On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we have the edge rushers. Man, this is such a fun class. We got speed to power, we got bull rushers, we got edge guys, athletes, anybody you want. And we also have Bruce Lee in this class. It's a deep class. We love them all. We got a little bit of hate for one guy. That's a criticism, not hate. We're not haters. And then we've got five extra guys, guys that nobody in the national media is talking about, but
we're talking about them here. It's for the nerds. And then we answer fan questions. It all starts right now. Welcome into the Tick of the Draft podcast. I'm Logan Paulson here with just the guy, Jason and Jason. I'm so excited today to be talking edge rushers. But before we get an edge rusher, sure you guys like and comment wherever you guys can content. We got questions we're going to talk about a little bit later. Guys left
some good ones. We figured we addressed those. But in the meantime we're gonna talk some edge rusher pass rusher ball here, which is exciting. That's one of the most valuable positions in in sports at the moment.
Yeah, edge rusher is the most exciting class for me. It's one of the craziest athletes that are there, so it's so much fun to watch. A lot of people say corner is a crazy athletic position, and it is, but for me, the size that these guys are, the way that they move, it just shouldn't be real. And
the variety of it. We have smaller guys that move pretty quick, big guys that move pretty quick, small guys that are super strong, and it's just the variety of athlete and size that you find is pretty incredible to me in the edge class. So I'm excited to dive into this there. We still just full disclosure for everyone listening. I at least I don't want to speak for you Logan.
Still have a lot of guys to watch. But I went through about what is generally considered the top twenty edge rushers, and we'll be talking about obviously your top ten, so we'll hitdle on those. But as we go through Ticket to the Draft podcast and we get closer to the actual draft, we'll touch on even more guys.
Yeah, I know, I think that'll bet to be a lot of fun. And again, like with the edge rushers, I think from an evaluation point, it's always easier to watch them because they're in They're in the they're in the teeth of the play all the time, right, you don't have to kind of go hunt and peck and look for them like with the way you would with a dB. Right there in the film, they're they're they're
doing something impactful every single play. So on like a dB where you got to kind of watch three or four games to get a feel, you can watch an edge sure in about thirty to forty snaps usually, and then you kind of couple that with like reel and kind of get a feel for how they move and
what they do well. So I always like edge because they're fun, like you mentioned the freak athletes, but also they tend to be a little bit more straightforward in terms of evaluation, which picks makes our lives a lot easier, especially kind of on you know, kind of getting ready to get get in these prospects ready excuse me?
Yeah, absolutely, And just so everybody knows, we see your comments, we hear your comments. We have somebody that add a question about offensive line play and something we said, you're going to answer that at the end of the show. Also, someone was asking about re viewing Gabe Taylor, who's a safety, and we'll do DBS coming up soon, but I'm ready to get into the edge rushers. And the way that I want to start that logan is by asking you a couple of questions. It's what do you look for
in edge? And then I want you to clarify some terms that we'll probably be using moving forward. So when we use shorthand as a lot of scouts in the NFL as a whole uses somebody that's tuning in for the first time or just getting their toes wet in the draft and prospect evaluation process, they understand what those terms means. So let's start here. What do you look for logan in your edge rushers?
Yeah, you know, like we did the offensive line for you know, athletic traits and they're kind of to the offensive line, like her how they anchor. There's a little bit more technical hume in there that's important to understand and kind of make sure you make note of as you're going through the process. But for me edge rusher, sure, man,
it's athlete all the time. Mass, it's athlete one hundred percent. Like, if you see a big, strong, athletic dude who's physical and like's contact, that's the guy that you're looking for. That's the player that you got to hone in on and again. And like we've talked unch kind of in previous show, obviously you're looking for athletic traits, but in addition to athletic trades, you're also so kind of looking for and you can't have one in isolation without the other.
The redemptions we got on this list today, which I think are going to be really fun to talk about as to why maybe we're willing to look past some of the lack of either top flight athleticism or top
flight production. But to me, it's it's like, you want that guy that could have played power forward in the NBA pensive end, and you want to see a certain amount of violence, a certain amount of like I'm going to use the analogy of like a dog with a ball, right, you want the guy who when you throw the ball, like he is just one thousand miles an hour, hell
or high water going to go. And there's some guys in our obviously we've got the top ten, but some guys in the kind of the auxiliary five or six that we wanted to just bring up mentioned aren't in the list because they don't have that kind of urgency to their play. So urgent, athletic, physical are all things that you're looking for here. It's really this is like
bare bones, like strip it down. I think it's one of the easier positions to evaluate, just because it's like you want tall, oletic dudes who are violent and care about care about ball, and then really that's what it comes down to.
So let me ask you a couple of terms that we're going to use going through these guys when we describe them, and some of them may seem basic to a lot of people, but to others that are just getting into this, please bear with us. We want them to know what we're talking about. So, like the very first one is like, what is a bull rush?
Yeah, bullrush is like kind of what you think about a bowl, like when it's gonna smash into another bowl, like they're going to hit each other full speed. You're kind of running if you're the defensive player, like right down the middle of the offensive lineman, and you can set that up in different ways. You can take different angles. Kind of attack the outside shoulder of the offensive lineman, put your foot in the ground and kind of of get the tackle moving before you get engaged in the
bull rush. And what you want to see there is just nice tight elbows, you know, three points of contact to hand to extension, get that offensive lineman to really have to work his anchor stop his feet. And then you want to see either a bull rush that finishes at the quarterback or a bull rush to a nice transition with strong hands kind of pulling yourself through. So you want to see great hand engagement, you want to
see great contact. You want to see great kind of a recklessness almost to the bull rush to get that guy off balance. And again to me, when you're talking pass rush, the best pass rushers in the NFL year on year are great, and they have the highlight reel kind of where they do the Euro step when they chop hands and they get by and you see all those BT Jordan pass rush clinics. But the best guys have elite power and because the power kind of forces
the offensive lineman to stop their feet. And I think when you're looking at bull rushes like that's why it's so important to talk about these guys from a Power File standpoint is can you get the tackle to respect you running down the middle of their screws? Can you get them to stop their feet, because then I can work edges a little bit easier. I can do some of that hand fighting stuff that you know gets people Instagram famous.
So let's talk about that hand fighting stuff. The thing that last year lay out to you LOTU was so good at, and it's the finesse moves. Like when we talk about finess moves, what are some of them? What does that mean? Because when we broke down on the last episode offensive line, you were saying, an offensive lineman has to be prepared for basically three things, an outside move, an inside move, and running right at your face. And a lot of these set up for the next one.
Because these guys are playing chess. So if I think a bull rush is coming, what's a finesse move that? Then? Oh, he buld rushed me. Next time I'm setting my anchor, Oh here it comes a finesse move to my inside or my outside. Give me an example of some of those.
Yeah, sure, So a lot of people think of finess moves as just being hand moves, but they're also kind of correlated with your feed. So for example, like I want to run kind of right down the middle, I want to show you like a jab step or kind of like a one to two imagine like I'm crossing you over, I get to tackle to settle his feet because I'm thicking power. He throws his hands, the tackle
throws his hands, or the guard throws their hands. I can work a double wiper, so basically, like imagine you're a wax on wax off from karate kid, I'm moving both my hands simultaneously to kind of knock his hands down, kind of losing or being soft with my inside shoulder, getting skinny with my torso, and then working a perimeter move right and so you can do that. Wipers is easy because you can do it outside and you get inside.
You're just changing the direction you're moving your hands. And then obviously there's like a dip and rip move, which is which is really effective. There's a couple guys on here that have excellent dip and rip moves, and these are kind of like some people would categorize them as a ghost rush, but basically it all comes back to protecting my inside shoulder. As a rusher, I'm gonna dip down towards the ground. The tackle's gonna punch. He's not gonna get a lot of juice on there because I'm
low to the ground, he's high. And then as I rip through, I'm ripping through that contact and shaving that angle so I can get to the quarterback. There's that, There's like the fake long arm to chop. There's a whole bunch of different stuff they can do, but all of them are designed initially to stop the tackle's feet
and then you work to the edge. Because basically, if you think about it, if I'm a tackle and I never if I never set to power, if I never stop my feet, I would just keep kicking with you. So you want to see guys that take good effective angles to the quarterback and then have that suddenness to attack inside outside with you know, wipers, chops, rips, those types of moves.
And building off of that, Like you said, what is speed to power? Because that sounds like a combination of two of the things that you just said, So give me a quick explanation of speed to power.
So like for me, it's kind of it kind of melds or blends in with like a bull rush. It's like a bull rush is like a power move basically, right, But there are different ways to set up your power, and so for me, speed to power is basically what you're trying to do. So like if I take too tight of an angle, like if I run too closely to the tackle, I'm not stressed him. He's just kind
of waiting for me there. So then I run into a guy who's ready to brace, ready to grab onto me, ready to sink his hips, and ready to redirect me from the quarterback. There are certain guys we're going to talk about here that do a really good job of taking what I would call a high angle, kind of not running away from the tackle, but forcing the tackle to be really aggressive with their kickstep, so that when you turn and transition into a bowl or a power rush,
they're kind of unsettled with their feet. They're really stressing to move quickly to that spot to meet up with you. You kind of change the angle last minute, and then when you collision them, their base is why they're not ready for the contact. And it can be helpful, especially when you're rushing it's a bigger tackle to help kind of get them off balance and then make your power
move more effective. So that's why they call it speed vertical speed up the field to power to that contact point to get them to make your power move a little bit more effective.
Yeah, and then just a guy terminology. The way I kind of look at it is that there are guys they're two weight. There's really five ways to attack, right. There's the inside move, the outside move, straight bullrush, and then there's a bull rush into a finesse move like a spin for instance, and then there's speed to power. I'm going to look like I'm dipping and coming around the outside, but then I'm going to go right at
you when you look a little off balance. And some of these guys are really good at all most of these, or rather they specialize in one or two of these, most of these guys, and when you find a guy that can do all of these, that's where you get your very high top end prospects, which we'll talk about. So let's let's go ahead and get into it. Logan, Let's do your top ten edge rushers in this year's draft. We'll start with number ten.
HEO, do you got my god? Princey Princely excuse me, Unmanniela from Old Miss and he's weavers number four on film. He was at the Senior Ball. He's uh. I think he's like six four two fifty five is. She's got thirty four and a quarter inch arms, so pretty long arms for his height. And he's kind of built like a pass rusher right like you look at him and he's built to rush the pastor. He's got really good
movement skills. He's got pretty intuitive hand usages. It's not the most polished thing I've ever seen of all time, but it's pretty good and it's funny. He was one of the first guys I watched and I was like, oh, first, he's going to be a top five player just because
he's got this great these great movement skills. But I think the fact that he's ten speaks to, you know how deep this edge rusher classes, and you know, the peak might not be outside of Abdu Coller Carter, might not be the highest, but I do think there's a lot of really really talented guys that are going to be starters, and I think Princeley is a good example that the reason he's lower on my list is because I think he at times he lacks urgency in the
run game, right, A lot of these guys were talking about like they just play with their absolute hair on fire all the time. He's not hot and cold. He's really he's really reticent to run to the football pursuit of the football. But if he's engaged in a block, he's not super dynamic or in terms of shedding as a run player, he brings a great juice. As a pass rusher, He's a little bit of a one trick pony in terms he's always trying to attack the perimeter.
But the long arms his frame allow him to, you know, kind of work a long arm which is a version of the bowl work kind of two hands into a transitional rush. So he does have power, he does have speed. I think he's got the ability to be a nice situational pass rusher at the next level, which is pretty exciting. So again, good football player. I thought he'd be a little bit higher, but again it just speaks to the
depth of the class. And the reason he's lower than some of these other guys is because I think, again, there's some stuff, some questions I have in the run game. But for a lot of teams that's okay. Like I think when you look at like Nick Benito for the for the Denver Broncos, for example, like he was a situational pass rusher, pass rushing specialist kind of in college.
This feels a little bit like that he's kind of grown over the course of his first two or three years of the NFL and become a every down type player. I think Princely could follow that same trajectory and become very impactful at the next level.
I saw something that I thought was interesting where it looks like he hand fights sometimes at the point of attack, and that's kind of where like the quickly shedding the attacking the run game I think kind of gets lost. He just gets so locked into I need to win and just kind of stays there for too long before making some sort of move or shedding or taking his eyes to look at what the play is that's happening
in front of him. He's just so excited about beating the guy who's in front of him, and that's just a guy eyes. I don't know if that's what's going on in his head, but it just looks like for all the other guys that I watched, he just sits at the point of attack just a hair longer than others. But he has incredible burst bend twitch speed like he's explosive man, and he's got a frame that I think he can keep growing into. So when I saw him just a guy, what you're saying to me makes complete sense.
It's funny how this happens because I love hearing Utah talk about guys with your expert opinion and my just a guy eyes because I don't know what I'm talking about or what I'm looking at. I'm just a guy who watches football. But then hearing you talk about these guys and it's like, well, that matches up with the eye test, because that's basically what I am. I'm the eye test. And it's like you're saying all these things and you're explaining it in a way that I could
never fully understand all the technicalities of it. But Okay, all that makes sense because it matches up with my eyes or scene. And what I mean by that is I wrote down it looks like you could be an immediate pass rush specialist. Yeah, and that's a good role for a team.
Right, Yeah, And I think like you're always and I think there's tremendous value there. And there's a couple other guys like in the subsequent lists we're going to talk about, but he's he's got some juice to him, and I think that's ultimately what you're chasing with this position. We talked about athletes. He's an athlete. He runs, he can hit, He's again, he's got this tremendous ability to have have like this in eight feel as a pass rusher. I thought it looked great at the Senior Bowl and kind
of the bag work and movement skills. Didn't win all of his one on ones, but I thought was pretty dynamic. But a player that like he's going to contribute to an NFL roster and he's the tenth guy on the list, you know what I mean. So it just kind of speaks again to the class. And again, like one of the things about him is I do think because of his arm length, because of his frame, he can be more impactful on first and second down given the right environment,
given the right coaching situation. So you know, for a team like the Commanders, he's to me would be a great fit. You know, in terms of a guy that has pass rushed, you this good frame, good length, and just getting him in the right culture and with the right mentality because he does finish to the ball. It's just not this viole like. We're gonna talk about a guy here at number nine who is like, there's no question about his urgency and passion for the game. With Princely,
it's a it's your like. I know you like rushing the passer. I know you're really good at it. I need to see a little bit more on first and second down for me to be really confident about you moving forward.
You're becoming a pro. That's a nice segue into only feme olidagio from UCLA. You're so you have your eyes on this guy, I'm sure. But is he representing your alma mater? Well, Logan, tell me about it.
Oh my gosh, man, he is. He was maybe him and another guy, or maybe the two guys I enjoyed watching most. Like talk about a guy who loves ball, who is violent at the point of attack like his he's he's he's urgent to get to the football. I'm going to get to extension, both hands on the tackles, checks, I'm trying to pull to get free. Like there was a play versus USC where he like there was a
zone read. He attacks the mesh point and he doesn't make the tackle, but he looks like a like a missile, Like he dives at the quarterback, He like leg whips the running back. He's flailing around and you're just like that is. It reminds me a lot of who's a linebacker here? Number four? Jeez, forget his name already, luvuk Luvu, Frankie Louvia. He reminds me of that kind of energy in a bigger body. You know, he's six two and a half, but he's two sixty five. He's big, he's heavy.
He rushes at all three spots, rushes at the three technique, rushes at the end, and rushes at the nose guard as their spinner. And just Is is a maniac to get to the football and violent when he gets there. And so he's only played like you talked about after the Senior Bowl. He's only played like rush defensive end for like six games in his career. So for a guy to show this type of juice and enthusiasm and energy, like, oh my gosh, man, he is he's everything you want.
Like there's no question about his desire, his hustle, his passion, and he has the right kind of physical violence to his game that just just it sets you off, Like you're just like, I want to coach this guy. I want him to be a part of this organization now. Because of the limited experience, he's a little bit raw, he's a little bit stiff. You know. Princely has this
great bend and natural movement skill. Femi's a little bit tighter in the upper back, kind of a little bit more of a power type rusher, but he has enough juice to his motor that makes you say, man, this guy's going to be a good football player. Just got to get him with the right coaches and keep fostering this tremendous passion for football.
Yeah. My favorite stat about him is that he played inside linebacker and he looks like it. Right, He's got that type of body, big, supersized, just rocked up dude, right, and it's like, Okay, he played well at inside linebacker, and then UCLA went, hey, let's move him to the outside for the final six games of this season, and he just balled, just immediately started racking up the production. And yeah, but he's a wild man right, and a lot of that has to do with the rawness that
you were talking about. But crazy, This doesn't take a genius to see. He's crazy athletic and has a motor like that's what it is, right, He's just running on high.
And there are more athletic people. And we're going to talk about another guy here that I think is very similar in terms of play style. But there's something to be said for playing hard at defensive end and a little bit reckless. And he does that, like if you're looking at matting rating, like he's playing hard all the time and he's also a little bit reckless. So he's going to throw his body in there and be devastating, which is you're just going to get You're just going
to fall into a lot of plays. And there's a guy here that is maybe the most athletically gifted guy on this list, but he's not in the top ten because he doesn't bring the juice all the time and I think those like just bringing juice all the time, energy, passion, motivation just makes him such a high floor prospect in my opinion.
Yeah, I think he is going to Femi here is going to be a surprise on draft night for a lot of people because he's not getting a lot of national attention, and a coach is just going to fall in love with this. They're going to fall in love with that energy, that motor and the rawness the clay. And when you have a guy that has that type of motor and that energy and that juice and that hustle, that tends to mean that they have the want to right, they're hard workers off the field. That tends to be
a correlation there. So a coach is going to see this and go, oh my gosh, if I have If he's already this and he's I can still mold him, I'll take him. And I think he's going to go much higher than people anticipate because the coach is going to see that and won it.
Dane Brugler, you know who does the athletic stuff, has them already in his top ninety players. So it's already starting to happen because people are starting to be aware of what he does and the physicality and the urgency he plays with.
All Right, Number eight for you, yeah, is.
The Ohio state standout. You're gonna have to help me with his name here, it's TJ. Right, TJ to malau JT to malau JT. There we go, not the part I thought I need help with. But you know that's that's me reading wrong anyway. So he's he's sixty five, he's two sixty five, looks like he might be two seventy. Is long, He's like long limbed, long legs. He has this great kind of feel for getting to extension on blockers.
He's got this kind of silky smooth athleticism. To me, he's this is like a high floor prospect, right, He's got the frame, he's got the athleticism. I think he leaves some to be desired as a pure pass rusher. He's got a nice little spin move. He's got some decent power, a little bit sluggish to react to stuff.
But because he's so good on first and second down, because he's got the frame, because he's got this length, I think he's going to be a very very solid pro So if the commanders were to draft a guy like this, you feel really good about the floor that he brings to your defense.
I have a question about him off of what you just said. So you said he's like a little bit sluggish, right, I wonder if it's just he doesn't have that burst in that quickness, because he does seem to eventually get up there, almost like he has a build up speed. So do you think that's like an athletic thing, like a trait that's holding him back or is it a coaching thing? Is it something you can train and teach, like to get him to just be a little quicker off the burst.
Yeah, I definitely think he can fix his stance a little bit. You know, he kind of does a lot of stuff from a three point stance, so two feet on the ground, one hand on the ground. He's in a sprinter stance, but he's his butt's kind of low, and so when you think about getting off from a pass rushing standpoint, you kind of want your butt above your shoulders so you can kind of get that extension out of your stands. I think we could kind of they could clean that up for him a little bit.
I do think to your point that there are some technical corrections you could make, but I also believe that that's just kind of how he's wired. And so people say, well, Logan, you just talked about athleticism, right, He's he's athletic in a different way. Kind of like a fluid kind of basketball type of athleticism. Right, it's not super sudden. He's kind of like that guy at the YMCA who's always kind of crossing people over in slow motion and hitting
three pointers. And the size is something that you just can't overlook here in terms of floor, Like, he could play stand up edge, right, he could play like kind of a four down six techniques, so head up over the tight end. He could play a tight five if you need him to, because the length, because the extension, because the frame just brings his floor up so tremendously. So is he the most exciting prospect on the list? No, but again, floor is incredibly high I think he had.
He does have some upside as a pass rusher, Like when you watch him, his ability to get to the spin move off of kind of his power approach is pretty devastating, and he's able to create a couple pressures off of that. So again, not the most dynamic guy, but again, just a really really solid professional. And I like to bet on those guys in the draft because
it's mitigating risk. Right, His frame, his length, his kind of silky smooth athleticism, his physicality, he had a great play against Oregon where they're run in like a counter, they're pulling the guard the tight ends. Following he blows just straight through the guards outside shoulder hits the tight end, makes a huge pile, makes a tackle like I want that on my team. A guy that diagnoses attacks with violence, and you see the physical tools on plays like that,
and then they happen relatively consistently. So I really like him as a player. If he was a commander, I'd be pret juiced.
I'd be super juice because I think he's just all around good and he also he's got a high football IQ. It looks like I mean, he can quickly dissect what's going on with play, shed blocks, get into the run game, and he's just very smooth. There's something about him where he's not flashy, but he is just effective at everything he does. Honestly, I think this guy is going to be a breakout star. I could see it happening just
because he's so solid at everything. And I still think he has like you were saying earlier, the things that he's not great at are coachable and things that he'll grow into and learn, especially if he gets with a good defensive minded coach or d line coach that can teach him how to like get a little more juice, right, maybe don't be so deliberate, be a little more wild, like how we just talked about Femi, Like just add that to your game, change your mindset, just to hear,
because I don't think it's the athleticism or the IQ that's holding them back. I think it's like I think it's a mentality, quite honestly, and and if that clicks for him, I think he could be honestly a breakout star. Right, I'm gonna battle on this guy, like this is gonna be one of my guys that I'm gonna love watching the career of. And I hope he does really well because I, for whatever reason, my just a guy eyes
see it. Okay, so we're going to go to the next guy here, and that is number seven is Lyndon Jackson from Arkansas.
For you, dude, I absolutely this is maybe my favorite player in the defensive line group. And again, he's not the best athlete, he's not the twitchiest guy. But what I love about him is he plays the game with such physical violence. Right, he is tough man. He is going to play every play one percent. There's no compromising in terms of effort. Like you watch its LSU and again, Will Campbell is, you know, my number one offensive lineman. But he's given Will Campbell fits right just because every
down it's like I'm running right down the screws. I am violently extending, I'm violently shending. I'm violently running to the football. And he's a big old hoss. He's six five and a half, he's two seventy five to seventy three something like that. He's got thirty three and a
half inch arms. Arm wakes a little bit short. But man, he I when you play the game the right way, when you are like, hey, man, it's ninety minutes of me and you and our face masks are gonna hit and we're gonna they're gonna be really familiar with themselves by the end of this game. Like I just I can't get enough of that, man, I really cannot. And so he does that. He's a little stiff. He's a
little stiff in his upper back. He plays a little bit of high so all of his sacks tend to be kind of either like bull rushes to like hard transitions or bull rushes to kind of power rips, which again we've seen. I'm not gonna I'm going to compare him to Jared Verse. They're very different players. Jared Vers has elite, devastating, you know, game changing power. Landon Jackson
plays like that, but not quite to the same level. Right, So I just think, you know, if you put him at a stand up end, he's gonna set a hard edge and he's gonna make your life absolutely hell. He can play a six technique and can play a five. He was their stand up spinner and he's just running right down the middle of the center's faces. You can tell guys don't want to block him because of how he plays. In the Senior Bowl game, he has two sacks, he has a force fumble like he just plays hard man.
And again, like this is gonna sound dumb, but like when you're big and athletic and physically violent, if you play hard and you play every snap like it's your last snap, it's gonna save you a lot of grief. So everyone says, oh, well, Logan, how is he compared to Princely Umaniela you know from Old Miss Princey is a better athlete, Like he moves better, he's looser, he's
he's got more pass rush upside. But if you want a guy that's going to come in at day one and change your program and be a commander, then just set a cultural physical tone for your team. It's it's Land and Jackson.
Yeah, Logan, I think what we're starting to learn, if our listeners are still with us, which I hope they are, is that this class is good. This is a good edg rush class. I don't know that there's any like there's not like a ton of elite guys like or sure things or blue chippers let's call them that. There's not a ton of those. But the depth here is great.
Like if you're getting these guys, if you look at the list we've gone through already, this is your seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth on the list of edge rushers, and you'd be happy with these guys, right, So I think that that's real quickly. I just wanted to state that out, Like they all have like little things that can be improved upon. They're not perfect, they're certainly not blue chippers yet, but they all look like they can contribute almost immediately in some way for our teams.
Yeah, I think that's a great point. That's what's so exciting about this Edwritch class because even the five or six guys we're going to talk about kind of just throwing names out there, I think contribute as well given the right situation. But the fact that maybe my favorite player, one of my favorite players in the entire draft, the seventh Edge Rusher, I think speaks to the physical talent
that this group has. And again that we talk about how production and physical traits need to meet up, right, and some of these guys early on have just the most cartoonish physical traits you've ever seen, But again the production doesn't always match up. And so that's why, I mean, it's a really interesting class to talk about, and I'm glad we're going to talk about him.
And speaking of guys that are just kind of cartoonish, we're gonna get now into some of the guys that just move incredibly well. And we're going to start here with the James Pierce Jr. There are a couple of guys that are like him. He's the first one on our board that I think is his size and moves like he does. I mean, I'm gonna start real quick this guy's tape is just fun to watch because he excels at burst and bend. He's got great top tier
pursuit speed, he's got nice footwork. He's just he's got long length, he's twitched. It's like this guy's huge and he is an incredible athlete. Now he has some deficiencies. I'm sure you'll talk about him, but him, Mike Green will talk about later. Like, these guys kind of fall in the same category. They are all around the same size, and man can they move. So talk to me a little bit about James Pierce Junior from Tennessee.
Yeah, I mean he's like I think you hit the nail on the head there. He's kind of he's what is he's six ' five, he's two forties three, I want to say, and they don't. We don't. We don't have an official arm length measurement for him because he wasn't at the Senior Bowl. But we'll get that to you once he's at the combine. But kind of looks like a big receiver, like he runs exceptionally well. He has got good length. It's seemingly on film. He's got
good physical pop and twitch. To me, he's playing like his hand in the dirt, kind of a six six technique tight nine. I don't know if that's his best game. I want him at a two point. I want him attacking the quarterback as much as possible, because again he's not maybe the most refined pass rusher, but he makes up for it with just amendous horsepower. Right, He's a little stiff through his trunk, so that elite bend isn't
always there. But unlike Landon Jackson, who's kind of this power bruising hulk, this guy looks like he might run a four to four. Like he is juiced up, he's twitchy, he gets off the ball well, he's violent at the intersection point in terms of past row. The reason to me again, if you watch his what is this twenty twenty three tape, you're like, this dude's going to be a top ten pick. Then, for whatever reason, this last year in twenty twenty four kind of stumbled a little bit.
It's production's way down. Not really sure what the deal was if there was a change in usage. They rotate him out a lot. They have like six or seven guys there along the defensive front that are constantly like hockey rotationing in which was frustrating when you're watching the All twenty two because you're like, dude, I just want to watch this guy play like he's the best athlete out here, like let him play more. But for whatever reason,
they made a decision not to do that. I do feel like there are times where he's not all the way engaged in the game because he is such a good athlete. Like there was an example versus Vanderbilt where the guy, the offensive lineman kind of walks him to the sideline and he looks at him and kind of points to the ref and the ref's like, you got to get off the block. And the next play he absolutely just murders this guy. But I'm like, where's that effort all the time? And so I think that's something
that's a little bit that that's why he's six for me. Right, physically, he could be higher, but the effort, inconsistency, the lack of production this last year, the lack of that like elite elite bend are all red flag. Now he's twitched up, he's juiced, he's going to run fast. He can run fast to the football, He's got good length, So like I like him but again there are some questions, which is why he's not the third guy. He's the sixth guy on this list.
Logan, I'm going to be a little bit different than you with this, and it could just be because I don't see things the way that you do, in the technical ways you do. I think anybody from two to six here on the guys on your list, they're all kind of toss ups for me, and on any given week, I could shuffle them around. Like quite honestly, he looks I just as I'm watching him, I immediately think, like
Mike Green. The comparisons are there, right, and on any given day, I could have James Pierce higher than Mike Green. Now that's I'm not a Mike Green a hater, but there's just something where like he's getting a lot of media hype, and then James Pearce is at here doing things that Mike Green is doing, but he's doing it at higher competition, like I'm seeing it. And I'll give
you an example. This morning, I went back and watched a little bit of his tape with NC State where he goes up against Anthony Belton, a guy we really like, and he would win, not just win with his finesse moves night he won twice with a bull rush, and so it's like, Okay, I've seen him do it right, Whereas like a Mike Green looks a little more athletic, but I can't tell if it's because he plays with against lesser competition at Marshall or he's that much better
of an athlete. And it's gonna make me sound like a Mike Green hater, and I guess I that's what people can call me. It's not I'm not. I love Mike Green. Watching Mike Green is fun. Watching James Pearce is fun. Like, I just think that we're now at the point for me where if any of these guys that we're gonna list coming forward become commanders, I think they can have day one effectiveness because we have a
good coaching staff here. We have guys like Ryan Carrigan on this staff who you know very well, who is shoot, he's Washington's sack all time leader like and can teach these guys how to improve their gant. So like, I see a guy like James pears and I see the limitations you're talking about, and I'm like, yeah, get them here, as them be a commander and I'm going to be like this for all the guys moving forward, like there's just they're kind of all bunched up and I love them all.
Yeah, And I think the thing with James first junior, it was the it was the down to down effort that I was a little bit like, what's going on here? Right? Are you getting ready for the NFL draft? Like what's
going on? And this is where like having a meeting with the guy would be really helpful because I do think there are teams that'll have him higher than this once they get the measurements and what they get like all the GPS dad and all that stuff, and once you meet with him, like let's say the dude just absolutely bleeds football, right, Like, I'm gonna take him way higher because again, the physical tools there, but there were questions just watching the film and it's not all the
time where you're like, man, like come on, like all the time, be like this, do this all the time. And again like good football player twitched up if he's a commander, like you're doing on a backflip or I don't think he's gonna fall that far. I think he's probably gonna go the latest twenty five. But but yeah, man, he's a good football player and juiced up special special athletes, special rusher and I get again, given the right situation, I think could do some really devastating things.
And let's get into I mean, we know commanders, they love dogs, right, and I think Dan Quinn says dog ass competitors. The next guy on your list list is Michel Williams, And man, is this guy a dog, especially in the run game, and he has comic book length and movement. Talk to me a little bit about him and why he is number five on your list.
I mean, that's really why he's ahead of James Fears Junior is just because of that. Right, He's just big. He's bigger and stronger and faster than maybe everybody on this list despite outside of one person, Like he is
one of one. And he's really hard to kind of quantify because I want him to play a stand up defensive end or a six technique, But at Georgia they got him play in a four eyes, so he's basically playing like defensive tackle from a frog read stance, so like it's not even a three point stance where I can attack the line of scrimmage. I'm playing lateral into double teams with tackles and tight ends, and I'm just
totally negating this player's athleticism. But when you watch a cutup of it, go ahead, Well, I was.
Going to jump in and say, I think why they do that is because he is an incredible disruptor in the stunt splitz and gap attacks. So I think Georgia was like, well, we're gonna put you here because you excel at this thing. And it's like, I don't know that. I was just gonna say, like, I know you kind of see that as like I don't want to say a negative like you saw that and it's like, oh, I want to see something different. I saw that and was like, oh my gosh, this guy can do anything.
Yeah, And I think for me, it's just like I think they're mismanaging, Like I think he's probably operating at like a seventy five percent on the interior. I want to see him operating like when you see him on the edge, like be big and long and physical and fast,
like that's what I want to see. Like there and again, he's playing a four eye like he'll rip inside, he'll take on a block he does good stuff, right, but like when you watch the highlights of him and the cutups of him playing on the edge, like you're like, I want this guy here more. I want him to set edges. I want him to two gap this. I want him to again, you're not the most refined pass rusher in the whole world, but I want him just
to uncork it and let it go. And again, that's why he's this guy because I think he plays hard, he's physical in the run game, he's got the length, he's got the size. The production is severely lacking. He had an injury this year. Everyone was kind of hoping he would be the next guy. And again, just from the measurement standpoint, the way he moves, he should be kind of a i'd say probably a top ten pick.
But we're talking about him here probably in the mid twenties to the high teens to the tens, maybe somewhere in there, like because he just wasn't super productive and a little bit of it's the scheme, a little bit, it's the usage. But and he's a little bit tight like in the hips, so it's hard for him at the four eye. But I think when he's linearly on the edge moving forward like I think he could be devastating. So this is a little bit of a projection pick.
But I like the other stuff about him enough. I like the hand usage, I like the length, I like the physical snap to him. I like the movement skills, like watching him run like receivers down and dropping a coverage like there was a play versus I think it was versus Texas Texas where they motioned the third receiver to the flat and he was in a three point stat stands ahead to drop out and run with like a receiver, and it looked like he was fine. He
was totally comfortable doing that. So an interesting evaluation. Lot is lacking in my opinion, just from like watching the film because you don't get to see him do all this stuff. But physically, movement skills, mentality, it all seems to be there. I just wanted to see more.
No, I get what you're saying. I would say that, like you know, I'm a Penn State fan and one of the things that drove me absolutely nuts was watching Micaeh Parsons at Penn State being a fan of him, because they just mismanaged him and you could see it.
They had him as an outside linebacker that was playing that position kind of purely and very rarely pass rushed, but when he did, it was like, oh my gosh, why is this guy not a d end or at least a stand up edge And for whatever reason, Penn State didn't want to do that, And I think he no one knew what he was going to be coming in because he wasn't utilized that way in college, so there wasn't really the foresight to see what Michael Parsons
could be. And I guess what you're saying here is like, let's see if this is Michel Williams is I'm not saying he's in the next Michael Parsons, but I'm saying, like, let's see if he really can play at that spot, right, and let him go instead of moving them in other positions that don't elevate him, right, Like people say all the time, and they're right, Like, great coaching is putting
your player in a position to be successful. So it's finding out what their superpower is and letting them do that. Don't limit that. I think you mentioned when you played for Dan Quinn that was one of the great things about him as a coach. He finds what your superpower is and it's like, all right, let's harness that and turn that up. And I think a guy like Michel Williams, that's why I love him is I think I think NFL coaches and especially year at the commanders are smart
enough to know that. And I honestly think if he gets put with let's say he gets paired with a talented pass rusher veteran on the other side, I mean that, I think that's a devastating combo. And I would I would love to see him wearing a commander's uniform with Frankie Lulu, right, those two guys, Like, to me, that's a perfect pair. No, No, I understand, I understand. Yeah, I don't think it's happening, but I just it'd be. It's fun to dream, logan.
No, it is fun to dream. And I would have put him. I probably would have put him above this next guy. If the next guy. We talked about production quite a bit, right, Like, he's very close to being the fourth or third defensive end. And it's crazy to say that because his production was so limited at Georgia, But dude, he's he's just a special mover and he's big as hell, So it's like, you know, it's just
like God, like, what could this guy be? But yeah, the next guy on the list is one that I think is kind of maybe the opposite of this, and Nick s Gordon from Texas A and M. And he's Wor's number eleven. He's I think he's six three. He's two eighty right, looks a little bit heavy on film, but plays the game incredibly hard, plays the four eye, plays the end, has a lot more pass rush kind of nuance. He's got the double wiper, he's got the
good bull, he can spin inside. And when you watch the stuff of him at Penn State, which is where it was the year before, you see tremendous burst and juice and just getting after it. And here at A and M not quite as much. But the thing that made me confident in putting him at number four is that he just plays hard as hell. So he's a guy that loves ball. He's physicals all outdoors, he's gonna he's got the pass rush kind of bag of tricks to make him effective at the next level. I worry
about his general athleticism. So when we get to the combine, I'm really curious to see, like how do you run? How's your forty? Like what do the drills look like? You know, like how do you up when Mikel Williams is out there like like a safety Like probably not going to look as good, but do you look at least serviceable for a defensive end. But I really liked
the player. I liked him a lot at Purdue. Liked him a lot at Purdue, felt a little bit off at at t X and m hopefully he just gained a couple pounds, you know, enjoyed the cafeteria a little bit too much in Texas, but in terms of mindset like it, in terms of past rush moves like it. Just wonder about overall athleticism.
That barbecue is good down there in Texas. And I was gonna say the same thing I'm this is of this entire edge rush class is the one I'm most excited to see at the combine, just to see how he tests, because I wrote down that is he slow? I don't know, and like I don't know about his burst either, So I'd love to see in his forty that ten yard split, Like I'm just curious as to what it is because he has really great things. And it's like just his speed just seems to be a
little bit off. But he has great things. I mean he's dense, balanced, big motor, strong push like you're saying he for as big as he is, he's got really nice as we called him earlier, those finesse moves like the spins and the chops for his size. And I mean, yeah, he had ten sacks in twenty twenty three, only five this year. I'm curious as to why that dropped, and it could just be the Texas barbecue. But I think he's a good player. Again, we go back to it.
I think he's a good player. I know, like I just said, is he slow? That's all relative, Like is he slow compared to these guys We're about to talk about Mike Green here soon, Like Mike Mike Green's going to be a freak at the combine. So it's like, is he slow? Is like that's a I just want people to understand I'm not calling the dude slow. If I ever meet him in person, I don't want him to ever think that I was like, hey man, you're slow.
That's not what I mean. I mean for this class, right, because he is he's a very good player.
Well especially can change like compared to like James Pearce or Mike Green or you know Shamar Stewart who goes Abdual Carter, Like those guys are really twitchy, really bursty, you know, in a different way. And again there's a savviness and a physicality to him that you know, makes me feel good about him. I feel like he's a high floor player. And again, if he runs bad, if he runs like a five to one, he's probably playing three techniques. He's not going to be on the younger
as an edge rusher. But again, the physicality, the production that kind of powerish your profile with the other stuff in terms of finesse moves off of it makes you feel really good about him long term in the NFL.
I'm gonna, okay, Logan, go with me on this. I'm going to veer off path, but I promise I'll bring it back. What what do you think the how many of these guys do you think are going to go in like the top fifteen of this draft? A number? Don't don't list the guys you think will go How many edge rushers from this class you think will be top fifteen this year. Okay, so we're now leading into your top three here, so you have Mike Green as your three. I would say that the general consensus is
that Mike Green is easily a top fifteen pick. But you just said without saying it, Mike Green's maybe not a top fifteen pick for you. Why are you a Mike Green hater? Logan explain yourself.
Mike Green hater. That's strong man. So Mike Green, let me just say this before we get started about my Mike Green hate. That is so fun to watch on film because he plays with the I'm gonna say again, the urgency, the recklessness, the passion for the game. Right He's trying to make every single tackle. You watch him versus Ohio State, right those that's a that's a big school, you know, obviously. And in the first half, man, he's you know, chopping, he's ripping, he's spinning, he's running, he's
making pursuit tackles, he's physical on tight ends. It's all the stuff you want to see. I think the one thing that sticks out to me is the level of confet outside the Ohuse State game. You know, he went to Marshall and they're playing offensive linemen that are not very good, and he looks like an absolute superhero on film,
like absolute superhero. And then you get to the Senior Bowl and everyone's talking about the Senior Bowl as an opportunity for him to show how dynamic he is, how twitched up he is, how you know, explosive he is. And he came and he showed a lot of that stuff. But then you go back and I charted all the one on ones, right, char on ones, he had four
to one on ones. Okay, one of them was versus Connorley, right that everyone on there and the whole internet saw, right, they saw Connorley just get absolutely blown up, and everyone's like, this is it. He's a right if he's showing what he got to do. He has another rep versus connor Lee where he gets washed totally flat and doesn't look like he's even trying, and connor Ley is so unstressed.
Right then, Jalen Travis from Iowa State, he's big fellas sixty seven long arms three sixty five are three forty five excuse me, forty five forty five inch thirty five inch arms, excuse me, does a great job and just locks him up like kicks to the spot, locks him up, He tries to spend, mirrors him Anthony Belton, our guy who he just talked about how James s Pears Junior gave him fits when he was at Tennessee, locks him up,
just sits in him, tries to mirror inside. Belton jumps down, kind of hops to stop and would win the rep. So of his four reps at the Senior Bowl, I would say three of them were definitive losses and one of them was a big win. So everyone talks about him kind of shooting up boards, and the only reason he should be shooting up boards, in my opinion, is because of how awesome his tape is. He's got amazing tape. He's got some of the best tape in this entire class.
He can beat you, however, he wants spin inside outside, swipes inside outside, dip and rip inside outside. He got vertical juice. The one thing I am concerned about is when you watch him again versus Ohio State, He's going up against Josh Shimmins, who again we talked about as one of the best tackles in this class. Josh Shimmins looks like he's taking a nap. In pass protection with this guy right kicks to the spot, smears, locks him down,
and he does it three or four times in the game. Now, the right tackle number seventy for Ole State has a hard time with the speed. But like, how are you versus top flight talent? Right? I don't have a lot of questions about mikel Williams. I don't have a lot of questions about James. Like the question about James Pears Junior is consistent effort, right. The question about Michael Williams
is usage right, nix Sorrenton. I know that he can beat top flight pass protectors, right, Mike Green, I believe it because again your film is off the chain, but you have not shown me yet. And that's the thing that gets me a little bit concerned about Mike Green and why I would say for me that he's maybe not a top fifteen pick.
Logan, Mike Green is Bruce Lee. He's fast, quick, athletic as anyone you'll ever see. He's maybe undersized, right, he don't care right, Like he's his hands are quick and fast. He's doing things that I haven't seen in a long
time from a guy at his position. High motor, but here's the thing, right, what happens when Bruce Lee runs into Cliff Booth If anybody's ever seen Once upon a Time in Hollywood, Now, maybe Once upon a Time in Hollywood is a work of fiction, and that confrontation Cliff Booth isn't real, and that depiction of Bruce Lee never happened. But what if it did? And that's my concern with Mike Lee, right Like, I want Bruce Lee on my team.
I love Bruceley. I'm a big enter the Dragon fan, loved watching it growing up, love everything about Bruce Lee. Honestly think he could whip a lot of people's asses, right Like, I didn't think it was just show, right, Bruce Lee was good. Yeah, But what happens when you meet somebody who's bigger, stronger, and doesn't care about the rules of mixed martial arts or karate and just kung fu.
He's gonna take a barstool right like and fight you dirty, right which these big dudes, I'm not saying they're dirty, but I'm saying, like Josh Simmons, he's a big dude that doesn't care about your quick hands. He's just going to put his big mits on you. And say good luck. Now, I think Mike Green is going to have a successful career. Oh yeah, And I think Mike Green's gonna have a successful career. But you told me about the Senior Bowl thing.
I bought into the hype of Mike Green blowing up Connolly on that play, and I want our fans if you don't believe logan right, there is YouTube clips of every one on one for Mike Green. You can search Mike Green Senior Bowl and you will get every single one on one. Go watch it and see for yourself, because he has that big play, But there's also other ones where it's like, eh, okay. So that's my concern.
That's it. That's my only concern. But I think he's Bruce Lee and I would love Bruce Lye on my team, And I honestly think that he also can grow into these things, right, he can learn how to use these things, these excellent moves. He has to be effective against bigger, stronger guys and higher level competition. So the only reason I maybe sound like a Mike Green hater at the end of the day is because I just don't think that the national media and what they're saying about him
like top fifteen, he's ready to go. I think he's still developmental. He has a lot of tools in the finesse department, but I still think he's developmental. And you have to understand if you're picking an edge rusher in
the top fifteen, top ten. Even I've seen some guys have him go in the top ten and mock drafts like that's a that's a that's a lottery ticket, and you got to be careful, right, it's about value and as you say, risk assessment assessment right, and risk is a version right, Like that's my thing with Mike Green. I still think he may be the number two, number three,
number four, number five best pass rusher. I don't know what vari stays today, but I wouldn't sit back and say, oh, he had a great play at the Senior Bowl and he dominated at Marshall. So here's our number two guy.
Yeah, and he's he's our third guy because his film is that good. I mean, it's it's incredible, man like, he's he's an absolute Yeah, he's an absolute maniac. Like running down screens, he's fitting runs, he's killing guards, he's getting quarterbacks like play action, pass his shot and shed stuff. Is great, but you know, he has thirty two inch arms, which is a little bit short for a pass rusher.
He's sixty three, he's two fifty, So again, the lack of ideal length is something that's a little bit concerning. But I mean, the film is, the film speaks for herself. It's just versus top flight guys. How are you going to look? And I think the other two guys in the list just did better versus top flight competition, quite honestly.
And let's talk about him. Let's do your number two, which is Shamar Stewart the other end at Texas A and M.
Yeah. I mean he was a guy that I first watched before the Senior Bowl and I was like, man, he's built in a lab. You know, he's six ' five and an eighth. He's two hundred and eighty two pounds, I want to say, and he's got thirty four thirty three and three force arms like he is a and he's built different, like he's jacked. And when you watch him,
like he's big, he's got elite power, elite frame. He plays hard, like there was a play versus Mississippi State where the running back gets or they hit like a little shallow cross and it's going up the field. He from the defensive end spot after rushing the path, runs the receiver down and makes the tackle forty yards away. He comes out of the stack. On screens, he's you know,
blowing up stuff in the run game. And then at the Senior Bowl, man, he just looked physically dominant amongst some of you know, Emery Jones my tenth tackle on the list, a guy that I really like. He made him look like he wasn't even on the field, right, Like he just big, strong, physical everything you want, mentality is right, frames right. The one thing that really sticks out is there's a lack of technical development as a pass rusher. And how many secks did you have last year, Jason One?
Yeah, yeah, it's it's shocking one sack.
So that's something again we talk about it on this show all the time, athlete effort and production, and so the athlete and the effort are there. Like I love his vibe. Like at the Senior Bowl he has this rep versu Emory Jones where he beats him off the edge, knocks the ball of the quarterback's hand, like yells to the crowd like like I'm him all this stuff going crazy and like that. I like, I love that about him. But the production it just wasn't there to match the frame.
And I think that's I'm betting on the fact that that's a outlier not the rule. But yeah, man, love him, love the tape, love the effort just to productions that all the way there.
Yeah, and it was technically one and a half sack. But here's the thing, though, his tackles went up pretty pretty significantly, Like he had thirty one total tackles as compared to eleven year before. Like, I think that he showed improvement in run stopping, and I think he's an a plus run stopper. I think he has a good
ability to shed off and chase down a play. And that is interesting because I look at some guys and it's like, Okay, the pass rush, that's kind of what we care about all the time, especially at the top end, or it seems like that's what we care about all the time. But this dude, this dude can stop the run like he can go. He's not just going to be well, you're just a pass rush specialist. Some of these guys on the list may be that when they first come out, but it looks like he can be
an every down player. To me, he looks like an absolute monster in the run game.
No, I think that's exactly right. And he and he, they him and him in scord and they kind of move all around the front three technique five, technique four I defensive end, stand up rusher like they do it all so but again, like he just is physically what you want at the position. He plays it with the right mentality. Like you know, we talked about Femi all the day Joe from UCLA. Like, imagine Femi old day Joe if he was two inches taller, thirty pounds heavier,
and just like that's how he plays. And I love it. And to me, he's one of my favorite players, if not my favorite player in the draft. And again, the lack of production is a little bit alarming, but I'm hoping that you get him with the right coach and you get him in the right situation and he figures it out.
Logan, it's time for the number one. I think this is relatively consensus at this point amongst most people that cover the draft, and I want you to compliment Sandwich. You're number one. Tell me why he's great. Why is the consensus? Why everyone's seen the same thing? Tell me, like he is he like an absolute sure thing because you could go number two overall, there's some k mocks that have on that is going an absolute share thing.
And then if he's not, why and then end it with but man, the team that gets him and maybe it's the Commanders. You never know. I can dream being a Penn State guy, like why we would love him when a team like this? So go go.
Ahead, Yeah, so I think you're looking. And we just talked about all these different guys and the past rush ability and the size and the strength and how they play and all those different things. Abdu Carter has the best get off I have ever seen drafting, like watching defensive ends. His twitch, his burst, is explosiveness is absolutely game changing from a past rush standpoint, like, he's not not even that refined as a pass rusher, it doesn't matter.
His ability to anticipate and explode out of his stance puts the tackle under pressure. Every single play he literally end up in a pass rushing situation. Not being a good pass rusher affects passes every He watched the Notre Dame game the first ten dropbacks, he's getting pressures like I would classify them as a pressure on the quarterback.
He's injured in that game too, he's playing hurt.
His shoulders jacked up right, Yeah, and then his ability to drop into space, cover grass, open his hips like he is incredibly unique as an athlete, like he can again, not a huge library of pass rush moves, but it doesn't even matter, Like you are, he is physically better than everybody else in this draft class from a get off speed standpoint, Like it's not even close, Like not even close. And I don't know what it is. If it's how he anticipates the snap clown or if it's
just like he's physically wired to do that. He is a special, special spell show football player. The negative thing about him, I think his frame is a little bit slight. He does not have a full myriad of pass rush moves. He's only he's new to the position, so he's a little bit raw, a little bit reckless at times with his shoulders, specifically in terms of how he takes on blocks and moves around. So I think that's that's the
negative element to him. But dude, if by some like crazy circumstance, he ended up a Washington commander and he was I don't know, like you traded up for him or something like that. Like he is incredibly unique. He wears number eleven. He reminds me of Michael Parsons, that same type of burst. He doesn't have that same strength necessarily, but his burst is incredible, Like it's incredible. So that's why he's number one.
I just why why isn't he perfect? Is he perfect?
No? I just said he's a little undersized, a little undersized little bit with his body, doesn't have a doesn't have a full you know, a library of pass rush moves because he relies so much on his get off of his explosiveness. But man like he is like he was.
But you're saying things that feel like other than size. You're saying these are things that it's like, oh, well, he's it doesn't have all these things yet, but it seems like those are things he could learn and grow into and he's just kind of scratched a surface. Are you saying that that's what makes him so special and unique?
Is that even these negatives that you're seeing or not negatives, but like, eh, like that that kind of thing that you've seen of them are like, oh, but that it's just that could go away.
It's just when you see a guy who can do what he does from a get off movement standpoint, like he's just he's he's starting a race five yards ahead of everybody else, and it doesn't matter how efficient you are, necessarily right, Like, there's a couple of times where you know he's playing this tackle from college, the tackle gets a good position, but he's able to kind of just pull himself around run the edge, like just straight run
around it, get a sack. So to me, the developmental element of his game is almost a positive because he's going to learn more, he's going to get better. But the frame is a little concerning because again he's got the shoulder injury. But again I think that shows competitive toughness. He plays through that injury. The whole game affects the game. So you said number two, I think he's a number I think he's the first pick in the draft. He's the best player on my board right now.
So like even with Travis Hunter out there.
Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely interesting. Yeah, his ability to affect the game every single play is right at the forefront. And you look at what an elite pass rusher can do for a defense. Go no further than Michael Parsons or Miles Garrett. And that's kind of the same sphere we're talking about with this player. I don't know why, how if you're Tennessee unless you're going quarterback, how you don't take Abdull Carter at number one?
Yeah, you know, I love hearing this Being a Penn State fan. I'm going to try and remove my confirmation bias as a Penn Safe fan watching him, wanting to think he's the greatest pass rusher I've ever seen in my life. The things that I could see if they were negative, if I could find him, and I was thinking back to like just what I noticed when watching as a fan, Like I'd be like, ah, he doesn't always see what the blocking scheme is that's in front
of him. He's a tiny bit slow sometimes in dissecting what the play is that's happening in front of him, and bull rushes are hid and mess for him, and if he doesn't win them immediately, he'll slow down and go, Okay, I'll just wait for something to develop in front of me and then attack that. Now, that attack that is this is the best athlete that Penn State has seen in a long time, right, Like, I love watching him play.
I just love it. And I think he is going to be a I think immediately, he is going to be an impact player for a team immediately. And it's one of those things where like his frame that you're talking about, like and we talked about it with and Green, right, Like, there are guys that when you have this sort of
upper echelon athleticism, it doesn't always matter. And I want to think of like Will Anderson, right, smaller frame guy but just didn't matter, doesn't matter, And like some guys are just that elite with their athleticism and their twitchiness and what they can do physically, and then when they start polishing up the techniques, it's just devastating.
No, absolutely, And so yeah, he's a number one player on my board as of right now, and I'm going to watch more Travis Hunter, but right now, like he's the guy, and there's a reason because he's crazy explosive, he's crazy twitchy, he's crazy competitive, and I think the sky's a little bit for him from an athletic standpoint. Now, interview's got to go well, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, he's a special football player.
All right, here we go for the nerds. It's that time again. We're going to do this every time we do top tens or top whatever at every position. I want you to give me two words describe players. We're going to talk about some extras, some pass rushers that you watched, and it's like, just keep an eye on them. They're going to be later round guys. They're maybe not eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen to fifteen on your list, or just guys that kind of stood out. Maybe they're third round guys, fourth
round guys, fifth round guys. Maybe they're even seventh or undrafted free agents at some point. But it's like, man, this guy, there's just something about them. I saw a trait, two traits that raise an eyebrow for me. And I'm going to start. You have on your list here Jared Ivy from Old Miss.
Yeah, that Ole Miss defensive line was pretty incredible with prince Ly o'maniela right, also from Old Miss. He's the opposite.
He's six six, he's two eighty five, he's got thirty three and a quarter in charms, Like big dude, kind of again great in the run game, great instincts, a little bit sluggish, but has like this nice basketball kind of lazy guy, old man fluidity where he's able to get by pass rushers yet or pass protector of the eight sacks last year inside outside really impressed them at the senior bawl like this college tape. A lot worry about the work ethic and the drive, but man, is
he physically Is he impressive? And I think he could be a really positive impact inside or outside for a bunch of different teams.
Hey a guy that has a variety of pass rush moves and is twitched up at least I thought, is Donovan as Araku from moist in College? Tell me about him?
To Donovan as Araku, I really wanted badly to get him in this list. But again, great length, thirty four inch arms, he's sixty two, a little undersize, but great bend, great physicality. There are times where I think he gets eaten up by larger pass rush, by larger pass protectors, and I worry about him in the run game, But dude, he's got the juice man, and I think you'll see him in a lot of people's top one hundred, Top
probably seventy five type player in my opinion. So for me, he would be the eleventh guy, tenth or eleventh guy on my list. Like, I really went back and forth a lot. Love his ability to play like that spinner kind of like rushing over the nose, rushing over a guard. Got a great feel for a pass rush. Worry a little bit. But the reason he didn't make my list
about his top end closing speed. I think he can win as a rusher, but I'm not sure if he can close to a more athletic quarterback, but great football player. Size concerns, closing speed concerns, But as a rusher man, it doesn't get much better than him.
Hey, logan from Ohio State is Jack Sawyer, And to me, he's a what you see is what you get kind of a guy, very savvy. Tell me what you saw from him?
Yeah, Jack Sawyer. I've seen a lot of people have him as the top forty player and I just didn't get it. So, Like, he plays really hard, he's physical, he's instinctive, all those different things, but it looks like he's got short arms and it looks like like he lacks top flight athleticism. So for me, I was like, I don't under I don't really understand like where the value is. Again, he plays hard, but I think there's
guys that we've talked about who play harder. Like he's got good instincts, but I think there's guys that are more instinctive, and sometimes I think guys get caught up in drafting the helmet a little bit. And you see the big play that he had the National Championship with the interception, and he's a guy to me that I think will go very high because the consensus seems to be very high in him. But maybe I got to watch more film. So if you're a Jack Sawyer fan,
leave a comment, tell me why I'm wrong. But he's a guy that I'm a little on the fence about and I don't understand why he's getting all this like top forty five buzz and.
We're going to talk about this every time. You mentioned it in the podcast at some point, but you mentioned like, because you can't change it, right, you either got long arms or you got short arms. And you're saying, like, he looks like he's got some short arms. Why does that matter?
It matters because it like these past protectors are huge man. They've you know, the minimum threshold's like thirty three and a half inch arms, and so these big dudes, these heavy guys, especially in the NFL, who are good athletes, better athletes, and you can reach out and touch you before you can touch them, like they're going to eat
you up. They'll mess around, man. So I just don't know if I saw like enough elevation, like like we talked about, you know, James Pearce Junior, Michael Williams, you know Landon Jackson, any of these guys Ola deejo Oli, like there was a they're at a level now, but they have the physical traits to keep developing. And I just worry that Jack Sawyer is kind of maxed out, you know, because he doesn't look like his longest arms.
Not the greatest athlete in the world, and most people who talk to will acknowledge that they're banking on the foot ball like you to get them. To me, that's a big lift to him for him to take that next step at the NFL level.
All Right, we only have a couple more next up. As Jordan Birch from Oregon.
This was the most frustrating watch for me of anybody in this group. He is maybe the most physically gifted guy on this list. He's listed at six ' six two hundred and eighty five two hundred ninety five pounds. Depending on where you watch him, there are times where you see him play with elite power, like knocking people on their asses, like totally smoking offensive lineman, compressing the pocket, taking on blockers and pullers, and see him dropping into
space like a dB. However, the effort is not consistent. Like I called someone at Oregon and it was like, what's the deal with him? It's like when he wants to be he is any in any situation. He's the most athletic, best football player on the field, five star recruit, and it looks to me like every he has just been the best player his entire life. He hasn't really cultivated a myriad of pass rush moves like he plays inside outside. He's a bigger body guy obviously, but for me,
like the athleticism, the physicality, it's there. It's just the consistency and the passion and the want to so like I just saw a list today where he's a he's a top fifty player, and I get why, but I'm also like he seems like a guy that could get you fired, right because he is so talented, but he's not going to give it everything he's got all the time.
And so I just feel like I had to bring him up because again, the measurables, the athleticism, the movement skills are all there, but just a frustrating because you don't see it all the time, and you're just like, why can't you do this you're physically capable of doing all the time. Why don't we see it more?
Yeah, So here's just what I saw. He looks like a souped up F one fifty, right, He's just he's explosive, but every now and then, like it seems like his gas is on empty, Like that's what it looks like to me. Like it's just here's this big soup up F one fifty that rolls up and it's like got a four cylinder engine in it when you pop the hood. And I don't know why that is. I'm not going to say it's effort or not. I don't know. But there are times where like he he gets tossed around.
You see it. Why you're huge, right, he doesn't play the run game. Well, why you're explosive, Like I there's something off. I don't I'm not gonna say it's effort because I don't know, but I will say that there is something there that I think that interviews and the combine is going to be absolutely critical for him.
Yes, I totally agree. I think that. I think the f one fifty example is crazy. It's all there, it looks great, but it's like, bro, why not all the time? Like I was watching the Him versus Ohio State and it's like he's blowing people up, and you're like, he has a sequence where he's a sequence where he's atographer loss a sack and pressure and basically forces a punt and then doesn't do anything for the rest of the half, and you're kind of like why why not? Like why
are we not doing that? More so, it's He's an interesting watch, but physically a freak from Morgan.
The next one is from Texas, Baron Sorel. I think I'm seeing that right b A R R Y N Baron bar Run. Maybe the Baron Sorrel from Texas.
Yeah, so a guy that is not exceptional in any kind of physical measurement. He's six four, he's two fifty five, kind of right down the middle. But a guy that is just a good football player. Man. I think he really stood out to the Senior Bowl, went and watched his tape. Has kind of a bunch of different ways to beat you understands pass, rushing out a high level, plays hard, good physicality. Again, he's not a name that's
gonna like, you know, he's not Jordan Birch. Where he comes off the bus, You're like, oh my god, look at this guy. He's just a solid, good football player. And there are there are his tremendous value to those guys, especially you know, third fourth round range for the commanders, like I'd be stoked if he was a Washington commander.
And speaking of stoked, if guys could be a Washington commander. The last one is Savion Jones from LSU Logan. I'm going to say this. I enjoyed watching him because he's big, and he loves violent contact and even he wants it right, he invites it. That's why I love it. So tell me a little bit about Savion Jones.
I think we see it exactly the same way. Man. He's a big, violent human. He runs and finishes to the football and the floor to that player is tremendously high. Right he just you can tell he likes football, he likes contact. He's violent, he's relatively intuitive. He's stiff. He's a stiff human being. Like he's big. He's kind of got like this, you know, like lurch type of running style, but likes he gets to where he's got to go. Like he watched a Senior Bowl game, he's running running
backs down from behind. He gets a sack and a half because he's just finishing to the football like the Florida. A player like that is big. He could probably play inside, play outside. But I really liked him at the Senior Bowl. I liked his tape because it's exactly the same player
that you saw at the Senior Bowl. And so again, high floor, high effort player that again may never be your top flight pass rusher the way that some of these guys are, but there's no question that he'll be a first and second down rotational piece minimum In the end.
Logan, we did it. We talked about a ton of edge rushers. This is a great class. I love the depth of it. Like I said, there's Abdul Carter and there's a couple guys at the top. That's Abdul Carter is a blue tripper. There's a couple guys at the
top that are going to be very good pros. I'm just I'm super excited about the edge rushers, watching them at the combine and moving through this process, and I have a sneaking suspicion that at somewhere in the draft, this is going to be a position that the Commanders are targeting. So I think one of the guys we talked about or that we were going to be watching in the next couple of months is going to be a commander. And I can't wait, because this is a good class. This is a good class.
Yeah, it's great class. Maybe the peak, you know, outside the two guys you know, should we Stuart and Abdell Carter. But I think there's a lot of good football players and a lot of people are going to impact your team right now. And yeah, so I definitely think this is somewhere where the Washington Commanders could get a lot of really good value.
Hey fans, we love your comments, we do, we really love them. Tell us who you want to us to evaluate next, what position? Tell us what you thought of our takes if you like them, if you don't like them, I'm just a guy. So if you say my takes are terrible, you're probably right. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just watching football. But if you want to get on Logan, I'm sure Logan would love to hear what your opinions are. Logan, you're excellent at this.
By the way. I love listening to you and doing these shows with you because I learn a lot. And one of the things that I said with my just a guy whateverisms is I said, there was a guy last week in O line who stares at his assignments, and we got a good comment about that and said, hey,
that may be an easy fix. So Garon missing Berg said, for a player that has a problem with staring at assignments, why couldn't you just throw a dark visor on and now you're not watching his eyes anymore, And that could be a solution to a problem. And I texted you about that and I was like, actually, that's a pretty creative solution. I'm not mad at it. So Logan, you played in the NFL for ten years. You were a tight end, so you had to get up there with
the big uglies and block some guys. Could you've just thrown on a dark visor and still stared down assignments? Would that have worked for you? And why not?
So a couple of things. One with a dark vice, you can't wear them anymore in the NFL unless you get a medical exemption. So people used to wear them all the time when I first got in, But because of the concussion risk, they need to be able to evaluate you through the helmet. They've basically made it impossible to get a dark visor now. So that's one thing for the NFL that would make that very challenging. However, in addition to the eye looking, most of the time
you're looking at stripes. So what I mean by that is like you get the stripe down the middle of the helmet, and that's a thing that's tipping you off. So sometimes like guys will lean a little bit and their head, their whole head will turn a little bit, and you'll kind of see the whole stripe kind of
go in the direction. So I think this is this sounds to me like more of a coaching thing, like just like hey man, you know, like keep your stripe facing forward and then you can use your eyes and your periphera to track the pieces that you need to track in terms of blocking assignment. And again, there are some really good defensive players that like as you're walking to the line of scrimmage, they're looking at your eyes because you tend to kind of pre evaluate where the
defense is and they get really good at that. That's a whole different battle of wax. We can talk about it another time, but I think right now, to me, it's just keeping your head nice and neutral up the field and making sure that we emphasize that from a coaching standpoint, because the dark visor, while a great idea, does not handle the stripe and is now illegal. So can't do that, kids.
He can't do it. But I loved that comment because it made me time go man, that's out of the bucks thinking and I love it. So thanks Logan. I appreciate you breaking that down for me and for our guy Gary. All Right, fans, thanks so much for listening Logan. Why don't you sign us off. We'll be back with another one next week. And also, if audio was a little off today, guys, bear with us. We had the
snow when we were recording this. We were not in our normal podcast studio to record, so I tried to set this up remotely for Logan, and I so appreciate if the audio quality is not as great as it normally as I appreciate guys just bearing with us. We'll be back in studio soon, I promise, So, Logan, why don't you sign us off?
Yeah, thanks so much for listening. Please make sure you like to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We enjoy the comments, please keep leaving those, and yeah, if you have questions about specific prospects, please make sure you leave those in there as well. Thanks so much for joining in and tuning in with us and being with us on this pre combined post combine draft journey. But that's going to do it for today's show.