Part Two: Community Gardens: How People Take Land From the Rich to Feed Themselves - podcast episode cover

Part Two: Community Gardens: How People Take Land From the Rich to Feed Themselves

May 29, 202455 min
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Episode description

In part two, Margaret finishes talking with Kat Abu about the history of community gardening in New York City and elsewhere.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Cool Zone Media.

Speaker 2

Hello and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. I don't have a clever thing, so instead I'm drawing attention to the fact that I don't have my guest today is kinda boo. Hi cat, How are you, Margaret?

Speaker 3

I'm good. I'm relatively good.

Speaker 2

Wild Life updates between when we totally recorded this on a totally different day, not five minutes ago, yeah.

Speaker 3

Six hours. Oh yeah, it's totally different day because it's coming out on a different day. Anyways, I got laid off today, but I'm really enjoying hearing about community gardens and after this, I'm going to get a penia kolata.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, that's good.

Speaker 3

Yeah, if you come to DC, there's this place that has the best penia kolatas. Like it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1

You know, I haven't had it seen at Kilata in so long, But like you're saying, and I'm like, why haven't I that's so weird.

Speaker 3

Why haven't you. I'm a big fan. When I was like a bar tender, I was like really into whiskey and drink all these whiskey bands. And then after I stopped bartending, I was like, you know what, whiskey's great and I appreciate it and all this stuff, But what if I just drink really fun stuff, like really.

Speaker 2

Might as well.

Speaker 1

I recently just had Cosmopolitans are delightful, apple tinis. Prosecco goes with everything. Name one food that doesn't taste good with prossecco.

Speaker 3

I can't, I dare you. I simply cannot, Margaret, I dare you.

Speaker 2

I barely drink anymore. Well, it started because I started living rurally and so I had to drive everywhere. So I only drink at home because I don't drink and drive. And rural areas in this country are just designed for people to drink and drive. There's no way to go to a bar where I live without driving home after drinking. It's not Yeah, so if you live in a city like bars make sense to me in cities, and they don't make sense to me in the country. And I mean,

the answer is that everyone here just drinks. And but yeah, I refuse to all that education as a kid actually worked on me. I'm like the one person that dare worked for it. That's not true. I did a bunch of drugs when I was younger.

Speaker 3

Sorry, parents, we're living like drinking and driving for that not not condoning it at all. This is this is not a pro drinking drunk driving statement, but it's so much more empathetic to drive drunk in the suburbs, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like, I really do. You didn't have to do this, and people, you know, you can make as many conspiracies you want about fifteen minute cities. I live in a neighborhood where I can walk to everything and it's amazing, and I have transport

and all this shit. Guess what, I don't have to drive drunk. And I also don't have to go live in a house that has molding that's going to fall off within eight months.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Sorry, I hate suburbs so much.

Speaker 2

No, it's okay, because that's actually what we're going to talk about. First. You all are listening to part two of a two parter about community gardens, specifically around New York, although obviously we mostly talked about Detroit last time, because I love context and where we last left our heroes. We actually don't have any named heroes, but community gardens exist. Kat, I don't know if you knew this but overall, do you know that white Americans act kind of racistly? Wait

what I know? I know it's in data. I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't in data.

Speaker 3

Because what if the data is racist against white people? Do you think about that?

Speaker 2

It probably is. I'm white and I've never met anyone being racist.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that checks out.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's the least truth thing. Well, okay, the first half of that sentence was right, I am white because of social anyway. Whatever. Okay, So in the nineteen sixties and seventies, you've got what's known as white flight, when white people abandon the cities on moss and redlining and other explicitly racist property laws allowed white people better opportunities to leave cities and head for the suburbs throughout the fifties.

Often they relied on welfare to do this, because low cost mortgages were provided through the GI bill.

Speaker 3

I did not even think about that. Yeah, the true welfare.

Speaker 2

Queens, No, them meant farmers, honestly, Like, look, don't get me wrong, love me some farmers here and there. But if you are a farmer and then you complain about welfare of people in the cities, I got nothing nice to say to you. So cities were getting poor fast, which sped up the exodus of people who were able to leave again because of systemic racism. It's mostly white families that were able to leave. There was also a

social cause. In nineteen fifty eight, the social scientist named Morton Grodsen's said quote, once the proportions of non whites exceed the limits of the neighborhood's tolerance for interracial living, whites move out. Studies in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties showed that black Americans are fine with a fifty to fifty ethnic composition, but white people, the white people who were willing who checked the yes, I'm willing to live inter racially, were mostly only willing to do so

if they were still the majority. So it's like what we all kind of knew, we now have. Well, you know, for the past forty years, we've had data showing that white people are like, yeah, yeah, as long as there's only a couple people of color around them, chill, you know. So white people left the cities because suddenly there was no white people in the cities. Because the people were the white people were able to leave the cities because of a combination of welfare and racism, and with less

financial investment in the cities, the cities got poor. By the early nineteen seventies, there was something like ten thousand vacant lots in New York City that had become public property as a result of unpaid property taxes. So those are just the ones that were abandoned by people who stop paying taxes entirely. People started taking over and I'm going to talk about the squad and scene there sometime, but today is not that day. People started gardening the

lots and it started with a meeting. I think community organizing meetings have to be the biggest like discrepancy between how cool the stuff they get done is versus how boring it is to go to the meetings in all of history, or I'm too fidgety to sit through them. I'm not sure. I've been in a lot of meetings in my life. Often what you plan to do is very exciting, but it takes a certain kind of thinking to decide. The meeting itself is exciting. But this meeting.

You shouldn't be afraid of meetings, because this meeting in nineteen seventy three started a movement that has fed uncountable millions of people across the globe since it started. Because at this meeting, they started the Green Gorillas, which in turn started the modern community garden movement. I haven't have you ever heard of the Green Gorillas.

Speaker 3

No.

Speaker 2

I knew a lot about New York City community gardens from my time living there in the early aughts, but I didn't know as much about its origins.

Speaker 3

It sounds like a cute little school club.

Speaker 2

I know. They were really wholesome, they like, I mean, the Green Gorillas. Yeah, And that's the thing, is like people kind of whitewash a lot of the community garden history and they only started talking about when, like the Parks Department gets involved in stuff. But it's like wholesome. But it is like crime, and wholesome crime is like my whole vibe sometimes.

Speaker 1

So.

Speaker 2

In nineteen seventy three, a woman named Liz Christy, alongside others who aren't named because history likes to pick one person to single them out, called for a meeting but what to do about a vacant lot in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. She was tired of watching kids play in broken glass. She'd already seen three dead bodies carried out of the lot as people died of exposure

or violence. I actually looked up there's like basically a squatty museum and Lower East Side, and some of their photos and exhibition stuff is online and there's a photo of kids playing in one of these abandoned laws. It looks like a war zone. There's way more than I expected as someone who lived in New York in the early odds. So the neighbors got together and they were like,

we're going to garden this space. And they posted flyers in multiple languages because again that's the important thing to do, and they started raising funds for equipment, but mostly they ended up paying for everything out of their own pockets. They actually tried to do this properly. They talked to the city about their plans and they even paid for insurance, and the city was like, nah, you can't work this

property because you don't own it. And the people were like, hey, we were asking to be polite, we're going to do it anyway. And so they hauled out trash, they hauled in soil, and they split the place into lots for neighbors to have gardens. They called it the Bowery Houston Community Farm and Garden, And so the city came rushing in and was like, all right, if you're going to do it anyway, well, now we wanted to be proper

and have paperwork. They got a one month, one dollar a month lease from the city.

Speaker 3

That's like Planet Word over here in DC.

Speaker 2

Yeah, tell me about it.

Speaker 3

It's a this museum that's dedicated to like literature and linguistics and stuff like that, and it was founded by a second grade teacher. It just it's like one of the newest museums in the city. And she was a second grade teacher and then she married I think like Thomas Bridman and was like, let me use all this money for something good and created this really cool, like the most accessible museum I've ever been to that's all

about like how words formed. There's like this giant library where you can just pick the books off the shelves and sit there all day. It's pay what you wish. It's all donations, and it's in this old big schoolhouse in the middle of DC. And the city gave them a I think it's ten dollars a year rent for the next hundred years.

Speaker 2

Nice That next hundred years is a big important part of it, and it's going to come up a lot because they don't have this, these folks when they're getting their one dollar a month. That's cool. I really, I'm really spoiled. I grew up near DC, and so in my museums are free, and I don't understand the idea of paying for museums. It's like, I mean, I pay for it a lot out of my taxes. Like I should be done paying for it at that point.

Speaker 3

Is how I tend to always like explaining to people that, like, if I'm in Penn Quarter, I just go into the portrait gallery and hang out with my favorite painting for ten minutes. Like that's a completely impossible to like comprehend idea in pretty much everywhere else. Yeah, but yeah, go to planet where if you're in DC. It's just when I plug that real quick.

Speaker 2

That's cool. I honestly love museums and I'm going to go. Yes. So this park that they started, the first community garden of this style that was started in New York in nineteen seventy three. It's still around. It is now over an acre and it is renamed the Liz Christie garden, and they was renamed that nineteen eighty five after Liz died of cancer. Twenty gardeners still work there, maintaining mature

trees and ponds of fish and turtles and shit. But it's never enough with these hippies, right, they saved one vacant lot, and now they're trying to save all the other vacant lots in the city. When will they read these people? I know, I know. So they started the Green Gorillas, and sometimes they ask for permission from the city,

but quite famously, they often didn't. If you ever want to read a one sentence description of their tactics, it's usually they went around throwing condoms full of tomato seeds over fences into empty lots.

Speaker 3

Awesome, I'm guessing that tied up.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I assume so too. It's an oversimplification. They usually used water balloons or Christmas ornaments, which I'll be sleeve would work better. These are called seed bombs. And now I'm going to go on a long tangent and talk about seed bombs because they're fucking cool. Fuck. Yes, seed bombs are fucking cool. It's written into the script. Most of the time they're made from compost clay and seeds, and they're developed. According to everything you'll read about them,

they're developed from an ancient Japanese practice. And if I see a lot of articles that say in ancient Japanese practice without sources, I'm going to side eye the shit out of that. They were rediscovered in nineteen thirty eight by a Japanese gardener who seems pretty cool, and so it is a practice that has come out of Japan and might be ancient. The guy who reinvented them, his

name was Masanobo Fukuoka. And in the West, you've got these early organic moves, like he's doing this stuff at the early twentieth century, right, and that's before the organic mat movement really kicks off. It's during this period where everyone's like, we want to turn agriculture into industry because we're really excited about destroying the entire world. And so one of the Western version of hey, what if we didn't do that was this Austrian guy who invented biodynamic

farming named Rudolph Steiner, and he's real fucking strange. His thing is organic farming meets wingnut religious stuff, and it is considered one of the antecede into the modern organic farming movement. Have you ever heard of this stuff?

Speaker 4

No?

Speaker 3

But I love things that sound insane, and this sounds insane.

Speaker 2

Yeah. There's like stuff like, in order to grow certain food, you'll like take an animal manure and put it into a horn of an animal and then you'll bury it for like a month under the right phase of the moon, and then you dig it up and then you use that as fertilizer. Yes, and it's kind of cool, honestly, Like I can't actually hate it. I just stayed on a biodynamic farm in Finland when I was anyway whatever.

But it's like it's also like not always great in a lot of ways, and it's like not particularly scientific. So the Japanese antecedent to the organic farming movement seems cooler overall and has had a little bit more staining power. Japan seemed pretty head in terms of alternative agriculture. Masanobu was an early advocate of stuff that's becoming more popular today,

like no till farming and organic farming. He called his method and do nothing farming, and basically he was like, what if we don't do any work, doesn't that seem like a better way to live, and I can't argue with him. He was a scientist who had a religious experience that made him be like, I think Western agriculture is no good, which is true. At first, he kind of tried to go like a little bit too far. He was like, well, what if I just don't even

prune the tree? And then he was like, oh shit, insects are fucking it up and all the things and doesn't make his good fruit, and so he has to do like a little bit of cultivation. But he did a lot of no till farming of rice and barley. His most famous book is called The One Straw Revolution, and it doesn't work necessarily for feeding people at scale, but it is a really interesting concept. He traveled around the world with his life.

Speaker 3

Wait, I want to hear about those So I don't know.

Speaker 2

Enough about no till farming, yet I'm like starting to learn more about that stuff, even just through my own gardening and things like that. Basically, like people are more and more starting to say, like instead of having like these carefully cultivated plots where you only plant the one plant and then you have to like water it constantly, if you use like the right kind of cover crop and all these things. Things can take care of themselves a little bit more and then like you can do

a lot of stuff without tilling. I don't know enough about it yet. Cool, but yeah, he I don't know. It's interesting. I fell down a rabbit hole about it, and I've like read about it a whole bunch before, but I like don't feel like I'm an expert at at any any level. And so with his life, he traveled around the world trying to do cool shit, like you vegetate deserts that were expanding and things like that, and he just like did that. He went on to do it until he died at the age of ninety

five in two thousand and eight. He's enough of like a interesting and wing nutty guy that I'm like waiting to find out that he's like some terrible you know, there's like something going on, but I I'm not aware of it yet. And he was into seed bombs. You throw him everywhere you see what grows up on its own. The classic seedball is five parts clay to one part seeds. You dry it out and then you toss it somewhere

and then the seeds may or may not stick. When I was a baby activist, gorilla gardening was all the rage and all the big protests would regularly have like seed bomb workshops the day before so people could toss seeds into abandoned lots along the march routes.

Speaker 3

Wait, oh my god, I just realized, like the gorilla garden in New York, that's not gorilla, like the animal. I was like, that's a green gorilla.

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 3

I was like, that's so cute. It's like green gorilla is like an elementary school club. Okay, nevermind, Sorry, so embarrassing.

Speaker 2

All good. So these days you can buy seed bombs and stores or like on Etsy or whatever, and honestly, I'm not mad about that because as long as you remember, you can make them yourself. On my fortieth birthday, my family came out to my property and we had a big bag of seed bombs that they had bought of like wildflowers, and we just like stood on my porch and through seed bombs as far as we could. It's a very nice way to spend an afternoon and just

for fun. And by that I mean because I want people to make their own seed bombs, although don't do it exactly this way because it involves a little bit of glittering. I'm going to read from the Green Gorillas fact sheet that they circulated about how to make the seed bombs that they made. You take an ornament, you take pelletized time release fertilizer, peat moss, crumbs, tissue, and seeds.

You start with the seeds in the fertilizer, then you add wet peat moss, and then you stop it up with tissue, and then quote choose a lot that has a fence and is legally inaccessible. Calculate in advance how many grenades will be needed to cover the area. Check carefully before throwing, observe all normal safety precautions. Suggested throwing techniques are for Christmas ornaments and underhand throw. For water balloons,

use an overhand throw. And then they have a list at the bottom of suggested seeds based on the season, mostly flowers, sometimes grass or soybeans. And they just went around and flour bombed New York.

Speaker 3

Awesome.

Speaker 2

The Green Gorillas coined the term gorilla gardening. Gorilla gardening is one of the clearest and most beautiful examples of direct action. It's a protest tactic that highlights a problem, but does so by directly addressing that problem. Basically, gorilla gardening is when people, without asking permission, go out and plant gardens. Sometimes these are carefully constructed and maintained gardens, whether for beauty or food or both. Sometimes you apparently

throw a condom full of seeds over a fence. Don't do that, by a way, unless you find biodegradable condoms, which.

Speaker 3

I say, what if there are biodegradeab all condoms, in.

Speaker 2

Which case, probably don't trust them for reproductive health. I don't know. They'd be kind of cool if people figure that out. It's also an example of a protest tactic that is easily recuperated. When I was younger and living in the Netherlands, I knew all these graph kids and they consciously refused to do murals and like graffiti art because the city was using legal graft style murals to

attract tourists and gentrify the city. So the kids only tagged because it didn't raise property values and it didn't lead to the displacement of squatters and low income homeowners and residents. Basically, they were like, we're going to fight gentrification by fucking up the city. Visually. But I went back eight years later and those same folks, who I could no longer call kids at this point, were doing beautiful street art. They were still squatters and anarchists, but

they had changed their perspective on this issue. I asked one guy what changed, and he shrugged and he was like, ah, I grew up. I wanted to make something pretty. And that's just a tension that is going to exist whenever people take direct action to beautify their environments. But what isn't attention is the tension of running an anti capitalist podcast sponsored by capitalist products. I feel no tension whatsoever, she said, while lying.

Speaker 3

Everyone knows Margaret loves ads. She's always saying I love ads, are my favorite thing in the world. They call her Margaret ad lover killjoy.

Speaker 2

I know, and I'm always trying to interject them now into regular conversation. I'll be like talking to my friends and I'll be like, but you know who else watched this TV show? Here's some ads, And then they stare at me because I know, yeah, and I don't read the ads, so they just stare at me, and as I wait a little while and we're back. So it's complicated, but I am one hundred percent pro gorilla gardening. It's just not without complicated knock on effects like community gardening itself.

In nineteen seventy three, the Green Gorillas got their start, the gardeners expanded like wild and the Green Gorillas were working eighty four gardens by nineteen seventy five. They intentionally went around and taught everyone how to do what they were doing and helped new gardens do surveys and get plants. By nineteen eighty six, they had two hundred and fifty volunteers. By nineteen ninety one, they were working four hundred and fifty gardens out of the about seven hundred gardens total

in the city. It wasn't all just peaceful and non destructive. Bolt cutters were as much a part of their Arsenal's paperwork was those kind of this thing, we're in retrospect because all this is very above board, and the Parks Department runs it now, and so everyone's like wacky, like they threw some seeds around and doesn't like to talk about like the crime and property destruction part of it,

as if they're ashamed of that was. I think it's part of what made it cool in nineteen seventy eight, the Parks Department started to step in more formally, seeing how popular all this shit was. And I don't want to necessarily say that the people at the Parks Department were being opportunistic or that their goal was recuperation, because I think that all of these people were looking for ways to try and make it last, right. You know, when you have a squatted space, you're waiting for the

cops to come and take it from you. And so they wanted to work with the city. But of course the Parks Department's involvement has in some ways sheltered and in some ways imperiled many of these gardens. The Green Gorillas were anxious to get formal recognition so that the gardens could survive bureaucracy, and it sort of worked. In nineteen seventy eight, this Parks Department started its Green Thumb program,

originally called Operation Green Thumb. And there's no space between green and Thumb, but there is between operation and green and that annoys me.

Speaker 3

You wanted it to be one ward, No.

Speaker 2

I probably want a space between all of it, honestly, But.

Speaker 3

If it's all one word, all ower case, that's tallicized MM hmm yeah, okay, letter underlined. Uh then it's just pussy and bio but about gardens. Yeah, and I hope that.

Speaker 2

One day someone's going to hear this five years from now, no fucking clue what that reference was, and.

Speaker 3

Just especially someone who's like thirteen right now, and they like, they're like, I don't even know what twitter is.

Speaker 2

Yeah, iesssics if they only that sounds a basic I know. Most community gardens that go legit go through Green Thumb. The Green Thumb license agreement with these gardens is quote terminable at will by the Commissioner in his or her discretion, at any time upon sixty days written notice. And the licensee shall have no recourse of any nature whatsoever by reason of such termination.

Speaker 3

And this is about the gardens that feed people. Okay, So these things they want to sound like super villains. I know, I know they're like, Hey, this thing that's been around for thirty years that everyone is like, yeah, if we want to turn into a music venue, we'll get into that later. It was an example where they're like, what have we just turned into a music venue?

Speaker 2

And fuck you? You know, enter our first real villain of the week. Mayor Rudy Giuliani. What a villain. I know, I kept thinking he's dead. I know he's not.

Speaker 3

He's shilling some like shitty coffee right now. And also he peed on a hot mic he did, mike. Yeah, like he was in a zoom call and he still let his microphone on when he went to go pee, and you can hear him pete.

Speaker 2

He's a winner.

Speaker 3

He's so hot, you know, as he's as in.

Speaker 1

He's literally melting and the flush is coming off.

Speaker 3

Exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's really brave of him to be a sentient wax figure.

Speaker 2

I'm surprised that centient wax figures need to be urinate. Honestly. That's probably the reason he did it, is there's too many rumors that he was a sentient wax figure.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and so like he didn't actually even piss.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it was like it was a setup play to sound effect.

Speaker 3

Yeah, he hired someone else that he hired a task grab, a person to come in.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean a lot of people hire people about pe. Usually it's a different yeah.

Speaker 3

And you know that's fine.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So I'm not sure whether that was a sex work reference or a smoking weed reference. But I made it either way. So if you google America's mayor, you get fucking Rudy Giuliani. I, however, much prefer mister Potato man, who had tried to clean up Detroit by cracking down on corruption and monopoly, to Rudy Juliani.

Speaker 3

We should make him America's mare again.

Speaker 2

I agree. What was his name again, Pingree? I remember it was his first name.

Speaker 3

Okay, it was something kind of silly.

Speaker 2

I know, it was like brazen, but it wasn't. And it's like, yeah, it was like.

Speaker 3

A like a white guy name, but like he could be like kind of a fun character and historical movie.

Speaker 2

Anyways, Yeah, I like him more. Rudy Giuliani is like the inverse of this man. Rudy Giuliani wanted to clean up New York City by opening it for business and has been investigated for corruption and profiteering, the kind of thing that you know, Pingree spent his life fighting against. Giuliani was elected in nineteen ninety three. He too was a Republican, just the modern version where you suck. He too was raised working class. His father was an Italian

mafia man. This is the broken Windows mare. If you brutally crack down on minor infractions like graffiti, turnstile jumping, loitering, et cetera. Somehow that stops all the murder and robbery and shit. I lived in New York City during his reign, and I had friends spent three days in jail for like hopping turnstiles or getting caught with a joint on them. The idea is that if someone sees a broken window, they figure it's not a place where the law is enforced,

so you can kind of do whatever you want. I mostly I used to hop turnstyles all the time, and it was like fucking crazy adrenaline rush because I was like, if I get caught, I'm gonna spend three days in jail just to save like a dollar fifty or whatever. I wasn't. I wasn't the smartest person when I was younger, like cost benefit analysis, poor whatever. I also believe that it's lush every day. It would keep you young.

Speaker 3

I mean, you said your fortieth birthday something earlier, and I was like, I had no idea you were forty.

Speaker 2

Yeah, okay, so and adrenaline russia day keeps aging away. That's in some cases, Yeah, maybe you're just special. There's this whole thing where people talk about how like punk Stone age, But I think it's because we stay dressed subcultural. Now. It is true that during his reign, crime went down significantly in New York, but so did crime in all the major cities nationwide. When this policy ended in twenty fourteen,

there was no statistically significant effect on major crime. Broken window theory is a crackdown on loitering, not on property that you leave derelict. Rudy Giuliani fucking hated the community gardens because he wanted development. Most of the community gardens were on city owned property, and he wanted to buldoze the green space to build housing.

Speaker 1

None of that is surprising religion. Being like I hate planned is like okay.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, no totally, Like he's just a bastard. He just sucks.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I would actually love a bastard's episode about him.

Speaker 2

Who would be good for that.

Speaker 1

I'll make a note, h.

Speaker 2

Sometimes articles will talk about how he wanted to buldoze these gardens to build low income housing. This is a lie. It's even a lie to say that he claimed he wanted it. He was really blunt in nineteen ninety nine and in January on like a radio show. He said, this is a free market economy. The era of communism is over, and by that he I mean one like, you know, the Soviet Union had collapsed. But I think he's also specifically being like this era of these community

gardens just doing communism like whatever. In January nineteen ninety nine, one hundred and fourteen gardens were put up for auction by this city with the intention of selling the land to developers. And when they would sell it to the land to developers, it was not to build low income housing. It was eighty percent market rate housing and twenty percent

moderate income housing. I saw this myself a few years later while I was living in a squad in the Bronx, and it was the squad was run by an Indigenous run nonprofit had been around since I think the mid eighties. We are in a tenement building surrounded by project buildings. The city wanted to bulldoze the building to put in market rate housing that would have a few low income units as available as well, which would massively increase the

overall cost of living in the area. So they wanted to gentrify that area by bulldozing a squat to build quote unquote low income housing, most of which was market rate, and then in two thousand and four they burned the squat down to get the squatters out because we kept tying them up in the courts, and once it was burned down then there was no thing to fight about legally anymore. But that's a different story that I don't have. I was just there. I don't know. I haven't looked

up the details a very long time. Fuck those twenty years ago, I feel old. Whatever. So one hundred and fourteen community gardens were put up for auction without doing a round of community input, like they're supposed to fucking do lip service to, you know, when they pretend like they care what the community has to say, so they like community meetings and everyone can wait to say they're like bit to city council and then get ignored. You know. Yeah, they didn't bother even doing that.

Speaker 3

That's so rude, I know.

Speaker 2

But the movement stepped the fuck up during that auction, and we we win this one. You could say, I'm gonna make a pop culture reference, Sophie. You could say that the community was the wind beneath the movement's wings. It's a Betty Middler joke, totally modern pop culture. That's what I'm doing here.

Speaker 4

Hello, dear listener, Yes, I heard it too, and fear not, Margaret has been informed of the correct pronunciation of Bette Midler's name. No need to come after her on the internet. Enjoy the rest of the episode.

Speaker 2

Goodbye, that's your reference.

Speaker 1

I was like, is Margaret gonna like name drop Arianna Grande?

Speaker 2

What's happening? No? No, I'm gonna name drop someone who hasn't been relevant to anyone besides like an old person sometimes getting confused by modern activist language and saying the wrong thing and then having everyone get mad, but is still a good person. Betty Midler wrote a song called the Wind Beneath My Wings or Your Wings or whatever. The fuck. I don't know. She's a singer, she's great. I don't know if she's great as a singer or not. It's not my cup of tea, but she fucking saved

the day along with some other people. She had been a New York City activist for decades. At that point, she was heavily involved a supporting game end during the AIDS crisis. In nineteen ninety five, she founded the New York Restoration Project a trust which went to that auction and bought sixty of the one hundred and fourteen community gardens and put them into a trust. And a trust is a way more secure thing than the green Thumb program with like the month a month leases and shit

like that. I think Middler herself put millions of dollars into that. Another fifty two were purchased by another trust. The total cost of buying a one hundred and twelve out of one hundred and fourteen was like four point two million or something. That people raised, and these are probably still the most legally protected community gardens in New York City, the ones that are in these trusts.

Speaker 3

That makes me very happy.

Speaker 2

I know Juliani, though, would not be deterred, so he put another six hundred up for auction, and I lose track of the ins and outs of each garden at this point. Many of them ended up bulldozed, many of them ended up being saved, and a lot of that saving wasn't just rich philanthropists, which is don't get me wrong, thank you, Betty Midler. One group that was involved in that fight was a Puerto Rican direct action and squatters group called Charis, which is an acronym for the first

initials of its founders. They squatted a place with some former Black Panthers in nineteen seventy nine, and then they left it in exchange for being given a different building. Basically, the city was like, oh, fuck, not that one here. Do you want this empty schoolhouse instead? And they're like, yes, we'll take this empty school whose which they built into the Elboheo Community Center, which means the Hut. It is a five story former public school. That community center they

ran as a community center. They taught classes, they lent out bicycles, they offered meeting space. A ton of local theater companies practiced in that space for years. In nineteen ninety eight, a Giuliani supporter bought it for three point one five million dollars and then didn't do anything with it, and it is still empty as of twenty twenty two.

Speaker 3

I'm gonna throw it.

Speaker 2

However, during the auction, a group called Jiminy Cricket released ten thousand live crickets into the auditorium at the police Place.

Speaker 3

Awesome, Okay, that's great.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And Charis fought for community gardens. One of the founders was this guy named Armando per who was born in Puerto Rico, moved to New York when he was younger. If you want to hear a whole bunch of really amazing stuff that Puerto Rican New York New Aurekans that I think they would call themselves got up to. We did a four parter our first four part about the

Young Lord's movement that did amazing things. Armando Perez was murdered in nineteen ninety nine in a murder that people tend to assume was a political hit because of his fight against development. It's also possible that he was killed by some folks who are dealing drugs that he confronted about dealing drugs, which apparently would have been in character

for him too. The most telling line in the New York Times article about his death is quote, because mister Perez had been drinking, the police did not initially treat his death as a homicide. Fuck, yeah, is this bad? Yeah?

Speaker 3

It's just bad. Also means cops, I have no numbers on this, but like, there have to be a sick in a number of people when homicides happen that are drunk on both sides.

Speaker 2

Right, Yeah, I would I would presume a majority of people who kill and or are killed in fights. Yeah, I assume alcohol is involved in an awful lot of these things, right, Yeah, And so for it was like months before they found anyone and started like the police found anyone and started like reporting on it at all. And I think that they like went and tracked some people down because of people starting to be like, y'all put a hit on him, And it's possible that that happened.

It's also possible that he was confronting. He apparently was known for trying to convince people that they should not be dealing drugs on the project building where his wife lived. But La Plaza Cultural de Amando Perez is one community garden that's still around in the East Village and it's named after him. Charis first started that garden in nineteen seventy six. It wasn't named after him. To start, it was like all the groups coming together to start that garden.

You had the green gorilla seed bombing it for them, and Charis was like really into geodesic domes. This is some seventy shit that you probably had to be there, right.

Speaker 3

I fell into like a rabbit hole about geodesic domes yesterday.

Speaker 2

Oh amazing.

Speaker 3

There's like a whole thing of like there's like a I was on the off grid living Stubreddit and there's like a whole thing just about like various things you can do with geodesic domes. I didn't know they went back that far.

Speaker 2

Buckminster Fuller showed, who's the guy who like popularized them, showed up personally to help them build one on this garden when it was not legal, and when was that nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 3

I thought these were like a thing that started in like the night. That's crazy.

Speaker 2

No, see yah, some hippie shit. Yeah, that's so sick. Yeah, no, it's it's it's cool. And like I remember actually during Occupy there was some I was part of Occupy Santa Cruz and those people who are like really into geodesic domes. There's so they like built one as they like place in the occupation and stuff. It was cool. I like don't get it, but I think it's cool when people have liked their thing, and I just get really excited for them, you know, Yeah, and I want to hear

more about it. Yeah, the fights to defend all these community gardens in the nineties and the early aughts were creative, theatrical and confrontational, which was the style at the time. It's kind of the stuff that built into I'm sure there are other things that built into it, but it built into the alter anti globalization movement of the late nineties and early aughts, which set up a ton of the protest culture around the world that we still have today.

All of the like horizontal direct action, like theatrical protest movement stuff that's been going on all over the world. A lot of that comes from the anti globe era stuff, and this stuff immediately preceded that and then tied into it. And it just makes me happy that it like when I find these like lineages that then carry all over the world. There's an article about this particular fight written

by Civil Eats in twenty twenty two. Quote. At the height of the protests, as a city was preparing to bulldoze the East Village's Esperanza Garden, organizers built a structure shaped like a cookie, a small tree, frog, and a cultural symbol of Puerto Rico, with enough room for five people, so we slept in it every night, said Bill de Payola, a longtime community organizer amid a court battle to prevent

the auctioning of gardens. He recalls how the city bulldozed the land in two thousand and one with the help of the police, forcing out one hundred protesters. And so they did all of this, like civil disobedience and all these things to try and protect these While they were also working in the courts, the green guerrillas would like dress up as vegetables and raid city hall. Folks kept

starting new gardens. One of the best articles about all of this was written by an anarchist journalist named Brad Will who was and it was written in I want to say these articles written in two thousand and one and two thousand and six. Brad Will was murdered by the Mexican government while covering the teachers uprising in Ohaka in two thousand and six. He filmed his own death, he wrote down at the Fifth Street squat, which I

think is where he was living at the time. We cleared out the adjacent lot of rubble, drunk carts, piss, bottles, and rot. We started a green space. The neighborhood kids ran wild between the fragile beds. The nuns from the Cambrini old folks Home came across the street to praise

our goodly green emergence. The year before they had been lobbying for our viction like because so basically, the nuns didn't like the squad and then they opened a garden and now the nuns are like, hey, these squaders are cool. He went and taught Earth First blockade techniques to the gardeners at the Chico Mendez Mural Garden and they set up barricades and they named it Fort Chico. It was eventually bulldozed. Activists were doing things like chaining themselves across

the street. And it was like all of these techniques that have been developed and forced defence and by Earth First brought into community garden defense in the middle of one of the densest cities in the country. And it, I don't know, makes me happy. Because in two thousand and two the movement one again, sort of four hundred or five hundred gardens depending on your source were transferred into the Green Thumb program, while one hundred and fifty

were developed. And I have no clean and clever transition from this sentence into an ad and yet I'm doing it anyway, because now here's ads and we're back. So basically what happened is right. So these four hundred five hundred gardens are now part of that Green Thumb program, and this is the one where it's like a month a month lease where they can get fucked over at any time. But it still was the like they were

about to all be destroyed. And now they're like, oh, it's like safe until we specifically come up with reasons why we want the land, you know. Yeah, And the Green Thumb gardens are precarious. Disaster capitalism, for example, took out a Coney Island community garden. It had been running for years and having green space actually mitigated some of

the worst flooding from Hurricane Sandy in twenty twelve. That it destroyed a whole bunch of that area well, and it buried the storm buried it Undersand I wonder if they knew that when they named it Sandy. Anyway, the storm, the community came together immediately and restored the garden, and then the mayor was like, yeah, but what if we put a music venue here? And the gardeners watched their work bulldozed in twenty thirteen. The death cycle of the

community garden is the cycle of gentrification. An area gets poor and is neglected and often winds up trashed. Community residents clean up that trash and beautify the neighborhood, which invites new wealthier residents, which displaces people who cleaned up the neighborhood. Eventually, the property is too valuable to leave vacant, and the people who move there because of gardens are

no longer there. This is the cycle we see. Like, you know, artists move to a place because it's affordable, and then richer artists move there, and then all the artists have to leave and whatever, you know, to quote Robert Gottlieb, writing for the MIT Press, quote in a neoliberal age, private property, Trump's community benefits once private owners and sometimes public entities decide that the land value has improved, often due to the community gardens, and that development can proceed.

Gardens are plowed under, even when developments are then postponed, with the former gardens sometimes reverting to public land, and of course recuperation comes for us. All there's now a real estate company that I'm not going to name that. In twenty fourteen, trademarked the term agrihoods for agricultural neighborhoods, and then I need you to unsay that. Thank you,

thank you, thank you, yep. For the low cost of half a million bucks or five million bucks, in the right neighborhood, you can buy a house around a centrally planned farm with composting in solar panels. Isn't that exciting?

Speaker 3

You can just do that, you know, you could just do that with I was saying five million dollars.

Speaker 2

The next sentence in my script is, honey, I used to live in a solar powered cabin with composting toilets. That cost me about five thousand dollars. And it annoys me because the idea of an agrihood is a good one. It is closer to the way that humans develop to live. And there are like people trying to do this but good.

There's a nonprofit that runs an agricultural neighborhood in Detroit where the meati the in home value is under twenty five thousand dollars and is run by a guy born and raised in the neighborhood whose grandmother lived in that neighborhood.

People living there share tools and can harvest whatever they want from the farm once a week, and that's like the tech billionaires get all the stuff that we should all just have, that we develop as ways to live despite being poor, and then they're like, oh, we want all that stuff. It seems classy and interesting, like all the fucking boho chic stuff, which whatever I mean it. I'm not above like making farmhouse style furniture because you

can make it out of two by four us. But I guess I am above paying ten thousand dollars for farmhouse style furniture. Yeah, that sounds right, ten thousand dollars. Furniture should be old as shit and really interesting in card with ornate, weird scenes. That's my one day. I'm going to start an interior design show and no one will listen to it, but I'll be happy.

Speaker 3

I think it'll be a really great counterweight to Chip and Joanna Gains. Yeah that is Oh wait, sorry I got I'm like I got.

Speaker 2

The response trans later. Yeah. Please. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And it will be original, that's the thing. It'll be original and goth.

Speaker 3

It won't be the people that do all of the barn doors.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it will be the same house over and over and over again. There won't be barn doors. A big clock and a sign that says, yeah, basically gray floors. Gray floors.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, but they were all you said gray not great.

Speaker 3

Okay, yeah, it was like great gray floors not great.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah yeah, because a great floor system, but it shouldn't be gray. You can get a nice It's.

Speaker 1

This Magpie, really Magpie really knows how to pick like a faucet fixture and like cool mirrors and like, I don't know, don't you have like a swan fawcet fixture or something fantom?

Speaker 2

Yeah, all my sinks. I put in black Swans as the fawcet fixtures, including the like weird basement bathroom that's covered in graffiti that when people come over, I like hand them paint markers until them to because I you know whatever. Anyway, Yeah, I really like interior decorating.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I'm redecorating right now with Facebook Marketplace, and it's hell improved my space so well that.

Speaker 2

Is the only good thing left about Facebook, or maybe it was the only good thing ever.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Like I don't use Facebook at all. I actually had to create an account to use Facebook Marketplace. Yeah, that's all I use it for is Facebook Marketplace. I got this bang and chair, this ikea like prolong chair or whatever for you know, good price. Just picked it up from a roll that was moving, and now it's my cat's favorite for best friend.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, that is you can have nice stuff by doing things with people instead of whatever. I'm supposed to tie this into a.

Speaker 3

People that can afford it by it and then you know, you give it to someone else instead of throwing it out.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And so as of last year, there's still five hundred and fifty community gardens in New York City, seven hundred school gardens, seven hundred gardens on public housing, and one hundred gardens in the land trusts. And that's fucking cool. And that is because of the work that people did for years, but especially in the late nineties and the

early odds. It's the people who dressed up like tomatoes and ran into city Hall, the people who released crickets, the people who locked down to things, the people who wrote hit songs that you all don't appreciate and then donated money. And the gardens still exist and they still do essential work. For example, rather than shut down during COVID despite being ordered to, gardeners formed the Bronx Community Farm Hubs to grow and donate food to places that

needed it. They gave away forty three thousand pounds of food in twenty twenty, then one hundred and sixty two thousand pounds of food, and twenty twenty one then they also just started feeding people, but then Green Thumb shut them down for that because they were like, couldn't social distance properly or whatever, even though it's all outside and they regularly donate to community fridges. Also, I know, it's just like I love these legacy projects that are still

around because of the work that people did. These gardens help compost the city's waste. The governor recently cut all the compost programs funding, but a private, anonymous donation kept it going. I assume, as Betty Midler, the nonprofit Grow NYC runs fifty two food drop offs and composts eight

point three million pounds of organic waste every year. And I don't know there's You could also tie this story back to Detroit, where their entire urban farms that grew up after white flight and the oil crisis left the city derelict. And one day we'll talk about them too, but we're not going to talk about today because today we're out of script. I'm at the end of it, because I did the thing that I was going to do and now it's the end of this episode.

Speaker 3

And that's what I loved hearing aboutmmunity gardens. I learned a lot, and I think that there's be more of them, and I'm going to try to figure out ways to actively get involved in one nearby me.

Speaker 2

Hell yeah, yeah, no. I if I lived in the city at this point, I would absolutely be looking for this kind of thing because it's fucking cool and it's you know, they're not always like a lot of them are open to the public and that you can like go and walk around like being the pretty ones or whatever, but like you know, they're often people working specific plots and you can't necessarily just like immediately start having one. But they're worth defending and being involved with. But what

else is worth being involved with is your content. In the plugs section of the episode.

Speaker 3

You can find my YouTube channel and my TikTok online it's kat m aboo abu like a monkey in Aladdin. I also have other social media. You can find it on a link tree because there are so many and they have different names. Additionally, I just got laid off from media matters. I'm good, but I have a lot of really great colleagues that are looking for work and if we have funds for them in the future, I'll

make sure to keep you all updated on that. So please keep an eye out and follow them and hire them if you have a job that's open.

Speaker 2

Hell yeah, And I'm on a bunch of things. You can follow me on Instagram Marder Kiljoy. You can follow me on ex at Magpie Killjoy and oh god, I just said X and ironically.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I was like, wow, that was really impressive. I don't know, it's an impressive derogatory.

Speaker 2

No, it's yeah, brains wormed me so. But more importantly, I have a book coming out this fall in September twenty fourth from Feminist Press. It's called The Sapling Cage and it's a young adult book about transwitch who saves the world from a magical enclosure of the commons. It does not don't worry, it does not say a magical inclues the comments anywhere in the book. I'm it's more fun than that. And it is being kickstartered in June of twenty twenty four. And if you look up The

Sapling Cage Margaret Kiljoy or whatever. I'm sure you can figure out how to find the kickstarter page and you can sign up there to get information about when that kickstarter lunches so you can get copies of it. And I'm really excited about it's the best book I've ever written, and I have written a good number of books, and so that's saying something. Well, I don't know. I mean, all my books could be trash, but I think they're good.

And Sophie, you got anything like, is there any new podcasts coming out from her network?

Speaker 1

Yeah, we got two relatively new podcasts. One is Better Offline, hosted by ed Zitron. It's a weekly sometimes twice weekly podcast about the tech world and why it's so fucked up and how it impacts everybody's lives. The other is a podcast hosted by my best friend Jamie Loftist called Sixteenth Minute of Fame weekly podcast.

Speaker 3

It looks back at some.

Speaker 1

Of the Internet's main characters and how their viral moments affected their lives and our lives. So, if you haven't listened already, we have two really great episodes that just just came out recently about the dress that was white and gold. Sorry, and about the Boston slide.

Speaker 2

Cop Oft slid down the slide.

Speaker 1

And went off walk and then it went as all over the internet and it's a really great episode and it's super interesting to check that out.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I listened to both those podcasts. I like everything cool Zone Media does. I know that, and you know that I'm not chilling because when I have to say ads, I look like someone just hit me in the face. But I actually like all cool Zone Media's content. And better offline is Angry Tech podcast and nothing that Jamie Loftis records as bad and this one's particularly good. So next week you can hear more Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff by listening to it. That's all I got.

Speaker 3

Yay Yay.

Speaker 1

Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

Speaker 3

For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

Speaker 1

Coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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