Conversations with... My Sister

on the planet my best friend, my big sister. If you guys have been following me for a while, you know Bella from my YouTube channel and we used to post a lot of stuff on there when we were in our like early teenage years to mid teenage years, and now we're both in our early twenties and I don't think you guys have really seen or heard from my sister in a few years. So with all of that being said, please welcome my big sister, Bella said was up was a big guys. Bella is a year

older than me. We're twelve months twelve days apart to the tea, and I think before we jump into this conversation, we kind of talked about certain things we want to touch on and uh, things we want to be open with you guys about, and just some things that I think you guys can relate to and Also, I did a little Instagram pole and asked you guys to ask us some questions. So we're going to do some of

those as well. But I first want to introduce Bela and so you guys get to know her a little bit and what she's been up to the last few years. You started writing a script with her really great friend Jamie, who went to n y U for theater, right, And I think from kind of what like we've talked about, Bella basically started journaling I would say, like two and a half years ago, right when we really went through

our family stuff. I think that was kind of her outlet to like express her emotions basically, And so I think it started with you journaling and kind of getting back into writing, especially because we hadn't been in school for quite some time, so it's not like we had to do papers anymore. So I think you kind of got back into writing by like starting with your emotions.

And then I think you thought, you know, even though everything that had happened, and we can touch on this in a little bit too, but you kind of felt like this was a new passion or maybe an old passion that was like re sparked from an emotional like journaling standpoint, and then you guys got into script writing right sort of kind of yeah, pretty much, but it really was Jamie coming back to l A and being like, I want to just try and write something, and I

was like, I'm down to write it with you. And since we were in she's been my best friend since I was five and since we were in high school, we always talked about how but it would be to create a show kind of based on growing up in l A, but more accurate than nine O two and No was because nine O two and No is a very well, it's like a cub show that very scripted,

but it's not. This show is scripted too, but it's just not The teenagers don't talk like teenagers do, and they don't because it's written by grown men, so they don't have the same experiences to girls growing up in l A and actually understanding the ins and outs of l A. So we just decided to start writing that and it kind of it was almost a joke at first, and then it kind of took off and we both

enjoyed it so much. And then we have a friend who's a writer and he helped us because we neither of us have taken screenwriting classes or anything, and he kind of helped us formulate the script and learned that he gave us like a mini master class on writing. So he helped us like create the ideas and make them flow together and actually be able to tell a story.

And we started just writing about loosely based off of things we've been through, and the idea of the story is to touch upon how although that problems are relative and I the thing I love about acting and storytelling itself is that you get to play a character and you get to learn about them and their ins and outs, and you can play There's just a wide range and

there's a wide range of people on this earth. So being able to write a story on something that like we've been we've gone through ourselves was very cool and it also kind of taught me a lot about myself and everything too, because we were able to access these emotions and create scenes around things that we were feeling at the time, and boys and like we do a scene from elementary school when we're like twelve, and we

do all these different things and it was funny. We got to reminisce on the past and then we also got to like it's very cathartic. We got to work through our own and our favorite thing about story writing and storytelling is you get to create your own endings. It happens the way you wanted to happen, like the

perfect version in your head. You get to put that on paper, and even though it doesn't happen in real life, there's something fun knowing that that story lives on in a different world, different world completely Um Okay, Well, I think that gives you guys like a unroll idea of what the script is sort of about. But basically, like I've read it, it's really really good. I hope it gets picked up and you guys can actually work on this and make this and this audience will for sure

tune in once that happens. But that's down the line. But I just wanted to give you guys a little bit of a background backstory on what Bella has been up to. So she is an acting school. You said you didn't take screenwriting class, but she's been taking theater in a conservatory for like a year and a half,

almost two years. But you also have been acting since you were like fifteen, Because I remember we used to do this young acting academy called Cynthia Baines's studio, and I quit after like a week of being there because they gave you. They gave her a scene from Oh No, I'm forgetting what the Matt Damon and Ben Affle like movie? I don't remember. I just don't. How about them apples? Good Will Hunting? They gave you the scene from good Will Hunting and it scared you and you never came back.

I was I was like fourteen or fifteen, maybe sixteen, and you were fifteen and I was sixteen. No, we were fourteen and fifteen because we couldn't drive yet. Yeah, but anyway, I was not down for that scene. It's like a very sexual, romantic scene with the other guy in the class, and I just after that, I was like, this is not for me. I cannot put myself into that type of character. And that was kind of the

end of my acting days. But Bell has been really into it for quite some time, and so it's been really cool seeing you, like the last few years, like really dive into it and put yourself kind of like

fully into that acting mode. Following a mom's footsteps. Um, so I kind of want to segue because when I asked on Instagram, a lot of the questions or topics that people ask just about where everything that's happened, you know, in the last few years in our family, And I just wanna start by saying, I think the promise I've made to myself is I really want to be open

on this podcast. I want to be vulnerable. I think that really helps people, whether we're in completely different situations or you can relate to a certain piece of what we're talking about. Um, I think it's just really important

that I am honest. But I don't want my honesty to be mistaken as me ever trying to victimize us or what happened in the last few years, because I think with so much time and so much thought and um, everything that's happened, like we both have a really clear perspective on that, like we were are, like this situation was, like we can just say that we're in the wrong, And so I don't want that to ever be no matter what the details are, what people do and don't know, Like,

I don't want that generic kind of topic to be twisted that I'm sitting here asking about like mental health and what we went through the last few years and people saying like, are they seriously like complaining about this? Like, you know what I mean, I don't think it would be. I don't know how to phrase this because I don't want to take away other people's thoughts. But if you really think about it in a grand scheme of life type thing, it's not complaining. It's using the experience as

we have. You only live one life, you only get a certain path yourself. You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes, so you have to take what you've been through and learn from that. And that's what talking about it and working through it does. And we this is the situation. These are the cards we were dealt, So to just not talk about it seems wrong in a way because it has made us. But it's definitely affected

us a lot. It's affected us, and it's also taught us different things and opened our eyes to new like perspectives and things we didn't even think about before. And it's we're not talking about it to garner pity or be the victims in a situation, but it is really life and what we went through, so it would be

weird to just not talk about it at all. So a lot of fans were messaging and just asking, you know, like what the last few years have looked like and how it's been going through everything that happened in our family.

And I also want to say that there's a lot of stuff that I wish, like, especially now that because we haven't done any like interviews together, like this is our first time, like me and you just talking and like just being open and UM, there's so much I would like to say and clear up and go through every single thing that's ever been written imposed about us and be like that's not true or this came from that, or um, just explain like quote unquote, like I don't

know how to put this, but just like at the time, what like we thought was going on or stuff like that. But we literally can't because it is a federal case and I don't feel like messing with the government. So I want to kind of focus on where we've been mental health wise and kind of taking care of that

and how it's affected us. Because I also think besides just the legal side of things, like that's something that I know a lot of young girls and boys and people listening can relate to, um, whether like regardless of your situation. I know that everybody, like a lot of people go through mental health, and I think for me, mine was very situational. What about for you, I know, well I know all of this, but like you've always struggled a little bit with like anxiety. Yeah, I've always

had a bit of anxiety. Um ironically enough, I realized it when I was going to college. I remember the first night before I left to go move into the dorms. I was mom and dad were out at dinner and it was me, you and your high school boyfriend. And then I remember I was trying to fall asleep, like get a good night's sleep. I had moved in day the next day, and like I woke up like hyperventilating and my heart was beating really fast, and I ran downstairs to you and Tie and I was like, I'm

I'm having a heart attack. I'm having a heart atack. I'm having a heart attack, and Tyler was like, no, you're not, You're not, You're not. I'm like, I just I looked it up web MD said it I'm having a heart attack, Like I need to go to the hospital right now. And it turned out I was just having like a really bad panic attack and it's the same exact um symptoms as not symptoms. I don't know that. Yeah, I get what you're saying, a heart attack. And that's

when I realized it. And I remember when I would even like sleep in the dorms, I would be like falling asleep and then I would wake up hyperventilating and like freaking out for I was asleep, Like I don't know, but I guess like that's when my anxiety like manifested most. Is like right as I was falling to sleep, I would like come up like gas spring for air and kind of I've always been like a little ball of anxiety.

Even when I was younger, like I didn't speak a lot, I was very shy just because I was so scared. I've grown out of it, I guess kind of with everything that's also happened, I realized, like you can't like let anxiety rule your life. But I remember that was there was a lot of it was hard to like talk and you were always like super talkative and like you were like the social, outgoing one, and I was like always just like standing there like behind not saying

anything because I was scared. Yeah, well that's so normal.

And I know so many people can definitely relate to that, and I feel like, you know, what's funny, I think for me, I had and I mean I never really had anxiety growing up, because I even remember, ironically, when I got to college and I said to one of my really good friends there, Olivia, who's still like a sister and best friend to this day, but I was and she has anxiety too, like most people, and so I was talking to her and she was like, how

anxiety about something? And I was like, what does that feel like? Like? What is that? Cut to literally six months later, everything erupted and exploded and I was like, oh, this is what she was talking about six months ago, and it kind of started to make sense to me. But I feel lucky that I didn't have it like growing up, and I got to really have like a clear, I feel like understanding of who I was without letting that like kind of fuzz myself at a younger age.

But now I know that it's like almost hard for

me to escape it. And that's why my last episode on the podcast, I had like that life coach Possibilitarian is what she called herself, where she just used the world as like anything as possible um come in because I was like, I'm very stressed and I need somebody that has like actual skills to come break it down for me, because I literally never thought I would get to this point where I have alopecia, which is an autoimmune disease when your head or when your hair falls

head falls off, when your hair falls out, and it's just like shown physically on me. So now I really understand it. I feel like I have a question for you that I've always kind of wondered. I don't think we've really talked about it well for the viewers. The first for you when everything was happening, like when we were going through the whole thingy thing with our family, the thing imaging, what were you feeling, Because I almost wondered, not that at the time it was nice being it

was quite the opposite. It was never like fun or enjoyable seeing my name in the headline. And I think if I was younger, I would have been like, oh my gosh, that's so cool, not the context of what was being said, but me being talked about that much, I would have been like, wow, like this is amazing.

But given what it was, and it was also negative, and it was very heavily focused on Mom and I. What were you kind of feeling like during that time, Like did you almost feel like your experience was under my mind? Or were you happy to be like out of that public like I and you didn't have to deal with I mean you had to deal with it, but not as on a big of a scale. I

would say, like the hatred and uh stuff like that. Um, there was times where like certain things were going on and I was like, I don't feel like what's happening to me is being necessarily heard or acknowledged on the scale that it should be, just because there was something bigger going on at the time. But I think just the hardest part of this entire thing was watching how horrible or reading and seeing how horrible the media was to both you and Mom and actually knowing you guys,

and knowing Mom has the biggest heart. And can I tell my story? My teacher told me, yeah, of course, like this is just an example of who our mom is. And this story comes from literally last week. I was I'm doing a play right now, and the director and my teacher pulled me aside after class and he's like, hey, can I chat with you for a second, and I was like, of course, I thought we were going to be discussing the play and my work, but he was like,

your mom's Laurie Laughlin. And I was like, and sometimes that now nowadays that scares me because I'm like, oh, oh no, what was what opinion do you have? You know, like, and he was like, I just wanted to let you know, like one of my first jobs as a young actor was on Full House and that cast all of them were so so nice, but your mom specifically made sure that I felt welcomed, made me comfortable, like made sure that I was as comfortable in a new space that

I can be. And he was telling me that now when he works and he does other shows and whatnot, when he's a series regular, a guest or whatever, he told me that he took what mom taught him that day and emulates it on every single set he's on to make sure that whoever is there with him feels

welcomed in that situation. And he said for a young actor, he was so scared to even just go and be on such a big sitcom at the time, like it was huge for him and he was only in a few scenes and Mom made him feel so comfortable and at home, and it's resonated with him for the last thirty years, to the point where he pulled me aside and told me, and of course like, I'm like crying

as he's telling me something that's so sweet. And he was even saying like he has other friends in the industry who have done guest spots and been on different shows that Mom has been on, and across the board not I don't think one person who's ever worked with Mom can say something bad about her, because she's genuinely the nicest person alive. Yeah, I agree. I think that

was hard for me to like seeing. And this is what I was kind of talking about in the beginning, where I'm like, I'm not trying to justify or excuse behavior or throw a pity party, or because I get so nervous and I know this is my podcast and I'm not in an interview, and I can be open and vulnerable, especially with these guests that are listening, and I so appreciate that. But the guests that are listening, I did I say the guests. I meant the listeners

that are listening. Audience, audience, Um, I almost said the viewers after that, which also wouldn't have made much sense. Um, but I do, I do very heavily relate to like those feelings that you were just kind of saying about Mom, and um, I think for me, even though I also is getting dragged negatively, it like didn't nearly affect me as much as like seeing Mom getting first of all, having all this throne on her, and I think that

we can talk about this. I think I want to talk about this that um, she really took this whole thing and on her back and solely you know, like there are a lot of people that were in this case, and a lot of other parents, and I do not know one other person's name, and I think that for being her kid, and you know, all drag myself and all rose myself, and I won't forgive myself forever, probably and I will always, you know, have that as my

defense mechanism and partly a little bit of truth. But when you see her mom, who's raised you and who's been like nothing but a ghost, like the most incredible mother in the world, and also just like the kindest heart, and like knowing what you know and knowing like how much we know about her and how well we know her. Obviously we are both directly out of her womb, so

we know or proudy damn well, pretty damn well. But I think that was really hard for me, and UM, it was frustrating and it caused a lot of like anger within me when I would read stuff about her. And I just think it's interesting that when I would read stuff about myself, I just didn't really I mean, it affected me, I cared, but it didn't nearly affect me the same way that UM if I read it

about our own mom. You know. I also think with the media specifically, if you just watch the pattern of tabloids in general, they always pick a woman and they take her down. I agree. I think women definitely are dragged in the media quite often. And I also think that besides just women being dragged in the media, I think that the media, in my opinion, and I could talk about this for ages and I didn't know when

I would end up talking about this publicly. But I feel like the perfect guest to talk about it with is my sister, because she's heard a lot of it, be she's kind of been through it with me and with herself, and I feel like we also just both have a lot of opinions on this, and I think

it would be interesting to touch on um. But for me, I just feel like the media is extremely hypocritical, I think, regardless of our situation, forget us, I just think in general, it's all about preaching this anti bullying, uh, non bandwagon effect and how everybody should be so understanding of one another.

And then you have people like let's say, Megan markele right, who's gotten dragged through the media for living basically for dating guys exactly, and just we could list a million examples, but I do feel like they preach this, oh my gosh, like we are so on it, we are so not for bullying, We're so against bullying, and and then you

see the next thing. You know, it's like, even after the Oprah interview that Megan Markel did is what I had in mind, and I watched that and I had sympathy for her, you know, like I was like, that

sounds like a very traumatic time to go through. And I then was reading articles throughout like the next week that would show up on my phone or whatever it was, and they were all still so terribly negative, and I was like it's almost like no one just listened to anything she just said, Like those are regardless, if you relate, regardless, if she's in a way way bigger position of privilege and success and overwhelming wealth and all the things that

so many people dream of, it's still like, for some reason people then negate her feelings and act like, oh, well, she's lying, and we're still going to drag her through the mud and screw this because it's one person verse a bunch of money and a bunch of clicks for these media outlets. And that gets me so freaking angry.

And also I think this is my own theory, but in specifically our society today with social media, with the access to your d m s for example, and what not, people think they know you now or and with TikTok and like people even like you're you, you're you, you're a YouTuber. You let people into your life to a certain degree. Reality TV shows let people into their lives to a certain degree. And so now the general consensus of the world is anyone who is in the public eye,

you can pry into their personal life. And there's something special about being able to keep your own life private, and it doesn't need You don't owe it to anyone else to explain who you're dating, what you're feeling, what's going on in your life. And everyone thinks they have this right to just be inside your head and know what's going on and who you're seeing, and what's this and what's that, and and I think that's just natural human like instinct is to be nosy, is to be curious,

and to be nosy. But I think social media has heightened that and almost made it a little bit like unacceptable to the point of like what we're prying for, or the degree that like paparazzi and people like go to get these answers to these questions that are floating around. And I know for myself, I've almost been in like quite a few car accidents running my fro. When I was coming to you, what time are you coming to me? I remember I was leaving I guess I can say

Udine because we don't live there anymore. When I was leaving Udine to meet you Malibu and that girl, I okay, context for you guys um for March two December kind of COVID hit and then like the paparazzi were no longer outside of our house, but from March to October November December ish, it was there were there a lot, and there was every day at least three cars outside of our house waiting for one of us to leave.

And Olivia luckily had her own escape. She wasn't really around at the house, but any time I would leave the house, the second you pull out of that driveway, there's a car literally at the ass of your car. I don't have to explain it, bumper to bumper there right behind you, and God forbid, you have to slam on your brakes. You're done. You are getting in a car accident there so close to you. They're writing your tail and it's one so invasive too, super dangerous, super

legal and dangerous. They're like, I remember one time there was a woman driving behind me and she had her camera out while she was driving, and I was like, Yo, you can't even text and drive and you're recording me as you drive your car right now. This is so dangerous and they will go to all extremes. They don't care who they will harm in the way. It seems like they just want to get the photo. Yeah, and those answers is kind of like how we got into this.

It's like I get it too, especially like for me, I feel like I made myself public on YouTube before all of this happened, so then when it was happening, I was like, I kind of signed up for it, Like I did post videos talking about things that I very much regret, and I was very open about my life, and I showed our homes growing not like actually like cow stores or anything, but you know, it would be

in the background of mom would ever let you do that. Never, but when like in the background of the videos, you know what I mean. And so I feel like I almost felt like I was more deserving of it because I was like, well, I did sign up to be a public figure, but for you leaving the house, like, who's very much never tried to be. I mean, your Instagram is public, but you're not posting like you post you know what you're posting on there, And I would

say it kind of accidentally became public. It wasn't something you like tried to do and like establish a career from or be online. So I know that was definitely like weird for you too, because you were trying to live like a private life in your like late teens, young twenties, and you had a lot of people following you and looking at you, and it's just like a really unnatural situation, and um so I just, yeah, I

kind of like feel for you a little bit. But the paparazzi are definitely like and I'm not trying to paths, I'm not trying to sound like but like, it wasn't real. That was actually what was happening. It's not to be like you. I wish they weren't there. Yeah, same, but it definitely was like a real time. But I just remember almost getting into like quite a few car accidents just because they're so reckless. And I even remember one time Bella and I were in a CVS. I think

this is just a story I was. I think I had like something I was either on my period or I had like a U T I or something that was like very girly and personal. And I was nineteen and now we'll talk about it twenty two. I don't care. I feel like years have passed. I'm very open, like it's we're human beings, it's just life. But I think I was getting some medication or a box of tampons or whatever it was, and we're in this drug store

and I kid, you know, I look around. There's seven paparazzi inside, illegal inside the drug store, all filming me grabbing this like personal like medicine care or whatever it was. And I remember Bella got really into like big sister protective mode and went up to one of the crying. I know because I was so when you started crying. So I I was like, m and I walked up to the paparazzi and I was like, excuse me, sir, you actually cannot be inside here taking photos. This is illegal.

You can't be this is it's not private property, but you can't be. Like paparazzi are allowed to stand outside of a writer or cvs and take photos, but they're not allowed to directly come inside. And I walked up to him, calmly at first, and I was like, first ward here and I was like, you can't be. You can't be taking these photos in here? Can you please leave? And he was like what's it to you? And he's sassing me back. So so Bella is a very sarcastic, sassy,

very powerful woman. I would say, did not take I was now out of the bathroom, kind of like hiding behind an aisle watching Bella. Just I'm absolutely slaughter this man with words. I'm not giving up. I'm like, you cannot be here. This is illegal. Like I will call the police. Do you want to get into this? I won't leave. I'll stay here and I'll wait for the police to come. Do you want to go because I'll wait, and like, I'm like fighting with this man. Meanwhile, the

fight is slowly escalating. We're like now in the middle of CVS screaming at each other and I'm yelling at this guy, being like, just get out, leave the CVS and he's like and then the security from the CVS comes erm and he's like, what's wrong? And I was like, this man is taking photos of us. This is an invasion of our space. He is not allowed to be in the store. That security cards like, she's right, so

you have to leave. Meanwhile, they're like Papa Razzi everywhere record to pull up this video, but it's somewhere online. I don't think you can hear the audio, but you can see my hands like flying all over the place. And then this was the craziest part. We're getting in the elevator because the CVS. The parking lot was located like by an elevator, and I'm oh, this is the best part. I'm like, give me your give me your SIM card. And he's like I'm not giving I'm like,

give me your SIM card. And we're like arguing. I'm like, I want your SIM card, give me your SIM card right now. And he's like, I'm not giving you my SIM card. I'm like, you're giving me your SIM card. We're like, I'm like screaming at him, like give me the SIM card, and he won't give me the SIM card and then give you SIM. I thought that if I pushed it enough, maybe he would and then or I was like and then I was like, fine, if you're not gonna give it to me, I want to

watch you to leave the photos. I want to watch you delete these photos. This is illegal. You cannot be by the way, these photos all came out online. Um they there was no deleting happening. They didn't. He heleted them, and then he had there's a thing on a camera where you can get back the deleted photos. So this sneak he deleted them and then as okay, keep in mind I was yelling at this man. Finally, Olivia is like, okay, can we just go, like please, you don't need to

engage in this anymore. I was like fine, and we're like leaving, And as we're leaving, I see him go up to the guy who works the counter at CVS and he's like, how much do I have to pay you? The elevator hasn't been called yet, and he's like, how much do I have to pay you to get the security footage of the camera above us? And I looked at the guy who was like working behind the desk, and the guy was like, I'm so sorry, sort of like I don't want to lose my job. I'm not

giving this to you. I don't know what guy asked for security footage of me yelling at him, and the guy behind the desk was like, first off, these are two very young girls. What you just did was highly inappropriate. Second off, no, I'm not giving you the footage. You came into the store took photos of them, hurt like I was like, borderline tears. I'm screaming at this man,

and the guy was like I'm not. He's like, I'm not losing my job for you to get me like sorry, and the guy was like, how much do I have to pay you to get security? But this guys like leave, actually leave the store, and then he had to leave the store to security, and security escorted a few of them out, and then I remember walking out of CVS and that same dude that you were in the fight with came up with his oh my god, both his arms up like in our face, like yelling like I'm

gonna help you. See I'm hoping, I'm hoping, I'm nice going, I'm hoping, And I was just like, dude, I swear to God, right now, I'm gonna like take this little bag that I have from CDs and hit you right upside your face. Remember you get out of my personal bubble, Like this was enough. You already took photos of me buying something that at the time I felt very ashamed and embarrassed about. I was crying, I'm not leaving the store.

Now you're all up in my face with your arms like waving in front of me, saying like you're a good guy and you're trying to help me. Like it

was so bizarre. But anyway, I guess that's just a story that I tangent a weird tangent, but a story of just like I think, and that's where I was kind of bring it back to the idea that the media like people, I want to see and expect so much from you, but like something as simple as a U T. I like, y'all don't need to know about that, Like as I talked about it, Let the nineteen year old deal with it in her the privacy of being a nineteen year old, you know, like that's it's just

so wrong. And I think also with the way back then when like people were getting paparazzi and stuff, there was a different culture around it. Even in the early nineties, it was a different culture because there wasn't social media.

There weren't reality TV stars really necessarily. It was like a very different thing where it's like you saw people when they were going to their movie premieres or their concerts or like sometimes at restaurants, but it wasn't so much in your face of like daily life, daily life.

And then over time and with I think it was kind of the creation of reality TV in my opinion, that people started to think any celebrity across the board something, but it's they're not reality TV stars, they're actors, they're singers, they're they'll drop an album and like release their and the Also, not all reality TV stars want that attention either. That's why I like, although they're they're famous for showing their life, that doesn't mean they need to show every

single part of their life. That's why it's their show and they get to curate what goes out publicly, you know. So it's just a very big I feel like, speaking from experience, it's a super traumatic, especially at a young age. And b it's just it's just wrong. It feels wrong, and that's that period. Moving on from the paparazzi, how do you think everything that's happened affected our relationship? Bella also, and let me just preface, bell and I have also

like grown up super super close. Like we're as I said in the beginning, we're only a year apart, like we've always been back to our mom does call it built and best friends, um, but we've always been like super super close. But I do think for me, it was like us getting closer as I could confide in you because we were going through the exact same thing. And I feel like that's something that you know, I had amazing friends and an amazing support system that like

we're there for me. But I feel like, um, you were the only person that like genuinely understood what and just how scary it all felt at the time, like being so like kind of like, yeah, we really like when all this happened, like we really didn't know what was going on or what was going to happen, and we were both out of town and we both had to come home obviously and like see what was going on, and so I think there were just like a lot of unknowns that caused a lot of fear and anxiety

for me, and that was just really the start of it. But yeah, that's I think like for me, we got really really close because we could really relate to each other and then of course you just always being like my best friend and big sister. But I also feel like, do you feel like we got closer during that time? I think that was like the catalyst for how close

we are now. Because in high school we were obviously really close, but on Fridays and Saturdays, like you'd go to your thing with your girls, I'd be with my girls, like we'd be with the people in our grade, and we never really there were some nights we crossed over and that was always really really fun, but there wasn't a lot of crossover in high school. And then I think when all of this went down, there was like a three month time period where we couldn't leave the house.

We just had to stay inside because it was a mess if we left, and it was insane. And so I think that is one thing that brought us closer together. And then it kind of are in a way, are two circles meshed into one, because now we go out together, we get dinners together with all of our friends, and there's not a divide as much as there kind of once was, which was like the high school. Just like I think also that had to do with us both

being out of school. Now it's like there weren't grades, but when obviously we were in high school and even in college in the beginning, like I had my grade, you had it. And then obviously when we were both done with that, we shared a lot of the same friends that I had graduated that weren't in school anymore, and we all just kind of became like a big mesh together group like childhood friends and just really reunited again. Um,

I want to talk about a little bit. We don't have to get like two into it if you don't want to, But I do think let's chat. I saw a lot of questions about boys and breakups and how to deal with that and how to deal with heartbreak, and I think you can give them like a really good perspective on heartbreak, especially it just ties into everything we're also talking about with the situation, because I'll give

them like a little backstory, if that's fine. Bella basically was dating this boy for a year, basically a year or so, and um, yeah, you guys were very much like happy, and I thought, like very much in love and it was I thought the same thing. It was all very positive, cute whatever. Um. And then when this all came out in the media, I mean we found out with his world and the world about what was going on. And uh, I think that, well, I know that just a few days after it all came out,

he called you and broke up with you. Yeah. Um, what was like going through your mind back then? I mean that was it was hard because on top of being heartbroken, I was dealing with whatever it was that was going on in our life. And that was and it was so early on at that point, like it was we found out, world found out March twelve. I got dumped March sixteen, four days later. So at that point I didn't I hadn't even been a week yet, Like I didn't, I didn't know what was going on.

It was we were literally taking life minute by minute those days, and we didn't know what the future had in store. And I remember I was like beating myself up about it at one point because like I remember when it first all happened, I was like talking to him and then I was like, oh did I like because you know, when you go through a break up at first, it's like you blame yourself for the entire or breakup when you get dune, So I was like, oh, did I put too much on him? Like did I

scare him from like all this? And then I look back on it and no, I was doing what you do when you have a boyfriend and you talk to them when you're scared and sad and you don't know what's going on. And it was really hard because it was so the what had happened was so fresh, then the breakup was so fresh, and then I'm dealing with both things at once. And this was like my first real heartbreak, so like it was like the first boyfriend.

And I'm sure if you've ever been like your first real heart like I remember, you cried yourself to sleep for months on end, and there was nothing else on top of it. So it was really hard to go through a breakup and then also have something even bigger and honestly more important on top of it, because all I wanted to do was like cry and more in my relationship, and I couldn't. I mean, I finished all

of Game of Thrones in a month. I the break diet, like I literally couldn't eat, which was and I remember Bella dropped like twenty pounds in a week. I kid you know, I literally got so skinny, and it was so scary terrifying because and it wasn't. I wasn't by choice. I Like I remember our friend Olivia, who already kind of talked about earlier. She would come over every single night with just plain grilled chicken because she was like, I don't know what's wrong with you. And she'd be like,

can you just eat the chicken? And I'd be like I can't, and like each night I would have like one bite of chicken, and then the next night she'd be like, Okay, can we have two bites of chicken? And like she was literally just trying to feed me because I couldn't eat, but it was hard. But the thing, the cheesiest thing that I will say is the only thing that helps you through or any like not helps you through. But the only thing that really is the

kealer is time. I knew you were going to say that, and and like with in my situation, it was I kid you not because he was like can we face to him today? And I when I got the text,

I was like, Okay, I know it's coming. I'm not an idiot, like we he wasn't speaking to me for like two days before and then like I even I don't know if I should be getting into this or not, but I even remember I sent a text being like, hey, it's like you're not feeling good about this right now, Like can you just let me know because I'm like really stressed out and like there's a lot of unknowns in my life and like this is adding so much more stress onto me right now, and I just I'm

giving you a clean out if you want out, like take it please, and you like respond like no calls immediately. I love you. I would never be cut. Two two days later, can we talk? And I was like alright, and he's like can we FaceTime? And I was like, no, you can call me. I'm not I don't want to do this over FaceTime, like I'm sad, I'm already going to be a mess. And he called me and he was like I don't know if I can quote him, but like he's like, you don't understand how hard this

is for me. And I was like on the and I was like how hard this is for you and like but it was like a five minute phone call and I was like fine, whatever, and I'm a I'm a kind of a freak and also like a believer in I'm not it takes a lot to get a second chance for me. And in that situation, I remember the last thing I said to him on the phone was I was like, if this is your decision, this is your decision, like you will never hear from me again. And I've stuck to it and I was like, you

will never hear from me again. And that was it and it ended, and There's was something about it that was so now looking back on it I'm so grateful for because I learned that, at least for me in a situation, that closure is somewhat overrated and you don't actually need closure in like when you're broken up. You're broken up. Closures an excuse to see them again or

talk to them again or whatever and whatnot. I think it's so dependent on the person and they're like history and their relationship to obviously, because like for a divorce

or something, but that's different that. But I'm saying like the baseline of like the closure, you're just saying from personal experience, like you never had to have that closure talking, so now I definitely moved on and you're okay and had boyfriends since and you've liked new boys and and we promise if anybody can relate to this obviously not the exact same situation, but just like heartbreak in general and that first love and you're just feeling like, oh

my gosh, my life is so over and oh the part where you like wake up and you're dreaming about them, and that morning you wake up and you're the worst, hyper ventilating out of your sleep, out of your dream. You're like, is this real? Is this happening, Like that's all such a real like thing from a heartbreak. But I think what Bell is saying is like in those

times too. I think a lot of us sometimes feel like, Okay, well, we still need to have that last conversation to explain why we broke up and how we're gonna move forward and blah blah blah blah blah, and like how we're going to deal with this and whatnot. And like I remember, I avoided a friend group for two years. I would

not get near them. I was terrified. I was like, I'm not I ain't doing this, Like what cross paths would not speak, would like see each other across the room, would not talk, like all these like weird things, and it's so bizarre because you're so close with someone for so long. And then I think that's like the hardest thing about heartbreak in general, is like you don't just

like miss somebody and like miss like the aspect. It's like they really are also like your best friend at the same time, and they know so much about you, So it kind of feels like a death because it's not one of those I mean, in certain situations, you can become friends down the line, but like it's not one of those situations where it's like, Okay, now we can just go back to being best friends how it started,

Like it never really is the same. And I saw a lot of people like asking to like about uh, like toxic relationships and how to get out of them, or like what to do if a boy doesn't like

you back? And I think my like umbrella answer to all of those would just be like no, you're worth and no, like if a guy is playing mind games with you and you're really hopeful he's going to change his mind, like John, but like if you're really hopeful about somebody like changing their entire personality for you, or like you being this like once in a lifetime sometimes

it is true, but like it really is rare. And I think for me, if I if I had a younger sister, I would say to them, which I feel like a lot of my audience younger older, I feel like we're like siblings, and like I can tell you, like I would say, you got to move forward and move on. And if if they come back around and they're really fighting for you, like I think that's a

different story. But like the games, the mind games, the the everything in between that you can think of that just like your classic f boy kind of like starter Pack does. Like it's just not going to change. Yeah, they have to grow up a lot. The only way someone is going to change is if then they want to change theirselves. It's you will never be able to

change someone. And then I think, on top of the knowing you're worth part, I remember reading some quote somewhere where it's essentially covered this idea that before you get into a relationship or before you pretty much a relationship or anything, you have to be okay with yourself because a boy coming into your life isn't gonna make you happier. It's not going to fix your who you are inside.

You need to be able to be or it could temporarily, but when they leave, it's still that empty feeling or if you leave them. Yeah, but yeah, that's true. But I think there's just something so important about becoming your own best friend, Like you are stuck with you until you die, Like there's and you you have your family and whatever, but truthfully, you are with you, so you have you've got to love you. You gotta. Yeah, I mean I always say, like, if you're confident enough to

go have a meal alone. You are capable of kind of doing anything, because that's so baller to be able to just go sit and eat and do your work, listen to music, listen to a podcast, and don't you worry about like people, like not care what other people think. It's like you're hanging out with yourself for the day. You need to have someone else around, like you're stuck with you, So learn to love yourself. Yeah, it's so true. It's so so true. You have to learn to love yourself.

I feel like that's kind of how you got through like your heartbreak too. It's like you really just became very independent and like did everything kind of alone. And besides I hanging with your friends on a normal basis, but like you really did have to like re teach yourself how to like not be dependent on somebody or to like text somebody first thing in the morning or

check in on somebody. And I think that really like healed you way faster than I thought you were going to heal to be honest, I think also, this is just a tip and trick for you lads and lassies out there when you go through a heartbreak. I remember telling you this somewhat recently, but I was like, find this is the craziest thing ever. Find a TV show, Find like a trilogy, find like a movie series, Find an actor you love, just watch all their ship I

kid you not. There's something so special about when you get locked into something that you really want to watch, that you really like, like mine, for examples, Game of Thrones. You don't think about what's going on in the moment because you're so focused on this story that's happening in front of you, and it in a way helps time pass.

And of course, like you have jobs and all of that stuff, but when you're sitting alone and you're in your own thoughts and you're breaking out, as everyone does when they're going through a breakup, if you're able to put your attention onto something else and take it away from yourself in that situation, it helps speed up the time, and it helps you want to learn to love yourself, teaches you like new things about yourself in a way. And also it's a really good distraction because what's going

on in your actual situation. Yeah, and I think like the last thing I'll say before you wrap up this episode is like for the last my last podcast, episode with Shari that possibilitary and life coach. I think this is just really fitting for what we're talking about. She very much has this mindset of like, and this could go for heartbreak, losing a friendship, losing somebody you love, uh,

COVID being really tough, like whatever. It is just any sort of negative that's kind of taking over your mind and in your life, and it's really really hard for you to kind of see the positive. She gave me just like a really great perspective on trying to focus on like shifting your mindset and shifting the equation so it would be like, Okay, COVID's really bad and I lost my job and this is really really terrible and

I don't know what to do. And I know this is way easier said than done, especially given a terrible time where somebody probably actually you know, has nothing and really lost their job and really feels frantic. But um, I think that trying to change that perspective and being like, I know I lost this right now, you know what. I feel like I can't even speak on the COVID job thing because I haven't been there and I don't know,

and I just don't know how that feels like. But I'll say with heartbreak, this is the worse thing that's ever happened. I'm losing this person forever, Like how could this be happening? If you change that mindset into being like I'm losing this person for sure. Yes, I'm allowed to feel sad. Yes I'm acknowledging my feelings and being patient with myself, but like why did I lose them? Oh? Maybe something else could be better for me that's out there.

Maybe something is like brewing that's like more possible and like a better future for myself, whether that's a person, whether you're getting a new job because you let go of this guy or girl in your life that was maybe distracting you from focusing on yourself and focusing on your work. Or I think, for me, what she really just taught me in that last episode and she phrases it way better, So I highly encourage you. Listen. It's just you switch that equation in your head so you

don't think of it as like such a negative. And I did this yesterday. I was in the car and I was really really frustrated about something, and I felt like this anger and like this like sadness and stress, and I kind of just sat there and I was like, but if I had been I The background to this is I forgot I had something that I needed to do and it was very important and I totally missed it and now I had drive there like three hours later, and I was just very tired. I had a five

am day yesterday. I was just like white and I was sitting there angry driving my car, and I'm like, Okay, but what if I kind of just changed my perspective? And I was like, what if I went at the right time and I got in a car crash and something bad happened to me, Like maybe this is a sign that I'm supposed to be doing it later. Like I was really beating myself up for being late like all this stuff. So I think it's just changing and shifting your mindset, and that can go for anything that

was such a big ramble. I'm wrapping it up there. Um, we've been talking for a while, but they're gonna have to cut a lot, you know. I am, yeah, Oh the dog looked over here because we nailing alright. Guy

is thank you so much for listening. And I feel like I also want to say one last thing, and it's just Bella will have a different perspective, but I always feel like I'm thinking about stuff like this, and it's just that, um, everything we've talked about, I just or maybe you won't have a different perspective, but I feel like everything we talked about, please take it just

like knowing that this was like our personal experience. And I'm not saying that like we're I've said this a million times, but I get so nervous, but like I just feel like I don't want this to be taken the wrong way. We're now we're sitting here to very blessed humans, like complaining about something, because that's just not

what I feel like I'm trying to do. I just want to be open and share like the reality of what did happen the last few years and how it did like affect our mental health and the situations we had gone through that we're really challenging for us. But that's not to take away from somebody else's situation that's ten times harder, or to discredit somebody's situation that's ten

times easier, you know what I mean. It's just like, as Bella said, her kind of uh movie or TV show is going to be about it's just relative to situation sations, and I just want people to take it with a grain of salt because obviously we know how fortunate we are. We are so lucky, we are so blessed. And I think something we also learned from the situation on a more positive note, since we were a little bit more like open and vulnerable, we didn't really get

into like the highlights of what we've learned. And I just think for me personally, it's like I will never

be the same human after the situation. I will always, always, always fight to give back, whether it's tutoring children or you know, I had a student I was working with for a really long time that I was tutoring that I actually don't know if I've ever talked about this, but you know, helping with her tuition, sponsorship money, trying to send people to school, just learning from a mistake that you know, I wasn't really in our control, but something that now we have to grow from. And I

don't want people to get it twisted, so period. And also can I say one thing, Yeah, you can cut this if you don't like it. But the show is called Conversations, with Olivia Jade, and this is a conversation with Olivia, and sometimes like conversations are a real thing. We're not gonna we can't talk about things that we don't know about. That would be insane, you know. It's like and it's not. The conversation isn't too get anything

out of it. It's just a conversation. And it's it's like essentially, you guys are if you were to be sitting in the room with us chatting on a day to day we're not. We don't talk about stuff, and we're like, om man, pity me here, I'm a victim. Here, I'm this thing. Like we just talk like it's that's life. You don't talk like I don't know how to say this in like a proper way, but you don't have a conversation with someone to try and affect their emotions

and change them and do all this stuff. You just talk to them and it's not too oh you're saying like when I say stuff like wait, don't take it this way. You're saying, but it's it's a conversation. It's people can take it however they want to take it, but it's not it's not my responsibility to like, worry if I'm hurting everybody's feelings, are saying the right or wrong thing. I'm just talking and you can listen. Are you don't have to, I think is what she's kind

of trying it, Yeah, and advise me on Yeah. And it's also I don't know. I don't know how to say this because I also I don't want to offend anyone, and I don't want it to They're gonna cut it. It doesn't matter. Um, I don't want to offend anyone.

But I think that the the idea of a conversation and being able to have a podcast and be open and vulnerable is to be able to talk about what actually has gone on in your life and not having to justify every single thing that you've said because you're talking about something that's coming from a personal experience rather than I just I don't know. Think about it. When you're having a conversation with someone, you're not asking them for pity the entire time you're talking to them. You're

just talking to them. You're not asking these people for pay. But that's what I'm saying. But you you phrase everything with I'm not asking you for pity. Blah blah blah. What I'm saying is, you don't know. I'm not even saying that. I'm just saying I don't want people to get it twisted. Like I know, but that's what I'm saying. People stop getting it twisted, you know, Like it's a conversation. So this is something Bella has an opinion on. I

don't know. I think that we're all humans, like we're allowed to chat, we're allowed to have our own opinions. Were not, it'd be crazy if we all thought the exact same way and believe the exact same thing into the exact same whatever. I don't know, No, I get what you're saying. That's all. I just think that everything that is said, take it with a grain of salt. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. If you don't, you don't. It doesn't It doesn't need to be any

deeper or bigger than that. And sometimes people try and twist things and make them bigger and deeper than what they actually are when it's truthfully just a conversation with all of you. Jade m alright, guys, thank you so much for listening. Bells, Sweet Sustra, Sister, big Sis, Doggie Dog. Thank you, don't snoop no. Thank you so much for coming on and being on this episode. I would never have felt comfortable to talk about anything that's openly with

literally any other guest. So I love you, and I know the listeners will also greatly appreciate it, because I don't think I've ever been this open in my entire life. So and I love you. I love you too. Thank you guys so much for tuning in today. I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast with my big sister Bella. Do you want like an Instagram plug or you don't care, like maybe follow on Instagram at Bella. So in like a year or two when the show was made, you

guys finally know where to find it. Um. But other than that, thank you guys, and I will chat with you next week. Bye bye bye