Conversations with… Billy Bush

for so many years. And you probably already know from the title, But today we have Billie Bush coming on the podcast, and I am just thrilled. I want to get, honestly some advice from him, because he's been in the industry for so long and I think that he has so many wise and just key points to make it and so you don't drown in this whole thing. But I also want to talk to him about things that he's been through and things that I can relate to. And um, yeah, with all that being said, please welcome

Mr Billy. What's up? What's up? Billy Fish? How are you very well? Very two? I'm nine pounds down in eleven days. Are you serious? Yeah? How what if you did you cut our alcohol? No? I cut off a Leg'll do it. That's a heavy leg. No, I'm going booze list. You know what your father Gosh, if he can go booze list for like a month at a time and he's going longer, U, then I can go like, you know, two weeks. Although I'm making the move from dry January, I think to damp January. I'm hearing this

term out there and I like it. What is that where you just dabble a little bit but not full send weekends only weekends only. I should join you in that endeavor, even though I'm not nearly as crazy as you and my dad. But no, you're you're you're young. I would go hard in the paint if I thank you for the advice. Well, welcome on the podcast us. Thank you so much. I am really excited because I feel like I've been talking to you about this for quite some time and I think, well, good for you

do it. Thanks, thank you so much. Um. You can also jump in and carry as much as this of this conversation as you want, because you are the pro at everything that has to do with this. But for those that don't know you, do you want to just

give a little intro as to who you are. I'm Billy Bush and I've been doing this far too long, the host of Extra before that, Access Hollywood very briefly the Today Show two months, um, but father of three girls and uh friend of your father and your mother and uh golfer, patriot advocate, uh philanthropist, bicyclist, whatever that sums it up. That's perfect. Well, Honestly, I think something that I kind of want to start out with is I don't even really know this. I don't think I've

really ever had an end depth conversation with you. But obviously people know your last name and it's very connected to politics, and I'm curious how you went the route of journalism. Well, no one would ever vote for me, um, so I thought would would would they? Possibly? You know? Um watch Me TV? I found later I was in um in college and I found the college radio station and started having a lot of fun on that, you know, just calling buddies and putting them on the air and

and playing some music. And I really fell in love with the radio. And after I graduated college, I spent seven years in radio before touching local television, which of course then led to everything else. But radio was my first love, which we're kind of doing right now. Yeah, it kind of feels like that. Yeah. I started in radio in Lake Winnipesake, New Hampshire, up in I mean, very very small town, three thousand watt station, an unrated market.

It was so small the the Arbitron Ratings Care didn't even care about it. But I started in sales because the general manager of the station was like, yeah, you can be on the air, but we're gonna pay you five dollars an hour. No kidding, five dollars an hour. You're not gonna make any money, but you seem to have a decent personality. Maybe you know you could sell some advertising. Well, there is no harder job. I'm convincing

the world and selling air to people. I mean it's not you have to sell them on this idea of filling sixty seconds of air. It was brutal, doors slammed in my face everywhere, but I broke through as a sales guy by figuring out this lesson. Everybody buys differently. You buy you, you make a different decision when you buy Olivia that the car dealer makes it different. This guy.

The biggest advertiser was Plymouth Auto Village and Tilton Ford a duopoly, a huge car dealer duopoly, and they're advertised on seven out of the eight radio stations in the Lakes region of New Hampshire. I was the eighth, and I'm like, what this guy is spending so much money? How come he's not doing it here. I went to see the guy lo and behold, he slams the door in my face four or five times. My boss finally says, you have to go back one more time and ask

him why he won't buy from you. So I go and I show up and they said, why won't you buy from me? I just wanted to know that one thing before you throw me out again. He said, well, you know what, if you had a nice set of legs and a good set of buns, you know, maybe we'd uh, maybe we'd get somewhere. And I went, oh, okay. It just so happens that we have an exchange program with this radio station in Sweden and we have this

new girl working for us named Olga. I could send her up here on Monday and maybe we get there. He goes, now we're talking. I said, great, no problem, thank you for that information. I left. I come back Monday morning. The mid day woman on the on the station had lent me her heels. She was a tall woman. Her heels, her miniskirt, her wig, her lashes, her lipstick, a pair of socks in the chich rolled up Daisy Duke style. I pulled in. I had already pre written

the largest contract our station had ever seen. I printed it out. This was like more money than we make in a quarter. I walk in. The little guy sitting behind his desk. They're busy on the sales room floor. I walk in. I put my foot up on it. Everybody in the showroom stops. They're looking going, oh my, what is this horror? I mean, this is New Hampshire, right, Northern New Hampshire, all freaking out. The service guys in the back bays, they come out there in the floor.

Everybody's going crazy. I walk over, put my foot up on this little man's desk, and I said, Mr Vincent, my name is Old God from the Oldie's one oh five radio station. Billy Bush sent me here. He didn't tell me how cute you are. Look, oh my god. I put my foot up. He looks at me and he goes, Jesus, kid, you have some balls. Oh my gut and I put the contract out in front of him. I held my composure. They're all cheering, going crazy. He takes out his pen. He signs the biggest radio contract

our station at ever seen. Bam, it goes through the roof. I make the sale, I leave, I go in town. I get a couple of beers with a friend. It's terrific. And just as I'm leaving, I'm driving out of town and there's my other client. I managed to get on Community Bank and Trust a great The president was Ron Sibley. I'll never forget little Ron. He's sitting in his office. There's a light on in there. This is She goes, YEA,

how fast word travels in a small town. I decide, you know what, I've had a little couple of beers. Let me say goodbye to Ron. Let me say hi. I knock on the door. Ron Sibley comes and opens the bank door, and he says hello, Billy. I said, Ron, I'm sorry to Bobby. I just wanted to stop in and and say hello. He goes, no problem, I'm just so sorry you're not wearing a dress. That is honestly one of the greatest stories I've ever been told I've been dying to get a chance to tell that story

to someone in some sort of public form. So you're the You're the You're the one who is this the first hit on this story? Have you never talked about that on any of your first hit on this? Absolutely the first hit on this story. But it does go to show you, like in life, like everybody buys differently, there's a way to get almost anything done. You just got to know who you're dealing with. That is so true,

and the persistence too, is so admirable. The fact that you walked in with heels and you stop on his desk is the funniest thing I've ever heard, and it's genius. Well yeah, I mean, you know, it was such a moment. He was totally peer pressure, the crowd cheering. He had to then sign, you know, which was I don't know, like ten grand a month or something, But in that kind of in that area, it's unbelievable. I then moved to a lake house and bought a small boat. Wow. Okay,

So then what happened after that encounter? So and you got the well, then eventually the I I was accounting for about fifty percent, if not a little more of the of the radio station sales, and so they I became the sales manager. But I'm like, this isn't what I wanted to do, what I came for. So I said to the guy who was running the station, Look, I gotta sell very less. I'll manage my accounts, but I need to take over one of the full time shifts.

I had the leverage. He gave it to me. Two months of being on the radio full time and I packed up my bags and left. And where did you come? And on the greener Pastors? Yeah, I ended up in in Rockville, Maryland, which serviced the d C market, on a classic rock station. So I was getting slightly younger. I started on an oldies station and then I went to a classic rock station. A year into that, the brand new Top forty station picked me up as the

morning drive host at years old. Wow, you know what's

so interesting to me too? I feel like when you I'm from like some any sort of well, I can kind of relate to this, but or how I feel in my life, it's like, since people know that I come from some sort of family, that's like in the business or in an industry, I think that there's like a big misconception that you don't have to work as hard and honestly, just even from the first story you just told, like hearing that you went in after time after time of being declined and then dressing up as

a woman, even though you did grow up around people that were very influential and you probably did have great connections and opportunities. But I just think it's it's something that I feel like most people maybe wouldn't assume, which I think is really really cool. Yeah, I would say the you know, in the grand scheme of things, the the being Ray I certainly raised and privileged, there's no question about that. But as far as like getting into

Hollywood or this business, I mean, I don't know. Last time, if you check, it's a it's a pretty liberal town. A guy named Bush. That's really good to dictate how far you go? You really got to cut your own swap. In fact, in my first contract at end be way back when I first signed with Access Hollywood in two thousand one, I made it mandatory that they were never allowed to introduce me or refer to the Bush family as far as politics, because I really you know you

you you you live by that sword. You die by that sword. Focus less on the bush, don't ride the bush, ride the billy, believe in the billy. And so no one knew for the longest time. I still have people like, wait a minute, a way you're connected. Well, to be honest, I didn't even really know that until I was talking to my mom recently. Well, I tell you what, if you want to be a long term player and be serious in the biz and all that, you can't I don't think it's wise to to ride the easy door

in or the more notable found the gimmick. I mean, you know, build a career. I've been at I've been a broadcaster for twenty oh man, I don't know since four include radio, so almost thirty years. Wow. So then at what point did you really when it really started to pick up and you're own access and then um extra now obviously, but like when you moved to l A and you start your family, Like, what give us a little timeline my career. I knew I would make it in television. Well, I knew i'd make it in

television when I started it Access Hollywood. My boss was like he was a little frustrated with me. One I look terrible at like corduroy jackets and my hair was all over the place. I didn't look like you're slick, you know, entertainment guy, or I find that hard to believe. I well, I'm smooth. I wasn't. I was a total ruffian. I mean right out of you know. Uh, it's certainly not Central casting, but I covered. My first interview was with sir Ian mckillan, Gandalf from Lord of the Rings. Right,

this guy is a great serious Shakespearean actor. And I interviewed him at Sardi's Restaurant off Broadway, and I prepared meticulously for the interview, and I did about a forty five minute sit down interview my best Barbara Walters, and the boss says, look, he said, Jesus, dude, this is Access Hollywood. It's not Dateline. I'm looking for a moment, just a moment. If the drink spills on the table, it's a moment. If you get you know, if there's a laugh about something, it's a moment. We're a show

about moments. I said, oh, okay, I got it. And then the next thing, I started just turning in moments. And the first one I think was the victorious Secret fashion show, Heidi Kloone, Gazelle, Bunch, entire of banks, oh gee, super models, I mean the bosses of bosses, and I went. They were all doing makeup and they let the press come in and I brought in three large pizzas from

across the street as a delivery man. The cameras rolling, and I said, pizza for Clome, Pizza for Clome, and Heidi is like, what new, and all the girl they don't. They've been they've been getting ready for this fashion show, so they've been watching their diets. And the pizzas came in and everybody devoured him and it was really fun. That's a clever way. Yeah, So it was just a moment, right, No one had ever seen that kind of thing, right, some moments that's like the key kind of thing that

you've taken home. Yeah that makes sense. Okay, I'm like taking that as a note for myself because I still feel like I'm new out all of this and this is one of my I mean, this is really one of my first I think I've only released like five or six episodes so far up the podcast. So they say five is the number for legitimacy, right, you gotta have five if you want to get to all the

platforms or something like that. Is that a thing? I think? So? Um, if you say unless you work for a woman named Amy, shoot, um, well yeah, so I think that's actually some great advice. And also I was wondering about the I don't know how much you want to get into certain things, so I won't. Yeah, because I think I can really relate.

And I've talked to you privately before when I went through like my family stuff about just honestly just being in the media something that I can um understand, and when you do have a setback, like just some advice not even just for me, but for those that have had setbacks too in different capacities, like in the darkest times, how you kind of got through it because I know you and you're such a lighthearted fun man to be around,

but obviously you went through something. Yeah, oh for sure. Well, I mean, look, it's like canceled culture is a little bit like um, it's kind of like you know, my dad used to say about a motorcycle accident. If you have a motorcycle, if you haven't been in an accident, you will be There's two types of motorcycle riders right, those who have been in the accident, those who will

be in the accident. And at this rate, if you haven't been canceled, your time is coming because we're we're we're we're getting into an area that's and I'm the o G. I guess I'm the o G of canceled culture. I don't know, but we're getting into an area where if someone has a thought that is not a good thought and intrusive thought, they could be fired for it. You know, the rules are getting all life is gray area and we live in this black and white prism

that somehow has has ruled our culture. I you know, Steve Harvey just talked a little bit about it. Um, I can tell you this. It's when it had it happened to me. It took me, oh, I think it took me until recently, probably four years to really you know, four or five years to really get that's how long ago was to be through the PTSD, because um, it's

it's brutal. I mean you you you you know you're I'm providing for my family, I have a livelihood, you know, I'm and all of a sudden, you're unhirable for three years in the business that you love. Um, you know what did you do in that meantime in those three years? Well, first I drank a lot of alcohol, uh, very hard. The bottle became my my, my bestie. Then I put it down and just started figuring. Okay, like behind me, over my shoulder. I have but you know, thirty books

or something. I've read every one of them. The role in the self help area. Uh. I went to a retreat for ten days in northern California, no phones, no electronics, just about trying to get the first foot forward again, get walking again. Went to Tony Robbins. I mean, I did everything I possibly could. In the end, it just it takes time. And what you really want to do

is own your own stuff. The best thing for me, I finally realize, is to own my faults, own my role, own accountability for me and let everyone else who whatever they did, let them do that for themselves or if they're not going to fine, I can only be responsible for myself. And frankly, in the end, I'll tell you what it gave me. It gave me a tremendous blessing,

and that is and you can relate to this. There is a lot of value in knowing what it feels like to be down, makes you approach other people a different way, makes you think twice before you cast judgment on someone, makes you kind of have a have a more open heart to other people because everybody's going through something. We also, Yeah, and I think also it's really interesting

about just cancel culture in general. I mean, right now it's at new heights because although like four or five years, as you were saying, it was obviously still around your the o G. But now it's just like you could just post the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, and instantly with social media and the bandwagon effect, I feel like it's just almost too easy. But I also think that it's interesting because it doesn't make a lot of

sense to me. Um, I think that I think that it's just I mean, my perfect example would be you, obviously we're in a situation that was a mistake on I'm sure a lot of people's parts and whatever. It was not going to speak on that, but you know, like you lost your job and then somebody also became the president who's who also was in the car and

said certain things. Um, and I just find it really interesting though, like what I just always think about, like what is the what's the decipher like of who gets canceled and then somebody becomes the president. It's like mind blowing to me. No one can understand the l rhythm of crime and punishment. Does the punishment fit the crime? There is ano some people can do amazing things, like

there are certain late night hosts. We don't have to go back and cancel them retroactively because I don't know, maybe they're on the right side of the prevailing media narrative, right, so they're considered protected. Uh maybe there. You know, it depends on where you fall on the pendulum, and there's always usually someone to gain when someone's down. I am very good now at seeing all the pieces of the puzzle. It's never just oh, that was someone's If someone's going down,

someone's going up. There there's a sesaw effect, you know. I'm working on a new show coming up, a project that I have which will be able to lift that curtain and show the little man pulling the strings there, the little Wizard of Oz in the background of who's all the imaginations of what's going on where and who's doing what? You know, so people can see now that I've survived, there's so much ample material for me to

analyze um. And in the end, you know, in my life, people have I think there are very few people left to say, let's punish Billy Bush, I think right. So now I'd like to do what I can to embrace the gray area again and open people's hearts. And first question you gotta ask, Olivia, is does anyone here when something happens to someone? So wait a minute before we judge, does anyone here have the wiring inside them to maybe have done something similar at some point on a bad day?

Do you have it in you? If you don't, go ahead, judge away. Yeah, it's so true. It's so true because it's we live in a society though, where you know, if everybody's worse moments were caught on camera. I was

actually talking to a friend about this recently. This is a really this is not a serious idea, but we were talking about there should be a day, I swear and like some somewhere in the near future, because it needs to happen where everybody, whatever video they have, whatever evidence, are proof of their worst moment or the worst thing they've said, or something that's a mistake that you wouldn't want public just one day, national like annual time, whatever

it is. Everybody just throws it up at the same time. So it's everybody's worst mistake out there. And then it's like, how can you even judge anybody that's so brilliant. I call that the buyback program. They do it with guns right in major cities. They'll say, okay, it's the buyback brogram. If you have a weapon, bring it forward on this day, and there will be no prosecution for you or anything. Even the legal weapon of some kind come in, turn

it in. Everybody take their worst moment, offer it up. It would be such a therapeutic session. It wouldn't once did a terrible thing. I know, next you go around, you know, yeah, exactly, That's what we were talking about. It was just like it would just I think it would eliminate so much judgment because then you you'd finally look in the mirror and be like, oh wait, I actually I've messed up a lot of times too, And I wouldn't want that for everybody to judge and see

and read every day for years. Like there's you mentioned a very interesting thing here, because there is a got you element. If people feel like they got you, then it can be very shameful and very punishing. But if you come forward on your own, it's a different story. Like Dave Letterman had some indiscretions with people on his staff and it was a big story. But at the time he was being extorted by a man and he came forward and said, I will not be extorted. This

is a terrible thing. Yes, I've had some indiscretions and I haven't conducted myself perfectly, but I will not I will not be extorted by this man. And he came forward. People were like, good for you. Nothing happened. He came forward first. He beat them to the punch. You are in trouble and you know it's about to happen. Come from Twitter fast, yea, the one that brought it out. Take it from us. Um, when did you realize you could come back and like after you did a lot

of like self work and you took time. At what point were you like, Okay, I'm ready to like jump back into my job and do what I love again. I just did serve my time and over, you know, depending on how you feel. I mean, uh, extra was um they needed a captain, you know, the host for the for the show, and I don't think anyone would ever say that I wasn't good at my job. So they were like, yeah, I think this makes sense and

let's grab him and if he wants to go. And so I met with the actually Lisa g the producer, slid into my d M s can we have lunch? And there we decided let's do a different type of show, let's change the format a little bit, and sure, let's get Rocket and so um, you know, back we went. And Ashley from the Almost Famous podcast, it's that time of year where drama fills the air. The Bachelor is

back with an all new season premiering January three. There's a new host, Jesse Palmer, and a brand new Bachelor, Clayton. Clayton is a Midwest boy that has that great smile, nice teeth, and he's really tall. Ash let's call it what it is. He's a beefcake. Okay, Well, Clayton seems to be a good guy though, and he can't wait to find love, get married, and have kids. And he believes more than anything that his future wife is on

this show. It sounds like a fairy tale, but also a bit of an emotional world coaster because Clayton tells three different women he's falling in love with him. Technically he told one, I couldn't be more sure that I'm falling in love with you, and another one, I'm falling in love with you, and the third one, I am in love with you. You don't miss a thing. It's your years of over analyzing everything that guys say. But

his heart is in the right place. But other parts of him as we find out what he admits to two different women that he was intimate with both of them. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna go over Well, we'll be breaking down it all on the Famous podcast Ben is Married Now Well Ashley's a mom will change our opinions of what we think is acceptable single behavior. Good question. Listen to Almost Famous on the I Heart Radio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Who's

the who's your most favorite favorite guest? Or like memorable moment you've had on any any show you've ever hosted? Is there one? Oh my gosh? Well, I used to do Access Hollywood Live, which was a little, you know, the live daytime version hour long of Access Hollywood back in the day. I loved doing that more than anything was stuff. We had John Corbett um Aiden, you know, for whatever, from from Sex in the City of the Actor.

He would come. He stripped down one time when he got the music was going and he stripped down to his maroons Skivvy's. That was a big laugh. Uh. We did more fund spontaneous things. I once interviewed Mike Tyson. I said, Mike, and I had nowhere to go, like we were out of the interview, but I had a little more time, and I said, so, I just say, said, Mike, A lot of people have told me you have a beautiful singing voice. How is it that I have never heard this. I have no idea if Mike Tyson can sing,

I'm assuming probably not that well. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, he's like, he goes, what I go work with me, Mike. I've been told by multiple reliable sources that you have a fantastic singing voice. And I'm like, oh god, I'm going down. I'm sinking. The moment is not happening. He looks at me like I've got seven heads. And then finally he goes, who the

dogs out. How do you like live? Did you feel the pressure when you had to interview people lives so much more than obviously like a prerecorded So funny, I used to always say on our live show back in the day, and so, you know what, I don't know if it's today or tomorrow or a few months from now, but at some point I'm gonna say something that's likely going to get me fired, and I'm just you know, getting ready for it. Ended up being something from eleven

years earlier that was in a tape vault. But you know, because I saw the direction we were going, you know, and the and I always felt me on live TV is a terrible miss. It's it's a risky endeavor, but it can be fun the time. It's really fun. Maybe there's nothing better than than than you know, walking that tight rope every day. It can be terrified. I would there was just say and we're clear. When the show was over and we're clear, and I would just go,

are you sure, okay? Good? Positive? I made another day. Yeah, That's how I felt when I was on Dancing with the Stars. With the live shows, obviously I didn't have to speak, but I was like, after they were like, and it's over and you're off camera and you run off stage, You're like, Okay, I didn't fall, I didn't say anything bad. I didn't mess up like onto the next week, hope for the best and what excuse me, but what a hoof for you are? The dancing is unbelievable.

Have you danced since I haven't? I was. I was on the phone with my the guy that was my pro val, like two days ago, and I was like yes, and I was like, please, I really want you to like introduce me to somebody because he doesn't do private training obviously, it was just for the show, um. And he said he would hook me up with a really great instructor. So that's like upcoming back. I really miss it. I do. It was such a very very good I knew you'd take to it well, but not as well,

I mean as well as you did that. That was impressive. And I know your your parents were both unbelievably you're dead and tears in his eyes. It was so cute. That's so sweet. Yeah, I think I got the I think I got the moves from Moss, although I've only ever seen those moves come out of my dad when he's had some tequila. I had to do it sober, which was way scarier and not and not afraid and not afraid to do so. I believe I'm playing golf with him on Saturday. So I'm hoping that that my

dry January will probably turning damp. It's turning damp, and it's turning damp. Qu He has a tremendous golf His golf company is through the roof, I mean people sending contures and yeah, he is doing pretty well. What advice would you give me? Obviously, you know my parents, you know, I'm a young twenty two year old woman living in l A trying to figure out my next move. And what do you have anything that you could maybe tell your younger self or something that I could take away? Yeah?

You got I think you got a tremendous life lesson very early. And you know, there's it comes with many different you know, um facets to it. I mean one is things are very unpredictable. Uh you know when when when there's an error made you own up. Uh you're you went through a period of feeling down all the

way down, Like am I ever gonna get back? I I don't know that type of feeling is very causes a lot of anxiety and stuff, but it really also makes you a warmer, nicer, kinder, you know, more empathetic person, and we need more people like that. So I think going forward, you have at a lesson that you never saw it coming. It was never on the you know, it just it occurred, and you now I think, have

the fortification to really dominate in whatever you want. One you're smart and and you know you've got those things, but you've got the fortification. I hope you never look back. I hope you just you know, blast toward knowing well the worst is behind me. That can be fuel for you. Yeah, for sure. Did you when you guys went through your hiccup and obviously you have daughters, what was did they take away or learn from that situation? Was that like

a really challenging time as a family. Yeah, only because I was despondent, you know what I mean. I mean that the they were I had a couple of frank conversations with my girls. I've you know, I've they know who I am. You know, they also know that there's that back then, you know, when twelve years before that, there was a desperate little guy that wanted to make it in the business, who was young and and and naive and and and a suck up and I want to and was was his lips were numb from kissing

celebrity as I mean, it was like I was. But of course that's what we want to embrace, right, his evolution. By the at the time I was fired, I was a completely different man. I was not a boy I was. I was a man. I was a man. I controlled the set um on the Today Show. I'm like, I'm the guy that people walk in and say, oh, I grew up watching you with my mom or something, and then they're sitting with You're a different person in the room, right,

you have a different wait in the room. I couldn't have been a lighter weight back in the you know, at that moment. So I think it's you know, I think it's important that we um that we let people evolve, we let people screw up, we embrace failure. Again, Oprah said, it wasn't the little successes that led to the big success, it was the little failures that informed the big success. Yeah, that's so true. So what's next. I got a great project that um that we're that we're working on now.

But um is exciting. I've learned been in the business too long to mention that at this point, although I whispered to you later, ah, but you know you don't wanna, you don't want to jinx yourself. There's that, there's that, and then there's just um, I've been dry in January. This is like, this is fantastic. I'm seeing my cheekbones again, record breaking. You look great. I dropped nine pounds in eleven days. That's so wild, isn't that incredible? Nine pounds

in eleven days? I'm like that. Also discuss to show how much I mean sugar and just calories and everything that's in booze. The fact that you can go sober for a week, and so here's my mission. Can't go dry period. I'm that's just that's not in me. So I like DAMP. I like Damp two thousand, twenty two weekends only maybe. But the mission is to make Booze special. Ag end hmm, in what way? Instead of like a Tuesday cocktail while I'm watching whatever? You know, it's make

it special, like look forward to it. You've you've served your penance all week and now you've played golf. It's five o'clock on Friday, ket me a gold martini and you're shaking the martini and you're pouring it and you haven't had four cocktails on the golf course, and so you're tired at that point. You've played golf because it's a sport and you don't drink during sports, and then a nice cocktail afterwards you look forward to it. It's

special again, right, that's actually such a great idea. And I think that this is a wonderful endeavor for you. Yeah, you get a little blubber off you too, and you know, you see the cheekbones and yeah, like a blubbery I'm fifty. Okay, you were never blubbery. I would not use that word to describe you. But bloated, bloated. Everybody used bloated, your lad. I'm like so nervous to say anything. I'm like, oh, is this going to be taking the wrong way? That's

the thing. Wait, you just touched on something so important, the way our culture is going with the whole cancelation and all this business and and and penalty and penalty, you know, death by career, career death for a slip up or anything like that. Whatever the circumstances are, We're losing interesting people. We're losing voices that matter. Like, you know, the the heretics of the of of history are the ones that informed us and and made us in many

ways who we are. So if we lose those people's daringness to say interesting thoughts or things that are different or go out on a limb, I mean we're really sanitizing too much. I mean, that's what's fascinating about our discourse are wildly differing opinions. Yeah, it's so true. I mean I always say that I'm like, I don't want to speak on And I even had my sister on

one of the episodes, and Bella is very uh. I think she's just like a direct a little bit more sarcastic, and she really doesn't care about I think she cares, but just not to the same degree about being canceled and stuff Like she just is like, well, O, your say what you gotta say, Like this is your life. If people they don't have to watch, I don't have

to listen. Like, she's just a little bit more free and open with her thoughts and I second guess everything that comes out of my mouth because I think I have trauma from everything that happened with my family, where I'm like, I don't ever want to wake up and see a text from my agent of an article link again, Like I don't ever want to see you, Like I'm so freaked out to mess up again that I almost rather just like sit in silence, just be like, let

somebody else do talking. Yeah, yeah, I like, you're afraid to like a bar stool sports Instagram because it's a little you know, maybe not so, you know, it's a little off color or something, and if you like it, people like, oh you like that? You're oh god, what b But that's you know, we have bloggers out there. It's it's called the link economy. We have bloggers out there, and they get paid upon not they don't. They don't

get a pulletzer. You get paid on page views. So whatever can be mind, This conversation right now between you and I will be mind, and something will be put out. You know, someone probably find something and say, oh, back up the ambulance, you know too, canceled, people crying. Whatever they'll say, who knows cares. But right now where I am, what I will likely do is either pound them back or or call them on the phone, or I don't know, something like that. Enough enough, no more here, But that's

I won't be doing that out. He's sitting in my room like, no, no, you'll be underneath soon, you'll be underneath the bed exactly. But I'll let you do the calling for sure. I love it. I love nothing I love more than calling a writer or a newspaper or you know, some outlet and saying, let me ask you a question. Are you an idiot? What do you? What is the wrong? They call them right to their face. It's as I can't stand dishonestly and I can't stand

lazy work. I've never tried that. Never. Yeah, I think i'm a little young still. I think I gotta be uh that whole respect your elders thing. I gotta gotta have a few fs left, but not not a ton, I think. Also, I get I just want to see. This is exactly what you're going to see, a perfect example of what I've been saying. How I'm scared to say anything because I was going to go on to say I don't want people to take what I'm saying the wrong way. Obviously I'm in a huge position of privilege.

Everybody knows that you're a very you can you come from a privileged family as well, and you're in a position of privilege. And so I don't want this to be taken as me like I was canceled and I'm complaining about it and it's not fair, and it's like, I just hope people see that there is you know, you own your I own my mistake and then I got to move forward at some point to be able to talk about your experiences right. Well, also, but if if you know, if nobody has an opinion about you,

and opinions go both ways, maybe it's not working. I mean, you know, I've never had every as much as you. You know, you like me. I'm a friend of your parents. We have a lovely but not everyone does, right, you know what I mean. That's got plenty of detractors, and I appreciate them. Fine, that's life for you. I can't

please everyone's life for everybody. I mean I think, I mean, like Rosie o'donnald you were too young, but she used to be on the view on ABC, and Rosie was a lightning run and people hated her or they loved her but bore. The ratings were great and she made the show. I wish she would go back on. Well, well, thank you so much for coming on. I won't take up any more of your time because I know you're a busy man and you've got stuff to do. But I loved having you on and I think you're very

wise man as well. So thank you, thank you, and you're wiser than you expected to be at this age. Folks, Olivia Jane genuinely live from her apartment. Thanks so much. S