Hi, everyone, Welcome to conversations. Now. I've been very lucky. I've just seen a movie that's about to be released. It's called The Salt Path and it tells the story about raynal Winn and her husband Moths, who lose their home, sadly lose their home and then faced with this prospect of homelessness, decided to go walking as you do. And it turned into an amazing film where which is beautifully
shot showing the coastline of southern England. And it turned out to be very therapeutic for Raynhold's husband, who had been diagnosed with a very serious illness. But very fortunate we have Raynold joining us now. Raynal Winn, welcome to the program. How are you great?
Thanks good for you to be here.
Can you tell us from where we are speaking to you.
I'm in Cornwall in the southwestern tip of England.
Is that home now?
It's worth of been since we stopped, since we finished walking a path. Actually strange that your life just washed me up here and I've not left.
That's interesting. Now when we look at your bio you list to your occupation is listed as a British long distance walker. I wonder how many people make their career as long distance walkers.
Yeah, it's strange, isn't it. I don't know how that made book. I do walk quite a bit, so maybe the.
I want to I want to start at the beginning, but I think I have to start in the middle when we when we go back to the movie, the movie starts with you and your husband being kicked out of your house or your farm, and it's a gripping, sad, angry moment for I imagine for you and for him, and for those of us who are watching. So can you tell us what led up to that?
Yeah, moster night we met when we were teenagers. I can remember I was sitting in the college canteen and it was a really busy day. But as I looked up across the canteen, it's really full, busy room. There was a little partying in the heads along the opposite side of the room, there was this young man in a white shirt and just at that moment so I saw him. It dipped a Mars bar, a chocolate bar in a cup of tea, and I can remember thinking
what a weird thing to do. But strangely is I watched him it was just like he's the one, I just know it. And as I walked out of the room, I looked back at him and he caught my eye, and there was just that moment of knowing, that moment when we both.
Just knew love it first sight.
That's definitely yeah. And through the years after that, we just had this dream that we would find a place in the hills, somewhere we could turn into a home and live life on our terms. I think I was about thirty when we actually found that place. It was
an absolute ruin. The walls were falling in, roof was caving in, but it was exactly what we'd been looking for, and we spent the next thirty years of our lives, twenty years, sorry of our lives, rebuilding that converting the outbuildings into holiday accommodations so visitors could come and stay and pay the bills, and our children grew up, then they went to university. It was just it was everything we'd ever hoped for, and we were living our sort
of idyllic life, I think. But during those years, we'd had this financial dispute with a lifetime friend and it resulted in a court case that's always being served with an eviction notice from that home, and they gave us a week to move out, a week to pack Goes twenty years of life into.
A box and go.
And it was during that week that Moth had what we thought was going to be routine hospice of appointment because it has a problem with his shoulder. We thought it was it had come from when he fell through the roof when we were mending the roof, But it turned out not to be routine at all because it was diagnosed with a neuro degenerative condition called cortico base or degeneration, and it's a really rare condition that has
no treatment and no cure. And I think it was in that moment that all of our lives fell apart, because we'd lost everything that we had worked towards, our home, our business, everything that we'd built for twenty years. But then we lost what we believed would be our future as well, because that was being taken away from him.
Well, I wanted to know, and never really explained in the movie, is what was the business deal that went wrong? Can you expand on that as well?
I've never really dwelt on that because I don't think it's the priority really in what in this story because the story was about the coast path, but everything, it's just a friend, and then you find out in life you probably shouldn't have trusted them. We all can do that, can't we. But sometimes the outcome can be more extreme, and it was in our case.
Could you lose your house and you get kicked out? I mean that just seems so brutal. The bailiffs are there knocking the door down to kick you out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Early on in the film Starting a Book as well, it starts at that point where we're standing under the stairs. The bayliffs are knocking at the door, and we just weren't ready to go. That's why we were under the stairs. We weren't ready to take that step out of the door because we knew in that moment as we stepped out, we would never go back, never go back into all those years of life. And also as we went out of that door, we would become homeless because there was
nowherefforts to go. And that was the moment when I saw a book in a packing case, and it was a book about a young man who'd walked to the Southwest Coast Path with his dog, and I think in that, in that really brutal moment, it felt like the idea of filling a rucksack and just going for a walk following a line on the map would give us a reason, would give us a reason to go forwards, a purpose to go into the next day. And at that stage,
that's all it was. It was something that would readers through the next day because it felt as if there was no reason to go on really at that point.
But you needed some sort of preparation. Had to find a tent, you had to find food, you had to find nep sex. And did that take much doing?
I did. I mean, we hadn't walked any sort of of like multi day distance since we were in iarly twenties, and at this point I was fifty. So when we got all our old equipment and looked at it, it was actually not not carryable because it was so heavy and we weren't twenty anymore. So we had to buy a new tent, which we did. We bought it from an online auction website and it became our home for
months to come. But we bought it for a few pounds online, and then, of course, you know, we gathered the other things that we would need and go were very very basic, very rudimentary things. Probably the biggest mistake we made was I saw these summer weight sleeping bags in a supermarket that was so tiny and lightweight, and it was like fantastic, easy to carry. Great, but you know it's Britain. You never needs sleeping bag here.
What is quite gripping when you're trying to understand Moth's condition and he looked like he walked with quite a severe limp. It must have been so painful for him to negotiate those climbs and the like.
Yeah, it was very difficult because part of good condition, well the majority of the condition of CBD is that it affects movement. It affects the signals from the brain telling your body to move. And so his initial stages with this condition were that he was struggling with his left side, struggling to move his left leg properly and that was really difficult. But he was also struggling to even put his coat on without help. So carrying a rucksack was really hard. Yeah, he was. He was finding
it very very hard to start with. You know, there were days when many mornings early on in that walk when he would have been in the tent overnight and was so stiff in the morning he couldn't get out of the tent. So there's a scene in a film where Jillian pulls him out of the tent by the sleeping bag, and that often happened many mornings. It was the only way of getting him out was to pull the sleeping bag out with him in it. Yeah, so it wasn't easy in those early weeks. It wasn't easy.
My guest on conversations today is rain Or when Raina and her husband Moth start war and they don't start, but they're their main characters in a movie called The Salt Path. They walked the Salt Path, which is a path in England. We're talking about that at bit more and when he come back, there's a film made of it. There's books being written and subsequently a couple of other books. So back shortly, folks. Raynall Winner is my guest on
conversations now. Raynal is a well. She's described in Wikipedia, if you can trust Wikipedia, as a British long distance walker and writer. Well, she certainly is a writer because her first book, The Sault Path, became a best seller, and it's been made into a movie now. The movie stars Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs. Gillian Andson plays Raynor's
part and Isaacs plays the part of Moth. What's it like seeing yourself portrayed in a movie with and are you happy with the performance and the and the casting.
Well, it's quite a weird thing, isn't it, having Jillian Anderson portray you on the screen. It's not an experience, that's for sure. I can remember when I was told that it would be Jillian Anderson. I was a little bit I don't know, is it going to work. She's so good, glamorous. I just couldn't see how she would
capture me in that absolutely raw state. But as soon as I saw her on set, I could see she completely abandoned any idea of vanity and had thrown herself into the idea of being raw and elemental and out in the weather. And she did a brilliant job of that, of capturing that sense of being lost in life.
And how did Jason Isaacs portray math? Were you happy with that?
Well? Yes, completely. We met them for a day before filming started, and I think I was immediately struck by Jason Isaac's enthusiasm for life, and that is such a part of moths character, that sense of enthusiasm and joy and just willingness to embrace the day. And yeah, completely, as soon as you know he was, he was running up and down the stairs, trying to copy Moth's movements and jumping on and off our kitchen worktop. I realized
that he was going to be actually perfect. And another moments in the film, just little moments when I looked at the screen and just for a second I thought it was Moth on the screen. So I can't have done a bad job if I felt like that.
Surely Moth isn't his real name, Moth as in Moth t h.
It's what most of his teenage friends have always called him.
So is it a secret?
Well, it's that's an abbreviation of his real name, so you know, it's what we've always known about. So that's who he is to us.
You can't you have to tell us his real name.
I don't, you.
Can be what can that be short for moths?
Anyway, it was great to see Jason on the screen because there's a little scene later in a film when it's a semed direct from the book when a lady comes and talks to them and says, you know, you've been out in the out in the wilderness, and you
can see it written all over you. You're salted. And that scene in the book, when I looked at the at the screen, just at Julian and Jason sitting on the sand, there was just in that moment they really captured that feeling of what it felt like to be on that path, of what it felt like to be out there weeks and weeks into that walk with nothing else.
And I think that was the thing. It wasn't just like going for a walk, it was there was nothing else that walk, those rocksacks, got tent, It was all we had.
So did you have a rustic or rule upbringing you close to the land?
Yeah, I grew up on farm, so my whole childhood was playing in the fields and in the woods and and tracking rabbits and that that was my childhood. So I think really.
Were about where about what part of.
England, So as far from the sea as you can get, right in the center of the country, as far away from the coast as you could be. So I think something of that of that growing up in a landscape, was in that decision two to go out onto the headguns because maybe maybe that felt like going to a safe place, because I understood nature more than I would ever feel at home in the town or I mean, moth have grown up on the edge of but in his head, he'd always been absolutely drawn to the wild places.
So when we first met, you know, he really encouraged me to go to the mountains, to go to the coast guine, to go to the places that really inspired him. Of very early years together were spent exploring Scotland in the Lake District, the really wilder parts of the UK, And I think that's what our relationship was built on, was built on those early years of being out in the countryside. And so I'm sure that that, you know, was there somewhere in the background of that decision to walk.
As a young lady and a young girl growing up, what ambition did you have you did you see yourself as a marathon walker? Well? What did you want to be?
Absolutely when I was a child, I thought I was going to grow up to be a writer, and I really just thought I was going to have a book with a penguin on the the spine.
Of the book.
But I never did write. I just life took me off down another avenue, and I never did write anything until I started to write The Salt Path. Yeah, it was such a joy to put words onto a page and to feel how you could how you could painter scene with words. I just loved the process and it was almost as addictive as a long distance walk.
Then was it easy to get it published?
Well, I've been told by my publisher and my agent to qualify anything I say about this by saying what happened to me isn't normal. I literally I wrote it four Moth. I wrote the Sort Path just for Moth because he was starting to the illness was starting to affect his memory, was starting to forget some parts of that path, and it had been such an important, strong, powerful moment in our lives. I needed to hold it for him, to capture it so that he would always
have it. And that's all I was doing with it, you know. I literally wrote it, printed it on a home printer. It started out black, ended up pink because the printer ran out of ink. I tied it up with the string, gave it to him for his birthday. That's all it was at that stage, but I remember my daughter was staying with us because it was his birthday. She read it before he did, and she said, you know,
it's not bad. You should do something with it. And I really thought she meant, you know, get a binder or put it in a folder, because I couldn't imagine doing anything other. But eventually I did look for an agent and found one that I thought would be okay. Sent you know, as you do three chapters and this is not this And just a few days later she got back to me and said, kind of sing the rest of the manuscript. Within a week she said she
wanted to represent me. And then just a couple of months later we had an offer from from the publishers and I've got a penguin on the spine of my book.
How amazing is that? You dripped about that as a little girl. Yeah, And then the film rights followed. Did that take you by surprise?
Absolutely? The Sapath had been published for a few months and we started to get some interest from a few producers who wanted to option the film rights. I didn't understand anything about film really, I'm not really sure if I do now, but I certainly didn't then, but it does seem that many books get optioned, but very few get made into a film. So we we we agreed to option the film rights with absolutely no expectation of
ever seeing a film made. So when it did finally come to to good point where things started to move and it was actually going to be made, it did feel a bit like, oh, hold on, because it's actually happening. What is this going to mean? Yeah, well, there were quite a few years in between the option and the film actually get made, but apparently that's the way it goes in films, very slow business.
Rain Or Win is my guest, folks. Her book was called The Salt Path that's been made into a movie. You must see it. It's quite gripping and it's quite inspiring actually because you feel the pain. You feel the pain of climbing hills and sleeping out and I don't know how you actually walk so far carrying begpecks Back shortly, folks, welcome back the conversations everybody. If you have just joined in,
I'm chatting with rain Or Win. She's in Cornwall as we speak, down at the south of England, and we're talking about a movie that was made subsequent to her publishing a book called The Salt Path about her and her husband Moths diagnosed with a really serious illness. I'll just see if I'm actually pronounced a quarterboat, quarterco base or degeneration. And they lose their home in a business deal or an arrangement that went poorly for them, so
in desperation they start walking. I just can't imagine walking the distances you did. I mean, you can go for a walk, and you might go for a go for a weekend, but you're the Salt Path was is that five hundred odd miles.
Six hundred and thirty miles that's got on a scent because aparently equivalent to climbing. Ever, it's nearly four times, so you can tell it goes up and down quite a bit.
Well, that's the thing that puzzled me when you see the movie where Moth starts off and he's dragging his leg and he's dragging his lenk the whole way through. Firstly, did the did the actor Jason Isaacs, did he get the movement accurate? Is that? Is that? How?
Talking to Math and lots of time exploring how that condition affected him at that time, but he also spent quite a bit of time talking to PSPA, the charity that supports people with DBD, and another very closely connected illness PSP, and from that he built a picture of of the movements of people with cort co based or degeneration, and he he worked quite closely with Math on movement and that was that was really worthwhile because although the
movements that he portrays might not be one hundred percent accurate to how Math moved, they do portray that illness really well and as such it was it was really strong picture of the condition.
There's interesting parts. I mean, I know I've seen the movie and our listeners probably haven't yet, but you seem so destitute, had no money at times, you were starving at times. How did you survive and what was that like the prospect of no money and no food and you're on the walk.
It was pretty desperate at times. We had really quite poor equipment as well, because we hadn't had much money to buy it with, so I think probably one of our worst mistakes was buying goes super thin, ultra lightweight summer sleeping bags. So we were cold quite a lot, but we had hard money. Were we started out with about forty pounds a week, and then it rapidly went
down to about twenty five a week. And on the Southwest coast, which is very tourist built area that sort of exists on its tourism, twenty five pounds a week for two people doesn't go very far. There's a scene in the film where where the couple have forgotten to cancel their house insurance and so a standing order takes all their money out of the account, and Durian Anderson goes to a bank teller and asks for the last one pound thirty eight out of the account, and that
did actually happen. But we took that one pound thirty eight out because it equated six packs of noodles, which we worked out we could just survive for about five days on those packets of noodles. One packet a day between two of us was just through that and an awful lot of hot water to keep the hunger at bait, and we could just about get by. So hunger was such a big deal to start with. It was anyway, because we don't usually really face real hunger in Western society,
do we in our civilization? And you know, if we are really hungry and there's nothing much in a house. You can always usually get a cracker or a bit of toast, but when you've got no money and there's no food, yeah, hunger can be such a really painful thing. It's actually surprising how painful hunger can be. But after a while, it's like your body adjusts and it stops needing food in the same way. And then we really did discover that you can actually keep hunger at bay
with a with a hot water. And we didn't have many tea bags, so we did share the tea bags. And because you know, by then we were drinking our tea with no milk and just this reused tea bag, we did come to the point where where a tea bag could actually last us all day if we needed it to. Can I the tea that way now? Actually, with just like hint of tea and some hot water.
What is this doing to your self esteem as you are enduring this lifestyle?
Well, I think our self esteem took an absolute nose dive quite early on, because just maybe just a week into that walk, we were already down to our last few pounds, and I can remember standing outside the shop trying to count how much we had before we went in to obviously see what we could have thought. And I can remember having nine pound coins in my hand and that's all we had, and a lady came around the corner of the shop with a big dog that jumped up my rucksack made me make those coins skip
off my hand and going onto the pavement. Well, I was straight down on the pavement, hand on the drainage grill, trying to catch my pound coin before it rolled away. And as I was there lying on the concrete, the woman with the dog started poking me with her foot, and I'll never forget it. She said, what are you doing? We don't have people like you here, drunken Trampson Street. Get up And I come in that moment thinking who's talking to because it can't be me, And then when
I realized she was. I think that was the point when that sense of self really fell apart, because to that point our lives had fallen apart, but I hadn't regarded how we had changed in society's view. And I think that real low point of loss of sense of self was that was the hardest to come back from, I think, And it's a long way back from being at the very very bottom of your own sense of where you exist, not just in the wider society, but in your own self.
Look at you now, self esteemsh stat I would think.
I don't know. I think something of've got time will always stay with me. Actually, do you think.
This lady would she have recognized herself in the movie?
I don't think so.
There were a couple of There were a couple of moments where you were, you know, castigated by people passing by and what are you doing camping here? And yeah, did you have a smart response?
Usually we just ignored them and let them talk because it seemed quite the easiest way. And initially, of course, you know, people would ask, how come we've got so much time to walk so far? And initially we were quite honest and we would say, you know, we we've lost a home, we're homeless, there's nothing else to be done. And it was a real shock actually trying that people would actually physically recoil, gather their children in, or the worse still haven't quite worked this out, was draw their
dogs in on a retractable lead. What was happened to the dog? I never quite work out, because there be so much emotional damage you can take before you start actually protecting yourself, and so that's what we did. So we sort of changed that narrative. When people ask us that question, how come you've got so much time, we started to say, well, we've sold our house, which is going where the wind blows, a scene where life takes us,
and suddenly then well the action was completely different. It was like fantastic, amazing, and it was a real surprise to find our preconceptions around home ownership and the difference between losing your house and selling your house there was a universe in between. It was an interesting observation of society's preconceptions, that's for sure.
Rain Or when is my guest, folks. The movie is called The Salt Path, of the book is called The Salt Path, but there's been two books, so we're talking about that when we come back back shortly, I'm talking to rain Or Win. If you just tuned in, folks, rain Or has written a book called The Salt Path that's subsequently been made into a movie, and it's a beautiful movie. It tells the story of rain Or and her husband Moth,
find themselves homeless, almost destitute at times, on. They have been a destitute, but they decide as therapy to escape, to have somewhere to go. They walk the Salt Path and it's in six hundred and thirty mile just over a thousand kilometer walk in the southwest of England. But you finish, it comes to an end. You get to the end of the path. Now what happens then? What do you do then? Or was it?
Yeah, we were close to the end of the path and Moth started to think that maybe actually the answer was if he went back to education and studied for something good he was interested in, and so that's what he did. At the end of that path, he started a degree and we moved into a tiny apartment at the back of a chapel in a Cornish fishing village that had been given to us by a really, really kind and generous person we'd met while we were walking. Yeah,
but it was a really strange time. Moth had gone to university and was learning things in one respect but then losing his memory because of the illness and the other before that's when I wrote the book. But also i'd never lived in the village before. I'd always lived on a farm in a rural place. So actually to go out of the door and find that there were people outside the door, I've haund it really quite hard
to adjust to. And also I was really missing that sense of being part of the landscape, that sense of being part of that open horizon. I couldn't sleep, It was really difficult. I remember putting the tent up in the bedroom and sleeping in that for weeks. Yeah, so it was a strange time of adjustment when we came back.
But so you write the book. The book unexpectedly is published in the movie Rights Options. Then you write another book, tell us about the Wild Silence. The Wild Silence.
Silence was really a follow on to the Salt Path, a bit of a what comes next, But at the same time it was that it was really a book about about the land and how important the landscape land is to is to not just us, but to all
of us. So it really it covers that time of adjustment going back into society, of sleeping in the tent in the bedroom, and also of a trail we did through the highlands of Iceland, and the walk through the southern highlands of Iceland and that incredible moonlight landscape of a volcanic ash and sulfur and boiling water.
Yeah, I I it inspires me to do it, but I'm not sure that the old knees, the worn out knees, would sustain it. So it sounds like, after all this, I would have thought you'd been done with walking. You decided to walk the Cape Roth Trail. It's got an intimidating name. It's one thousand miles sixteen hundred kilometers, for Heaven's sake, well, and.
We decided to walk that path. Moth was because it'd been quite stationary for a while. It was just post a pandemic, so we'd all been in lockdown in this country. We weren't allowed to even walk very far. So he'd been walking a very restricted amount, and the symptoms of CB really flared back up, and he was at that point, one of his lowest points, and he was almost accepting it. He was almost accepting that this was it, that the condition was now going to actually just take its course.
But I couldn't face that. I couldn't face the idea of him allowing that, accepting that without just trying one more time to walk a long distance and see if it changed the course of that condition as it did when we walked to the Southwest Coast Path. So we went to walk the Cape Wrath Trail, which sounds ridiculous because it's the most remote, one of the most difficult trails in the country, but it's about two hundred miles.
But it was also it was a place that Marthad always wanted to go and spend time, but we'd never really had time, and I thought, if anywhere encourages him to try it or be there, So we went to the very north of Scotland, northwest of scottl went to walk with Cape Brath Trail and that's all we were
going to do, but we did. We slowly, slowly walked through the remote hids and the great wilderness and rough bounds of noid Art and found ourselves in Fort William, and Moth was going, well, I feel a lot better than I did at the start, but maybe if we walked a bit further I might feel even better. And Fort William is where you can start the West Hyland Way, so we thought we'll just follow the West Tiland Way for just over a week, see how you feel there.
So we walked to the West Tiland Way and that took us down through Scotland down to Glasgow and then well we thought we'll just walk up the towpath to Edinburgh, and then when we got there it was like and then we just compended on way and then offers die and before we knew it, we'd walk back to CoolWall on thousand miles. It was quite a long way.
What did it say about the therapeutic benefit of walking and exercise for somebody with such a serious illness? And when modern medicine wouldn't tell you this, they'd tribe to medicate you. But how therapeutic is it?
Well, he'd been told that there was no treatment and no cure for his condition, and there still isn't It's such a rare, unknown condition, and you know that the charity are desperately seeking funds for research into it, because
without the research we will never have the answers. But when he walked the Southwest Coast Path about two hundred miles in his condition began to change to the point where the very start of the film we first scene at of the film, we're caught on a beach as the tide is coming in in the middle of the night. We have to jump out of the tent, pick the tent up hole, and run up the beach with the tent, and we dropped it at the cliffs at the top
of the beach. We realized, actually he'd just run up the beach carrying attention head when a few weeks earlier, a few hundred miles earlier, he hadn't been able to put his coat on without help. And I think we knew then that that walk had done something to him that the medical professionals said wasn't possible, and that had from then on has become our only answer to this condition, because it's only through those long distance walks that his
health journey changes. We still don't know why. We still don't know how, But in a new book that comes out in October, and maybe get a little bit closer. Maybe who knows. The research is still ongoing.
But what to do for you? I heard a quote of yours which I thought was quite delightful. You said, walking it's like riding a rhythm through a beautiful piece of music. Is that what walking is to you?
A long distance path? It's like that, I think after a few for me, it's about two weeks really, so it's quite a long one, but after about two weeks you feel as if there's a change in your body. You feel that like shunting your body into something that becomes easy and rhythmic and smooth. And then, like I said, then that's what it's like. It's like riding a rhythm. It's as if it's as if your body feels the landscape and you just go with it and it becomes
like a meditation. I think like it just simply becomes about the next step. It becomes about the landscape, about the horizon, less about you, and it's as if you disappear. I wrote at the end of Landline, it's the third book about walking down the country. There's a piece at the end of that about I think it is Sufiism, a philosophy in that called a wayless way, and it's got point where you become a path and the path becomes you and it stops being something separate, but you
become the path itself. And that's what a long distance path does. It allows you to become the landscape.
It's terribly inspiring, except the part where you're penniless and Moss decides to busk stand on a Did it really happen? Did he stand on a pa foreman that recites stories.
That's seeing the film is so close to how it actually happened. I was back there on the street with my hat collecting coins. Yeah, Moth always carries this book. It's a seamless Heeney version of Beiof. I mean, I don't get it. It's maybe it's a man's book. As far as I'm concerned, it's just about who's got the biggest sword. But he seems to go it. He really takes something from it. And we had virtually no money.
We were in Saint Ives, this little little town on the southwest, you know, quite way into the west, and we've got hardly any money. We'd shared a pasty and a seagull had come down and eaten my half. So and he was like, we can't go on like this. Took his book without telling me what he was doing and started telling people as story, started reciting bear Wolf in only the way he can, you know, a real storytellers.
So he loves the story. So he was standing there telling this story, which is quite you know, it's quite an action pack story of monsters and swords. So there's quite a lot goes on in it and a crowd gathered. A crowd gathered round and he gave me to collect and I was so embarrassed. I didn't want to do it, and during the film captures got cringe of oh, I don't want to do this. So but by the end of it, we've got twenty pounds in a hat, and
I mean, for us, it was a fortune. And we went and bought a pastie, and because it was starting to get quite chilly, we bought a war We jump for each from the charity shop.
We've come to the end. Rain Or There's so much could chattel all day about that. I encourage people to see the movie, read the book. You've had subsequent books, The Wild Silence and Landlines and another one due shortly, so good luck with it. It's a delightful story. It's an inspiring story. Thank you so much for joining us.
Oh, thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Rain Or Win was my guest. Folks. The book and the movie is called The Salt Path. I know you'll enjoy it. Thank you for joining us.