What's going down? Everybody, your good friend Ryan, Uncle Brando here dropping in quick before the show with a little bit of news. We had a local member of our community the other day pass away. Ryan Christie was his name. Hell of a magic player, and we wanted to take a minute to dedicate the show to him today.
He's a good dude.
He was a Ryan said, pillar of the Regina Magic community, a good friend to our good friend Keel. We got to meet him, break bread with him, drink beer with him, and our hearts and thoughts go out to his family and friends and this time. It's always terrible when you lose somebody that's close to especially when they're so young, So we want to dedicate it today's show to him and his loved ones.
He was the commarical podcast episode for already one. I'm brand O him. Here's Brian. Everyone talk about the band.
Listen now our things.
Hey Ryan, We're back for yes another Whirlwind adventure. How you doing good? What is going down?
Whole bunch is going down. We're gonna talk about the ban list and whether we think that those cards should remain out of the game forever or become part of the game Changer list. We got some stories to tell,
some people to thank. Before we get to any of that, we have to thank for official business Dad is Fusion Gaming Online dot Com at your source for all your gaming needs, where you gonna use special promo code CCO Holidays say five percent off all of your band cards, one of which I bought because I didn't.
Realize it was on the list. We'll talk about that when we get to it.
I love what that kind of stuff happened, especially to you.
And any other card that we talk about here today. We also want to thank Pile the Bones Brewing Co. They're the second coolest thing to come out of Regina, as well as being the official beer sponsor for c CEO. Sidewalk Slam Season three just premiered right here on YouTube.
All baby, look at it's on the back TV. You'd see that if you're watching on YouTube, which should be and you should watch Sidewalk Slam on YouTube as well. Yeah, very much, so big thanks to producer Gary who is working the production behind the scenes today. We appreciate that, and of course the whole dufferin Avenue Media Network Network, Studio Network Network, yep.
And I would not be here without the Network, Yes.
Very much so. And the Business Daddies. I just got a a shipment from the Business Daddies. Ordered it used CEO holiday promo code. Showed up in three days at a discount. Playing Magic the Gathering cards with those cards now nicely done? Yeah, very much so, Yellow Basic Lands, How did you get two two to one? I don't run very many basics in a four color deck? Uncle Brando, who get with the program?
Blood Moon? Blood Moon? Not a game?
Can no, no, so okay. Over the last last couple of weeks, we've been talking about the new bracket matchmaking system to I guess mixed opinions. Are things going to change? Should we do anything different? If you want to know our opinions, and like, I think at this point in time, pretty comprehensive breakdown of our thoughts.
Yeah, we've been talking about it for two weeks, two weeks. It has to be comprehensive.
Plus on the pre show as well for two weeks. So we've got several hours worth of stuff. If you haven't watched it yet, go check it out. I think we did a pretty good job. We got some compliments, we got a lot of like intel and extras. Thoughts provided to us in our discord, which is a wonderful benefit to becoming a Patreon supporter.
Lots of people said that, wait, wait, hang on, hang on, Oh yeah, Patreon dot com, slas Cco podcast, if you would like to become a Patreon every little bit helps you wouldn't.
Be here without them very much. So okay, so I noticed, sorry, And then back to what I'm saying now.
From stretching here, I noticed on from what I saw on the discord, I couldn't get through all of it because I'm bad at discord. And it's because he's one hundred, because I'm a thousand years old.
A lot of this I saw sound that.
Is like, yeah, it works fine, but it's basically just the same as the ten system.
Yes, so.
Every every much ado about nothing maybe well a little bit, a little bit it is.
But and this is the final thing I'll say on it. No what I say, two things, two things I always say, right, okay, So every one bracket counts as two. Now, A one is a one or two, A two is a three or a four. A three it's five or six, A four is a seven or an eight.
There we go.
There it is and then a five is a nine or ten excellent. That's the first thing. The second thing is, and this is the final thing is it's it gives us actual tools, gives us the language, It gives us something official, something more concrete than what the commands on said like five years ago. Yes, it's like a seven, I don't know whatever.
Every dex of seven now, every dex to three.
Now if we if we wanted to maybe make our decks into fours or fives or sixes or sevens, we could play some band cards, but we wouldn't be allowed to.
Yes, we would be then cheating.
So what we have to do is change the rules so that we can play banded cards.
Or wait until when is it April? When the next like the game Changer and band list updates are going to come out, And I think we're gonna see some changes. I would be surprised if we didn't see changes.
I would be shocked and in.
The way of or this is how I think changes are going to happen. Is card on band list gets put onto game changer list.
Do you think there's gonna be a tiered game Changer list? I don't want there to be, no, But do you think there will no because then that's another list exactly.
That's why don't want people are already One of the criticisms is people are already saying, oh, well, why do we need a game changer's list that's like a point system like Canadian Highlander has, or it's a secondary list when there's already a banded list. Blah blah blah. We
don't need to make it any more complicated. We don't need the barrier to entry to be any higher for new players, right, But when you take a card off the band list, that does make it available for play at a certain kind of expected power level of deck three, Tier three, bracket three, four or five. So when you do that, what you're doing is functionally eliminating it out of pre conplay or lower powered play. And I think that that's great because these cards are on the band
list because obviously they're very powerful. Obviously they're going to change games that they're in.
What list are we looking at?
Here we on the screen because this is not the oh, this is the legacy bands.
These cards are not banned on Commander, my guy, Commander bandless. Here we go.
So we have got and I don't even know how many cards are on the Commander band list. Let's say that there's like forty.
We're going to go through the ones that are worth talking about. Yep.
So we're gonna skip the Power nine, We're gonna skip the Dexterity cards.
We're gonna like flip it up in the fucking sky and blow on it.
And if it stays in the air for ten minutes, if it touches a card to blow the card up, you're gonna skip that kind of shit.
Though I wish that that one was nat I wish Chaos Orb was unbanned.
So bad it costs so many dollars.
I feel like it wouldn't really matter if it came off the band list, but I understand why it's on the right.
Yes, you gotta leave it.
It's an it's an eight or nine hundred dollars magic card. Can you imagine if it came off the band list what that price would dude go to? Like ten grand?
Oh yeah?
And then and it's a you physically have to throw it around to play it.
The best part, that's the best part. Oh man, do you remember, oh man, do you remember when Rick whoever it was, David David Manning it was. It was somebody in our local community. It's like doing his fucking warm ups and ship stretches to throw his chaos orb throws it and he goes right onto his board, blows up like six of his land oh his own ship.
Oh man, that was very funny.
It's such a ridiculous card. That's why I want it to be unbanned.
Agreed. Anyways, I would certainly play it if I could. Now.
You went to DH Night Magic EDH and M the other day yesterday and talked with a bunch of CCIO dude bros. Took it to the boys on Beer with the Boys band list.
Beer with the Boys, Yes, b B b oh with Uncle Brando Yes yeah okay, and.
You talked about which cards should very definitely be banned forever, like life in prison, no chance of role. And you talked about what could potentially come off and.
Come game changers and thereby b cards that are okay.
And I love to play the game where we pit two cards against each other and see which one, if we had to gun to our head unbanned one, keep the other band And I want to kind of just go through the list in this way, like like my way and the way that you did yesterday to kind of pick and put our opinions out there. Okay, okay, where do you want to start, Like just at the top.
Let's start at the top with balance.
Balance. Okay, this is a two manna, this is white one sorcery, and everybody sacks down to the least number of.
Everything essentially everything lands creatures cards in hand. You see who has the least, then everybody has that many, thus bringing the game into balance.
Yes, and Balance was a card that they also reprinted with uh suspend called restore Balance. So this is an effect that we can already play, right, Yes, so I guess with restore Balance it is telegraphed.
You see it comming from I think three three turns.
Though you can with the timey wymy pre con if you want to take some of those cards, you can speed run your time counters with the same turn. But that's not that good because it's still telegraphed and people still know that this is the kind of shit you're doing. Right, So should Balance be banned or unbanned?
I'm fine with it being banned. Not because we learned, we learned a new term.
I don't know if we learned a new term.
But one of the things that a couple of the guys like to talk about last night was the term chaos gremlin.
Okay, and I feel that's where.
A lot of at least in our group's consensus, people were thinking that their regards that were on this list because of the chaos gremlin. The guy that just the guy that just randomly plays armagedinon like just because it's funny.
Oh, yeah, I call it.
They do it to make the griefers is what I call that. Yes, yes, play it to make you mad.
The griefer is is an I think a more universal term. The term that I use a lot of the times is like social immaturity. They don't know that this isn't an appropriate way to play the game.
To most people.
Yeah, and balance would be the kind of thing that if it becomes unbanned, you go to a big magic Facebook group with one hundred thousand people in it, and somebody types in, oh, what's the best way to break balance?
I want to piss my friends off exactly.
Yes, that's the guy.
Yes, those are the guys that you're you're looking out for.
Can you play a balance? I'm gonna use the words responsibly and use it to win games. Absolutely you can. I could absolutely do it.
I would put it in stacks decks or in planes Walker decks like people put Armageddon in where you don't actually care if you eliminate all of your own version of this resource, because you still have like planes Walkers.
You still have value and over yeah.
Turnover turn to get your advantage back. Man, a card advantage tokens whatever.
Right, And I think just because like at the low end, Balance is going to be a card that somebody's just gonna play because they're behind, and now everybody's behind, and it kind of just, let's just say, ways, it fucks the game up. Yeah, And so I feel like that's probably why it for me, that's.
Why it could stay on the band list.
I don't want somebody to just I've been random Armageddon before and it sucks. And I feel like random Balance is even a little bit worse because it makes it difficult to.
To It's more than it's more than one thing, right, It's not just your lands like Armageddon. It's your lands and your cards in hand and your creatures and your artifacts like it's everything, right, Okay, So I want to do a thing here. Okay, we talked about balance. What about Worldfire. Now Worldfire costs like eight, but it does kind of the same thing. Yeah, now also costing eight, also doing kind of the same thing when you build around it and do the responsible thing. Next card, bio Rhythm.
Yeah.
Now all of these cards, Balance, bio Rhythm, World Fire, I would consider them the same type of card when used to win the game. Yes, I have one damage on the stack and I Worldfire. Everybody's life becomes one and everybody's permanence go bye bye. Then I win. Or planes walkers with Balance or bio Rhythm, is life totals become equal to creatures?
Yes?
If I cast Wrath of God, play a one drop, and then play a bio Rhythm, my life goes to one. Your life goes to zero.
Yes.
Or a player three Wrath of God and kills all the dudes and then passes to you, and then you play Biogorrhythm and everybody else dies except.
For them, all the old offensive, defensive Biogrhythm.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so Balance was our first card. We're unbanning it, are we we are? Okay, but but hear me out. Okay, we're pitting it against bioorhythm. One of them has to be banned, one of them is gonna be unbanned.
Why dounbanned bio Rhythm and Heartbeat Heartbeat bi rhythm on absolutely Why because it does the same thing to a game as a card like Torment of Hillfire, a really big Comet, Storm, Cyclonic Rift, all those cards of the.
Same creator hoof Behemoth, you world Fire.
You invest a large amount of manna and it probably results in you winning the game. This one just actually says you win the game on it. Yeah, it requires lots of work on your behalf. It requires a board state that has to be carefully sculpted. You could certainly eat shit off of it as well if somebody paths the creature that you play to make you survive.
Your own bi rhythm or die to your own virhythm. Yes, so, I don't know.
I think that this is a perfectly fine card to come off the band last.
Oh no, you know what I like. I like path your guy, you're going to die to your own bi rhythm. But also on the stack, I'm going to generous gift my own thing to give myself an elephant and then my life total goes to one.
You die.
There's the defense of Bioghithm and yeah, it's it's eight or nine man or whatever.
It's eight.
This is fine, and it's printed on a creature right now. You can play bio Rhythm in command Wow, right.
Now for more manna and you have to have eight total power or more. Yeah, and it's sen that's sorcery speed or like at summoning sickness speed. Yes, so bio Rhythm unbanned.
Absolutely.
Okay, are we talking about Braid's Cabal Minion.
No, no, no, you don't know she's banned because you don't want to see her in the command zone.
That's why that card is banned.
And we are already have Turgrid in that same spot on the Black Game Changers List. Leave Leave Raids Band.
We can just leave her out of there, nobody. I don't think anybody really wants to play against that deck. I have in the past before she's banned, it was a nightmare.
And and now you could play against Turgert or Talks Real and sort of have the same experience. And Turgert's already on the Game Changers list, so you're not gonna see that unless you're playing higher powered games exactly.
Okay, so already things that just do it better. So she can just stake.
Up Graids see Turgrid, take some fucking notes, okay, chaos or we talked about what I wanted on banned so bad, but I know that it won't be the next one, okay, Coalition Victory. I want this fricking card on banned so bad.
I'm fine with it being under. A couple of the people were like, yeah, but like my five colored deck and said.
Oh, shut up with your five color deck, Like yeah, you're gonna win a game with it, like once, you know what I mean.
But don't people want it their five colored deck?
Way they do, but like, oh, it's gonna make my deck so good. No it's not. Isn't it cost eight? It costs eight because whooberg and fucking three, Like it's not good? Gods eight.
We just talked about Buyer Rhythm and Worldfire and Creator Hoof and Cyclonic Rift. I know that that's seven, but those all cost eight and those are fine, Yeah, I probably.
And this one is the most fragile of the lot, like any removal spell will stop this.
Dude, Oh my god. Okay, I can't win the game with cards like Torment of Hailfire or or Exanguinate or debt to the death list unless I put more than eight man into it. And people are like, those cards need to be on the Game Changers, but you want Coalition victory fucking off the Game Changers list, Like what yeh? Coalition Victory. I think, And here's my first actual prediction. I think it's gonna be one of the ones that's
downgraded from band and put onto Game Changers. I think it's gonna be one of the ones.
You know what, I would hot take.
I would just take it off of both lists and put it into the fucking game.
Oh that's a good take. That's a good take. And then there's somebody out there.
Just like kind of whacking it while they're thinking about it, and they're like, oh god, I just did. But what if you go land prismatic omen because then your lands are all basic land types and then you play Transkilled Courier and then you wait five turns and your Vanilla two tuesdays alive and you play that's.
True, you got me. The card's broken, Like.
The card's broken, dude, but you you needed like five other cards to combo with it, and it can't be in your command zone.
Yeah, and all of those cards are shitty, Like.
This is this whole this whole episode is gonna be that us. We're the cartoon dogs sitting in the house on fire.
This is fine, This is fine.
Colition victory is fine.
Yeah, this is fine.
I don't see I honestly don't even know why it was bad in the first place. I really don't, given that there are so many other cards that do the same thing with less hoops to jump through, like the.
Same thing meaning end the game. Yeah, the game is just over now, Yes, because this one says that you win.
Yeah, there is no functional difference between Torment of Hillfire for sixty and this and Torment of Hill Fire for sixty is as.
Egregious as you think it is. I do it all the time.
I've seen it. I want to put that if this gets un banned straight into my five color deck, it's an eight drop and I play ad nauseum. I'll just freaking cut something. I'll just just get all my duels and shocks and my try lands, and I'm be the guy that has like the freaking ten thousand dollars manna base and I'm gonna cast my freaking five color naked baby weird thing commander child of Lara, and then I'm gonna cast Coalition victory. And if they blow up my child of a Lara in.
Response, they're gonna lose all their permanence. Anyway, what if they waste land one of your lands?
Don't care play from a gravy. I'll waste land one of my own fucking land.
Over that's the thing. Then you won't win, It's perfect. I'll just play from my grave are easily. Then you won't have Coalition victory anymore. I play yagwats will in that deck.
I'm bad at this game. If I'm gonna build a degenerate deck, I'm gonna go all the way piece of crap.
All right, I am that guy. You heard it here? First, okay, Coalition victory unbanned, non banned that one, okay.
Next one.
Channel that's that's that has to stay on. Oh fuck, that's.
Stand banned one hundred days out of one hundred.
Yes, yes, not the universal approval, because there was a couple of guys at the table that didn't know what Channel does. If you don't know what channel does part of the original magic the gathering combo, tell them green green until end of turn. You may pay Life to add colorless manna to your manipool.
So what you do is start the game with like a rich like a dark ritual or whatever. No, dark ritual is perfect because we're talking about torment to hailfire and exanguinate. Yeah, you go swamp. Dark ritual gives you three Oh no, how do we make green fuck?
Originally I believe what was it, black Lotus Blackladus channel for yes.
Yeah, back when, like in nineteen ninety three, it was your sixty card deck had twenty channels, twenty Black Lotus and twenty Fireballs Channel Fireball. That's where the name comes from. Yeah, and yeah, you just dark Ritual can channel. You paid thirty nine Life. You've got black black black from your Dark Ritual. You've got a forty point xanguin eight on turn two.
Yeap, oh my god, that's so good.
Yeah, and that's why you can't or in like a even a less ridiculous kind of world, you could do like Lotus pedal Forest channel uhamug.
I was just gonna say, yeah, turn.
One, right, turn one. I have seen that that's enough.
I have seen a turn one causelect with swift foot or with lightning grieves on it on the back of a metal worker.
It's pretty good.
Metal work is pretty good.
Metal work of pretty good, like.
That Greaves with the zero cost equip very good. Guy got Annihilator Ford and he didn't even take a turn of magic yet He's like, Okay, I guess I'll just take ten and sacrifice nothing.
Card's not even good.
Oh man, Yeah, you know who won that game?
That guy? Me what I remember that he won that game? I do on that game?
Yeah, that guy got pounded for having a turn one umug or a cot and I was playing budget Zata didn't even have a soul ring.
Happy good.
Okay, next one, I'm glad channel stays banned. Dockside Extortionist. I'm fine leaving that one off the list, like leaving it on the leaving it banded. And I have a bunch of them, and yeah, it'd be cool if they got unbanned.
But I think and a lot of the.
People in our survey group agreed that it's just it just gets kind of too egregious.
Okay, let's let's skip ahead, real quick down to Primeval Titan because people are making the comparison Dockside and Primetime are essentially the same card, except Docksides way better if you.
Want to blanket for mana.
Where Primetime is a lot better if you want to like cheap different kinds of lands into play, but it costs six, Dockside costs two. Do we leave Primetime on the band list? I think that card could come off.
I think I'm fine with it staying gone for this reason, Okay, for this reason, for right now, as of today, February twenty eight, twenty twenty five, sure, Prime Evil Titan could probably be on the.
Game Changer list and that would be fine.
Is like, yep, but Brando, what if they get the wasteland in the strip? Mine, sure that could happen. What if they get Vesuva and dark Depths? Yeah, you probably could do that. What if you get herb Organ coffers coffers, Yeah, sure, yeah, Like all those things are gonna happen. Those are all things that could happen. Yes, those are all true real life things come final fantasy when they print. I don't know vector and vector character. It's a it's a city,
it's the capital city. And Final Fantasy and it comes into play and does five damage to every creature you don't control.
They can't be regenerated if they die or something like that. You could get another Land that.
Just is so it's a spell.
Let's say they take let's say they take Caracas off the list, and then you can like God's right. Like I feel like Lands and I hate to say the word power creep, but I will. Lands are going to get power crept as they go, and Primetime, being as it is and around, I feel eventually will become a problem again and we'll probably have to go off.
You know.
That's kind of I think it's just a design space thing where I feel that they're just going to eventually print something they breaks.
They shot themselves in the foot with Primetime, but they want to force it back in there to say, hey, this is actually okay. Here's the thing about Primetime and this whole discussion and new Slash. We're not going to get through this whole list today. We're just working on I don't want to give I don't want to turn over a three hour show to editor Joe.
Sorry.
Here's the thing is, if we're using the game Changer's list as a tool to filter the band cards through, or sorry, we're using the bracket system as a tool to filter band cards through. We can say, okay, we're never going to see prime Time at brackets one, two, and very unfrequently at three. Sure, how often are we going to see it at four? Probably often? Yeah, And then how often are we going to see it in five? Probably not that often?
Well, in because like five is kind of the way I conceptualize it is one of those games where it's like an old like a vintage or a legacy game, or you win on the back of a three to three, right, Yeah, Primeval Titan would be cdh's version of that fucking blue guy that is a three to two that flies delver.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Delver secrets.
Yeah.
I think, I think, and we're not super CEDH buffs, but I think if you're not winning with a combo or trying to go for it right now, you're winning on the back of like overwhelming advantage that you accrue throughout.
The game, which you could get with Prima.
Definitely you can get that with Primeval Titan, but not on the back of how you would do it in a more casual thing where you're actually playing like ghostly flicker and come up and efemorate. That's how Primetime is going to get abused at the three and four level brackets. At number five, you're going to accelerate out of six six like you do in Modern and just try and beat to get overwhelming advantage from the course of turn three to turn ten because you're not comboing like And
I think it's actually totally fine in CDH. I think it's totally fine if you want to flicker Primetime at lower power levels, And for that reason, I think that that's fine because it's six mana you have to get there.
Yeah.
Well, with dock Side, if we go back to dockside, it's fricking one or two mana, right, And it's so easy to go to get a cost reducer on a Goblin or a cost reducer on a creature. It's so easy to go mana positive. And it's so easy at any power level to flicker something that costs two.
Yeah.
So Coalition Victory still unbanned, but Primetime, I think could be. If we had to unban two cards, Primetime might be the other one.
Sure, I think that there's other ones that I would unband before Primiual Titan.
Okay, well we'll keep going down the list.
Here here's a hint. According to this is the one. If you guessed this next card on there show yesterday, you you have won because this is the one that the tables. As soon as I said then everyone's like, no, no, leave it forever.
Nobody wants to deal with that crap.
And the guy sitting next to me very new to magic, it's only been playing a couple of months as well, what does it do? And I told him it's a fifteen to fifteen for fifteen that can't be countered, that has Annihilator six and flying and has protection from colored spells. And he was like, oh yeah, that can stay banned forever. Em Ra Cool, Emra Cool, the Eon Storm.
Emmeracool one. Oh man, I wish I had a big card emmera Cool.
Oh yeah, and when you cast it you take an extra turn also that yes, as if it wasn't enough, here's thing.
If Emmer Cool didn't have that extra turn clause, that card would be unbanned so fast. You're probably right, But in a world and I think emmera Cool, I think a little bit Emmercool paid for Tilarian Academy sins because those cards were illegal at the same time. Yeah, and I think that people really got tired of Tilarian Academy bullshit. Yeah that got banned an DH back in like two thousand and nine or ten or whatever. Yeah, because everybody was like, I don't know, turn three, em or cool.
I'll take an extra turn annihilate for you six six, bounce my emra cool.
Do it again.
I'll take an extra turn down. I'll hit you for six, fifteen and six.
Right.
I think a little bit if I was if I was going to gun to my head unbanned Coalition.
Victory or emmor cool from the Coalition victory. Yes, I think I'm assuming we can probably as much as I want to. I would love to play it in my Wolfguard deck, which is all El Drazi.
All the time. I understand why I can't.
Yeah, you know what, though, I'll say this, maybe this is a hot take. I want to live in a world where Emorkol is legal. I want to live in that world.
I'm I'm not super afraid of it, as I as somebody that plays a deck that's stuffed with creatures.
That have huge annihilator and I was lot of stuff somebody with emol right.
I don't think it would actually be that egregious in most cases. And again, people always look at it like they do jeweled Lotus, where they look at the most insane scenarios the turn one, the turn two, emor cool as opposed to like the second turn you draw at you have no ramp and only three land and you have a fifteen fifteen for fifteen in your hands.
And you're the you never play and your deck is also full of other el drawsis that cost between eight and fourteen.
Yeah.
Yes, speaking of somebody that has lived that reality, it sucks, and having one that costs fifteen instead of twelve wouldn't really change how I feel on my insides that much now.
So there you know what, I know. I could play Legacy and I could go like Omniscience emer cool show and tell Omniscients memorical. I know that that's a deck, so maybe that's where I go and use my emoric cools.
I think I got two of them. Four Oh yeah yeah, foils.
Alternate arts yep, hell yeah, brother yeah buddy, okay a ryosra Tommy ascended this flippy Dippy card.
I used to play this card.
Actually it's a I think it's a something something for blue one.
It doesn't really matter what.
It does initially, but when you cast a fourth spell of the turn, it flips over and on the bottom half that's where it gets egregious, where it counters the first spell played by each opponent on each turn.
And it stops being a creature.
Very important, yes.
That in that it it just a legendary enchantment at that point.
Yeah, man, Like I'm telling you, every time I played that, it flipped over the turn I played.
It, and every time that happened, I won that game. Because it just.
If you do it early enough, it essentially stops your opponents from doing anything but play land. And then for the rest you gotta wait until they get to the point where you're casting two spells a turn and they have to like start picking which of their stuff they want to like essentially.
Sacrifice or to try and get around it.
It's you know what's so fantastic about this that is so hard to beat is if if it's my turn and I try to cast a creature, it gets countered and then I have to cast a second creature. So whatever I do is throwaway. But then on your turn, if you're attacking me and I go sorts to plowshares, it actually gets countered again. My first spell on each turn is countered, so I gotta go like bullshit throw away instant speed. And then, oh my god, this car
is so hard to play through. I remember when it uh when it got banned as a commander, right, it was banned as a commander, and I I had a foil one in my Grand Arbiter deck of course. Yeah, and I had a foil one in my Barren Master Wizard deck that blinked ammer Quillan Academy before that, because I was a piece of shit, And man, I can definitely see why it's banned. It just changes the game into like everything you have to do everything twice.
It warps the whole game around it in the same manner that HEROBI does, but in a more like brutal.
Game up way.
Yeah, stay banned. Absolutely, Keep Coalition Victory off the band list, absolutely, all right, Falling Star, that's another dick sterity dexterity. Okay, fast bond, here we go.
I'm fine to leave that one on that bond. Baby, Our local lands player. Aiden was that. He looked at me like this, you.
Think fast Bond should be on banned? What are you fucking high?
Yes, that's exactly yes, he said. I'm the lands player and I don't want it. Okay, So it's an enchantment for green Yep. You can play any number of lands per.
Turn, correct, but after your first.
Regular ass land drop, it's one life per land you put into play. Yes, what if you have like what if you have cards that say you could play an extra land per turn?
You would take one each? Oh?
You still do? You still take damage even though you can play two.
Loungdu unless they've rated it. I can't see why they would.
I don't care. It's still powerful. It still does what you want it to do.
Yeah, and you have four And the reason that it's banned initially is like whoa, what if you have a hand with seven land in it, then your top decking and you might top deck more land and it didn't do anything for you. You always have your commander in the command zone, you know what I mean? You could go land fast bond land land land land commander turned.
One, Yes, and you're off to the races, right.
Yeah. You could also do something like necropotence or ad nauseum and draw twenty five cards fast bond, put twenty five land onto play into play. If you're a lands player, like, that's one hundred percent what I would do in my lands deck.
You could play scoot Swarm in one of those bounce those Kru lands that bounce themselves back to your hand from ramnuic.
Oh my god. And if you have a if you have a soul sister in play, like an essence Warden because you know it's also green like scoot Swarm and fast Bond. And if you have a Careu land and they make those in monocolor they're from Mirage, look them up. It gives you green and one instead of two different colors, yep. Or you could do the colorless one and you could just infinite bounce and replay and gain life when scoot
Swarms come into the battlefield. Yeah, so that that would be a combo that you could do as early as turn two, turn turn one. If you're playing like Moxes and shit, you could do that combo turn one.
It's wild so fast fast Bond can cough flash also for.
Off flash that ruined ceh for a while that was okay, this was a posterity band, though this was a band because CEDH players wanted it banned. It's it's a blue and one instant. You have to sacrifice a creature to put a creature from your hand onto the battlefield.
Right, you put a creature into play, Oh, and then you have to sacrifice it unless you pay its converted man acost minus blue and one.
Yeah, by the end of the turn or whatever.
Right right? Then?
Oh, so you get your ETB and then your guy fucks off because you don't care. Correct, you'd put in a protein hulk and then which it would immediately die, and then you search for seven cmc worth of creatures from your deck. And those seven cmc worth of creatures is like three or four creatures that all combo together instantly.
Yes, yes, that, and I'm gonna I would say leave it on the band list because the CDCH guys asked for it to be put on the band list. And if they're the ones asking for it, who were we to who are we to argue with them?
Nobody I don't think is playing flash fairly. And the CDH people wanted it on there because it was ruining their format because their format plays all all the tutors. They just find Flash in the first couple turns, you top deck Flash with all your free manner ROCs. You basically instantly win on turn one. So I was gonna leave it on the list because CDH guys wanted on the list for the same reason as you, Yep, gifts un.
Given, gifts un given.
We had a a I wouldn't say a lively debate, but lots of discussion about it. It's a an instant for blue three. Yeah, I think it's blue three. You search your library for four cards with different names yep, and opponent puts two of them into your hand and two of them into your band. I actually think it's worded. Two of them go into your they pick two, those two go to your graveyard, and the other two go into your hand.
Target. Opponent chooses two of those cards, put the chosen cards into your yard and the rest into your hand.
There we go and up to four cards.
And what you find is your combo pieces and then reanimation pieces for your combo pieces and win.
Or you just find four of the exact same thing, like four regrowth effects, because you already have something in your graveyard that you want.
Yeah, yeah.
And I remember the first time I got gifts un given by my friend Mitch. He searched for regrowth, yog moths, will, black lotus, and mox pearl. That's what he searched for. And I'm like, oh, fuck, I don't know. I've never even seen a black lotus before. This is pretty cool. And I'm like, I don't know.
I guess I'll just lose.
I guess whatever I put in, you're just gonna get back, right, And he's like, yeah, that's exactly why I picked two things that get me stuffed back for my graveyard.
And the yogmoths Will would have made him for Manu, because he would have got his lotus and his fricking mox back and his regrowth twice if I gave him the fricking regrowth and the yog moths will.
Man that's good.
Give them given though. I think, honestly, I think that I think he keep.
I think you unbanned that card. I'd be open to trying it, honestly. And I think that some of the guys that we were talking to yesterday was also on that kind of same wavelength where we could we could maybe try it.
The thing about Gifts un Given is just like Flash, nobody would use it fairly. I can think of exactly one deck that I would put it in, and it exactly is going to get me graveyard guitar backers and my combo piece. That's the only thing that that card will ever find.
And honestly, I probably wouldn't even play it.
I honestly wouldn't I own a couple and I wouldn't play it if.
It was unbanned. I'm not aching to play that card.
So I would have a fucking force, a will, and a Pact of Negation in my hand, and on your end of turn, I would cast Gifts Ungiven, and I would search for Graveyard Guitar Backers and Maddening Caciphonium a brewvac deck, and I am playing that card next turn. And there's nothing that you can do about it because I have two free counter spells for backup for both these spells.
There it is.
That's like, that's how it's gonna get used. And even though that's the case, I would still say, Hey, let's maybe unban this. How different really is this than Demonic Tutor for the same card.
Well, you get four cards instead of one. Ah, that's what makes it different.
And it's an instant. It is an instant. It is an instant. But you do have to do some work. You have to do some work to make those four cards. You have to have a plan.
You've done the work when you built the deck.
Yes, yes, you're right, And that's the argument. That's why you would stay banned is because it's in there, because it's gonna find my same shit every time, just like a tutor exactly, except it tutors for two things. Really a tutors for four, but it's you get two of them.
Yes, moving along, that one can stay fucked off.
So we're still unbanning Coalition Victory.
Well, if we're doing, I mean, Coalition Victory is gonna be hard to beat. And Bio Rhythm also.
Because yeah, okay those are our two so far.
Yeah, okay, we can skip Goloskiri Grizzle Brand staying banned forever.
Grizzle Band.
We heard hull Breach.
Here's the one that lots of people like, I don't know, I think I'd be fine with that.
Cock.
Here's the the unless hull Breacher is a creature for Blue and two with flash and it says on it if a creed, if a player would draw card other than the first card they draw each turn instead, they just fucking don't, and we make a treasure token.
Yes, very specifically first one. They drawed each of their draw steps. So if I brainstorm on your turn, hullbreacher, doesn't actually stop that because that's not during my draw step.
No, no, it does stop that.
Yes, sorry, it does stop.
Now I get three and you put two cards in your hand back into play.
It doesn't stop me from drawing during my draw step.
That's what corrects.
Yes, yes, so I can still draw if I draw any other cards you make a treasure instead. Yes, I get nothing.
Correct.
So, and the the reasoning for this can be this is fine as long as opposition agent is fine. If this is banned, opposition agent should be banned, and vice versa. That was the argument that we were that I was kind of presented with at the time. I don't know how I feel about that, because I think this is.
Much more egregious. An opposition agent is.
Uh okay, But I thought you were talking about Notion Thief, which is another card just like this. It's a four drop with flash that when at Etb's, if you were gonna draw cards, I draw them instead, right would you rather have you don't draw cards and I do, or you don't draw cards and I get treasure?
Like?
What is it like? If this is not fine? Why is notion thief fine? I don't know, don't I don't know? Somebody explained that to me, Like I'm five now it costs two different colors down in the comments, it costs four, Like those are both strikes against notion thief or strikes against hullbreacher because it costs three and is one color it's easier to cast. Yes, but man, I like, a treasure is definitely worth a card.
Yeah, but a card is a fucking card. But a card is a card, and that one's fine.
And you know what The other thing, too, is it scales accordingly a treasure the higher competition you go, Like if you're playing this off the game changer's list brackets three, four, five, a treasure gets more valuable because cards get cheaper and more streamlined. And a card is a card though treasures let me cast those cards that get powerful more powerful
as I go up. Yep, but the cards get that much better so like Notion Thief actually gets better in higher competition games, just like Haullbreacher does, just like a treasure does.
And here's how you do it. You play both.
Yeah, and you know what, I think, Notion Thief and Hall Bridger should both be on the Game Changer's list. There's one that I've never heard anybody say it. Why Notion Thief on the Game Changer list?
I forget that frickin Notion Thief even exists, if I'm honest, like it's been so long since I've thought of that card.
I actually get one and play it in a deck. You spelled thief, I.
Spilled th frong. Yeah, flash three to one black blue to if an appoint would draw a card except for the first one they draw on each of their draw steps, just like Hullbreacher. Instead that player skips that and I draw that card.
And they're worth proximately fifty cents or six Canadian dollars.
Yes, so Hallbreacher man if if Oppo Agents not on the band list and Notion Thief isn't, Thief, ain't even looked at both of those cards and Hallbreacher all Game Changer list unbanned Hall Breacher unbannam, Sure, unbannam, I'd care what C says about this one.
Unbannam, I'd be willing to try. And how many times did you actually run into the guy that was playing if people even play neck Whu's are anymore that? Like?
Wheel you with it on?
Like?
Does that? Did that ever happen?
Well? Wheel decks are certainly decks, yeah, and notion, he certainly goes in those decks.
Yeah, So yeah, it's already happening. Yeah, I own it.
She can stay on. She's the I think she's the ultimate feel bad card. Ye, And I'm perfectly fine with her staying on the band list.
On banner she got nine, I'm I'm letting everybody out of jail.
Nine. Nine is five.
Nine doesn't matter.
You could play nine.
You could play Iona fairly consistently in any game that you draw her in, And the fact that she could be in your command zone is.
How then you're playing mono white and your commander's freaking nine.
That's not as bad as you might think.
Now, Iona, for the people who don't know, is a seven to seven flying angel for white, white, white six.
When she comes into.
Play, you pick color and your opponents can't play spells of that color as long as she's in play cards.
That's a mighty powerful magic to gather.
Car Like if you have a mono green, a teamer and Gulgary or whatever Gulgary player at the table, you just turn all their decks off.
You pick all greens are gone? No no green for you?
Correct?
Yeah, and man, she costs nine. You could re animate her like you can put her in your angel deck, put her in your creature deck, your animator deck.
She was one of my Dredge targets and I played Legacy Dredge. Yeah that's good because just turned my Pones deck off. Yeah that's good and I got a seven to seven with lying.
Yet really good against more folk or goblins or burn all decks in like of that time she turned them all off.
Yep.
Yeah, uh stay banned. Yeah, it's feel bad.
I'm fine with her staying band you know what, I.
Look at her like she changes games and shuts like time walks guys like Emmer cool does emmer coool? If that's staying on the list, then Iona stays on the list, is my my theory, Like if I was making a bracket and like the bracket would be emmoricool versus Iona who who gets unbanned? Fuck? I think that one that would be a tough bracket.
That's a hard It would be a tough bracket. He let us know down below, you have to unbanned one. Which one is it? Yeah?
Man, okay, Caracas, I want this card on band.
I am fine with it staying banned. Throw white a bone, come on for.
For the reason that only white can play it. If it was a colorless land, I think I would be.
More apt to unbann it.
Oh yeah, I give it to blue and green and black. Yeah, and nope, just white, just white, No Caracas, you tap it for a white, or you tap it and return a legendary creature to its owner's hand.
Yes, yes, so it essentially makes it so somebody never has access to the commander, or your commander can never.
Die, or like, it's just it's very very very good.
Alex bought four of them because he didn't know that they were banned. Ooh, I figured it was reprinted in Lord of the Rings.
Why would they reprint banned cards? And then now we know.
I got my Caracas box topper from Fusion Gaming Online dot Com using well the promo code at the time, but today's promo code CeCe you holiday get a discount on your Karraki. If they're gonna get.
Unbanned like I want them to, I don't think they will.
I won't think they I don't.
I don't think they will.
It's I think that it's a more of a feelings stay band, but I don't know.
I think because it's only a it's a it's a white card and.
No, I freaking hate it.
I want it unbanned. Good. I'm glad you hate it. And I like Legends. One I think is my Legends one to play Legends. I think I have a Legends one.
Too, Caracus.
Okay.
Another in the long line of list of things that I want unbanned Jewel.
Lotus and Manic Crypt unbann them both unbannam. Yes.
Now they're not gonna do that because everybody offloaded them because they're cheap, and it's gonna be a butt hurt, feel bad thing. Those people I want to play those cards.
Don't be a coward. Keep your shit.
Hold on to your feelings forever, ye never let them out, especially your feelings that are called jeweled Lotus.
And if you're I mean, I don't want to call anybody a dirt bag.
But if you took a jeweled Lotus that is completely unplayable in any format of magic the gathering, anywhere, anytime, anywhere, ever, and nobody's ever gonna want to buy it again for any amount of money because it's completely unplayable, and then you trade it into your LGS that you play at and gives you a place to hang out and just take fifty dollars of their money.
Are you a dirt bag? Because I feel like you might be. Yeah, you know what I want?
Jeweled Lotus. I had this conversation in the CCO discord. If you want to get in the discord, support us on patrons, great old time. I had this conversation on discord, and the general consensus from everybody who was not me was Jeweled Lotus is a net neutral card for the format. It blows games wide open if you turn one and can cast your commander turn one, especially in combo decks
or at high power level. Yes, that's the exact reason that burst mana five man on turn two, for example, was the exact reason cited that.
It was banned. Correct.
I think Okay, And here's the thing. You only get one opening turn in the game. You only get one turn one, you only get one turn two. You only get one early game. Yes, and sure you could apply the same logic to middle of the game. In late game you get one mid game, you get one end game. But really, those two portions of the game blend together and end up just being not your early game. And I think that Juele Lotus in that portion of the game is great. I think if you're playing a five, six,
seven eight drop Commander, jeweled Lotus is great. Yeah, because well, like Talkshrol, how many times you cast talk show for eleven oh so many? Wouldn't Jude Lotus be great there?
Sure would also.
With a seven drop Commander like Talkshow seven right, yep, you're not going to cast talk shurl on turn two probably, especially in your Talkshural deck that is very definitely not.
A CEDH deck.
Yeah, where you're very definitely not playing any other burst manna right. I think that because it helps decks, because it's a very cornerstone type of card for the format of Commander. Never mind the game of Commander, but the format. It says Commander and command zone and all that shit right on it, and that's what it's for. So the field goods when you when when players open it and packs, and what it does for the middle and end of game.
I think are good enough reasons to unban it, because like those are those are good reasons to have that card in your deck. It also gives you burst manna, and that's important to some people also in the four and five brackets. That is a reason to unban it, the burst manna. When power levels are mismatched, or you're playing for money or prizes in a CDH tournament and somebody luck sack top deck opening hands, they're jeweled lotus and you fucking lose. I mean, that might be a
reason to to keep it banned. But also you're getting into CEDH, like you know that that's that's what's gonna happen.
That's what's gonna happen.
What's gonna happen, and it's probably gonna happen probably the same percentage of the time.
It's gonna happen when they unbanned Coalition Victory's gonna happen. Yeah, Transgild Courier Baby and whatever that card you said.
Was prismatic vista, chismatic vista, chrismatic omenic omen.
Yeah, there we go.
So the moral of the story is we can unban field Lotus and manacrypts.
I have them and I want to play them. Maniccrypt, I don't know, not unbanned if we want to limit.
The amount of burst manna like probability, I don't. I think I think that the man of Crypt stays bad. No, it's it's way more continuously usable, yeah than.
Some lightning bolts. Me every turn shocks you. That's three?
What his three?
That's three? Is three? Is three?
See lightning but one of the best cards in magic ce Ceco siqwatch not season three, episode one on YouTube now, Yes, sir, to learn how good lightning Bolt is?
Yes, yes, very good.
Uh leo old we're gonna go. We're gonna keep over him and Library.
Library of Alexander.
You don't wan to talk about that one, no, because it's freaking good.
It's a card that when we were we explained it like the kind of the the old guys at the table sort of explained how it worked and what it does to all the people.
Was like, I don't even know why it's on there, and then.
We told them how much it costs, and they were like, yeah, like who who even cares? Like nobody's ever gonna play that. It's thirteen hundred dollars Yeah, for a land that taps for a colorless or you can tap it to draw card if you have seven cards in your hand.
So when you play it in your opening hand, after you've drawn your card for turn, you just draw another card.
Yeah.
And then on your turn when you go up to eight, when you draw your card and play your second land, you just draw another card and it's your fucking land that's doing that. This card very powerful. I think price prohibition makes it not very out in the wild. I think it would be fine to unbanned for that reason. I think that if it was on the game Changer's list, you would you would see it so infrequently that it wouldn't matter if it got on banned unbanned, you know,
like whatever, limited resources. Now, this is a card I was actually I was actually excited to talk to you about, because this is this is like a this is like a stax card. Stax card indeed, okay, white enchantment. Whenever in a chant enters, each player chooses five lands they control and bins the rest. Players can't play lands as long as there are ten or more lands on the battlefield. M this is why you want your maniccrypt On banned, so you can play maniccrypt and a bunch of man
of Rocks and nobody can play lands. That's right now. Ten lands between two players. Like when this card came out and Exodus was like, okay, sure, ten lands between four players is not very many lanes.
That's not okay.
That's like two or three lands per person.
Yeah, that's I'll bet you in the average Commander game, I'll bet you that's turn two.
You're probably up near nine or ten land already.
Yes, because there's two lands per person per turn, that's eight. If two players ramp, that's ten land right there, and you can't play anymore.
Yes, you can put them into play though, you can put them into play. Yes.
So this is this is one of those kind of feel baddy ones. This grinds games to a miserable hault.
Yeah, like, oh my god.
It very definitely reads like it's gonna be in the same deck as Armageddon and other Stacks pieces because you're finding a way around it, Like I don't care about lands in my planes walker deck, or in my artifact deck that makes ten treasures a turn.
Or my deck that has all of my dudes taped for Mana. Yes, like, it's so easy for you as a deck building human to get around limited resources, whereas your opponents now are essentially just out.
Of the game.
Now that said, if blood Moon and other Mana denial cards are not on the game changer's list, but there is a rule that governs it in saying no Mana denial in mass or in the first portion of the game, if you're in brackets one or two or three, I think limited resources could be unbanned safely, and it's gonna go into the same decks that are already doing that kind of bullshit anyways, grinding the game, du halt stacksing destroying.
Lands, I don't know if you can have I wouldn't put blood Moon in limited resources on the same level because if you're playing basic lands in your deck, blood Moon doesn't do anything.
Okay, yep, like blood you.
Could play a blood Moon and have it do literal nothing if if you just and you don't need to have one hundred percent basic lands as your man of base, but you need to have a couple and you need to be aware of that. If you run into a mono red player and you play a fetch land, maybe fetch you a basic, and then their blood moon that they might play later on in the game means nothing.
You know what they did.
Resources does not allow for that.
Limited resources doesn't account for that, and it essentially especially if kind of you're at five, you have five of the lands and your opponents now have to kind of squabble over who gets the other five, right the Lion's share exactly, so like that could It's just it's a nightmare.
I love, I love. I know that land playing is at sorcery speed, but I love kind of thinking about like man like when when do I crack my fetch land? If limited resources is like on the battlefield.
And I know that this is magical Christmas land kind of town kind but let's say you have two extra Let's say have two land drops of turn sure and you can play lands from your band. Yeah, and one of your lands is a strip mine, so you strip mine one of your opponent's lands to bring total land count down to nine.
Then you play an additional land or you're.
Strip mine again, giving you a land, right, and then you just keep strip minding your land until you have all ten.
Of the available lands, like I you know, and I.
Know that that's not happened very often, but that's the first thing I'm gonna try to do.
I think, I think that decks that want to do that are trying to do that anyways. Right like my lands deck, I know, I know with certainty that I couldn't beat a guy, So instead of trying to beat him, I can play four lands of Return, and I got a strip mine in my grave bed. I'm just gonna start going to fucking town and I'm.
Gonna strip every single goddamn thing he's got until he can do nothing forever. He's gonna be nobody from nowhere and that's that's the game.
And then he's just gonna have to scoop. He's got a lock on the table, but I've got more cards in my library than him, and he can do nothing.
Yes, limited resources gives me just a way to really really enforce that, really enforce.
That by saying, listen, I already have ten. I'm the captain now, and I do this. I don't know unbanned Fu Lou Tree, keep them banned, to keep it banned.
All the mocks and go to hell now to keep them banned. Panoptic Mirror, I'd like this one. Panoptic Mirror is an artifact for five. It has X tap remove an instant or sorcery card with manecost x from your hand imprinted onto Panoptic Mirror. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy a spell xyle with Panoptic Mirror and play.
It for free.
It is banned because of cards like Time Walk, where you exile Time Walk and then at the beginning of your upkeep you play Time Walk for free and take infinite turns.
A just question malish Time Walk also banned.
Time Warp Time Warp, Time Warp You mean, yes, that is what I event.
Yes, that's exactly the reason it's banned. It's been on the Commander band list, I think since Commander existed because of that exact reason, like when we started playing EDH like in twenty and eight or nine, an Optic Mirror already banned for that exact reason. And like other cards we've talked about, nobody's doing anything with that scept that yes, I think that people don't play Panoptic Mirror because they're not interested in spending ten to do really anything. Because
it's five. Then you got to imprint it, and then you can cast it and you've got a way to turn. Probably, I don't think anybody's interested in paying that amount of manna unless you're getting something like an extra turn every turn, or something like an We're Cool, or something like a insurrection every fricken turn where you just take all the turn insurrection, take all your guys, they all get haste. I'm gonna do it every turn, extra turn, every turn,
and they're all mine. Yes, right, Like, I think this card stays banned.
Absolutely, there's no reason to do unband that.
I would definitely put it in my my Marvel Extra Turns deck if it did get unbanned.
Paradox Engine, Paradox Engine. We talked about this lots.
Actually, this was one of the ones that we actually sat and like we had to order another round of beers to talk about. And the the reason that we all decided, as as the members of the nation, that this card should probably stayed off is because it can lead to the three or it does. It's an artifact for five. Yes, whenever you cast a spell, you untap
all your non land permanence pretty good. So you play a bunch of rocks, you tap the rocks, play a spell on tap the rocks, tap the rocks to play with spell.
And what it often devolves into are these long bulls long turn where it's just one guy kind of these are the turns.
That we joke about all the time, like, yeah, the guy took a forty five minute turn, did one damage to that guy, three damage to themselves, and drew one card or.
Drew twenty cards and whiff because he didn't get what he needed. He didn't draw his tutor for his combo piece, or he didn't get his damage engine. I played Paradox Engine in my Zata deck before it got banned, and it was it's a non deterministic combo card where once it's online and the engine is rolling moving, you can do the thing, but it doesn't actually win you the game without help from something else. And that's something else
sometimes and usually takes a long time to materialize. So usually it's by way of like I'm just gonna continue, like making infinite manna and drawing a card when I'm trying to do a thing, but a lot of the man is usually colorless, and it's usually like a paradox engine, and then you got to usually find like an isochron sceptor and a omatic reversal or whatever it's called, and then you can bounce everything and like it's a whole
thing and it's bullshit. And it was banned because it's very, very powerful and hard to stop because there's no central thing.
Yeah, well aside from it except for it.
Yeah, there's no central thing. Though. If I destroy a paradox engine, you can probably get it back because you built your deck, right, Yeah, because you're doing it. It's an art of fact because it's a paradox engine deck and and it's powerful, but it's also bullshit and it takes away my agency to play the game. It takes away my time.
Yeah, that's the thing that gets me, is like those turns are just I hate them.
I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. Yeah, And did anybody want it unbanned?
No?
Nope. Everybody said at first, with all you could maybe like it was we had like could maybe was as high as anybody got.
Nobody's doing fair shit with this, and and even if you say I'm doing fair stuff with this. I don't have the combos or the end result for paradox engines.
And why are you taking a goddamn thirty five minutes?
Can still take a thirty five minute?
That's even worse. That's even worse.
At least kill me if you're gonna step on my nuts with high heels, like, at least kill me.
After you have the decency to freaking end it all. After that. Yeah, we talked.
We talked about prime Time, so keep a band. Yeah, okay, prime Time talked about that. Ready, I say, keep it Unbannon?
Should we do?
Should we do one more? How are we doing? For time? Their producer Gary, Okay.
You know what, Let's do one more because we have to get to this one.
I want to let's get Let's do one more, and then either next week or on the pre show, we're gonna do the rest of them. Because I actually enjoyed this conversation, and we've got to hope that people did too.
And we got some good cards coming up too, like watch the pre show next week, I.
Want to do on the regular show, let's do the whole show.
You're gonna hear some fucking good ship. Let us know your thoughts too, will incorporate them into the show.
Absolutely, this is the last one. It's reoccurring nightmare man, your boy Brando.
When I was building, Uh, what the hell, necro Bloom.
This is the this is the card you bought. I saw reoccurring Nightmare. Oh my god, this cord is so good. I'm definitely gonna buy one of This is gonna be so fucking awesome. And then I added it to my deck list and think, what's wrong with my list? Why is it read? Oh it's and it costs me like seventy dollars. You can see your credit you actually you did buy it? Yes, I did buy it.
I'm such a loose I purchased one and just got wrecked by it. Reoccurring Nightmare is an enchantment for Black and two. You sacrifice a creature and return it to your hand to take a creature from your bin and put it into.
Play only as a sorcery. As a sorcery because you know, yes, okay, yeah, So you bounce the nightmare to your hand so you can then play it again, thereby making it a reoccurring reanimation spell. Yeah, okay, that's That's why it's reoccurring because you can play it again.
It doesn't go to your graveyard. You sack a creature.
You sack a creature, return it to its on his hand, return target creature from your graveyard to the now. Can I sacrifice the creature and target it?
No? I can't.
I can't do this.
I don't think so.
Anyways, the point is its guard is wild, and you can see the recursion happening already. Like we'll use Coxslade extortionists as an example. You could use reoccurring nightmare to get the dock side extortionists to replay the reoccurring nightmare to sack the dock side astortionists to get something else back.
Then you can use the manner that you made.
With the dock side distortionists get back to dock sidesortions right, and you just loop.
Them and loop them and loop them and loop them. And there's so many ways to do that.
Plus ah, yes, you can sacrifice the creature and then immediately return the same creature to the battlefield route using reoccurring nightmare.
There you go.
So with dock side extortionist, you know the one that you go man a positive on too, I don't know, cast reoccurring nightmare again, yes, or if you had a haste enabler and something like a mana doork that taps for multiple man multiple mana like the the Guaya's Cradle or the Sarah Sanctum creatures that give you all that mana, or if you just had lots of mana and you put down a creature that buffed all your guys like etb'd and you could get it a second et B again,
like if you could go Crater Hoof Behemoth, don't sack it's a reoccurring nightmare, immediately get it back and then play my reoccurring nightmare and like do it again, like you get two or three crater Hoof triggers, because.
Why not this card slaps Yeah, reoccurring nightmare.
Very good card and based on that, like you can see why it's banned because it's hard to interact with two because once it's in play, your opponents can't like will just kill the enchantment.
Yeah you can do that, but I can activate it before you have the opportunity. Yes, because of how priority.
Were that's yes, exactly when it resolves, I get priority again because it's my turn, and I can sacrifice a creature and return it to my hand. That's the cost, And you can't respond to me paying a cost because I get my turn to do something. It's called priority, and then it's in my hand and your disenchant hits nothing, and I can just fucking play it again and get my creator a third time.
So it's degenerate, no non ban it.
And I'm gonna do it with Primetime like three times in a row because Primetime is gonna get me the manna to do it. I can almost go like Man of Neutral on it and get every land out of my deck.
I just wanted to do it to get my necrotic who's back? I want?
Primetime's got an eat b trigger, right, Yeah, So if I have a pan Harmonicon and a Primetime and a reoccurring nightmare, I get every land out of my deck. Absolutely. I do that every single time.
It will the tap n buy them all.
Not with fucking sun dial in infinite They're not or whatever that card is.
You play that No Amulet of Bigger, amult of Bigger.
Yeah, that's I think aainst the turn Amulet of Vigger.
Where else could we go from here?
Ryan, we could go down the list of cards, and we're gonna do that again next week.
We got some other stuff to talk to you. We gotta be going out of here.
I was gonna one up you. I was gonna one up you. Where could we go from here? Diffusion Gaming Online dot Com use special promo code CCO Holiday. Pick up all these band cards before they spike when they get on band.
I was really happy that I did not spend full price on my recurring nightmare.
Thanks Fusion.
Hey maybe the good unband you can play it?
Oh?
I hope so probably not, but uh hey, if it was up to me, unbanned, let him out of jail.
Yeah, it's it's got a cool picture on it.
Jeff Roberstein did it. He's a nice guy.
I've got eyeballs and stuff from got the flat top haircut.
That's it.
That's all I got.
Big thanks to the patrons, Big, thanks to everybody. Big thanks to producer Gary, Big, thanks to editor Joe. I know we went a couple of minutes longer. So I'm gonna get out
Of here and I'm gonna go with them, and we're gonna be back to finish off this list on the next exciting episode of Commander Cookout podcast hit our theme