From Relay FM, this is connected Episode 504. Do they show is brought to you by our excellent sponsors, Zockdog, Tearscale and Saltreos. I'm Federico Vitiqi and I'm joined as always by Mr. Steven Hackett, a low-steven. Hello Federico, how are you? I am good, I am doing very well, how are you? I am well and I would like to ask the person I'm joined by, am I currently how they are doing? Hi Mike, how are you? I'm really good because of this feedback
from a Jesh that came into connected feedback. Whoa, you're just jumping right in. And Jesh says, well, because this is introduction related follow-up. I had an epiphany, I really like the idea of the Ricky Winners getting more than just bragging rights. So, to put her handles were hit and miss and now you don't use Twitter. How about if the winners have to be referred as such during the introduction of the show? I think this is a great idea. The
constant reminder of who is in fact chairman. So, Steven, why don't you reintroduce me to this episode? This is degrading. Reintroduce me, Steven. My name is Steven Hackett and I'm joined by our annual and keynote chairman, Mike Hurley. Why thank you very much. I would also at this point like to propose a rule amendment that we can get to later on of a combined title. So, and what would that be? Do all chairman? He's excellently the ultimate chairman.
Oh my god. Okay. Okay. We could do like what we do for the flexes, which is to choose, right? That in the event that the three of that we that we hold both, we each have our own title. See, I kind of like the idea that it is it is less a title that we choose, but one that is bestowed upon us like president or or you know, something like that. So, we have one title and whoever has both gets to use that title. But that isn't how the flexes works, right?
But the flexes are different, but related games. Different game. Different related games. Okay. We can workshop that next week, I guess. Oh no. We can workshop that next week, but I like the idea of a combined title for you. You might not be combined much longer if you lose to if you lose WBC. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy this while it lasts. I could also just win WBC, which would have been have been no problem for me and continue my combined title ship. Is anyone really
when WBC when it's about AI? I'll win. Well, because I'll win the rickies and I'll win the draft because that's just me win, win, win. Wow. Well, I'm undefeated in the draft for nearly two years. It's going great. Yeah. Oh, what is the saying pride go with before fall? So I think this yeah, well, I can't lose my annual championship for a while. So that's the left something that's true. Let's do some regular follow up. Federico tells you about squeezing your apple
pencil. It didn't work for like a solid 10 days and I just like I thought I was going crazy. Like everybody was enjoying this squeeze functionality and it just wasn't working for me. And that's when when somebody on Macedon alerted me that it was likely due to a setting that I had previously disabled a setting that is completely unrelated to the squeezing of the apple pencil pro. So it turns out because I had previously with my apple pencil to disabled
the double tap gesture in accessibility because I never I never used it. Like an in fact, it was like more more often than not I would accidentally trigger the trigger the double tap then intentionally use the double tap. So I disabled it. But with that setting turned off, squeezing the apple pencil, like configuring the squeeze gesture, my preference wouldn't stick. And so whenever I would go into settings and I would assign a command to the squeeze gesture,
it wouldn't get assigned at all and the squeeze would do nothing. So I had to reenable the double tap gesture and somehow magically that also made the squeeze feature work. So if you like me years ago disabled double tap on your apple pencil to you have to reenable it for now. If you want to use the squeeze gesture on your apple pencil pro, it's weird. I don't I don't understand why I hope it gets fixed. Like, let me choose. Maybe I want to use squeeze, but I don't want to
use double tap. But that's the that's the fix for now. Can you turn off double tap in the pencil settings? I guess you can, but I don't know. Why would you need to turn off an accessibility settings? Look, I don't know. This happened years ago. No, I mean, like you say to fix it, but I think it is taking care of now. I think you can disable double tap but leave. Well, I haven't tried
to pencil settings. Well, man. Yeah. There you go. Actually, I like I don't I don't even know why I got the pencil pro honestly, because it always sits in this like in this mug that I that I keep on my desk with my knitted Ricky or I guess needed weird fish thing. It's always in that mug and I never use it, but yeah, I guess I guess I could do that. Just go in and disable it again and it'll keep
working. Yeah, you're probably right. iOS 17.5.1 is out. It fixed the oh no, my deleted photos are back and at the end of the week last week, Apple commented on this to Chance Miller are for an over 9 to 5 Mac. This is from Chances article. According to Apple, the photos that did not fully delete from a user's device were not synced to iCloud photos. Those files were only on the device itself.
However, they could have persisted from one device to another when restoring from backup, performing a device device transfer or when restoring from an iCloud backup, but not using iCloud photos. It seems that this was some sort of database corruption where the photo wasn't deleted, but it was supposed to be and then it would pop back up. I am very glad this was not part of an iCloud photos bug that would have as bad as this is. I feel like that would have been even scarier.
Yes. Apple also commented on the or Chance commented at least on the report that photos were showing up on sold devices. That was untrue and that Reddit post that said that has now been deleted and maybe don't believe everything you read on Reddit. If you're Google, maybe don't power your new search by Reddit comments. In his article, Chance says that Apple confirmed to him that that wasn't possible. Good. That is good. Sometimes you just have to restore your phone and if you do
that, then these things won't happen. OpenAI has shown documents, video and images to the Washington Post, platformers and other platformer and others that they report is evidence that OpenAI did hire a voice actor for the sky voice. There's video that are basically in an essence saying they didn't create a voice that sounded like Scarlett Johansson. They hired, they were like a casting process for a bunch of actors they hired one and it just so happened coincidentally
that this person sounded like Scarlett Johansson. I still think that it is either a completely obvious that they tried to find someone that sounded just like her. I do not fully believe personally that they did not meddle with this voice to make it sound more like her. I cannot bring myself to believe that this is coincidental. I also do not believe what OpenAI is saying that Johansson, if she said yes, was going to be a sixth voice, added to their roster alongside the
voice that just so happened coincidentally to sound so much like her. And apparently only Sam Altman was responsible for this. Nobody else at OpenAI even knew about it. There's so much in this. I just can't bring myself to believe, but that's just the way. That's just what they're saying. It's okay. That's such a mess. We're not really getting into this today, but there's also reporting from the birds and others about some other things, about the coup that Sam Altman
was out and then back in. If more board members are talking about that now and the new safety team, because a bunch of the old safety team left is run by Sam Altman, it is incredible to me to watch this company speedrun errors and bad decisions that companies normally make over a much longer period of time. I find it very difficult to believe anything that comes out of that company
in terms of official communication, because they backtrack on almost all of it. Or to your point, it just doesn't make any sense of what we all saw with our own eyes. What I like is LLM development seems to be happening really quickly. It's like, wow, this stuff is happening. It's the same for the companies. They're doing things faster than normal. I will say, this isn't a defense because clearly I don't really feel a lot of defense in this
company. That safety team, this is one of these things where headlines are one thing and the information is another. I will read from the Virges article titled OpenAI has a new safety team is run by Sam Altman. OpenAI is forming a new safety team and it's led by Sam Altman, along with board members, Adam, D.I. and Jelowe and Nicole, Seligman. It's actually three people. The board that he has now hand picked, I find it difficult to trust Sam Altman in his position
at the moment. I think it's clear that I agree, but it was just the headlines in with me with that one. It's run by him. But then the first paragraph is like and two other people. I don't know anything about these two other people. Maybe they're great at this. Yeah. Well, now OpenAI will suck that Virges article into itself because Vox signed a deal with OpenAI today. Yeah. Yeah. Let me. Let me. What's going great? Yeah. Oh boy. Things are going great. Let me ask you all like a 10,000
foot question here. I love that. If you're Microsoft or Apple, particularly Apple, who apparently is running around the last minute trying to sign deals with OpenAI, like, does this sort of behavior give you pause about that? Or do you think these companies are kind of looking the other way at all their chaos because they need their technology? Well, I think I think we spoke about as I think it's clear Microsoft already had that pause, right? And then now doing what they're
like they're doing things. I think if we see OpenAI as part of WDPC, it shows how panicked Apple is. Right? That's a good answer. If they have a deal with them, the deal continues. After all of the nonsense that they've been through already and just the nonsense of the last few weeks, I think it shows that they are behind and that they're nervous. I think that's a good answer. Yeah. Especially if they make a big deal about it and they actually
mention, even mention OpenAI or say powered by OpenAI, like, yeah, I agree. That's a good take. What do you think? I don't know if this might form part of next week, but we'll say, what do you think is the chance that Sam Altman is a part of the video? Pretty good chance. Yeah. I can see it. I mean, I think he would want it, right? Which is like part of why it might happen. He's been on Apple Sage before. We're in two parts of your house. Hey, look, it was the style at the
time, I guess. It was not. Yeah, but I mean, look, look, we had the guy from AT&T, the guy from Verizon, we've had many guys on Stinger WDC. What's one more guy? That's a good point. I think it's like 50-50 that he would be on stage. I think it really depends on, and this is like my singular question going into WBC, is how in the world does Apple talk about this, like, where the lines are between what they're doing with Siri and what is happening elsewhere?
And it's, I think it all depends on like where, how they describe that. They made to say, oh, we have partners and not mention OpenAI by name, or they go all in and saying, hey, we went to the best and then have him out with his dual public shirts. Who is this video for? Right? That's the question. Who is this announcement going to be for? And I think that that,
I mean, I don't have an answer for that, right? But like, if Apple wants to speak to the wide tech community and their investors and the stock market, they say it's OpenAI because they are the leader. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, can we talk about headphones? Please. So we've all been wondering what the deal is with the new generation of AirPods Max. And for a while, I think Mark Gurman has been saying that Apple was working on a second generation
of the AirPods Max, which launched in 2020. I want to say, was that four years ago? I think that was one of the many products where they would just like, and here's the website, because no one knew what was going on. And it's like, here you go. And it's like, oh, I guess this has happened. Yeah. So yeah. But the thing is that based on one of the, one of the most recent reports by Mark Gurman, it seems like this is going to be a relatively minor update,
according to what Mark has heard so far. He said I expect the AirPods Max to get a USB-C port later this year, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any major new features. Are we looking at just the older AirPods Max, but we use being sort of lightning? That would suck. Like I did for me, anything less than bringing it to feature parity of the AirPods Pro 2 is a failure. Yes. Yeah. Right. They should at least give it the new processor so it lasts longer
and we'll get all those new features. I don't think they have to or need to redesign it. Like I think it's like whatever, right? It would be nice, but I don't think that that is important necessarily, because I do think that they are having their own kind of cultural moment in certain places around the world. Like it's become like a design that people like I've had people writing. I've seen it myself like New York and London, like more and more people
are wearing them, which is just funny to see more people buying them. We've known it so old. But getting that the internals up to spec with the kind of Apple state of the art, I think was very important. Not just whack it a USB-C pool and then calling it a day. Yeah. I do wonder if they're going to update these. Like it seems like the weight after USB-C, 10% agree. Like maybe there's something they can do with the weight. I think that's a pretty
common complaint there. But I think they also really like the premium feel that they think they have with the steel and the aluminum and everything. And they are very nice looking. They're too heavy for me. So I returned to mine. But I could see that and then I could see the holy grail of lossless audio. So they could stand apart a little bit from the AirPods Pro 2. Okay. The AirPods Max obviously have a form factor, but I can also do these other things.
But German seems to think it's going to be pretty minor and maybe that's all it is. And they'll just keep slowly bumping along. Do you ever think about getting a stronger neck? Wow. Do you ever consider it? I need to find a neck guy. Did the things the F1 drivers do? What we were all getting ready for the Vision Pro? That's right. Yeah. Speaking of Stephen and AirPods Duncan says, I fully endorse Stevens one
AirPods at a time approach. It's my most common way of listening. Means I can hear traffic when I'm walking my dogs. Maybe it's a dad thing. Do you think it's a dad thing? I think it's a thing that people don't want to get hit by cars. I don't think that's related to just the dads. Could be. But yeah, I'm a big one AirPods person. I should say I maybe I should have clarified that I also fully embrace Stevens approach. I think Stephen needs doing the right thing.
And I'm also like a one AirPods at a time person. I think it's the right approach. Even though as we'll talk about later, I now have a preferred way to listen to podcasts or music when I'm walking the dogs, but we'll get to that in a few minutes. But yeah, when I'm using AirPods, one AirPods. So yeah, Stephen is right. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you for thinking of me. Yeah, always. I was listening to the to the discussion about open AI spring update on episode 502. And I thought
of the rumors of the capture button on the next iPhone. If Apple were to partner with open AI, do you think that button would be used to show Siri what you're looking at and compete with other devices like the R1 and AI pin rather than just capture video? I thought we talked about this, but I think this is totally in the cards. I don't remember if we spoke about it or if we heard someone else on another show talk about I know I've heard this, but like yes, I think there
is some some sense in this. I just got those meta ray bands. I'm going to talk about later on in the show. And there I think there is something to be said about like a dedicated button for quick action. I think it's going to be really good to have the button to take photos, but I think it would be really interesting if you like held down the button and just started like talking to Siri and asking it stuff. Like what do you see? What is this? I think it could be kind of cool.
Or maybe the action button, like it's an actual button thing. Or whatever, right? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I think, did we talk about the action button? I connected recently. Yes. I did. Okay. I just, I had someone ask me in real life what I was doing with it. I was like, did we talk about the center podcast? But we did. I guess we did. We did. Yeah. Yeah. Action. I just want to what I should do is set up a shortcut that just says action and
like a deep nice like movie villain voice. Okay. The action button. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do that. Get you action. Okay. Oh, okay. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Zock Dock. You shouldn't have to fill awkward talking to your doctor. The good news is Zock Dock is the place where you can find a book doctor so you make you feel comfortable and actually listen to you. We're talking about tens of thousands
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FM. Oh no. Welcome back to the clizzis. The quiz show within a podcast where I'm Mike Hurley, quiz my connected co hosts randomly and by surprise on a variety of varying subjects. I would like to remind you of the scores, the accurate scores so far this year in 2024. Stephen is on 370 points. Federico is on 490 points. Looking at my scoring sheet here. I just glanced back to 2022 where Stephen won with 10,000 points. So there was a
I'm a lot of pressure pointing pressure like done a done a good job here. No, it's deflation because we need we need to get that in line. Today we're playing a new game. It's called Know Your Pro. Okay. Okay. I have a selection of questions. There are six questions in total. Three questions are about the iPad pro. Three questions are about the MacBook pro. Oh. Okay. There is 25 points per correct answer. And Federico will answer the Mac questions first
and Stephen will answer the iPad questions first. You both get to give answers to each question. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So the first question, which is an iPad question, we'll go to Stephen and then we'll we'll alternate from there. So Stephen, yeah, well, you'll both get to answer but Stephen gets to answer first. Stephen, what was the name of the processor in the original iPad pro? The original iPad pro was powered by the A9X. Okay. Federico?
Original iPad pro that's 2015. You don't know what my questions are. You might not want to give a way to it. I like that. Okay. Keep talking about that. It was November 2015. All right. It was. It was. Yeah. A9X. As 25 points each, it was in fact the A9X. All right. The original iPad pro. I got to that because I was like, okay, the A7 or the A7 was 2013. And so I was like counting on my fingers like, hey, A7, A89, it worked out. You counted quickly
because you gave me a fast on it. I just had a count by two to be fair. Wasn't. Well, you know, it wasn't amazing arithmetic on my board. I'm going to take a meal while to do that counting. I get an habit because I know what you're doing in a metric. You know, it's different. It is different. The conversion Federico, how many USB C ports did the final Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro have USB C USB C final Intel 16 inch MacBook Pro 2019. If that helps,
I should put it might you think to put Steven you said the 16 inch. Yeah. The final Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro from 2019. How many USB C ports did it have? It had four. Also, I think it's the only 16 inch Intel MacBook Pro. They only did one. So first, you do not get extra points for trivia, but I appreciate it. Got his 25 points to Steven. It had four. Yeah. So we're so far, 50 points to Steven, 25 points to Federico. Who's the pro now? We'll find out. We've only done two
about the six questions. That may have been, that may have been premature. It may have been premature. Yeah. Steven, in which year was the 10.5 inch iPad Pro released? 2017 Federico 2017. It was 2017. WBDC, I think. Yeah. Steven, you're going to get a clean sweep. We'll halfway through it so you're going to get more right. I hope so. Federico, do you think you're going to beat him? No. Okay. Okay. So one co-host incredibly confident. The other not confident at all.
Yeah. Federico. I become a humble person. It's one of the many qualities. When did that happen? Did that have interest? Did that recent? Yeah. I always go through a lot of improvements. You know, and the one of the first reason once. That's really good. That's a great. Without question three, Federico, what was the maximum amount of RAM that you could put into the first
14 inch M1 Pro slash M1 Max MacBook Pro? What the hell do I know? Can you repeat that? What was the maximum amount of RAM that you could put into the first 14 inch M1 Pro slash M1 Max MacBook Pro? You know what? I'm going to make this question slightly easier because it's a bit confusing. I also feel like there could be some rules lawyering later on. So the question is, what was the maximum amount of RAM that you could put into the first 14 inch M1 Max MacBook Pro?
32 gig. Okay. Stephen, I would like to answer the original question. The M1 Pro, I believe, was capped at 32 gigabytes and the M1 Max was at 64. Okay. I don't know why you're you feel the need to be a teacher's pet today, but you are correct. What I will say is this information was taken from Apple's text specs page. Okay. They said M1 Pro slash M1 Max maximum RAM 64 gigabytes do with that what you will. Okay. But it was in fact 64 gig. I don't know if you were correct
on your extra credit, but you were correct for the question. This is a good computer man. I love the 14 inch M1 right now. It's great. Stephen, which generation of the 12.9 inch iPad Pro was the first to get face ID? Which generation? So you're looking for like the generation number? Yes. Not the year. Not the year. I want the generation. Boy. Which generation of the 12.9 inch iPad Pro was the first to get face ID? That's the hardest question I think I've gotten so far. I'm
I'm going to say third. Okay. Third gen. It was in fact the third gen. Come on, Mike, this iPad questions are so easy and the Mac ones are impossible. I feel the same way, but inside out. This is this is why I split it this way because I know you would both feel like this. Right? Like this is why I did iPad and Mac. Well, I actually honestly, I think the Mac questions are harder and that was kind of I don't so how is that that's not more fair for Stephen. Is it if they're harder
questions? No, it's it's unfair to me. But they're hard questions. They're hard for you. Yeah. Anyway, final question. What is the maximum amount of external displays that the M3 Max MacBook Pro will support Federica? I have no idea. The maximum amount I just need a number. I absolutely no clue. Three. Stephen? Ask it one more time. I'm going to make sure I follow it. What is the maximum amount or say let's say the maximum total of external displays that the M3
Max MacBook Pro can support? I'm going to say three. Unfortunately, you both got that question wrong. The answer is four. So Stephen, you did not get. So what you can take away from this Federico is you did at least win your prediction. You know, where he said you were going to lose Stephen lost his
prediction. The final points is 75 points for Federico and 125 points for Stephen. I will read you a read to you from Apple's technical support document about the M3 Max MacBook Pro where they say this is incredibly complicated the way they write this up to three external displays of 6K resolution at 60 hertz of a Thunderbolt and one external display of up to 4K resolution at 144 hertz of a HDMI. I don't know why they need to do it that way. You know, you can have four,
three of them can be this, but this other one can be this other one, but can only be of HDMI. It's like, okay, thank you very much. So at the end of that game, the points have shifted. Stephen has 495 points for the year. Federico has 565 points. So Federico is still in the lead. Still in the lead, but the gap has shifted by a little bit. Thank you so much. Listening maybe next time, Dom put down news questions like what's the maximum amount of ram
that you can put on an M1 Max Max MacBook Pro? Would you have liked me to ask compare to your questions for Stephen? Did the iPad cat face a do? I know what I asked. I asked which generation of the 12.9 inch iPad Pro was. So what you would like next time if I'm understanding Federico is for Stephen to have easier questions? Well, no. Yes. Okay. No, yes. I will take that. No, yes. Away with me. Yes. And we'll use it for the next game.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for participating in the humble manner of which you both participated in this edition of the quizzes. This episode of the show is brought to you by TailScale, a programmable networking software that is private and secure by default. It's the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever they are. It's super secure, providing remote access to production,
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So head on over to tailscale.com slash relay FM to try TailScale for free for up to 100 devices and three users. Our thanks to TailScale for the support of the show and relay FM. WWDC 2024 has been announced. Well, I mean, we already knew it. The announced is wrong. They're surprising us by saying there's going to be a keynote in the morning. It starts at 10am Pacific time. Platforms stay at the union is at 1pm. I saw somebody on the mast and I'm saying
that that time gap is getting shorter and shorter over the years. It is. Yeah, it used to be able to go like for a walk or something. And now yeah, you get a sandwich to go back to the last. Going to go straight into it. But yeah, so there's more information now about WWDC. It is following the same format as we have followed for the last few years. Everything's happened
at Apple Park. They also announced the ADA finalists. There's some interesting stuff in here, I'll say like I actually think as a list of finalists, feels maybe a little bit more broad than it's been in recent years. There are some apps that have been nominated in multiple categories, which you know, find whatever. But for me at least, I do feel like this is a more interesting list of apps than there have been in the last few years. I don't know what you'd think
Federica probably you're closer to it. I think it's a pretty good list. It's nice to see, of course, some India apps in the list like SmartGym, Cruton, excellent app. I like that there's a new spatial computing category because of course they want to promote the Vision OS App Store. And just the one the one left that I had was of course there is that stranding director's cut in the games category because and Liza P. And Liza P. Apple is going to milk this triple A titles
coming to macOS as much as they can. It used to be until last year resident evil nominated for like two years in a row or something. And now it's the turn. It's probably the last one for death stranding I think. Now it's going to be Liza of P. I guess it's going to be nominated also at the end of the year. But then you know it. You can you can smell it coming from a mile away. The Assassin's Creed Mirage is going to take the place of this game. See the next nominations.
Assassin's Creed shadows. Yeah shadows also launching day one. I bet they're called that. Which is pretty that's pretty cool actually. But yeah. As far as we know that's going to be Mac only though right. Mac only. Yeah. Yeah. Shadow sees Mac only. Mirage is iPhone and iPad. No Mac. So yeah. That's funny. That's very funny. I was happy to see spatial computing be a a category in the ADA. It doesn't feel like there's a lot going on in Vision of Westland. So
I'm glad Apple's spotlighting some people who are doing stuff there. Yeah. I was very happy to see infinity get a nomination. It is a truly excellent excellent excellent iPhone game on Apple Arcade. I have poured honestly probably over 100 hours instead of this game this year. It's my like has been my commute in game. So like I'm playing it a lot. It's just a truly fantastic game. Which I recommend people go and check out. But yeah, I would say as well like it was great to see
Cruton. Obviously procreate dreams is in there a couple of times. Arc search in the interactions category. Which I think you know I love it or hate it. That is what arc is right. Like it is an app which has interested interactions right. Like that's their like whole thing. Whether you like these interactions or not is another thing. But like that's there. And so yeah, I thought it was that was pretty cool. I was very like initially like could not understand until I had to read it.
But like my initial kind of glance of like in the impact like the social impact category to see cityscapes symbol that I was like what why but they have like an environmental aspect to the the city building sim which which is kind of cool actually. Like I like that. You know like maybe how do you design the city to be environmentally conscious. But yeah. And then you know black box we spoke about that being in DJ not surprising the NBA app not surprising. So yeah, I think
that this year when I look through it. I didn't have any like what kind of feelings. A lot of this made a lot of sense to me. Even if again like like you guys say like some of them are like like the obvious ones like the games. They they tend to award the partnerships that they have. Which makes sense. I think in the past they had Apple arcade specific categories but they don't anymore. It seems like it's just games. Yeah, they have I think they have rotated some of the
categories. I didn't they used to do like watch apps or tvOS at some point. Yeah. And then they helped the actual computing doesn't go in that direction. Yeah. That's everybody's op. Yeah, I know I know. Yeah. Mm hmm. We'll see. But yeah, it's a pretty good list. I want to go ahead and say probably one of the best ones that they've had. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. So I think it's mixed between the types of apps. It's mixed up between Indy and not like I think it's
I think it's cool. Right. I think as a list, it's cool. I know a couple of apps on here. Honestly, every time I come away from the ADA's and I'm like, what is this app? Like I think that's good. Like I want to be able to see this list and see things that I don't know about. And that I'm interested to learn more about. And I have that from a few apps in this list this year. Yes. Speaking of the upcoming WWDC, there's an interesting rumor that has been reported also by
Mark Irman. I'm really looking forward to the next two editions of the Mark Irman newsletter. As I assume, we're going to get more details about iOS 18. One of these details is the more customizable home screen. And so according to Mark, in addition to being able to freely place
icons anywhere. And so, you know, you in theory, users will be able to design custom layouts that you know, with these icons and widgets that do not necessarily snap to the grid that is being with us since the beginning of the iPhone, but maybe we will be able to create, you know, more dynamic layouts with things like blank spaces, empty spots, like weird and fun arrangements for icons and widgets. But in addition to that, it seems like Apple is working on a system to recolor
app icons. And I kind of wanted to hear from you guys what you think about this. My perspective is that obviously Android has had something along these lines for the past couple of years. Ever since they did the whole, what was it called? Material. Yeah. So on Android, you are able to sort of select like a system-wide color theme. And that can be applied if you want to to icons that support the material you themeing system. I'm going to make you feel old now. Material
you was unveiled in 2021. Oh boy. So three years ago. Three years ago. Okay. Three years ago. Three years ago. But yeah. So this sounds like a similar system. What do you guys think? I mean, yeah, it's all about the implementation for me. Like, because I, I struggle to imagine like, say, Facebook, right? The blue is their brand. So how do you convince Facebook to allow users to change the icon? Like, I'm the thing that I am most interested in is how this works.
Because unless Apple force it, this will not be widely adopted. Yeah. I don't think that will force it. I think it'll just be an option. And I do think they have the potential to do something similar from like from a developer perspective to sort of follow the approach that they have taken over the past few years with SF symbols, which are the icons that developers can use in their apps. And SF symbols they launched a few years ago at this point with just the ability to use this
monochrome icons in your apps. But now like, especially over the past two or three years, there's so many different options that you can enable. If you are a developer and you want to use an SF symbol, you can choose like a multicolor symbol. You can apply a custom hierarchical palette. Like, you can tweak the colors of the symbols in many different ways. And I think from a technical perspective, Apple could build something similar where they could ask developers.
If you want to support this technology, now your Apple icon needs to be in this specific vector format. And you should be mindful of the fact that users can maybe change two areas of the icon. Like, maybe the glyph can be changed. Maybe parts of the glyph can be changed. Sort of like you can have a multicolor SF symbol that has like for example shiny yellow sparkles and like another element of the icon that is red. That's a multicolor SF symbol. Or maybe you can just change the backdrop
of the icon. And the glyph is always white or black and you just change the background color. They could go about this multiple ways. But I think you're right. It's all in the implementation. And I don't think they're going to enforce it like as a rule. But at the same time, I think there
could be some really important accessibility benefits to this as well. Like beyond visual customization, I think it may be helpful for a lot of people to be able to say, I just want you know, these icons in this row to be yellow and these other icons to be blue because it helps me identify particular groups of apps or whatever. And Mike, my thoughts were really similar to yours. They're going to be some brands that don't want to do this because they do, you know,
feel very strongly about their pantone color. But outside of those, like I think it'd be awesome. I think a lot of of indie app developers, if this were optional, would totally opt into this. It is interesting that we would see icon customization come really many, many years after the multiple icon system was built out. That was what? Federico iOS 14 15. Probably even before that custom icons. I'm going to say they're 12 or 13.
Okay, so that's been a long time. And even some big apps offer those. You know, it's within their control, right? They're like Twitter used to do. You'd have like five or six at a time. And then there'd be one that you really liked and they get rid of it. But I do think this would be a great addition. I think they could find a way that big brands could still have their, their, you know, important brand element there and still offer some level of customization.
I don't think this would be something that Apple would just do across the board. I think it would, it would be something that developers have to opt into, which would mean you could have a really cool, awesome, like sleek looking home screen. And then, you know, Facebook would still be blue, but the shortcuts methodology, I'm sure would still be present. So you could still have those shortcuts that just launch an app with a different icon. Those could still be there.
I would hope also that shortcuts, whatever gets added to the system level is also exposed in shortcuts. So you could do, you could do fun stuff. But I'm all for it. I think it'd be really cool. And I think there's a lot of users who want, who want to continue to customize their home screens. We see people do all sorts of wild things now. Give people more tools to make their devices their own. Yeah. And by the way, thanks to Vince in the chat, alternative
app icons were actually from iOS 10 point three. So that's the point. 10.3. I remember it was like a mid cycle update that added this API. And we all lost our minds that Apple was doing this in the spring. But this is the pandemic effect. Every single version of iOS from the past that we think of, it's offset by two or three years in our minds. So I said 12 or 13 is actually 10. And which tracks makes sense. So long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned SF symbols. I would just like
to reiterate my plea for Apple and developers to give us access to SF symbols everywhere. Like if I'm setting up a reminder's list, why am I stuck using the 26 that someone at reminders thought was cool 10 years ago. Same thing in shortcuts. Yeah. Yeah. There are some apps. Overcast is one of them that does it does expose SF symbols. You can really customize stuff. And yeah, it's a lot to choose from. But it's so much fun. And I would love to like have these
things the same across all these apps. Like please, every time this comes up by bag, please give us SF symbols and more places. You've done the apples done great work on those, I think. And why not let users have Adam. Nobody ever complained that they had too many icons to choose from. So I don't understand why reminders has to be limited to like to it's not 26. I think it's actually 42 or something, but it's still a very small number compared to the how many 1500 SF symbols that
you have now. So yeah, please. Do you prefer SF symbols to emoji? Like I would just want emoji. I'll give us both. I will soon you will be able to make your own emoji. Thanks. Yeah. Oh boy. So I I prefer SF symbols for things like reminders lists and and shortcuts stuff. I think emoji are fun. I don't hear them not saying. But I think when I'm like building user interface for myself, SF SF symbols feels like a better choice for me at least.
I'm a big emoji boy obviously. I know. Obviously. And it's actually over 5,000 SF symbols. Wow, it keeps growing. You're from 26 to 42 to 1200 to 5000. But at the end of this episode, there will be 17 million SF symbols. See that? I hope you enjoy putting that together, you know, and you get it in your apps. Yeah. A lot of SF symbols. Yo, dog. I heard you like symbols. Put some symbols in your symbols times 2000.
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That way they know you heard about it from this show. That's KevinGrant.name slash apps, or click the link in the show notes. Thanks to Celterios for the support of the show and relay FM. So I followed Federico's enthusiasm and picked up a pair of the Meta Ray bands. I ordered them hoping they would arrive before my vacation. I just took, but they didn't. This was because I got prescription lenses and transition lenses and that seemed to take a long time.
There was a thing where I sent my prescription to RayBand and they said, your prescription is out of date. You need it in the last two years, and then I was able to tell them to just look at the date because I got it done 18 months ago. So you know, these things, they take time. I really like the transition lenses. I've never used them before. I've never had transition lenses. And part of the reason that I went with these RayBands in the first place is I needed a
new pair of prescription sunglasses and I wanted to get transition sunglasses. And so this, like I was like, why not combine everything together and do it all at once? And I wanted to get transition because I have a vision prescription and I often do not use my sunglasses or take my sunglasses out with me when it's sunny because I don't want to carry a glasses case, right?
It's because I don't want to be swapping from my vision glasses to my sunglasses if I go inside somewhere because I don't want to wear my sunglasses like just like sunglasses, wallying a meal or whatever. So I wanted to try out the transitions and I really actually liked the way that it works. Now while the RayBands with clear glasses, like clear frames, glass is not my personal glasses aesthetic. At least it's getting the job done. You know what I mean?
Like I think that the RayBands style looks significantly better as sunglasses than eye glasses for me because when there are glasses, they just look like very chunky frames. But it at least means it's going to do what I need from like a functional level. So I'm pretty happy with that. So as sunglasses and the transition lenses, I like, I also got the ones with like the green tint to them, which I think just looks nice. Like I'm happy with how it works.
There was a bunch of things I didn't know about transition lenses and we were talking about this in the group chat. Like obviously they don't actually react to light, they're reactive to UV, which I think is cool. I didn't know this. Obviously that means that there are certain decisions you might want to make. Like they're bad for driving because you don't get the benefits of sunglasses when you're driving because the car windows will block a lot of the UV. But it's
it's an interesting way of doing it, which which I kind of like. I obviously the camera is unlocks a lot of features, but these headphones also have speakers in them. They're like pointed at your ears. And I was surprised how nice it was to use them as headphones. Like I was out walking in the street. There was no one in the street. I was listening to something a podcast on my AirPods and I was like, what would it be like to listen on the RayBands instead?
And so I tried it and it was great. It was really nice. Steven, this is like you and your one AirPods. You know, I could hear the road. This is better than the one AirPods. This is what I was going to see earlier. I get sound in both ears and all of the road noise. Yeah. Yeah. And I would just say what I didn't mention to like I've said this before, but this is the best looking wearable technology that exists on the market today. I agree. Because it's a pair of RayBands.
Like you wouldn't even know. They have slightly thicker arms on them, but that's it. Like and plus the case is sick. It's such a good looking case. It's just like this beautiful like vegan leather, I'm assuming thing. It just looks like a sunglasses case. This is the key here. And I'm actually really happy that met a like partnered with RayBands rather than just release their own. Right. It's like let's put our technology into an understood visual design. Right.
That it's not Google gloss. Right. It's not Apple Vision, bro. It's not like whatever. People know what RayBands look like. And then had the visual kind of constraints of fit this technology into a pair of RayBands. And I think they did a fantastic job. It's very good. It's kind of the thing with with electric cars. Right. A lot of people want an EV that just looks like a Honda Accord and not some spaceship thing. And I think Meta has
tapped into that with wearables. Yes. And like, you know, I'm sure that if they design from the ground up, it could be better in different ways. Right. Like maybe the camera would be better, the battery life would be longer or whatever I don't know. Right. Like they obviously had constraints. But I think that they have turned out a product that is good. Like the camera, the camera is great for what it is. Like it is, you're not going to get your best photo with
this camera. And I actually think that Meta have done a pretty good job. They have cranked the saturation on this camera. Like if you follow me on Instagram, you know I love some saturation to my images. This is even further than I would go. Like they have every color is the maximum version that it could be. But what that does is it makes the images look appealing. Like in this is a thing that I think we've all learned from MkBHD's camera test over the years
that like whatever has the most color tends to be what wins with people. Like, and I think that that is a clever way of doing it. They also do some AI enhancements to images. They tell you when they do this and you can reverse it. So far from me, it's been in like strengthening images. So like I think that that's pretty good. And like so, yeah, I you get photos from this that you otherwise would not get. That's what the benefit of this
camera is. Like if it is an important thing, I'm going to pull out my iPhone and get the right photo. But like I was out walking the other day and I walked past a garden and I liked one of the flowers in the garden. This is not worth me taking my phone out of my pocket to take a picture of because I wanted to show it in every like what is this should we get this. But I just reached up, clicked it and that was it. Like I was already looking at it and I just snapped the photo. And
I know I would have not done that otherwise. Right. And I could have at that moment if I wanted to and I did try this out as a test, I could have asked meta is AI to tell me what the flower was because you can do that. Right. And methods AI stuff is fine right now. Like I haven't had
chances to use it on real things. Like it's just been testing for me. But I do think that this like putting something on your body and it being able to answer questions like this kind of ubiquitous access to some kind of AI system, I think is going to be important for people over time. And like the earlier we can put this into things the sooner people will understand how they might use it. But yeah, I've been very happy with the overall package of this product.
And what I also like is yeah, it has a battery like I was thinking about this. I don't know how long the battery lasts yet. Maybe you have more of a sense of this than me. Federico, I have no idea how long. Yeah. But if the battery dies, they still function as sunglasses. Right. Like exactly. That's not the worst. Yeah, I'm happy with it. Yeah. Yeah. So I have also some follow-up on my meta-ray bands. So at the moment, I don't have them because I did what I told you I was going to do.
I had to send them to a company based in the UK to apply my prescription lenses. I tried going and I actually got an email yesterday from a listener of the show about this. This person had the same problem at a Rayband store in Milan, but they insisted and they were able to swap the lenses. When I asked at a Rayband store here in Rome, they declined my request. They said, oh, we cannot apply lenses because otherwise we're going to avoid the warranty of the glasses.
Which is questionable since these are like, you just need to snap them out and snap the new ones back in. In fact, the company that I've been talking to based in the UK, they offered, hey, do you just want us to send you the lenses and we can send you a YouTube link to show you how you can do it? And I was like, no, it's fine. I'll just send it to you. You do it. I tend to be clumsy with this glass things and I don't want to break them. So I just feel safer knowing that
you're going to do it. And it's fine. I went with prescription transition lenses. What you did? I did. So I was talking about this with Silvia and we realized that the benefits of just not having to swap glasses are more important than the slight downside of the lens is not turning dark when I'm driving. It's much more comfortable, I think, for me to just put on a pair of glasses and forget about them because I'm just going to transition to being dark outside,
then making sure that when I'm driving, the lenses also go dark. Like whatever, it's fine. And this decision was, it was enforced when we spent the day together in Battersea because I kept watching you take your glasses off and put new glasses. And it was uncomfortable when I did that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I put in a request for, I think actually the company that I'm using Lenzology, which are actually the same folks who provided me for lenses for the X-real glasses.
Oh, I'll bet. I think they're actually using the latest generation transition lenses. And I don't think Meta and Raybann are using the latest Gen 8 transition lenses, but I may be mistaken. Anyway, I'm getting those and I hope I'll be able to get them back soon because I really missed
them. That's the thing. Like I'm realizing now that whenever I'm walking my dogs, like it took me just 10 days to get used to this idea of like when I'm walking the dogs and I take this like 30 to 40 minute walks, it's so convenient to being able to take pictures of the dogs or like nice flowers that I encounter, nice plants that I encounter that I want to show Silvia later. It's just easier to do it. Like both hands are occupied, holding the lishes for the dogs. And I can just, it's easier to
reach out, you know, with one hand and quickly snap a picture. Then it is obviously to grab my phone and you know, and my hand is shaking because maybe ginger is pulling my arm and I got to take a picture and then the picture comes out blurry. You know, it's a whole thing, especially when you're walking two dogs. So I really missed them. I got super used to listening to podcasts, especially using the built-in speakers of the of the glasses. I found that like I discovered that if I keep the
volume like 50% or something and even if people walk by, nobody cares. Like nobody absolutely cares also because people when they're walking around you, they're also wearing airpods and they're listening to their stuff. So nobody's paying attention to you. That was a nice realization. It's pretty quiet though. Like it's not very loud. And it's also not very loud. So and in the case that anybody figures out, hey, are you, why are your glasses making sounds? If they're gonna ask
me, I'm more than happy to explain what the product is. So the camera was convenient. The the the speakers were super convenient. I do wish that the voice control supported playback commands. Like for example, I tried skipping like I tried saying meta skip ahead 30 seconds and it said I cannot perform that you need to use your phone to do that while listening to Bluetooth audio. So that was an interesting limitation. I bet I which I don't even know why that's the case
because like when I mean my car, my car's Bluetooth unit can skip ahead. So I don't know what's going on. Have you asked it to just skip? I did not ask just skip. I think when you're listening to a podcast like the the control of like next track just skip. Maybe I should just set skip. I'll try again. I'll try again when I get them. You should try that. I did something extremely cool which is one of the many integrations that the that the Raybans have which is the WhatsApp integration.
So one day I was walking the dogs and my mom called me on the phone like regular phone call and then I realized it's like mom, can we try something for a second? Like can you call me on WhatsApp video because I want to show you something. She was like okay. So she called me on WhatsApp video. I was holding my phone and so I was just using the front facing camera of the phone. But then when the glasses are connected you got a new icon in WhatsApp videos UI with the glasses and so it's like
mom, I'm going to show you what I'm looking at because I'm wearing these glasses. She knew that I had these glasses but she had no idea that they also I like a camera for video calls and then I put my phone in my pocket and I kept walking and we started talking for like 10 minutes as I was
walking the dogs and she obviously I couldn't see her but because my phone was in my pocket but she was seeing my perspective on a video call as I was walking the dogs and it quickly became like initially it's like oh this is cool like it became like a natural thing within seconds like
she got used to like hey what are you doing where you're going she started commenting on like other dogs that were walking by it's like and that was very nice like to that that she was able to see my my perspective as I was using the glasses and lastly you guys will be absolutely shocked to learn
that on Reddit I found a person who was 3d printing charging accessories for the Raybands and so I got myself a really nice USB-C powered charging stand that I can put on my nightstand so that when I go to sleep I can put my glasses to recharge on my nightstand without having to keep my case
on the nightstand but just a teeny tiny charger powered by USB-C so that's pretty cool and yeah I really missed them I want them back this is time to you all Stephen you've tempted by any of this conversation not particularly okay you don't have to be I I wondered if it would I didn't think it
would so I wondered if it would now I don't think it does yeah I do think personally like I I want a second mic sentiment here that this for me right now it's like the most exciting wearable accessory that I have like because it's it's like a normal like it's regular pair of glasses and they're
good looking because the Raybands and but at the same time they're like a tech product also and and then actually useful one at that so it's yeah it's I don't know I kind of what I want to say something personally I find them like they give me more joy than my Apple Watch when I'm walking
and doing things interesting I don't know yeah yeah I mean obviously I'm still wearing my Apple Watch and in fact I do think the combination like Apple Watch plus the glasses is a pretty great one because you can control the playback from the watch and listen through the glasses so Apple
Watch and Rayband combo is a very good one but like I maybe it's the novelty effect I don't know but these glasses that like they make me super happy that I have them and that's why I missed them so much so you just got away in over 15 years for apples they are glasses and you love the perfect
one they should you know I would pay so much for an Apple version of this just just partner with I don't know Rayband I guess he's out of the iPods that's a good name that's a good name and remember when someone said they were gonna have Steve Jobs special edition
heritage edition and you mean yeah here it is John Prostor claims Apple is working on a Steve Jobs heritage edition AR glasses girlman calls rumor quote complete fiction those were the days man those were the days leakers as they called them leakers talking to things that we put on our face
and our feelings with them I wanted to kind of get a vibe check you know what I'm saying you know what I'm saying I want to get a vibe check check from the two of you about your vision pro I would just start off by saying is a piece of news job simulator and vacation simulator have
now launched on the vision pro I tried out job simulator today and what I say is I think that these games are the absolute like gold standard for what a VR game can be like they were very early on and Pete lots of people play them and I think it informed a lot of like future games like they're
really good fun and they allow for you to understand like interaction in a very quick way I'm happy that they finally made its way to vision pro I was hoping that they would I would say at this point I have played these games too many times to be exciting to me but the vision pro version works great
and it's actually it's interesting because when you go on other platforms you're using controllers to grab things but with vision pro you use your hands which I think is interesting it's like a positive and a negative because you're grabbing but you're not actually touching anything when you grab
so it's like half good half bad I think but you know I thoroughly recommend especially jobs I think job simulator is a better game than vacation simulator vacation simulator is much more advanced in a lot of ways but I think in some points to the detriment of the game job simulator is just very fun
I really recommend these to anybody who hasn't played them before and also if you have a vision pro and you don't know what to demo for people you should just put them in job simulator in time to have a good time I think we all three of us have had that experience right of like put this on
and try job simulator and it's like your mind is blown by how fun it is we played with it at Facebook a hundred years ago did we was it I've tried to remember this guy I know we have multiple experiences together I don't I think Stephen we played it at a thing in Tennessee oh that's right
we were not a Facebook yeah yeah yeah I don't think it was available at that point yeah you're right my vision pro check-in is a pretty quick and easy one I haven't used it in like three weeks it's been sitting on a stand there but to be fair but to be
fair though lately obviously I've been very excited about the new iPad and the new monitor that I have on my desk so maybe it's because I've been distracted by my product and by my desk rethinking by the fact that I like again not to go back to the previous topic right now
I miss my meta-rebands so much and I don't miss the vision pro at the moment it's for the guy who caught a computer in half to better interact with vision pro this is a surprise to me I thought that I knew exactly how this conversation was going to go and it's both of you and it's not going
that way I'm excited for Stephen to tell me he's been wearing it nonstop for six weeks we'll find out where that goes in a minute but this is a big surprise to me for the required I did not I did not I think part of the problem is also obviously the the frustrations that we mentioned before
involved with like actually working with the vision pro especially if you if you are a rider like there's not a lot of great tech seditors and it's great that you can open as many windows as you want but it's not so great that you have no ways no way to manage those windows right so it's a lot
of power with very little instruments to hold and manage that power and yeah so that and you know those frustrations plus the fact that I don't know I was distracted by the iPad and by this new monitor that I have and the fact that there's still a lot of friction with like okay you know put
it on and you know navigating the home screens is so clunky finding windows like it's still a very young OS so I am absolutely keeping an open mind and I think I'm actually going to install vision OS 2.0 right away you know provided that it doesn't brick my vision pro yeah because I do think it's
it's largely like a software problem which is funny you know because it sort of mirrors and matches one to one the situation with the iPad pro but the iPad pro at the very least is a more mature platform than vision OS but it's it's kind of ironic that it's excellent hardware and I'm here
talking about like the friction found in the software yeah what about you Mike oh I already spoke about it and upgrade because I don't want to rehash it I'm more interested in what you have to say this is this is kind of a follow-out segment oh follow-out yeah I haven't I haven't used it in a long time there you go what is going on it's it's it's also it's also the headset syndrome right like this happens with so many and it's it happened in my life for so many different headsets like
the meta quest the psvr and now the Apple vision pro like the x-ray all glasses like unless the platform is supported by a very steady flow of new apps and new things and especially because these are new platforms and they have a lot to catch up with with other computing devices you need to have
constant updates and I mean let's face it Apple has been far from constant with vision OS things lately you know I mean we still have those environments coming soon coming soon man any day now you know I do you think like and and I don't know if you guys have kept an eye on the
vision OS app store but like after the initial wave of new apps especially from indie developers and especially because those indie developers are not making enough money on the vision OS app store because the vision pro is still a us only product like it's it's many problems sort of
conflating into one thing which is this headset has been on my shelf for three weeks yeah can I can I give you both some recommendations to some things to do so what I say is maybe I think I should probably I should answer your answer your questions even to give some contrast I I use my vision pro
like one to two hours a week at least like I use it maybe every other day for at least an amount of time and so well one if you've never tried or you should try jobs simulator that's again to try what if there's a Marvel experience like an interactive kind of movie thing is coming out
on the third year I've played it it's fantastic you should try that like even it federally I even recommend you try it even though you won't you don't care about it it will be free at first just as like a oh look how interesting the interaction model is for it like you you're casting
spells with your hands it's pretty cool I've seen as well there is a game which the name of it escapes me now but it's like a 40 dollar game this on it's like a card game it's on vision pro it's been on quest and stuff that's that's come out which I have not tried yet but I'm intrigued to
try it and also the they finally add some new content so you can watch the parkour thing which is wild they also updated the parkour trailer thing which I really recommend so like the kind of this is a real trailer that we've all seen it's all new and it's got a ton of new stuff in it which
is really interesting of content that we have not seen so like the Super Bowl and the NBA all star game like there's new stuff in it so I recommend that too but I would say there is stuff it's not a ton of stuff is nowhere near as much as we'd hope there's no way as much as we should but there
is stuff I would actually say the last couple of weeks there's been more things than maybe in the last six weeks but that's only one side of the coin right the entertainment stuff is obviously really important to this device my bigger frustration because I don't spend a lot of time at
entertainment on any device is that it's just not a very useful computer to me yeah I was about to say the same thing like my entertainment this is video games and I have a PC or console for that like the reason I just want to use it as a computer like in the afternoon I don't want to sit down
and watch Marvel stuff I need to get work done and yeah yeah I agree with Stephen that's it's kind of funny to me maybe maybe I use it more for work because of how I use my iPad like I use my iPad very like a like a simple turn I think like it's very like I even when I'm using my iPad for work
is like one app at a time like I just like close the app go to the next app and like I'm happy with that and like so I think I'm maybe a little bit more focused around using my vision pro for work because it's pretty it's like a big fancy iPad to me I don't know it's a fancy iPad that goes
on your face I mean that was in my original review it was like in terms of computing it is an iPad with a with a more unusual and kind of finicky user interface now to echo if I'd like to say it is very young and I anticipate some nice changes and additions to it at W.A.B.D.C.
but these things have to move in tandem right the entertainment and the productivity have to I think both move forward and hopefully they're they're getting all that lined up as we always say for the iPad there's always that with W.A.B.D.C.
It's true you know I think that about does it for this week on connected if you want to read some of the stories we spoke about check out the links in your podcast player they're also out on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 504 there's also a link to submit feedback or follow up so send
us a note via the form if that needs to be anonymous just hit the anonymous box let us know cool secrets I guess somebody did write in and do an anonymous to say that they were involved in the testing of the tandem OLED and there was concern that there was a slight green tint for
a sun period of time oh no oh wow what do you say that Mike that was the thing tandem green gate yeah well I left it for the end of the show for this particular reason thank you for that if if you if you want to become a member you'll get ad free longer versions of the show each
and every week this week we spoke about two new old computers in my life and a someone I won't say who has recorded this episode using an iPad it's no what you think no it is exactly what you think is what exactly what you think I said I said that in real life the other day and of course no
a new the reference it was no I love it I love it's becoming a little meme between us it is it's really good I've seen it on massive on two from other people it's it's becoming a thing really good if so anyways members ad free longer versions of the show each and every week you
also get access to relays member discord newsletter some members only podcast lots of great stuff it's just seven bucks a month go sign up it's a great time you can find us all online on threads and mastodon Mike can be found as i mic i m y k e federico is vatichi vi ti cci and you can find me
as isa mh 86 mic of course is also the co-founder of cortex brand federico is the editor-in-chief of macstories dot net and i write over at five twelve pixels dot net i'd like to thank our sponsors this week zokdok tailscale and celtrios and until next time guys say goodbye i'd even get to cheerio bye all