald leaves New York, goes to New Orleans and is attending Borgard Junior High School. We have the records showing he attended

classes from January all the way onward. We don't know where Oswald's living, and I'll tell you why because Oswald and his mother will not move into fourteen fifty four Saint Mary until May the end of May of nineteen fifty four. It is also at the end of May nineteen fifty four that a letter is sent from Marguerite Oswald to John Pick, where she says, Hey, we just got back to New Orleans. Really, I thought you were supposed to be there since January. But it's May and

you're just now writing to John Pick. Myrtle Evans, who's a longtime friend of hers, completely in on this scheme, gives testimony and says that she thought that when Marguerite came back to New Orleans, she had come from either San Antonio or Fort Worth. Okay, I one hundred percent believe this. I don't think it's Fort Worth. I think it is San Antonio because I've seen two or three other references miscellaneous references to San Antonio that I can't

fit into any narrative whatsoever. Something was going on in San Antonio. John Pick was not living there at that time. It was years later he would live in San Antonio. So I don't know what to deal with San Antonio is. But nonetheless, we don't know where Oswald and his mother are until they move into fourteen fifty four Saint Mary at the end of May. Now here's the problem with this.

The school record showing Oswald starts in January. Hebrew friends a woman at Borguard Junior High School named Myra drus LaRue. She is a woman's pe teacher, but she is has a homeroom, and that homeroom is in the basement of the school on the stage right, and so homeroom you go and you check in and they make sure you're there for the day, and then you go off to

your first class. Starting in that semester in January, she had a student in her homeroom named Lee Harvey Oswald who she would see hanging around the library after class, and she just happened to befriend him, and he made it a very specific point that he wanted to be called Harvey Oswald. He didn't go by Lee, he went by Harvey, and so everyone knew him as Harvey Oswald. She tells a story about how one day a piano fell on Harvey and Edvi Bell is a student at Boredguard.

Edvi Bell is the one who came and got her and then they helped Harvey yep, and she ended up driving him home from school that day. And this member this is early nineteen fifty four. This is in that first semester of fifty four. She drives him home to one twenty six Exchange Place. She called it Exchange Alley,

which is what it had been. But this is absolutely unbelievably important because Oswald and his mother are not supposed to have moved into one twenty six Exchange Place until June of nineteen fifty five, more than a year later. They're not supposed to be at one twenty six Exchange Place. So this is where you get some really really crazy overlap. And I think, and it's in the book, I kind

of deduced where everybody was at what time. So you have Marguerite and his mother, I'm sorry, Margaret Elle and his mother are living at fourteen fifty four Saint Mary, allegedly right until June or July of fifty five. But we start to get letters from Margaree to John Pick in October of fifty four with the address one twenty six Exchange Place. Okay, everybody and their mother testified that they didn't move into one twenty six Exchange Place. Until

summer fifty five. But we start to have letters sent to John Pick from his real mother, the real Marguerite in October, and we have a letter in October, and we have a letter in November from exchange place. But the official story says that they're at one four five four Saint Mary until the summer. Okay, this is when we start to have the appearances of It took me a long time to figure this out, and even John

Armstrong didn't figure this out. And John Armstrong actually did some incredible investigative work that he ended up discarding that he shouldn't have discarded. So you have Oswald now suddenly appears in Fort Worth at Stripling Junior High School in October, ish October, November of nineteen fifty four. Okay, this is at a time when Oswald is clearly registered and going to school in Boreguard. So what do we have. Harvey Oswald is going to Beauregard January for that first semester.

End that semester close to October, he ends up leaving and going to Fort Worth, and the real Lee Harvey Oswald ends up taking his place at Bouregard. This is crazy to me. Did people just not notice. Oh my god, Oswald looked so much different. Maybe they banked on like over the summer, how kids grow. Maybe they thought that would be enough change for them to be able to swap them out. Well they did, and the one person

who remained friends with Lee Oswald is Edva Bell. Edva Bell was there when Oswald got into the fight with Johnny Nwmeyer and had his front tooth knocked out, testified to Warren Commission. Oswald had his tooth knocked out, you know Oswald when he had the autopsy done and they dug him up. He didn't have a false tooth. Okay, So we have some shenanigans there. But Edva Bell, I think clearly obviously knew both Harvey and Lee. And then

Edva Bell will join the Civil Air Patrol. He will bring the real Lee Oswald into the Civil l Patrol of July twenty seventh of what is that what years fifty five? Fifty five, yeah, fifty five, right after he graduates from Bourreguard. So we have all this stuff going

on in New Orleans. However, simultaneously after Oswald is seen and confirmed by Frank Goodlady, who's the assistant principal who met with John Armstrong confirmed Oswald was at Stripling in that fifty four to fifty five school year for approximately six weeks. So now we have another Oswald in two places at once, this time one in Fort Worth, the other one in New Orleans. It is around this time

we will run into a problem. We will run into an issue where we have a Lee Harvey Oswald and his mother, Marguerite Oswald, are now working at Dolly Shoe store, okay, for Mary Goodman. The problem is that Oswald can't be working at Dolly Shoe and going to Borgar at the same time. It's too much of a problem there, okay.

And so we also have the testimony of Tommy Brown and Randall Reeves and a couple other guys in Fort Worth who will tell John Armstrong that they knew and went to school with Lee Harvey Oswald at Moniggue Junior High School where they all graduated that June of fifty five. Okay, Now, this is kind of out of left field, and even John Armstrong disregarded this information. The reason he shouldn't have disregarded this information is because I one hundred percent believe it.

And the reason I believe it is because Tommy Brown, who was one of the guys who knew Oswald at Monig, he gave a very explicit description on where Oswald was living on Davenport, a bunch of streets over from I think it was Exeter, a bunch of houses over from Exeter. And so the issue with this is that Tommy Brown should never have known about that house because that house, dollars to donuts, will be the house that Robert Oswald

will move into on Davenport. What is it seventy thirty seven seventeen or seventy three thirteen Davenport, one of those. But the problem is that this is we're talking June of fifty five. Robert Oswald will not buy or move into that house for two more years. Okay, this brought this in my research, brought me back to the whole covert real estate network when I dug into the documents

from Armstrong. Turns out the guy who owned the house at the time was a guy named Joseph Summerfeld who was like a lifelong high level freemason involved with the Scottish Right and all that stuff, which made my bells go off back to guy Banister and all this stuff, and how many other unexplained things do we have? You know, loving enterprises who owned one twenty six exchange place. They were obviously in on some shenanigans. I couldn't link any

of them to any of these other people. But to me, to see the Scottish right pop up a second time in the life of Oswald was too creepy. And that's kind of what spawned all my freemason research that I'm doing. But we have major contradictions in where Oswald was again for this entire period January fifty four all the way through here June of fifty five, clearly in two places at once, and so it's it's it's go ahead.

Speaker 1

Did John Armstrong ever track down.

Speaker 2

Edva Bell, No, he was dead. He died at thirty one. So Edward Bill died of a pulmonary embolism. His father told John Armstrong that he was healthy one day and dead the next, and his father was adamant that it had something to do with the Oswald case.

Speaker 1

So whose duplicity keeps you up at night? You write that in the book you remember you need me to you will be.

Speaker 2

Heah, give me a hint. I probably said that a bunch of people.

Speaker 1

How deep into the deception was Robert Oswald?

Speaker 2

So Robert Oswald. The thing about Robert Oswald is he is he was clearly in on this from a very young age, because, like I said, he said that they were out in Benbrook, Exus and forty six, you know, and we have the statements going back to forty five of them up in Boston. To me, it's a parent that he knew what was going on all the way back then. He didn't have much of a choice. If he's at Benbrook, but the real Oswald is in Covington, then we can say with certainty he was with the

false Marguerie. Well, honestly, I think this guy's a brother. And I'll say why I think this guy is a brother? Why this Harvey Oswald? Which Harvey Oswald and Harvey Oswald? Okay, I think instead of there being four, instead of there being three brothers, John Pick, Robert Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald, I think there's four brothers. And I think that and I believe this because of what was said to Milton Curian by Harvey Oswald. So March twenty seventh, when Oswald

is not supposed to be at youth house. Yet Milton Curian meets with him. During this meeting, he will tell him he oh, and he describes Oswald as having been about four foot eight, gaunt, skinny little kid, whereas we have the school records of the really Oswald said he was five at four one hundred and thirty pounds, you know, so a totally different, you know, sized build of a person. Harvey Oswald identified himself to Milton Curion as Harvey Oswald.

He said, my name is Harvey. This is like the third or fourth what I call real time usage of the name. And so what he tells Milton Currian is that when they would get into a new area, a new community, and this is a quote, knowing that he Harvey would ditch school and not go to school, his brother would go in his stead, which made it increasingly difficult for him to attend school. Okay, what brother are we talking about? Robert Oswald's five and a half years

older than Oswald. No possibility at all a sixteen year old could go to school for an eleven year old and get away with it. Ever, so what brother is he talking about? Obviously he's talking about the brother that could get away with it Lee Oswald. Right. John Armstrong had a theory that Harvey Oswald kept going to school and then dropping out because he couldn't get the records transferred like Lee Harvey like the Really Oswald had a steady stream of the same records going from school to school.

But Harvey Oswald had to keep dropping out of school because he would go for a time, the records would never show up. They'd say, hey, your record's never showed up, and you'd have to leave and go to another school, and he would repeat that process. But that's why I think they're brothers, because of what he said to Milton Curion, combined with the fact that that would explain the overwhelming similarities in appearance, including the little flat crook of the ear,

the hairline, a whole lot of stuff. Right, So that's why I'm convinced that their brothers. But where were we taking that?

Speaker 1

And yet and yet it's Robert who has the dual scar on the back of the year.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm convinced that Robert Oswald impersonatedly at some point in his life. This is another thing I think is kind of weird. So it's apparent that Robert Oswald, Robert Oswald Senior. Nobody knew him as Robert. Everyone called him Lee. When you reach the Warreant Commission, this is Lee's father, we're talking, yeah, right, So everyone's testimony and Warren Commission they are Lillian. Everyone who knew him they called him Lee.

Robert Oswald is born, same exact name. From what I gather, he was called Lee also all the way up until the time that Lee Harvey Oswald was born. So here's an interesting story at the Bethlehem Orphanage. One of the teachers. I don't know if I included this in the book or not. One of the teachers at the Bethlehem Orphanage, when the FBI spoke to him, he told them that he very clearly remembered Lee, and he remembered John Pick,

but he had no recollection of Robert at all. And I think the reason for that is because Robert was going by the name Lee, and I think that that ended up changing at some point in time. There is much later after the assassinate there's I forget. This is

a story that was related to me. A reporter was with Robert Oswald in his house and was flipping through some books that he had on his bookshelf, and she opened one up and it was inscribed to Lee in the book, and she asked him about it, and Robert Oswald told her, Oh, he must have lent it to Lee at some point in time. But I don't believe that at all. I believe he went by Lee for a period of time in his life, and that book was given to him when he was went by Lee,

and that makes more sense than anything. What doesn't. What I don't get is that, to me, would cause some sort of existential friction. If my dad's name is Joe, and I'm Joe Junior my whole life, and then all of a sudden I have a brother and now he's Joe and I got to go back to my other name, I would think there's some kind of resentment there, right

when that calls some kind of family friction. If all of a sudden your name is stripped from you and given your little brother like that would be a major problem. I don't understand how that fits into the g Greater story, but to me, it feels like there's some major significance there.

Speaker 1

You know, So Roberts is blatantly off skating line his.

Speaker 2

Warrant testimony, right Yeah, So he gets out of the Marines in July fifty five. In fifty three, he'll go to Korea. No, in fifty three, he goes down to Miami and then he comes. Yeah, he goes to Miami first, and then he goes to Korea after Miami. In January of nineteen fifty four, and this is in the book, he starts to testify to the Warrant Commission that he visited his family in New Orleans in January fifty four

and that he stayed with them at their place. They're not supposed to have a place in New Orleans and January fifty four, because it's not until like the tenth or that second or third week they get to New Orleans. Then they stay allegedly with Lillian Mourett for a couple of weeks, and then then the story goes haywire. But we don't know where le Oswald and his mother are

in January fifty four. And then right as Robert is about to be asked about that, Dulles cuts him off and says, let's take a five minute break before he can say, because where did he stay with him? Where did he stay? Tell us where did he stay? Then when they asked the same question to Lillian Morett, she gives a story about Robert coming and taking them all over to exchange place. But that's not until July of fifty five, when Robert gets out of the Marines. So

what was going on here? Where did they stay in January fifty four? Why is everyone lying about it? How does Dulles even know about it? To cut them off? You see what I'm saying, Like, this is a cluster. This is a cluster, And I'm telling you the reality is we don't know where Lee and his mother were from January to May at all. Million dollar reward if anyone can tell me, I don't have a million bucks. But you know what I'm saying. Do you think do you think?

Speaker 1

So? Tell me about why Robert Oswald was in Miami.

Speaker 2

He was stationed at the secret CIA base at Opa Laca, the base that they overthrew Our Bends and guatem Mala, and the base that they ended up launching and running Operation Mongoose out of. Now this is in fifty three, This is long before any of that stuff. But at the time, Howard Howard Hunt was stationed out there, and like this is the beginning of the way I see at that time period was kind of the beginning of them starting to focus on on the Caribbean in the

Middle and like the Central America. Like this is when that stuff was kind of building up.

Speaker 1

Dulles certainly would have known Pbe's success and Oswald and what was.

Speaker 2

Going on in Miami when oh yeah.

Speaker 1

He was getting speaking about that in his testimony.

Speaker 2

Right, So I don't. I see. That's another thing. I really want to more understand the role of Robert Oswald in this thing. How old was he when he got pulled into this. I just some of these questions I don't have answers to, and they and they're really I mean, I think we need to know what Robert Oswald was up to. I mean, I'm hoping that maybe one of his kids will spill the beans and like maybe they

told him. I don't know, See, I don't. It's really frustrating when you see people who are obviously in on it, obviously lying, and now they're dead. What are we supposed to do with that?

Speaker 1

You know? Yeah, I know. And clock sticking, I mean, you know this, You're you're kind of watching this whole era fade away as you're trying to get a sense of it, and it's just correct through your fingers.

Speaker 2

Correct. Correct. So Robert Oswald, fortunately I pulled up I got a subscription to search military records, and I verified his military history. There's nothing out of place. Everywhere they said he was, he was, you know, he was in Memphis, he was in all the places that he was supposed

to be. He went to Korea, like I checked his I checked the diaries, and there's nothing unusual about his time in the Marines unless they did some of that you know, obfuscation stuff, because like anyone who did any radar operator stuff, whether it was working on their machines or running them or plotting board, any of that stuff, that was all classified. And so everyone who did the radar stuff at Biloxi it doesn't say Biloxi on their on their paperwork, it says they were usually like mc Castco.

Which is casual company, which is like at the station headquarters. They have ways of putting you on paper to where you can go do something else, you know, and that's what they did for everyone involved in the radar stuff. So unless Robert Oswald has some of that stuff tied into with his record, it seems pretty above board. How he got to be picked to go to Opa Laca is I don't know. But there's another guy in the Oswald story who ends up at Opa Laca, a guy

who's in the Marines with Oswald named Well. His name is Alan Robert Feld. And this is a crazy, crazy story about Alan Feld. So the two Oswald things is going on. Oswald ends up going to the Marines October twenty fourth, fifty six. This is where my second book on Oswald starts. He will go to San Diego for basic training and then he goes to Camp Pendleton for individual combat training. While he is at Camp Pendleton, he's

there with a guy named Alan Robert Feld. I can prove Alan Arfeld was there because I have his picture in the in the in the the yearbook. But on all the initial paperwork he's listed as Alexander Alexander d Feld. He's not on there as Alan Arfeld. He's in there

as Alexander Defeld. Well, he had come forward and told the FBI after the assassination that he was with Oswald at Camp Pendleton and then they went to Jacksonville, and then from Jacksonville they both went to Memphis, okay, and that after Memphis he ends up going to the CIA base at Opa Laca. This contradicts the official story which says that Oswald went from Camp Pendleton to Jacksonville, to Biloxi and then to El Toro and then to Atsugi. Right,

So we have this contradiction here. I have pulled all of the Marine diaries for all this stuff. Alexander Feld once he he's on the roster as Alexander D. Feld all the way until he gets to Memphis. Then once he gets to Memphis, he's back as Alan Robert Feld. This directly the Marine diaries completely contradict the Marine yearbook, which has Alan Arfeld's picture and it says his name Alan Rfeld. So, this being a crazy story, what does

John Armstrong do? John Armstrong tries to track this guy down. The Alan r Feld that the FBI tracked down and interviewed is actually not Alan Rfeld. It's Robert allen Feld. And he denied knowing anybody. Why they wasted their time,

I don't even know. So John Armstrong tracks this guy down and he finds Alan r Feld had changed his Social Security number but continued to live in the same exact house that was on the official documentation for where Alan Arfeld lived, and when he met him in person, Alan r Feld denied the whole thing and said, I don't know what you're talking about. Refused to talk to Armstrong. Crazy. Huh crazy. He's not the only person on the Marine

rosters with a different name. I found a couple other people with different names on the roster from what they should be. So I don't know what's going on there. I don't know if they group certain people together because they were involved in intelligence. I'm starting to think that a bunch of these guys get recruited into intelligence and then they're told you have to go join the Marines,

like Kerrie Thornley. I'm convinced Kerry Thornley got recruited in high school from the Voice of Democracy contest out in Whittier, California, and then from there he joins the Marines his junior year of high school, goes to basic training between his junior and senior year.

Speaker 1

You know.

Speaker 2

And so I'm pretty convinced that they'll recruit these kids from families or from whatever. They recruit them, and then going into the Marines is the step one of their official training, you know.

Speaker 1

So all right, how deep into the deception was the other brother, John Pick? And can you tie into We've all had our share of bizarre Thanksgivings, But tell me about Thanksgiving nineteen sixty two.

Speaker 2

Okay, so I'll get that Thanksgiving sixty two, but it needs to be prefaced because John Pick and Oswald were as close as brothers. They were never they never they were half brothers. But that was never a thing in the family that was never. It was never like, hey, this is my half brother. It was like this is my brother. It was just how they grew up together.

It was just how it was. The last time that John Pick will see Lee Harvey Oswald, the real Oswald, will be around August, September, maybe October at the latest, of nineteen fifty three. Okay, right after he moves out of his place in Manhattan, moves to the Bronx, John Pick, when this is another thing I'll get to you here in a second, John Pick will go and visit Oswald in the apartment in the Bronx, and that's the last time he will see Oswald until Thanksgiving of sixty two.

Something I need to point out here. Robert Oswald claims he didn't go to New York to visit them until July of nineteen three, and this is when he will take the picture of Harvey Oswald at the Bronx Zoo. So this is the slam dunk proof that we know he was involved with both Oswald families because he took the real Oswald is his brother. But yet he's the one who took the picture of the Bronx Zoo and the one at the Bronx Zoo was clearly Harvey Oswald.

So the problem that we have is that John Pick testified to the Warrant Commission that Robert Oswald actually visited New York very shortly after Oswald had moved out of the apartment to go to the Bronx. He said, within a month. So he put Robert Oswald's first visit to New York in October or November of fifty three, because all of them together went up to visit Oswald at the apartment and building in the Bronx, including Robert Oswald. Robert Oswald swears that his visit wasn't until July. Why

is Robert Oswald involved in more lies? Why is it important when he visited New York? I don't understand why there's more lying here, but there is. And so John Pick cannot be in on this identity transfer skis. He can't be. He calls out every single every single time there's a contradiction, he calls out the contradiction. So he has shown the picture when he's testifying of Oswald at the Bronx Zoo. He looked at the photograph and he says, Sir, from this picture, I cannot tell you that this is

Lee Harvey Oswald. Well, guess who was able to identify that picture. Milton Curion, the psychologist who only met Oswald one time for a couple hours. He was able to identify that picture at the Bronx Zoo as the kid that he had met with as Lee Harvey Oswald as Harvey Oswald. Actually, he was able to identify that like thirty years later to John Armstrong. So Milton Curion, a guy who met this kid one time, could identify him, but his own brother could not identify him as being

his brother. The photo at the Bronx Zoo is the slam dunk to me proof. And I don't like the word proof because even proof is only ninety nine point nine nine nine is never one hundred percent right. You can have a video of somebody shooting somebody that's not

one hundred percent. There's always something there, right, So as close to proof as you can get is this photograph of the Oswald or Harvey Oswald at the Bronx Zoo that prefaces all the stuff that happened down in New Orleans leading up to the Marines and just kind of emphasizes and kicks off the fact that there were two boys here that were both using the same identity. The one thing that really bothers me about the whole thing, It doesn't seem like this was managed very well at

the time. Why did they use the same freaking name? You know, that had to be operational. If they had just given one of the kids, if they had had given Harvey Oswald a totally fake name until until he was ready to, you know, defect, we wouldn't be having this conversation because there wouldn't be contradictions in the record, you know what I mean. So just the fact that they used the same name screwed them, Like they were so sloppy in everything, is this is the intelligence community

always sloppy? Is this how they operate? I mean, are they just leaven slop everywhere for people to find. I don't know, but it seems to be the case all the way back then. This thing doesn't seem like it was managed as professionally as it should have been, not nearly as well thought out.

Speaker 1

And you make a point that as a law enforcement officer, if you were to make an air, that air doesn't stay in your report. And we're seeing this all over right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so from my experience, and I'm pretty sure this is how it is everywhere. When you write a report, it's your report. You send it to a supervisor. He doesn't have the authority legally to correct your report, even if it's just a missing comma or a period. And I work for an agency that was really really big on grammar. You screwed up your grammar, you got your

report kicked back to you every time. And so yeah, if I put in a wrong name, you know, part of the supervisor's job is to verify the names in the name section against what you put in the report, and if there's even just a spelling error, it gets

kicked back to you. We got about close to one hundred documents that say Harvey the Oswald even in handwriting, right years after the assassination, and when I when I found all these documents from Defense Intelligence Agency, Marine G two NI customs, you name it, it became brutally obvious. Everybody knows. Everybody knew. Everybody who's anybody, including the Warrant Commission, knew that there were two Oswald's. They knew it because

that's what they were protecting. When they're going in there interviewing, why do you think they called in what was their name, Lilian Bootaree? Lillian Bootaree was the daughter of mister and missus Thomas Roach, who lived with Oswald allegedly in forty two at the Congress address. What does that have to do with the assassination? Absolutely nothing. When they called them in,

they called them in to clarify timelines. And why would they could do that because in forty one and forty two is when we're dealing with those major conflicts in Marguerite Oswald's timeline. So they're calling people in and they're asking them about stuff that's got nothing to do with the assassination, because they know all this stuff that I'm telling you, and they're trying to make sure who knows what and when that's what they're doing, Hey, was Oswald

right handed or was he left handed? Why are you asking that? Right? Like, when you finally come to understand that they were well aware of the two Oswald and you go back and you read the testimony, particularly people like Merle and Julian Evans and the woman who lived above them at one twenty six exchange place, it's obvious they knew what the deal was and they're formulating their questions to verify to themselves who knew which Oswald. That's clear.

Like when you start to read some of this stuff, you're like, oh my god, that's exactly what they're doing. They're feeling out who knew which one?

Speaker 1

Paul, you're talking about the actual Warren Commission.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Albert Jenner, Yes, what tells me? Here's what I I'm promising you. There is a secret Warrant Commission report somewhere. We have the official story. I promise you, somewhere there is an unofficial story that talks about all this and how they need to navigate around it. This is how bureaucracy works. When you're dealing with a team of people

who have to keep this thing under wraps. They have to have communications that are beyond top secret, and then they had to Eventually all that stuff needed to be compiled into some sort of preliminary report to let us know, Hey, this is how we're going to shape the narrative based on this, right, So somewhere is a report where they talk about this stuff has to be, has to be because that is how bureaucracy works. So but yeah, all

the everyone knew about it. Maybe Dallas police didn't know, you know, maybe certain people at the FBI didn't know, But when it came down to it, the people at the core of the analysis of this thing, they all knew. I mean, how else are you going to get two different guys with the same name running through the Marines the same time without Marine G two coordination, You're not gonna.

Speaker 1

So the work that the Warrant Commission did, then, you conclude, is less interested in the actual mechanics of the assassination than it is put it getting the timeline right about Oswald.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now do I think that the do I think the Warren Commission knew who pulled the triggers and stuff? Well, they had a lot of the David Ferry stuff. They knew all about David Ferry, and I'm sure they had a lot of the documents of the New Orleans stuff and that all got squashed. Right, they have to be exposed to the information to know

what to squash. And so just like the nine to eleven Commission, just like the Nuremberg trials, just like every other you know, we haven't had the COVID Commission yet. I'm still hoping that comes. But these things are all like they have their answer before they start, and they just have it's about formulating how to get to the where they you know, how do they want to get to their answer?

Speaker 1

Right? So right, it always had to be that guy that window, that building, that rifle, and yeah, that was the objective, right formulate. So when you see the famous photograph of David Ferry and Lee Oswald having a barbecue together, Wow, that who is that?

Speaker 2

That's interesting? That's the really Oswald. And this is kind of fascinating because at this point, and you know, it's the really Oswald. How do we know this? Because Harvey Oswald and his mother, we have the clear path of them leaving one twenty six exchange place in October, going to Tu Serah Thomas Place in Fort Worth, him going to Strippling, and then all the testimony of people who knew him at Monig So this entire time, Harvey Oswald,

he's over in Fort Worth. So it's the really Harvey Oswald who's dealing with David Ferry and ed Via Bell and probably Barry Seal who was in David Ferry's caap in fifty six. So my boy, my boy Jim thinks that Barry Seal might be in that photo. We just don't know which one it is. It's possible because Barry Seal confirmed he was in that group. So but yeah, it's definitely the real Oswald there. And so then what happens after that we get into let me see, we're

in the summer. Then we get into like fall of fifty five, and here we have even more contradiction with the school record because we have Okay, so the official story says that Lee Harvey Oswald will attend Warren east In High School in New Orleans, but he'll only go for like a couple of weeks and then he'll drop out, and then allegedly he's out of school for the rest of that year. But then he starts school again in whereas in Arlington High School in fifty six for like

two months until he goes to the Marines. Well, that doesn't seem right to me at all, doesn't seem right at all. I don't recall what the school records say. But Oswald himself, when he was on the Latin American radio show in WDSU, he says himself he went to Warren Easton High School for over a year. Okay, So, which is funny because the person who said that most certainly didn't go to Warren Easton High School at all, because that's Harvey Oswald and he's over in Fort Worth.

But then when John Armstrong went and talked to guys like Frank de Benedetto at Two Jaigues, he said that Oswald lived in New Orleans and worked for him at two Jagues all the way up until the time he left for the Marines, which we have to assume is

in October of fifty six. But we've got Oswald at Arlington High School in Fort Worth this whole time, right, and so, and then you get the weird statement about him having gone to Warren Easton for over a year, which would makes sense, but it would have been the other Oswald who was there for over a year, which means there is a coordination of stories going on. There's most certainly a coordination of story is going on at

some point. But again, Oswald, on his handwritten biography that he did in the Soviet Union, he said that he was in Fort Worth from fifty four to fifty six. Where does that fall into the story? That negates everything that happens in New Orleans? Right? So what is going on here?

Speaker 1

Right?

Speaker 2

The evidence of two people is just overwhelming. It's just NonStop. It never goes away. If you look at an angle you think is going to be kosher turns out not to be kosher at all. There's something else more to the story. And then when you get to the Marines, there's even some information that might show that Oswald could have possibly joined the Marines and left the Marines in July not October, which that I'm going to cover in the second book. I need to do some more digging.

But yeah, the official story of Oswald and the two Oswald's, it never ends. It never ends. And I don't know what happens in Russia, but it doesn't end all the way throughout his time in the Marine Corps up until September fifty nine, and to me, the most stunning piece of the most stunning piece of the puzzle is the photograph taken at the passport office September tenth, fifty nine in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1

Let me ask, because that's my last question, and then we're gon we're gonna have a few kind of fun questions at the end of here. My last question about this is, so, why was the photograph of Osweald entering the Marines kept secret?

Speaker 2

That's a good question that photograph. When you look at the photograph of Oswald when he joined the Marines, it was taken December of fifty six. I forget the exact day it was December of fifty six, Maybe it's twenty eighth. That is most certainly not the guy arrested on November twenty second, And I think it's obvious from that picture it's not the same guy. There are some pictures where they look very much alike, and there's some pictures where

they look very much different. Yeah, that doesn't look anything like the guy arrested on November twenty second, But you know who it does look like. It looks exactly like the guy who was on the passport photo. And it looks exactly like the guy that Robert Oswald photographed on the Mercer farm when they went squirrel hunting or whatever.

So it's clearly two people the photographic evidence alone, it's all in the chin, like the really Oswald has a very strong, solid, like almost a ball chin, and then the other one has like a wider chin. I mean, it's all over the pictures of Oswald, especially once he's arrested. All the pictures of Oswald once he's arrested and November twenty second, you compare those to those early pictures of Oswald, it is not the same guy. And then well, why are they doing all this? Why are there two Oswalt

in the first place? And I would call this a pre Cold War plot to get a spy in the Soviet.

Speaker 1

Union, pre Cold war plot.

Speaker 2

Yeah, forty one is pre Cold War. Well, I mean, if you want to get super technical, you could start to say that the Cold War began with World War Two. You could start to say that because we were really plotting against the Russians while we're working with them. Of what a bunch of scumbags we are. So but yeah, this is a pre Cold War experimental plot. That's why there's so many holes in it. That's why there's so many contradictions in the documents. This is a ways and

means kind of thing. This is a tradecraft thing that they would go to any length to hide. Everyone knows they do body doubles and stuff, but nobody knows the details, and they don't want the details ever getting out because I have no doubts. Look at half the pictures of Osama bin Laden. That ain't Osama bin Laden, right, Okay, They've used body doubles forever, and I feel like if this were to come out, it would come out on a large scale, and then everyone would draw everything into question.

You know, once you prove the government's using body double stuff, like all of the all the pictures of politicians we look at and go, hey, that's a body double, would suddenly become quite realistic, Like didn't Johnson have a body double? J bird Peck? Didn't he have his cousin sit in for him in a bunch of places?

Speaker 1

Like? You know? And man, that's interesting because there's when Milk here is on the voice recording that Willie Somerset recorded about the you know, there's gonna be a high rise building shot from a high rise building. He mentions how the president has all these body doubles, believe it or not, you know, which is fascinating. And you have a body double that you claim in Ruby's scenario. Yeah, and so an honest investigation would have would have exposed

these incredible holes in this experimental plot. Yeah, yeah, did Garrison? Was he in a was he barking up this tree? Oh?

Speaker 2

Yeah, So Garrison was, yes, because Garrison was going through the documents and he's finding out that everyone's saying Oswald's a different height, like the Oswald that came back from the Soviet Union on the PaperWorks that he was five ft six, which is weird because there's a photo of Marina and Oswald standing on a bridge in the Soviet Union where Oswald is not towering over her like you

should be. If Oswald was five foot nine and she's five foot one, there should be a huge gap there and there isn't, which draws into question what the hell was going on in Russia. I'm anxious to get to Russia because there's Shenanigan's a foot but he was he was convinced that well, he believed the impersonations began in the Marines, and.

Speaker 1

So Rickson believed that.

Speaker 2

Garrison believed that. Yeah, and so this is the most this is the most damning thing. The photograph that you just showed that's Oswald joining the Marines, and that's in December. He's five foot nine inches tall, which is obvious because the ball behind him says five foot nine inches tall. Okay, yeah, exactly exactly five foot nine. When he leaves the Marines in September, his paperwork will say that he's seventy one inches tall, which is five foot eleven. Okay, five foot eleven.

I'm assuming there's another picture like that that they get on the way out the door that we've never seen. Every document of Oswald post has returned from the Soviet Union, and the photographs in everywhere show that he's five foot nine inches tall. What did the guy shrink two inches? I don't think. So this is more evidence of the dual Oswald plot for sure. And this is what Garrison picked up on. And yeah, so there's a there's a

specific document from Garrison. It's titled Heights of the Oswalds, and that's.

Speaker 1

That's in the back in the Yeah, document section of.

Speaker 2

The book Heights of the Oswald's and it's got statements from all kinds of different people who knew Oswald at a different height. So I'm going to say it right now, I will be extremely surprised if the really Harvey Oswald, who's five foot eleven inches tall, I will be very surprised if he appears in Russia at all. Although Eileen Mosby said the Oswald she met with was five foot eleven, which doesn't make sense because the Oswald she met with clearly five foot nine, So why would you say five

foot eleven. I don't know, But.

Speaker 1

What I did see.

Speaker 2

I did see a picture recently of Oswald and the Soviet Union that just struck me as the real Oswald, like the body, the gate, the height, the facial features, the hairline. So I would be shocked if the really Oswald is there. But it seems like if the really Oswald is there and Harvey Oswald is there, we have some major government shenanigans going on, including the Russians.

Speaker 1

If he wasn't there, Lee Oswald, the true Oswald born of that. This is get on right here that we're talking about, right what happened to him?

Speaker 2

The last we know of him in September tenth, nineteen fifty nine. Although this is where we get some more contradiction. There are at least two indicators that Oswald left the Marines in July, not Aber, which doesn't make any sense to me because he would have had to flown back to la to get his photograph taken September tenth at

the passport office. But Robert Oswald initially his initial statements of the FBI, he told them that when Lee got out of the Marines, he came to Fort Worth and stayed with him for four months before he left for Europe and the Soviet Union. Four months. I have that, I have the document, so what is And then we have a document from the guy who handled records at the Marines. When the FBI went to go pull documents, he pulled a document that said that Oswald had left

the Marines in July. So the statement from the guy in the Marine, the sergeant in the Marines who handled the staffing, his statement kind of corresponds with Robert Oswald's initial statement that Oswald had been there for four months before leaving to the Soviet Union. But we how do we account for the September tenth photograph on the passport can't account for that if the July statements are true. So I don't know. All I know is there's obfuscation.

And if you were to make a map of all the obfuscation over Oswald's time in the Marines, it would be NonStop.

Speaker 1

So well, you make the point that the research requires a.

Speaker 2

Timeline, requires so many times you'll be trying to figure something out in a split second. You put it into an actual chronology, things will start to make a whole lot more sense.

Speaker 1

So I hope people if they've stuck with us, and if you haven't, then I have some Easter egg questions for Corey. But if you've stuck with us, then you would know that Corey isn't interested in Mexico City or the typical Oswald material that distracts from what's going on the whole life leading that before we you know, as a child from from the cradle is essential.

Speaker 2

Well, there's some there's some interesting stuff. I'm interested in a couple of things, not obviously not involving Oswald. But to me it's pretty obvious Carrie only was the one who went down to Mexico City and when you start to dig into, like I guess among Oswald's possessions were like flyers for like bullfighting or something like that in Mexico.

God years ago. I dug into the bullfighters down there, and there's like that's all connected to some spy ring to stuff, like the bull ring stuff was and the highlight the bull the bull stuff and the highlight stuff was somehow connected to this this spying industrial complex. I just remember reading it and like it just it just kept coming up, the bullfighting and the highlight and an unrelated subject studying in Mexico City. So I'm convinced that

they're involved in some kind of thing. You know, when you're a spy and you go out of town on the thing, you're not going to do any recreation. You're doing spy stuff. So I don't see them taking the time to go to some highlight match just for the hell of it, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, So you know, when do we expect volume two? Then?

Speaker 2

January February tops. I was trying to get it out by the end of this year. I just keep getting distracted because I'm working on so many different things right now.

Speaker 1

What has you know, we spoke a few months ago, pretty well received video on a Warning from History. Is there anything that you want to share about about that book since we've last talked. I'm just curious about, as have you? Has the community been responsive to what you've been putting out there, Corey or I'm just going to say this, Do they mock you in person? Or is it just behind your back?

Speaker 2

Probably just behind my back, But so I often feel like I'm just screaming into the wind and not really getting anywhere. I've been doing this for almost I mean, I've been a historian for almost eleven years. I've been doing Kennedy for seven plus. You know, at some point in time, here's what's gonna happen. I'm gonna be dead for like twenty years, and someone's gonna discover my book, and then the whole thing's gonna pop long after I'm gone.

But it's really difficult, man, because I see people come up into Kennedy world who have like done nothing, which is crazy to me. I don't understand what makes I don't understand what makes people make it or not make it because I watch people's videos that just straight suck and they got thirty thousand views on it. I'm like, what the fuck is this about? You know what I mean,

It's like, this doesn't make any sense to me. I'm a little abrasive, and I can be a little abrasive, but that shouldn't matter if you care about the truth. And but I don't know. I've said I send my books out to all kinds of people. Recently, I said, I've been talking to Matt Crumpton, who does that solving JFK. He's a little more open to my work, but he hangs out with like Jefferson Morley in that crowd, So I don't know what to expect from that. Jefferson Morley

is a gatekeeper one hundred percent. I ain't skulling bones and Cia I'll kiss his ass in Macy's front window, you know. So, Uh, the Kennedy Research space doesn't seem like it's full of people who care about Kennedy. It seems like it's full of people who care about getting clicks. And that's frustrating to me.

Speaker 1

What would it take? What would you? I mean, what do you want to see? I mean, do you really expect I know you were trying to get this to Luna? I mean, can the tie turn on this case. Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 2

The reason I don't think we're ever gonna get anything from the government, because even though it's a long dead government, like we're sixty years past your government that was in place at the time, there should be no connections and we're never going to get anything because ultimately, when it comes out that the United States murdered its own president with the help of a foreign nation, that will impugne American prestige. Right, they still have plausible deniability. They still do.

They can still say Lee, Harvey Oswald did it. We don't know what you're talking about. They can't ever let anything out that will say otherwise, because like I said, American prestige is everything. So you know, it doesn't matter if it was another government. It doesn't matter if it was another government sixty years ago, because it's still America and we just they'll never let it out no matter,

no matter what. And then it'll obviously lead to all the spycraft stuff and they definitely can't have that get out. That's national security issue stuff.

Speaker 1

Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, there's an there's a maybe an under fifty age group our generation and up and coming who are more receptive to what you're arguing what you found.

Speaker 2

Right, correct. But and I look at people like Dan Bongino and Cash Pattel who were like, gung ho, we're going to tell you the truth people, and then they get in the government and it's like Epstein killed himself, right, Like something happens when you get there, and I don't know what that is. I think they're brought into the scope. They don't have to be brought into specific details on

the assassination. They just have to be let in on the overarching implications and what that'll do for American prestige moving forward. And I think that's all it takes.

Speaker 1

You're also chipping away at a kind of legacy mentality. For instance, when you go to Dallas, there's the trolley tour and it's going to take you over to the highlights, which is always have to do with Oswald.

Speaker 2

Right, I did it. I loved it. It was fun.

Speaker 1

But that's what you're tipping. You're reading. You're reading where Tippett was shot, right, and you got the the plaque there, and it's telling future generations what the official story is. That's right, that's all of that needs to you know. I don't know, do someone have to buy the rooming house and and then have to and then you know, someone who knows what's going on there and has to read orient people's mind because you're really you know how

hard that is to shift perspective. Yeah, that's what you're going up against.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, you know, yeah, And so I don't think I don't think that it'll ever be accepted what really happened, no matter what to point out, like to me, the most, to me, the single biggest piece of absolute proof of conspiracy is McIntire photo number two, which in my opinion, clearly shows, beyond all doubt, David Morales and Jack Valenti on the side of the Secret Service car heading to Parkland Hospital. That is the entire assassination in a single photograph.

I don't see how there's anybody. Do you know the photo I'm talking about.

Speaker 1

I do. It's kind of it's a why it's a long shot. I mean, it's these gentlemen are pretty far away. You need to really well.

Speaker 2

You you're talking about MacIntire one. I'm talking a McIntire two. McIntire two is the close up of the Secret Service car, and that photograph clearly is not Landis and READI on the side out of the Secret Service car. I once you acknowledge, and I got Matt Crumpton from solving JFK the other day to acknowledge that is not ready on the side of the car. It is not reading in

landis on the side of the car. The split second you acknowledge it's not reading in landis, you have to acknowledge everyone in the Secret Service car lied everyone, including Kenny O'Donnell, including Dave Powers, Kennedy's alleged best friend who drank himself to death in nineteen seventy seven. He sat there in the car while they picked up the damn

shooter on the noll and drove to Parkland Hospital. And then Jack Vilnni gets to park On Hospital and plants the original magic bullet from an infield three oh three, which will then be later swapped out by the FBI for what we now know is the magic bullet.

Speaker 1

So what was your reaction two years ago or in November of twenty five from the sixtieth anniversary there was a book that came out last witnessed by Paul Landis Yeah, good service agent. What was your take Corey.

Speaker 2

That guy's a fucking he's alive. He's a fraud. He could be tried tomorrow for conspiracy, conspiracy to commit murder because he was definitely involved in the assassination plot. The fact that he would come out of the woodwork like now after all these years and say that he planted the magic bullet is the dumbest story of all time. It's totally unplausible. We know the real history of the magic bullet. The official story of the magic bullet is that it was this carcano round that hit all these

bones and didn't leave a damn dent. No reading Josiah Thompson six seconds in Dallas, you'll learn that Opi Wright and Darryl Thomlinson found the original magic bullet and that it had a pointed tip. It had a pointed tip. Opi Wright told Josiah Thompson that it was had a pointed tip just like this, and he had one in his desk drawer because he was a hunter, and he pulled one out and he showed it to him. He said,

this is the bullet, exactly the same bullet. And so the bullet ended up going from Richard Johnson Secret Service to the head of the Secret Service over to the FBI, and then the FBI did the swap, and then the FBI fabricated reports about the magic Bullet saying that Tomlinson and Wright confirmed the bullet they had was the magic bullet,

that they found totally false statement. They fabricated reports. God, I forget the name of the FBI agent who went down to do the follow up interviews, but when he was interviewed about his follow up interviews, he's like, I never did any follow up interviews. I never handled any bullet. I don't know what you're talking about, right, So the FBI is guilty in swapping the bullet and fabricating all the stories surrounding it.

Speaker 1

You know, I think it's just probably a coincidence. But Landis is a northeast Ohio guy out of Cleveland, and I think he's still there on the east side of Cleveland Sugar Heights and be interesting in Crumpton, who went to the rival High School of Ferry and myself might might have an insight on that. But you know, so you yeah, you just completely just debunk debunk Landis.

Speaker 2

And it's clearly when you look at the photograph of McIntyre one you can clearly see where landis. Is landis is in the middle of O'Donnell and Dave Powers in the second row, and you can tell us he's he like just got there because his back is facing he's facing totally sideways, which means he probably just hopped in and was still in the process of getting settled when that photograph got snapped.

Speaker 1

So well, you know, we'll wrap it up here with you mentioned the foreign power and a gentleman. After you mentioned thank you. By the way, the Israel Ponds video, I got a comment from an individual that said, very interesting, opened my eyes to what you're saying. I will continue though too. I will remain convinced that Israel is yet another foreign military camp essentially for the US, so he can't came down on the CONCLUSI and that it's just working.

It's just another arm of American military, whereas the argument that we're saying is it's coming the other way around. And Corey, I think you know with work that's being done about even how the Epstein case can tie back to the assassination Robert Maxwell, for one, who was in Czechoslovakia on Hagan always illegally running arms. By the way,

against the US. This could still this still has some legs, so there's a movement there, but potentially that at least a ground swell might be able to a pro Palestinian contingent as well.

Speaker 2

Did you and the guys ever, determine who Irwin Hayman's Texas contact who trained the Haganah was. That's the connection to clay Shaw in Dallas. That so I have on good authority clay Shaw was in Dallas with Irwin Hayman. Then once you put Hayman in the US, my contact who knows about this won't tell me anything. Basically said, good job. Now find his Texas friend who trained the Haganah. That person who trained the Haganah is the connection from Irwin Hayman to clay Shaw and the person that clay

Shaw was in Dallas with. Dr We're trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1

Was, but we've spoken of this. I want to get this out on the record. Though clay Shaw was on the West coast.

Speaker 2

Corey, Oh, he doesn't show up on the West coast till the twenty fifth. He has no alibi for nothing. He was on that he was allegedly on that train. No, uh huh. So the controversy was because he allegedly showed up. The story had always been he showed up like the day or over the day before the assassination, but no, I determined he showed up on the twenty fifth. So he doesn't have any alibi. And so I don't how

do I say this? On the David Ferry trip to alleged trip to the Winterland and all that stuff, there's a phone call made and I can't remember if on that trip they said that they went to Alexandria. I think they did so boboof could see his parents or something like that, because they lived in Alexandria Louisiana. There's

a there's an airport in Louisiana in Alexandria. And also if you dig far enough, you'll find there's a hotel in Alexandria that the FBI did a ton of digging into reference to the assassination, and only about one page of this turned up in Garrison's files. But somewhere is a deep dive into this hotel in Alexandria that the FBI did in reference to David Ferry's trip. I believe that Alexandria is somehow tied to Clay Shaw and his alibi.

I can't figure out what, but my gut instinct is telling me that Alexandria stuff has to do with Shaw, and he has his parents live there also, so there's something there. I don't know what. And I'm still having some issues piecing together some of the Galveston trip, like what did they do on telephone Road? They did something on telephone Road according to bo Booth they went to

some restaurant there. But no, because there's a whole other aspect of the Galveston trip that I can't seem to stumble across, involving Sid Toarante and a guy named Monte de Monte. Monte de Monti does a big article on Monty. You know who Montey Demonty is if you start any of that stuff. Monte de Monti was like some sort of mobster slash card shark slash hustler that somehow gained some kind of notoriety in Hollywood. And he was dating this stripper who did the Jack Ruby circuit named god

I can't even remember her name. But he ends up getting He's living in Oak Cliff and he ends up getting a job to go down to Galveston to help Jack Ruby. And this is all during David Ferry's alleged Galveston trip. But it's never any clarification of what Monty Demnte did. And you have the reference to the to the restaurant on Telephone Road. But then I determined that there was one of these strip clubs that Monte de Monte's girl was dancing at on Telephone Road. So I

don't know if that's involved. There's a lot of little, tiny, minuscule nuggets of data surrounding stuff that happened in Houston and Galveston that Saturday that I'm dying to get to the bottom of that I can't. I don't know how much it impacts the story. I think it more has to do it getting people moved around. But yeah, there's this little tidbits man that just ooh, I'm dying to know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and we'll meet up again, Corey and chat Moore stay on the line. Okay, Thanks love for being with me, Thanks for having me

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