Episode 110: Kacie Dancy with Pop's Beef

Welcome to another episode of The Corner Booth, the official podcast of RestaurantOwner.com.

Today, the restaurant industry is changing faster than ever. Learn from successful independent restaurant operators and other industry leaders as they share best practices that will help you engage your team, delight your guests, and grow your business.

And welcome everyone to another corner booth. I'm Chris Tripoli with restaurantowner.com and it's always been my pleasure to take you to different places and to share with you interesting stories of restaurants from their beginnings, concepting and growth. And so today we're actually in Chicago. We're talking to Casey Dancy, the COO of Pops Beef. So get comfortable. We're going to talk about a well-established, growing concept from Chicago and expanding from there.

Casey, thank you so much for taking the time and welcome to Corner Booth. Thanks for having me, Chris. I appreciate it. Pops Beef. Can't wait to get into that. But before we do, why don't we talk just a little bit about you? Let listeners know how you got interested in the industry first, how you got into the position of where you are now, operating multiple units of Pops Beef. Pops Beef. So I would like to say that I was born in the back of one of our restaurants.

Nice. Now, we haven't heard that one before. Very, very, very much family owned. So my father opened Pop's Beef in March of 1980. So this upcoming March of 2025 will be 45 years in business. And so when I say this has truly been a family restaurant, it has truly been a family restaurant. My dad started it with his mom as his only employee working the front counter. And his sister was the main fry grill lady. and his dad's cooked and sliced the beef. And so that's how it started.

And now it's evolved to now his children running it, which is a really cool story and legacy. And it's added a really neat dynamic to it. Yes, I think that it's helped that from day one, when I was old enough, I've always been a part working at some aspect of the restaurant, whether it was taking a customer's order or in the back on every Sunday, we'd have to come up and help grandma marinate chicken and kind of get our hands dirty.

And so from a very young age, I knew what it took to kind of run a restaurant or what it should look like to be in a restaurant. And so that was something that I think I hated at the time, but I'm forever grateful. Oh, really? Yeah, because, you know, in high school or when you're younger, you have cooler things, better things to do than help dad out at the restaurant. But it humbles you. You learn amazing, amazing things, you know, getting your hands dirty in the

restaurant. And I think every 16, 17, 18, even younger, however young they'll take you, should work in the restaurant industry. I think the things that it teaches you are things that you can't learn anywhere else. Just anything from being able to talk to a customer to humbling you, certainly, and what that looks like. And it's certainly hard work, getting your hands dirty. I mean, restaurant is hard work. You're on your feet all day.

Customers are difficult. Employees are difficult. And it teaches you kind of that, you know, how to manage a difficult situation. Well, I bet you're right. Now, that we have heard before, and I don't think it misses the point at all, and it's certainly worth underlining that there is a certain amount of multitasking that people get in this industry that are excellent tools for them to use anywhere.

Like you mentioned, the idea of handling different guests at different times, the teamwork aspect that you mentioned, just the actual organization and hard work, standing on your feet, the speed of the issues that go on in the restaurant business are all things that maybe help people, I guess, build their work ethic for whatever it is that they might wind up doing.

Absolutely. So you started very young, got into the family business, worked your way through high school, even though sometimes it may not have been the most fun time. And then eventually, I guess it did turn a light switch on that this was your career decision. Is that is that correct? And you decided you're not going to do anything other than this.

So I worked for two years after college in wine sales and I joke around I said that wine is a little bit more fun than beef sandwiches but of course the family aspect of the business and the legacy that we hold and just I think for so long and I think people miss the you know it's become not only family with my in my family but the customers have become family the community has become family the employees have become family we have employees that have been with us 20 plus years.

And as you know, labor is very difficult and retention within the labor field is extremely, extremely difficult. And because they've been family, they've stuck with us. I mean, and definitely in hard times, you know, like let's say 2020, the pandemic, that was very difficult. And I don't think if we had those relationships with number one, our community, and then two, our labor, our, you know, employees, we wouldn't have made it through those times.

And so I'm proud to say that our corporate location kind of, you know, that has been at the forefront of everything we do, and that has then trickled down to our franchisees. And I think that that's extremely important and the reason why we have been successful for 45 years.

Well, let's go ahead now and explain Pops Beef. What is the concept? A little bit about the facility, style of service, menu, hours of operation, anything you'd like to share so we can paint a pretty good picture. So we are quick service. We sell Italian beef, burgers, dogs. Our menu, if you look online, is very extensive. Another reason why we've got somebody for every, you know, we got something for everybody, excuse me.

So we've got, you know, the hot dogs and the chicken fingers for the kids. We've got amazing salads and chicken wraps for, well, you'd say women. I'm not, you know, trying to put them in a category, but then we got the hearty beef sandwich and the double cheeseburgers for the, you know, heavier eaters. And so we do have a very extensive menu. We cook and slice our beef fresh daily, which is something, you know, it's not frozen. It's not coming out of a commissary.

Every location does that every single day. You know, our salads are fresh made. We're very, very proud of that, of where we source our beef from. Our hot dogs are proprietary. We're not using a different brand. We're not using Vienna beef. We're using Pops, which is something we're very proud of as well. But yeah, so, and you asked about our concept. So our original location is still at the same location. And it's very interesting. We have no drive-through. We have no seating.

We have, it's very, very small, walk-up only. And then our second location is that way as well. And then as we kind of expanded, they've gotten bigger over the years. But we have restaurants and gas stations. We have standalone. We have one in kind of, the model is not so much, you know, cookie cutter. And another reason why our franchisees love us, because we are able to work within their budget as far as, you know, did they want to buy, rent, whatever that looks like.

And I think that our concept works in a lot of different places, which is also pretty cool. Now, if we would have our way, I don't think you ever turned down a drive-through. I don't think you ever turned down seating. You know, if you could have it all, you know, that'd be wonderful. But we've been working with what we have and we've been very successful and we're, you know, walk-up only, which is kind of crazy.

Well, okay. So maybe you can go into a little bit how you decide what are the conceptual points. Because as you mentioned, flexibility is one of your advantages. Locker, small, part of a convenience store.

I get it. So flexibility is an advantage. That means you're not cookie cutter at all. How do you decide then, since you've been doing some pretty good growth, So what are the key conceptual items that absolutely positively have to be? Because it sounds like we're flexible on many of the others. Yeah, absolutely. So 3,500 square feet is obviously the number one because we do have to have room because we do cook and slice our beef fresh daily.

A lot of, you know, we have to have room, I guess, essentially for everything that we do and to have the operation run smoothly. So that would be number one. And then number two, of course, is kind of what does the area look like that surrounds that? I mean, are you going to have a community that supports it? Are you going to have businesses that support? Are you going to have room? You know, we very rarely now would cookie cutter our, like our corporate location.

It's not ideal to not have a drive-thru. It's not ideal to not have seating. And so, but you know, that changes too. I mean, you look at other restaurant models and it used to be they wanted this big seating area for all the customers. And then I think after the pandemic, that's really downside too. So I just think that I feel our, you know, customer base is constantly changing in what they want. And so kind of being able to give it all at any certain time is kind of what you want.

And I think you can do that in a lot of different ways now, especially like look at third-party services. I mean, that wasn't available. So that's, you know, huge for us. So even now we're looking to remodel the corporate and even have kind of a separate, you know, a separate spot for those third-party pickups and your online ordering and all that kind of stuff.

So I feel like we are constantly trying to evolve what that looks like and make it easy for the customers as well as the employees for them to have a great experience. Well, you mentioned we learned a lot of this through COVID, and you're right. It's impossible to talk to people today and not look back at those lessons. So I can see how flexibility probably really worked well for you because the idea of having a traditional inside seating wasn't working then and isn't as important now.

I think also some of that comes from the cost factor. So if you don't really need a large inside dining room and you can do the volume that you're talking about with small seating because you're doing walk-up and these additional revenue options, let's talk a little bit about them. Since COVID ended and people really, really hung on to their need for convenience.

What kind of sales ratio have you seen in most of your units that are now online order for pickup, third-party delivery, that basically have nothing to do with dine-in? Right. So you have to remember, we've been in business for 45 years. So our cost base is older. Like you'd say 55, 60. We still have a very large older generation that eats with us. And so I don't want to say they shy away from, but they very much still like a traditional model.

So I would say that our, you know, and I'm like, not all of our customers, of course, are older, but we have to cater to a large gap of age. So I feel, yes, as though the third party is amazing and what COVID did. And I would say our range is still like 20%, 20, maybe sometimes 30, depending. Our seat locations, that's way higher than the ones that are further out in the suburbs.

Which is, you know, just part of, I guess, city life is kind of a faster pace than suburban life is people are out driving anyways. And so we see, obviously, it's closer to 30, 35 percent in the city, whereas, you know, kind of, like I said, further out is maybe more 15, 20. That's great. Yeah, great. It does. And I really like your comment about the customer profile, since you have such an established brand. Some of your locations obviously have been around for a long,

long time. So you may have some customers in that 45, 50 or older.

Right. Now let's kind of get into, however, the growth, because you've got locations now that are, you chose franchise growth. So that means you're moving into a lot of newer markets, suburban markets, different customer profile, probably skewed, like you said, younger, more residential, more kids after school, or I don't know, maybe more to go for family meals, softball, or, you know, after swim team. Am I kind of guessing that right? Do you get a lot of that or not? Hell in the head. Yep.

And what I will say to that is if you have restaurants that, well, twofold, if you have restaurants that aren't doing well and they are in a smaller market, and like you said, suburban, get into your communities. We never turn away a Little League sponsorship. I mean, we are in the library program, the Easy Reader programs. We are in churches. We are in schools. And of course, what they will allow. Now what they allowed 20, 30, 40 years ago is a lot different than what they'll allow now.

But nothing is too small. Nothing is too big. We just did actually this past Monday, we have a huge partnership now with American Red Cross. And with the wave of the hurricanes that came through our country, our country is completely depleted of the blood supply. And so we just did this huge blood drive. I mean, and it was a smash hit. And to see that the customers that came out to support this, you know, this cause, it's that relationship goes twofold.

You know, you support your customers and their little league team, and then they support you and your business. And so it's just been amazing to see that relationship. And again, going kind of back to family, that relationship with customers even has been more of a family. And it's cool to see the generations, you know, of the younger kids, and then they get the job at Pops when they're 16, and then they start having kids.

So we've seen generation after generation come through and kind of expand. Even we have a couple of restaurants now in Indiana, and so a lot of people have been moving to Indiana. So we've seen our customers out there. And so it's very cool to be able to see that and because they've become family to us. And Pops is actually, you know, the name not only of the restaurant, but the name of dad. Of dad. Yes, absolutely. And then I think you kind of alluded to expansion and what

does that look like for us? And I would say that it has to be the right franchisee. You know, everyone worries about how we're going to grow faster, how we're going to grow bigger. And I don't know faster is better. I don't know, you know, these people that want to get so big so fast, they go under. And I'm not saying that to scare anybody, but I think the right franchisee is very important to make sure it fits within your model, within your mission.

And, you know, are they going to run it the way you want it to be run? Because anybody, I mean, a lot of times a lot of people can get investors. A lot of people can throw a bunch of money into something. And to be honest with you, money is, yes, it can get you started. Yes, it'll make your restaurant beautiful. But is it going to be the thing that keeps your, you know, restaurant going year after year after year? I don't know if that's, you know, I don't, you could throw a bunch of money

at anything. And I don't know that that's the answer.

Well, how did the decision come about where the family decided we're going to grow through franchising and how many of the units are still company that the family operate and how many of the units are franchisees that you help support? So now there's only one corporate location that's only a family run. So it's kind of a funny restaurant or kind of a funny story. We never wanted to be a franchise. You know, when dad started out, it was kind of, you know, this guy came,

hey, I'd love to open one. Okay, have a licensing agreement. So we did a licensing agreement. You know, it worked great. So then the second guy came, hey, we want to open a Pop's Beef. Sure. Here's all my recipes. Here's my licensing agreement. Go ahead. Good luck on your own. So very much so each of our locations, when they started off, number two, three, four, were very mom and pop within the towns that they grew up in because it didn't start off as a franchise.

It wasn't, you have to do these colors and this is what it looks like. And, you know, very cookie cutter. It was never like that. So then in 2010, the government came and was like, ah, hold on a second.

We got too many licensing agreements. you're not operating as a licensing agreement you're operating as a franchise and you know truly my dad said we are not I can promise we are not collecting a royalty we are not you know that that we're not doing anything so anyways they said we won't find you as long as you you know kind of go through the process of turning your licensing agreement into a franchise and that's what we did and so since 2010 we've become a franchise and so I will say that

there's become very many difficulties with that because think about it you're running your mom and pop shop as a licensing agreement, and now you're a corporate franchise. So we're telling them, hey, now we got to operate this way. So there was definitely some points of, you know, contingency through that and definitely growth through that. And I think every year, I mean, I mean, that was 2010. So we're coming up on 15 years.

We've technically been an official franchise and we're still working on becoming, you know, people will say, hey, I tasted a beef sandwich at this location. It doesn't taste the same. And, you know, of course, we'll have people go out there, take taste tests. But what's funny about our restaurant is gravy, beef gravy. I don't know if you're familiar with the beef sandwich, but normally you get

a beef sandwich and it's dunked in the gravy. So you normally get a soggy sandwich, if that makes sense to anybody listening. Sometimes people even eat it with a fork. That's how juicy you can make it. Well, gravy is 99% water. Each of our restaurants is in a different water. So some have city water, some have well, Some have said, you know, it's different. And so that's another part of the growing pains. You know, we always thought, oh, maybe commissary, you know,

but we didn't want to get rid of the cooked and fresh daily. So each restaurant. So kind of going through that and saying, this is what we're going to have to do to make up for the water situation in each of our locations. We had to put water purifiers in a lot of different things.

So just how to get through, really become, what is a franchise and really how do you make it taste exact same and how do you make the employees greet the customer the same and have the same experience at one restaurant, let's say in Illinois to another in Indiana? Well, let's talk a little bit about that quality, because, of course, now you're getting me hungry. If I understand it correctly, too, that true Italian beef, this is a sliced beef round, isn't it?

Yeah, thin sliced, and it's kept very tender in a steam table. Exactly right. And so you're taking the tongs with the moisture, putting it into a really cool French. It's a warmed French roll, right? Exactly right. Now, I know the dipping in the au jus, which, by the way, I love it. I can't do this without dripping all over my shirt. Is there the option of the melted cheese or not? Because that gets into that not really original, now it's a French dip, or where do you stand on that?

So if you ask me, so what we're also, we're known for our beef, but what we're also known for is our homemade hot jardiniere. And I know jardiniere is something that's very specific to the Midwest. And I didn't learn this until, you know, I was much older and started traveling. And I'd be like, oh, I'll take, I love everything hot and spicy. So I'm very partial. But when you go other places and say, hey, can I have jardiniere? And they look at you like you're crazy, but it's, it's a pepper.

It's a kind of a, so ours is peppers, cucumber, you know, excuse me, celery. And it's kind of got the seasoning. And what's best about our hot jardiniere, I believe is the same seasoning that we make to use the Italian beef. We used to make the hot jardiniere. So if you ask me how I get it, I get it. What they call it wet, right? So baptized. I don't know. A lot of people use a lot of different terms, but you see extra hot peppers, melted mozzarella.

And so, you know, melting mozzarella, But a lot of people like the squeezed cheese, the beef and cheddar. I'm with you. No, I'm a melted motz. Same. Oh, that's the best. But sweet peppers, we do have a traditional mild jardiniere. There's lots of different options. Okay, so now let's kind of get back on to track because I think some of the listeners are probably making notes about growth. And I hope they really understood that.

The idea of the loose license, like you started with units 2, 3, and 4, those are a little bit troublesome. There is a legal setup.

And you switch to it. Now, for the last 14 years, you've been managing a franchise corporation. I really appreciate the way you talked about the selection process of franchising. You're looking for right fit, not how fast. You're looking for the right fit with mission, not so much quantity of units you can open. But then after they're selected, can you walk us through some of the other franchisor

obligations like the training, the opening assistance, the ongoing support? What is it you need to do? So that's tricky, right? So it starts obviously from the build out, site selection, kind of moving forward. So the right person is chosen. Of course, financing goes into that. If they have the means to finance, they then site select. We kind of are part of them with that. Do we think it's going to work? Do they not? Because of course, if it's not a great location, it's not going to survive.

So after site selection, we kind of go into the build out. What is their build out going to look like? And this is a cool process, too, because, like I said, we're not cookie cutters. So we're in gas stations, we're in standalones, we're in strip malls. And so they have a lot of wiggle room as to what they want their location to look like.

We don't have, of course, we have our colors, but we don't have one set, you know, you don't, I would say that you don't walk into one location and think, oh, this is Pops, as you would kind of maybe a more corporate. Gotcha. It's like a McDonald's, I guess I would say. So kind of they have a lot of say in that, which is really cool. Some have chosen very modern. Some have chosen very family, old time-ish, I would say.

Regardless, it's a clean operation. Definitely the way it's set up, we have a huge input because we are, you know, we pride ourself in how fast we are in our locations. As far as, you know, people want quick service. They don't want to stand around 10 minutes and wait for, you know, if they're on the lunch break, they don't want to stand around for 10 minutes and wait for their food. They only have, let's say, a 20-minute lunch break or whatever they have.

And so we are very, you know, and then let's go to training. So the restaurant location's built out. We go into training. What does that look like? We have a team. They usually come into our corporate location and train with us. Another thing is, is that owner is we will not accept an owner that is only an investor. That owner has to know the model and has to know how to make a beef sandwich, has to know how to cook the beef, of course. And then, of course, you know, they usually have a GM.

That same thing goes for that GM. They need to know every aspect of the operation. And then just kind of going down from there, you know, probably a month out. We ask for their staff. Two weeks out, we're still training. And then, of course, we go there, usually two weeks out. We start training them on the POS system and kind of what does it look like? How does it flow? And then, yeah, of course, you know, then the obviously restaurant opens.

And then, you know, we have somebody that goes around weekly and checks the stores. Kind of that conversation is always open. Of course, it being, you know, COO, I guess, you know, your phone's always on. They have, you know, if they have issues, they can always call. Ongoing training. We've certainly had people in our corporate location continually

training. if one of the guys is out and seeing something's not going well or the beef isn't cooking right or sliced right, we either go there and train or they come to us. We say, no, you know, you're not operating like we want you to be. So that training goes twofold. But I think the main thing is that you're always checking on them and they're checking on us. You know, are we doing it right? How can we get better? If they're seeing something that's not right, you know, we're not always the

ones chasing them. They're saying like, hey, this is kind of off. How can we make this better? So it's, again, it's a family relationship when you're having, you know, and of course you have your little, you know, points of contingency. It's hard sometimes, you know, because it is like a family, you know, being a franchisee. And it is a little different. It is a little different in that you're dealing with independent owners.

You're not really dealing with, say, a corporate store where it's a manager, for example, on your payroll. When you're talking to the manager of a franchisee, they're on the franchisee's payroll. So I get it.

But you did a really good job of covering a professional franchise approach from the careful selection to, again, the supervision and approval of site. Once that person gets their, you know, financing in order, your flexibility with design.

But that means there still has to be final design approval. I love it that the key people manager and owner come to your training facility corporate store but then your team goes to their store to assist with opening and then after the opening training there's that ongoing field services and support that's a very thorough picture for any of you out there listening to think someday I'm going to be a franchisor what does that look like well that's exactly what it looks like

there's the ongoing support afterwards so it isn't just, I told you what to do, and I'm waiting for my royalty check in the mail. No, absolutely not. And I hate to say that if that's your plan, it's not going to work. Right. Well, it just won't work well, I guess I should say. And it'll give you a lot of headache. So how many do you have now? Illinois, Indiana, how many of these franchise locations are out there? 17 will open as a... Well, you know, it's like I said, nothing's ever easy.

We were supposed to have 17 open in November. We had an issue with the signs on the building. We had an issue with this and that. And so, you know, here we are, probably looking January 2025, and that's okay. Anything else, I want it to be the right, you know, the right signs, the right everything going in versus the wrong just to open the door. So January will be 17.

Well, and to only be off a couple of months with some of the worst stories appearing in different parts of the country is probably not bad. But generally speaking, about how long does it take from the time that you approve, you know, the franchisee's location to they have to get their design into permit? They got to get construction, equipment, hiring, opening. About how many months do you see? I was, you know, off the cuff, I was going to say six to nine months.

First, that's, you know, that's there's a lot of like you just said, permits and, you know, the city specs. And, you know, we've gone to open restaurants and, you know, the health inspector comes in and says this or the building permit didn't do this. And so I would say on average six to nine. But usually when someone comes to us, especially a new franchisee, they already have kind of the site that they like or that their dream store would go here.

And so I feel that it's not like we're saying, OK, we want to have this franchisee. Let's now start trying to find a restaurant for him. It kind of comes to us backwards. They have the restaurant already selected. They kind of already have probably done some research as what it would take to open it if they were to be approved and go into there. So I feel like that shaves off maybe a couple weeks, maybe even months, because we're not looking for a new restaurant for that.

Exactly. Okay. And of the 17 units, are some of these now operators that have done multiples because the first one worked well and they've opened a second and a third? Yeah. So I have a really cool story about that. Actually, the guy's in Indiana. A gentleman opened his first location and he has 10 children. And so five, I want to say it's five because some have shared stores. Five of his children now have gone in and together, you know,

it's not five restaurants. So I think he has one, two, four, four restaurants. So have gone in and opened or taken over his dad's restaurants and are now working in our restaurants, which is super cool. We have another set of three brothers that have opened multiple. And then actually my brother, he graduated from college, thought he was going to work with us in the corporate location. And let me tell you, that did not work well. So we decided to be a franchisee and he is now a franchisee,

now a franchisee of a couple of our locations. And so, yeah, we do have definitely multi, you know, unit owners. Those are three of our multi-unit owners that have a couple of locations. But then we have the one-off ones, too. So I imagine these are lunch and dinner that are seven days a week or? 11 to 9 is 11 to 8, depending, 10 to 8, you know, depending on where the location is, is our normal hours of operation.

And are some of these, say, in the business districts called upon for, say, large delivery? Or do you do catering, family packs, things of that nature? Absolutely. Actually, Christmas Eve is our busiest day of the entire year. So it's crazy. We will go through, and I would love to, I always say I'm going to record a video on Christmas Eve because the walk-in coolers are, you know, floor to ceiling, full of beef.

And so it's kind of a cool thing to see. Like I said, our bread gets delivered every single day, cooked in sliced fresh daily, not cooked, of course, the bread. But it's really cool to see. And so now that we have grown, and like I said, a few of our locations, two of them that I can think of are in gas station concepts. And the gas station concepts are right next to massive Amazon, UPS, one's next to the Joliet Raceway track.

And so it's really cool because those have all been able to, again, we were talking about third party, but you know deliver for their breaks as well as cater you know huge events for them but yes definitely uh christmas eve is our busy busiest day i would say for our corporate location but then our summers because of you know graduation parties and summer drill outs and stuff like that is is really our busiest time for catering so you know what ebb and flows throughout the year.

And we spent a little bit of time going back to something that obviously you do very, very well. And I know that everyone is always concerned with how they can market their brand.

You jumped right into how important community promotions were. I love the example of this annual Red Cross blood drive and how big that is. And it sounds like you're known for that. But we just kind of talked very quickly about, you know, working with the church, working with the school.

Don't forget about athletics and sponsor teams. Can you talk a little bit more about how you see your franchisees' budget, about what percentage of sales do they typically reserve to cover marketing and promotion? And do they do all those same things that you were just talking about? Absolutely. And, you know, over the 15 years of becoming a franchise, our marketing budget, you know, was zero because it was a licensing agreement.

So there was no marketing budget in place. And so my dad always felt that you are in your restaurant, you know how to market the best because you are in, you know, you are in your town, you are in, you know, you know what's going to work and what doesn't. And maybe what works in Indiana is not going to work in Illinois. So we still have never collected. So within the past, I would say five years, we've collected a very small marketing budget because we've seen the power in numbers, right?

So, like I said, we still, we do have very much an older community. So we do paper ads. I mean, paper ads, paper coupons. I know it's dinosaur archaic as it sounds, but they still work for us. Not only that, but the bounce back cards we've seen work too. So like if someone's coming in, you get kind of give them a coupon for next time to use. But, you know, we and like I said, that's why we've started collecting a small budget, because nowadays.

I mean, it is overwhelming with how many things, I mean, everything from geofencing and tracking to the Google search engine to the third party delivery service and what they can do for marketing, you know, your social media, your radio, your TV. Again, I said paper mailers, email blast, bounce back, text. We have a text message program. We're launching after the first of the year an app. I mean, it really, truly is overwhelming.

And we've collected the small budget to be able to try all these things because you never know what's going to stick. You really throw everything at the wall and, you know, see what sticks for you. And, you know, we used to try these things. So, you know, you try geofencing for, let's say, three months. Well, that never worked. Well, no kidding. It never worked because by the time you spend to gather your list, well, then you turn it off. So, like I said, anything I think you have to stick with.

But you can do all that. You could spend all the marketing dollars you want. And my dad always, this is a real, real pain point, I would say for my father, because he always felt the best marketing and advertising was word of mouth and customer service. If someone comes in, you have a clean restaurant, you get in a delicious meal, and the person behind the counter couldn't be any nicer, greets you by name, then that customer is going to tell all their friends.

And what better marketing and advertising can you get than word of mouth?

For the first 28 years he was open he did not do one thing of marketing advertising never sent out a coupon never did anything I mean other than supporting you know churches or stuff like that but so it's kind of a like I said again a point of contention for him because 28 years in business he never did anything for marketing advertising and I just don't think in this day and age it's the same and so that's where kind of like him being old school and me being new school kind

of family family you know kind of how I would run the franchise and how he would there's definitely a little bit of a power struggle I would say well yeah but I tell you what I think most of our listeners would agree that I think. The right approach that we see most successful, especially in the quick serve work, is the combination of both. I think your dad's, you know, initial idea that, you know, good operations is still the best because it does. It creates guest satisfaction.

That means word of mouth is positive. If they use social media, they're posting something positive. If they're taking a picture of that really good, ooey gooey, juicy, juicy, cheesy thing, it's on Instagram and see that's good. So getting a little bit of the new social media, but it's coming from the foundation that he still preaches, which is good operations, clean restaurant, good quality, make them happy.

And you're going to tell people and come back. I can see how the two work together. Yeah. I guess the franchisees, because they're in different locations, might choose their own community involvement team to sponsor, be involved with. Okay. That makes great. The huge thing that they do is they do the give back night.

So let's say school was looking to fundraise. You eat at Pops, you know, from 5 to 8 on a Wednesday night, we'll donate 25% of our proceeds back to your school or back to your team or whatever. Well, that's a wonderful idea. Yeah, so it's worked wonderful.

It's an awesome way to get into the community. It's an awesome way for people maybe that haven't tried your restaurant, even though, you know, you think you've been here for 45 years, but we get people come in the door all the time and say, oh, I didn't even know you guys were here. And so you kind of, you know, it's a great way to get in there. You know, maybe new people are moving to town or, like I said, they just never tried you before. So I would say that that's kind of our best

sponsorship. They get to try you, and then you're donating, you know, the proceeds back to their team. But yeah, community has always been really, really, really important and at the forefront of everything we do. There was somebody that I worked with long ago, and they did that, too. They thought they were going to be doing something nice for this newer school that opened in their neighborhood. But the promotion worked so well that now they do it every single year.

And it was exactly what you talked about. They said, let's just pick a night. We're going to donate a good percentage of our proceeds. and the school will tell us what it is they need. So one year they were promoting money for furniture and coffee equipment for the teacher's lounge or money to go help with playground equipment for the, you know, kids' ground. There's always something that the school needs and can't afford. And this was, I don't know, 20-some years ago. And they said,

we did it for them when it was their first year. And every year they come to us with what the idea should be. And our customers are expecting every year they know one night a week we're doing a give back. And so it sounds like it works there as well. Yes, absolutely. It's great.

Okay, so I got to ask you, how often do you get asked, especially at your corporate store, how realistic is the popular TV show Bear, being that it's all about Chicago and it's all about sandwiches? It's also a very, very small location. Yes. You know what? I watched the first episode and I didn't care for it. And, you know, obviously everybody's a little different, but not realistic at all and just kind of dark.

I don't know. No, it just, I mean, I don't, yeah, not realistic for us or, you know, whatever. But, and that's truly city. We don't have, when I say our city location, it's in Mount Greenwood, which was kind of right on the border of the city. And so we don't have any true city locations like that, I will say. So we operate a very different restaurant than what is shown on TV. And isn't that amazing? gang.

I just had to ask, and just to let you know from my viewpoint, yeah, it has a little bit of that, or at least it's a start, but it gets, if you see some of the more recent ones, it does get a little bit more positive, more storytelling, a little bit more fun, a little bit more realistic. So maybe I'll give it a chance.

How is your position? What's a day in the life of somebody now who's got a corporate store, but also has to support franchisees for, say, some of the listeners that might be choosing that as a route for them. You know, what are your responsibilities like? Again, I think it's, you know, kind of similar to when I talk about a licensing agreement versus franchising. Because I started day-to-day in the restaurant and I've always been day-to-day in the restaurant, it's hard to pull myself out.

And for a long time, you know, dad always felt like you weren't working unless you were serving a beef sandwich. You know, unless you were taking that customer's order, you're not working, right? If you're in an office, you're not working. Of course, that has evolved. And I would say my job has gotten really cool. I've gotten to do things like this, podcasts. You know, I was on WGN, our local TV, promoting a blood drive. Monday, I was at the blood drive, you know, all day.

It's really cool. I mean, I would say I'm in the stores a lot. I get to talk to the franchisees, which are awesome. But, you know, a lot of stuff and people don't realize a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. And I certainly we don't have and we are very small when I come to talk about what our corporate looks like. We don't have a large team. We don't have an office. We are very much in our restaurant slash home based when we are home.

I'm working on a computer. And so now this time of year, you know, I'll be in the restaurant more just because it's, like I said, it's our catering season and it's crazy busy. And so every day is different. I don't have, this is what I do on Monday and this is what I do on Tuesday. And so it's kind of funny when people first initially come to us and say, hey, I want to open a restaurant. The first thing my dad does is talk him out of it.

He said, why would you want to do this? You know, it's every day. And it's true. Restaurants are hard. People don't realize. I know a lot of our listeners are already in the restaurant or maybe quick service, you know, realm or whatever. But there's no days off, right? Most restaurants are open every day. You know, some are open late nights. And, you know, with all the hardships that come with a restaurant, it's not easy, certainly.

I mean, so I always say where the biggest fire is, that's where you'll find me.

Whether it's at a franchisee, whether it's at a corporate location, maybe it's something we got going on, you know, behind the scenes, planning for next year. What's our marketing calendar going to look like? So it's different. I wear a lot of hats and that's fun, too. I've never been somebody that could just sit behind a desk and do one thing all day. So, yeah. Well, it probably helps that you don't have an office. I like that.

There are more people moving to that where I've talked with people that say pretty much you're the same type of job description where you've got the operations responsibility, you've got franchisee support, but you're also very active in the community and marketing planning. You're wearing three or four different hats. And I can understand that because of that, you don't have a standard, you know, day-to-day activity. But a lot of people say it's gotten kind of easier because you know what?

I've got my laptop with me. I can work from anywhere. I go from store to store. Don't need to be in an office. Don't even have one anymore. My office is my car because I talk to people while I'm driving instead of talking to people while I'm sitting at a desk. It's. Well, and no projects too small or too big. You know, I had a franchisee call me this morning. Hey, something that doesn't look right on the website. Can you fix this for

me? So I log in the back end of the office and you're fixing the office. You know, and it's hard to, you know, you'll get emails all the time. And especially during this time when you're in the restaurant and, you know, people are like, oh, you're not responding to my email. And I'm like, I'm not, you know, I haven't been at my desk in two, three days. And, you know, I know you get it on your phone, but, you know,

to sit down and write an email does take a couple minutes. And if you're on the line, that's not something you can do. So I'm not always saying it's the most efficient. And, you know, I'm not always the most efficient at my job because you wear so many hats and you have to multitask. But I would say it definitely keeps you grounded. And, you know, relationally speaking, you can relate easily to a customer. You can relate easily to a franchisee because you're doing it as well.

It's not like I'm sitting in some big office saying, making these plans and not in the restaurant. And so I feel like I can fit in with whoever I'm speaking with because I've done it or I'm doing it. Exactly. Well, and I'm sure they appreciate that, too. Is there a level of technology that is helpful now with the way you either communicate? Is there some cloud-based programs that you're using to collect data? Or is there a particular program you like to use that helps with your communication?

Sometimes technology is a dual-edged sword. But I do learn from people on the podcast of what types of tools are helping them and that they prefer.

Is it inventory management? Is it accounting software? Or what is it that you're using that helps you? So I will say that is something we lack in. And I will say because our franchisees, again, I know I keep referencing this, but we came from my agreements. They are older. We have half and half now. I would say half of our franchisees are older in that 50s group. And then we have the other half maybe in the upper 30s, 40s. And there really is a big jump between the two because the younger guys,

they have POS systems. You know, we use Toast at our corporate location, and we're trying to kind of roll that out for the system. But our older locations, I mean, they're still pen and paper, taking your order and, you know, kind of plugging it in the cash register. And so something that we've been able to draw, and when you talk about drawing at Olenek, that's something we've relied on huge for our third-party services.

Because for the first time, that is one program that all of us are using that I can see kind of what's working and what's not working. Now, I know that that's very, very, very small. But as we grow, we kind of talk about what's to come and how we're growing. But number one being the app. So the loyalty program, I'll be able to see what customer, you know, kind of pulling that data in. These are customers that are walking in all of our locations.

Be able to do gift cards on the app, be able to kind of, you know, even draw in more customers that way. And then two, hoping to roll out a POS system that we all have. So that would be another form of analytics that we do have. That would be good. No, that would be very good to have that kind of similarity. So at least you're gathering data in the same fashion that you need. That's going to be very important. Well, that'll be kind of important to continue to moving towards.

And And that gets me into that last point, moving towards, how about a little crystal ball here to end with? What do you see these next few years of Pops Beef moving towards with either growth or operational improvement? Or what should we expect from you guys over the next few years? Well, I would love to say that we'll have our app launched, running, you know, be able to have marketing. That'll be a new form of marketing for us, number one. Number two,

I'd love to roll out POS system. like I said, half of our system right now is all in the same, but we still have that second half that's not. So I'd love to do that. Three, when people ask about growth, again, I will always reference it's got to be the right versus just new and big and fast. We have, so like I said, we have another restaurant opening hopefully January of 2025.

We have two more restaurants in the pipeline and those are existing franchisees opening more locations, which is really exciting. And, you know, to me, if it grew just internally and the franchisees that we have continue to grow their stores and bigger and, you know, that way, I would love that. I would be happy with that. I will always say bigger is not always better. You know, sometimes it's more of a headache. I think we have a great brand. We have a great model.

It's very flexible and dynamic. And our menu is awesome. Our product, of course, I've grown up on until love. Nobody has a better beef sandwich. Mark my words. But, you know, and like I said, I would love to have a crystal ball. Would I love to open 10 more locations in the next 10 years or five years? Yes, absolutely. But again, it has to be the right fit. I don't want to sit here in 10 years and have the same conversation and say it didn't work out.

Right. Or people aren't happy with the service and the product that they're getting at our locations. So I would just be if, you know, we had had our same great product or seeing, you know, great motto that we stand behind and people can get a great sandwich and great customer service. You see, how can people, if they want to learn a little more about you, your concept, find you? What's your website, email, anything you want to give? Popspeef.com, P-O-P-S-P-E-E-F.com, of course, is our website.

Easy enough. My email is kkkacie at popsbeef.com. If you'd love to email me or chat about it, I'd love that. And I'll give you a couple days to maybe respond. Of course, we're on social media. You know, Instagram's Pops Beef, Facebook Pops Beef. But I would say that those are the main ways to reach us or me. And we'd love to, you know, if nothing else, stop by for a sandwich when you're in Chicago.

Well, everybody that is in the, you know, Chicago area or the franchises in Indiana certainly do that. Those of you that aren't that close, please check out the website. Learn more about Pops Beef. This has been a fantastic conversation. Casey Dancy, COO Pops Beef. Everybody go to the website, check them out. We wish you exactly what you talked about, continued growth at Slowly and Properly. We wish you a really busy holiday season.

Sounds like you're going to have one. I hope your short-term goals work out just the way you want them so you get the operations improvement, the technology that you need, so that we can see more and more success with Pops Beef. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. I really appreciate it. Casey, thank you so much. And for everybody else, we hope you have a great rest of the day and come check us out again in another Corner Booth real soon.

Thank you for joining us on The Corner Booth. We'll be back next Tuesday with more inspiration, insights, and industry best practices to help you engage your team, delight your guests, and grow your business.