522: I Consume All of My Dark Secrets

From Relay, this is Connected, episode number 522 recorded October 9, 2024. I am your guest host, Upgrade Draft Challenger Jason Snow, and I'd like to introduce the Ricky Benchman and Upgrade Draft Champion and co-founder Challenge Champion and Champion in his own mind, Mr. Mike Hurley. Look at that. I mean, I like these extra accolades now that we have Jason Ella Jason. It's a treasure to have you on this episode of Connected. And this is a Steven

started episode. So I got to go for a spa response this week by the way, our NetSuite Ecam and Celterios. You nailed it in one. I am the Ricky Benchman and Upgrade Draft Champion and co-founder Relay Co-founder Challenge Champion, Mike Hurley. And I would like to introduce Mr. Fatichi, Hello Federica. Hello, I gotta say I think I like the new guy better than Steven, because he gave us the date, which was a useful bit of information. You know?

Yeah, see this is funny because I started doing the day on Upgrade and Jason protested initially, but I feel like now that maybe maybe Jason has taken the day on as a part of his good for him. I don't know. Well, we now know that there are people who listen to old episodes and they get out of sync and all that. So it's kind of good to remind them that it was October 2024 when

these people said these things. I started doing the date when we had that episode of Upgrade, where we recorded in advance and then Apple announced all of the availability information for the Vision Pro. Oh, right. After we recorded. After we recorded. So then I was like, okay, I want to stop putting the date on these episodes. So I feel like I need to set the mood properly. So Jason feels right at home on connected. Jason, what is your darkest computer related secret?

Darkest computer related secrets. Yeah. Well, what I want to say is that I play all my iPad games with the sound off. No, no, no, no, but for people that would be forget connected pro.co for that. Darkest computer related secret. This is a safe space for not judging you. The problem that Ariko is that I consume all of my dark secrets and release them on the internet for content. I'm not sure there's anything left. I don't. I used to keep things scattered on my desktop,

but my desktop Mac desktop is organized now. Okay. Let me see if I go. What is the most expensive piece of hardware that you've used for a short period of time and is now just on a shelf where you really want him to say Vision Pro. I'm not trying. We're going to talk about that like an older thing and all the thing. Like I will go with mine. I have a M1 iMac that I've just put in a box and put in the corner and like I never get rid of it or anything. That thing should sit

now. I used it for not even a year I think and then now it's just go put away. Yeah. Okay. I've got a lot of a lot of camera related stuff like I bought a whole teleprompter rig that I've literally never used for me to do videos with a script on a teleprompter. I've not used that at all. There's probably a bunch of other stuff like that where there's like I bought mounts for like putting cameras on the wall or the ceiling or whatever and then I look at it and

I said to myself, nah. I've just continued to collect all that garbage. Yeah. There's a lot of that. I have some follow up. The first piece comes from Randall who says regarding the app icons disappearing bug that Mike mentioned. Do you remember my photo's app kept disappearing? Yes. Randall said, I've noticed that if I use Spotlight to add an app to a home screen it disappears from the home screen. However, if I drag it from the app library it remains and this

is exactly the case for me. So now it stays or it's supposed to wait a second. Yeah. Something just don't on me. Okay. But it's a bit of a stretch. Do you happen to have any hidden home screen pages? Oh yeah. I wonder because this is something I noticed that probably change in iOS 18. If like those icons are not actually disappearing they're moving to a page that it's not visible because sometimes when you drag an icon from Spotlight it's like actually moving an

existing icon that's pre-existing on a different page. I can't I kind of would ask you to check your hidden pages and see if anything has changed. It doesn't look like it. I am looking at it now. That needs a bug. But it could be a bug that's related for people who do that. Right? Who have hidden home screen pages. Maybe. Let's just say I have I turned out I have three hidden home screen pages that I didn't know were there. Yeah. That's good. That's great. I mean if they're never visible

if a home screen is there. Does it matter? If they're never visible. Something like that. Peter says, a big grotsy to Federico. Teaching tabs has become my favorite app of the year. I don't have the same needs as Federico. I downloaded the app mostly for the JAPES. But I ended up finding use for it that fits perfectly in my workflow. I am an avid language learner and I use my humble brag and I used to always have the same online dictionaries open in Safari. Now they can all

live in teaching tabs and I can access them quickly from the widget on my home screen. Yes, there you go. Yeah. Change in life. But it's use case. Yeah. Jason, do you have six or seven websites? Do you have a collection of six or seven websites? I used to. I used to have my I'm a I'm a big what do they call it? They they're called the favorites bar in Tavi bar. I don't know. The favorite bar. Favid bar. Favid bar. Favid bar. Favid bar. Favid bar. Favid bar.

Name come from like it's Favid cons. Right. It's never been use Favid Favid bar. It's never been you. Okay. It's me. Favid. We could do it now though. I mean we could start it. Yeah. We could start the Favid bar. Move the Favid bar. Favid bar. Right here. So I'm a big Favid bar user. That's what I was saying. And and this is it used to be full of web pages. But mostly now it's like bookmarklets and stuff. I've got a little like folder full of all the CMSs, you know,

and go to the incomparable or six colors or relay or you know whatever. I've got a big folder full of those that are in the Favid bar. Yeah. You see. Okay. We're using it. All right. Cool. But most of my stuff and then there's pin tabs. I have pin tabs now for six colors. The incomparable and my weather page, my weather station page. But all the stuff that used to be the regular daily visits like the six or seven websites. A couple of years ago I decided to to go

back to RSS. I actually use read kit, which every six months I think surely there's another RSS reader that I would prefer to this and I try them all again and the answer is no. I still really like read kit. And I'm using read kit for RSS as well as for all my newsletters because I use feed bin. So all of my newsletters are going into are getting forwarded to feed bin. And then in the morning when I wake up and I get my breakfast and all that I use read kit to read my six or seven websites and

my six or seven newsletters. So that's what I'm that's what I'm doing now. It's always so fun when like someone mentions the name of an app and my mind is like I've never heard of this app before in my life. No, sure. I heard about it from Mac stories. That's right. We've got a quote here. Federica, the teacher from Mac stories. If you use feed or angla and have been looking for a desktop client, read kit is your best option. Well, that's from many years ago because I'm not sure

if it's the same. That's a quote for the ages. Sure. Sure. Like this is what it's like, Federica, you do a website for a long time and then people are like, oh, you wrote this. I get the occasionally I was like, geez, and you wrote this. Do you have an update on this? And I look at the story and I'm like, I have no memory of this. Yeah, the best one is like when you got a random email from somebody being like, hey, do you still use read kit

and like the last time I reviewed it was like in 2011. Like, well, I haven't heard this name in a long time. No, it's not. I'm to me. I use I use read kit. And again, I get really excited. I haven't tried, you know, some of the latest and greatest, but then I try them and I think, yeah, like the typography better or I like it's got smart folders and I use that sometimes. But you know, mostly whatever reason on and remember I'm reading on an iPad, a 13 inch iPad, right?

Like it's the one that fits the best, even though I the great thing about using feed bin is that I could just go to any reader if I wanted to, but I'm still pretty happy with it. The one an Apple intelligence feature I would like at some point, which they're never going to do. But I would really like the ability to take the articles that are in my feed reader and write new headlines that tell me what the actual article is instead of the bogus web headline that obscures

the meaning of the little click a summary, right? So like an RSS that uses, I mean, hopefully, I mean, who knows, but hopefully, you know, in probably the idea was 19 developers will be able to use that. That would be nice. Good, right? That like instead of the similar to the email, instead of the first few lines of the article, tell me what the article is actually about. Yeah, I'll take that right. Uh, Federico, I'm sorry, but threads knows it has an engagement problem,

uh, and they're taking care of it. So you can say goodbye to all of your likes. Yeah, I mean, Adam, come on. Why? Just when he's cracked it. Why? I was doing so well with my big why? We've seen an increase in engagement bait on threads and we're working to get it under control. Says Adam, Missouri. He got you, man. He knew you would lost your all call. I want it was to make Apple people upset with my heart tics and they're taking those away from me. No more takes.

All right. There was also a note in our document, Steven left that said, check on bet Mike said, no Google picks one nine comes up of a thermometer. So this was something I said when the pixel eight came out because it had a thermometer in it, which could only measure the temperature of objects. And I think what I was saying is like every single year, Google seemed to add a feature that they then remove the next year because it doesn't go anywhere turns out they kept it. Not only it is

the pixel nine have it, you can now measure the heat of a person. So good work, Google. Man, remember Steven? No, those are good. No, it was that. So you can find out if you're HOTOTOGO, by taking good temperature from G O O G L E. You know G O O G O O O G L E. Yeah, if Java runs looking forget that bag. So you can just get Google the call. Super catchy, super catchy. Federico, are you a you a final shaperone? I have no idea what it is. Oh, so she's like, she's like

the hot music act of the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You would like if you don't know how to go like that song, you would like that song. I only know the one song. Okay. Good luck, babe. Yes, yes, that's the one. Hot to go. Hot to go. Hot to go. Hot to go. I'm going to tell the story now really fast, which is there's a running back for the the Cal Bears, named Jaden Ott OTT. And their cal Twitter for people who don't know the Cal G or them, as they're called, of my fellow

Cal fans. Okay, really great. I've been getting a lot of questions, uh, snow told questions about the Cal Twitter account that I don't know about the one getting to. So now you can do it. So that's good. All the Cal burners, they're just like they're doing memes. The meme game is huge and and people are discovering Cal because they're in a new conference and they realize that the the guess what kids who go to Berkeley are smart and funny. Um, but they they not only did they write

parody lyrics for hot to go, but they hired a singer, a real singer. It's not an AI version of the song. The hardest singer named Mickey, I think from Sweden, who they found on some website where you can hire talent, right, to do like freelance work. And they made Ott to go, uh, for Jaden Ott, we got a OTT T.O. Geo. We've got Jaden Ott to go. And they, and then somebody else in the that's right. The Cal Twitter community made a made a music video of ought to go. And that was

like early in the week. And by the time Saturday rolled around and the the premiere college football, a TV show, ESPN college game day came to Berkeley for the very first time. And like 20 years, they've never been to Berkeley. One of the few schools not to have ever been visited. And by the time they got there, the hosts started out by talking about ought to go. Uh, so like super meme game, just so great. And as a Cal fan of longstanding, I was really proud of it. But also as an old person,

I was excited that I actually got the reference to Chapel Row. And so yeah, ought to go. This episode is brought to you by NetSuite. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts. You'll get 10 different answers. Some will say that rates will rise. Some will say that rates will fall. Others might say inflation is up or down or who knows. The only way business

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Thanks to NetSuite for their support of this show and relay. So, wild story. Wild story. It appears multiple now. Because me and Jason spoke about this a little bit on upgrade on Monday. But by the time we're recording on Wednesday, there are now multiple models of the new base level 14 inch MacBook Pro out in the world. There have been a couple of different YouTubers

that have made videos of these. They're both based in Russia and there are reports and screenshots of around 240 inch MacBook Pros that are as of yet unreleased available online. I believe this is real. I've seen some people saying things like the packaging is old. I think the packaging probably maybe isn't 100% complete and there's some weirdness going on here. But I believe that the computers themselves are real and there seems to be some kind of leak

from China to Russia. And this is something that Jason was saying. Well, Apple doesn't sell in Russia. So it makes sense that there might be some kind of flow. But these ones, they've gotten out maybe a little early than they would otherwise. Somebody thought a palette somewhere. Also, they're the low end M4 versions. So they're probably the ones that they made in advance. Because I assume they've got lots of M4s because they have the iPad Pro. But they maybe aren't yet.

All the stories suggest that the M4 Pro versions of all of these products might be available in limited quantity or a little later. So that probably is you start producing the M4 ones earlier. I think this is true when there was a palette or a box or however they just got scooped up by somebody and lost in transit and taken to Russia and resold. Well, I was also wondering if this might be like a result of Apple trying to ship more stuff on boats. Like that maybe if they can

if they could get some stuff shipped out sooner, maybe they would do that. Like I know that's the thing that they've spoken about. Also, how about this? How about the idea that this only is news because it's a new product that hasn't been announced yet. But I wonder how often this happens with existing products where literally since they're not available in Russia, they just make some of them disappear from a warehouse in China and take them to Russia. Not I'm not saying Apple,

I'm saying like crime. The crime is like get me some Apple products that I can resell in Russia because they're not sold there anymore. And then they just happen to snag a product that doesn't exist yet. So this made me think of like so I've been seeing some people. I've been seeing a lot of people say like this is maybe the biggest kind of product leak such or like early release or whatever you might want to call it since the iPhone 4 because things don't really get out. I mean

and of course this is absolutely in no world as monumental as the iPhone 4. But I thought that it might be fun today to think to remember back to the iPhone 4 and Jason I had some some questions I wanted to ask you about specifically of this. But I want to start by giving a timeline of how the iPhone 4 leak went down. So we go back to March of 2010. An engineer at Apple named Gray Powell which is a name just like seared into my memory at this point. Accidentally left a

prototype of their iPhone 4 in a bar in Redwood City, California. The phone was disguised with like a case to look like a 3GS. So they put like a big case on it. In April of 2010 the lost iPhone prototype was found by a bar patron who realized it was something special after seeing features like the new front facing camera. I think also the retina display it had maybe they could tell that out. I don't know. But in April they sold it to Gizmodo for $5,000. On April 19, 2010 Gizmodo

published an article that detailed the iPhone 4's design. Its features they had pictures they had videos. This was obviously the first time that anybody had seen it. It had brand new design right so we've gone from like the rounded phones. This was like glass front and back with the stainless steel in the middle. It's like what a knife on looks like now. Yeah in fact. Yeah pretty much. I'm happy that the this article is still on the Gizmodo website even though it's like

a little janky it is still there and I found that put it in the show notes. On April 20th the next day Apple sent Gizmodo a formal request for the return of the device saying it was stolen property and Gizmodo complied and returned it. Then on the 23rd so an authority body. They had like a strange name. I don't remember now and I didn't look it up but it wasn't like the police. It was like some other police like Silicon Valley police or something at the name like that.

Is there a Silicon Valley police? I'm going to check this because it was weird. It's like this is like the Favvy bar. It's like the Favvy bar of police. So Apple arranged this and sent them sent them to the home of Jason Chen the editor of Gizmodo. They rated his home confiscated his computers and other equipment as part of an investigation into the incident. On May 16th there was

an email exchange between Steve Jobs and Chen that was published. I want to read a quote which I love this for what it is but it's still like you know it's a vibe of a time. Steve Jobs we're just doing what we can try to we're just doing what we can to try and make and preserve the user experience we envision. You can disagree with us but our motives are pure. By the way what have you done that's so great do you just criticize others who are completely

motivated. I love how he just like tons of shock. This was the energy of those Steve Jobs email threads. By the way I've got the Favvy bar of police was the is react. It's a very clever acronym. Rapid enforcement allied computer team. I knew it was like a weird it was like a real thing. React like the like the the coding language. Sure. Yeah. I mean it's a acronym. Silicon Valley

police. If Stephen were here he would know like the space world is full of acronyms where somebody is like we got to create a name for this space probe and they get close and they just come up with a word and then they insert sort of dumb words in to make it work. So react. California Task Force Commission to investigate high tech crimes and Apple had a member on the steering committee of the netting out. So that's how you get your friends Silicon Valley police to go

raid someone. And then in June of 2010 Apple announced the iPhone 4 and then in July of 2011 the next year the invest they this react police investigation concluded about any charges being filed against his motor or the individuals involved in selling the device. This was bananas. I remember my first feeling about the iPhone 4 was that I thought it looked bad. It's like that can't be real. It's ugly. It was my initial thought. But that was just you know I think that's

the way a lot of these leaks go. You see a device and you like that doesn't look good. And then when you see Apple's photos you like oh yeah it does look good. Now I remember thinking that it looked great and very futuristic. I didn't like it. I also remember the exact moment when I saw the Gismodo article appear on Twitter because like at the time 2010 I just started Mac stories. I spent I don't even know how many hours. Like I basically had Twitter always open, always timeline streaming

enabled. I think Tweety for Mac who was around at the time. But yeah I remember this thing popping in and basically me going like what? It was a crazy story. It was like the talk for a couple of weeks and especially after like with all the back and forth with Steve Jobs getting involved. And also like at that. No it wasn't that we would see but it was a late June event because Apple

used to announce iPhones in June. And I remember Steve Jobs sort of joking on stage being like stop me if you if you've seen this before but believe me you haven't really seen it. And like everybody sort of and Jason you were probably in the audience. Yeah. Yeah. Man what a time. So is it not that we have easy then did I get that part wrong? Maybe I just conflated. I think maybe it was. Was it W. W. C. I mean all the dates that we hold is sacred now

we're not like that back. Like they they didn't really have specific iPhone events then right. Like it was I don't think it was we were at that time and June would have been a weird time to announce iPhones. June W. W. C. San Francisco. Yeah. That's that's what it was. For sure. Jason what do you remember of this? I remember very clearly I was it and this is how I can tell that I have a clear memory. This is it's all about locations. So I was at a softball game. One of Jamie softball

games. I remember what park it was like I literally remember that particular park in Teralinda that we took or do and then and I saw this thing on Twitter presumably on my iPhone 3G. Yes. I guess right. Like I mean my process of elimination must have been. And I I remember not believing it and then scrolling through the article and thinking oh no this has got to be real.

This has got to be it because it felt it felt very Johnny I have to me it felt very much like you know he was picking up kind of a Braun Braun shaver kind of design cues with the flat metal sides and all of that and I felt like oh yeah this is this seems like it's a real thing and it was. What was your roll up Maccorder at the time you had an achieve them? I think I was out of her achieve. Yeah. Did you have any or like do you have any kind of thoughts as the edit

or achieve of Maccorder like would you have covered this? Well I would say that our game was not this game right we were not we did not consider ourselves the you know breaker of of rumors and stuff. And so I mean I'm sure I'm sure we had a debate which is do we cover the fact that it

leaked? Yeah. And I'm sure we did that in some form on the web. But like if I had been in you know if I had been at a news source that was really trying to break news which Macworld was not it's kind of bit it would have been a different story I suppose but like I it was not

not really our bag so it was more and that was always the dynamic like back in the in the early days when there was Mac week as well as Macworld Mac user Mac week was the one that did that stuff right they were the ones who broke news about unannounced products and so they would have been the ones to do it and the Macworld Mac user were sort of like well we're monthly and we're kind of like at a little we're not trying to break news we don't fancy ourselves a newspaper we're a different

kind of thing. And so I'd say culturally that was still going on even when I was there. I'm convinced a Federico the TGA 2010 would have given it given the opportunity would have wanted to break this news. You were so early right? I will disagree because I think because I know because I had been burned before I think I've told this story on the show before in my first year of Mac stories I was really basically throwing everything at the wall and seeing what was

sticking right and one of the things that I was doing was like completely disregarding the NDA regarding betas Mac was 10 betas and screenshots and so I used to have articles with like DIT and mind you like this was very different right there were no public betas it was a developer beta it was an NDA screen that popped up but like I didn't care I was posting screenshots you know having roundups whatever until one day I noticed well why are the images on this article

about the latest to Mac OS 10 beta working anymore. And so basically my hosting provider had gotten an email like a take down request from Apple. I got myself a nice letter from Apple's lawyers at the time and that scared me for life. So yeah they they they lawyers the screenshots out of me

so that's why we don't do those kinds of reporting anymore. It was enough funny to remember that they used to do that right that like the the beta was in the lead because then everybody will post screenshots and be like somebody sent these to us and like yeah okay whatever you say. Yeah I got to the point where I mean as it usually happens with this where somebody who had the ability to post it and not get a take down for whatever reason posted them and then somebody else did

it. Yeah I think one of the challenges about what Gizmodo did was they I mean they were really argumentative about it I think because they were scared but they were also kind of like trying to find a way to say no no we're going to do this but like you could have the thing and take

pictures of it and write a report of it without one buying stolen property and two refusing to give it back to Apple right they they they they went down a whole bunch of paths here that were kind of a lot but Apple to this day says like oh well you know the public beta is coming out and we're going

to give you a briefing and we're going to talk about what's in the public beta and keep in mind everybody's already seen it at WWC but they're like you know we want this to go out when the public beta goes out and like it's weird because it doesn't really need to be that way but there is some

aspect of it that is yeah but if you're playing ball with Apple and they're going to give you a briefing and they're going to you know they're going to talk to you about it and they're going to answer your questions and they'd rather those stories be embargoed until the public beta comes out

and you say all right like okay all right in that case I'll do it but that's all that's left right I mean they know they they used to stop us from live blogging events they they literally would say no live blogging and at that point at some point it just got so it was so porous that there's no

way that they could do that anymore and they gave up that's how it always ends up happening is that they try to hold back the the the flood but the dam bursts like they can't hold it back and then they finally reluctantly give up and you like you know the reason that Steve Jobs yelled at

everybody to turn off their hot spots that one time yes yeah is because Apple in an attempt to clamp down on information spreading about their event which is why why why would you say no no we don't want anybody to hear about this until later they did not provide Wi-Fi at events even at events

where there was Wi-Fi available they would just turn it off they did not want people to have access to Wi-Fi at the event and so everybody bought hot spots and then they all clogged the space right in front of the stage where Steve was trying to do a demo and he yelled at everybody to turn

them off which by the way I sat on mine but I did not turn it off because you're not the boss of me you're gonna tell me what to do but I will say the next event and every subsequent Apple event forever there was good Wi-Fi because they realized that that was their fault that had happened that

way but isn't that bizarre they're like no no no oh you and your audience want to report live about all of Apple's product announcements please do not what how dare you what how did I don't know so anyway this is not quite that but it's a it's a very similar kind of thing I think gizmodo I don't

know I think I think that they did good reporting and then they were also jerks about it I think both of those things are true I think that they I think they got real defensive and I think they wanted to honestly that culture of that a gizmodo is very very tabloidly organization in general its

whole culture and so I think they realized it was great publicity for them to be in a spat with Apple I think that and and even if the secret task force was called like I feel like individuals in that organization were probably terrified but I think the organization is the whole love the

fact that they were getting all this press I mean can't get a bit of scoop in that right like you can't if you if you are in the game of we will report rumors right like getting the I've been coming from an Apple employee right like it's it's it's just found in a bar so you don't even

have to be accused of like ruining somebody's life or or inducing them into breaking their NDA it's like literally it just got left out because I think the story goes there were a few publications that got the emails and like whist and photos but gizmodo over the ones that were willing to pay

so they did and then yeah I'm happy they did because then we have this great thing to remember sure and obviously you know so confetti police this episode is brought to you by ecam ecam live is the leading video production and live streaming studio built for the Mac ecam does all aspects of

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connected with the code connected go down now and check it out thanks to ecam for their support of this show and relay federico you had a desire to talk about peripherals yeah because I feel like we only talk about the upcoming max if there's going to be or not an October event you know this new

MacBook Pros some of which you can buy in Russia apparently if you know where to look the Mac mini I mean you can you can literally buy them in Russia the Mac mini but I want to talk about the accessories I want to talk about the peripherals because I feel like it's now or never right we were

expecting some new peripherals at the iPad event they didn't they did not come we were expecting them probably a WDC that wasn't the case they didn't show up in September well now there's probably going to be a whole new lineup of max what better time to close out the year than to finally

introduce new peripherals now and so I thought let's talk about these accessories and let's share some of our wishes in terms of things we want to see in this new peripherals and I will go first by mentioning something more broadly speaking that I would love to see here it's been how many years

since the magic keyboard was introduced we touch ID three four years the quick answers too many too many let me find the final still lightning based obviously so obviously USB-C is the the simplest answer like Apple should do USB-C charging for all these devices but what I would like to see

personally is AirPods like switching of these peripherals between multiple devices I think it's wild that if you buy a magic keyboard now you can just use it with one computer at a time you either pair it with your Mac or you pair it with your iPad some people also pair keyboards with

their iPhones some people are into that it's 2021 by the way just the answer to 2021 so three years I would love to see just like Apple Apple doesn't tell me look you want to listen to music on multiple devices go by five pairs of AirPods right they say just buy a single set of AirPods and

switch between as many devices as you want I want to buy an Apple keyboard and I want to buy an Apple an Apple trackpad and I want to switch between devices just like I do with AirPods that's my big overall wish for these new peripherals but this is you're not asking for is universal control right

well well I guess you can go about this in two ways right I would say I'm asking for universal control on the iPads magic keyboard in the sense that if I'm using the iPad and we're going to talk about the vision pro later but like I think it's kind of silly that the magic keyboard on my

iPad cannot control vision OS but that's a different conversation I think the simplest solution for me would be getting your keyboard getting your trackpad now you can switch from control center just like you can with AirPods and be interesting to see how they could walk that out right like how

would you you know like if you hit the key where does it go but there is an element of they made it work with iPods right like you there are ways to make that work I guess I would like it I know I would like it yeah but and it's it's just so dumb right now like I have this where I

have a touch ID an orange touch ID keyboard that I bought on on eBay because I wanted an orange and I use that sometimes at my desk in the back of the house with the laptop attached to an external keyboard or external display but I also use it with the vision pro and it's so dumb like when I

get in the vision pro and I want to use that thing and like it doesn't want to see it it doesn't want to connect to it sometimes I have to unparad and then repair it and I don't even necessarily need I mean it would be nice if it really intelligently sensed that I was close to the vision pro and it

was in use and that that was probably the device that I want to connect to but there are so much room for improvement in these things when you take them from device to device and they just don't want to let go of the other peripheral and I wish that was a lot a lot smoother than it is now

they would never add physical switching would they like a little one that you would press like I mean that that would give us what we wanted but they would never do that right that you set a little preset I could see them hiding it under the globe key somewhere you know globe f8 to toggle

but I don't know they could they did add an over engineered button to the iPhone so I mean what's the harming doing the same on all camera control I think camera controls getting too much I think it's I think I mean I have you use the thing yeah I use it to zoom

let's do keyboard control keyboard control I feel bad for camera control you know um um colors yeah let me buy let me buy let me buy an orange keyboard let me buy let me buy a pink keyboard can you still only yes you can't buy them separate still I use

eBay that's why I have an orange keyboard for me Bay is that I use eBay if you use the store it's only silver so you have to find somebody who bought an iMac and doesn't want their keyboard and puts it on eBay that's what you have to do yeah so dumb I was just today I was um

um I was talking to a friend I was at silver school and in the office they have a they have a MacBook Pro docked at a desk connected to a studio display which I sold them by the way that's my old Apple studio display and the person using the computer uses a magic mouse and and he's really

he's really into the magic mouse which I don't understand because the thing is so small gives me instant wrist pain um but looking at it when it was charging he reminded me just how silly that thing is when you need to charge it so let alone I mean the fact that he also needs

USB-C please give it a new charging placement um i'll put mags on the mouse put mags safe on the mouse mag mouse call it whatever yes uh or at the very least put the port on the front and allow people let people use the mouse while it is charging instead of you know you got to put it on the side

and it's kind of silly just let me use it when it's plugged in or mags safe like Mike said there's a lot they could do with that mouse though like there there's a there's a lot a lot they could do to if they actually want to make a mouse but although I would

just say honestly they shouldn't make a mouse anymore like Apple should just get rid of the magic mouse and just make a trackpad like and anybody that wants a mouse just go to logic tech or like that's a take no but the Apple does not need to make a mouse like they clearly don't want to

right but like they do and they are so in on track pads now like they do so much great stuff with their track pads just let the mouse go and make you know let's just like make partnerships right like do the thing where you get logic tech to make a mouse for you back in to make a mouse for you

and just like stop making a mouse because back in is gonna back in is gonna make a mouse and it's gonna charge it's gonna call it boost charge probe mouse you know they're gonna do it and let them you know because Apple Apple you've lost your mouse making code like you're not allowed anymore

you've made a bunch of bad mice this current one is the terrible you've left it this way forever let's just get rid of it I will just throw out if mentioning track pads I want them to put touch idea in the track pad I still want that that would be like I put that like under the track pad

just put a little put it in the corner like a little button right like like you know just have it look like the little button or a little spot I mean it's all glass right so you can just put the sensor like met flush with the with the glass of the track pad like top right hand corner or something

yeah no I would love I would love that as somebody you know Mike you and I are both thinking I'm never gonna use an Apple keyboard but I really want the touch ID button and I do use the magic track pad so it would be really nice if they if they did the magic track pad there I don't

think they're ever gonna get rid of the magic mouse by the way why for a couple reasons one is uh because they bundle it with the iMac and there are people who like a mouse and also I think it's cheaper than the track pad and they can't not unless they ship the iMac with literally no input

devices and I don't think they want to do that they're gonna want to ship it with input devices and I honestly think it the mouse is cheaper so it's better to ship it with the mouse oh yeah man you have to pay 50 dollars more to get the magic track pad yeah it's yeah it's all a cheaper

than well then then if you're gonna force this mouse people make it better make it better make it better I agree yeah I agree I you haven't mentioned um patently apple wrote a story like a million years ago about a patent to use the keyboard uh the surface of keys as a track pad um and I thought

that would be amazing right the idea that you have that you know relatively flat apple keyboard and then you just move your fingers across it and it moves the cursor moves the cursor uh uh didn't we see like a couple of months ago a Kickstarter from a yes Chinese company that wants to do

this yes well they better check with apples patent and nobody nobody kind of believed them I'm like well let me rephrase none of us backed it and that's despite the fact that we tend you know the the three of us and also OTJ like we tend to back a lot of kick starters despite our

better judgment um but we didn't back that one uh it seems I'm this I found it um okay the Mo Kibo Folio did it go anywhere are they making it they we they have as of March 28th 2023 they had they looked like let me see we're all good updates the Mo Kibo Folio

they've got everybody's address. They're shipping out that says they're shipping out apparently I'm gonna check the comments there are 28 hundred comments which is not a good sign um yeah lots of people who've never received their keyboard here in the comments

I don't know if anybody ever has received them uh because the com it's just full of people uh not receiving anything yes it's just the way to go so even though they're saying they're shipping uh it doesn't it doesn't seem like they may yet be apples got the patent I mean I

this goes with when we're talking about Vision Pro and finding all those like plastic cases that let you stick a a track pad and a and a keyboard together um which is a thing they could do they could sell a combo right which is just like the keyboard and the track and a magic track pad in one

unit which maybe they could even get the price down on what they're doing and put that in with the iMac and get rid of the mouse I don't know but it's a possibility and then that would be great for Vision Pro too because you'd have a pointer attached to the keyboard um so you know

stuff like that is good but the track pad surface which is a wild idea but the idea that you could use it as a fairly basic pointer just by skimming your fingers across maybe multi-fingers across the keyboard and use it as a track pad it's an interesting idea I would also throw out as my

my keyboard wishes programmable key caps I'm not necessarily saying the stream deck but like I know that people have tried you could have like a keys that have a color under them that is changeable or you could have yeah you could have a screen under the top level it's what the what the

touch bar should have been uh is something like that where it's physical keys but you can customize them and I know that they've also done people have done uh e-ink key caps where the key caps label is changeable and I don't know I think that would be kind of fun because I love my stream deck

but I like I think there's value in having a a physical key that can be labeled whatever you want it to be I don't think Apple will do it but we're getting wild here I'll throw it out there I've got to get some important updates the the Mo Kibo fusion keyboard they have a website

they're shipping them that I'm finding videos on YouTube like it's the thing that exists they have a new version apparently I don't understand what's happening over there on Kickstarter about link Apple should check this out Apple should check this out because no federico should check

this out is free no no no no you can just buy it on their website now federico I'm gonna buy one and Apple is gonna sue me for whatever you can buy it you can put it on your fafibar put Mo Kibo on your fafibar you put Mo Kibo on the fafibar it looks it looks like it you it works and everyone's

happy about it you know is Mo Kibo does it stand for more keyboard is that is that the pun they're going for Mo Kibo Mo problems I think that's out that goes uh I wanted to ask are there any other peripherals that we think Apple should make outside of this and I will I will I will begin the

bidding with a webcam with face ID in it I can external one they make a webcam so forget about the bad webcams with a face ID so 4k good with center stage high quality webcam that also has face ID sensors so if you really care you can put it at the top of your display and get face ID

on an external display yes yes yes let me see I still kind of wish like the thing that you guys have done like taking apart a magic keyboard and making a stand alone touch ID button out of it I still think that should be an actual product from Apple even though they're never gonna do it

like let me let me buy the touch ID button you know like let me let me let me place it anywhere I don't know it could double it could double as a home key accessory of sorts like it authenticates into your mac and it's also something that you can click if you want to do something I don't know

it could be fun the problem is I would love Apple to sort of take the Nintendo approach not to go back to the pro show but like Nintendo is a giant company and they're still weird enough to make this crazy accessories like an alarm clock um the problem I think is that Apple is too big and

too self conscious to get weird in that sort of sense like I don't know I will have Apple to say we made you a button now you can buy the touch ID button we made you a weird keyboard that you can use with the iPad and the Vision Pro like this sort of like cheaper strange unexpected Apple

accessories and the problem is that I think they are too self aware and too big and too scared to concern their investors to come up with these products because every single I feel like they think that that every single product they make has to be hit has to be world changing whereas I would like him to do the weird niche accessories and peripherals and they're not making them that's a problem I do hope that their home products might they know these room and home products I really hope

that yeah especially the robot one that they're working on the one with the big robot um I think that's gonna be as we were established Jason loves the fact that's a robot robot yeah it's not your robot arm Mike it's a robot it's literally a robot it's a robot it's a robot glim robot glim

it stands it stands no no it's a robot it stands on your countertop and wherever you are it walks over there steps on your plates steps kicks your glasses off and just follows you around your your kitchen playing music you or maybe an Apple TV show on its screen I was very excited a couple

of days ago when I don't know the echo was allotting everyone in the household that a package was coming and I went and just pressed a button to get rid of it because it's also like my wife's birthday is coming up and I'm ordering decorations and I don't want her to see what they are and I know

you can change settings on the echo but whatever and when I was doing it did you know turn to me and she said when are we gonna get an apple one of those and I was like yes so like she's ready now like she's also had enough of the Amazon Echo and the many ways in which it tries to sell you things

so now Apple whenever you're ready I will definitely be buying at least one of these screened things because I want it big time please just let me get rid of this echo the Google one is better because I dumped my echo and got a Google one the problem with it's better in that it

is not as annoying in terms of trying to sell you things because all Amazon wants to do is you're a good a customer in good standing with Amazon you buy a lot of stuff from Amazon it doesn't matter it's going to by the way I want to sell you more things and it just won't stop and even if you turn

all the settings on what happens is they push new settings that are on by default and so you're it's you're constantly fighting a battle with Amazon so I got a Google nest home mini whatever I don't know it's got lots of different names that they keep attaching to their products because

Google doesn't know what it's doing and it's it's a lot less annoying the screen saver with the photos that are in a Google photos album is really nice there's a lot of things about it that I like the bad thing is that the hardware is all old and slow and bad like even I when I bought mine it had

been out for more than a year and I read the vera jarticle and they said this is a great product except it's too slow and they were right and they have an update of it since then there's a big one and a little one but they're both incredibly slow and so yeah I am I am better with it than I

was with the Amazon one because it's not actively annoying although one of my favorite features of it is it's got a sensor in it a camera and like a sensor and when it we use it for alarms in the kitchen right it's like set it set an alarm a chicken alarm you know say a chicken timer for 20

chickens right along the chickens yeah okay Federico like this if you do pasta you say set a set a pasta timer for for 11 minutes yeah it goes do do do do do do it does a little Italian thingy and when the chicken it goes I love the coach for the appropriation but it's great you know

yeah yeah it's a time of a little problem it's a me so it plays a little sound effects but when it's done it starts making this chime and you got to turn the chime off and there's there's three ways you can turn the chime off you can reach over to the thing with your dirty hands and touch

the X and it stops it or you can say to Google stop it and it'll stop it usually if it hears you but the promise of this thing is the sensor you can take your hand and it's like talk to the hand and you can just wave your hand in the air in the direction of the Google home thing and it'll stop

and uh it's it works sometimes but it means that you're standing in your kitchen like an idiot waving at a little box and it makes me feel stupid every time but when it works the first time I feel like a magician it's just that it doesn't usually work the first time anyway please yes

I would love an apple thing here instead I would really appreciate that I'm sure apple will not have hilarious Italian sounds when you're making pasta it's sort of in a warmo for the kitchen kitchen a warmo speaking of like it isn't really speaking of anything but for the guy so I tried

to do it okay okay so I'm sorry that you got a nomad watch band right and I was intrigued about what you think of this I think I mentioned this on the show before that like I've always been hesitant of third party watch bands so like they're not gonna attach attach right and so like I

wanted to know what you thought no you can you can ignore those concerns it attaches perfectly it looks like a regular apple watch band this is my second nomad watch band I had one of their liked gray kind of similar rugged sport one that I got a couple of years ago and to match my

iPhone 16 plus I got the uh what do I call it blow or pull um it's like a blue purple ish one in collaboration with the verge um and it's it's perfect I'm using it with the apple watch ultra and uh yeah it matches quite nicely the ultra marina of the 16 plus but no it just uh

it's got the same logs it's got the same attachment of of a regular watch band you can get different sizes from the nomad website really fast shipping I got it like three days um yeah you should uh you should like there are questionable options on amazon from like these no brand companies

um I remember one time my mom got one from amazon that promised to be an equivalent to apples 50 euro silicon band but it cost like five euros and so obviously my mom was intrigued and it gave her a rash immediately so probably try and buy from big brands yeah um like nomad instead of like the five

euro band on amazon but otherwise I mean it's even the even the chinese knockoff then my mom got it did attach correctly um but obviously the material was a bit uh problematic so uh I love the verge I read the verge every day I listen to the verge cast I'm a big verge fan there is something

funny though to me about having the verge logo on the watch band like the other way every day like I'm not sure exactly why I find that to be like a funny thing but that is like a funny thing to me oh there is a verge logo I didn't even know it's on the inside though which is good at least

this is gonna be great get get ready for it hold on to your hats it's teach you bands and it's the bands of six or seven website logos oh my god oh my god yeah the verge will be there obviously but like there'll be others too teach you bands oh my god no man call us no man yeah like

seriously don't know mad call us I would I would do it I would do a watch band connected or a teach you tab what a teachy teachy band teachy band uh yeah then I don't know why it's funny but it is just funny to me I don't know why but like there's just there's a Federico where's a watch

band that has the verge logo on it it's it's nice and hidden man look I I love the verge okay it's a good website it's a great website it's one it would be one of my sixes seven I figured it was yeah many times I disagree with them but like I appreciate I appreciate this green with someone

rather than ignoring someone you know that's much worse so what do you mean well are you being spicy right now I'm not sure do I want to know yes I was yes I was I was I prefer to read and disagree with the website you then to not read the website at all okay I like that that's good um

I think I might be over my desire for the app watch series 10 oh good for you I agree I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna wait I I still uh we've yet to me ended up going to a store because she she wants an upgrade and and and her watch the

couple of years old now and so I think yeah she loves her upper watch so I'm very happy to upgrade it for her and I still love the look of the the series 10 but the I I don't want to lose my battery life yet I'm struggling I'm struggling who knows I might go into the store try it on an S the

end of me but I don't know what I'm really torn on it because I still stand by the idea that like like like what is going to happen to the app watch ultra like how often is it going to get updated how behind is it going to be like but maybe I just need to wait for it to happen you'll worry

of exactly you're worried about it when it happens when I need to worry about it rather than trying to make myself worry about it now yeah you don't you don't have a problem now no I don't I don't think the ultra yeah yeah I think you might be right I think you might right I did see though

I know that you were having battery life concerns Federico did you see that 0.1 had reference to a battery drain oh no I didn't thank you okay so yeah watch OS was it 11.0.1 it references in the release notes that like there was a battery drain issue on the on 18 oh okay I'm make sure

have I updated okay it's up to date oh yeah I guess I did it a couple of nights ago yeah cool awesome well my my ultra one is a 90% which is not great I mean it's it's lost 10% battery health yeah yeah so it's it's getting worse but it's still so much better than this

year you stand you know so I keep it and I I really hope that I can keep it at least until next September like for another year I'm sure and see what and see what happens I mean the battery's so good even like a 50% battery life on this watch you're probably right regular one you're probably

right yeah Jason you enjoy in your series 10 I am it's great I I had a seven right I had a seven black titanium and now I have a 10 black aluminum little shiny black and love in the bigger screen nice to have a refreshed battery after three years to um speaker is interesting but I found a

weird quirk and this might be a bug I wonder if it's going to be fixed in the next version but um um you know so okay apple wants you to sleep with your apple watch right and I have resisted I have I have resisted I use it I had the little thing the Federico wrote about that time it's the little thing that looks like a snow globe and you slide your apple watch and like magnifies it um and charges it do you remember that Federico I remember I knew you have so many things that you

never remember that you wrote out no no I think it was an apple watch accessory that was like plastic clear plastic but curved night was and there was a yeah that's it and so you put the charging puck in the back and you slide it in and then it charges overnight but it also kind of magnifies

the the night stand oh my god that was years ago yeah I bought one I bought one I've been using it but two new two things one very sad news the new apple watch is uh has changed enough in shape that it doesn't charge reliably but two apple wants me to sleep with my watch on which I've

never done because they've got vitals and they got sleep apnea detection it's like okay apple so I'm committed to doing it I moved the night watch away uh I just have a regular charging puck now and I try to do it when I'm in the shower or when it yells at me in the middle of the day that

it's about to run out of battery um and I I'm I'm trying to do that so it's it's just I don't know it's it's it's weird to do it that way um but since I'm doing that and I I have the sleep feature sleep really really really wants you to set a wake up time right they want you to have a wake up

time yeah with an oh and it has an alarm and I've never done that I get the tap I've always got in the tap at night that says like you should wind down and go to bed and it's like that's fine I don't mind it's a little naggy but I kind of don't mind it but I never use the alarm in the

morning because first off I work at home and Lauren's gotten the alarm set but I don't need to get up at the same time and all that but I'm I'm embracing the at sleep the apple way the apple sleep lifestyle right so this is what I did is I set it for seven a.m. um and I've worn my watch

where alarms have gone off before and they tap your wrist and it's kind of subtle and when I found with a series 10 on the the.0 release of watch OS when that alarm goes off there's a setting this says don't make noise like my phone my watch is in silent mode I never want my apple watch to make

noise that alarm goes off and it plays music it taps my wrist but it also plays music and I don't want I don't want that I do not want noise it is possible to have apples system have no alarm because I have this I know I know I just I feel like there's there's there's some advantage to

having it know when you wake up in terms of the sleep tracking features and all of that I think there's an advantage to it I have I just thought I would try this but it's like a feature of the apple watch speaker that I do not want I've I've occasionally been somewhere where I didn't have

headphones and I'm like in the kitchen waiting for the toast to pop or something and I I can listen to a podcast on my apple watch that's fun that's interesting but I really don't want that alarm making any noise and even though there's a setting to say don't make noise it still plays it's a

little thing to wake me up in the morning I don't I don't want that I just want the tap on the wrist that's all nobody wants that this episode is brought to you by South Trio's the shoot them up game with a tiny ship big weapons waves of foes power ups and obstacles South Trio has no ads no

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just go click the link in the show notes or thanks to South Trio's for their support of this show and relay so finishing up today Federico put a note in the show notes that said vision pro check-in so I'm going to assume that you have somewhere you want to begin with this Federico

yeah so first of all I want to begin by saying that I've been recording the entire episode while wearing my vision pro okay yeah okay what yeah yeah yeah you don't even sound like your nose is blocked so that's good no no no I mean so I've been using I'm using the iPad connected to the

mix pre as I've been recording all my shows for the past two months and I've been using screen mirroring to see the iPads displaying front of me so I turned down the brightness of the iPads physical display and I screen mirrored to the vision pro and I made the iPad screen giant in front of me

and then I also opened a bunch of a vision of us windows like I got this cordon compatibility mode on the left I got messages on the right so far on the top and so that was my teeny tiny surprise for today I guess in general I think over the past couple of weeks I've been thinking about the

vision pro a lot because this thing has been sitting in a drawer for like three months I basically stopped paying attention in May when I got the new iPad pros and then WDC happened and then it was the summer and I was going to the beach and when I was not at the beach I needed to work on the iOS

and iPad or the SAT review and so I didn't really have time or the energy to think about the vision pro but I still felt bad about the fact that it was sitting unused because I I still do think that there's so much potential in this platform and I mean every time I use it here's my thing every

time I use it it brings me a little bit of joy like right now for example the fact that I'm recording with all these windows around me it is kind of wild at the same time it really bumps me out that the vision OS app store is a little bit of a little bit of a ghost town yeah and it also bumps me out

that while Apple has been working on this new immersive video efforts they'll be working out to expanding the list of compatible countries that's the peripheral story which is why I also brought that topic to the show today like the accessory story is just not there and I'm really

conflicted I guess it's what I'm trying to say but over the past couple of weeks I think I've come to a realization which is why I also posted on threads that I think I've accepted that right now the vision pro cannot be what I was hoping it would be last year it cannot be my full-time computer

it cannot be what replaces my iPad and I think I'm fine with the thought for now of the vision pro being what I use at night most of the time to watch movies catch up on my youtube queue read some articles in good links basically watching Apple TV plus content that sort of stuff being my media

consumption device and occasionally during the day when I feel like it I can scream mirror my iPad which is the you know the the only option as an iPad user that I have you know in absence of iPad virtual display I can scream mirror which is not as good as Mac virtual display but it's good

enough and I think I've accepted this reality that I'm fine with using the vision pro as a media device with an expensive media device like a really expensive media device but it does bring me that joy it does feel awesome when I use it that said I would use it a whole lot more if the iPad was a

first class citizen in vision OS like mac OS is can you can you explain to me how the screen mirroring well it's airplane it's airplane you're basically airplane to the vision pro just like you can airplane the iPad screen to an Apple TV or something you can airplane to a vision pro which means

you do get a bit of latency like right now for example I can physically look in front of me and I can see like half a second of a delay but like you're touching the screen though right like of your no I'm using the magic keyboard the iPad is in the magic yeah yeah yeah but when I scroll I can see

that there's a tiny bit of delay between what I see on the iPads physical screen and what I see on the mirrored window in vision OS but it's good enough you know I I have written articles this way I have gotten some work done this way and it does feel nice to surround yourself with windows and

doing the things that vision OS does but still at the same time uncomflicted because the third party app story just isn't there anymore yeah it kind of dried up after the initial rollout of developers really wanted to be on board on the vision OS app store it's still not official available in

Italy which means I still got a hold on to that fake us Apple ID that I've been trying to move away from but I got to keep using it because the vision pro is not in Italy and so yeah I kind of wanted to check in with you guys and see how you're using it I have found a few uses for it I agree with

you that the the lack of the native apps is brutal and iPad apps are a fallback but like I'll give you an example I use one writer to write on my iPad pro really nice customizable text editor I've got a wired into shortcuts to post my stories directives into my CMS and like I really I've

settled on one writer it's good it's my text editor it's you know BB edit on the Mac one writer on the iPad and I can run one writer on vision OS but it's an iPad compatibility mode and it's just not as good and so I end up using runestone by style Simon storming which is good and the native

app it isn't as full featured as one writer is at all but it doesn't matter because it's a native vision OS app and that means it's better it's just it's clearer the text is crisper you can resize it and it's not pretending that it's inside and you know an iPad shape and so that it is frustrating

that there aren't more of those but I also don't blame developers for it because I know that there's nobody out there using vision pro right now and so you either have to sort of do it because it's a challenge and interesting to you personally but not for financial gain or because you think that

maybe this will lead you somewhere eventually with Apple which makes me come back to the fact that I feel like Apple needs to show more commitment to this platform yeah it's really committed to it and they can do that in a bunch of different ways the content yes the immersive content's amazing

and even 3d movies are great I don't watch them a lot because I usually want to watch that stuff with Lauren and so you know we're gonna watch it on TV on our couch but occasionally I'll do it and when I was in Memphis I watched a college football game on a gigantic screen in my hotel room

and that was kind of fun to do but like so they I know that their their short film is coming out the first scripted short film is coming out tomorrow tomorrow so that's that's that's something but it's been really slow going and a lot of things that we think might be great potential for this thing there's no content for it they've been very limited with what they do there and then on a developer side that's what I feel too is like Apple needs to give developers reasons to build these apps and

I know that they're doing something there's something in the show notes here yeah there's a piece about how Apple did a presentation at Apple Park for vision pro developers it's like that's good more of that more I mean maybe like identify key developers who are laggards on the platform and come to them and say how can we help can we get you hardware like I would literally identify the top 50 iOS developers in categories that matter that would be good on vision OS I would just target them

and get them hardware and say please work with us on this right like and maybe they're doing it and there's no result but I don't know it sounds like they're not doing as much as they should be doing to get the developers to make apps for this thing yeah that that event uh developer Todd

heberline posted a little blog post about it was some photos they had what was essentially like a one day WDC kind of thing real presenters on stage actually doing presenting doing code like it it looked kind of nice really uh to be honest um and they're also doing a bunch more events

around the world and I think that to this level um uh I'm not sure if this one was was like people were invited or you could apply to go um but that kind of this is the you're right this is the kind of stuff they need to do saying about it like the big developers I don't know if you saw

Juneau the youtube app yeah yeah that's because youtube are making an app coming out next year that's why would Apple just let it go and take youtube toward forward it's because Apple and in youtube clearly already have a deal to bring to youtube app and and to vision OS so they're like

just let's just let this thing go away but it's a shame because that's one of the best vision OS apps that exist yeah yeah still exists so you can't be out there anymore I've still got it anymore yeah but if you don't have it you can't get it now but that's what I'm doing that because they're

finally getting Google to release some apps which is which is good I mean this is this is the thing it's look when um and you guys talked about this and thank you for referencing the upgrade conversation about it too the meta Orion and uh not even an announcement showing off the the prototype

which shifted the game and I think it was really smart from that and we all we all talked about that last time um the thing like Apple doesn't have to Apple doesn't have to do everything right now but it needs to show commitment to where it's going it doesn't need to reveal that it's also dreaming

of an AR future I think the reason the path through is is such a focus on vision pro is because it really is just kind of like an AR glasses developer unit it really is just kind of like we want you to think in terms of augmented reality not virtual reality for it like that's all that's all fine

but they need to show that commitment they need to to do they can't do what meta is done but I I just I need to see signs of life for them that this really does matter and I know that it's not their language to do prototypes so whatever Apple's love language is they need to speak it about

the vision pro so that everybody and make and and make an effort even if you know they've said Tim Cook has said AR is more interesting than VR and that the you know it's a place of interest in all of those things but like I'd really like them to to say look this is a long-term commitment for us

it doesn't matter that this that the vision current vision pro is is just the start of the process they've said some of that but like their actions speak louder than those words and I just want to see them say there are lots of reasons that people should be developing software for this because this

is going someplace and and the the lack of shipping content for the platform is one of those things that really gives me pause right because then the the conversation is not oh the vision pro isn't a hit because it was never going to be a hit the conversation is does Apple care about the vision pro

and that's that's a big problem so when I saw this and then notes I was thinking a bit about the vision pro and like one of it you know yesterday I had a call few friends Jason was on the call we sometimes hang out in vision pro just so we can use this special persona which I think is the

absolute very best feature of the vision pro and the thing that I was struck by is that like the vision pro is like the coolest computer that I um and by a mile like using that thing is unbelievable like still yesterday I put it on and I'm using it and I put it around some maps and

like this is absolutely the future of computing and I already own it I just wish I have more to do on it and like I can and have like find things to do right so like I want to use it more I'll find things to do kind of like what Federico is doing right now right like I will find something to do

because I want to use this but like Apple has to meet us a little closer right and and I I do believe they will like I do not believe that they would just release this thing and then they'll allow it to go nowhere but they're they're just being slow with it and I think that's okay

but I mean if you see next year I want to see a vision of s3 and it has a bunch of cool stuff in it right like I want them to keep pushing it like I'm not of the camp of which there are a lot of people who are just saying it's dead like I don't believe that to be the case at all I just think that there are a lot of factors for this device that limit it like the price the the availability of it like the interest of developers it is limited but doesn't have to be that way forever yeah yeah

and I feel like because of these problems now it's the time to be humble reach out of developers like Jason said expand the options in terms of accessories expand the options in terms of countries like yeah taking your foot off the gas now is the mistake that Apple can make with this platform and so

yeah I want to mention three things that I'm enjoying with the vision pro one is an accessory that I think you guys may like I've already ordered it because I'm sorry in the notes and I ordered it already so this is the this is the Spigen head strap it's basically a top strap for

the vision pro that allows you to have the same setup that we had last year with the private demo a WDC yeah you're using the solo knit band in the back but you have a head strap at the top and I've been using the solo top setup forever the solo top is this system to have two solo

knit bands yeah solo knit straps whatever they're called but this one is much less bulky and much more comfortable because you only need to worry about adjusting the band with the with dial that sits in the back of your head the one at the top you can just set to want to to a position that

feels right to you and you don't need to worry about it anymore it's perfect I got it from amazon yeah I have high hopes for this because the solo top did not work for me like it didn't feel very comfortable and also the my eye tracking wasn't as good I think you're gonna like this

okay I think you're gonna like this um I also want to mention I've still been alternating between using the vision pro as a as a VR headset with the with the light seal versus using it with an open system yeah I read about the open system a few months ago if you're interested the company

that made the air cover they're called infinity one 3d they make a bunch of accessories for for various VR headsets the air cover lets you use the vision pro as almost an AR headset without the light seal it's very comfortable quite cheap they have a version to that it's very similar

to the to the original one maybe the printing material is a little bit nicer over on the version to but this is the one that I've been using sort of switching back and forth between this one and the light seal for when I really want to be immersed there's something about this like we

never see the pictures of this where I'm just like convinced that you're just like burning your eyes I don't know why like whenever I see pictures of it I'm like oh god it looks so bad and I gotta say it does look bad but I gotta say that it does help a lot in terms of like

getting rid of the tunnel effect when you're looking into the vision pro right with the light seal um vision OS 2 is much better than vision s1 at not bothering you so much with alerts like oh you should you know you're too close to this place like with vision OS 2 the system tells you once

and then kind of forgets about it whereas in vision OS 1 it would be the sort of like uh Jason snail alert that comes up every so often you know it comes up any bothers you and you don't know is you and it gets in your way not so much anymore um lastly I want to recommend a

sub stack newsletter uh last week in apple vision pro it's the name and it's just a very good newsletter that sort of collects a bunch of visual as things it's it's the nest it's the closest thing to a blog all about vision OS that I've found and they do a really good job sort of collecting

all the things that developers come up with interviews new demos from youtube it's just a weekly collection of vision OS and vision pro related things and they do a really good job and subscribe to this too yeah quite nice yeah so that's uh that's my three things and yeah

Mike mentioned our our little chat so we try to do we try to put on the calendar right because that's that's one of the challenges is people don't have um they're not like hey let's just check in with my friend who happens to be wearing vision pro right now which I kind of wish they

would like offer some sort of solution for that where you could like see what ones of your friends like like how actually on the on the meta quest um it works that way where you can you know it's like like a game console it's like your friend is on right now um so I wish they would do that

but I the the the professional personas are so good and I try to explain to people and I think that they all think that I'm crazy but it's like when when we were doing this one this week it's like we're just around like a campfire or something and it feels completely different than being on a

video call with somebody it feels fun it's not the same as being together in person but it's much closer to that than it is to be on a FaceTime call it it just you're not seeing yourself and and making sure that you're positioned in the frame like you're just present in reality basically

virtual reality and you see people's facial expressions and you hear them and the position of the audio is perfect it's so good again nobody has got a vision pro so you got to be you got to have those people and you got to make the time but it's so good and then I'll throw it out again I

mentioned Roonstone earlier the other thing I use the vision pro for is absolutely when I am on a deadline and I am I just cannot focus and I need to write something I will put the vision pro on go into a an environment bring up Roonstone play some music that will help me focus and I have written

many articles in vision pro for that reason that it gives me you know I've written about it before sometimes I'll go outside in the summertime where I'll go work at the at the kitchen countertop or I'll just try to like change where I am or back in the day go to a cafe just to put myself in

a different mental space to write and I found that vision pro will let me do that and then I can go to Joshua Tree is my mental space and and right there and it really does work most of the time it's a very good product that is very expensive and requires the effort but if you're okay with all

of that god damn is good you know like it's real good and again I know that provided they are willing to commit it will all continue to get better I guess the next little while is if they're willing to commit I think that matters probably holding their feet to the fire and we'll see how

I put response if or but I think that if if it had been taken the back seat I don't think they can they can accept that to occur anymore sure helps up thank you for listening to the sub-satellite connected but most of all thank you Jason for joining us oh it was a play I

listen every week so it was a pleasure to be on and fill in for Stephen this week what was today's date Jason it is October the 9th 2024 check it out except no substitutes that big thing that happened later in October 2024 we didn't know about it didn't know about it you want to find

Jason online you can go to six colors dot com he is also the host of upgrade here on relay let's say co-host I don't know why I just why did I just demote myself like that Jason is the one and only person we're listening to on upgrade you can check him there every Monday it's just

you're just being you know it's official in your role as Mike I'm connected to sort of use yourself like yourself you can also find Jason on the incomparable and the other shows on relay too including downstream I always got to call it download you think I would have gotten that right by now but it

was actually successful at time so I shouldn't have caught attention to it you can find Jason online is that Jason now JSN E double L Federico is the editor in chief of Mac stories you know five Federico Mac stories dot net and he is also Vitechia Mac stories dot net on master done Vitechia on

threads I am I'm Mike I am Y K E and you can find my work here on relay and aquatics brand dot com I'd like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode that is the wonderful people over at net suite e cam and so trio's but most of all thank you for listening and we'll be back next week until then say goodbye everybody I'll be there to you later dude and I'll be there to do it yeah I love it