Uganda In A Multipolar Brave New World Order

Hello. Hi. Welcome back to Conversations with Stephen Kamugasa. This is the fourth podcast episode in our Genocide series. Today's guest is Dr. Helen Epstein, an American professor of human rights and public health with a special interest in Uganda and other countries in East Africa. Helen obtained a PhD in Molecular Biology from Cambridge University and an MSc in Public Health in Developing Countries from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical

Medicine. Since 2010, Helen has been a visiting professor of Human Rights and Global Public Health at Bard College in New York. In 1993,

Helen relocated to Uganda, where she worked on an AIDS vaccine research project and taught molecular biology in the medical school at Makerere University in Kampala. A vaccine against HIV remains elusive even now, and Helen witnessed firsthand the suffering caused by AIDS, which was the subject of her 2007 book, The Invisible Cure, why we are losing

the fight against AIDS in Africa. While working as a consultant in Uganda, Helen realized that despite massive donor investments in the health sector, the country's maternal and infant mortality rates weren't falling nearly as fast as those in other countries in the region. The reason wasn't hard to find. Uganda's institutions and leaderships were and remain highly corrupt and the international community has long turned a blind eye to the problem at the cost of thousands of lives

each year. Ugandan activists and politicians who have tried to draw attention to corruption have suffered arrest, torture and worse. At the center of this troubling story is Uganda's strategic military partnership with Washington in the global war on terror, which Helen describes in her 2017 book, Another Fine Mess, America, Uganda, and the War on Terror. In this episode, we discuss the topic, Uganda in a Multipolar Brave New World Order. Dr. Helen Epstein, Welcome. Thanks so much, Stephen.

On page 137 of your book, Another Fine Mess, you write, and I quote, I was first drawn to Uganda by its remarkable medical history. Well before colonial times, the people of this region had their own gods to distinguish plague from smallpox and perform cesarean sections, operations considered too difficult and dangerous by Europeans of the time. Helen, please tell us something about your childhood

and education. And how did your early life experience ignite your curiosity, which subsequently led to stumbling upon Uganda's remarkable medical history? Yeah, thanks so much. I guess I had a pretty ordinary American childhood. I grew up in New York in an apartment in the city in the 1960s. I was, but I always had a kind of wanderlust and my parents had a lot of books and they had a book about Africa. I think it was just pictures of animals, but it fascinated

me. And I used to canoe down the Nile on their Ottoman chair with a vacuum cleaner pole as as a paddle. So when I found myself after graduate school working as a lab scientist, I kind of began to wonder, how did I end up here? Why am I not in Africa? And those were the days of the, this was the late 1980s, early 1990s, the days of the AIDS crisis, which really hasn't gone away. I mean, the disease is very much still there, but it's now being managed much better than it was.

and back then the situation was really very dire. So I quit my job, which I didn't really like much anyway, and volunteered to help set up a little laboratory in Kampala at the main hospital, Belago, and did some experiments there. The team I was working for was trying to develop a prototype AIDS vaccine that was actually being tested in the United States, and they were trying to figure out whether

it might work in Uganda too. Unfortunately, this was a long time ago, but it turned out the vaccine didn't even work in the United States, much less much less Uganda. So I think actually in the last year or so recently, there is now some sort of, it's not really a vaccine, but it does, it's a drug that offers long-term protection against HIV. And I think it's now being, they're trying to prepare to distribute it to people across in many parts of the world now, which is,

which is very exciting. But back then there really was When I was really in the AIDS vaccine game, it was really clear that something else had to be done, and that's how I got interested in public health. Then within the topic of public health, I got particularly

interested in the issue of corruption. For diplomatic reasons, international public health experts don't talk about it much, but in Uganda and, of course, other countries, it's a major reason for the massive loss of life and particularly of infants' children

and mothers. That's what led me to an interest in Ugandan politics because really in the 1990s during the Clinton administration and even more so during the George W. Bush administration in the early 2000s, the United States was pouring huge amounts of money into Uganda for health programs, which was a good thing in many, many ways. But the ruling elites were stealing practically every shilling that wasn't nailed down. And no one outside

Uganda was saying anything about this. So I thought, let me try to draw some attention to the problem. And that's how I got interested in human rights, Ugandan politics, and so on. So here we are. On page 138 of your book, you write and I quote, Ugandan scientists helped pioneer treatment for childhood cancers and malnutrition and the mass immunization campaigns that UNICEF would later promote throughout the developing world. When Singapore was looking to reform its own healthcare system in the

1960s, it sent a delegation to Uganda. What you say, Helen, doesn't align with the perception that many of us have of modern-day Uganda. Our listeners must be intrigued. Can you please say more about these programs?

Well, even before colonial times, as you read, Uganda had a pretty sophisticated culture. Most of what we know is is from the historical record is about Uganda, but there were very sophisticated cultures throughout the country too. In Uganda, yeah, I was amazed. They were doing cesarean sections in the 1870s, which was pretty remarkable because they were not routine operations even in Britain at that time. and they were pretty dangerous

to do and pretty scary. They used banana wine both as antiseptic and as anesthetic for the women, but it was pretty rough. For whatever reason, I think the British, when they arrived and took over the country, they actually recognized that there was something. They recognized the humanity in a sense or the culture of Ugandans in a way that they didn't necessarily normally do in their empire elsewhere. For some reason, they decided to try to turn Uganda into a kind of intellectual

capital of their African empire. In the early scramble for Africa years, the late 19th century, early 20th century, when the British were first establishing their rule their officers did do some pretty terrible things in Uganda. They pitted tribes against each other. There were terrible massacres and

so on. It was absolutely awful. But when things settled down around the sort of getting towards the mid-20th century, in parallel with, unfortunately, ongoing repression, the British did build a kind of very sophisticated medical and also educational system there. There was a Makerere, which is the main university in Uganda. It was really the Harvard of Africa then. The novelists V.S. Naipaul and Paul

Theroux taught there. Attached to it was a very good hospital, Mulago, that Brits themselves, British people themselves went to. Researchers there pioneered these mass vaccination campaigns. They discovered the cause of a disease called Burkitt's lymphoma. They made other discoveries. They actually figured out how to deliver healthcare in poor countries. It was really quite remarkable. But what the British failed to do was create a culture of democracy, which would sustain

those kinds of services. You really need, there really is evidence actually that in order to maintain a public health system, democracy is the best way of doing that because everyone, when people don't get the services they deserve, they actually have a voice and can say something about it. and politicians will take notice, which they don't do in dictatorships. They can ignore the voice of the people. But the British kind of set

up Ugandan democracy to fail. They tried to create a parliamentary system that would manage the various tribal and regional interests of the people. But Uganda is an extremely diverse country ethnically. I like to think that democracy can still work in a place like that just as I like to think democracy can still work in the United States despite the challenges it's now facing. Democracy

is a very, very fragile thing. When the British left Uganda in the early 1960s, they created two power centers. First, a prime minister who was Milton Abote at the time. president, who at that time was the traditional king of Uganda, the largest tribe in the country. And these two men despised each other and they clashed almost at once. And Uganda subsequently, one thing led to another and Uganda soon became a symbol of African dysfunction within just a few short years. And that's really

where we are. Still, unfortunately, the situation has not much improved, even since the days of Idi Amin. We like to think that Idi Amin was the sort of apotheosis, the worst it can get as far as African governance goes. But in fact, the mayhem created under the current regime actually makes even the regime of Idi Amin look pretty good, to be honest. I'm afraid. Again, on page 138 of your book, you write, and I quote, today, this system is a shambles.

Bats, snakes, and other wildlife have taken up residence in once functioning rural clinics. I have seen fecal material rain down from crumbling ceilings of operating theaters. power cuts and water shortages, in hospitals kill thousands of patients each year, and emergency operations on pregnant women are sometimes carried out by the light of torches made from burning grass. Helen, how important is leadership to the health of a country?

And is it a reasonable and legitimate expectation that every person in any given nation state has a right to a public health infrastructure that is adequately resourced and operating properly? Well, a leadership is obviously crucial, I think. And as to whether it's reasonable for people to expect a functioning health system, well, I think so. I mean, Uganda, for example, has signed and ratified the UN Convention on Economic, Social and Cultural

Rights. which among other things, commits the government to do everything within its means to improve the health of the people, especially the health of women and children. Uganda isn't doing that. It has the resources to do a much better job. Many of the medicines that are available in the Ugandan healthcare system are donated by rich countries when they aren't stolen by somebody there. But doctors and other medical staff aren't paid adequately or on time. Their equipment repairs

aren't done. Buildings aren't maintained. It's really outrageous, really, and shouldn't ever happen. So, yeah, it's really a disgrace. And, you know, I thought things might get better when I wrote those words, now more than seven years ago, but it's, my understanding is things haven't gotten much better.

You write the following on page 218 of your book regarding something called the Atlantic Charter, an idealistic agreement signed by Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill on the eve of America's entry into World War II. And I quote, Roosevelt was almost certainly sincere about the sentiments contained in the Atlantic Charter. He had expressed similar views eight months earlier in his Four Freedoms speech, calling for freedom of speech and religion and freedom from fear

and want everywhere in the world. It was this last phrase that worried FDR's advisors. That covers an awful lot of territory, Mr. President, speechwriter Harry Popkin said at the time. I don't know how interested the American people are going to be in the people of Java. I'm afraid they will have to be someday, Harry, the president replied. The world is getting so small that even the people in Java are getting to be our neighbors

now. Please talk to us about the Atlantic Charter and Do the sentiments expressed in the Atlantic Charter apply equally to black Africans in a nation state such as Uganda? Should the American people care? 1941, he called for freedom everywhere. And Yeah. Americans have a lot of problems of their own right now, especially when it comes to their own, our own freedoms, actually. You know, books take a long time to see the

light of day. Another fine mess from which that passage came was published in 2017, but it was mostly written in 2015 and 2016 when Barack Obama was still the president and America was still seen to be the sort of reigning light of democracy in the world, or at least it was seen that way by many

people. But I felt that America really hadn't been doing as good a job, at least since World War II, as it could have, and really lived up to its ideals or the ideals expressed by FDR in the Atlantic Charter and also in the For Freedom speech. After FDR died, we'd undermine democracy in Chile and Guatemala and Iran, participated in coups in all those countries. We'd messed up, we'd messed up Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia, Liberia and Congo. We'd backed the apartheid system in

South Africa for far too long. Then there was Nicaragua and El Salvador, where we backed anti-democratic forces in those countries, and also not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan. And then, so when I arrived in Uganda and I realized we were supporting a corrupt dictatorship there too, it was depressing. Why were we doing this? FDR really was serious when in I still agree with him, although it's kind of a lonely attitude. But I'm not sure human

beings are capable of it. And I fear greatly that we, you know, we could destroy ourselves before we get there. Anyway, the bottom line is that Americans right now are preoccupied with their own problems, which of course have to do with our own democratic future, which seems to be in some peril. And I think the lesson is really that our leaders have never really believed in it. And if they can so easily undermine democracy elsewhere in other countries like Uganda, why not here

too? In a way, we shouldn't be surprised by what's happening to us now, given what we've done overseas. And unfortunately, I don't think many Americans are caring much about Uganda, except a few of us here. But as long as we maintain a donor relationship with the country and partner with its military, we really have to care. I mean, as long as the Museveni regime is our ally, it's our responsibility too. That's my concern.

Your book, Another Fine Mess, applies a scalpel to a festering wound, cutting deep to the very bone, as it were. In a chapter entitled Murder in Uganda, you write on page 182 the following, and I quote, since 2006, Irish, French, Italian, American, and Chinese companies had been scrambling for a foothold in what was estimated to be a 400 billion petroleum reserve in Western Uganda near the Congo

border. In Africa, the discovery of oil typically amplifies corruption by swelling the rivers of patronage that keep leaders in power. There was every reason to believe Uganda would be no exception. Farther down in the chapter, you write on page 187, thus, and I quote, Alice had spoken to Cerinah earlier. She had seemed fine, but the man insisted she was at a hospital in a neighborhood called

Nsambya. Because of the traffic, Alice couldn't get there quickly, so she called Cerinah's stepfather, who wove through the traffic on a hired motorcycle taxi. By the time he arrived, Cerinah was dead. Now, 400 billion in US dollars is a significant number. But Helen, are dead black Africans the price of doing business in the new world order, where great powers are vying against each other for access to natural resources on

the African continent? And Helen, where does fighting climate change fit into the complicated balance of developing a poor African country, such as Uganda, while at the same time protecting her rich biodiversity?

Thanks for that. Well, this is really the greatest challenge in that region of Africa right now. At the moment, Uganda is forging ahead with the East African crude oil pipeline, which will funnel oil from the west of Uganda and eventually from Eastern Congo and South Sudan as well via Tanzania to the coast. And in the process, it will destroy precious ecosystems, kill off wildlife, displace thousands

of people. There's a war in Eastern Congo right now that few people know about, but a lot of people there are being killed in it. And it's partly about oil, which Uganda is trying to control. All that oil is also going to release tons and tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, which will accelerate global warming and create more hurricanes, wildfires, deadly tornadoes and droughts and raise sea levels. There's a really inspiring campaign to stop the East African crude oil

pipeline. and to target particularly the companies involved with it, including the multinational Total Energies, which is an American-French, Franco-American, largely multinational company, the Chinese National Overseas Oil Company, the Standard Bank of South Africa, the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, and Sumitomo Mitsui Bank of Japan. Everyone needs to join the movement against that against that pipeline, not just

to save Uganda, but to save the world. And also regarding the case of Cerinah Nebanda, the passage you read was about the young member of parliament, only 24 years old, who was a fearless campaigner against corruption, particularly in the oil sector in Uganda. She was only one of many prominent Ugandans who have died or been severely disabled, almost certainly at the hands of the Ugandan

regime in recent years. Of course, there have been no transparent, independent investigations, but it's very dangerous to be an activist in Uganda. And that's why people from the outside world really need to step in and help out. especially regarding this very dangerous pipeline, which will not only destroy the world, but will also very much empower further the regime at the moment that's existing there.

2020, you published a powerful piece in the The title of our podcast is Uganda in a Multipolar Brave New World Order. On November 25th, New York Review of Books entitled In Uganda, another Museveni crackdown in which you concluded thus, and I quote, of course, the diplomats see what's going on, but they must operate within a cruel system of foreign aid and subaltern military relationships in which rich countries hire poor armies to do their

dirty work. Call it Cold War realpolitik or the global war on terror It amounts to a modern form of colonialism, even if Washington now terms it partnership. The donor cynicism boils down to the same kind of racism that prevailed in colonial times, born of vastly unequal power relations. In order to stuff a dictator's pockets so his forces will fight their wars, it is necessary to regard the

lives of African people as expendable. Helen, given our podcast theme and the coming dark age of global lawlessness, is access to natural resources in Africa a critical national security concern for the US that supersedes all other considerations such as freedom, democracy, and the rule of law? And how, Helen, would you advise a little insignificant nobody like myself to help me influence the United States of America to reevaluate a foreign policy in the Great Lakes region of Africa?

It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I think we all feel very small at the moment, given what's going on in the world. So I don't know, but keep doing what you're doing, talking to people and trying to get different viewpoints out there. Really, everyone must help where they can and do what they can. I think joining a campaign like Stop ECOP, or the East African Crude Oil Pipeline, would be a great place to start. Anyone can do that. Anyone. There are demonstrations going on all the time.

Sign a petition. Join a demonstration. Become informed. Try to convince the people around you to care about the issue, too. It's something that affects everyone, especially the people of the future, wherever they live. It's really an existential problem. It's absolutely crucial. So I guess, yeah, that's the best advice I can think of. And finally, Helen, please advise our listeners where they may find your book, Another Fine Mess.

Thanks so much. My book is available through Amazon.com and other online booksellers, or you can ask your local bookshop to order it. Dr. Helen Epstein, thank you very much for being a guest on this podcast. Many thanks for having me, Stephen. This podcast was brought to you by the Kamugasa Challenge in partnership with Democracy in Africa. Democracy in Africa is a platform dedicated to building a bridge between academics,

policymakers, practitioners, and citizens. The fifth episode in the series is entitled, How Critical is Democracy in a Multipolar World? An interview with Professor Nick Cheeseman, a political scientist and Professor of Democracy and International Development at the University of Birmingham, specialising in democracy, elections and African politics. The podcast

will go live on October 14th, 2024. If you enjoyed this podcast, please support us by subscribing to Conversations with Stephen Kamgassa through your favourite podcast app. Thank you very much for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Until next time, goodbye.