Over tea, a deal with Damascus and a possible turning point for Middle East diplomacy

Over the past half century, U.S. presidents have made their first international visits to one of three countries, Canada, Mexico, or the United Kingdom. ...traveled to London with President Carter this past weekend and met with his counterpart in the British government, President George... Bush met with Mexico's President Vicente Fox

at the Mexican president's ranch last week. We are welcoming a new day in the relationship between America and Mexico. The visit to Ottawa was Mr. Obama's first foreign trip as president. As neighbors, we are so closely linked that sometimes we may have a tendency to take... Only one president in the past 50 years has broken with that tradition.

President Trump is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. This is the first stop on his first trip overseas as president. In 2017, President Trump made Saudi Arabia his first international trip. and he followed suit this year on his first major diplomatic swing of his second term.

This past week, Trump met with leaders in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE. His arrival was greeted with fanfare across the region. There were motorcades featuring Teslas, long processions of Arabian horses and camels, traditional dances. musical performances. During Trump's first visit as president in 2017, his focus was mostly on religious tension in the region between Israel and its Muslim-majority neighbors. But this time, it was all business.

According to the White House, Saudi Arabia agreed to invest $600 billion in the United States. Qatar placed a huge order for Boeing passenger jets, and the White House says the UAE agreed to a $200 billion deal with the U.S., though the figures and the finer details of all of these deals are still murky.

But the biggest announcement of Trump's trip was a bit of surprise dealman. After more than 20 years, Trump said the U.S. will lift on Syria following the fall of the Assad regime late last year. The announcement earned him a standing ovation and Syrians celebrated in the streets of Damascus. Though it's Congress that would have final say on whether or not those sanctions are actually lifted.

Trump also met with interim Syrian President Ahmed al-Shara. According to Trump, both parties signaled their willingness not only for peace between Israel and Syria, but for normalization between the two neighbors who have warred on and off for decades. Consider this. President Trump's trip to the Middle East was full of glitz, glam, high-stakes business deals, and surprising moves. Could this moment be a critical turning point for Middle East peace, and can Trump act Lever.

His promises. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. I'm Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long-form interviews with people behind... in film, books, TV, music, and journalism. Here are guests. process and their in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPA. On The Indicator from Planet Money Podcast. sense of the economic news Trump tariffs. It's called in-game

strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy-esque ring to it. To what exactly a... well-funded. Listen to NPR's The Indiegator from Planet Mike. It's Consider This from NPR.

Last week, for the first time in 25 years, the leaders of the United States and Syria met. Moverty, interim Syrian President Shira and President Trump, talked about his announcement that America would soon lift sanctions. They also discussed the possibility that Syria could recognize Israel as a sovereign state. But how did this all go down in Israel, the other side of the peace equation? NPR's Hadil al-Shalji is in Tel Aviv and joins us now to explain. Thanks for joining us. Of course.

This was a surprise meeting it was on the sidelines of Trump's trip. What all happened? So Scott, can we actually just take a minute first? President Ahmad al-Shara is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head. You know, the U.S. used to say that this guy was a terrorist. And now the President of the United States is shaking his hand. So that this meeting even happened is just remarkable. So when they met, the White House said that Trump urged Trump to do three main things.

get rid of all, quote, foreign terrorists from Syria, help the U.S. stamp out any resurgence of ISIS, and to diplomatically recognize Israel. And after that, Trump announced that he vowed to lift the sanctions. Like we said before, that would ultimately come down to Congress, but still, it's a remarkable statement from an American president. If they were lifted, what exactly would that mean for Syria?

Syria could just start to rebuild again. Those sanctions were seriously crippling and lasted more than two decades. You know, when I drove into Damascus a couple of days after Eset fell in December, I could really see the effects of the sanctions. The buildings are falling apart. So many cars are ancient because parts are unavailable. You know, we'd pay for coffee with these. huge wads of cash, because the currency meant nothing.

So getting sanctions lifted was a huge win for Shara. And one thing off his to-do list, he also has to prove to the world that his fighting days are over and that he can make Syria a stable part of the region. And that means also making peace with its neighbor, Israel.

And Israel is a country that is deeply invested in this as well. How is the response in Israel to these statements from Trump? Israel was kind of stunned when they heard that Trump vowed to lift the sanctions. Israeli media was reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was urging Trump not to. You see, Israel's line all along has been that Shadon and his people are terrorists and that Israel must defend itself.

from them. Immediately after the fall of Assad in December, Israeli forces seized a buffer zone between the two countries that was set up in 1974, and then it also was bombing hundreds of military targets inside Syria. Lately, Israel has also been expanding past that buffer zone further into Syria and continuing its bombing campaign in and around Damascus. But you know, with all of that,

Syria is still saying it wants peace with Israel. Shara has said it publicly many times. And you know, just this past Wednesday, Syrian official spokesperson Ali Rifai spoke to Khan News, Israel's public media network. Now, first of all, just the fact... The Syrian government official spoke to Israeli media is incredible. You know, it would have been unthinkable just six months ago. But if I said that Israel should retreat from Syrian territory and the buffer zone, but that it's ready for peace.

The one we talk about... things that that president trump is promising it's important to put in the context that over the past decade there have been so many big promises that would be groundbreaking that just never materialized but still what he's talking about in this meeting is a really big deal he's talking about full normalization

I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, Trump said he told Shadr in the meeting, I hope you'll join the Abraham Accords when Syria is ready. And according to Trump, Shadr replied, yeah. Now, it's one thing, like you said, to make peace, but to go full-blown normalization with Israel and sign these accords, that would make some serious history. Can you step back and remind us of what the Abraham Accords is?

Sure, so the Abraham Accords are these bilateral agreements normalizing relations between Arab countries and Israel, and they're all mediated. by the United States. So far, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco have all signed the agreements, and Saudi Arabia is close to being the fifth. Under the agreement, they all recognize Israel as a sovereign nation, there are diplomatic ties, flights between the countries, and of course these major business deals.

How likely do you think this is to happen? What needs to happen between now and these big steps, given the long history between Syria and Israel? Yeah, I mean, all of this is really just talk right now. It's remarkable talk, but it's talk. And if it was going to happen, Syria would have conditions first. A big one is for Israel to retreat from Syrian land. They'll also want to discuss Gaza and the possibility of a Palestinian state.

Abdallah al-Ghadawi is a Syrian analyst and journalist. He says, At least the political will for Syria to sign the Abraham Accords is there. So although he says, first, Syria has to prove itself and create the stable economy, then the government can move. forward. There's such a monumental move, like normalizing ties with Israel. So if this is going to happen, it's going to take a long time. I mean, Israel, it seems like would really benefit from this. Is the country saying it's on board?

Well, on peace with Syria, officially there's no comment yet from Israel, but Shara did confirm that there have been indirect mediated talks with Israel recently to discuss security. You know, there are members in the Israeli cabinet who still see Shara as a terrorist, but there are others who are being more pragmatic. You know, they say we're entering this new era of the Middle East, you know, Saudi Arabia possibly normalizing with Israel.

the fall of the Assad regime. And they also lately have been feeling like they've been sidelined by Trump and they want back in. And so many say that this could be a way to do that. Also, peace between the two countries would mean Israel could secure its border against a once sworn enemy and perhaps avoid another attack on its land like on October 7th, 2023. It would also mean that the route of weapons from Iran to Hezbollah through Syria would be cut off.

I mean, that would be quite a different Middle East. Is it fair to say that this meeting between Trump and Shara kick-started all of this? I mean, look, there are all these lucrative deals, weapons sales, and contracts, but for Trump, it's also about his legacy. I spoke to Middle East scholar Thomas Warwick from the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C., and he said,

All of this was very much on Trump's mind. The leaders who made peace between Israel and Egypt won the Nobel Prize. Everyone realizes the Nobel Committee would undoubtedly recognize the leaders who made peace between Israel and Syria. So this is very much in the car. So yes, it's all talk right now, but Trump has long been obsessed with winning this Nobel Prize. He even brought it up last February when he told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the Oval Office that he deserved it.

I feel like I remember during one of his campaigns, crowds chanting Nobel, Nobel during his rallies. It's been something that's long in his mind. He really wants it. That was NPR's Hadil Alshalji in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much. You're welcome. This episode was produced by Avery Keatley. It was edited by Carrie Kahn and Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

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