>> Charlie: So, after chatting with Tom for the episode, and, spoiler alert, hearing him talk highly about nitrates and in particular Beatit sport products, I wanted to get in touch with the team at Beatit Sports to find out a bit more about the brand. And so, at the end of this episode, you can listen to me chat with Jonathan Cartwright from Beet It Theyve also kindly sponsored this episode of the Cook Eat Run
podcast with X Miles. Listen in for a discount code to save across the whole of the ex miles range of nutrition products, including the Beatit Sport range. Welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X Miles. On the podcast today, I'm chatting with Tom Hollis about nitrates, beetroot and whether they can improve running performance. Tom Hm is an ICU dietitian and has worked for the NHS previously for ten years. Registered sport
dietitian and super fast runner. In fact, he won the Milton Keys marathon over the weekend. Tom, how are you doing? >> Tom Hollis: Hi, Charlie. Yeah, I'm very good, thank you. obviously, the day after a marathon, you're not at, tip top condition, but I am buzzing because I did not go into that, race expecting it to win it. I knew there was an outside chance, like one in ten, one in 20, but, yeah, really pleased. >> Charlie: So it was quite quiet on social media that you
were even running? The first I saw of it was a little, hey, whoops, I won more later. so was that an intentional keeping it quiet, take the pressure off, or was it a last minute decision to run? >> Tom Hollis: Both. So, yes, it was a very deliberate decision to keep it much more low key in terms of social media, even telling family and friends, because what I think, just to give it some context, I did
London marathon 15 days before that. and, I, would normally say doing two marathons in the space of 15 days at, 100% effort is not optimal, because I'm also a learning coach and it's not necessarily something that I would advise my runners to do routinely. but, I have a very specific goal for London to run 229. I was quite confident of doing that. Leading into it, training had gone well, and I talked a lot on social media about how I was going for it. All my family and friends knew I was going
through some really specific goals. And because in the years leading up to it, even if I have doubts, I pretty much always ended up with what I wanted from races. So I think everyone around me just assumed that every single time I would hit whatever target it was that I was going for. And I've had so many messages of people saying, you'll smash it, oh, you'll definitely get it, blah,
blah, blah. and loads on social media. And whilst everyone means well, and I really do appreciate the messages, I think it just loaded a bit more pressure on me that I didn't need when, actually, I just needed to be a bit more focused on the goal. And as you well know, on a marathon day, anything can happen to just slightly knock you off course. My heart rate was really high in the day, and I just don't think I was quite at 100% or have been since,
to be totally honest. because marathons hit your immune system quite hard. Anyway, I ended up, less than a minute off my goal. So 2 hours 30 and 54. And I know everyone says it's an amazing time, I know it's a good time, and I'm lucky to be able to run those talents, but it wasn't quite what I set out for. so then hatched a plan with my own coach, Chris, to do Milton Keene's marathon 15 days later, with serious downtime. In the meantime, we aim to get an England vest, which is a
concept. Ah, that was new to me. so, basically, once you get to the masters age categories of v 35, v 40, and beyond, all the way up to at least v 70, I believe you can now, for each race distance, there are about, three or four qualifying races that year where if you get in the top three in your age category, you then qualify for an England vest. So you get to wear a vest saying you're representing England at, that distance at the low end race later in the year. So London
marathon was one of the qualifying marathons. And obviously, it's pretty hard to get the top three there. Milton Keynes was one of the other ones. And so I never considered it, but quite a spontaneous decision to just do it. And, so that was my own, was to get top three v 35s. Cause I'm clinging on to the b 35 group for another two months on v 40 in July. and, I
knew that was a high chance. I knew there was an outside chance of overall podium looking at the previous year's results, and I did not expect to win the whole thing, but, I did, and it was a lot of fun. it was a very, very tough course. So times went out the window. Everyone faded really, really hard. But, for me, I was able to fade slightly less hard than everyone else and pick my way to the front. So it was really. It was good fun in invert cons.
>> Charlie: Yeah, I mean, having done back to back marathons twice, it's not something for the faint hearted. It's. I found my two weeks post Boston going for a five k tricky. So how did you. How did the mindset flip from or when did you decide after London. Right, let's go for this. And how did you kind of change your mindset from like. Right, that was about a gold time. This is about a placing.
>> Tom Hollis: so yeah, just the whole approach was very different, like I say, because London have been quite pressurised and very public. Milton Keynes, about five people, knew six people maybe. And I really enjoyed that aspect. but it was just a little secret of mine and I felt much less pressure going into it. personally I was pretty chilled. I mean, at least from a running perspective, I felt quite chilled. Life was really chaotic in the week
leading up to it. We've had. I mean, this stuff doesn't happen in London, but we had a two day power cut, where we had no. We have nothing in the house, no hot water, no heating, no lighting, blah, blah, blah. And when it finally came back on, all of our appliances had blown, like chaos for about, 300 houses in the surrounding area as well. And we're still not quite back to normal anyway. But. So life had been quite chaotic that week. And I got
sick. So that, the first marathon I was probably harbouring something or my little boy had something and normally his bugs don't affect me. M and my wife got quite good immune systems. But then London knocked me off enough to get sick. In the meantime, I've already booked Milton Keynes. What have I done? and For the whole two weeks it's been lingering. Even now it's still
lingering. So anyway, the buildup wasn't necessarily ideal, but, yeah, I really enjoyed the fact that it wasn't going to be time focused, that it was going to be about places really traditional racing in that sense, and just Just very different. but mainly just trying to just freshen up as much as possible. I had to keep a couple of runs, hidden on Strava because there are quite obviously marathon buildup runs. and I didn't want people to know.
>> Charlie: Yes. >> Tom Hollis: So, yeah, but I mean, aside from all the stuff that was going on in the background, just trying to be positive and chilled and sleep well and eat well and look after myself as much as possible and look forward to the day. >> Charlie: So was there anything you changed in terms of fueling wise from London to Milton Keynes, based on the fact that you were obviously trying to kind of recover and then did you do another full carb
load and then race day? What did race day nutrition look like for you? >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, another form carb load, which as you know, I take quite seriously. it's actually not that fun because when you're really trying to maximise a carb load, it's a pretty unhealthy diet. it's, you know, it's a lot of white, beige carbs, high sugar, low fibre, low fat, which for a couple of days you don't feel fantastic, but it's a means to an end to a good marathon time.
To do that, twice in 15 days was not that, fun, I have to admit. I'm good at it now. I know what food take. I know I've got a fairly good routine with it. So, I didn't actually change anything. I aimed for about eleven grammes of carbs per kilogramme of body weight on the. I'd normally say Friday and Saturday, but this was a Monday marathon so it was the Saturday and Sunday this time. and then on the day itself I kept things pretty similar as well.
So, my morning is normally either bagels with marmite or crumpets with marmite, plus, electrolyte and carb drink that I usually have on my way to the race. And I do that for halves and for marathons. Usually about 80 grammes of carbs in 500 mils. Just kind of sipping that slate over the last hour and a half of the race. Hour and a half of the build up towards the race. >> Charlie: and that's, that's one that you've made yourself, isn't it? Like ah, Tom Hollis special blend.
>> Tom Hollis: It's not even that. It's not that complicated or special. But yes, it is one that I make myself and I do that. I make my own drinks for fueling throughout training. So it's become second nature now. So to Sunday long runs in mountain training blocks. Saturday is always about getting the scales out and making my own drink for the Sunday morning. a few different ingredients going in there, but I quite like
being in control of it. and it's cheaper and it's better for the environment because I get to use my own reusable bottle each time. So yeah, all things that are quite appealing to me. and then on the way round again, I've converted to using my own liquid carb mix on the marathon itself. plus a couple of high caffeine gels that I take. First one at halfway, second one about 25 minutes after that. And then for the final bit of the marathon, I finish whatever of the drink I should have. Oh, I
didn't have in the first half. It is not nailed down yet. there are issues with it. Carrying your own bottle is annoying. There's no getting around it. so it's still a work in progress. But I do really like being in control, absolute control of having it with me at all times and being able to just sip regularly rather than with gels. For example, where you're taking quite large amounts, then a break, then a large amount, then a break. The other advantage of drinking your own carbs is
you can be in control of your hydration at the same time. So I pretty much don't need to take anything on the on course drinks offerings, which again, just helps in terms of not breaking your momentum and your flow. but, it's not perfect. Carrying a 500 mil bottle is a lot, particularly at the start of the race in one hand. So I'm thinking splitting it into 2250 mil ones, and see how that goes. But yeah. >> Charlie: So which gels do
you use? You said you take a high caffeine. Which ones do you prefer? >> Tom Hollis: I have always got on well with the SAS products and I use the sis beta fuel nootropics ones, so they are pretty punchy. So they've got 200 milligrammes of caffeine in? yeah, a lot. And so, like I said, the first one about halfway, which for me is about 75 minutes. And then I have my second one about 25 minutes after that. So around about 100 minutes in. Yeah.
>> Charlie: Okay. and I guess you've talked about like, the specifics of, like, it's a bit annoying carrying your own bottles. You're running for not that, long. For those of us that are running for an extra hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, we're going to need more bottles. So is there, how would you advise your running clients or your nutrition clients? Like, what kind of things do you suggest to them in terms of what people wanting to bring their own liquid carbs with them?
>> Tom Hollis: Good question. And I literally just got off a consultation with a client talking about exactly that. Ah, because she and I have been exploring her options for liquid carbs for London marathon. She's always had, obviously not going to name her by name. She's always had problems in the park with, fueling, mid run, particularly marathon distance. So we try to explore or
making her own? Actually, no, not making her own. She was using a commercially available, sports product that you put into water. so lots of them do it again. Sas do theirs, Morton do theirs. tailwind do theirs. Loads of them do them down. So she was using those and she was using like a hydration pack for one litres worth and, then carrying an additional bottle in her hand as
well. So she was in total going to be having 1250 mils worth of volume on her, which was two and a half, 80 gramme sachets of carbs. So about 200 grammes of carbs. she was aiming to go around about three and a half hours. but there are other issues which I completely get when you're out there a bit longer. things get a bit warmer,
which can be a bit grosser. You know, if you're drinking your own liquid carbs mix and it's just slowly boiling away in the sun, that's going to be gross if it's a hot day, three and a half, 4 hours in. So I do get, that, but as ever, it's all about trying these things in training, particularly on your long weekend runs. and, not, you really have to try and replicate all of it. Not just the amount of carbs, but how it feels sitting on you, that volume, that weight, how often you need to
drink and so on. And so for some people, they might think, well, that's definitely, not worth the effort. I will use gels or I'll use what's on the course. So every person is slightly different. And obviously some people just do not get on well with sports nutrition products at all and are adamant that they need to eat real
foods or something a bit closer to that. I have always in the past, kind of tried to steer away from that because I just think if you can tolerate sports products, you're going to be far more likely to get closer to the amount of carbs per hour that would benefit your performance. But, yes, some people just really struggle. >> Charlie: Yeah. Okay, so let's take it to the main topic of today. I could talk about this all day,
as you and I have talked many times. We go down a bit of a rabbit hole. First question, did you take any like beetroot nitrates in the lead up to either of your two marathons or have you ever before? >> Tom Hollis: Yes, and pretty much always for any race of significance. I have done, for, I would say the last at least five years. >> Charlie: Wow, okay.
>> Tom Hollis: Yeah, pretty much. If I've got them, which is most of the time, then I will have them for anything, a meaningful race where the outcome is really important to me. You know, if I was doing a summer series of five k's, for example, I might not necessarily do it for each one, because they're not the cheapest products, necessarily. So I might be a little bit more sparing in terms of where I use them. But, yeah, like I say, for any meaningful
race, pretty much always. And yes, that included London and Milton keys marathons. >> Charlie: Okay, so let's go back to kind of basics. Why. Why are nitrates beneficial? Why do you take them? Someone who's obviously done a lot of research into sports nutrition and performance, why are you taking them? And why should the everyday runner, rather than like necessarily elite runners, be thinking about taking them? >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, and, actually, before I kind of go into the why,
it's. There's actually, you could say there's more benefit for the non elite runners than the elite runners. Interestingly, this is one, ergogenic, so, performance enhancing area, or aid, where it looks a lot of the research points towards there being more benefit, potentially, for untrained, relatively speaking, or recreational athletes, runners, than towards the ending end of the spectrum, which is different to a lot of. >> Charlie: Finally. >> Tom Hollis: No, finally, for super
shoes, it's often the other way, isn't it? It's thought to be the fast buyers that you get that, x percent improvement in performance, but it's all the other way for Beatru. And there's, there's some theories as to why that might be, but just to kind of boil it down to what it is. So it's all about not the beetroot per se, but something called nitrates. So, dietary nitrates are something that are, ah, in a few different types of vegetables.
So some dark green, leafy vegetables, things like spinach, rocket, rainbow chard. It's actually in lettuce. I think it's in kale. I can't remember. When I say it's in it, I mean in significant amounts to make a difference. and it's also in Vietroit. what happens when you eat nitrates is they're converted to nitrite in your mouth. I won't get too technical from a chemistry perspective, because I think we need to necessarily.
But so the bacteria in your, in your mouth, so your oral microbiome converts nitrate to nitrite, and then the nitrite is converted to something called nitric oxide. So nitric oxide or no you sometimes see it, is known to be a really powerful and useful molecule that we have naturally in our bodies anyway. So we, there are two ways to produce it. One is that, pathway that I've just talked about, and the other is their endogenous pathway. So it's naturally done within the body through a separate
pathway. we know that, nitric oxide is what's called a vasodilator. So it increases the diameter of some blood vessels to improve, blood flow. So it can actually be used to treat high blood pressure, for example, by widening blood vessels, and can be used therapeutically in medicine. And is, But, so that's one role for it. But it is thought to have lots of other kind of physiological roles that we are, we know a bit less about, but, ah, are just starting to
understand. But the important thing of what it does from a running perspective, and it's been researched quite heavily for the last, say, ten years plus 15 years, even a little bit longer, is it shown to improve your running economy or exercise economy. And what that means is it's, it's lowering the oxygen costs of any exercise that you're doing. In other words, making you slightly more efficient, at what you're
doing. And that's potentially really amazing because there are kind of three markers that are thought to mainly define your performance at running, which is your vo two max. So your maximum oxygen uptake, your lactate threshold, so the point at which your lactate starts rising exponentially, and your running economy or your exercise economy. And, it was often thought that there's very few things that can change that third one. but
nitrates is potentially one. So that's why it's being researched so heavily. And we're not talking about massive changes, it's not going to transform your running, but we're talking about a percent here or there. >> Charlie: Yeah. Which, let's face it, we're all looking for the marginal gains, aren't we? So. >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, and I definitely am for
myself as well. So knowing that there is that potential benefit there, I always feel like it's something I could do and therefore something I will do just to kind of try and tick every box. there's, I mean, I can talk a little bit more about, the research, if you like. It just kind of depends. where do you want to go? >> Charlie: Yeah, I mean, I think. I think talking more about like how, like, how do
you do it? Like, when we're talking about adding nitrates into our diet, beetroots in are we talking about cooking with extra beetroot? So I know that I saw a lot of people taking shots of beetroot in the days leading up to the London marathon, sharing on social media with them, you know, they're like blood red mouth. So how do you take the nitrates or take the beetroot to get the most benefit and, how much? >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, that's good. Okay. Yeah. So let's keep it really
practical. So, like I mentioned, there are different variations. Vegetables that naturally have higher nitrate levels in them. But in order to get close to the amount of nitrates, that is evidence based from the research, to give you the dose effect needed, you'd need eating really large amounts of this spinach or rocket or beetroot or lettuce and. >> Charlie: So on, which doesn't go well with a car blade.
>> Tom Hollis: Exactly. Exactly right. So on a day to day basis, if you've got healthy, fairly balanced diet, then you might be including some or lots of these things. Anyway, and I try to, but in that two day period with low fibre, particularly advice leading into a race, particularly a marathon, it doesn't really tell you well because you're. Yeah, exactly
right. So you're not telling to have a load of dark green, leafy veggies during that period, which is where things like beetroot shots come in because, well, a, they are the most heavily researched form of nitrates because it's a way of controlling the amount that you're taking because it's a commercially available product. but also they are the most practical way to get this dose in. So, the dose that I'm talking about is about 300 to 400
milligrammes of, of nitrate. You can get that, in about 500 mils of beetroot juice itself. Now that's a lot of beetroot juice. But so what is now more practical is in the last few years, plus, you've been able to get the concentrated beetroot shots that you've been talking about. And that is what most people will use. And each one of those shots will have one kind of evidence based dose of nitrate that, is likely to have a very small impact on your running economy and therefore potentially
performance. M. There is some evidence that taking it, ah, chronically, that is for a few days, up to six days before the race, has, some additional benefit beyond race, morning or pre race. But that's, in my opinion, not conclusive. So again, if you want to absolutely tick every box, then you could do that by taking it regularly in the days leading into the event. and there's some evidence that your muscles act as a nitrate reservoir, so you do store some of
it. But, from my reading, and I've done a literature review on this when I did my sports nutrition postgrad a few years ago and I've checked and I don't believe there's anything to kind of contradict this recently, really. It's all about your pre, if you have to prioritise it, it would be your pre race dose of nitrates and you want that to be at least an hour and a half before
your race. So somewhere between about 3 hours before and an hour and a half before, in order for that pathway that I talked about to have taken effect. Whilst I think of it, because it is an important, quite weird thing to mention. M I mentioned about the oral microbiome having an impact. So the bacteria being key to that first, conversion. So you don't want to have a really clean
mouth when this is happening. So there were studies to show that if you had an antibacterial mouthwash, for example, during or shortly after, that process of taking the nitrates, it would disrupt it significantly and your levels of nitric oxide would not raise to anywhere near the same
extent. So glue is a bit gross, which you don't have a clean mouth, which unfortunately isn't necessarily what you want because you, you kind of feel like you do want to clean your mouth because you've just taken this bright red thing that's going to stay in your mouth for hours, or your tongue at least. But unfortunately you kind of need to link it there. I've tried to look for how long you need to not have
cleaned your mouth before and after. And I don't like clear answer on that, unfortunately. So I tend to kind of, me personally brush my teeth, etcetera, early on marathon day, maybe 4 hours out, something like that, depending on time, and then maybe have breakfast and a cup of tea and
blah, blah, blah. and then maybe an hour after that, then I would do the beetroot shot, and in between that and starting the race, I wouldn't be taking any chewing gum, and obviously wouldn't be brushing my teeth or mouthwash or anything like that.
>> Charlie: But is it okay, do you think, to kind of just swill your mouth out with water so that you get rid of that flood red teeth look, or are you personally trying to kind of avoid that and you just don't smile at anyone on the way to the race and hope that the race photos turn out okay. >> Tom Hollis: As far as I'm aware, then I don't think water would
change that at all. I don't think it would make a significant change. Your bacteria, it's where you're more kind of aggressively, intentionally cleaning your. That it makes a difference. That's my understanding, anyway. >> Charlie: Interesting. Okay. And so that's pre race. I've heard of some people using them during the race, or sterka, have just come out with a gel that contains 350 milligrammes
of nitrates within their, carb gel. So is there benefits, especially for maybe people that are running longer, as in not longer distance, but running for a longer period of time? Is there a benefit for them of taking it during the race? >> Tom Hollis: Possibly. I've not seen anything conclusive in research to say that
there should be. but it's something that I've considered myself as well, because, like we talked about at the start here, because I'll make my own fuel for marathons, there's the potential there to add in nitrates in one form or another. but I've decided not to. And also, I guess if you're adding in the beetroot shots in your drink, if you get spinaches, that could get quite
messy, potentially. anyway, but I guess if you're a four hour plus marathon, then it could make some sense that you're getting the benefit of that, later in the race. But the half life. Sorry. The raised nitric oxide levels in the blood, and in the muscles, to my understanding, it's not like it comes up and then comes down really quickly. It comes up and stays there for a fair few hours. So it's. There's no need for my understanding
to be taking it mid race rather than before. I could be wrong, but not from whatever it. >> Charlie: Okay, interesting. So I guess people could, if they are, you could use it as the gel if they're doing something like a five k, and then at least you've got the carbs, but you want it an hour and a half ish before the race. So have it as your kind of pre run, five k snack on the way to the race. I might have to do some testing with that, but, you mentioned that you used.
>> Tom Hollis: I just won that. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think. >> Charlie: No, don't worry. >> Tom Hollis: They're confused with nitrates as well, because the, other, I guess, most commonly researched ergogenic aid from a m nutrition perspective is caffeine. And you notice the impact of caffeine rather, right. You feel stimulated, you feel more alert. There is a tangible impact on how you feel.
And so some people assume that nitrates, beetroot shots, whatever, aren't working in that commerce because they don't feel anything. But you won't. It's not like caffeine where you get that kind of stimulated effect. It's a more subtle effect that hopefully will benefit your performance but you won't notice why. I just want to point out. >> Charlie: Okay, good to know. Because I feel like yeah you kind of, especially if you're spending some money on it, you want to feel the bang for your
buck. But hopefully it translates to improved performance times just while I'm on that. So if anyone does want to try, beat it. You can save 10% on x miles with the code cookeatrun ten. They are the one stop shop for all your fueling needs including pre, post and mid race nutrition. So stock up on those essentials and if you want to give beta a try, this is the place to buy it.
>> Tom Hollis: Just on that note. Actually I'm not filled with beta at all, but they are products that I've generally used, in fact exclusively used for nitrates over the years. And some people don't get on with the shots because they find it just too intense from a flavour perspective. too earthy, just too much so they have Laura recently brought out like a crystals option. So they're a
bit more versatile in how you take them. So you could have them with your porridge or with some yoghurt or even in a salad or something like that. So it's the same dose being detected slightly differently. >> Charlie: Yeah I've seen those actually. They have those, the shot and a more a ah, bigger like bottle that. Then if you're doing the kind of build up that you can then use, pour out your own 70 mils or whatever you need.
And they've got all of those on xml so go and cheque it out. I'll leave a link in the description box so that everyone can have a look. so we've talked a little bit about kind of dosage when to do it, but would you ever use these for your like training runs? Like the ones that are like these are a key training run or is it just for race day for you?
>> Tom Hollis: I think if I'm being completely honest, if money was no object, I might use them a bit more in training because there is benefit there. So a lot of the evidence points towards it being most effective for kind of sub maximal training. So not when you're absolutely, exhausting yourself to the limit. which in my interpretation might be of benefit to the marathon because for a lot of the marathon you are running out sub maximal
effort. there is more m recently evidence to show that it could be beneficial for shorter interval and higher intensity work. but yeah, more traditionally it's been associated with that sub maximal effort. And there is potential benefit there in terms of using it for training because if that oxygen cost of that training session is lower, then it's going to feel a bit easier. Your recovery might be slightly improved, which
in turn might be a confidence boost, etcetera. And also, yet again, practising things for race day that you wouldn't want to leave for race day itself. So I probably would use them a little bit more regularly in training, if, like I said, if price wasn't a factor. but as it is, it tends to be perhaps once or twice a training block. I will use them for training.
Yeah. >> Charlie: And so you mentioned sort of the recovery aspect of like if it feels easier if you're not having to exert yourself so much to hit the paces necessarily. And they also beta have a product that's designed for recovery or they post it as recovery, which has cherry juice with it. Is that something you've tried? How does that work? Is there benefits to taking nitrates for recovery? Or is it more the cherry juice that they're using there for the recovery aspect?
>> Tom Hollis: I haven't tried it and, I would love to at some point. but the tart cherry juice thing has been around again for a few years as being powerful in terms of recovery. But you do need to be quite clever in terms of what when you use it. Because, if you're kind of reducing inflammation, and oxidation from training too often, then you can actually be blunting the adaptation that you want from that training. But I do know that it's used quite a lot at elite level and can
be beneficial for sleep as well. So sleep quality, which is something that we're all striving for. but no, I've not used that product. And I also. I'm not totally. No, I don't really know about nitrate and its role in recovery or the composition of the tea, I'm afraid. >> Charlie: No problem. I just. I'm interested. I keep getting given the sleepy girl, cocktail on instagram, TikTok, which is like tart, cherry juice, magnesium and I think sparkling water or something. That's supposed to
be the, you know, the key to sleeping well. And I haven't tried it yet, but I'm actually quite tempted. Are there any downsides other than we've mentioned cost to taking the nitrates of the beetroot shots? >> Tom Hollis: well, in terms of side effects, no, not really. So, apart from the one that most people will have experienced, which is, discolouration of who and we, for once. >> Charlie: And I was wondering how you're gonna.
>> Tom Hollis: Say here, but let's just go with pooh. And we're both new parents, so that's kind of appropriate. And, which can be pretty alarming, actually, when you do it for the first time. Not everyone gets it to the same extent, actually, but most people do. And, sometimes you can forget that you've. That you've taken it. >> Charlie: Yeah. Then you're guilty of that. >> Tom Hollis: Okay. That's what's going on here. Yeah, I'm not. I haven't. I'm not bleeding from
tindamo. It can be quite alarming. But, it's obviously not, you know, that's not damaging at all. It's just a sign of your body processing it. but beyond that, ah, in a lot of the literature and the literature review that I did back in the day, there are basically no side effects or in effects to be concerned of. >> Charlie: Great. So basically, if you're interested, give it a try. Test it in training. >> Charlie: Yeah. >> Charlie: And then use it for race day.
>> Tom Hollis: It is very, very low risk. you know, it may benefit you. You may feel that it doesn't benefit you. It is 100% legal. It is. You know, the beetroots and the vegetables that it's naturally found in are healthy anyway. So they're good additions to your. To your diet and to your overall health. and although I say, you know, price is a potential barrier in terms of things that you can do, those small one percenters to improve your training, it's pretty low cost compared
to some of the other things. Super shoes and so on. >> Charlie: Yeah. And cook, eat, run, ten gives you a 10% discount. So if you are interested in trying it, use that on x miles and, let us know how you get on. Well, Tom, thanks so much for joining me today. Where can people find you if they want to follow you on Instagram, Strava, or work with you for run or nutrition coaching? >> Tom Hollis: So, Maury, let's start with my Instagram, which is plant runner Rd, which is where I am
moderately active on. trying to go a bit more, but, could definitely go for improvement there. Strava is just Tom Horace. and then my website is tomhorrishealth.com m which is probably first pull of cord if you're interested in coaching and other nutrition services that I provide. And actually if you wanted to look at this topic in particular, I've got a blog on there which if you scroll back a few pages, I did three separate consecutive blogs on nitrates for endurance running.
>> Charlie: I will link to all of that in the show notes so that people can get directly, direct access to you, including the Strava with the hidden runs. Are you going to share them now? >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, maybe. >> Charlie: So. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I'm so excited to learn a little bit more about Beatit and the company, the products. Can we start a little bit with how and why beat it was formed?
>> Charlie: Yeah, of course. So Beetit is part of James white drinks. So we're based up in Suffolk and we've been going since 1986, actually. The company, we've been pressing beetroot since 2005, so quite a long time. And really, the whole sort of beat it in the sense of a sports brand really
came about, from the research. So it was researchers up in Scandinavia, back in 2006, they found that nitrate helped to increase nitric oxide production in the body, that helped to lower high blood pressure and they were looking to try and find a natural source of it, basically. So at the time they're using things like nitrate salts, potassium salts and things like that. So at the time we were the only sort of beetroot pressing company, so in the UK. So they contacted
us. We said, yeah, that's fine. We didn't have much expectations about, you know, what was going to be useful or what they find. and yeah, they did find that helped to lower high blood pressure. In 2009, some researchers down in the University of ex today sort of thought, well, maybe that might help in athletic performance. We can help improve blood flow and oxygen around the body. So that's when they started to investigate the effects of beetroot juice on
sports and endurance performance. And then, in 2011, we sort of rebranded then, so from beat it to beat it sport because we kind of followed the research, really. so yeah, that's kind of where it all started. And since then, it's sort of snowboard really, with a lot of new papers that have come out, a lot of new applications that's been found in different sporting types as well. So, it's been an interesting journey and it's an interesting one. Now there's
this still lots of research that's coming out today. So. >> Charlie: So were you just pressing beet for beetroot juice as a. Just, a drink or to include in some of your other drinks? Anyway. And then it just so happens that it is an amazing product for athletes and general health. >> Charlie: Yeah, so we. I mean, James White, we've always been pressing fruits and vegetables. So we do all sorts of natural juices. We have, a, product called Big Tom, which is a spice tomato mix. We do.
>> Charlie: I've drunk many of those over the years. >> Charlie: Yeah. So any sort of fruit and veg, we try to press it. We make it into a product. So it came quite naturally to us. and obviously a lot of the beets are, grown in Cambridge, which is not far away from us in Ipswich. So, yeah, at the start we just thought it'd be interesting to press, I guess press a beetroot juice, as
a healthy drink. We also do a carrot juice as well. So we're a big fan of keeping nature quite simple, you know, not adding anything else in. so, yeah, we were already kind of sort of pressing it. So it's quite easy for us to supply the researchers in the beginning. >> Charlie: So it's kind of. Yeah, as you say, it's sort of snowboard from there. So we've talked kind of a little bit about in this episode about runners using it. But do you work with a range of athletes to, improve?
Because I guess it's not just running where you can, you want kind of effort and exertion levels to be lowered. >> Charlie: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I guess the kind of basis of our consumers are endurance based. So whether that's on the bike or runners, that's because that's where the research sort of started from, helping to delay the onset
of exhaustion. So. And then, it was about 2015, 2016, some researchers looked at what happens to, improving things like intermittent sprinting and, reaction time and strength and force production. So once they found that out, a lot of sports nutritionist dietitians that work with these professional teams, they then contacted us because they were looking at using the products for a different basis. So we supply a lot of teams, in the states, a lot of NFL teams, NCAA d one teams, NBA
teams. So I guess the products are applicable to quite a wide range of sports now. and there's a lot of evidence now it's not only just insurance, but also how it can help with things like team sports and independent sprinting and things like that. So yeah, quite a wide range, but for different, different outcomes, I suppose. Different, different applications.
>> Charlie: Yeah, I hadn't even thought about it. That side. Obviously, we're very focused on kind of nutrition for running and cycling, with x miles and with myself being a runner. So, yeah, that's interesting. And do you get to go over and watch any of the games or are you strictly, send the supplies and hope for the best? >> Charlie: I'd love to. yeah, they're usually very, very busy people, so I, don't get time to go out there. I've been out to the states, but
not to see any sport. But, yeah, I'd love to experience it. I think, it's a bit of a crate. >> Charlie: You need a research trip, see how they're putting it into action. >> Charlie: Yeah, why not? >> Charlie: So that's kind of the elite side of it. How would you, or how does b six sport suggest that the everyday runner cyclist trying to improve their own personal performance use the products? >> Charlie: Yeah, so I guess the kind of dosing principle remains the
same. what the researchers found is that, the higher trained you are, the less effects you'll get from it. and it's usually down to, I guess, the training status. So if you're an elite athlete, you might get a one or 2% improvement. I guess the room for improvement, or the ceiling is a lot, lower in the sense that, they're already quite close to their maximum, whereas for the average person like myself, who's not sort of highly trained, I guess, the room for improvement is
greater. and I think it's a lot of these elite athletes may already have a diet that's rich in nitrate already. Perhaps they might already be quite tuned to producing nitric oxide already as well. So, yeah, and that's what the research has shown. So the lower the trains you are, the chances are, the higher the benefits that you're going to get. but yeah, the dosing is still the same, so you still use it in the days leading up to the race.
and yeah, like I said before, there's a lot of research every year that's coming up that increases our understanding of it. So, yeah, that just helps for the kind of general public, I guess, just to understand how, how nitrate can benefit their performance. And, the other is the same, whether you're elites or non elites, you know, there's still been, you know, benefit that can, that can help you so yeah.
>> Charlie: So how many bottles do you think you need if you've not trained for a marathon and you need to be performing on race day? >> Charlie: Yeah, I mean, I recommend taking it in training so there aren't any side effects. >> Charlie: Okay. >> Tom Hollis: Yeah. >> Charlie: Yeah. >> Charlie: It does turn your weeping. >> Charlie: Yeah. >> Charlie: Right. So you can't get around that. But, it's just a
juice. You know, we don't have any fibre in there. So people often get a bit concerned about how it's going to sit in the stomach with the products. You're taking it in the days before, you can take it any time of the day. By doing this, you're basically sort of banking up the nitrate in the muscles. So they found out, a couple of years ago that nitrate gets stored in the muscle. So similar to how we carb load before a race, you want to sort of load up
the stores of nitrate. So when you start to run the marathon, you're not only using what you have in your bloodstream, but your body will draw it from the stores as well. >> Charlie: Okay. >> Charlie: So that, that's, I guess, one reason why. Why we preload on it. And, yeah, it's also because the nitrate in the body helps. It's been shown to cause more. It takes time, I guess, for the adaptations, to occur rather, than just having it sort of on the day off.
You, do get a benefit taking it on the delve, but the research has shown. Yeah, there's much, much more sort, of pronounced benefits, I guess if you take it over about six days, leading up to the race. So, yeah, one or two shots a day. >> Charlie: Yeah. And would you recommend people use it in training just to text sort of how it feels and also to get those benefits maybe before their long run or before a hard workout in the weeks leading up to the marathon. So that then the pink wee and
the. And the taste, I guess, is not such a shock on race week. >> Charlie: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, like with anything, always trout training first. We don't get any sort of negative feedback. like I say, it's been used by over 300 different, studies now as well. So it's literally thousands of athletes. and the only side effect is it does to any wheat pink. So. But like with everybody, everyone's different. You know, they haven't been tested in the lab. So, you know, make sure
you try it yourself. and, yeah, I guess it's just getting you to something new that's part of a routine. But because you're having it in the days before, any time of the day, even on the day of the race, you've taken about 2 hours before. So by the time you start to run, you would
have fully digested it anyway. And it's only a 70 mil volume, so it's not like a pint's worth that you've got to choke through, which is what you would have done if we didn't sort of develop the product back in 2011, into concentrated shots. yeah, definitely trout training. like I say, it's something which you kind of. It's more of a bolt on to what you're already doing. So some people say, oh, do I still need to take gels? Do I still need to worry about my hydration? I mean, yes, you
do. Obviously, you need your energy still. This, beetroot juice just helps you to be more efficient with the energy that you are consuming. So it sort of lowers the energy costs of exercise, basically. So still stick to everything else you're doing. Just an extra bolt on. That's got a lot of research evidence behind it. Yeah. To help you. >> Charlie: So it's kind of like the nutrition equivalent of a supershoe.
>> Charlie: Yeah. I mean, the percentage improvements are quite similar, actually. Yeah. So on average, on endurance, so time taken to reach exhaustion, that's usually what they measure on. It varies from around about five to 7% improvement in the time taken to reach exhaustion. So, And some people say, yeah, would I feel it? It's not like
caffeine. It's not like a stimulant where you feel, you know, like elated. It's something which I guess you'd only kind of feel it if you know what, you'd usually start to feel fatigued on a run or a race. You might feel it then that you've got a bit more gas in the tank to keep going, because that's, that's effectively what the shots do. They enable you to run a little bit further into your week's exhaustion because you're
more efficient with the fuel that you've got. so, yeah, it's no, no caffeine, because a lot of people are sort of ordering a caffeine thing. So it's not, it's not a stimulant, but, >> Tom Hollis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Charlie: That's, that's the nice thing about it, really. It's just all natural. >> Charlie: And so you've got the 70 millilitres that are kind of the pre packaged. You've also got some ones that are mixed with cherry juice.
So what are those ones. How are they different from the ones that are just kind of standalone beet charts? >> Charlie: Yeah, so the sour cherry, it is a mixture. So we've got, it's roughly half and half. So sour cherry is 58% and the beetroot is 42%. So what we've done is we've mixed the two concentrates, sour cherry and beetroot. They're both known to be rich in antioxidants.
and then there's a lot of research that's shown that antioxidants such as sour cherry can help lower sort, of muscle soreness or the symptoms of that after a run. And it does that by lowering the, the inflammation that you get after exercise. So, yeah, it's very different. Obviously, it does have a bit of nitrate in from the beetroot that's in there. It's not as much as you would have from the beetroot shop, but it's all really about the combination of antioxidants that you get, from a
mixture, and it's also ready to drink as well. So you don't have to worry about pouring out, mixing. You can just quickly shot it back. >> Charlie: And still taking that before or. Because often with the cherry juice, it's recommended to have that afterwards. So it's kind of like you take it before your long run or your marathon, and then you're still going to get the benefits from the cherry juice afterwards.
>> Charlie: Yeah. So we did actually initially recommend having it just after the, exercise or race, but then we had a lot of feedback from some professors in the sort of world of sour cherry, I guess, and they were saying that really at the moment, the consensus is that there's more benefits if you were to take it before and afterwards. So they kind of coined the term, pre covering, which is, even though it's a recovery product, you have
to start before. So. And the reason being, they think, is because just, by taking it afterwards, it's kind of too late, so the damage is done, and you're trying to sort of get it in once the damage has been caused. Whereas if you can get the antioxidants in sort of pre, then your body sort of has it there to use it when it needs to, I suppose so. So we, we've used a dosing where we do, sort of two or three days before and then two or three days afterwards. So it's something which is sort of
dose before and dose afterwards. Initially, we didn't want to do that because it kind of crosses over the beach, at sports as well. but we were kind of always led by the science and, when we are told by professors what they think it should be done in the area, which they are, the experts in, we'd be silly to ignore that. So yeah, we've taken it on board. and yeah, that's the kind of recommended way to do it.
>> Charlie: So that's one of the other products. You've also got the big bottles of the concentrate and then are they crystals? They kind of the powder, how does that work? >> Charlie: Yeah, so the crystals are, 100% beetroot juice. So they're just vacuum dried basically, and then it's milled, so it's 100% natural. The reason why we made that product is because a lot of people understand the benefits of beetroot, but they either don't like the taste or they don't like the idea of
what it's going to taste like. It's often the latter. People have an idea of what it's going to be. so we wanted to have a product which enabled people to sort of benefit from beetroot, but is a bit more palatable. So the crystals are great for like sprinkling over things like breakfast cereals, porridge, oats. I personally have it mixed in with yoghurt. You just get the natural sweetness of beetroot, which is great. So you don't get the oathy taste that you get from the liquid form
and yeah, ah, it's just a bit more versatile. We had some ultra runners who are really keen on it because they're having a top up dose of nitrate mid, you know, 100k or whatever, they're running these crazy distances. And rather than carrying a shot, which is obviously a little bit more weight, but to little bit bulkier, they can just put a little sachet down in their pocket and they can add it to their drink at
feed station. So, and if people are travelling abroad as well, it's lightweight, so yeah, I guess it's the same purpose, but it's just another way of getting the nitrates in. If the shots are a bit too intense for you. >> Charlie: Yeah, I guess for travelling, people travelling with hand luggage only, that's a, you know, if they're trying to take a couple of shots, it's a lot of their
liquid. you know that you're only allowed to take this little bag, so you don't want to waste the space necessarily, or not waste it, but you know, use a lot of your space with. >> Charlie: It's a lot of beetroot to drink all in one go if you don't have in it. >> Charlie: Yeah. Or an expensive mistake if you if you get caught. >> Charlie: Yeah, they should be okay. It's around 100 mil, but like you say, it is still something you got to try and fit in there, in.
>> Charlie: The bags, but yeah, and there's big debate over whether gels are liquid or not when you're going through those sorts of things, so. >> Charlie: Yeah, true. >> Charlie: Sounds like travelling, that could be a really good option for people to use the crystals. yeah, definitely. >> Charlie: Most people who are having maybe breakfast at the hotel, a lot of people have porridge at the hotel
or something. You can just, you know, quickly rip open the sachet and mix it in or have it with the yoghurt if that's your thing. So, yeah, it's just a bit more versatile, I guess, which hopefully gets more people sort of on board with a brand. >> Charlie: and so what sets beat it sport apart from other kind of brands or products that are boasting the fact that they've contained nitrates for performance?
>> Charlie: Yeah. So I think the key thing, well there's a number of things really, but the most important thing with beetroot or any sort of nitrate related product is how much nitrate is in a serving and is it enough to cause a performance benefit and if it is, is it consistent batch to batch? So one thing that we found very early on was that nitrate varies from beets you get in the garden, in the supermarket to even our regular juice that
we do. So when we gave it to the researchers, they just found that it fluctuated all over the place and it's really hard for them to do robust research when you've got inconsistencies like that. So we took a lot of time to get it right. we use sort of high nitrate beetroot, I guess, and then we standardise every batch. So every shot has got, at least 400 milligrammes of nitrate in. So I guess there are many competitors out there, obviously in the UK,
elsewhere in the world as well. But we actually test every single competitor product when it is launched, to see how much nitrate is in there. And does it stack up to what they claim? We don't release these to the public because, I think we'll probably get. >> Charlie: A lot of legal, don't want to. >> Charlie: Get sued, especially in the states, but, we've been quite shocked actually. There's some products out there in the states that are claiming
400 milligrammes. they've got less than ten. So it shows that people are often misled, which is quite frustrating for us because that's where a lot of the research and development came. From our perspective, we wanted to make sure that we were standardising it. another thing is that we keep it literally 100% natural. So there's only two ingredients in our shots. If you look at other nitrate products, you'll probably see a handful of ingredients. A lot of them aren't natural, they're
preservatives. so we keep it really clean, really natural. We're in form sport as well, so any athlete has that assurance. and we're also the product that's been used by all the research. So any beetroot related research that's been done over the last sort of 15 years, about 90% of them have used our product. So they know that our product has actually been tested. we haven't funded any research so we're just the ones that can provide the researchers with a product that has a standardised
dose. And we do a placebo shot as well which has no nitrate. So they can do a crossover, double blind study. So that's why they use us. they trust us. So a lot of these dietitians and the nutritionists, that's why they come to us, because they read about the research, they'll see that they used our products and they come to us. So I guess we're the most credible, in that sense that we are actually tested. I don't think there's many products out there that's probably tested as much as
us. and yeah we're quite sort of proud of that. I think it's is something which sets us apart from the rest. Yeah, for sure. >> Charlie: Great. And if people want to find out more about the products, where can they go other than x miles which have the product? And we have got 10% off code for listeners with the product, the code cook, eat, run ten which will save across xmls including the Beatit sport products. But yeah, where can people go to find more?
>> Charlie: Yeah, great. I mean xmiles is a great resource, as well. We have our own website, beatitude.com, where we have info on there. we have our own Instagram page where we post infographics, information, videos, content. If there's something where if someone has a question that we can't answer online, just drop us an email, contact us on our website. We've got things like brochures, booklets we can send out as a PDF always happy to jump on a call as
well. We often speak to athletes who have certain events where they want some bespoke advice. If it's back to back and even how do I dose? So, yeah, just reach out to us directly or look on our website. That's probably the best way. Fab. >> Charlie: well, thank you so much. It was so interesting. I've actually got a box here ready in front of me to test out as part of my training to see how I get on in training and then hopefully use them for Berlin Marathon at the end of the summer.
>> Charlie: Oh, brilliant. Brilliant. It's in, is it? September Berlin, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's been a pleasure. >> Charlie: Yeah, it'll come around soon, but yeah, yeah. >> Charlie: It's been, a pleasure chatting with you and hope you go well with the products that's. Now you get on. >> Charlie: Will do. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the
Cook Eat Run podcast with xmls. Don't forget to get all of your nutrition products from xmls, the one stop store for your nutritional needs. Try out some new gels. Try out the beat it sport range. I know that I've got literally a box sitting right in front of me and I can't wait to try it out. Next week's episode is with Jamie. Jamie running on Instagram and we are doing a deep dive into
Sterka products. I'm talking about his favourites. I've ordered some products for me to try, so don't forget to join us next week and hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Don't.