Why this episode wouldn't work in print

There's a reason people talk about having NPR driveway moments. You know, when you finally get home but keep sitting in your car, or pause whatever else you're doing, because you have to listen to the rest of a story. Some radio is that good, that memorable. We're constantly on the hunt for great sound. But some of us at NPR wrote for newspapers before getting here. I'm one of those people. I worked at the Boston Globe for about 17 years, writing countless stories of all kinds during that time.

And when I switched to radio, I thought the writing would be the same, but instead of my story appearing in print, I'd just read it out loud. I immediately learned that a great newspaper story does not automatically make a great on-air story. NPR investigative correspondent Laura Sullivan used to work for the Baltimore Sun, and she quickly had the same realization. When you read a newspaper story, I mean, it's a nightmare.

on the radio. It's just this, it's lead in, it's long, it's really involved. It's one skill to write for print. It's a very different skill to write for the ear. Radio writing needs to be shorter, simpler. NPR's roving national correspondent Frank Langfitt also used to work at the Baltimore Sun, and he now prefers radio writing over newspaper style.

We had a certain kind of orthodoxy of writing imposed upon us that it's not the way anyone ever speaks. I kind of agree. And I felt that I was completely liberated to write as I would speak. And I'm always thinking if I'm having a pint in a pub with someone... Consider this. Radio reporting uses the same journalism skills as reporting for text, but a powerful radio story can bring characters on and off the stage.

From NPR News, I'm Sasha Pfeiffer. Support for NPR and the following message come from NBC News, a news source that brings clarity to the stories that matter by asking tough questions and holding every fact up to the light. Coverage that steadies, stories that connect. NBC News, reporting for America. Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise. Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day.

Washington Wise from Charles Schwab is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. Listen at schwab.com slash Washington Wise. This message comes from Schwab. Everyone has moments when they could have done better. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education and human help when you need it.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Sasha Pfeiffer. Recently, NPR's Laura Sullivan and Frank Langfitt and I met up to talk about some of the ways radio reporting differs from our previous newspaper lives. I wanted to know more about how Viv felt about making the transition from print to radio, and I asked them to share what makes audio storytelling different.

how they know when they've discovered Radio Gold. It's a lot like theater in a way, or film, in that it's a great way to convey to people and sort of what will feel organic to them. And sometimes if I'm building a story, I might say if I've got enough time, I want three separate scenes with different characters. But I'm going to give you an example a little bit about, you know, what it sounds like when you write it because I wrote this and then what it sounds like when you hear it.

So, okay, very briefly, I'm tracking elephants in South Sudan. We're in helicopters. We're flying around. We track an elephant, hit him with a dart. Down he goes. So here's what I wrote. Within five minutes, the elephant's lying on its side, unconscious in a bed of parched grass. The men leap out of the helicopter, go to work. The veterinarian opens the elephant's nostrils with a stick and tapes a monitor to its eyelid to check vital signs.

That's not the greatest writing. You can get a sense of it, but let me play for you what that actually sounded like. The elephant, which is at least 30 years old, is snoring. Nice. Uh-oh. She wants to wake up. You know what we do if she wakes up.

You run. I mean, that's just like one of the best pieces of tape I've ever got. And it tells you how different it is to be out in the savannah of South Sudan. At first, I didn't realize it was a snoring elephant. I thought it was a herd of elephant who were growling. In the bush. I don't know much about elephants, clearly. And so I'm doing like a 360. Oh, what? And then he goes, no, he's snoring. I was like, oh, we're fine. We're not going to get trampled.

You're reminding me that when I worked for WBUR in Boston, I did a story about a young woman who had lost her leg in the Boston Marathon bombing. and later had to have her other leg removed because it was so injured, she ended up getting a service dog that not only helped her with practical things, but made her happier and less depressed because this dog was so fun and joyful. Rescue! Speak!

And this woman had such a beautiful, trilling laugh. Good boy. That's Rescue, an 80-pound black lab specially trained as an assistance dog. He belongs to Jessica Kenske. Yep. You're going to show them your toy? And I listened to that laugh so many times when I would listen to my tape. And I remember thinking if I was still writing for a newspaper, I couldn't convey the joy and delight of that laugh. So there's something about radio.

where you can bring something that you're a little limited with in print. That's true. That's true. I mean, you know, radio, you get to bring the whole scene into it. And all the characters become... What's happening all this, the voices, the sound, what's happening in the room, where you are, it brings the whole thing to life. There also is a different interviewing style required for radio. You know, when I...

worked for The Globe and I interviewed people, I would often laugh, I would react. And with radio, if your voice ends up in the tape, sometimes that works, but that can often be problematic. Absolutely. You got to stop stepping on people. When they're talking, you know, you've got to let them finish their thought and you can't go, uh-huh, uh-huh, through somebody's.

Talking, which you often do. So you have to learn how to do it with your eyes to be like, I'm really into what you're saying. Keep talking without saying it out loud because otherwise you end up ruining your own tape. As a radio reporter, you're best if you're like Marcel Marceau, a mime, and you're just kind of encouraging them but not saying much.

I do remember being with radio reporters when I was a print reporter and I would do exactly what Laura was saying, which is, uh-huh, uh-huh. And the radio reporter was stamping on my feet because I was ruining the poor guy's tape. I would say, though...

that I really love the back and forth. Like on certain kinds of exchanges, if you can do very short questions, you have a sense of dialogue, like you'd have in a film or in theater. Anna Coughlin was sitting on a blanket having a picnic with her mother and three young children. How do you feel about the queen? She's a treasure. I'm curious, how do you feel about Prince Charles?

He's all right, yeah. He's not as charismatic as she is. You know, because she led the country through so many huge... And so that people can hear in the story a real conversation between real people. Yeah, and any type of reporting requires... close listening, but radio, I think, requires a level of listening that might be different than print. I mean, there's really only two questions in radio that we use ad nauseum, which is, and then what happened?

And how did you feel about that? I would say everything in an interview that I do is somehow some version of those two questions. And what you're trying to do is get them to tell a story because then they can bring you to the place where the thing is happening. Radio also requires a different type of interviewing style than for newspapers. And Frank, I think you mentioned you have a good example of this.

So I was in Somalia and we were traveling around covering the fighting there in the Civil War. And I was working with an AP reporter. And she's a great reporter. But her interview was like a million questions. It was just staccato. She was basically extracting as much information as possible, as efficiently as she could from this, you know, major. And then I was talking to him. And so the first thing I said to him is.

Well, tell me about your family. And of course, his whole demeanor completely changed. He started talking about the people he had left behind, how difficult it was to be fighting in Mogadishu. And then I began to ask them, well, like, how were you trained? And they said, we were taught to jungle fight, so we have no idea how to do house to house in this sort of urban warfare.

And so it just ended up being much more interesting. And I got all the information. I mean, I piggybacked on the AP reporter. And so I had all the facts. But I was able to get just a much more sense of who these people were, the challenges that they faced.

What about when there's very limited sound to work with? How do you deal with that situation? I had this situation happen last year. We were doing a story about historical markers, you know, these signs that... don't make any noise and are incredibly leadenly written. I mean, they're just really, a lot of them are really very boring. This historical person did this historical thing. Exactly. And then they died. And so I was trying to figure out in print, you can do this very...

easily because you can just link to all the signs and you can write giant paragraphs explaining the randomness of all these historical markers. But how do you like turn that into the radio? And so then I kind of thought, you know, actually, maybe that could kind of work for us. What if we just read these giant paragraphs?

listing all of these signs and sort of implying the actual randomness of these signs by just overwhelming the listener with them. Kentucky and Missouri both claim to be the home of Daniel Boone. Michigan and Alabama both claim to be the home of the first Western Railroad, while Maryland and New Jersey both claim to have sent the first telegram. The country also has at least 14 markers to ghosts, two witches, one vampire, a wizard.

I remember this graph in your story. It was this blizzard of random historical markers that you read. And it was a huge block of text, but it worked really well on the radio. Exactly. And it goes against everything we were trained in radio, where it was like, you're not supposed to.

read these giant blocks of text. But in that one particular instance, I think it helped people understand what we were talking about. That's NPR reporters Laura Sullivan and Frank Langfitt. Thank you. Thanks so much. Happy to do it, Sasha. This episode was produced by Lina Muhammad. It was edited by Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Sasha Pfeiffer.

This message comes from the Council for Interior Design Qualification. Interior Designer and CIDQ President Siavash Madani discusses why certified professionals know that good design is more than just how something looks. Being NCIDQ certified means you've qualified to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public in the spaces that you design. Good design is never just about aesthetics. It's about intention, safety, and impact.

So an NCIDQ certified interior designer must complete a minimum of six years of specialized education and work experience and pass the three-part NCIDQ exam. All three exams emphasize and focus on health, safety, and welfare of the occupants. Being NCIDQ certified means that you've proven your knowledge and skills.

through rigorous exams and are recognized as a qualified interior design professional. Learn more at CIDQ.org slash NPR. This message comes from Instacart. Did you see the game last night? Of course you did, because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock. Plus, you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play. And that's multitasking. So Instacart isn't saying it's a hack for game day.

but it might be the ultimate play this football season. Enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply. Valid on three orders within 14 days. Excludes restaurants. Instacart. We're here.