In today's episode Ticket of the Draft Podcast, we have something near and dear to my heart, and that's the udfas man which one of these guys are going to be the commanders of tomorrow. I can't wait to tell you about each and every one of them.
It all starts right now. Welcome to the Tickets Draft Podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with Jess Guy, Jason and as always represented by sea Geek. This summer, seat Geek has your ticket to the best live concert in the DMV at Northwest Stadium. Seakeek, the official primary ticket partner of Northwest Stadium, and Jason Man, what's here. We've done the draft, We've gone through all of our stuff, but we haven't gone through all of our stuff because we still have
the undrafted free agents to talk about and discuss. And initially when I first started watching, I was like, man, I don't know, this group doesn't seem like it's as exciting as the group was last year. You know, you got Tyler Owens, you got coolson Yankov, guys that were like Ben Nickel, guys with these crazy, freaky athletic profiles.
But the more that I've gone through this, the more guys I've watched, the more I've been impressed with, I'd say seventy five percent of the free agent class, eighty percent of the free agent class as guys that I think have a shot to make waves and maybe make the roster.
We'll see.
Obviously a lot of these guys are developmental and it's up to evaluate for agents. But I think it's it's it's becoming a more and more compelling group the more I watch.
Yeah.
Absolutely, man, you love to get right into it, right. We're talking about udfa's today. It's our last episode, man, it is our last episode, last episode of the season. So it's sad, little tier. But yeah, no, what you're saying is exactly right. When you first look at these udfa's this year, it doesn't seem like last year's as far as like I don't I don't want to say talent, but it's.
Like there was some freaky dude like Tyler Tyler Owens, like I think he broke or it was close to breaking the broad jump record at the combine, you know, like Coolson Yankov for his size, heyway, he had hit like a ten Ris ben Nicol. We talked about him like he killed the the Big ten pro day, like it just there was a it was a different kind of timber for that group. And maybe that's a you know, reflection of the draft class. But this group, again on paper,
none of those kind of freaky athletic dudes. There's a couple of guys that actually have pretty freaky one or two guys freaky athletic profiles. But on the whole, I think you're looking at kind of guys that are here because of the film as opposed to maybe some of those testing numbers.
And I'm excited to talk about a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, you know this is also a.
I think it's a it speaks to the draft last year compared to this year. I mean, remember last year there were so many in that one, two, and three tier, yeah, that we didn't have this year. So you'll see more udfas that have more of the thing Like a lot of the guys that were udafa's last year could have been maybe six or seventh rounders of this year. Does that make sense to how deep much that draft, how big that draft class was with prospects, They're just a
lot of them all at once. Like you hear about deeper prospect classes versus less at certain positions, and if it's those primary positions, and a lot get pushed back. So last year there were so many quarterbacks that came off the board, so many wide receivers that come off the board, that it pushes guys out of the draft that maybe maybe Tyler Owens is drafted this year if
he's in this class. It's that sort of thing. But that being said, you're exactly right, Like it looks like the U at thefa's that they took last year were measurable kind of freaks. Like it was like this athletic guy that we can get in that you know, God only makes so many of them, Let's see how what we can do to put it together and make them
good football players. Where this year it looks more like, let's get guys with attitude that ad quite honestly had a tough road, Like it looks like they're looking for character traits here and they have good tape. Right, It's really interesting that these guys didn't get drafted a lot of them because they have good tape, they have good film. Now it may not have been this past year at college,
it may be years ago. There may be an injury that's in there, there may be like little things like that, but when they are on the football field, they flash yeah, which is what you want from a UDFA.
Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right. And I think you just wanted.
Up Like the way I look at Udfa's, I look at them the same way that I look at later on draft picks, is you want a guy that can come in and have a shot to make your team, right, just have a shot. And so like you know, I've been I've observed when I mostly when I played Udfa's coming in and you're like, no way this guy makes that team, Like there's no role for him in this organization.
And I think the one thing about this group of guys is when you watch them all, really all of them, you kind of say to yourself, like, there there is a there's a path for them to make it. You know, some of it's injury related for other guys in the team, yep, But a lot of them I think have the ability to.
Play some good football.
And so I'm excited to talk about the group because it does feel, again the more the more I watched it like an extension of the draft class. And that some of these guys are going to end up making and maybe making the roster.
Yeah.
I really enjoy doing this podcast with you, like this specific episode, because you're an undrafted free agent.
Drafted free agent, so these.
Guys, as you said last week, I have a special place in your heart. But I get to ask you questions about like what it takes for this guy to make the team, and like you got the answers man ten years in the NFL, Like you did it, and like you got to be a little lucky, you got to be a little good, right, So real quickly, but before we get into this, can you like give me a summary of how you made the cut? You got brought in, you didn't get drafted, you got brought in,
what was that like? And then once you were here what was that like? And then how did you make the team?
Yeah?
So I think the thing that I would kind of give every you know, late round draft pick or u'dfa kind of just point this out. I think it's better to be undrafted if you're going to be drafted in the sixth or seventh round, Like, it's better to be
undrafted because I get to pick the situation. I go to so you know, the draft ended in twenty ten and I was sitting there and a bunch of teams were calling me, like the Dollar Cowboys, the Chargers, the San Diego Chargers at the time, and the Washington Commanders, Redskins, and basically like I had a good relationship with the
tight end coach. He coached me in college. I played with his son for four years at UCLA, and he had come back and been like an assistant, like GA quality control guy to help out Rick new heisl who was the head coach, and he had just taken the job with the Redskins at the time, and so I
knew him really well. And then my agent did a great job of going through all the depth charts and saying, you know, they've got Chris Cooley, they've got Fred Davis, but everybody else is a free agent that they've brought in to break the team. So even though you're undrafted, you'll have a good shot to compete with those guys and fight for that third tight end spot.
Right, because most teams keep three tight ends right.
Three ends, in some cases four like Baltimore.
There's exceptions to every rule some teams keep too, but mostly I'd say the mean and the mean is three.
Can I also like Chris Cooley and Fred Davis, they did specific things. You're a little you're different than them. Yeah, so you not only do you have a chance to make that the tight end spot, you're bringing something that they don't have. Yeah, or maybe they have it, but you know, your specialty is something different than there.
And both those guys are like really tremendous football players. And I was very lucky to have the opportunity to learn from both those guys, you know, in different ways, right, but yeah, a little different. But again, like when you're that third tight end, you're not competing with those guys. And I let din't look at it like I was
competing with them. I looked at it more like I was competing with the fifth linebacker, the sixth safety, because you're thinking about special team spots and allocations and like how do you stack up with those guys, and like.
Can you develop a role on offense?
Because really, if you're the third tight end, like for the team, it doesn't really matter because they'll easily put up six offensive linemen in there and say, hey, we don't need the third tight end this week, right for even for depth purposes. So that was kind of my philosophy. And again like I made it because of my relationship with the coach. That was one element is I knew he was going to give me a fair shot, which as a UDFA is really all you can ask for.
I just want a fair shot. Then I think the other element too is like come in. And you know, we talked about this little a little bit on the Command Center podcast with Fred and Santana, and Fred said the word consistency, and I do think that's a big element. Is I just treated it like it was a job, like it was my nine to five, you know, twenty four to seven, Like this is all I care about is making this football team. So how quickly can I
learn the offense? How quickly can I show my mastery of the offense, and how quickly can I develop my technical acumen you know, like my footwork, my hand placement, all those different things. And that was that took a little bit of juice to took a little time for me to get there. But like I said, my titand coach believed in me. I had the right kind of work ethic mindset. You know, there was a couple of injuries. You know, Sean Ryan was the tight end who was
ahead of me. He got hurt during OTA's and so they ended up cutting him. I ended up making it. Lee Vickers didn't have a great preseason. He's really good friend of mine, but didn't have a great preseason. I ended up making it over him, so just and they even drafted a guy that same year too, So just kind of fell the a little lucky, little good. But again I had to produce, Like I remember my one
of my favorites stories about my rookie year. It's not a crazy story, but one of my things was like I'm gonna finish to every single football, like, no matter where it is, I'm only getting like six reps of practice, Like that ball could be an eighty yard touchdown. Like I'm going to try and finish in the shot next to that guy because at some point they're gonna be like, who's this guy in every single shot?
Right? And so pro Chris Samuels, he was.
Like helping out with the offensive line and there was a play where I was running like a backside corner and they threw it I think it was to I think it was to Terrence Austin.
Or something like that.
In the flat to the side, he ran a little bit, he fumbled the ball and I don't know how I got over there, but I managed to get all the way over there and recover the fumble in the drill, and Chris came up to me as like, and he's told me since that, He's like, that's when I knew you were gonna you had a shot. Is because you were just like that locked in and it takes those because it's you know, I'm not gonna be able to
catch ten passes a day. I'm not Santana Moss, I'm not Fred Davis, I'm not Chris Cooley.
I was gonna.
I had to find ways to make myself noticed. So making sure that when the opportunity came, I was ready, like through study and preparation and then also just doing anything to just be like, who's that guy, Like, what's he doing over there?
And doing the most? Yeah, doing the most, doing the most for sure.
Yeah. All right, So that's your advice for these guys.
Do the most. Let's do the most.
Be a little lucky, be a little good, do the most. I love I love your NFL story about like, seriously, every time you bring up like your stories about the NFL, how you got there, how you played through it, like the things you've gone through. Like it's just different hearing it from you, because there's this weird thing that we do as fans where we think we can do certain things and we definitely can't.
Write.
Like I'll preface that, like everybody that's in the NFL was like the best that their high school has ever seen before life Like that's don't you still hold your high school sack record or record? And then you're like, oh, Logan pulls in the third played in is like yeah, well he's also like the best as high school has ever seen. And so everybody that gets to that one percent the NFL is a tremendous athlete. But fans, including myself, I don't always view it that way. So I'm like, well,
just hustle. Well just like oh he we like to do this a lot. He's either good or he's bad. Yeah, right, And I guess the reason I like hearing your stories is because it makes me feel like I understand it, because it makes me feel like, yeah, just hustle, just like if it weren't for my knee, I could have done it like you.
Hear that all the time.
Weren't for that knee injury, I could have been in the NFL. Now that's not true. That's the caveat. That's not true, but.
It is like, but.
Fans get I relate to what you're talking about. Just grind, just hustle, because you're not born with this crazy gift. We're not, and we just work. We just hustle and like good things will come from it. Now, you were born with a crazy athletic gift. As much as you may not say it, but how big are you?
About six or five? About two seventy?
Yeah, five six and way too many LB's for what five to six should be. There's no chance I'm ever playing a professional sport. But I do understand the notion of work hard, grind hard, the underdog story, right. So I just love hearing you.
No, that's that makes me happy because it is.
I don't always appreciate it because you know, I get to do stuff with Fred and Santana and be Mitch and you know London Fletcher, guys who are borderline Hall of famer. So my story is not as you know, it's different than theirs, and so it's.
More relatable even though you're still an NFL athlete that's a one percent echelon athlete. That is like you're you're crazy athletic.
Well, I appreciate it, but like your Josh Connerly challenge, Yeah, just watching you, I'm like my hamstring hurts.
Well. Yeah, it was definitely the Camra angle. You did a great job film in that. For me.
I got multiple comments about the gasp at the end and how that really added to the aura of the video.
Well, the gas was in and what you did it was my hands free. Oh all right, let's get into the udfas I'm done, done, done.
Slawilkere all right, So I guess we'll start just go straight down the list.
What do you think, Yeah, let's do it. Man.
I'll defer to you because you've watched these guys wing.
Yeah, so I'll start with Timothy McKay Gardens. He stay and he first popped on my radar at the Shrine Bowl, and he was a guy that when you watch one on ones like was the kind of low key dominant right, he just like had a great feel for the pass. Pro like he's going against like C. J. West, who was a drafted player and kind of locked them down.
You know.
So he has got thirty four in an eighth inch arms, he's got pretty good movement skills, like for a guy of his size, I will say the one thing that sticks out to me is he's still I feel like, developing in his like core midsection area. So like sometimes when he gets a bull rush, it's hard for him to like fully sit it, or like when he's in
a double team combination, like his shoulder gets turned. But I think you see an athlete with the length and feeling pass protection that could be at some point a rotational guard, maybe a swing guard. And you know, given the right kind of ecosystem and environment, maybe he's you know, he starts a couple of games for you, so's he's definitely And I got to say this about all these guys that are all developmental, they've all got a warts
their game. Like I think he tore his peck at his prote doing bench press, you know, so he might not be ready to go until August or September. But an interesting guy, a guy that I think from an offensive line standpoint, has a lot of things you like, a lot of things you're searching for and especially if you can play that guard spot or play center, like I think it's a good fit for the team.
So it's depth, right, Like you're trying to get some depth here of a guy like you said that's developmental, can learn behind a Sam Cosmi, right, can add that depth to where like you're growing and if there's injuries or you need to step into a role, you got someone there that, hopefully for the next couple of years, can fill a void. And who knows, Like you said, there's all potential here. Maybe he can become a starter
over time. Because here's the thing about him, Like again we talked about tape, so I saw him, but I wasn't watching for him, if that makes sense.
I was watching for anything right.
Also from Inzay State, so I have seen him play and at six four, three twelve or three fifteen, only four sacks allowed in thirty eight games that he played. That's pretty nign good. And last year in twenty twenty four he had zero QB hits. So there's something there, right, there's good tape there. So maybe the torn peck is what has them fall a little bit.
I think he's a draftable player.
I think so like I think that in the injury is probably something that pushed him down a little bit.
And how much does guard matter?
Because in the draft there's such a value for tackle that you're are you more willing to take a chance on a less polished tackle because maybe with that and tackles so premium, then I'll take a good guard.
I just think it's this is just my personal draft philosophy. I think it's just so hard to find a starting caliber tackle. Like a good example this is Jalen Travis. We talked about him a lot on Tick to the draft throughout the process, like is he there right now?
No?
But the thing that makes him so enticing, like his film is probably not too much different than Timothy McKay. Like it's probably not in terms of like the wins the losses. It's it's kind of in the same bucket. There's some good, some bad, but it's just there's only a couple guys on planet Earth who can play right or left tackle in the NFL, Like there's just and you know, some people say, oh, there's sixty four. I
don't even think there's sixty four guys. I think a lot of teams are like, man, we need to upgrade tackle at guard for whatever reason. I think because the body type is more universal, like the heights not as important. The crazy arm length isn't important, So you get guys who like Timothy six Foards, a big guy, but not six seven like Jaalen Travis.
He's three point fifteen.
Jalen Travis is three forty, right, Like, it's just a different style of body and so I think that I think this is a good football player. I think, like I said, there's some mid sections, some waist spending that needs to be cleaned up. But when you look at him, say, hey, maybe not this year, but in two years, do we have a guy that could be the swing guard for us? Like that's pretty encouraging, and I think he's got that
in him. It's just about this is where the stuff that I talked about with my story and stuff that I've observed with other UDA phase is how much are you willing to grind and how much can you get better your own year?
Yeah, there's also yeah, teams like to do the thing where it's we're okay with tackles, failing at tackle and then we'll push him in the guard. A lot of teams are happy to do that, and so that hurts guys that are just guards because you're a guard in college, but all these tackles are going to go before you because okay, you need a tackle or you want to upgrade a tackle. That's a premium position. And then if
they fail, we'll just move you on the guard. So it kind of it just devalues the position.
Yeah, and he played tackle a little bit in college to play a little bit of guard. He reminds me a little bit of like Jalen Rivers, the guy from Miami to guard.
Tackle for Miami.
The thing that differentiates them in my opinion is they they're very similar players actually, but Jalen Rivers is just a powerhouse.
You know, he's just very strong.
I think the like I said, the core, the lack of like elite play strength shows up with McKay. But again that's what Chad Engelhart and the strength to up here is for, like, get those guys nice and big and strong, and you know, we'll see what happens because again, the stuff that you can't coach is there.
I think you're around a five to one forty.
He's got good arm length, thirty four, like thirty four out of eighth is great arm length, so interesting kind of developmental guy for sure.
Well let's stay on the line, but move to the other side of the ball. And that's Ricky Barber. Yes, not Ricky Bobby, as Fred almost says every single time, defensive tackle from Central Florida, Florida. But like Ricky Bobby, he does like to go fast. He gets off the line really quick. He's six three, two ninety five and twenty twenty four yearl was an All Big twelve honorable mention.
Tell me about him.
Yeah, So he's a guy that reminds me of they kind of a type at defensive tackle specifically, like they like guys that are kind of saw it off and just really explosive like Powell I think was.
His name from last year. Yeah, very explosively. And he's still he's still in the building. He's still in the roster.
And so you know, like I went to the Beast and looked up high So he's listed at sixty three. He's actually six to one and like right around no School I pulled up for this.
Oh yeah yeah.
But I'm saying like so, I'm just saying, like the he's he's a short squatty, really explosive guy through the hips, and he's got long arms, Like yeah, and I know I'm gonna say that about a lot of guys, but they do a good job of finding guys that have trade. So like for a guy who's six's one, he's got thirty three and a quarter inch arms, and you feel that when you watch the film, like he explodes out of his stance. He snaps his hands on people. You
see guys head snap back. Just with his arm length and his explosiveness. He is built kind of like what you assume a pastors are looks like six one five. He is a run stopping kind of master, right, so he knows like again we talked about the hand placement. He can sit guards down. He knows how to play across double teams. He knows how to like when we get a puller, I know how to ref at the run. He's got good feet enough to do that. As a pass rusher. Again, he'll win with power because he's so
snappy on the initial get off. But he's not like an elite linear athlete, like he ran a five to two. Oh you know, like his numbers aren't great, but that initial snap the initial hand strength, the initial like grip and kind of rip and kind of get to an edge. There's something there, right, And again he's not a perfect prospect.
He's not a great pass rusher. But if you're looking for guy that, hey, we need a body in here to like stop the run, I think his developer like hell yeah, Like I think this is a guy that like fits that mold.
Right.
He's like a guy that understands how to work the pads. What I mean by work the pants to get my hands on the pads, turn, push, pull, And I don't know if he's ever going to be a lead pass rusher, but he is a really good run defender. And if you're trying to then think about this for an UDFA, you're trying to find something that gets him on the field,
and that is his superpower. And if you can show that to be a superpower, I think he might end up mess around and kind of being that six to seventh rotational guy.
All right, let's move one level back on defense and let's do the linebackers next.
Right, I'm gonna jump around a little bit here on the sheet.
Let's start with Cam Arnold from Boston College linebacker. I have his team measurements here, so they could be a little off, like you said, but six one, two nine, he was a team captain, only played seven games, Like this is going to be a theme that's here. There's an injury that stopped him in twenty twenty four. In those seven games, so he had forty tackles and an interception of force fumble.
Here's the thing about him.
He ran a four five eight forty that's ninety one percentile this year for linebackers, and he had a thirty eight inch vert which is ninety three percentile. So explosive.
Yeah, and I think he makes his home if he's going to make the team as a special teams guy.
Like that's the vibe you get.
He's a little stiff for a modern linebacker, kind of like the high school like I want to go downhill, I want to hit stuff, I want to run sideline a sideline, but moving forward when he's got a backpedal, not great, really stiff, But I will say he does show a good instinct for the ball, like he identifies route concepts really well.
He communicated.
He seems like he's a very smart football player, and he does flash quite a bit, so again he gets stuck on Blox with something we talked about with Pooh, remember the linebacker.
From all Yes, Like, oh, I remember, yeah, one of his favorites. Kind of a little bit of that to him.
Not ideal length, but a guy that can run, a guy that's physical, a guy that's smart. And I don't know, the linebacker room seems really crowded all of a sudden with the addition of like Caane Madrono and all that kind of stuff. But I like them, and I think he adds value as a teams player potentially, so interesting kind of developmental role, kind of piece, you know what I mean with.
These linebackers that they're bringing in, like you said special teams and how Caine is built kind of like a safety linebacker hybrid, Like do you think that their linebacker is Like when we say linebacker, we think London Fletcher, we think Bobby Wagner, like you think that traditional build, And like this defense looks like it's moving more towards like this hybrid. They're just calling it linebacker now and
that's great for special teams and situational things. Is that do you feel like it's moving that way?
I think so, But I think instead of thinking of like cam Arnold, he's a little bit different. He's like kind of he's six foot six to one on the BC's six foot like everyone's adding an inch or taking away an inch. He's about two thirty so kind of a shorter, squatty build kind of Khalie Hudson a little bit kind of reminds.
Me of that.
But you know, think about your your your Dominique Campton's, you know what I mean, your cave Madrono's, your Tyler Owens, Like those are the body types that I think they want.
This.
The reason I say special teams is because he feels like a hammer head special teams linebacker. Right, they could come in in a situation and play for you on defense if you need. But like he just screams linebacker the way he runs the football, like how he takes on.
Blocks like more Jordan mcgeeish.
Yeah, yeah, and Jordan McGee's even you know Jordan gee sixty three, he's again.
He's bigger, yeah, Like he's very clearly linebacker.
Yes, this is this is a linebacker. Linebacker, linebacker.
And so to me, like the stiffness is a little bit concerning, but the top end speed is exciting. The vertical is exciting because that shows up that explosive. This shows up and it just about now like where does it fit? And it to me it fits right away on teams.
All right, let's talk about another linebacker, one of your brethren from UCLA. I'm gonna do my best to get his name right. You can tell me if I'm wrong. Is it Ali Kho?
I think that's right. I might look up the pronunciation.
It could be Caho, but I'm pretty sure it's Ali ca Hoo.
Yeah Kho. He's a linebacker from UCLA. He's sixty three. I think he's about two hundred and thirty five pounds. He ran a four or five oh you know, so fast forty. He's got long arms for a linebacker, you know, like he's got thirty two and three quarters inch arms, so like kind of fits that prototypical mold. He was a five star recruit coming out of high school, went to Alabama and transferred UCLA. He was a tough guy to watch because he's in this defense with Caane Drona.
We talked about what a good athlete is.
He's in the defense with Swassenger, the guy that went thirty third overall to Cleveland and Olidasion, and those guys like just pop off the screen from like a movement standpoint and a physicality standpoint. So he's kind of the fourth guy, you know, the fourth element and even their defensive line. At some guys that got drafted this year, the nose guard got drafted, the five technique got drafted. So you say that had a bunch of guys come off the field. So he was kind of behind those
guys in terms of rotation. So there'd be games where he wouldn't play at all, he'd play fifteen snaps. And so what I do see as a guy that has the length and the athleticism to play linebacker the NFL level, he hasn't done it at college yet. He hasn't really found his home yet, And I think this feels like an upside swing, right.
Ken Norton Junior recruited him.
Ken Norton Junior knows him, and that relationship is obviously one of the reasons he's here. But the length, the size, that's all there. You see him when he goes downhill to like take on blocks and stuff. He's instinctive downhill. He's still got to work on kind of keeping his and using his length of keeping.
His leverage coverage.
Just got a little bit of work to do, but it makes sense because he hasn't played a lot, but the athlete is there, and so this is one of those ones that feels like, if I was betting on a guy to make a practice squad, it may be him, right because as much as I like cam Arnold's film, I think the ceiling for Ali is significantly higher just because just from a measurement standpoint and a movement standpoint.
So that's the one I would kind of point to and say, like, if there's a guy that's going to develop in the mold of linebacker that they seem to be more comfortable with. It's taller, longer, a little bit leaner, but guys that can run. He can run, and then they kind of develop that skill set to fit the defense.
And here's the thing with him.
He sounds like a commander in the sense that his journey to the NFL was not easy. Like you said, he was at Alabama, could not find a home there for three seasons, but was a special team's demon there. So what is that?
How does that speak to being a.
Commander like staying ready, Like even when he gets in the games on special teams, he wants to be a starter. I'm sure being a five star recruit, he probably thought he was coming in and you'd get playing time and he doesn't. But he's ready and he's set to go on special teams, not quitting, not giving up. Goes to UCLA, does the same sort of thing. So like the mentality, right, I love football. I'm a grinder. I can be on the sideline waiting my turn, and when I get my turn,
I'm gonna flash. I'm going to do what I need to do. And those are guys that you want, right like, especially when they have what you were talking about, the measurables, and there are things that are there that like if we get you more time, if we train you up, coach you up a little bit more, we might have something special here. It might be a diamond and rough that's what you're looking for with you definitely.
Yeah, then that's exactly right, And it feels like a perfect guy to take a swing on. And so that's why not a lot of production, not a lot of games played, but the relationship with Ken Norton Junior, like I empathize with that, I had a relationship with my college to college I had and coach he was here, And if there's someone in the building who trusts you, you're going to get an opportunity. Yeah, And whether it's teams or defense, Like, he's an interesting guy to keep an eye on for.
All Right, moving back one more level in the defense, We're going to go to the safety zet are on the list here. Let's start with Trey Rucker. Trey Rucker, the safety out of Oklahoma State. I have him a six foot maybe he's going to be five.
Eleven, yeah, one.
In twenty and twenty four last season, he had eighty four tackles, fifty four of them were solo, which led the team for a safety two interceptions. He had a game versus Arkansas where he had seventeen tackles. Seventeen tackles in one game. That was a record for the school for a single game.
So, I mean, you kind of took the words right out of my mouth. Like when you watch the film, he is an excellent tackler, and I mean excellent in the sense that like not only is he very confident in the collision portion of the tackle, but he takes really good angles and he's very urgent to the tackle. He reminds me a little bit of like Mustafa from Wake Forest from last year, very downhill as a safety, understands where to fit and is not afraid to make
the tackle. And to me, of all the guys I watched, this is going to sound crazy, was probably the most Mandare commander in terms of just the tackle, the urgency to get downhill. You know, not the best thing coverage, not the best athlete, but when I think of what they value its safety and what they value in the defense, it's tackling, and this guy does it probably better than anybody in the draft class.
I mean, this guy sounds like he's built for special teams. So the way that we do kickoffs now, the good angles to good tackling put them one there. Yeah right, and he could he could be very solid for you. I think that's how he's going to make this team is just being a demon on the kickoffs.
And it definitely shows up with when you watch him in the defense, like again, seventeen tackles against Arkansas, like he's a man. I like watching defensive players who show a tremendous urgency to tackle the ball. Carrier and he's running by guys on his own team like he's I like him a lot, you know, again, like is the athletic ceiling there? I have no idea he didn't run a forty like we look, try to look it up. Not there, But the energy, the jews, the tackling. I really really like the player.
The next safety on the list is also I think one of your favorites on this list with guys I like evaluating is Robert McDaniel Bobby mcdee, the safety from Jackson State. Fred talks a lot about him on the Command Center podcast that's going to come out tomorrow. We go through some of these guys, but I want you to tell me why you like him so much. He's interesting, he's interesting.
Interesting guy.
And again, like he's playing at Jackson State, so not the best level of competition. Like the game I watched was against Alabama State, you know, so Alabama State they run like kind of what I would have kind to like a high school offense.
And so.
He's safety by trade, but he plays like the star overhang player. So there's times where he's like guarding a receiver and then in the same series, depending on the front he's like lined up over the tight end, like taking on pulling tackles and like chinning offensive linemen and using and the thing is like some guys really shy away from that safeties and stuff, but he uses his link so well. He's got just over thirty two in j arms, So for safety, that's very good, shitting offensive
lineman shedding using his hands. And then I haven't seen this yet, but I talked to a scout about him and he was like, oh, I actually saw him play in the box like basically linebacker, which he does in that system. And then he played outside corner.
Yeah, this sounds like the best player when I was in my high school.
Yeah. I can't remember his name.
I wish I could shout him out, but what he would do he played running back on offense, and then he'd switch over and he was safety corner if we were getting burnt by a wide receiver on the other team. And then every now and then he was like the Michael Parson's like I'm gonna rush the passer and get a sack or be a linebacker.
Guess what else he was?
He was our kicker really, Yeah, so he just the term athlete, right, He just you're the best player by far, so we're gonna put you everywhere. And that's what this guy kind of feels like. I mean, not to that crazy high school extent, but he's just all over the place.
And he's interesting because he's there are some issues with his game. You can tell his soul, say learning, but kind of there's times where it's like, who am I supposed to cover?
Oh? This guy? You know what I mean.
He's kind of working through some stuff. And again, the level of competition is a big deal. But in terms of like what I think they want when we talked about kind of the longer, taller, more angular tweeter type positions like Caine's a good example of that. Dominic Campton is a good example of that. Ben Nichols, Tyler Owens, like everybody they brought in.
He fits.
It's like, here's your Coppyn copy of those guys. And the coverage ability is excellent, right and the stuff against the run is excellent at that level of competition. Can he grow and can he develop that at this level? I think will be really interesting. So that's that's something that I think is is compelling about him.
All right, let's move to the outside corners Carlin Vigers will start their cornerback from Louisiana Row.
Yeah, so Louisiana in Roe.
And he looks apart man of like a Dan Quinn traditional corner. He's got kind of looks a little bit like Richard Sherman. He's got the dreads, you know, he's got Anywhere's number one. He's sixty too, hes two hundred pounds. They ran and the game I watched was them versus Texas,
and so obviously there's Isaiah Bond, There's Matthew Golden. You know, there's Gunner Helm the tight end, and he in cover three just has a really good feel for keeping things in front of him, reading out concepts and man coverage. You feel his size, you feel his strength, you feel his length. Yeah, I mean, he looked like an NFL ballplayer. And so after watching that, I was a little surprised that he wasn't drafted. But apparently that was one of
his better games from the year. And so sometimes when you watch a guy's better game, you tend to have an inflated perspective of what he can be. With the Udia FANM fine with that because ultimately, like that's what he should be right, he should like that's the best version of what he can be. And so I think there's some stuff in terms of urgency with you know, getting the tackles, physicality. In terms of tackling, I think he can do it. But a guy that I was
really impressed with. Obviously, the two safeties are guys that I really really like. But in terms of guys that could potentially make an impact this year, he's got to be on the short list. Like again, I like the play style of Trey Rucker. I like the play style of Robert McDaniel. I like the flexibility that they bring. But Carlyn Viggers feels like the guy that has the best shot to make the team in year one, whereas those other guys feel a little bit more developmental.
All right, And now to the other corner. Fentral Cyprus cornerback from Florida State. Going back to that theme. An injury in twenty twenty four, he only played nine games. In those nine games, twenty seven tackles, five pass breakups. But here is what I want to tell you about him. Santana Moss actually led me onto this in twenty twenty two. He was at Virginia, which he had thirteen pass breakups in twenty twenty two. In twenty twenty three he was
at Florida State. Maybe in Florida State seven pass breakups in the nine games that he played last year five pass breakupst Why do you keep throwing the ball to this indeed? Right like he is there to make plays on the ball. Now, only one interception in this college clear career. So he's not getting the ball, he's not taking it away. Maybe he just doesn't have that as Fred says, you either have it or you don't. Maybe he just doesn't have it. But he's right there, he's making plays on the ball.
Yeah, And I think he's really interesting because of the athletic profile. He's six foot one hundred and eighty two pounds. You're in a four to four to three thirty eight in vertical ten to three broad six' eight four to three. Cone that's, excellent and so you're looking at a plus. Athlete he's a six year football. Player jason just talked about his. Production you feel his, length you feel his
ability to match. Concepts, again he plays At Florida. State they play a ton a ton of man, coverage which to me is extremely important to my.
Evaluation you, know.
We talked about that on Our ticket to The draft episode With fred where we did, cornerbacks LIKE i want corners who can play man and can, tackle AND i think he does those things at an extremely high. LEVEL i Think Carlin viggers maybe has a slightly higher, ceiling but in terms of athletic, ceiling compete in toughness Like Fentral cyprus is an impressive football. Player, again the nine games is probably one of the reasons he doesn't get.
Drafted but both the corners are, good both the safeties are, good good football. Players and again WHEN i say, GOOD i got a criticism THAT i say that too often about. PLAYERS i think if you see them for what their role, Is i'm not expecting these guys to come in and be starters day. One my expectation would be much. Different if you said we Drafted Carlin viggers in the sixth round to be a starting Corner i'm, like, man we're gonna be in a lot of trouble because he's got
a lot of way to go in terms of. Development but DO i see a path where all four of these secondary players could develop into that?
Role like, AGAIN i don't feel quite as as.
Impassionate about the, linebackers for, Example but those four secondary, PLAYERS i think they fit a type of. PLAYER i think they fit a skill, set AND i think they have a mentality that seems to resonate with that that that infamous term you talked, About jason of being a.
Commander all, right let's go to the other side of the.
BALL i Think rome is done, here, Right i'm as saying a wide, receivers, right reide, receivers all.
Right so we have two of.
Them let's Do Jacoby jones wide receiver From Central, florida not the Other Jacoby, jones, right that played in THE nfl for a. While so Another jacoby sixth one by the, way six to, one not six three two twenty. Eight who knows that's? Right but, uh last year twenty two, receptions three hundred and twenty seven, yards two. Touchdowns so didn't see a lot of action as far as a. Receiver but why are we bringing them in? Here what did you see from?
Him, yeah he's one of the more interesting ones to. ME i Just i'm curious to see what the staff does with him because he is, big like he looks like a running back when he's got the ball in his, hands AND i, thought, well maybe you, know he played a little bit of running. Back, no that wasn't really in his. PAST i think he catches the football. Fine he's not a g. Athlete he's not super. EXPLOSIVE i think he ran a four to six eight at the. Combine so there's a little bit of you, know stuff
going on. There in terms of what is his athletic, CEILING i have no, idea BUT i like the. COMPETITOR i like what he does with the ball after the. Catch in the game against SHOOT byu thought he looked.
Like a VERY.
I wan't say, dominant but very competent football. Player and, again the production is, very very, low and so it's hard to kind of extrapolate off of. That but interesting guy, again Because i'm NOT i don't, know, like is he fast enough to play? Teams is he long enough and fast enough to play? RECEIVER i don't. Know he's a guy That i'm curious to see how he progresses over the course of the.
Summer, yeah, absolutely all. Right the last ONE i want to talk about is actually one of my favorite ones THAT i, watched and It's Joe Corey, brooks wide receiver From. Louisville six to three maybe, yeah six, three there we go six three one ninety five and he was first Team ALL acc sixty one receptions over one thousand, yards nine. Touchdowns pretty good.
Production, yeah and he's just Like johnny Smooth, Man, like, yeah he was a fun guy to, Watch like he's so interesting Watching Jacoby, jones then Watching Jacory. Brooks Jacory brooks From. Louisville he tracks the football really. Well he catches the football really. Well he's got a nice subtlety to how he runs, routes especially in the short. Area his short airy acceleration is very. GOOD i think he ran like a one five four, ten which is good for a guy who's sixty. Three he ran a four six'
five forty, yard dash so the top end speed. Isn't there so in the short area he reminds me a little bit Of Like, stevie johnson, you know kind of like good. Double sticks big body can protect. The throw but there's nice a nice suddenness. Tune game his deficiency show up when, it's, LIKE hey i caught, THE ball i made a. Guy miss and now most receivers. Go score it's Like now i'm looking around like who's going to?
Catch me.
Type deal but he's a. Big, body again he catches the f fotball like. His superpower see how he catches. The football he catches the football away from. His frame he tracks the football. Really WELL and i could see a path where he's a guy that maybe didn't tests, super well but the ten yard, splits there the way he tracks the football.
IS there i like how he.
Runs route he does a good job of like being friendly to, the quarterback uses his frame to protect. The ball so a GUY that i THINK is i think, IS compelling i think. IS interesting i think can make the team depending on how he plays. Special teams but as, A receiver i really like what he brings to.
The. Table, absolutely yeah he was fun to Watch and i'm excited ABOUT THIS udf. A class like you were, saying earlier it's not the athletics standout that last. Year was but there are some good ball. Players here there.
Really ARE and i look at that just and again we're going through those, defensive Backs The, carlon viggers the, central Cypruses the robert McDaniels From jackson state That The trey rutgers like their, Film's good like. IT'S not i understand why they didn't. Get drafted there's some, athletic limitations there's some, Age limitations there's a lot of things going, on there those level of. Competition stuff but they Look
like commanders football players and that makes me. Really excited do you want TO just i got any you want to talk about the mini camp invites or is that JUST too.
I just want to talk about one.
Real quick so a mini camp invite is the one that is garnering a lot of the attention as well. It Should Is, gabe taylor the younger Brother Of sean Taylor from rice Safety. From rice here's how we're going to. Do it The fred santana They Knew sean taylor. Very well i'm going to let them Speak To gabe taylor coming here and they know what that means here On The command, CENTER podcast.
I think and one they know, him personally they have a. Great relationship let's have you talk about him as.
A player because we've actually gotten a lot of comments about What About gabe taylor throughout, the year and we both watched them and to me it, WAS like i just don't think he's going to, get DRAFTED and i think that that can be kind of touchy for fans before we get to the point of where he. Is, Here right so now that he is going to be here as an invite to, mini camp let's let's have you give us your prospect evaluation.
On him so, you know he's, five eight he's one hundred and eighty, five pounds so not a. Big guy, you know he ran a four or. FIVE two i think was listed In the beast is what it was listened that tenness that he ran a four to. Seven nine so tomato tomato depends on. The stopwatch, it's very, very close. SO explosive i like the way. HE plays
I like i like the energy that. HE brings i think he's got a, good urgency like what like if you are an urgent, football player like that's, A COP like i don't give that compliment, to, Everybody RIGHT and i like that. About him he's he's trying to make, the tackle he's trying to get, down hill he's trying to get to the football as quickly as. He can takes decent angles in the past game, not great, you know like a little bit up and down and he's not.
A thunderous tackler because he's not a.
Big guy AND so i think about the small Safeties that, i've known Like The bob sapps of, the world, for, example right Or The bob sanders what's his Name, from indianapolis the, Safety, anyway sanders. Thank you he he's got this, great feel he's got this, great athleticism he's got this, great explosion and there are elements of, the twitch there's elements of kind of.
The instincts but he's definitely a different tier.
Of ATHLETE and i look, at again just look at the type of guys that they bring in to play. Safety here it's a very specific type. Of, guy right It's your. Robert McDaniels he's six, to two he's, two ten he's got thirty two. In charms that's not what this, is, Here right it's a Much, different so as MUCH as i like the energy that he, plays with there are some limitations to his game that are important.
TO acknowledge. I think and does that mean he's not gonna make?
The, Team no, because Again like i've seen dudes come in and they play with their hair, on fire and they figure it out and they make the roster and they become good pros for a, long.
Time potential hall. Of.
Famers CORRECT but i just look at HIM and i think there's a reason he went undrafted and there's a reason he's a. Tryout guy and, those reasons to me
are his. Physical limitations and he doesn't do anything exceptionally well to make, you, say oh even though he's a little, bit small we're willing to overlook some of that because HE does x. Extremely well HE does, x okay HE does, y okay but it's nothing that's going to push him over the top in terms of like saying we have to have him here for training camp or whatever the way that they did with these, other guys the guys we just, talked about.
And that's your.
Prospect evaluation BUT what i want to say on, that is like, that prospect this is not who he could be or what like the reason he, is here. They wouldn't so they're not just bringing him in because of the. Name's tailor they're not right and just say that. That's
nice they're not. Doing that he has a chance to make the, Team here he's going to have, the opportunity and that speaks to he does bring, something right like he, has something and there are guys that can come here that can work, real hard that can they can flash enough that they can make. The team so you're in. YOUR evaluate i just want to want to make. That clear we're not saying he's not going to make. The team we're not saying this Is, no look ap doesn't do.
THAT here dq don't don't do the thing here where, it's ay what would you even?
Call it like it chityse cherity case is. Not that that's not what.
This, is, no, No RIGHT so i just want to be clear. With that that's that's not how this. Organization's run that's not what he's doing what we're. Doing here he is coming in to try and make the. Football team and just like everybody else that's, coming in he's got he's got.
A SHOT and i want to, just CLARIFY like i like the energy he, plays with AND when i see a player that plays, WITH that i imagine them coming to a Camp and, i'm like they got, a shot, YOU know i mean that gives them. A shot so he comes out here and plays with his hair on fire and, you know gets. A turnover whatever he's, doing right there's there's. An opportunity i'm, just, SAYING like i don't think THAT the nfl forgot. About him don't THINK the nfl missed on him in terms, Of evaluation like
he this is who he is as. A player he's got a long road, to go coming from a guy who had a long road, To, GO like i understand what this road. Looks Like so i'm rooting. FOR him i wanted to work out it'd be a, great STORY but I think i think he understands, this too and Talking with, red like, it's tough, you know it's it's. Gonna be it's it's it's, a tough like look at just look at the depth, at safety look at the kind of body types they.
Have here it's it's just a it's a tough room to.
Get into and he had, other opportunities but he wanted to, be HERE and i KIND of i respect that.
So well.
It's possible and The reason i'm saying it's possible is because you. Did IT and i don't mean that as In, that no it's you've told me before that like you saw you talk to a scout or something and they do like Green or red, or whatever and you had like reds all the way down or something and so.
So yeah so basically the story IS like i went to a guy and he, was like this is my algorithm for drafting a.
Tight END and i was.
Like cool and it's but all these guys have started at some point IN. The nfl these these are what their measurements. Look like so it's, you know here thirty three, in charms here's this, four six here's the, two fifty here's the, six five and it's those. Are green that means they meet the criteria for. The Position so i'm looking at, The list i'm. Going down oh there's a guy him.
That's cool every single one of them.
Is green so over the last twenty years of him, doing this there's only two guys that have started significant minutes IN the nfl that have.
Been red one of them is. Your BOY.
So, I, UNDERSTAND like, i, like yeah this is. Exactly right like if you if he comes in and, he grinds he gets what HE would, i say got to be a little bit of good and a little bit, of lucky and so that's that applies to him. As well, so, yeah dude ten years IN the Nfl and i've seen.
CRAZIER stuff i hope.
YOU go i wish you would like get asking for a copy of that with the red and you should.
FRAME that i kind of. Want, To really i'm really Proud of that's a hell of.
A story it's an underdog story and it's AGAIN why i love talking to you through the. Draft process just your perspective is just unique. And different ten years IN, the, Nfl, man yeah that's.
No joke it's been a lot of fun doing this and it's crazy this is our. Last SHOW but i can't wait to watch, these guys, watch them, you know watch, the udfas watch the try out guys over the next couple, of days a couple, of weeks because this IS like i really feel for.
This.
Group man i'm pulling for every single one of. THESE guys i hope they all kind of can live OUT their nfl dream and play for, ten, years man because it's it's a blast AND the nfl is an. Awesome opportunity but this show has, been awesome and this is this is the this is the biggest we've ever. Done it hopefully next year we'll have, Us back we'll do a sponsor and do it.
Even bigger next year and watch.
More guys Thanks The sea geek for jumping on. This year that allows us, to travel go To The Combine senior bowl and things.
Like that.
Just super. SUPER excited i got to do this. With you very happy With. SEE geek i want To Thank.
Ryan yoacom, oh. Yeah yeah he he knows.
That this is a passion project for us and that our fans, Like, it like thank you to the fans, for, commenting, liking, subscribing downloading like the numbers.
Are incredible see he looks at that stuff so.
Appreciate, it yes but thanks so much to. Our fans thanks to him for knowing that this was in. The pipe we didn't have a sponsor, to begin and then he, was, like yeah but we're gonna make it WORK because i know that our fans like it and you guys. Like it And Then sea geek, jumped one which. Is awesome, Thank You. Sea Geek sea geek's. The best, so man this was just a lot. OF fun i had a lot of fun. Last year it's been better.
This.
YEAR yeah i can't wait For, NEXT yeah i can't wait for. Next YEAR and i can't wait for you To tell fred that he's the draft. Guru, again gosh that was such a dagger to.
My, soul well we'll think of another way to get get you back. On top that's the first thing you Lost. To fred that's true first.
All right but thanks for.
Joining us please make sure you like to subscribe and we will be back, Next year so make sure you stay tuned for more ticket to the draft content a year.
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