Commander Cookout Podcast, Ep 482 - Who's Coming OFF the Commander Banned List?! - PART 2

Okay, so I'm thinking about like freakin' zero band list sidewalk slam.

What the hell's the matter with you? He was the Commander Who Go podcast Episode four two one. Branda here was r We're gonna finish off talking about the band list now in our sme. So, hey Ryan, We're back for yet another whirlwind adventure.

How you doing good? What is going down?

Whole bunch is going down. We got events that we are yet to go to that we have already been to because of time travel to talk about. We got some big things coming up in the future. We got more band list talk plus some input from the nation. But before you get to any of that, we have to thank our official business Daddy's Fusion Gaming Online dot com.

Or soon to be unbanned much better or and I should say, I want to say a special thanks to Pile of Bones Brewing Co.

They are the second coolest thing to come out of Regina. As well as being the official beer sponsor for c CEO Sidewalk Season three available now on YouTube.

Oh Man Sidewalk Slam so fun. Got lots of good compliments on the CEO Lounge after kind after party when we were talking about the game, lots of jokes, lots of compliments on the player intros. If you want to be a player on Sidewalkslam Patreon dot com slash CECO podcast, that's where you go hop on a benefit tiered. There's a couple different levels. They got a bunch of different benefits. Discord Sidewalk Slam, CSU experience coming up. All of those

Yes, we did it, So we're here.

Yeah, pile of bones. I've got some pilot bones for you. We're gonna drink. Yeah, very good. Yeah like that stuff like fusion. CCO Holiday is still in effect even though we're coming into spring. You can probably hear it. I'm on allergy Meds right now? Is spring?

Is there a holiday in spring? Easter?

She's coming Easter? Yeah, it is zombie Jesus Day, baby, Yep, that's it. Okay, So speaking to zombies, zombies, I wanna get right into it. Oh shit, we don't have any zombies on the band list, not a single one action. No, I want to stay on zombies here, but I'm taking it in a different direction. We're gonna be zombies every morning that we wake up in Las Vegas.

Oh yeah, we are. Oh, I hope we get to stay at another weird mansion with like a derelict limousine in the in the driveway.

I bet you there was dead people in that limousine's king bodies and that thing jumped in the middle of a desert.

Was they just left the gas on so that it wouldn't smell the dead people in the limo. And there was a pool and palm trees that were real, which is very exciting to me, and a little like beach set up with a thing. And we're gonna do that all again in Vegas this June. June. Fuck, I'm excited. A desert in June. I hope I'm not the only one that's super pumped for that.

You know what, I definitely have had people say I'm not going to Vegas because it's June. Those people can eat my whole ass.

It's so cool. When you're inside the building.

What you'll have to do, like many a booster box and or booster pack.

Just open it and throw yourself in the garbage.

I was gonna say, swim in the pool. You can go back on the CCO backlog of shorts to find some booster boxes that may or may not have gone for a drink.

Yeah, yeah, so love that. Chlorine.

Planning for the CEO experience, Las Vegas, our biggest show of the year, the biggest magic show of the year has started. It's in the discord. I've made a thread for it called Vegas twenty twenty five. I am going to be collecting names of interested individuals. I'm going to be starting the shopping for a house or houses. Yep.

I get to help with that. It always makes me sense.

We've looked into prices for flights and for us it's not too bad. Not too bad, which is always the biggest expense for us. But if you want to get in on it, get in the discord. If you're a Patreon supporter and not in the discord because you are older than Brando and hate technology. I don't I don't think that that's anybody, But listen. If that's you, send us an email or send us a Patreon message and

Right now, nothing but the best sevens available.

Oh no, the're threes now.

Oh yeah, right, it's gonna be hard to get used to it. Frick three and hit you with some brandology. Three is a much lower number than seven.

Well, you know what, I don't know if.

I'm comfortable calling people threes.

I don't know, man, But it's three out of four still, like in the seventieth percentime, it like three.

Out of five. Well no, but we do, we do in the fiftieth percentime.

Listen, if we have to ask what a five is, we were playing fours, right, So it's basically there in the seventieth percentile. And what's a seven point one versus seven point five? Like, there's threes, that's seventy five. It's the same A bunch of fucking threes.

Yeah, a bunch of threes.

So cocio experience. I'm super excited. I gotta get a TV graphic four. You'd see the TV graphics if you're watching on YouTube, which should be yeah, yeah, okay.

Zombies, Oh we're gonna be zombies.

Yeah, we're gonna be zombies.

I was like, are you gonna talk about a zombie cards? Then I'm really excited for that. Yeah, man, then you didn't.

You know what we missed, Bobby Master.

Sorry, that's the other card I was thinking about yesterday on the pre show when I opened two zombies. I've got a crypt Breaker and a Zombie Master. Those are the two Secret Layer extra bonus fifth cards that I got.

Zombie Master is actually pretty.

Good in old Border foil. Zombie definitely has new arc. They both definitely have.

No Zombie Master has is the one that gives him swamp walk.

Swamp Walk and is a zombie. It turns out as opposed to the other printings of it one plus one Swamplock.

Great in your Gulguri zombie decks where you can just go get a land and you get Erborg, so then your zombies are unblockable. Great when you have Expedition map and you can just go and get your herb Org and make your zombies unblockable. And Erborg is a card that you want to get anyways because the ball coffers. That's right, So math checks out. Zombie Master, he's good in Zombie deck.

Jomby Master good card. Crypt Breaker also actually a good card that I play, but still disappointing. And if you want to know why, it's disappointing.

Watch watch the precio. I'm gonna be a freaking zombie master in Las Vegas. Yeah she is. Maybe we'll go to Freemont Street.

I'm gonna, man, we always go to free Mont Street.

I just stay at the house and drink beer and eat flaming hot doritles because I'm a fucking nerd.

See I go to the I go to Fremont Street and I get kicked out of.

The bar, grinded on by thong wearing Pikachu.

No, he wasn't wearing a thong. He just had three arms the action.

One of those it was not his arm Brando.

Yeah, that's man. That means that his wang was in like the Pikachu arm of the costume, and he somehow managed to articulate it. That's impressive. That is pretty This is a wild places. Yeah.

So the band list the list o case, we talked about a good fair dinking number of good fared Pikachudnkin number of cards. Last week we got all the way down to reoccurring nightmare. That is a band card that you purchased from Fusion Gaming Online like an idiot. Well, maybe it'll get unbanned. We were making a good case for unbanns last week. I want everything unbanned. Turns out the people on YouTube comments and Reddit and Facebook want less things on banned than your good friend Ryan.

Power nine and dick sterity cards and one of the cards that we're gonna talk about today, meaning this one.

Yeah, dude, I want I want to play a freaking even this one.

Don't even say what it does.

But no, not that one.

Everybody knows what I'm talking So the band list and your should be one card.

Yes, and it's that one maybe, and listen, maybe be like three cards.

Oh oh, what are the other two? At that one? What are the other two?

I don't know yet. I haven't thought about it yet. I haven't thought about it yet. But listen, I want to play freaking sidewalk slam with no band list.

How are we gonna do that? We can't can't afford it.

Who do we know that's got freaking power nine? I know a couple of guys that got power in the city.

Uh, there's g Off I think has some let's do it and uh a.

Few jewels got it. We'll get him to ship in the mail.

You don't play magic, no one. Yeah, Jesse spears. Actually I think still has something.

No, he got ready his right before it spiked, and he was like, I'm an idiot. I could have bought a mansion, sold his power for like two hundred and eighty thousand dollars less than what he could have been. Whatever, he's still made like three hundred grand.

Can you can you imagine that? Like that hit to your goddamn?

Oh yeah, he moved, dude, he moved to Poland for like a year, nobody even saw him. I think he was depressed.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what I do, is moved. I don't know if I moved to Poland.

Wow, maybe maybe like check, yes, somewhere they got beer and they drink more vodka.

I'd pick somewhere like pretty freaking cool, that's not too expensive. I do like a Scotland because like I hear that, traveling in Scotland isn't too expensive. Trains trains super and you can stay for not very much as opposed to somewhere like Ireland, where Ireland is very expensive to stay.

And as a tourist, let me ask you something. So you like rain? He likes noo, no clouds, wind, cold, don't go to those places that you just said.

But I live here.

Go to wherever Ruffalos Laniwar Emissary lives. He's our first card.

He lives in the jungles of Peru.

Lani War. Yes, okay, so he's a two to one ELF druid. You might have recognized those creature types as good ones before yeap for green green and has tap ad green to your manipool for each forest you control.

That's obscene.

This guy is banned. He was on the band as a commander list when that existed.

Which is why he is still banned. Now.

Yes, Now, I ask you this. If this guy was downgraded from band and put onto the game Changer's game Changers list as a in the ninety nine of your probably green Black Lathrill ELF deck, does this one guy make that big of a difference? Keeping in mind green is the creature Tudor color and black is the Tudor color.

I think he still would. I would in my head. I think I would leave this band because because we have Gaya's creator on a creature and I think that that's fine, you know what I mean?

And guy's cradle on the game Changer's list.

Yes, like, I feel like we've got a like a we don't need two of these when one of them is probably better and there's a land much like herb Worg that supports it now and you know what I mean, Like, I just feel like this one's fine to kind of just if they printed it today, I'd be like, man, what a fucking dank card. I wouldn't say ban it, but since it's banned.

It also wouldn't cost It wouldn't cost green Green today. It probably cost like green Green two, Green Green four three, Green Green one, and he'd be a three to three something and haste instructible protection from everything damage can't be printed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh. You know what. Raplos to me feels a lot like Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt and Man of Vault. It's like, how much redundancy at the make lots of Green mana

That one cradle.

Yeah, that also like kind of draws you a card.

It's guy's cradle that can find this now and then play this and then flip itself over.

Yeah yeah, Now, I know that all of those things don't cost aren't a land, don't cost one or don't cost two like ruffalos. I know that those things cost like three or four or five or whatever. But this feels like a redundancy that jumps you from two or three mana to like eight or nine mana And it's just another one of those things.

It doesn't just for playing it too, like by the time grieves aside, if you just play this on curve, when you untap and then play a land on turn three, you have six mana.

That's lots.

That's a lot of frickin' mana, especially when it's all colored and if you're playing just green as you would if this was your commander, let's say, ooh, that's that is backbreaking. That is a backbreaking card. And that's why this is probably still if it was non legendary, we could probably unband it, you think, so, I think, so why does that matter? Because it can't be.

Your commander, can't be your command having.

It in the command Zone guarantees you six manna on turn two in virtually every game unless you keep a really shitty hand.

Yes, all you need is two or three lands.

This card is so good you don't need non basic lands in your deck.

Oh yeah, I had actually two questions for you. Is green the color that you play the most basics in your monocolor deck as a percentage of total lands? Yep?

You think because I am, on purpose in my mono red decks play lots of non basics because when I blood Moon and turn them all into mountains, it doesn't hurt me. I don't care. Yes, I all the benefits of having all these lands that do all this stuff, even if it's totally irrelevant to what I'm doing. And what's the worst that's gonna happen. It's blood Mountain.

Yeah, that's it. And the second question is does turning into ra How.

Do you say the Hulk actor's name? Ruffalo? This is Ruffellos.

Thanks you pretty scary? Yep, Ruffalo Lanno warrant Hulk emissary. If we make him not legendary, does that make him better or worse? Command Zone notwithstanding, is he you can't find him with Time of Need, which is your green legendary creature tutor.

It's one tutor you can't find him with. But on the other hand, I guess I could clone him. You can clone him, but let's mix it all of the new clones. Don't give a shit if they're legendary.

True.

In my Coma deck, I think there's seven clones, and I can clone Coma with every one of them.

Oh, you play Ernic his bio duplication, right, I like that one because it gives me flying.

He gives him flying. Alsode with that guy makes a better clone of the thing you're cloning. Yes, makes him better because it flies now. Yes, I cloned Brubak with that before. And milk quadruple Yeah, Mill ten equal.

Mil forty, mill thirteen is like mill fifty whatever. Man, that's like your whole library. You just need to lose something.

I'm not greater.

So you're saying keep him banned.

I think so you only because he's legendary, only because we're not doing a band as commander list. So I would keep him banned just because six mana turn two or turn three. Every single game is just people talking. Oh, the speed of a mana of jule lotis or of a turn one sol ring or whatever.

That's only four mana, that's five man on turn two. This guy puts you at six mana on turn three.

And then eight man on turn four, ten man on turn five.

If you also didn't ramp on turn one, if you have raped, if yeah, if you if you did a like a man of cryptor vault, or if you did, can you imagine like forest mana crypt if it was still legal into signet turn two rufalos after a forest. You've got one, two, three, four, five, I've six seven man on turn two, eight man on turn two, whatever the math says.

And it's not burst manu. That shit just sticks around.

That just sticks around.

And you know what, you could genu wave for ten on turn three.

Hey, that's pretty good.

That's not bad. I used to be eight. But still that's a lot.

This guy being legendary. I hate doing this. It's like getting a purple nurple. I don't like it. But I would say let's leave him banned. If he wasn't legendary, I would take him off. And you know what, I think this is the first legend we've discussed at length. Because if he wasn't legendary, I like he wouldn't be as big of an issue. Maybe that's maybe that's all of them though, right, well, I think.

Most of them are think they're kind of a lot of the other commanders are kind of feel bad commanders. We talked about the one that Leohold counters every spell and Leobold flying Man, and.

No, that's a trust flying man. Leovold is the one that like makes you sit, can't draw.

Oh yeah, uh whatever, yeah, whatever the hell that guy is. And there was the other lady that just ruins your life brave right kind of feel baddie. Rufellos represents my deck is stronger than fucking yours because I have more manna than you do. And that's just it.

And that's the exact reason cited why Manacrypt and Juel Lotus and potentially Man of Vault and and I would ox side that's the reason that all of those were banned.

And I would agree with all of that if you could play them in your command zone, but you can't, so I don't if for Fellows could be just if he was just elf Rufellos emissary Fellos emissary, and it was a non legendary too.

One. Yeah, if he was just Lana War Emissary, which is.

Another card, but you know what, Yeah, that's whyssary. But I think that that would be a very powerful card. I think that people there'd be lots of discussion about it, and people would be talking about it in the same breath as things like Dockside. But I think that you could still get away with playing it. Yeah, and I would last week if you listened, I was on team like leave docs banned, like whatever. I'm fine with it, and I guess he would be held in the same

Yeah, next card here, this is the one. I actively do not like this card.

I also, I thought it was hilarious when I read it the first time.

When you were a younger Magic player, and we talked about it last week. It's Shahara's ad.

I took it to the dude bros. Yeah, and everybody around the table. When I said Shahia's ad, They're all like, oh my god, except for the new guy was like, what Shaharaes that doing? And we told him that sounds fucking awesome, and then we explained to him why it's not awesome and he was like, oh yeah, Like I still think that's really cool. I'll give it a read, but I understand why we ban it.

White White Sorcery players play a magic sub game using their libraries as their decks. Each player who doesn't win the sub game loses half their life rounded up. M Okay, so you take you you leave everything on the table. I'm gonna Coles notes this shit because at the end of this Cole's notes, we're gonna say stays mad, stays man. Okay, you take the remainder of your deck and you put everything that's currently in the game your hand exiled everywhere,

Back to forty. Play another game.

Yeah, the winner of that game. Nothing happens. And then what happens after you just shuffle up those cards into your library again, Like there's so much baggage with this, and then as if like, oh man, the loser of that game losers. The losers of that game lose half their life. And then you go back to the first game, as if there's not already another wrong with that. You freaking take up everybody's time, everybody's space. You don't lose if you lose the subgame. No, you just freaking lose

And let's not even go into the fact that anybody who's gonna play this, we all know what they're really gonna do. They're gonna go Shahara is Ad and everybody's gonna go make the face, make the face, and then they're gonna go FOURK, make the face again, make it harder. Then they're gonna go twin cast, and then you're gonna play a sun game of a subgame. I quit, I quit, and everybody's gonna quit the game, and nobody's having a good time. And everybody, Yeah, this card sucks and should

For everywhere, for everyone, for all time.

Yes, it should have a very strong name and a very blatant hometown and it should fucking stay there. Yes, and the town and vill.

If that's a real place, probably it is. It might be Thundering Titan.

Oh, this is a this one and the next one. We're gonna talk about them individually, because they are very different cards. Sundering Titan is a seven to ten that's pretty big for eight colorless. When it enters the battlefield or leaves the battlefield or each basic land type, you destroy a land of that type. This card is absolutely outrageous and I would suggest deserves the banning that it got.

What do you think enters your leaves, choose a land of each basic land type and destroy them. Man alive. Hey, this can get all the lands if you infa flicker it right, Yes, it can get everything because you pick and the things you picked are yes.

Now it is a you have to pick one of each if available, so eventually you will have to start killing your own shit. But like, if you're info flickering of this titan, you're probably doing okay, and it's you're probably gonna stop flickering it after all of your opponent's land are dead.

My question was if one of the base land types isn't present, it says right here, it just isn't fricking chosen, and you continue to sunder.

Yeah, So as long as you're not the only one playing mountains, you're fine.

Yeah.

And if somebody plays something like I don't know, an Herborg or a yav a maya cradle, of growth.

If your land is more than one basic land type, it can also be choosed twice more than one time. Exactly. So if I'm playing like black and you're playing a try land and one of those land types is a swamp, I can choose your swamp and your island if they're the same card, right. So, like, there's so many different options, and it happens on enter and exit, and it's not targeted, and you can't do anything when the ability starts to resolve, Like you can't tap and respond to it once it

There's people out there stand right now, they're saying.

Oh, it's fine a cost. You have to purposely build around it to abuse it. You have to blink it. It's a stacks card. It's actually a win con. There's

It's a seven to ten. It's going to attack into virtually anything and kill it and survive. Or it's gonna block virtually anything, kill it and survive. And I have a deck right now today and it's not necessary a super polished, good blink deck, but I'll bet you in that deck, I could tap eight, play this, kill five lands, blinkt before combat, kill five more lands. It's gonna come back at the end of my turn, kill five more lands, and they're gonna blink it again and kill ten more lands.

The other thing too, And this just goes into all of the comments and discussion I saw as to like why people think or why this or why that, Like maybe we didn't explain enough things last time because we were trying to do cards in mass. But a lot of cards like Sundering Titan have some kind of clause that say, if it would go into your graveyard, shuffle it back in instead, or when it hits your graveyard, shuffle it or shuffle your graveyard back.

In rossey Ty.

Yeah, and they make it so you can't like in tune and then reanimate them on turn frickin' two. Right, Sundering Titan doesn't have that either, So that's just another kind of thing on the list of why it's really powerful. Because if you can get a Sundering Titan out like turn two and destroy virtually every single land on the table, and or if you're pairing it with like you do at high power tables, a lot of Mani ROCs, you

Six more than that.

There's cards like Wildfire that deal damage to every creature and destroy a whole bunch of lands. There's a card called Devastation that destroys all lands of a certain type. Ye, well, if you just play rboorg, Devastation like that does the same thing. Armageddon is another one. This costs eight. Armageddon costs four eight inc band ruination.

We've talked about a bunch of times show ruination.

So I'm not saying Sundering Titan should be banned because land destruction is bad. I'm saying it's so easy to do.

It's when it enters and when it leads, it leaves. It can be played in every single deck, every single deck, and it's very easy to maneuver. And it's an artifact, so it's so easy to bounce in and out of play in hand and like it. It's a it's ridiculous. It's much more ridiculous than the next card we're going to talk about. I don't even that one might be one of.

My last my last thing about some titan hit me unbanned.

Welcome now, I don't fuck them now, I don't Ryan's wrong on this one. I'm gonna next next up, this one, you could maybe make a case for the stars, Babykay.

Of the Stars is like Worldfire kind of Okay, so this is blue blue eight count it that's ten ten, kind of like Worldfire in that like Echelon of manacost Sorcery, kind of like Worldfire. Each player shuffles their their hand, graveyard and permanence into their library, then draws seven. Each player's life total becomes seven. Kind of like World Fire.

Ah hmm, okay, here's the difference. I'm gonna tell you the difference.

I like this card.

The difference Sway of the Stars in World Fire is world Fire typically will end the game on the spot. Usually the damage that you need to do the one is already happening. It's already demonstrated, it's happening. The game is over. But there's a step that has there's a step in the stack that has to.

And it's called world fire.

Correct. Yeah, sway of the Stars is different in that seven is a lot harder to float in the air and demonstrate than one.

Yes, and you're putting everybody back to the start of the game.

Yeah, okay, So when World Fire like fucksed you, like it fucks you up, like it exiles all your shit, it doesn't restart the game, whereas Sway of the Stars restarts the game.

Yes, if the game starts at seven.

Let me read Worldfire real quick red red red six sorcery, exile all permanents, excel, all cards from all hands and graveyards. Each player's life total becomes one, so world Fire can completely blanks everything. And this is this is if you and I were playing World Fire. This how goes world Fire. Everybody goes to one. Excel all your shit go. If I don't have one damage on the stack, yeah, go you say, draw go draw Oh draw go draw Land Go draw Land go And it's fast and we all

We haven't exiled anything except I guess yeah, if you exile the graveyard, then you can't get.

It, like prior to Sway of the Stars. If I exile a bunch of your stuff in mass yeah, or if you're playing against like what's the what's the red black guy that draws from exile? No, no, I want to say usher, but I know that's a That guy's a different guy.

That's me. Imagine if prosper prosper let's playing lay Line of the Void.

Oh yeah, and then millenim the Way the Stars makes that guy's.

Yeah, then game worse. That's real good. But Sway the.

Stars essentially gives you, like a magic a secondary game at seven life.

It's Shahara's Ad but for real stake.

And if Shahara is ad and Worldfire had a baby, a star there it is there. It is fucking ban them all and I could.

I used to play we talked about Worldfire. I used to play Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation and the same deck. And there was actually a game I was playing with you and Jesse and I played both of them in the same game and I lost.

Well, of course, could people try to pound you, slap your lips into the dirt, stomp your dink.

Right through your butthole and it happened?

Turn it into an out up like an inny.

I look like a glove, yeah, side out glove.

With one finger, yeah, one finger the size of someone's arm.

That's right, it's the Sway of the Stars.

I think we can just last word on Sway the Star.

I think Sway of the Stars we could probably, Honestly, I think we probably could.

On bann.

But I can see why it is banned.

I can see why it's banned.

Unbannit, but I think you probably get away with unbanning that because somebody's gonna play at one time in their friend group and people are just gonna like.

Yeah, ma, fuck you, yeah you know what? Hey, how many games when it's turn eight? Would you mind like playing a sudden death round? This is sudden death in Super Smash Bros. Sway the Stars, Baby, we're all at seven goal.

This isn't sudden death.

World wildfirea death.

This isn't sudden death. This is like restarting and you have time to read because how often do you take seven damage in the first four or five?

Get like I like, you know what Sway the Stars makes commander feel like limited. Let's get your chip ins. Kids. We always say that.

I hate limited.

Sway the Star. That's card Sylvan Primordial, this is the one. This is Primetime is little brother, This.

Is prime This is primetimes little brother who had like everything given to him when he was a little kid, and now he's just an asshole.

Sylvan Primordial is Primetime sexy Sister. That's what I think.

I don't think he's I think he's the asshole little brother.

Let me read him, let me read them, read them.

He's a six eight Avatar or Green Green five with reach, Oh giants with reach sisters given reach around love it comes into play for each opponent you destroy target non creature permanent. That player controls each opponent. Then me, the controller of Silvern Primordial, searches through my deck for a forest and puts it into play for each one of those things, for each one of the things that I kill.

So you get like three things, yes, three fours, So your guy costs like four for a six eight with reach.

Well they're they're tapped. Sure you can get read.

Get them on layaway, get them on lay away. It's fine. Yeah, it's total mana spent versus gained.

Right, And this is also important. It's not a basic forest. It's just a forest, so you can find trylands, shocklands, dual lands, whatever you want.

It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

Ok very good.

This guy's good because he essentially this is better tear astil dawn that gives your opponents zero benefits.

And gives you lots of all of the benefits. And this thing can block it to Rastodon won't kill it, but it won't die either.

Okay, Silvian Primordial. Very good.

Yeah. I think that this one for the you see all the arguments that we had for prime time. Not actually I'm the primetime example is different.

I think people compare them too much.

I think that I think that people assume these cards are too similar. This is much more close to Thundering Titan, where if you have a way of recurring and playing in a game, Green isn't that much far off of being an artifact that I can think of four or five cards off the top of my head that'll put this back into my hand from the bin after I sack it to make I don't know, seven man out.

Of never mind. You can play this a ratic portal and you just paid bounce it and just don't pay the one. Yeah, with a ratic portal and you just played again.

Yeah, and you're getting so much advantage over time while putting your opponents so far behind. I'm not saying it's so egregious and so abusable. I think that Sun Titan is a different level of magnitude of like bad card. So maybe I could see unbanning this, but I kind of.

Don't want to. I like this little game that I just made up with The last card is if Primetime and Sundering Titan had a baby, it would be Silver Primordial. Yep, almost exactly. You're splitting the Manecost exactly. You've got in Silvern Primordial, you've got Primeval Titan's power, and you've got the differential in power and toughness like Sundering Titan has.

And if people that's pretty cool. Hey, Brando, would you play Silver Primordial. I have three Foil Ones that I had to take out of decks immediately after they were banned. So I have played this card. I've seen the look on my friend's face has played this card, and I don't miss it.

I have.

I will say that.

I took my Foil Primetime and my Foil Sylvan Primordial out of the same deck when when they got banned sequentially, and those were decks that just played green dumb idiots, because I'm a dumb idiot and wasn't doing anything like egregious with them. I was just playing them because they're hyper powerful magic cards, and if you count on.

Its face, it does all those things that we said, I'm gonna I'm gonna channel Aidan a little bit. Okay, my friend Aiden who loves the lands decks. If you were to put this into a deck with say a Scoot Swarm or a Onnath Locus of Rage or some other landfall payoff that also gives you three additional landfall payoffs, yeah, that could be backbreaking, depending on what you're looking at.

Yeah, and man, you know what, I'm I'm always just drawing comparisons on like cost elevation and abilities and how powerful or what those abilities are. And it's like the terrash On comparison I think is great, like last week's Hullbreacher and notion Thief. Different things, different man of costs. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know

But at the same time, because less is almost as big and does better stuff.

But at the same time, how much how much would I see this card? Like? How much am I going to run into this card? Not very much. I don't think there's so many cards.

Well, how often do you run into Trastoedon?

Never?

I run into traston sometimes. But I don't know. I think that people would play this.

Shit and they would have been absolutely they would abuse it. They would abuse it, like like people assume TARMAGOI. There's lots of money price memory, right, Yeah, tarmaguoif used to one hundred dollars card, now it's six. People used to say, oh, Silvi Primori is the best green card in commander and people would be like, must be good. I'm gonna put it in my deck, and then they find out Oh fuck yeah it is. Yeah that's true. Yeah, that's what they do. Okay, time Vault do we do?

I feel like time Vault is an obvious.

Stay banned because you take infinite turns with it.

Okay, it's infinite turns, right on it, as long as you have a way to untap an artifact, which is like, shut up and get out of here.

Yeah. Time walk. We're not talking about Power nine because time walk to extra turn for two minutes. Pret goody good, especially if I fork it. Yeah, especially if I freakin Narcetes reversal it, because then I can.

Do it again. See all the things we said about Shahara's ad, but just for you and then you win the game.

Okay, Tanker Tinker is I love this card.

Okay, I'm gonna let me let me say my bit on Tinker first and then your turn. So I think that with Tinker it should stay banned because of the same reasons that and I'm gonna cat shit for this that Primetime should be banned because I think that Tinker, if Eagle would limit design space when you're making commander stuff because the instant you pick a super duper I win immediately artifact card turn one every game tanker and you can't have that. You just can't have that in existence.

You could say that about jeweld Lotus too, right, if there's some like two card with your Commander two card with your three cost Commander, and you could do that turn one with Jeweled Lotus and another man Rock like whatever, It's like, Yeah, Jewel Lotus for that reason limits design space on three drop commanders. The same can be said of Tinker. Okay, so let's read it. It's a sorcery for Blue two as an additional cost. Additional cost, mind

And then you play the artifact lands and Bob is my uncle, which is still true yep, and like yeah, and the most powerful artifacts haven't even been printed yet, but they're coming. And I think that Tinker is like a little because somebody's like, Tinker, what if they Tinker this into play you guys, and we can't print this ludicrous doctor Octopus's arms card, and I know that they've already spoiled.

Octopus is smelling arm pit tight eight, It's just octo pit.

Right. Then there's then the people who are paying them all the money to advertise on all the matter cards are gonna be mad because their cards aren't very good because they left Tinker legal and because money, Hey, the secret.

Secret Layer Tinker with just different arts from all the different universes. Beyond that, we can tutor broken artifacts from Doctor Octopus's armput freaking bilbol Beggin's dildo. I mean, man, it's the list is endless, freaking Tifa Lockhart's bra. Yes, I was gonna say butt plug. Haven't made a butt plug or a cam girl joking years that's a long time. Wow. The C and C CEO the first C stands for camgirl?

Is that true?

That's my story. I'm sticking to it, all right, Tinker. I love this card. It's super cool. I uh, gun to your head? We did this last week. Gun to your head Tinker or Panoptic Mirror? Who's staying banned?

Tinker?

Tinker or Paradox Engine? Who's staying banned? Who? Fuck?

Yeah, that's a good one, because you're just gonna tinker for the mirror or you're gonna tinker for the fucking So I would still leave Tinker band.

Tinker Band, all right, Tinker band. You heard it here first. He wants Paradox Engine unbanned. He wants it unbanned?

Sure, I mean I do so.

They're an academy.

Gotta leave a band. And here's why Cradles unbanned. Cradle and Sarah Sanctum are both unbanned.

That is true, but Raft's Edges unbanned, shiven Gorges unbanned, Rat's Edge, different cycle, but shiven Gorges Tower and Tower it's unbanned.

You're looking. There's too many artifactoe. Every fucking set comes out with scrap, junk, blood clue, butt plug. But there's so many fucking artifact tokens, and they're so easy to make because some of them are so goddamn.

Bass zero drops, jeweled bird, jeweled butt plug, jeweled artifact lands. None of those are banned, and there's like fifteen of them. Now.

There has never been a game where I play the is it Enchantment that makes treasures and then flip over into a Tilarian Academy that I have not one immediately upon slip flipping that n not a single one.

You said that last week about a card too. Never have I cast this card and not one. I only have one card like that.

There's a because it's Tilarian Academy, as you know, because you've played it in Commander is so fucking strong in just an incidentally artifactory deck, and I played in Brutoclad because brutal Clad just makes tokens, you know, most of those tokens are artifacts.

You know what comparison I really like? Everybody says Guy's Cradle and Sarah's Sanctum, while Sarah's Sanctum gives you white off of enchantments. Enchantments usually cost more than one or two mana usually correct, and creatures die lots and creatures usually cost more than one or two mana for Guy's Cradle. Okay, Silarian Academy, he get artifact lands smart against big red ex But you know what I think a really good comparison for Claring Academy is is dock Side Extortionist or

Three yeah, oh yeah, that's pretty bad.

I want this card unbanned so badly.

I would love to say we should unban this, but you can't. You can for unbanned till they'ren account.

You can't.

You can't. It's it's too strong, frick. It has nothing to do with the cost, this game reserve list, It has nothing to do with anything. It's the fact that this card is too good on turn one because it all that cares about his artifact.

I got one burned in a hole in a good box waiting for it to get unbanned.

It's not gonna frick. It's gonna keep burning that whole baby.

Play legacy merely restricted.

Yes, they one of them invented, because that's life.

In your sixty card deck. Okay, this is a fun card. I actually like this card.

I played this card in lots of deck.

This is trade secrets. This is a sorcery for blue Blue one and it says draw up to four cards. Okay, one of your opponents pick an opponent, they draw two every time that they repeat this process, and I can draw up to four a game.

They can draw two as many times as they want, and every time they do, we can draw four or three or two or one or none. Yes, and everybody draws.

The reason it's banned is because a little bit it created lopsided power kind of or like power and balances, where if I target Brando, I say draw two. Oh yeah, okay, I draw four. You want to go again. Oh yeah, I go again. You gonna go again, And that would go on until I've got like sixty cards in my hand. He's got twenty. He found his combo piece. I found fifteen of my combo pieces. And because it's my turn,

Let me hit you with the the very dark side of trade secret.

Ooh, the deep Web trade secret.

Let's say Ryan and Brando show up to a competitive four prizes event.

Yes, that we had to pay money to enter.

That we had to pay money to enter, And now we're both playing trade secrets in our decks. Yes, and we've agreed going into the building that day that we're gonna split all of our prizes and we're gonna make sure that we're in the same pods all day.

As much as we can.

Trade secrets allows us to collude with one another to essentially remove the other two players from the game, because Ryan's gonna play it and win, and if he doesn't, I'm probably gonna win because the other two players are going to use their resources up stopping him. So they had nothing left to stop me, because we have drawn everything we need.

Exactly and if they did have resources, while so does the guy, the other guy that trade secreted, who just drew twenty or thirty cards.

And that's like, that's the ceiling of scumbag of how trade secrets can be used. But we have both played sorry friends in Calgary, have played in Calgary enough to know that that shit would go on.

That and that would not absolutely go on for sure. The fun side of trade secrets, the reason that I alway, yeah, yeah, super fun. The reason I would like pick it for it to be un banned is think of when I've got my consecrated Sphinx and you clone my consecrated Sphinx, and when I draw you draw two. When you draw two,

Yep.

And if you want to get greedy with trade secrets, like maybe you're gonna pay the price. But because of the collusion, because of the unfunness for two players at the table. If something's unfun for three players and they all bandy together to kill the one player who's playing stacks at a casual table as an example, sure I don't mind that. That's because somebody's got to be the bad guy.

Yeah, people figure that you'll figure the puzzle, you'll get them.

Trade secrets allows two guys to be the bad guy and just take a shit right into somebody's mouth.

They're just a mango sized shit right next to the prize pile. And then they their partner while the other guy's shitting and you're so horrified, their partner just takes the prizes. Yes, So I think that trade Secrets should be banned, not because of what it does, but because how I think it would probably be used. And that's not an indictment on anybody, but I feel like we all can see the clue happening.

Man, we are hitting up some heavy hitters. Our next card is upheaval return all permanence to their owner's hand. This is essentially Sway of the Stars, except you have to discard a whole bunch. This is essentially Sway the Stars or Worldfire or Sundering Titan, except you don't like it's just a different version of that.

Right, it's psych rift, but it hits you two and it hits lands.

Return all permanence to their owner's hand for Blue Blue four at sourcery speed.

Yeah, so like you that what you do to play this card? The argument, Well, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna tap all my shit. I'm gonna use six of my ships to upheaval, and i'm gonna replay all my shit again, and you're gonna go land discard down to seven probably go right, And it has the same kind of an impact on a game as a psych rift does, but it can't be used as strategically and would probably just end up as like a one insided kind of a drawn out slog until the person that

Yeah, strategically it was popular and standard like back in two thousand and one or two, because you could upheaval and then recast your psychotog, and psychotogue allows you to discard cards to pump it and then exile cards from your graveyard to pump it again. So you would just upheaval your whole board, discard down to just like make it an eight eight and then make it a twelve twelve and like two punch them or whatever. Right, Like,

Yes, it does all the things that we've talked about when you're gonna be the bad guy. But I think this does it in such a way that it just fuck it sucks.

What do you win? What do you want? Banning Sway the Stars are upheovle.

Sway the Stars?

I would I would rather Sway the Stars because it puts everybody to seven. And then you're playing like a little mini game. Yeah it's hair is that minigame.

There's some actual parody there, whereas upeval is just again it's that slow fucking grind you to death. Probably.

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna tap my Tilarian Academy for seventeen. I'm gonna UPEVL then replay all my stuff.

I'm gonna replay all my zero cost there's Tilarian Academy again. Right, Why is Hilarian Academy still banned? Oh well, let me explain it to you, bro.

I'm going to tap Tillary Academy for twenty one. I'm going to Upheaval floating fifteen cast emmera cool.

Yeah, that'll do it. Oh that'll do, pig, that'll do.

That'll do Okay, So if you want that, let's unban all three of those cards. Okay. Final card. I love love love this card, and.

I honestly I as we usually do with lists. I feel like the last card I think is I'm going to say it the least offensive of the bunge.

I do yog Moth's bargain. I love this card. I love the art, I love the effect. I love the set that it's from. I love that it's an enchantment. I love the man of cost. It's black black four for an enchantment that says two lines of texting you notes gooday, notes good when all it's got to do is say two freakin' things and it's banned. Okay, skip your drawstep suck. Yeah, I'm listening. I'm listening. Hit me up, pay one life, draw card.

Oh oh shit.

Aka ramp to six, pay thirty nine, draw half your deck, win the game.

Yes on like turn two. Yes, fuck, that's a good card.

Man. I like that card. I wish I could play that card now.

I think that this should be on band Yeah me too, I do.

I want it to be on BET.

I think it should be on Bend, not because I think it's awesome and not because I like it or whateverybody. And if you can play slow this which is necropotence significantly slower, not the same card, but I'm gonna use the use it as an example because it kind of does the same thing. I just don't think that yag Matt's bargigain at six manna as an enchantment is that egregious that it couldn't be a game changer.

I think that this could be a game changer when you compare this to ad nauseum ad nauseum. I know you take zero for drawing land, but you also take one or two or three or four or five or six for drawing other things in your deck. So probably Yogmoth's bargain is a frickin' bargain. If you want to draw twenty five cards, I'll bet because you know it's twenty five life every single time. You get them right now,

It's the same thing.

Or if you chain them together in addition to Bullus's Citadel, another black game changer where you go, oh, there's a draw to lose two on top my library. I guess I'll pay two to cast my draw to lose too, So I'm actually paying four. And that's that's really good and that's fine, and people already do that, and that's okay. This is like more manna than that, but also a little bit better because it's less cards, Like, when was.

The last time you've seen anybody play greed?

Greed?

Yeah it cost it's an enchantment for black three ay one black and a life draw card? When the last time is much worse? Yagmants will what is the last time you ever? You didn't even know what it was?

Yeah I did.

Nobody plays that card.

Nobody greed?

Yeah, ay two life card, pay two.

Life and a black to draw card four man enchantment.

Nobody plays that, And I mean because its fucking sucks.

Because it sucks because you've got to pay black into it, right, and if you did.

This, let's use the example I wrapped a six on turn two, pay thirty nine life, draw half of my deck. You know what you could do there? Miss, because in Commander it's not your it's not half your deck.

Yes, yes, yes.

And you could hypothetically just get domed and then die to a raging goblin. Every single deck that you're playing against is capable of.

Doing Yes, even the themes lady looking left decks can do one damage. Yeah. The thing about this though, is you are pairing it with black, and you are pairing it with things like Bacitadel, all the black tutors, because there's freaking the most of them in that color. Right, this card. I can recognize why it's banned. I can make comparisons to neckropotents and and ad nauseum like the ban article that Gavin put out I think did like I've heard other content creators do. I'm doing the same thing,

The months bargain. And you're like, yeah, well, too bad. Shouldn't playless Get this card.

This card, like many of the cards on the band list and the Game Changers list, does change the game. Yep, and so much so. This card changes the game so much that it changes the meta game. It changes what people do about chipens and extra damage and those little things that that you think don't matter. And sometimes people say, oh, that's just one life doesn't matter. Well, when you play Yoagamat's Bargain, there's a meta game that actually revolves about that,

I like that.

I think that that's cool. I like that. That's where I want to end. I don't think that this is a bad place to end on. No, I think it's a I think it's a really interesting discussion as to is this card really The answer is yes, it really is. That good. Yes the answers, Yes, I have one, Yes I want to play it. Yes it's burning a hole. Yes I wish I had a foil one. I don't.

I have a foil one, but I do have one too. I have one also, but I've never really wanted to play it, if I'm honest.

And and maybe maybe that's it. Maybe I don't want it on a game changer's list because the deck I put it in doesn't have any game changers, and then my deck would immediately be a three if I'm holding myself to task on the bracket matchmaking system, and I wouldn't play it anyways. Right, So ultimately, when you're downgrading, unless we're following the bracket matchmaking systems game changers list to a t, not a whole ton of this is gonna matter. But I do want to see this card unbanned.

I think it would be cool too. I would just to see to see, and to.

That end, this is my final thought of the day. Oh shit, for like just for like three months, for one quarter, unbanned everything. Oh my god, fuck yeah, let's go unbanned it all, unbanned the world, unbanned. I'm ready.

I want to ask you one question, Ryan, Sure, I've been waiting to ask this question.

Hey, how are we doing for time? That producer Gary? All right, here it is. This is it.

We're gonna get to some comments on the pre show next week because we ran out of time. Gun to your head. Oh yeah, gun to both sides of your head.

Gun to your head means skip your dress step. I'm listening.

You can't pick a card president on the current band list, but you have to ban one card for personal reasons. What card is it?

Brash daunter fucking gottam gotam.

You got me so good? Fuck man? That is it? You want to ban the most powerful, most handsomest, most versatile card in the whole game. It makes sense. Well, I was demoralizing very You know what's not demoralizing saving money on magic cards. And that's what you can do when you use CEO holiday at Fusion Gaming online dot com. Very good, the business daddies of our show, or when you go and buy delightful beer from Pylo Bones Brewing col They are the second coolest thing to come out

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I couldn't remember. You know when I might remember it in time for the next exciting episode of Commander Cookout podcast.

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