Kevin Gearheart: Failure is Never an Option

Well, we're back again this week with a with a new guest. Kevin Gearhart is with us. You know, as we like to do at the beginning of every episode, Kevin, would you be so kind to uh to introduce yourself? Yeah, absolutely, Greg. Appreciate you having me on. Uh name's Kevin Gerhardt. I am the president and I'm one of the partners of Rehab Medical.

Uh Rehab Medical is a mobility medical equipment device company. Really, what we do is we provide mobility solutions, wheelchairs for patients that have uh some sort of a neurological disorder or spinal cord injury. Uh headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana, we have a presence in seventeen states. We are just now crossing over the six hundred employee threshold and looking at ways to continue to grow our business. Kevin, as we were talking, you know, before

We uh we did this interview. We were talking all about the founder journey. And how in many instances it is uh dramatized, uh it's hyped up, it's made to look uh easy in the eyes of folks who aren't in it um because they don't really appreciate what it took to get to where you are. So what I wanna do is if we can rewind the clock. Uh we can rewind the clock to

However many years ago, insert the number and how you got involved in the business to start with. Yeah, so I've been with the company for 12 years and you know kind of an interesting, interesting journey to get here. You know, I was uh you know, my background uh undergrad telecom technology, went and got my MBA, ended up getting into healthcare and I was running a retail optical chain for about five years.

And from there, you know, really just wanted to try and get some ownership opportunities. And so, you know, this this opportunity came about and and really what it was was a business that was running.

and the the current CEO was one of the partners there and and they just decided they want to split the business in two. Uh really our CEO said, Hey uh and so when he approached me it was, Hey, we've got a business, we've got some sales, but if we split this thing in two, we have nothing else. Uh and so truly, you know, we were left with about, you know, seven, eight

Offices that had some sales, but nothing else in terms of back office support. And so really it was, hey, let's try and, you know, kind of build this airplane while it's in the air. And that was kind of the opportunity that I saw and kind of how we we got into the business together in terms of uh becoming a partnership. And why? If I recall um from what I've I've read and watched

You were you went back to business school at Indiana. Why did you want to buy a business? Yeah, great question. I think I think what helped me was I was I was running a a family business. And, you know, I think I really just gained a level of confidence that, hey, I can do this. You know, I can run a business. I, you know, I understand a lot of the components of running a business. of operating a business. And so for me

There's also a level of, you know, I I want to be involved. I don't mind risk. And so I think it was kind of a lot of things coming together of I'm okay with risk. I want to have a seat at the table. I want to be able to to kind of direct the building of something. And I felt like I could do it. And so for me, it just became something where I said, hey, I really want to try and do this. And I just became something that that I knew I had to go tackle.

So risk. So how do you define risk? What does that what does that mean? Yeah, ri that's a great question. Uh and I I don't know, honestly. I think risk to me is probably what are you willing to do and what are you willing to lose? I think is probably how I would define risk. And I think for me, what am I willing to do? I'm willing to do anything. Um, you know, I'm willing to do whatever it takes. And that's kind of, you know, my mindset and personality is.

You know, just whatever it takes to win, um, you know, whatever that that definition is, you know, in in terms of what am I willing to lose. I think that's a really tough question. And I think that that becomes something that everyone needs to look inward and say, hey, what am I truly willing to lose and risk? Ведець мані, ведець там.

Um, I think those are probably the two most important things that people should be willing to to lose. You know, beyond that, I don't think you should ever be willing to risk your ethics or your morals. So I don't think those are on the table for me. But I think there's some level of, hey, what am I willing to put on the table? to make something happen uh and and am I prepared to do that? So twelve years ago You were

single with a family? Uh married, married with uh with one child at the time. Yeah. So uh you know, you talk about risk. It's it's not just what are you willing to risk, right? It's what is your family willing to to support you and risk as well. Big big part of the equation for sure. And you come home and you say, hey, honey, you know, this is something I'm gonna do. Uh this is something I want to do.

What did that look like? Yeah, I I think it's uh this is something I have to do. Uh and I think I think for me it was I'm I'm willing to take some risk because I feel like if I don't make this move. I will always have some level of regret. Um and and my wife, God love her, she's so supportive. Um, you know, obviously she was very supportive of that move and and she knows that I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I do everything I can to make it happen. Um but it was interesting because when I

When I came home and said, Hey, I'm I'm gonna do this. And then I went and told, you know, my employer at the time, hey, I'm leaving for this opportunity, he really threw a lot at me. Hey, I'm gonna pay you more money, I'm gonna give you this, I'm gonna do this. And so I come home and I tell my wife and I said, Hey. You know, I I I put in my notice and here's what he said, and here's what he was offering me. And she's like, Well, that's fantastic. That sounds like you're gonna stay, huh?

I was like, No. And she's like, why not? You know, and I think for me it just came down to just again, I just I had to take that risk. And I think knowing what's important to me was creating an opportunity to prove myself and to be able to be an integral part of building something uh bigger than myself. And and I knew that if I didn't take that risk and and make that move, that at some point I would look back and have a little regret. And then so, you know, again, my wife is is amazing.

Very supportive and she's like, Great, sounds like you have your answer. Let's go do this. Um, holding her hand supporting you the whole way. Yeah, very important. Very important. So we get involved in the business. And you show up day one, what happens now?

It's a disaster. I mean it's more so more so than you thought it was? More so, you know, you just can't even really picture it. And I think, you know, the the my partner, you know, he told me up front, he was very upfront, hey, this is the challenge that I can't guarantee you anything. I don't know if we're gonna be in like he was very upfront, almost to the point of of making sure I knew.

that this could go poorly and that and that I had to make a really, you know, firm commitment. And so I I appreciate that from him. But I think, you know, coming in, it's like, hey, We again we we gotta rip this this company in two and we gotta start over with, you know, all new infrastructure, IT, you know, HR, accounting. I mean, we had no back office, anything.

We had a couple of people that were were splitting over and so really trying to figure out how do we support this business while it's running and not break it. And so that was a that was a really big challenge. early on. And it and it took us a number of years to get settled in. And and and again, the reason we split was because

you know, our CEO wanted to have uh a new product focus and really shift the product, you know, that we were selling. And so not only did we have to start over, but we also shifted a large part of what we were selling. And so that was A lot of challenges early on. I mean, it took us a good four or five years to get to get stabilized and have some level of confidence that, hey, we can actually do this. But how did you how did you have the confidence to make that move?

when you didn't have the confidence to that the product would the product would take. Part of it was and and it's you know, you're getting into a lot of the details of healthcare, but there's There was a lot of changes at that time in terms of, you know, reimbursement, cost cuts. I mean, so it was almost a a necessity of, hey, if we don't do this, I don't know that this company will remain in business. So we truly had to force ourselves into that box and say, we're going to sell.

this product and we're gonna go out and and market in an in a whole new way in terms of what we're doing. And so it was a it was a forced necessity. I think there was a lot of hard decisions at that time. that were made because we knew we had to make those decisions.

And then it's just an iterative process of okay, try this, didn't work, try this, didn't work. You know, fit you talk about failing fast. It's how quickly can we figure some things out and iterate until we get to a level of success. And then once we find a a plan that works.

How do we how do we build a repeatable, scalable model from there? Sounds like partially a mindset and partially uh getting the team together. How do you prepare yourself to know that you're going to fail at first? Until you succeed. And when that succeed is going to happen.

Success is gonna be that. Um, good question. I think I think a lot of it is, you know, a a little bit of confidence in just yourself, right? You're betting on yourself that you're gonna figure it out. I think it's also just surrounding yourself with the right people that that you know are gonna have the same grit and and and just

focus that you have to say, hey, I'm not going to allow myself to fail, right? I may make a mistake. I may fail in this short term issue, but long term we are going to keep fighting through until we find something that works.

And it's just truly a confidence that, hey, you know, I mean, we're not the smartest guys in the room, but I can tell you, you know, we'll we're willing to outwork about anybody and we've got enough intelligence to figure out that, hey, we're gonna we're gonna come up with something that works and we'll find a solution.

No, I was gonna say I think every entrepreneur, you know, you think about, you know, what it takes to be an entrepreneur, you almost have to have that mindset of Just, you know, just a blind confidence in yourself that, hey, I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to put in the effort and I'm going to I'm going to shround myself with people and tools to get the job done that.

You know, if if there was a guarantee and you needed a guarantee, nothing would ever be created, right? It's just people that say, Hey, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna figure it out. And you know, if I fail a little bit, fine, but I'm not gonna fail. I'm not gonna ultimately fail. I'm I'm gonna continue to work until I find a solution. But you needed the help of others. It wasn't yourself on an island. So

uh how are you able to get that message across to others to come along on the boat with you? Yeah, I think I think it's and this is uh probably one of the most important parts of building a business is Just finding the right people and finding the right fit. You know, you have to find people that have an aligned mindset with you of, hey, I'm willing to do this.

And and I'm not gonna let, you know, something stop me. You know, hurdles are gonna come up, but I'm gonna go over them or I'm gonna go through them. And I think it's truly just making sure that you find the right people on that, on that trip with you that are gonna be aligned.

And they're going to drive and and row in the same direction. Um, I think that's one of the most important things of any business. I don't care how big or small. You gotta find the right people and then you gotta get them in the right seats. When you talk about these hurdles, I I think well, you know, when we've been talking in the past.

It was people don't really appreciate all those hurdles along the way. So can you help help paint a picture for an audience? Yeah. About your business specifically and the hurdle and and a hurdle or two that you were faced along the way early on that you overcame. The goal is to really try to capture the essence of of the challenge. Yeah. And I think I think there's there's two challenges there and and you you talked about one of them and is

You know, to to give an idea, our business over the last seven years has grown an average of 27% every single year. You know, we we have a very consistent, clear growth strategy and we implement it and we're growing very very aggressively but but not breaking, right? And we're doing it with a lot of organic growth. And so we for seven years straight, we've we've had great consistent growth. Um and so, you know, people that come in the business now.

They just assume that's what it is, right? Well you're we're just gonna grow twenty-five percent a year because that's what we do. And so one of the challenges is getting them to understand that this didn't happen overnight. You know, like I said, it took us five years to get to the point before we even really grew at all. And so I think one of the challenges is getting people to understand.

what it took to get here. And I think that's really hard if you haven't been a part of that journey to truly understand and comprehend what it takes. Uh in in terms of the struggle of getting here, you know, if you know, good example, and this is this is one of the things that we really And you talk about failing fast.

So we decided to switch our product mix and you know basically what we're gonna do is we're gonna go into these these seating clinics and we're gonna start selling into these clinics because this new product mix. is, you know, has a has a a good amount of patients that are going in there. And then we just, you know, we're a great sales team. We're just gonna go in there and, you know, magically just sell, right? We'll we go into these seating clinics and

And all of a sudden we get hit with, you know, basically these therapists are saying, Well, why on earth would I work with you? You've never done this before. I've been working with Joe over here for twenty years. And I trust him, I know him, we have rapport. And so all of a sudden, this great scheme that we had as far as how we were going to go to market and we run into this just brick wall. And it's like, well, that was dumb, right? That's that's not gonna work.

Um, we can't do it that way. And so I think that was probably our big first hurdle of like, oh no, this is this is not the right, you know, go to market approach. And so again, you know, quickly realizing that having a feedback loop of, hey, this is the challenges that we're getting. And instead of trying to continue to bang our head against that wall, we just came up with a new solution and a new methodology in terms of who we're marketing to and who we're selling to.

And so it's it's defined our approach and now we have a whole strategy built around that, which we never would have if we didn't run into that wall. And I think it's I think it's allowed us to be very successful and grow quickly. But man, was that a struggle? And was that just a punch in the mouth, right? When we're like, oh, we got this great plan and we're, let's go. We do this massive national sales training and we roll it out.

And then just, nope, that's not gonna work. Uh and so, you know, that that's just a good example of of challenges that we face and then and then quickly having to regroup and say, Hey, now what? Uh, because that's clearly not gonna be the solution.

Oh, to me that the first thing I think of is, well, you've just spent a lot of money. You've spent a lot of money on something that turned out to be a zero. So and money's not endless.

And unlimited. How'd you do that, right?'Cause it you either went to market and you raised some money or you bootstrapped your way. So w which which way did you choose? Yeah, we've you know, so it's it's interesting is we've we bootstrapped the entire way um and and it's It's funny we talk about it now where, you know, people wanna invest in our business and give us money and and we just were like we don't need it.

And and it's it's different'cause a lot of people, you know, fund their their business through through investors and and the re reason we don't need it is and re we don't have any debt is because no one would give us money early on, right? So

And so nobody would give us money. So we just figured out, hey, we gotta figure this out and we've got to bootstrap it and we're gonna we're gonna do everything from operating cash flow and and figure it out from there. And so, you know, uh some hard choices, you know, we made some really tough decisions along the way because it was

you know, our money and and you know, you make a lot of different decisions when it's your money and when it runs out, you you don't have any other choices. So um I think that forced us to be a little bit, you know, gritty in the in the way we've approached things, but it definitely has served us well and it's placed us in a great position now as a company.

What does hard decisions mean? What what were some of those hard decisions? Yeah, uh, I'll tell you one of them was um, you know, I told you there was there was price compression and there was reimbursement changes in the healthcare model. And and the way we used to compensate our sales reps. was when they would deliver equipment, they would get a commission. And we realized that, you know, it basically went from the main product we were selling, it went from a purchase model to a rental model.

So instead of getting reimbursed one time in one lump sum, you're getting paid out over 13 months. Well, you can only imagine what that does to your cash flow. And and so we realized that we had to change our compensation model to where we would pay them commission based on payments received instead of deliveries made. And when we made that decision I just I remember.

You know, rolling that out to our VP of sales and and our national sales trainer and the looks on their faces were just like, this is not gonna fly. I don't know what this is gonna do. Um, you know, and there was there was a lot of a lot of pushback and a lot of, hey, we can't do this, and here's what's gonna happen and we're gonna lose all these sales reps.

And and the short answer was, it doesn't matter. You know, we we have to make this decision because we don't have another choice. And yes, we're gonna lose sales reps and and we're gonna get through it and it is what it is. And so when we roll it out. I mean, we immediately lost probably twenty five to thirty percent of our sales force overnight. How many people was that?

At the time it was probably we probably had a forty to fifty person sales force. Wow. And so we immediately lost, you know, a good chunk of of people. And I think eventually probably fifty to sixty percent of them left over the next six to eight months. And, you know, and and I I understood it completely. It's like, hey, listen, you're gonna make a major change to my compensation structure. If I have to start over, I'm gonna start over somewhere else as opposed to starting over here.

I get it. It's hard, it's hard to get over that um for a lot of people. And and for us, we just we knew we had to make that decision. And we did and we ripped the band aid and you know

Thank thankfully it worked out. You know, our VP of sales, national sales trainer. You know, the good thing about those those individuals is, you know, when we make a decision, we can disagree in the room, but the second we walk out, we are aligned and we are all about execution. And and thankfully for that, we just we powered through it. You know, and it was it was a lot of change, a lot of challenges, but

You know, if we didn't do that, we would have we would have been, you know, really burning too much cash and and it would have been a struggle to stay in business. At the risk of taking the of the the time it would take for you to revamp to get all to to win that business as well. So you had to You also had to find that gap, fill that gap between the two, between the sales and and the rentals coming in. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Major challenge. I look back now and I think, man, I don't know how the heck we've I I don't know how we're still in business. I mean there's a lot of there was a lot of challenges early on. And I think, you know, again, you look back and you're just

You know, it's it's interesting because you tell war stories of of things that went went and happened and there's some people that recognize they're like, holy cow, like that's just crazy to think that you had to get through all that. Um and and I think it's just, you know, part of you know, the entrepreneurial mindset.

is, you know, you don't have a choice. You're just gonna fight through it and you're gonna you know, you're gonna fight and find a way. And and that's really a lot of what you can do and the only thing you can do. You can't sit there and worry about it and overthink about it. Just fight and find a way and figure it out. What do you think is the uh biggest

misunderstanding about what entrepreneurship is for those people who who come into it now. You know, I think probably the one thing that most people don't understand is how it never leaves you. And and what I mean by that is, you know, people they they think about being an entrepreneur and they're like, oh, it's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be great. I'm gonna be in charge. And I think people don't truly understand until they're in it that, you know, you never stop thinking about the business.

You know, it's not a clock in, clock out type situation. Even when you're on vacation, you never stop thinking about it, whether you're worrying about it or you're just thinking about decisions that need to be made and moves that need to be made. It just it's really, it's not for everyone. And I think that people need to understand, you know, what is their, what is their level of emotional agility to be able to absorb that long term.

And and you know, it's interesting. I I never, you know, never really thought about it until my wife started a coffee shop. And, you know, for two years, three years now she's been running a business and she she always says to me, why didn't you tell me?

You know, I can't I can't ever stop thinking about this coffee shop. Why didn't you tell me that's what this was gonna be like? Um and I never really thought about it until she really put it out there. But I think that's probably the biggest misconception is people need to be prepared for

what that shift is like. It's interesting that you you bring that up about thinking all the time about it because I was speaking with David Oak, uh co-founder of a company called Shop Keep, a point of sale system. And he was talking about how he couldn't do now what he did then because when he w when he was starting a company. He lived across the street from his business. He didn't have children, he was engaged. Not married.

Now he wants to be with his family. So I'm I'm wondering how do you compartmentalize it? How do you do that? So even though you're thinking about it all the time, you can still be present with your family. Yeah, I I think he used the right word, which is compartmentalize.

You know, I think I think you have to take approach of, you know, when when do I do certain things? And I think that's probably been, you know, the biggest adjustment for me is just making sure that, you know, when I walk in the door, I try and put my phone on the shelf and and truly just spend time with my family because that's really important to me. And and I think in general, I think with

with running a business, you know, you you have to find a way to compartmentalize in some capacity, right? I think it's really hard, but I do think that is exactly the right word that that you have to figure that out. Otherwise you will burn out eventually.

And when you think about your family and you think about your boys and uh and their futures and you think about your own background, you were talking about you didn't want to look back. Number one, you didn't want to look back and and say, What if I should have done that? So and that you were comfortable with risk. So is that something that uh that you grew up with?

Is that, you know, was that instilled in you early from from your family? Yeah, I think you know what was probably instilled in me, uh I'm I'm one of four boys, uh very competitive household. I'm the youngest, uh, you know, my dad was in the military, so we moved around a lot. And I think If I think about the things that were instilled in me the most was, you know, one is You know, never let anybody outwork you. You know, my my dad, again, military farm background, just very focused on.

You know, everything you want is on the other side of hard work. And and just don't ever let anybody outwork you, whether it's work, whether you're playing a sport, whatever it is, just give everything you got. And I think that was instilled in me. very quickly and I think that has helped me for sure in terms of You know, just fighting through challenges as an entrepreneur. I think the other thing that was instilled in me, you know, again, just being a military uh brat, if you will, is

You know, moving around and just having to adapt to situations quickly. You know, you move to a new school and you just you gotta make new friends and you gotta adapt to situations. And get comfortable with the fact that you're not always going to be in control of every decision and you just deal with it. And I think those are two things that

You know, I learned early on. And I think those are two traits that have really helped me from an entrepreneurial standpoint. You know, and if I think about traits that I would want my kids to to you know receive as well. I mean, clearly the hard work, I think that's something I value probably beyond about anything. And I hope that they understand that. And and I think I think if I think about what I want them to to take from an entrepreneurial standpoint is

It's not for everybody. You know, if if you don't want to start your own business and you don't have the level of of comfort with risk or or, you know, putting yourself out there, that is fine. You know, don't don't feel like you have to do something that you're not prepared to do.

And and just, you know, do something that you enjoy and that you really want to do, you know, as an individual. Would you embrace with open arms if all three boys said, We wanna be entrepreneurs, we wanna start our own businesses? Absolutely. Uh absolutely. And I would I would do anything I could to help them. Uh and and you know, I think you said it earlier in the conversation. You know, I recognize that nobody does anything alone.

You know, nobody is successful on their own for the most part. And I think, you know, making sure they know that, hey, I would do anything I can to help them be successful in their own right because you're gonna need people. You know, every one of us needs someone. And in a lot of cases, a lot of people to to have some level of success. So

I would absolutely help'em. Uh I would hopefully be a little bit of a guide and a mentor for'em um and do whatever I could to to get'em on their journey. And how have you, as we uh now we turn it back to you and your experience.

How are you able to be successful in surrounding yourself? with good people who help who helped lift you up. Yeah. I think, you know, one of the probably uh underappreciated traits I think of anybody who is either building a business is having the ability to to capture the right talent around you, you know, and and I think that's something that I've I've gotten a lot better at over the years is figuring out.

who I like to work with, uh, but also making sure that I'm aligned and that I have people around me that, you know, maybe compliment my weaknesses, things that I'm not great at, you know, making sure that, you know, we're we have a full complement and a team. And I think that's something that Yeah, I've spent a lot of time and we we constantly are looking at not only just structure, but also who is the right candidate and what attributes do they have.

To come onto the team. I think building a team is probably one of the most important things anybody can do to run a business is just make sure that you have the ability to find talent. Cultivate talent and keep talent uh around you. What's the biggest misnomer about that uh that team building Based upon what you think is your experience.

I think one thing that I've learned is that, and especially for us as we've been a growing company, is that, you know, as as you put somebody in a position, they may not always be great in that position. You know, and in in and whether it's the company changes, the person changes, things change.

And you got to be ready to adapt. And you know, we've had a number of instances over the years where we've grown so rapidly and we put someone in a position and we keep giving them more and more and more and and we expect that they're going to be able to grow at the same pace as the company. And it doesn't always happen.

And and I think being able to kind of respond to that the right way is really, really important. You know, we've had a number of times over the years where someone's in a position and they do a great job. And then as we grow and they take on more responsibility, we recognize that you know, they've they've hit the the cap of their capabilities and they're drowning a little bit or a lot of bit in some cases.

And we've got a course correct. And and I think I see a lot of a lot of people make this mistake where they don't want to have that hard conversation and and they don't want to kind of either reposition that person. And and it ultimately hurts the company. And so I think if you take the approach and you communicate effectively and you've built trust that, hey, The company has this need and we're going to focus on what's the most important thing for the company. And your position may change.

And we all accept that, you know, I mean things are gonna change and and we all have to accept the company comes first and then the individuals win. And if you build the right company and the right culture where everyone understands you gotta leave your ego at the door. Those conversations, you know, they sting a little bit, but but guess what? People get put in the right position and then all of a sudden it's amazing what happens is.

All of a sudden you just see this weight off their shoulders, you know, because someone's in a position where they were failing and they knew it, but they couldn't they couldn't admit to it and they certainly don't want to give up, right? We we build a company of fighters. No one wants to say, hey, I'm failing, I want to quit.

But when you put them in the right position, they just kind of go, Oh, thank God. And now I can go be successful and enjoy what I do. And I think that's just something that I've learned over the years that I think is really difficult for some people to capture and recognize when it's happening. You were Talking about Failure.

And uh and and raising your hand if you're not good at something or it's not going as well as you'd like, or you might not necessarily be in the position that you're uh you're able to thrive in. And I'm wondering about before the twenty seven percent annual growth. There was the time that you were kind of just

flatlined and not going anywhere. You had clearly tons of self confidence. There's no doubt there's no doubt there. You believed in yourself and you you believed in what you were doing. Uh but I was wondering if there was a time When you came home and you said, uh, you know, honey, you know

I'm s I'm banging my head up against a wall. I don't know, you know, I don't know if we're gonna make it or, you know, my thesis isn't playing out in such words, uh or in other words. You know, was there that what was were there those moments? Was there a moment that you can recall? I don't think so. And and I think part of it is is probably because of the team that we have, you know, and I think I think it's amazing how whenever I even sense myself kind of getting into

a little bit like, uh, you know, it just it's amazing how you just have others around you that energize you. And it just, you know, and that's where I think, you know, the idea of an entrepreneur or somebody doing something all on their own. It can be done, but man, it's so much easier when you got partners that are just there and it's like, okay, we're gonna just keep fighting together and it's just

that energy just continues to to rebound and and grow. And so thankfully, no, I've I've never really felt to the point where I'm like, man, I don't think this is going to work. And a lot of that's just because we've got great people at our company that that just re-energize and just keep fighting through together.

Pretty amazing considering you've been at it for twelve years. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'm curious because you are y you've got that spirit in you, has being involved in the business and seeing all of its different iterations over the over the the term it has, has it created other opportunities? Has it created other business lines or other products or other services that

at first y we're not even anywhere on your radar screen? Yeah, it has. And and I think what it's done is it's um, you know, we've gone through a couple of different uh periods where, you know, we we almost brought on a new product line, you know, or Or, you know, we added something to the company. And I think we've we've tested a few of those over the years. And quite honestly, what we've gotten to is just that.

You know, we have a very kind of niche business, niche product within rehab medical. And, you know, again, I said we're in 17 states. There's, there's a bunch more out there. You know, the idea that we're going to add a bunch of ancillary products, I think all that's done is what we realized very quickly is it just it just took our focus off, you know, and and instead of trying to stay narrow and stay really good at what we do.

It shifted a little bit and we recognize that that was a mistake. Uh, and so we've made the firm decision that we're gonna stay very focused. on this product, on this on this business model and and really not add a lot of ancillary products to it, if at all any. In fact, we had actually purchased a wound care company. And we ended up kind of divesting it. And so we still, you know, there's still ownership of that company, but it's now through a holding company.

Um and so we've just recognized that, you know, we really want to have different businesses that are truly run separate as their own entity, with their own focus, with their own mission and and strategic plan. And so I think that's where we've we've just recognized that's that's what's allowed us to be successful, is not Not just adding too much and not not turning the head too much. Just stay focused. Let's go.

And how do you fight off competition? Our industry is very interesting in that regard. You know, there's a there's a couple of very large companies in our space that are private equity backed. And and I think what we've created is a model that's very different than them. And so I think we you know, we compete with them, but quite honestly I don't

I don't know that I focus much on competition. I I really feel like for me it's I'm not trying to steal market share. We're not in that kind of an environment. I'm almost just more focused on how do we go and grow the business.

And and I'd almost rather go out into areas where there is no competition or it's minimal competition because I know we're really good at what we do. And I think if we just focus on what we do well, I'm just not l as concerned or focused on the competitive nature of our of our industry. Kind of a crossroads, if you're not dealing with competition and you're not focused on market share, but you're foc but you're getting this awesome growth.

Is it from just green field opportunity? Where does it come from? Does it come from selling uh you don't have multiple product lines, so you're not selling deeper into a a relationship. So how do you how do you do how do you do that? Yeah, it's not that we don't have competition. I think I just I probably focus less of my energy on what is the competition doing and how do we how do we outpace them and more just on, hey, this is our model, this is how we execute

This is how we're gonna approach it. You know, we go out into new markets. I think there's a there's a big segment of of of markets that we go into where we're a true sales company and and I think some of our competitors are not, they're more clinically focused and they're not going out into the areas we are because of that. And so I think we create a lot of our own opportunities because of the model that we have. So you're a true sales

Can you dig a little can you tell me a little more of what you mean by that? You're a true sales business? Yeah, I th I think, you know, in in in some in healthcare I think this happens where you have folks that are, you know, they're they're probably waiting back and they're waiting for the business to come to them because they know there's a need for their services and so they're almost just

kind of waiting and saying, Hey, we you know, we have a business and if you need our services, we'll do it. Whereas for us We're we have a really good approach in terms of getting out and educating on, you know, hey, these are the these are the types of patients that that need this equipment. These are the qualifications that they have. And so for us it's going out and meeting

meeting the need um in instead of waiting for it to come to us. You know, I feel very fortunate to to have somebody who is twelve years of experience sitting with me and has learned and made a lot of mistakes along the way, but has thrived as a result. I'm wondering if you can r reflect back and And answer the question.

of if I knew then what I know now and fill in the blank. Yeah. If I if I knew now well I I probably never would have taken the leap. No, I I I think You know, if I look back and I and I say, you know, what are some things that I wish I knew then that I know now? I I think

You know, one of the things I definitely learned is you don't get out of anything. But, you know, and I think about this in terms of of running a business and running into mistakes and trying to deal with them. And I think I think, you know, for me, anytime I see a challenge or I see something that needs to change, I just I face it head on and, you know, I'm very direct about, hey, this is what I'm seeing and this is what I think we need to do.

Whereas I think in the past I probably would have either tried to to to be nice and not hurt someone's feelings because I'd be so focused on that aspect of it instead of, hey, what does the business need? You know, and I think in terms of, you know, I talked about you know, people being in the wrong positions, I think I think that's something where I recognize now how important that is.

and how critical it is that the second you sense someone's in the wrong spot uh that you address it in in in you know it's it's not a matter of I'm, you know, I'm not cold or calculating where I don't care about people's feelings. I care about their feelings and that's part of the reason why those things need to be addressed head on because you don't get it. It's gonna happen, it's gonna become an issue and you have to address it immediately.

And the sooner you address it, the sooner that individual feels better, the sooner the company is going to perform better. You know, and again, it it all comes with starting with a level of trust. You know, you can't have those conversations until you've built up a level of trust and you have a culture where they know.

that no matter what, I'm focused on the company first because, you know, without the company, we don't we don't have anything else. You know, no money, no mission. Right. And and and everyone has to buy into that.

And be a part of that. And so I think that, you know, the sooner you realize that that you don't get out of anything and that, you know, things are gonna be hard and you gotta you gotta face them head on. I just I think that you just get you just get there quicker. And I think that's one thing that it's taken me a while to understand that. But I definitely

feel that way now. What does that say mean? No money, no mission? No money, no mission. Um, you know, w I I say that because we're in healthcare and our mission is to improve lives. And, you know, we're really focused on improving the lives of our patients, but also the improv the improving the lives of our employees.

And I think sometimes people think, well, you're in healthcare and so, you know, you you know, they there's they shy away from conversations about profit and being a profitable organization. You know, for me, I never shy away from that because we have to make money. If we don't make money, we can't improve lives. You know, so no, no money, no mission. You know, we we have to make money.

We gotta generate a profit. We we gotta, you know, use that money to make sure that we're continuing to be a going concern and focus on what we're ultimately trying to accomplish. And and again, I that's another thing I've just learned that. You know, sometimes people want to shy away from from being honest about what we're trying to do. And hey, you know, what are we trying to do? Go back to that cause. And it's a lot easier to have those conversations.

But how do you deal with the stress of uh of of having an organization of six hundred six hundred people, you know, who are you you are responsible for the li their their livelihoods. Yeah. Well, you know, we all have stress, right, Greg? I mean, it's it's it's finding the stress that you're fine with and that you can manage. Sure I get stressed, but there's things that I get stressed about that I enjoy working on. You know, the things that I get stressed on

that I enjoy working on. Those are those are challenges and and and that's what keeps me moving. Uh the things that I the stress I don't like. You know, I would say try and find somebody who does like that stress and and delegate it to them uh and figure out how they can manage it. But

You know, I I think, you know, it kind of goes back to what you said earlier in the conversation is just, you know, figure out how to compartmentalize things. Um, you know, I think that goes with stress too. How do you compartmentalize it? How do you put it in its right spot? And then again, things that you don't like dealing with, you know, find find somebody who does like dealing with it, who who that's the stress that they like to manage.

And then and then build a team and and make sure you get the right people on the bus. And words of advice about failure, because we keep on hearing from Founders look, you know, it's good to fail, right? You know, Einstein had, you know, a thousand, you know, products, creations, inventions before he got the right one, you know, and uh fail forward and you know, failure is great, right? But failure really sucks in the moment.

I don't know. Tell me about your, you know. Yeah. I I am absolutely in the opposite camp. You know, I hear all these people say, Oh, failure's great. No, it's not. Failure's terrible. I hate it. Um, it's never good, right? It's You know, and and people that that, you know, like to try and make make a big thing out of it. And no, we love to fail, fail fast, failure is great. No, it's not. It's terrible. It's horrible. And and there are failure points that if you catch the wrong one, you are done.

And so I'm not a proponent of I love failure. Uh I hate failure. I I think for me it's It's, you know, just try and figure out how to manage it. You know, try and figure out that, you know, there's some level of you gotta take the emotion out. And that goes with success and failure. And and I'm just a big proponent that.

You know, don't let your lows get too low and don't let your highs get too high. You know, it's it's you can't help but be on somewhat of an emotional roller coaster when you're running a business. And you just you just gotta figure out how do I how do I try and keep it somewhat smooth, you know, without without letting those failures break me. I think that's really the most important thing for me personally. I think that takes time and experience.

It's the only way. Especially if you're saying that whenever your your your eyes are open, you're thinking, or even when your eyes are closed, you're thinking about your business. to not be, you know, so emotionally invested, it sounds very hard to detach. Yeah, it is really hard. And I think that's where, you know, any recommendation I would give to someone who's who's looking at uh you know starting a business is

I think just a a fair amount of self-reflection of, you know, how would you deal with that? Because I and I'll go back to saying it again, it's not for everybody. Um and so understanding your emotional you know, kind of wherewithal to say, hey, what can I handle? What is my risk level? You know, I I think truly that's probably the most important thing that I would recommend someone assess about themselves before they jump into starting a business or buying a business. And as we wrap up,

You know, I want to give you the opportunity to uh to just mention anything that you think we may have missed or you'd like or or you'd like people to know. You know, I I'm incredibly appreciative of the the time that you uh that you've given us. I I love the fact that

You know, we met in Bar Harbor, Maine, and just put it out in the universe that I uh that I had a podcast and sure enough I meet you and uh and and learn about your business and so just wanna give you, you know, give you the opportunity to speak.

Yeah, I you know, I think I I love that story because I think it's it's just, you know, it's paramount to to my approach, which is, you know, never, never shy away from a random opportunity, right? You know, I mean we just happen to to to meet each other and we're talking and you say, Hey, I do this, great. Here's my contact information. I think You never know when an opportunity is gonna present itself. And so I think just in general, being prepared and being open and

You know, just being ready to to live life. I think that's very important for anybody in general. If you approach that and say, look, opportunity is everywhere, how do you make sure that you allocate the right amount of time that you don't end up chasing the next shiny object? Yeah, that's that's a great comment. Um, I I would say that that you gotta get used to saying no a lot and and know what's important to you. I think that's probably, you know, we we talk about

you know, time being the most valuable resource we have. I think that's and especially in today's day and age where you have LinkedIn and Twitter and, you know, a million ways that people can reach out to you and and try and

you know, spend some time with you. I think that is a really important thing is understanding what you're willing to to do and and where you're either gonna add value for yourself or add value to someone else and say, hey, that's worthwhile. Um I think I think learning to say no is Definitely something I it's say that's taken me a long time to get there. Um, because you know, early on in your career, you're like, yes to everything, right? And that's what gets you opportunities.

Later on in your career, you go, I gotta say no to everything because I have limited time uh that I have to invest in in in what we're trying to accomplish. Well, I appreciate you saying yes. This has been wonderful. Kevin, I uh I'm really glad that we were able to carve out this time. And I wanted to wish uh you and the company just the utmost continued success. Greg, I appreciate that. And uh again, thank you for your time, man. It's been good. It's been great. Thanks so much, Kevin.