499: Without Any Morals

From Relay FM, this is Connected Episode 499. Today's show is brought to you by Jam, one password and fit-bod. My name is Mike Hurley. I'm joined by Federico Vitticci, Chau Federico. Chau Mike, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, we are without Dad. Yes, no Dad. No Dad. Yeah. Federico, do you know West even is? No, actually I don't. Okay, he's in Memphis, but there's a big thing going on for St. Jude right

now that they're bringing in creators. And so Steven's there, Kathy's there, Casey and Jason are there too. They've got some people in. It's kind of like a create a summit, they call it for funraisers. Steven takes me today to tell me there's a lot of gamers here. A lot of gamers? Yeah, it's mostly gamers. It's gamers and then a few tech podcastes. I think that's the, and then some people from the community

there too. So people from the discord who raised money, like did some of the fundraising stuff. They're there. So it's basically you've got gamers, really discord members and a couple of really podcast hosts, loads of gamers shout out to the gamers. They're going to rise up. Yes, you know, as always. Gamers rise up. We have some follow up. Okay. First off, I would just like to give a shout out to

new listener Diggie. Diggie who wrote in discord and said, I listened to Connected for the first time ever this week and was mostly entertained but lost. It's a win for me and I'll keep listening. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you Diggie for it for starting. You know, sticking with us and listening to the show, I understand that there's a lot of like at this point inside jokes and things and references that maybe could, you know, maybe somebody should put out a, maybe somebody should prepare

like a compendium. Like a, a read me for the podcast. Like a read me like a little connector that in sickle pdf or something. That like the, as Emma says in the discord, the law. Yeah, there should be someone needs to put together a law document for the show. Because I think even last week or the week before we were talking about the idea, I think it might have been during TGTally and which is taking a break this week because Steven's here. Because obviously

Steven, these TGTally more than anyone else. Obviously. Obviously. We were referencing the fact that this show must be like impossible to start. But turns out, Diggie found it possible. So shout out to Diggie, you know, yeah, yeah, be like Diggie. Yeah. Just get started. I'm going to close the loop finally on my Craig, what did Craig Federiggie say it? Follow up from the last two weeks. Obviously, the person to help me was I just go to David Smith, who texted me the other day to say, I found the

clip that I think you were after with Apple using training data. It was in the 2016 WDB DC live talk show of 53 minutes and 19 seconds into the episode. Craig was talking about mountains. A lot of trees. Okay. So he says it turns out if you want to get pictures of mountains, you don't need to get it out of people's personal photo libraries. We found out we could find some pictures of some mountains. We did tough detective work and we found them. It was like, it was making a joke,

but that's the idea of they don't need people's photos. They're just datasets. They could buy. And that was what I was talking about. And that was what they ended up doing. So thank you underscore for that. Finally, you know, I tried myself using this and I couldn't do it, but it's really on the other school. Are you at peace now? This is you found what you were looking for with this. Yeah. Okay. Good. We're no longer Mandelord. Okay. It's a different thing. Yeah. No more.

What's going on? Mike, what's going on with fine warring cases? Oh, yeah. So fine warven may be gone. It seems so there were fine fine warven cases, potentially on the way out. Lika Kosutami is a Twitter Lika who had some good stuff about cases in the past, which is just hilarious. It's like very niche. I am a case Lika. They said that it seems like there's one more set of colors left that like one more seasonal color set that they're going to do, but then that's going to be the end

of the one final outing for the fine warven lineup. And then it's done forever. That's the end. That's the word. I guess what was left in the in the supply chain. Yeah. Maybe Apple would just like, you know what? Just paint them pink or something. Do anything. But I guess like they got this one, you know, they're working on it. But yeah, it seems like they're going to do something else. I mean, I saw somebody saying that maybe like Alcantara might be an option because it's another like

pseudo leather. I think they need to just give it up and just do all silicon. That's what I think. I'll just do just do, you know, plastic leather or something like it's it's fine. Yeah. But the problem see the problem is that though is this is I'm going back to what exactly I was talking about for all of them. Sorry for repeating myself. A lot of the plastic leather's, pleathers, they are not good for the environment. And so like at the something point you might

as you go back to leather again. Yeah. And like this is this is the thing. It's not just about like replacing leather for the sake of replacing leather. They're trying to make a more environmentally friendly case. And a lot of these things out there are not great. And so like Josie says in the chat, silicon feels weird because it's plastic. My assumption is that Apple have a process where they're able to use recycled materials for the cases. Otherwise, they wouldn't do them. Like,

I think that's kind of where they are right now. I think Apple at some point, while they like the money, would prefer to be able to commit to their environmental pledges because that's important for them for one reason or another. Yeah. I guess I have a I have a MagSafe stand for you that I saw on the verge. I was looking at this pictures and I am so tempted. It is just a plastic stand that looks like a Game Boy Advance SP that you can put a MagSafe into and charge your phone on a Game Boy.

Oh, this is so nice. Does it actually have a MagSafe park inside or do you need to provide your own? I prefer that providing your own ones because then you get the good MagSafe, you know, rather than unless they do the whole thing. My beloved cube does the speed that I want in my anchor cube. But there you go, Federica. I thought that this would fit for you. This is totally my car. Oh, and it's made by a logo, of course. A logo make loads of this kind of

stuff, right? They make like they made Mac ones and stuff like that. They have like on their website right now. They have like an old Game Boy stand for Apple Watch charging. You can get a case, silicone case for a plug that looks like a Game Boy. Yeah. I used to have the, what was it made by a logo? I think a case for my AirPods Pro that looked like an Nintendo Switch or something. Yeah. At some point I had that. I think it was a logo,

but maybe mistaken. They make loads of this kind of stuff. It's a niche little thing to make. I like it. Meta Ray bands are getting cooler all the time. Oh yeah. And I just bought a pair. Oh, okay. But there's a lot of happiness that happens. But there's a, so I've been keeping an, I've been literally keeping an eye on this for a while. But there was the issue. So before we talk about the news, just let me contextualize here. Yeah. I think this is a really interesting

product because first of all, it's sunglasses and it's Ray bands and I like the look. But also, as I mentioned before, like I'm very intrigued by this idea. Same as I said for the Humane AI pin, like this idea of having a camera that allows me to record stuff like moments with my dogs at the park, for example, without having to pull out my phone. I'm very intrigued by this category. And also these are actually pretty decent Bluetooth speakers it seems like. So I've been meaning

to purchase them for a while. But the Italian Ray band website is so weird because there's no mention whatsoever of getting a prescription version. There's a link in a support page buried in another page that says just go to a, I don't remember, some kind of like, optic center with like a specific name. Turns out it's an American company that has retailers like only in America. So like it doesn't apply to Italy at all. And so I started thinking about

this, like I literally thought about this for like the past month. I was like, how am I going to do this? Like I need to use prescription if I want to drive with this glasses. And then I had an idea. So I emailed my friends at Lenzoloji. This is a company based in the UK that provided me in the past for prescription lenses for my X-ray glasses. Remember those months ago? Oh yes. Yeah. I used the Lenzoloji, great UK based company. So I sent them an email yesterday.

I was like, hey, so I want to do this. I want to buy this Ray band meta in Italy. Can I ship this to you? And can you apply prescription sunglasses for me and then ship them back to me? And they were like, yeah, totally. We can do this. Just here's our address. Just buy the glasses. Send them to us and we'll calculate the total for the lenses that you want. And then we'll ship them back to you. And so yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I put in an order for the basic model

of the wafer Ray band meta. And as soon as they arrive, I'm going to unbox them, make sure everything is okay. Package them up again. Send them to Lenzoloji in the UK. And then wait for the glasses to come back with prescription lenses, which apparently I cannot get in Italy in any official way. Right. Did you buy the Ferrari ones? Oh, no, I did not. Did you say the Ferrari ones? I saw that I saw them this morning. I was like, no, I'm I'm not going to do that.

They're in a limited edition Ferrari. They're blue because Ferrari is doing a whole blue thing right now. Yeah. Now I'm going with I went with a standard black free. What I find frustrating because I was looking at these two today is like all of the product imagery shows these like semi translucent ones, which I know you can get. I think maybe in the states, but you can't buy those on the UK website. But the imagery is all over showing the semi-translucent

ones, which are not like the are those the transitional lenses? No, they have like the actual body of the Ray band you can see into it. They're like, oh yeah, oh, the translucent from frame. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. Yeah, I just got the standard. Well, I'm excited to hear what you have to say about them. There's a couple of things. So one, they got official Apple music support. That was why I finally decided I got to do it. Just,

yeah, Apple. The reason I want these is also the reason I'm not buying them right now, I think. So they just got support for Meta's multimodal AI. So you can look at something and I think you say like, hey, Meta, look at this and did it. And it takes a picture, uploads it. I think via your phone, probably. And then tells you what you're seeing. So I'm going to give a couple of quotes from Victoria's song over at the verge. Song says to me, it's the mix of a familiar form

factor and decent execution that makes the AI workable in these glasses. Because it's paired to your phone, there's very little wait time for answers. It's headphones. So you feel less silly talking to them because you're already used to talking through earbuds earbuds. In general, I found the AI to be the most helpful identifying things we're out and about. It's a natural extension of what I do anyway with my phone. I find something I'm curious about. Snap a picture and

look it up. Provided you don't need to zoom really far in. This is a case where it's nice to not pull out your phone. And I've also included in the show notes, an Instagram reel that Cleo Abraham made that just show like a good example of the kinds of things you could use something like this for. Where I just think it's at the moment, I think that the meta-raybans are the best realization of any of this kind of product. I haven't used them, but I'm even including something like

division pro. They have a very simple set of things that this thing does and it looks like it does them really well. And people like it. And it looks good because the thing that is the most surprising is these legitimately just look like a pair of raybans. There's nothing weird about them. Yeah. So that's why I'm like I'm a very intrigued, but it's just a pair of raybans and they have the cameras and the microphones on the speakers. But otherwise you're just wearing sunglasses.

And you know, nobody thinks their sunglasses are weird. And it seems to be that kind of tech that's like wearable but doesn't make you look like an idiot and also is mostly stays out of the way. Like I'm going to use this like mostly like when I'm when I'm I like to take long walks with the dogs at the park just by myself with the dogs when serious at work. And you know, I just listen to a podcast, listen to music or call my mom or just to take videos of my dogs.

But especially when I have like, you know, I'm handling two dogs and I need to pull out my phone. Like it's inconvenient. And so having basic access to those functionalities via sunglasses, it seems pretty neat. So I'm looking forward to them. Peter. But yeah, the thing that I didn't mention is this multimodal AI is just in the US right now. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, this is the thing where I have my eye on it. Like I think I'm I'm very

interested in getting a pair of these. I think I need a pair of sunglasses. So the next time I get a pair of sunglasses, I'm probably just going to buy this because I like I like the way for a style anyway. And so maybe I'll just go for this. And even if I just use them to take photos on my next vacation, like I'll be happy. But I want the other features that this thing seems to have. So it seems pretty cool. Peter in this court said for the record, you can go to an

optometrist in Italy with the glasses and ask them to change the lenses. Yeah. I mean, they're just gray band lenses like any optometrist should have those. I could just order the lenses and go to an optometrist and say, Hey, here's the lenses. I don't even think you need to order them. And you could just go to an optometrist in Italy and say, can you put lenses in these? They're just gray band lenses. So it provided the same sizes, which I assume they are. I expect that any

optometrist in Italy would have gray band lenses. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to receive the glasses. And then I'm going to go to the there's an optometrist basically in front of my house. So I'm going to go down there and be like, Hey, can you actually change any any if the answer is no for whatever reason, I will use lensology because I have a backup plan. But that is very that's a very good suggestion because like it should be it should be relatively

trivial for them to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll just need to order them with my prescription if they don't have a you know available. Yeah. Those types of lenses. But that seems easier to do than do the back and forth with the UK's. Because I think like that gray band they just pop them in and out like a I don't think it's like particularly complicated. Cool. Well, worst case scenario, I do have a backup plan. But yeah, thank you Peter. That's actually a much more reasonable

suggestion. So yeah, we'll see they should arrive next week. I'm excited about to hear about that. We also got some first impressions of the rabbit R1. We're talking about this over the last couple of weeks. I'm just going to happen. I'm going to read a couple of quotes and a couple of things from David Pierce's hands on at the verge. He says where humane's AI pin feels like a carefully sculpted metal gem. The R1 feels like an old school MP3 player across to the fidget spinner.

He says that like it's a fun little toy. It does some interesting stuff. It still has some of the same lag issues that the AI pin does. But the fact that it has a screen which shows loading animations and stuff makes it feel better. But similarly to the AI pin, the rabbit R1 is missing tons of features that have been already demoed. And Pierce says so far this thing seems like it's trying to be less like a smartphone killer or more like the beginnings of a useful companion.

We don't have full reviews yet. I'm expecting the review will not be glowing. But I think when I originally read this, I thought maybe could at least be better than the AI pin. But then I saw this thing about a virtual machine which people seem upset about and I don't understand it. I am sorry, but I cannot take this product seriously if all it's doing with the apps is running them in a virtual machine. So can you explain to me? I don't understand. So the idea would be that

you don't actually have the apps running on this device. You have a virtualized environment. Like say it's running VMware or Parallels or something. And you log into your accounts on that virtual machine. So there's like a Mac Mini or a PC somewhere in the rabbit cloud. And it's running the virtual machine for an operating system. It could be Windows or Mac OS or whatever. And you're logging into those apps, Spotify,

majoring I believe. You're logging into those apps with your credential on those virtual machines with like no clue as to what kind of security practices they have in place. And this to me just smells like amateur hour. And also like a really serious potential security risk. Like you're asking people to log into their accounts with credit cards on file, for example, on a virtual machine somewhere that's then streaming down data to the R1. Like no, thank you. I am not doing that.

No, no, absolutely not. And there's actually a a good hub repo called rabbit scam. I don't know how accurate this is. Oh, it seems like the huh, interesting. So real time follow up. That repo is gone. It's no longer on GitHub. Good. Good. So going great. So I actually did check out the repo a few minutes ago. So this person reverse engineered the rabbit R1 code and found that all they were doing was talking to a VM in the cloud. And there wasn't actually no sign of the large action model

as the R1, as the rabbit folks called it. It's all it was basically just running a bunch of, what was the name? They were running essentially a bunch of like browser scripts instead of like actually automating anything. I don't recall the name. It was like a browser script in technology. Yeah, nothing too fancy. And it was mostly talking to a VM. So and the verge, by the way, the verge also confirms that it's running the apps in a virtual

machine. And also David Pierce is concerned about the security approach there. So I expect we'll know more like when people are reviewing it. Maybe they'll ask more questions about it. But this is where we are right now with it. Is it seems like a little bit janky to say the list. This episode is brought to you by Jam. If you're a web developer and you work on a team, you'll know sometimes your teammates send you bug reports with very little context. Like maybe

just a text description with no screenshot console logs or user ID. I do this by the way. This is how I report bugs to Stephen. I just say it sends screenshots of things if that or like just like,

hey, this thing doesn't work. But instead of fixing it, you have to go to the person who made the ticket to hunt down the right information or go back and forth over weeks in the ticket comments to find out if it was local storage APIs, the response from a network request cookies at the time the times I'm you're in and it ends up being really frustrating trying to figure out exactly won't work wrong.

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That's jam.dev or you can just click the link in our show notes. Our thanks to Jam for their support of this show and relay FM. So last week we were talking about the, the Phil Schiller said to a, I think it was to a German antitrust hearing or something like that. I think so. People are Apple take no notes. And we didn't believe that that was the case. So we put the call out. We put the call out and we got tons of, many, not tons, many, many connected listeners wrote

in anonymously to share their feedback. And I can personally vouch for two of these. So like some of them would just send into us, but some was sent directly to me. And I think maybe Stephen got one or two as well. And like these are people that I can vouch for them. So I can believe them. So yeah, we have eight pieces to follow up here. So person one says there's a roller apple called an engineering project manager who makes sure that the trains run on time for product development.

They are frequently the ones who take notes at all meetings. So they know what needs to be done, who needs to do it and when it needs to be done by. So point one, there's people in every meeting who were taking notes. Right. So that's the first part. So if you're not doing it, someone is, which makes sense, right? The project manager has to keep track of what everyone says they're going to do. How on earth are they going to do that with their not taking notes? Like this is

just the way that teams work together, right? So two, I work at Apple and take notes in every meeting for my own use. There's also almost always someone else specifically assigned to take notes, which is probably the engineering project manager, right? If not a minute's person. Person three, yes, Apple employees take notes in meetings. There's a particular type of person that I hate. The people who lead regular meetings like weekly project update meetings and don't

have an agenda or take notes to send out in minutes afterwards. I don't go to their meetings because they waste people's time when they have no structure. I mean, this just sounds like corporate meeting culture. So this is exactly what we were saying. Like I would not believe that Apple does not work like every other business in the world that there are people that take notes and people that don't and the people that take notes are effective, right? Person four, people absolutely take

notes to Apple. I mean, I don't for the most part, but at the very least our project manager emails out brief notes after every meeting. There's certainly no policy against it and I've never heard of such a thing. Okay. All right. So at what point do we start believing that Phil Schiller personally never too can he know? I actually in a minute there is, let me jump to this one. So person seven wrote in to say the quote, no notes thing was the case with the old guard. This was for taking

meet notes and for having notes in presentations. The sound of pencils was considered unacceptable. I know. But this is changing. Not only do people take notes in all meetings, usually people even have teleprompters now for their presentations. So like this was a Steve Jobs thing for sure. They have gone from a vibes based product direction to teleprompters. That's a great improvement.

Okay. Look, I think this is this is exactly the thing that we expected was the case was like Steve Jobs had some weird ideas about note taking and then people who have been there for long enough kind of just got used to the way that he does things, but that doesn't mean that it's good or whatever. It's just not the way that people walk now. Yeah. Person five said I've taken notes in basically every single meeting I've ever been in, including once with the higher apps. And so does everyone else.

It's kind of weird if someone isn't there you go. And I know person five. This is one of the ones that sent to me and I know the kind of people that they meet with. And so like you know maybe Phil's not taking his notes, but there are notes taken in meetings with people. Maybe Phil never noticed that that notes were being taken in his presence. He just doesn't know what he doesn't know

what note taking is. No, Phil is going to listen to this episode and be like his whole his whole life is going to flesh before his eyes and be like, or everyone's taking notes around me. Because he's like, what's up? They all of you. You all were taking notes for the past 30 years and I never noticed. Person six, I am an individual contributor at Apple. I don't know what that means, but they say we absolutely take notes during meetings, but we do not keep detailed minutes.

Often the organizers or presenter or someone from their team will jot down all the action items that need to be revisited or key decisions that were made. We don't capture discussion details usually as they're not as useful later. These notes are frequently emailed to meeting participants sometimes entire discussions happen only over email. Okay. Somebody Zach in the chat says, individual contributor means not a manager. I have never heard of this phrase. This may be something

that's popped up in the last 10 years that I've been out of the corporate world. Individual contributor. Isn't everyone? So I guess it just means employee. I guess, but that is a very weird phrase to me. It's common in software development apparently. It still doesn't help me. I understand that this is being proven to us that people say this, but I don't know why you would use that phrase. Yeah. So Kyle says it also means a person who does not have any direct reports. Again,

an employee. I don't understand. Never mind. There was already a word in the English language for yeah, and then we're using two words again. That's corporate culture though, right? Like creating terms and phrases where there were already terms and phrases, but we have new ones. Hey, here's here's a hot take for you. Is corporate culture and corporate language actually bad for the

environment because of carbon emissions from people's mouths? Possibly. And finally, person eight says my experience is most meetings have a shared document usually quip or confluence, in which someone keeps track of what was discussed. Although there are often meetings without any notes taken such as demo sessions, but individuals are free to take personal notes as they please. So let's let's I think we can put it to rest that people do take notes at Apple. Most people

seem to take notes at Apple and it doesn't seem to matter who you're meeting with. Maybe Phil Shillet isn't taking his own personal notes, but there are notes of the meetings that fills in. Yeah. Yeah. Phil, you should have taken some notes and you should have you should have noticed that people around you were taking. He doesn't know. He has no idea. Phil's never taken a note. Doesn't take him. And I may if I may feel if you're listening to this,

the notes app is pretty good. Yeah, check it out. You make a good one. Yeah, I can't wait to see what you do with it, Phil. This did make me want to ask how how we're taking notes right now. I see your notes in the documents. So I'm going to come to you second. I think maybe I shouldn't start with you. So for me, my note taking right now happens in three places. So Apple notes. Apple notes is like where I put all my little bits of text, all random stuff,

and it's also where I keep links for a show to prep and stuff like that. But Apple notes is the place that I usually go to first. Unless it's something to do a cortex brand where everything goes in notion, everything. Okay. And so because that I just like that, it keeps it nice and sequester

and I'm able to like link everything together and stuff like that. But then I also take a lot of physical notes, which I use my sidekick note pad for mostly for my note taking because I like physical notes like for meetings or just for like when I'm working at my desk if I'm on a call or someone I'll take physical notes. So that's kind of me. How are you taking notes right now? I'm going to channel my inner CGPGray here with you Mike and me like what are notes?

Why? What is it about my life that people keep saying this to at me? You know what I mean? I have multiple people now. Just keeps what are notes really? Like I don't understand what's hard to understand. No, no, no, we're not making this about you right now. Right. Okay. Right. Right. No, but really, this is something that I'm struggling with like for real. So my thing is I've thought about this for the past few weeks. We touched upon it in the

obsidian episode of App Stories with John. The thing is I've realized something about my selfies that I don't really take notes. What I do is I take notes that become articles, I take notes that become podcasts show notes. But I've realized that it's been a what like I don't really take notes that stay notes. That's my thing right now like this realization that I've had. But that feels sent. Most of my notes are notes to become a thing. Like it starts as a note but

will become something else later on. Like I kind of see notes as a like a transient place. Like right. And no is either going to become something or I get rid of it. Like and they don't just stay forever is like this little text. Right. So that's exactly what I try to explain to John. And that is like a huge change for me over the past six months has been my embrace of the inbox in the things app my task manager. I am I guess I'm using that for notes. Like just be over the past

six months. It's become a habit for me. Just anything that I find and that I'm like oh this looks cool. I want to deal with it later or oh this is nice. I need to remember it like it goes into my things inbox. I have a recurring reminder in things every two days review my inbox. So every two days I go there and like okay what did I save and I'm going to maybe just like okay this is something I need to buy. I'm going to buy it right now or maybe this is something for later.

It needs to go into a project. So I guess the inbox is a place for some of those transient notes. But like some people would say well no those are tasks. Those are not notes. Those are tasks that you're then sitting down and following the duty methodology you're now processing your inbox. And I'm like okay so maybe those are not notes. And and therefore I am left with this thought of like I use obsidian and I really like using obsidian. I do have some like long term notes.

Usually like thoughts about side redesign or something. But like mostly my obsidian is just outlines and drafts of things I need to turn into articles eventually. Yeah that's a note to me like for me like a note is a piece of text that something will happen to later on either it's you know could be like a phone number or like an address that I've just taken down in a note because like I didn't I couldn't put it in the place it was supposed to go.

Like it's always kind of like it it lives in a place and then it becomes something else or it goes somewhere else. You know like I take a bunch of notes about a project that I'm walking on and then that those notes become the project right like it's just like a temporary spot. Okay so I guess then I'm using obsidian and I'm using the things inbox especially with my own shortcut things box that I shared a few months ago in club Mac stories.

I'm personally using that a lot like it's on my own screen. Yeah yeah that's what yeah the thing box it's nice place to be. I would just say Joe as you put this so perfectly Mike is creator of notebooks everyone in Mike's life questions the mere existence of notes. Yeah maybe that's the sort of vibe you're giving off like you as the creator of notebooks and everybody around the place. What are our notes Mike? Yeah what is it then I could just

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number one psswod dot com slash connected don't let security slow your business down go to one password dot com slash connected thanks to one password for the support of this show and relay FM so Stephen isn't here as we mentioned yeah but he left us something in the document it says don't

click this until you're alive should we click it okay we are live so we should click it okay I've clicked it I've got to android authority oh my god no no god damn this guy yeah report sam song phones are developing a green line issue after software

it's it trolled us from far away this is this is like the Stephen version of a rick roll like a green roll like what would it be like I don't know oh that was that was a waste of I was excited for this I you know when I thought I thought we bought a new computer that's why I thought

there was a waste of time Stephen not thank you oh what is the opposite of thank you but well we cannot say what we can't say on show I think but you know it sounds like thank you at least yes you know moving on let's talk about because

Stephen's not here now we can talk about video games yes I wanted to check in with you actually because on last week's episode you installed alt store oh yeah I did and I there was something I didn't ask you because I know that delta and it clip is the clipboard manager on

or on old store is there anything else on old store no no it's okay nothing else nothing else and for context I am using the us upster version of delta but I am using obviously clip clip from alt store and man clip has been has been a game changer in the past week to the point where it's

it's it's earned a spot on my home screen I'm actually thinking about putting it in the dock and like it's one of those things where you where it makes you realize how did I go all these years without this functionality it's it's copy and paste level of a game changer for me like

now whenever I copy something uh identification pops up and I'm like yeah I want to save this and I'm coming back to this in a minute like it's been especially useful for like research like we talked about this in the pre-show researching models that I may check out to replace my studio

display there's the whole story in the pre-show where can people get the pre-show mic get connected per.co thank you so I was comparing different monitors and I was copying the model numbers of the monitors I wanted to check out and before I would have to like okay copy this

model number but then I also need to copy another one but first let me save this in like and I message to myself or somewhere in the notes app but now no I'm just copying the things that I need confirming the clip notification and then I'm going back to clip and I find all the things

that I copied it's like it's so much easier than before um I do wish that clip had some like all of these like both delta and clip and alt or they seem pretty bear bounce to me like clip doesn't have any shortcuts integration for example I would like to have some shortcuts actions

for clip where I can like do things like get the latest uh you know 10 items from my clipboard and merge them together like that sort of thing I wish that I could do sometimes um I get like random clip pop-ups like religions uh for like your your clipboard changed and it actually didn't

so I think it's a combination of bugs with the clip app but also I realized that universal clipboard oh that's what I was going to be my guess yeah yeah so if I copy something on my mic right now like I'm copying something and notification pops up on my phone

isn't that pretty cool though in a way like it's not doing what you put that's now like it is a universal clipboard yes yes it's very cool uh and I guess maybe the downside is that it may lead to some of these phantom activations for clipboard changes but it's okay I will happily

live with that trade off if I can have a clipboard manager on my phone can you imagine if it was giving you that like that pop-up do you remember it was that like remember when we had that pop-up like that came up on the phones for a while like with every time you used a clipboard and it would

pop up on the top of the screen yes yes you do not but you do get that pop-up solution of it but it's not as bad as it was on the vision pro on the vision pro whenever you copy something there's that pop-up and there's no way to say turn it off uh at least in the current version of vision

OS so yeah uh but now no other updates from out store and no third party sources yet that I've seen okay let's talk about Delta yeah so Delta is the emulate it came out last week show um I have been putting an immense amount of time into nice Pokemon on my iPhone which I will tell you

right now is one of the greatest things has ever happened to me like I love it I like one of the things that I'm noticing I've put 16 hours into a Pokemon heart gold hmm which I realize I only played once yeah me too actually I think and like people always say

that like hot gold is maybe the best game so I'm having a great time playing through it right now um and it's also a bit of good test of an upcoming app from friend of the show Ben McCarthy called ketchup yes yes a absolutely beautiful yeah I'll put a link in the show notes we're gonna have a

review on Max stories tomorrow it's excellent utility if you're a Pokemon fan bad the band did some incredible work to parse the millions of lines of data that you know uh involve hundreds of Pokemon from multiple generations yeah incredible work it's really amazing I'm gonna put a link

in the show notes to to Ben's uh threads account because I know they'll be posted about it there yeah yeah but also look out for the review on max or is it yeah it comes out tomorrow is recorded on the 25th but I've been testing it out and it is superb I've used a lot of these apps in the

past like this is the one so it's been you know it was funny when Ben sent it to me I was like oh it looks really nice and like I gave them some feedback but I was like I don't have a use for it right now then I start playing Pokemon I like let's go baby I need to know what's the moves from

my red garrot I'll see you know like someone's gonna tell me uh so I'm having a great time like that but yeah I got the razor kishi ultra controller nice nice okay I am on your side you mentioned this on unwinder think the idea of having a controller that could hold the iPhone in portrait

ah I have something for you Mike okay uh so go to this link it's called the joy phone it's uh it's a 3d printed attachment for joy cons that you can place to the sides of your phone in portrait mode I yeah so I had to have John buy them from me because they were not shipping to Italy

but maybe they were shipped to the UK so that's the link the joy phone I've seen a bunch of people on Reddit over the past week or so come up with similar designs and this seems to be the better one so far I will say though at least for playing because I'm playing an Nintendo DS game right

um using the razor kishi in landscape is really nice because delta just gives you the two screens next to each other yeah but they're put side by side whereas for like the DS it's supposed to be one above the other I know but it's more it is more comfortable it's good enough though in like

a landscape or yeah and like the kishi is a great controller I mean it's it's also this controller it can natively extend to put an iPad mini in it oh yeah that's just kind of cool yeah the kishi is nice it's got great buttons the whole effect and all that kind of stuff uh something else that

I was doing which was awesome uh I was playing with my on my vision pro because you can download the the iPhone app yeah uh I was playing pokemon with a controller while also watching a youtube video while in an environment huh dude it was amazing it was incredible like and all of its kept

in sync using delta sync of a drop box which is it works but you have to it's just one of these things where like make sure you have uploaded and then make sure you've downloaded to save right it's not hard but it's like it's it's all it's honestly better than steamsync

not a high bar um so I wanted to bring something to the show so I don't know if I sent you this link a few days ago I don't know if any of our listeners are familiar with it so there's this fork of delta called ignited that seems to be like based on delta um and then like the there's

uh the developer has been working on it for over a year and there's and it's still in test like beta mode I believe they're working to release it on the app so soon uh but there have been like over 50 updates for the uh iraqa is a patreon uh membership there've been over 50 updates to the

app so I signed up out of curiosity and it seems to be based on delta like it's got the structure of delta I'm not sure what the deal is between delta and ignited like if there's some kind of like a actual collaboration or deal between them I don't know the details I just know that ignited is like

the power user version of delta essentially if I so now I've been playing so much in delta right uh no it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because the gba in later is always saving the files in a specific format that is gba universal uh like so like it's saving it to my rom file no

no it's save it's creating a separate dot sa v file uh that you can actually take that uh dot sub file and put it on your mac or something and keep playing there like it's totally fine yeah yeah yeah i mean like where i'll find it i'm sure it's saving it's just long long press on your

game and say export save file I think oh so I would do it in delta and so I in delta and it gives you a dot sa v file and you can take that and use it anywhere and you're like about ignited like something uh i think it's i think it's it's got a better UI like the the the default theme is really well done i think it has it's it's kind of difficult because like there's a whole documentation page that i still need to read i think what it does offer is um a lot of like quality of life features

like better messages whenever you start playing a game like it's there's an easier way to access the emulator manual there's like a native screenshot functionality there's a way to apply themes and controller um skins to specific games like there's a lot of it's it's it's the i don't know how to

describe it like it's the i cab of delta okay you know yeah okay uh and it's frequently updated i mean to be fair delta has been delta i stayed the same for the past few years it's and i think Riley considers maybe delta feature complete and this is like a like something based on delta that

continues to add options for for like for gavers even if Riley considered that the case surely that's changing now like if you if you have been like it's still top three most downloaded app in the UK here and i assume it's the same in the us like you must have gotten enough feedback by now that

there are some features that you thought you might add right like even though you maybe thought you wouldn't otherwise i i i i hope so i hope that's the case because but yeah it's cool to see this version of delta with more power user features and and and frequent updates and yeah i mean it

doesn't really matter uh you can just you can take your games and your saves and you can just move between emulators that's the beauty of emulation you can do that um i wanted to mention a couple of other things Mike yes um so i am in the process of of i think my so i'm working on this

project to uh i've been digitizing my gain cube and Nintendo Wii collection um actually scanning my own discs and ripping my own CDs and the mini discs from the gain cube uh so i'll have more on that soon because i i do want to play some game cube games um but um in terms of delta and ios emulation

i actually would like to start with super Nintendo emulation first um before gba because i also want to play Pokemon right but first i think i want to play some super Nintendo games and specifically i've been itching for the past couple of years to replay uh chrono trigger and so i am waiting

for a it's called the open source cartridge reader uh this is a uh uh it looks like a crazy device it's like a PCB board with a bunch of um card readers uh on top i i got it from this company saved the hero builders uh it's made in japan and it's a board that allows you to plug in uh

NES uh super Nintendo Nintendo 64 um Game Boy and Genesis cartridges onto this board and digitize the contents of the cartridge uh onto your computer so i will be scanning my own super Nintendo games that i still have in my mom's place uh but of course as you can imagine i am struggling

in terms of finding a copy of chrono trigger that doesn't cost a kidney so uh that will be interesting because i am really making a point like i and i do feel much more comfortable knowing that in an emulator i am playing my own stuff like i don't know something that makes me feel nice

makes me feel good about it so i need to find a copy unfortunately i never owned chrono trigger um when i was a kid and when i did play chrono trigger as a kid in an emulator 20 years ago i didn't have any ethics and now i do uh i guess you know i was younger without anymore also it's like yeah

piracy whatever no like now i need to find a copy of chrono trigger so i will keep you posted and i will be playing that in delta when the time comes you know emulation and those kind of stuff it's interesting and weird and odd but for me i do feel like it's if you own the game

it's fun to your game yeah yeah i don't subscribe to the idea of like i'm buying a license to play the game like i know that that's what they put in the legal documents i just i don't find unacceptable if you're physically on the object it's yours and arguably i would say if you if you

downloaded a game as a file like all the remember a few years ago when uh hedeo kujima released pt the demo on playstation and then with the whole conami thing went down and pt was removed from the playstation store but people hand on to the pt downloaded file and there have been there's

a whole community of people who like uh re-released pt or like modded pt or recreated the pt demo for public release you know on the internet and i think yeah i absolutely agree like if you if you purchase something and you either have a physical object or a file in your possession

it's yours nobody can take that away from you don't believe the licenses we're not legal professionals no but this is how we feel it's it's good life advice yes i am you know this is no shade like you know there are a lot of i've some of my favorite games of all time

or iphone games like threes is up there right like it's even one of my greatest games all time but you ain't shut to touching pokemon man like some of these some of these Nintendo handheld games like they are next level kind of experience and being able to play those on my iphone being able to

on my commute home play pokemon is incredible it's incredible and i really wondered what the experience would be like with the touchscreen controls and it's fine like it's totally fine you know the one that bothers me with with pokemon games because i know myself is that because you're playing

in the simulator when you're done playing the game you will not be able to transfer those games to spokémon to pokemon home but yeah i never go into home yeah yeah yeah they will always i mean i i do want as i say this i'm just correcting myself i do wonder is it what is it away maybe

well maybe i mean technically you could take the safe file and use a gb operator to injure it back to save into the cartridge yeah i'm having an issue right now where i have a i'm building power it with a cadabra like i can't do anything yeah i can't like i there's no way for me to evolve

this pokemon because i can't trade it with anyone uh see yeah yeah uh gsimulators for sure ignited does they do support local multiplayer so technically you get another i phone and uh have a dina play soul silver and you think that would be possible i all done i think so uh ignite for sure

ignited it does support local multiplayer i because i think i saw it in the documentation but like i mean i haven't tried it but my phone is just like a local multiplayer yeah but i just can't imagine that the pokemon game knows what's going on that that's how i think i think it i think

it does i think if the system is uh just giving it what it thinks i look i look into this for you but i i think i have seen people on reddit mention that they were able to get it to work using ignited and local multiplayer that would be crazy if you if you know that i would love to know that

me i'll check out ignited i i signed up for the um yeah i've signed up for the delta patreon just like i want to give these guys some money like this is i'm just having such a great time with this with this emulator it's fantastic i'm loving yeah and and another one that people should

keep an eye on that's coming up i hope soon it's ps ppp the psp emulator i use that on android it's a really really really good playstation portable emulator uh there's a whole catalog of psp games from again two and years ago at this point i guess uh you know the your gta

liberty city stories or you know your final fantasy tactics uh the word of the lion's like there's a hobby there's a whole catalog of psp games that may be supported without jit that's the thing i don't think yeah yes it doesn't i just checked i just checked it doesn't because it's the thing jit

adjusting time compilation is effectively we'll just say it's it's code emulation like emulating a chip like yeah um stuff that the game cube and the we use power pc processors so it can't run natively so they use what's called just in time compilation um but apple won't allow for jit

with emulators so it seems like we won't get any game cube emulators which i'm so bummed about like i really want to play game cube games on my ipad uh but it doesn't look like that's going to be a possibility which is a real shame no i will say to like i'm looking to picture some like screen

shots here some psp games like psp games don't age in the way that game boy games age no no no the 3d ones don't so but but there's some really cool looking like 2d yeah one of my one of my all-time favorite like niche games from the psp era was a jaan dark

it tells the story of uh of jaan dark the you know from from the middle ages done as it like a final fantasy tathx style game with some magic elements it's a super well done game that never got a follow-up unfortunately and uh that is also one that i i do own a modded psp that i bought

during the lockdown in the pandemic and that allows me to rip my own umd's if you recall the weird format that psp games were released on the umd i saw someone on threads the other day say like the one of the weirdest things they ever did was to buy and watch the two pilot episodes

of lost on psp umd that's incredible umd was a weird vibe man yeah it was i had uh i watched the eminem movie eight mile on you oh incredible i still have it somewhere in my mom's house i think palms are sweaty yeah yeah mom's spaghetti this episode is brought to you by fit-bodd when you're

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FM. I do have some multiplayer follow up for you. Oh great. Unfortunately by local multiplayer they meant that you can connect multiple controllers to the same device and play on the same device.

So yeah you cannot do apparently there was like one emulator that was like spoofing the Nintendo servers with like a custom DNS to allow for like running their own servers for Nintendo DS online multiplayer but that's a different thing and yeah there's a lot of people asking in the ignited discord about like local multiplayer for Pokemon games but there's no solution yet at the moment. So I may just have to that could ever go at some point. That's a yeah. So I'm not that attached

to it it's just a bit of a workhorse for me right now. So I'm actually kind of surprised that we've gotten this far into the episode without referencing this and iPad event coming. Oh yeah. It's coming in two weeks. So the seventh of May. So yeah we'll be doing Ricky's next week for episode 500 which is very exciting. Everyone's very excited Ricky's an episode 500. It's going to be a video only event on May the 7th at 7 a.m. Pacific. They very kindly invited the media to watch

the video and which is also what they did in October which was funny too. A couple of details about this and we can talk about a bit more. There are multiple logos for like Apple logos in a bunch of different styles that are being shared that are very artistic. It reminds me of I think it was the 2018 iPad Pro announcement. They did a similar thing right where it was in New York and they had a bunch of different artistic interpretations of the Apple logo. I think you got some stickers.

Yeah right. Yeah yeah. I was the one and I did get the stickers yes. And then also reading from 9 to 5 back. Tim Cook shared the artwork for the event with the caption quote pencil us in for May 7th. The executive also headed a pencil emoji to the post and there's a lot of pencil involved in the artwork itself. So I mean we knew it was iPads. They're leaning maybe heavy and I expected on the Apple pencil. I don't know what to read into that if much like I figured

there'd be a new one but like is it going to be the star probably not right. But they're doing it anyway. So yeah it's coming. Well I'm excited about it. I've been really anticipating this. I've definitely got into the point where I'm imagining what a bigger iPad could fit in my life. You know what I mean? Like I'm doing that thing where I'm like oh if only I had a bigger iPad in this moment

because I'm thinking I'm going to get one. I provided that there is a smaller OLED which I'm assuming there will be but I feel like they've they've formed me once you know kind of think of Apple assuming they're going to update the smaller one with the discreet technology I want. Yeah I think I'm pretty sad to the moment with getting the 11 inch OLED. I've been really liking my time with the 11 inch iPad Pro and I don't imagine going back to a big one at this point.

You're going to get your OLED upgrade for your Mac. I'm going to get an OLED Mac years before. Yes. Before. If ever. Yeah. How are you feeling about the event though like are you are you expecting an interesting one or like you know last last event we had was the October event for Macs and people were like oh man it's newsfest because we kind of knew everything and you know the products themselves were revisions. Are you expecting this to be an exciting event in any way?

I think it's going to be more exciting than the Mac one but obviously not as exciting as an iPhone event. I mean obviously or like when they used to do the spring events you know like yeah I think it's going to be better like that Mac event I mean let's face it it was kind of boring you know like it it was a bit of a nothing yeah it was um I mean it was just like a bunch of

revisions right it was fine yeah it was like okay but at least this one it's new at least one new product right with the bigger iPad yep and also we're expecting it like some significant improvements to the iPad line across the board yeah and whenever whenever redesigns of any sort

are involved it makes it interesting yeah and here you're looking at an iPad with a new display possibly a new chassis or sorry a redesign of the iPad itself a reason all about that you know do you really I can't imagine how to make it look just move the slightly thinner bezels and

camera on the landscape side I should that that's enough and thinner right so it's going to be thinner I forgot about the thinner yeah so that's exciting then you're gonna have the redesign pencil possibly like new features maybe a button maybe a gesture who knows but also the

redesign magic keyboard so like those changes because are new and so far they haven't leaked like you haven't seen a mockup of the you haven't seen a leak of the magic keyboard like that's interesting and so that I think will be for sure a nicer event than the Halloween themed

mac one which in hindsight they probably did the Halloween theme thing because there was a like the rest was pretty boring and they like just it up visual they just it up they had a hook for you so they're like oh nice Apple is doing Halloween but yeah I think this one will not have any

funky theme going on it'll just be new products and that's gonna be interesting I'm surprised they are doing a video though like I think we we're all just resigned to the fact that this was going to be punch press releases right and video seems to yeah this video they seem to be the new like

in between they're like this videos if you if you want to follow along to this Pokemon analogy because we were we were just talking about Delta and Pokemon so the press release is is Bulbasaur the video is IVsaur and the keynote is Venosaur right so that's and and so the the the videos are

like that in between for like it's better than the press release but it's not a keynote yeah I mean it's I like it I like it I like I like spicing things up with these announcements for sure I appreciate that you picked the best gem one star to buy the one of course of course

I wear Bulbasaur bros for life Bulbasaur is the absolute best gem one star or there's like yeah people who people who were like people like 30 years ago were like oh I want to have Charis are like those are like those are you know you know you don't want to you didn't want to be

friends with those kids good luck with the first two gyms you know what I mean yeah yeah good and also and also like so there's like the I'm just imagining the chart of people like Bulbasaur was the right choice Charis having Charis are at the end was like the boring like oh I want to be

overpowered kind of choice but good luck with the first gyms like but I do also appreciate the the chaos of people who wanted to have squirrel and blast toys yes so those people I appreciate yeah there I feel like Squirtle is is a refined choice because yes because you know like Bulbasaur

is the right choice to fill like playing the game like that is the correct choice for playing the game Charis are is the flashy one yeah if you decided like no I want Squirtle like I want to I want to have a tough time to start the game and and like and then I want the okay final evolution

yeah I respect the Squirtle choice and let's not forget that you got warped coral in the middle so there's like you know real rough real rough you know the middle evolutions full of effort you know like I feel bad for middle evolutions they don't they don't get

the love you know yeah yeah yeah but yeah iPads okay yeah yeah I mean I'm I'm pretty excited about it I'm intrigued to see what they're gonna do it's weird to have a middle of May product release because you're so close to WBC now you know although that is you know I'm

expecting WBC to be pretty busy this year like they should have a lot of stuff to talk about and also these iPads don't make much of a thing but this really we feel like should have been in March right like this should happen months ago yes but yeah the mid mid May product announcement

and product release is gonna be I mean look in what is usually a quiet time thankful for that right yes exactly yes I agree I want to finish out today by marking an important time which is 15 years of Mac stories you celebrate a couple of days ago April 20th blaze it yeah blaze it I forget

that it's blaze it die congratulations 15 years is pretty pretty massive thank you thank you and I just kind of wanted to get a sense for you for like celebrate hmm like you don't really feel like you did anything yeah no so we did it when we celebrated 10 years we had a whole

like 10 years of Mac stories retrospectives from previous writers yeah and it was fun we did it five years ago and of course you know the whole pandemic thing happened and it's kind of weird to think about that it was five years ago but the thing about me is I don't like to talk about like

myself or like our like our accomplishments too much because like yeah okay I get it we're celebrating ourselves but we did it five years ago and over the past few months I have really what a past year actually because of all the thing we've been working on this site project for a long

time and we've been working on a redesign for Mac stories for an even longer time and that project took up you know even though nothing about it is public behind the scenes it took a few turns over the years and so I was like you know 15 years over the past couple of years we've been working

behind the scenes on new stuff that it's still not ready I don't like the idea of doing once again a whole celebratory thing it's like you know cool let's post it and let's get back to work I'm sure we'll celebrate again at 20 years but I and I also feel like I posted it on mastodon and I got so

many nice messages from people it's so hard-worming to see you know to hear nice stuff from people in terms of like when they started reading Mac stories and maybe they you know they became developers because of Mac stories like that it's so wholesome to see but I don't like to dwell on it

for too long yeah I understand that like in the first five years of relay we made like a big deal out of every for every year and then when we hit five it was like okay yeah and now we're hitting 10 I'm obviously making a big deal out of the 10-year anniversary which is this year yeah and then

I don't know if we'd make a big deal out of 15 maybe yeah like but I see where you're coming from I was like you kind of you could at first you celebrate because you're making it work and then you hit a milestone and then you hit a next milestone and then the real the next big milestone worthy of

that kind of like pump goes further into the distance right I kind of understand that like I always find it funny when like and I think it's just because social media managers need something to talk about like companies celebrating every single year of them being around like it's just like

all right you've been it's for it 77 years like it's not so much more exciting than it was 76 but you know you do you I suppose yeah yeah but obviously I am so thankful that there's still people who read Mac stories and pay attention to what we do and that support us directly or not

like I just appreciate having an audience for our I hope useful and I recognize often weird projects that I especially do because you know weirdness is the spice of life with these things for me and so yeah thank you and but like I said back to work yeah I feel like you know saying

about the support the things that we do like I've been doing a reflect tank right as relay suits we're getting ready to celebrate right like it's the celebration start in July with the live show which by the way we do have some tickets available for the very top section

that I'm reserved seats but if you want to come to our live show in London in July go to relay dot FM slash London there are some more number of tickets to available we'd love to see you there Federico's going to be there we're going to have a great time I'm very excited we've

finished in a bunch of plan and stuff so if you want to come see us and to help celebrate on 10th and a verse here if I see you can come see us in London in July I bumped into a listener in street yesterday told me he was coming to the show nice so that was pretty cool something that

I've come to realize I was thinking about this for you with 15 years and I think about for us where the end would the end of what of the thing that we do I can think about this especially like for the types of podcasts that we make

people don't really do this now they do other things or they don't do blogs anymore people don't make blog people don't write blogs anymore people don't do like confessional tech podcasts anymore in the way that we do them I feel like or at least it's it's what I say is these things appear

less than when we start when we were starting everyone was like every week there was a new blog or podcast appearing on the scene yeah and I feel like now people are focusing their time on YouTube or they're focusing their time on TikTok or Instagram like if you want to be a new creator today

you're focusing on the social platforms the algorithm led platforms because of course like why would you not do that but it's kind of making me realize that we're we're kind of I think at the end or the tail end of the type of content that we make and it's just because we were there at just

that right moment before it shifted and that's just been like a strange thing to think we are are we are next stink species not yet because this thing I know that these things pop up I see people starting new stuff all the time but it is like unless you were there like if you were there 10 15

years ago the scene was very different man that was that was the times yeah I feel so old same but but it was like those days like 20 like 2008 to 2012 yes the days of Twitter Twitter clients when the social networks was so small that you could actually make people really

easily yeah yeah yeah it's and it's like even and I look back on this like sometimes I check out like old Mac sorry articles the the overall vibe was different like talking to the developers how the developers approached the press how I don't know just just the way we worked was different

and so yeah I'm on one hand I do Mr. Stase well you're always nostalgic I mean I think there's so many ways in which it is better now than it was then like you know if really if you were offered to go back you wouldn't but like that's just nostalgia for you you know yeah but but

but I'm not gonna be like one and and I hope this is this kind of vibe that maybe transpires from Macsories and what I do on the shows in general I am nostalgic because it's I believe it's it's genetically you know it's intrinsic to the human species to be nostalgic but I prefer my job now

I got 100 oh my god look what 10 years ago I was depressed as hell right because I couldn't do what I wanted to do you know yeah it's like what I wanted to do 15 years ago or 10 years ago I am doing now and so I think you know it maybe it's something that we should say more often

that like this is what we wanted to do when we get to do it now and so yeah I am nostalgic no I don't think I as six was better than what we have today and yes I prefer what I do now and how I do it now not just because hopefully I'm a better writer and hopefully that I have less

of an Italian accent but just because like the the overall structure and the tech that we have the technology that we have is better now it's more powerful and easier to use and more people have access to it and that's awesome yeah I'm definitely getting into my thankful feeling

more and more as the year goes on and like this idea that I really you're a thankful era my I think this is my thankful era I think I'm in it and like really I'm thinking about the fact that I do feel this way that that we were just at the right time before the types of things that we want to

do became harder to break through or it was just different and I'm just very thankful that we got to where we did at the time that we got there because we did start at the same time like I started podcasting 15 years ago like 14 years ago right but like I just was all over the place

it was this funny thing like I feel like does it create is that I follow that I'm not friends with it's like seems like something was happening in 2010 like that a lot people were starting to do this kind of stuff like around that time yeah yeah and I'm just so thankful that we were where we were

when we were and that our audience found us and they stick with us because I really do believe that the majority of the audience is we have and we've been talking about it a bit on the show recently like there are people that have stuck around like we have a stickiness I think to our shows and

to our blogs and people they enjoy our work and they continue to support us and it's like it's such a great feeling where I don't need to care about an algorithm at all yeah it's all my God yes thank you for saying that like sometimes I get in conversations with people and when I

talk about like what I do and it's like hey what's your job like and so and they start saying so how do you optimize for the algorithm and I just stare at them and I don't and they look at me like I'm some kind of lunatic or something and I'm like it not really the model is different I don't

need to chase that and yeah thank you for mentioning that it's an important point because otherwise I just feel like I would be I would be depressed and and constantly stressed and anxious about and it works for some people and more power to you not like you can find massive success right yes

because like you know I we've the stuff that we do with cortex like I'm I've seen more of these kinds of effects right so like we put the show on YouTube and sometimes the episodes explode but like for me none of that's all additive like I don't care about that I care about like what

are the audio numbers right because they're the like people that have chosen to listen to the podcast right so like that's the thing I focus on most and we have like a baseline number that we hit on YouTube but it goes up and down and up and down and then also with our Instagram account

recently we had like a video that went viral and it's like it's interesting to me to see it but like I don't feel like the algorithm dictates what I do because I have these other outlets to be able to to talk about things you know and like to to share stuff and like we have the podcast to

be able to talk about the things that we're doing and that's where it actually matters to me and all the server stuff is just gravy but if I had to imagine that like my entire audience even the people that are chosen to subscribe was it was dictated by an algorithm I would hate that so much

like our podcast listeners they choose to subscribe to our podcast and then they listen to the podcast because it's in their queue the thought that like and something for this was just so awesome for me was there's been this big hubbub in the wider podcast community about Apple making

a change to Apple podcasts where it stopped downloading every episode if you weren't listening and like the wider podcast community was like oh they're stealing all listen it's like it didn't do anything to us because I'll be the people that subscribe to our shows actually listen to the

shows because they want them like it wasn't a show that they just press subscribe to once and never thought about it and it's like the same with the algorithms like on YouTube and stuff right you press subscribe but then you don't necessarily see all the videos and like I hate that thought like as a

creator it's not interesting to me as time has gone on I have really understood how the fortune that we have is to have people who don't consider us don't consider us like background noise but when you even if you like we don't have millions of readers or millions of

listeners like I don't know MKBHD does or diverge does but what even if you do get like a thousand or five thousand people who sometimes think about you like they're like hey I wonder what Mike is up to or like hey I wonder what Federico has done like when people when think even just

once a month about what you create now that's a fortune and you got to hold on to it because it's a rare thing these days and you don't want to be when you when you have that privilege and that luck to be somebody who doesn't depend on on a real coming up in the algorithmic timeline on Instagram

that's something you got up you got to protect because it's it's precious and uh yeah and it means that when we need help people show up right like you know if you truly value this which we all do uh it means that like when COVID happens yeah and all the advertisers go away we can say please give us money and people do you know and so like yeah that is that's the benefit that's what's so important and yeah I just I value it so much and

you know it's just like looking at the 15 years of Mac stories has just made me think about this stuff where it's like you guys have been around doing your thing and people was you have more people than ever probably reading you now yeah um and it's because the people that go to Mac stories they

know what they're gonna get and they want it right it's as simple as that I mean how what more could you ask for yeah or maybe they don't which is also the point like maybe they don't know what they're gonna get but they know that it's gonna be interesting yeah right so the and that that sort of uh

I guess looking ahead of the future that's my strategy maybe they know like producing content that people maybe don't know what it is but they're gonna be interested in it anyways that's sort of like my recipe for success I hope I hope and if I may pay a compliment to you and John and the team

like I said on threads that you're the best at what you do like the best in the business and and while I think you guys are amazing what I mean is no one does what you do and that's what makes it so great like Mac stories you could say like has competition but it kind of doesn't like

you guys make what you make and nobody else is making that and that's what makes it so great thank you it's the creativity that you have and that that you all continue to work on is what I believe means that after 15 years the the websites better than ever thank you thank you

congratulations to everybody how long has John done half now John John is actually being part of Mac stories for more than half of its life John joined uh eight years ago yeah so yeah over half that's great yeah that's great I love that that's weird though because it looks like he just started

right like it it does feel like it's weird because on one hand it does feel like it just started but on the other it feels like he's been doing this with me forever at the same time let's go I don't know yeah because I imagine and we start completely understand is this idea that like um

how could you even imagine running the slight mountain now yeah right it's like that kind of thing I couldn't I couldn't do yeah no no no no no you would need to go back to being like a personal blog or something like very very different business yeah there's no way yeah

thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of connected if you want to find us online there's a bunch of places you can do that find Federico with he is at the Tici VITICI I'm I'm dropping the the master on service now by the way I don't say it anymore I figure people can just walk it

out because there's threads too right I am at I'm Mike I am Y K E Steven is at ISM H although this is the problem because Steven's a flip flopper on threads he's ISM H86 I guess that's why we still have the two different ones in the show notes at the bottom for this show which Steven

usually does because if you go to ISM H it's not him it's somebody else so ISM H86 on threads he's got to do something about that at some point right I hope so I don't know go to fivetopics.net go to Macstories.net that's the place to be go celebrate you can go check out

my products at Quartex Brand.com if you want longer ad free versions of this show each and every week go to get connected pro.co and you can sign up and we'll appreciate you and we'll be back next week for episode 500 so see we're in our gratitude era man it's happening and it's also

going to be a rickies where we're making predictions for the iPad I'm not ready yet but I've got another couple of weeks to I've got another week to think about it another week I'll work it out we always do thank you so much to our sponsors FitBod one password and Jam but most of all thank you for listening we'll be back next time do it then see you bye for the Riko I'll be with it too papa