On today's episode of Ticket of the Draft podcast, we talked top fives plus one. We talk about guys that can bend, that can goes, guys that tackle on I think we come to conclusion we just like football players, Jason, Guys that are tough, nitty gritty, and it all starts right now. Welcome to the Ticket of the Draft Podcast. I'm Logan Paulson with just the Guy Jason. It just reminder you were brought to you by Sea Geek, the
official primary ticketing partner of the Washington Commanders. And on today's show, we are talking top five plus one at every defensive position, and make sure you guys stay tuned for next week. Also because we have Connor Rodgers from PFF NFL Stock Exchange, right.
Yeah, he's onn that with Trevor Sigma. He's also for NBC Sports.
Right, and so he does that, and obviously that's Jason. Just to guy, Jason, here's me, and we are going to give you our ultimate Defensive Draft Guide basically today with the top five at every position.
Yeah, this is basically part two. We did offense last week, we're doing it this week for all defensive positions. So yeah, top five plus one plus one being that person that you're inviting to the wedding. They're not they don't know the brider groom. They're just like somebody that you want to hang out with and you're there. So like this plus one is maybe not is not number six in our top ranking, may not even be in the top
ten or the top twenty. It's just a guy we want to talk about because maybe they're gonna be invited to the party here in Washington.
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's that's a that's a great description. So do what do you want to start? You want to start with interior defensive lineman.
Yeah, let's start with interior defensive line before we start with what they want to ask you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is how hard is it for you to watch defensive football players online? Insanely It's insanely hard.
So, well, two things, all right, So you're gonna have a different experience with this than me because I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just a guy. So like offense, I feel like I have a better grip one when I watch it.
There's also more stuff, there's more well.
There's more data points, right, But also like when you're a fan of football, like, that's.
What that's what you watch.
That's what you're watching.
Right.
So if I'm sitting there and I'm watching the Manders on Sunday and I'm watching it in real time, I'm watching what the offense is doing, even when we're on defense.
Yeah right, yeah, you're not watching what the defense is doing. I mean, that's why I have to go back to see that. That's how I watch film usually too. I watch offensive football, like I'm an offensive player. I do watch some defensive stuff, but even just the way they shoot the games on the on the TV, they kind of cut the back end of the defense off there, which is the one of the more important parts of
the defense to see. And so for this evaluation, for some of the defensive linemen, it's easy because they're always in the shot on the TV copy. But for some of these corners, some of these linebackers, some of these safeties, it was it is slim pickens. You're watching every scrap of information you can find on the internet for like maybe ten plays total. So it's gonna be tough.
Yeah, And I think the thing, especially with d lineman or linebackers, especially as you never hear their name get called unless they either screw up or do a good play, and that's that's very rare in the game as far as data points, like if you're a wide receiver on a on a good team, like if you're draftable wide receiver, you're getting ten targets, eight catches somewhere in there. So there's like a lot of data points that's going on
in the game. You could be an outstanding interior defensive interior. You don't get a sack that game, and you get maybe two tackles for a loss, so that you're only getting your name called twice. But when you go back and watch them, like like what you're saying, you watch every snap, every play, this guy affected the game in a great way and you do a good job. Actually, on our command center shows when we break down film, when it's like all right, break down Deron pain for
this game. He needn't get a sack, But look at how this guy's affecting this game. Right, You're not going to hear his name called on this play, but he's causing this bad throw. He's causing the quarterback or the running back to bounce out where Jamon is standing to wrap him up, Like, and we just hear Jamon get called in the game. Because it's happening so fast, you don't expect the color commentators to pick up on that stuff.
But when you logan go back and rewatch that film, you're like, yeah, Jamen made a great play here, not taking anything away. This is a dron pain though, right, and like, uh, you do a great job of that on Command Center all our fancial checkout Command Center, especially in season when you do your film breakdowns.
Thanks. Man, that's very nice to you.
Yeah, but it's hard.
Yeah, it's hard.
Defense is really hard.
It's really hard. It's uh, it's yeah, it's it's tough. But we're gonna give you our best guests here, best estimations because we like I said, I've watched a ton of film on a lot of these guys. Now, the juice isn't always worth the squeeze, you know, for some of these corners. Like I said, I've watched four or five games like whatever, I can find a couple of highlights and it's the same four or five plays. Right,
There's just not a lot to go off of. So we're kind of going off of Combine Senior Bowl all the stuff we've been to, but we're gonna give you our best take care.
Yeah, so let's do five to one. Okay, we'll start with defensive interior and I'll go first, number five to and Andre Sweat.
That's my dude. That's your dude from Texas.
Number four, Rouke o'roo from Clemson. All right. Three Brandon Fisk from Florida State.
Two j J Jaz Right is it jus On? It's from Illinois.
And number one Byron Murphy the second from Texas.
Crushed it. So I'm pretty much the same as you. I've got Jandre Sweat from Texas. At five, I got Chris Jenkins. That's the only difference in our list. You have, Ruca Roro. I have Chris Jenkins from Michigan, Braden Fist from Florida State, Jason Newton from Illinois, and Byron Murphy from Texas.
Yeah, so let's talk about our differences. You want to kick it off with Chris Jenkins from Michigan.
Yeah. Chris Jenkins is a guy that I just when you watch him, I feel like he's got a lot of kind of NFL feel, if that makes sense. Like he uses his hands very well. He knows how to penetrate the gap. He's an excellent run defender. At the Combine, he tested better than I expect that and a lot of people were disappointed. But you know, he runs a four to nine. He's almost he think he's over three hundred pounds three zho five, so big athlete that I think has not quite tapped his potential as a pass
rusher yet. In that Michigan defense, they really don't allow those guys to rush. You know, they're kind of a blitz heavy scheme and those guys are stunting and looping. But when you watch him fight, like defend the run, he is an excellent run defender, which makes me think he's got a very low floor. And I think, you know, his dad, obviously, Jenkins played for the Panthers, played for the Jets way back in the day. He's got this NFL p pedigree, so he's been there, he's done that,
he's been around it. I just feel like he's a guy that's a very safe prospect with some high athletic upside compared to Rucro who again I like his film a lot. Again, a big, high ceiling type of guy, but I feel like there was a little bit of inconsistency in terms of kind of his consistent awareness. That again, I like him a lot. He's probably my sixth or seventh guy if there's on this list, so he's very close. But I just I just felt like Chris Jenkins was
such a get on base type of pick. And it's it makes it easier because I think he's I think he's got a high, high ceiling as well.
So yeah, I like Chris Jenkins too. It's not like I don't and he goes right there. Yeah, No, I understand. He's very good against double teams. I'm gonna tell you what I wrote down. Good against double teams. He's pretty quick with his first step to get across the face, right, So not necessarily exactly, that's a great way. Yes, that's where they use it. And he might be the strongest dude.
He's very powerful.
He shoves people around no problem, makes him look like rag dolls. But I did have that his pass rush, that first step explosive. It's up there a little lacking I think in this class. And it's almost like he his arm or hand placement sometimes gets a little off. I don't know if it's because he has shorter arms or it's not a right technique. It looks like you just he can get out leveraged with his pads sometimes. That's what it looks like to me.
No, I think as a pass rusher doesn't. He doesn't have that feel yet. But I think when you see the athletic traits for the position, that's what I'm banking on, right, And I think it's you know, what you describe there is kind of the opposite like Ruca Roro. I don't think it's a great run defender necessarily, Yeah, but he does flash pretty consistently as a pass rusher because he's six ' five, he's three oh five. He runs well, he bends well. He's kind of got that feel, that
length in that feel. But again, like I think both these guys are gonna get on the field early in their careers as kind of early down run players. And I think Chris Jenkins the path is just like he's pro ready in that area. Yeah, and I think he'll grow more quickly because he's gonna get more opportunities than Rook Roro early.
I hear you, And speaking of Ruke who was my guy at number four, I agree with you on everything you said I have here that like he looks in pass rush like maybe a one trick pony. He does his speed handswipe thing. I don't know what it's technically called, but he does it almost he does it all the time where he like jumps real quick and then one.
Of these like it's like a quick swim, yeah, tight.
Swim and if he if that doesn't work, it doesn't look like he has much else. He doesn't have a counter, he doesn't have much else.
He's a little bit of like like well I use this term to describe like raw athletes. He's like a wild horse, like he's a big great point. He's out there just kind of run around and plays hard. I mean like, I mean, I like the player. It's just he's got a lot of potential. I think. Again, it's it's apples to apples here really because they both have their issues. But the consistency that Chris Jenkins plays with, if there's a professionalism there that I'm going to bet
on just a little bit. And again it's it's again it's six and one a half dozen in the other kind of thing. But that's kind of how I feel.
Well, the reason I like ruke is because he has low center of gravity, doesn't look like he ever loses balance even when he is getting pushed around, like what I was talking about, Like great going in there. Yeah, excellent athlete. He has great pursuit and doesn't give up, like he'll keep going even if it looks like he's out of the play. You'll come out of nowhere on the back end, he just keeps ustling. Yeah, and he does have a good first step with like he's a good tach.
Yah, he's in the rookie.
He's a good player.
He's a good player, and the athleticism there is exciting. So when you put him at four, not mad at, I just think there's the consistency, is what I'm betting on. With Chris Akins. I wanted to ask you about Gisean Newton just because he's a guy that I'm having a hard time categorizing. And I put him ahead of Braid and Fist because I think he's got better measurables, like
more NFL ready measurables. But everyone talks about him as being this explosive, disruptive football player, and I'm not sure that I always see that.
Well. Interesting, and here's what I got for him. I have that he has a nice burse off the line, which makes him pretty darn good in the run game. I think he has good feet that doesn't stop turning. His feet never go flat. He's constantly moving those feet and churning a good hand movement. Looks like he has good placement here, but he will get caught up and
shoved around every now and then. I don't know if so he's listed as six to two two ninety five, maybe he's getting shoved around again because I'm not sure if like he's got I don't dense right. I don't know if he's dense right. Maybe he doesn't anchor down enough when he needs to, so I'm not sure what that is. And I think that's the thing about him.
I think the thing with Yeah, I like that. I like that description. And then he's not like a top shelf athlete. I don't think like when you watch him, it's interesting watching him because he's a little stiff, doesn't bend super well. He is disruptive, but he's not, you know, overly powerful. He's not overly quick. He does flash, so I don't like it when you watch his highlight only flash time he does flash, but there's like this kind of those those moments of inconsistency, which I find really
hard to categorize. But I do think he is more disruptive than a guy like Braden Fisk, who again is one of my favorite players in the entire draft. And then obviously Byron Murphy is a guy that I just cannot I just think he's going to be an excellent pro. I just think the way he bends, the way he moves, his strength, he's got good hand usage. I think he's disruptive. He's got a good motor, and that's to me why he might be. I think there's a world where he's
the first defensive players like that. I don't think that's very likely, but I think there's an opportunity for that to happen.
Yeah, I agree with you, complete with him. The only the only question I have about him is he's he seems small. He looks small.
I mean he's not tall, right, he's like six foot or six. What is it? What is his list at six one?
He's listed at six to one. He's three oh eight, so there's weight there. But the six to one on his arm length I think is fine. But uh, it looks like to me, right, he's not great with range and speed side to side, looks like he runs out of gas a little bit and he fell down a lot.
He does fall down a lot. Yeah, he's super athletic, but falls down. And I don't love that. I don't love when I see that.
But these are nipigy things because he's my number one guy, right, I agree with you completely. When I watch him, it's like, this dude can be dominant.
I forget what cut up I watch, but just his ability to get hands on guys, get to a low, like one knee position, almost like shock and shed, while also having some pass rush ability. He feels very raw to me. But I do think he's a guy that athletically like. I was just so impressed with though how he moved at the combine. I was impressed with his film.
He just I think he To me, it's it's you're betting on traits and you're hoping that he gets coached up and detailed up, because I think he's a pretty good football player already. But I think there's more to tap into there for sure.
Yeah, absolutely, all right. The last guy I definitely want to talk about in this is cave Andre Sweat because I can't talk about he's one of my guys there. If you listen to this podcast regularly, A thank you, b you know, I have my guys. Like I said, guy, I can't.
I was just looking at you guys are there.
I can't. I can't quit it. And it's at some point I'm just going with my gut and I'm gonna bet on these guys and if they turn out, then I'm gonna hang my hat on it. If they don't, I'm gonna be like, oh, it was my first time, so I'm not so, you know, don't put too much weight on it. But I love Devondre Sweat. He's huge. He he runs out of gas right, He's perpetually one e with the blinking light. But that first burst for someone his size, reading at three sixty two is incredible.
He clogs up the middle. He's not gonna play every play, but he is going to be an excellent run stopper for you and goal line sets. Good luck trying to go up the middle with him. One of the things I wanted to say about him is Danny Kelly at the Ringer does a great job with comps I think I showed this to you, and his comp was the ever given And if you don't know what the ever given is, that is the crater ship, the that got stuck in the right. That's what he is.
He's huge.
He doesn't move fast, but he is going to clog everything up. Good luck getting through.
Yeah, And the thing that impressed me is he's not just a big guy. He's got pretty good hand usage too. Like his ability to kind of like attack the playside pad of the guard and get a push pull and grab cloth and kind of get skinny, relatively skinny through there and push gets some pushback was pretty impressive. So I do think if he could lose fifteen pounds, I'd be much higher on him. But again, I think the weight issue is he going to play every play like. It makes me a little bit concerned.
Obviously, it's amazing we're saying that a three hundred and sixty two guy can get skinny.
Yeah, I mean that speaks to what he brings, and he does. He does burn out, does gas out. But I do think but there's something there to him. And I think let's talk about our plus one's real quad.
Let's do it.
So you got a guy that I haven't watched yet, Jordan Jefferson from LSU. Yeah, and talk about him real quick.
All right, so I think this guy is going to go definitely in the later rounds. Okay, Like I wouldn't even put him in my top ten, but I could see this as like a let's let's take a fire on this guy because he has this trait. He is a dog. He is super strong, and he's not the fastest, doesn't as the best first step, but this dude has a nice swim move and liked Tovandre. He is going to clog up that middle on run games and he is relentless. He doesn't give an f and that's so he's lacks in other areas.
Right.
He can completely disappear. He can completely get taken out of a play in the sense of like, oh, we know this is happening, here's a screen pass. He's completely fooled, like there's no he runs out of gas kids, She's like, there are things there. But he is an animal. So I like that mentality that he brings. And there are moments, especially when LSU was playing sort of a little bit of weaker competition, he's just tossing guys around.
You can tell he's one of the stronger guys on the fields.
Yeah, so I think that those things are going to translate nicely for a team in the later rounds, right, Yeah, that mentality strength.
You're looking for qualities too. I think that's the thing. Is, like we'll talk about this, maybe maybe we have time for another show like this at some point, just like what you look for in a later round prospect. And because like you know, we've talked about this metric before on our show. It's just like you know, there's this binary yes or no, and as you move down the list, there's a lot more nos, right knows or maybe's or whatever there is, right whatever color we're using to kind
of denote the gray area there. And when you can find a guy that has a trait the strength, the speed, the size, whatever it is, Like you know, I sent you a video this weekend of the guy from the Canadian Football League, the oppensive tackle. Right, he's six seven, he's three point fifty three. Like that guy is not going to be a first round pick. He's probably not going to be he's probably not going to be a fourth round pick. He's going to be a fifth six
to seventh round pick, but he's got traits. So if I'm kind of mortgaging my future on a guy, I want a guy that could eventually, at some point figure it out and get it done. So I also have a guy from LSU, and I think it's really interesting that there's so many guys on this list from LSU because the other guy I almost went with his Makai Wingo from LSU. He's small, undersize, six foot like two and eighty pounds, but got he like at the best testing day at the Combine, in my opinion, like just
shoot out when we were there, moved super well. I think there's an inconsistency to his size. But my guy is Mason Smith, and he's pretty high on a lot of people's boards. He's a top hundred player for a lot of people. He's the top seventy player for even more people, which is surprising to me because when I first watched him, I didn't get it, and then I had a conversation with a scout and he was like, hey, man,
check out the later half of this year. I try to find games from the second half of the year, so I remember I watched him against Florida and I and immediately understood what was happening. He's six six, he's three fifteen, three twenty, he's like built in a lab. He's this big old hoss, but he's not a fat guy. He's kind of a bodybuilder type build. And early in the season he just looked his awareness was bad, his positioning was bad. He's kind of getting pushed off the ball.
And then all of a sudden, like the light turns on. And for some of that same stuff we talked about, like being able to kind of manipulate pads, get to a long arm, grab cloth, push, pull, disrupt offensive tackles, push the pocket. It's all there. And then I saw a guy in the run game who started to figure it out right, getting extension using those long thirty five and a half inch arms, throwing guys to the ground, getting in on tackles. That motor was coming along, the
condition was coming along. And the reason that he kind of had this maturation, kind of like a butterfly, is he was injured last year and so this is his first time playing in a couple of years, and he started to kind of finally look the part the second half of the year. So I think people are going to look at the second half of that year and be like, this guy could be We talked about traits, has the traits to be an impact player, be a much better pro than he ever was a college player.
So I thought it would just again, he's high on a lot of people's list. We kind of went different ways here, but a guy that I think, don't be surprised if you hear him in the second round and a guy that makes waves for whatever teams that teams up looked him.
He's I watched all the LSU guys. He's really physically gifted. Right, it looks like there needs to be development. Like you said, I watched some of those earlier games and this wasn't quite there. But yeah, you get a guy with those trades in yeah, and he can learn. You got something good there. Maybe uh, maybe a rotational player out of the out of the gate that has pretty darn good.
Upside for you. Yeah, I agree.
All right, let's move the linebackers. I want to skip edges just because I want our fans to hang one because it's one of the premier positions. So let's skip them real quick and go right. The linebackers A big need for Washington here.
Yeah, so you want to go first, No, you go first, all right? So five to one Jeremiah Trotter Junior from Clemson, Maurice Lufau, I'm gonna say Lufou from Notre Dame, Cedric Gray from UNC, Edgrian Cooper from Texas A and M and Peyton Wilson from NC State.
Okay, I have time, Tommy Etchemberg Ikenberg. The reason I say Etchemberg is because I had an old boss at a previous job spelled like that, and you went by anyway, maris, what did you go with?
Uh, I'll go with you with that.
Jeremiah Trotter Junior from Clemson is three, Peyton Wilson is two, and then Edrin Cooper Texas AMM is one for me. So we flipped one end two.
It's close to me. They're like so on my big board, I think one was if I remember correctly, sixty four to one was sixty five. So they're like literally holding hands here. So yeah, good go on either way.
Well, you went ooh for Jeremiah Trotter, so let me start there.
Yeah, that's all right.
So the reason I have Trotter Junior there is he's not very big and he's not super fast.
Yeah.
Uh, he may have traveled with trouble wrapping up. I would think with technic because he has shorter arms measured short there. But from what I can tell watching films, this is the leader on that defense. He knows what's going on. He's quick to dissect plays, doesn't get fooled on play action often, very patient with that. But once he sees run and knows it's run, really attacks downhill and I just feel like the IQ is there with you.
Yeah.
So the physicals may not quite be there, but the IQ is and I would bet on that. As the third linebacker off the board, I'm betting on the IQ.
Yeah. And I think that's where I would differ with you, because I think I see the IQ there. I think he's a really good football player. He's got those kind of instincts. His dad played football, same thing, kind of thing we were talking about with Chris Shankins, right. Yeah. The problem for me is that I think the physical tools are a little bit in question. And that's not just him, that's you know. I really like Tommy Eikenberg too.
He's on your list, and I have a lot of questions about his ability to like physically do it at the next level. I think a lot of people forget how athletically gifted you have to be to play football in the NFL, specifically at linebacker, And so when I went through, I was literally like, physically do I think they can get it done? And that's why Jeremiah tried to juniors down the list. He's a little undersized, not the biggest guy in the world, not super long, not
super fast. Again, gets by on being on knowing it and that works really well up to a point. And I've played a lot of dudes in my career that know it really well, like Will Compton's a great example, you know, on bustling with the boys, like knew it really well never and he had some spits there, right,
But he had to get lucky. Guys had to get hurt, the opportunity had to come for him and so and he never really was able to hold onto that starting position because they're always looking to physically upgrade the position. So I think that's kind of what I look at with with Jeremiah Charter junior, and again, a guy that I like a lot. He's a good football player, just the physical ceiling is something that I really question with him.
So, uh, you want me to talk about Eichenberg real quick?
Yeah, talk about as you mentioned him, I meant.
And the traits you're talking about I have here. He doesn't look super fast. He like, if there's a bounce out or a stretch run to the perimeter, he's pretty slow to get over there. Not super fast there. But he's instinctive. He's great in the run game when he identifies it and he attacks downhill. I think he's just an all around solid player. Oh and he hits really.
Hard, which I also like that too.
So there's like, I get what you're saying. I guess because I didn't play football right like or at the level that you did. Rather and like I'm looking at this and also when you watch these plays, like I said, I don't know what I don't know, and it's really hard for me to tell. I don't know what the defense is called. When I'm watching these, I just I'm seeing it and I'm guessing. But it looks like he's always in the right spot. It looks like he's getting
other guys in the right spot. So that's the IQ that again I'm betting on and maybe these other guys that we're going to talk about that of the physical traits also of that IQ, and I'm just not seeing it. And because I'm seeing limitations in these guys, then the IQ sticks out like I'm not sure, but for me, that's why I'm rating these guys a little bit higher.
Yeah, And I think with Tommy Eickerberg, if you watch him versus Notre Dame last year in twenty twenty two, he looks like that dude. There's a lot of conversation at the start of last season about him being maybe the third the second linebacker taken right, People were very very high on him. But I do think there was a little bit of an aggression. And I don't know if that's defensive scheme, if there's an injury, what's going on. But I do get concerned when you see someone who's
kind of limited athletically, what are they seeling? Are they a second string linebacker for you for the course of their career? And again, there's value there that's a good football player, like Drod Mayo shows you exactly what that can be for you. Like special teams ace guy that comes in certain situations can get your bio when the starter's hurt for a little bit, But do you ever
want that guy to be your starting middle linebacker? And ultimately, like I kind of said, probably not, even though I like him a lot as a player, So I think for me, like that's why I went like Maurice Luaffu above those guys.
Dude, he's nasty.
He's nasty, he's physical, he's tough. I'd worry a little bit about his instincts, but there's no question for me, Like when I see him in space, like dropping in his own there's not a lot of stiffness. It's very natural when I see the guard pool. One of the things that I really try to evaluate with linebackers because with jam in college, you saw him kind of have a hard time getting extension on blocks and being really deliberate with his hands right, and that was something that
took a little bit of time for him to develop. Here, I think he's got it now. Like when you watch this stuff from last year, it looks like snappy and physical and decisive, and Luaifu has no issue with that. He's got long arms, he snaps carts back, he's a good blitzer, he's a good tackler. He's pretty instinctive to the ball. There's times where there's misdirection in the backfield You're like, he is not looking at the right thing
because he's running completely the wrong direction. But I think this kind of speaks to what I just was talking about. The athlete. Yeah, physicality, because what he's six three, he's two thirty five, Yeah, and he's got he's got thirty four inch long arms, like thirty three thirty four inch arms, and he plays that way, And I just think like that's something you want to like. That guy can project
to being a starting caliber player in the NFL. The arm length in the middle of the field, especially with all the play as and stuff behind him, He's gonna be able to tip balls and get stuff that a lot of guys that a lot of other guys can't. So that's why I kind of win that director.
We're on the same page there, I have. I said the same exact thing. He's a he bullies blockers in a run game, YEA, right, He's just he's nasty, aggressive, good power. All right. With Wilson and Cooper, let's not argue over their position on one and two, but let's just talk about these guys and we'll go in your order. I'll defer to you. So let's start with Edrin Cooper. You have him as your two.
Yeah, like a maniac and I love watching him play. He's got great arm length, kind of in the same way that Marie Luof who has long arms, Like you can see him get off blocks like people don't get in on his chest. He's a missile to the football, yes,
and he's downhill. I think the one thing I question is like, in that tex A and m offense, they blitz him a ton, So is he going to be more of Like I actually thought he'd be a really good fit here for Washington, And I think I still think that because he has this great pass rush upside inside he can play off the ball, But I think he kind of has more traits as a passersto. I think he had the fastest ten for any linebacker at the combine, so has some real get off juice in
space in coverage. They don't ask him to do a lot, so I'm always kind of like, what are you going to be because like as much as people want to ignore that, that is a huge element of the NFL game, Like Colston the guy from Michigan is a guy that I really like his film, but didn't cover a lot. Junior Colson didn't cover a lot, and so I had to put him down my board. Don't that's really why they're switch for me. It's just because I worry about
his ability to cover consistently. But dude can run, Dude can hit, dude can shake off blocks. He pursues to the football, Like there was a play I forget. I think they were playing in Alabama where someone got a reverse and was gone up the sideline and everybody's kind of trailing away from the play and he's running to the football and gets the runner. It's a touchdown, but like he was on the other side of the field
chase it the whole way down like a receiver. So I really like the prospect, really like the player.
Yeah, And speaking of chasing guys down, that's Peyton Wilson right speed speed speed speed speed. Yeah, that's what I got for him. Like he's got other stuff. I have nice coverage, got great pursuit sideline the sideline. He's a top tier athlete. He can chase down whide receivers, running backs. It doesn't matter. My only issue is shedding blocks.
Oh dude, you can get caught some times. And he's got really short, relatively short arms, and so that's I go back and forth on them all the time, Like it depends on what kind of scheme you're running. But if you can find a way to cover him up, I think you want the athletic upside and coverage and yeah, because I think that's that's a little bit better. But yeah, like it's the short arms. He doesn't have great block
destruction techniques. He's trying to jump around stuff. You see teams gash them all the time because he's jumping around stuff. And I just wanted to mention one thing real quick. A guy that a lot of people haven't talked about is Cedric Gray from UNC and he's a guy that really jumped out to me again because I think he's physical to the football, he's got great pursuit, but also he's good in coverage, and I think that's what separates like these top guys for me is I think they
have some coverage upside. Like again, Edrin Cooper's a little hit or miss, but he's just so good at everything else. Do you feel good about it? But Cedric gray bumps guys like Tommy Eikenberg Colson, Jeremiah Chrotter Junior because he seems to have more ball production and better natural feel for playing the football.
And my plus one was Jalen Ford from Texas. And again, this is a later round guy, right, He's going to go later round because he gets his eyes get caught in the backfield. He gets mixed up a lot. He doesn't have great pure speed. You can tell that he's just he's not an elite speedster. When it comes to that, he can he's slow. When I watch these other guys, he looks slower and his quickness change of direction is just not there. But for a late round pick downhill
run guy, that's what this is. This is a run stopping linebacker. He charges downhill. He doesn't care if there's a lineman in the way, if there's a pulling guard, he is going to do everything he can to use his body to just ram through it and be disruptive. And he has nice little burst in that tight area. So let's say there's a stretch play the outside and
he's working in. There's a little like when he goes to where that tackle was a little burst, right, there it's a nice solid, hard hit and for a later round, for a sixth round we're talking about here, Yeah, why not take a shot?
Yeah? And so for me, it's a jountry hunter from Georgia State, and he's a guy that, again you're looking for traits, right, Yeah, I think he runs well. I think he's got a pretty good feeling coverage. I love his instincts and I think I think when you look at his physical tools, I think he tested pretty well at the combine. Not the best, not the worst, kind of upper middle, but I like those traits in conjunction
with the instincts that I see on film. Right, He's and again I think a guy that could grow and develop. He might be a six or seventh round pick. But there was something about when you watch this film, just a smoothness, a consistency that I enjoyed watching and I think is transferable to the next level.
All right, let's jump to safety.
Safety guys. This was a nightmare. Yah. It was just tough. Man. It's just tough to evaluate him like it was.
This is really hard because they're off the screen. If you don't have an ALL twenty two, you don't see what.
They're doing, they're off the screen, and there's just not a lot of plays right, and like what they're asked to do is the way different than what they're going to be asked to do at the NFL level. So this was challenging for me, but I feel like I've got I believe in my top five. So why don't you go first?
All right? Tyreek Smith from Georgia is five.
Tikey yes, Tiky, sorry, all right, Cioni Vaki from Utah.
I can't quit them, Cameron Kitchens more Miami, Javon Bullard from Georgia, and Tyler Nuban from Minnesota.
Yeah. So I've got Cole Bishop from Utah as my fifth guy, Jaden Hicks from Washington State, Javon Bullard from Georgia, Tyler Nuban from Minnesota, excellent football player. My number one safety is Cooper Dejene from Iowa.
Interesting, let's hold on the Cooper JJ because he's going to pop up later. But where do you want to start here?
I guess for me, let's start with the Utah guys. And I think, so, why don't you start with Vake? Because when I see Vake, I see a guy who's got excellent short air quickness. He's pretty good in coverage. He's good near good and near and around the line of scrimmage. I didn't see a guy who was great tackling in the open field the way that I was hoping to see. I think the other stuff I really enjoyed. I think when he's in coverage he can match concepts
really well. But if you're going to be that kind of box safety, that big nickel, you gotta tackle in the run game really really well. And I just didn't didn't see that from him. The way.
He's athletic as hell. Yeah, and he's from what I can tell, he's pretty fast at dissecting what's happening.
Oh, he's got excellent let me just make that clear. I think he's got excellent instincts and vision. It's just about the execution sometimes when he gets there right.
It's the same thing I think that makes him a good running back. He's aggressive when he's even when he's running fast. He does kind of with one tackles, which I'm not super excited about you're just talking about. But I just I love the athlete. I love that he's again the IQ that's there and quite Honestly, the reason I'm putting them here is because he will be a
later guy, I think. And I'm taking the athlete here as a special teams guy, as a guy that has enough plays on defense that I think he could be. You made the accomp to Derek Force here, right in the sense of a guy that could be on special teams and when you need him to step in, he can step in and potentially be something there for you. I think he can do that. And then the dude can play running back. So like, I just think I think that like he offers a versatility and a high
football IQ. In that versatility, that's worth's taking a shot.
No, I agree. I agree, And just to me is like, where's the value there? And for me, it's that's probably a fifth, sixth round guy. But I do think all of the things I said about him, I enjoy. The tackling is a little bit of an issue for me. Just the general physicality sometimes is a little bit of an issue. That's why I think he's probably a better offensive player. Cole Bishop's my guy from you, He's my fifth guy. And I just could not shake Eric weddle vibes.
And I played against Eric Weddle in college, Like just the way his kind of He's a Swiss Army knife, right, he's playing linebacker, he's playing post safety, he's the box safety, he's the star. He's on the line of scrimmage blitzing, and he was He's very instinctive. He's a better athlete than people think. I worry a little bit about his arm length, especially guarding NFL tight ends. But I just saw a dude who was good at football, at instinctive,
good at blitzing. He's physical, he's got a great feel, and he ran a four to four at the combine. So I was any sixty three and he's two hundred and ten pounds. So I was like, you know, he's not that. He's not a murderous hitter, he's not a he's not like, you know, the best blitzer scene. But he's just good at every single thing. And and I I just I value that. I think that's an NFL starting player.
Let's talk about two guys that we both have high here. We'll do Javon Bullard from Georgia and then moved to Tyler Newman.
Yeah, Javon Bullard and Tyler Newman. They are very similar players. I think the thing about Tyler Newman is when you just watch his he's my number he's my number two guy, probably my number one true safety on most people's boards.
Yep.
But his ball production is absolutely insane. Like I saw one of the best cover two disguises of anybody in this class. So I forget who they were playing, but it's a three by one. He kind of rolls like rolls to the single receiver side because the middlefield's open. The quarterback looks right down the middle of the field, and I just and instead of like running like a backup bat of a hell to a spot, he just stops, watched the quarterback bates him in a f row and intercepts
the football. And that is advanced stuff. That's like big boy NFL stuff, top tier ball skill, top tier ball skills. I think he's a decent blitzer. I think he accelerates well to the football. Don't love his physicality on blocks and things like that. But again, he's a safety, so how much is he going to do that? I don't know. But again, the ball skills were insane. The closing speed of the football, even though he didn't run very well, he's got that kind of football speed where it's like
he sees the ball, he diagnoses it quickly. He's able to get there. But a little bit physicality concerns. But I think the other stuff's top shelf.
The quick backpedal, nice backpedal, and the flip of the hips to turn and run very very nice, very smooth, great first step, explosive explosiveness, and yeah, man, that's why I wrote top tier ball skills, which you want a little writer in the run defense. But when you're that good back there.
He's like a true like at least in what I watch, he's like a true cover two posts over three safety type. Guy. Didn't do a lot of box stuff, so that's not really why you're while you're picking him, but you know, safety's got to tackle, but still a good football player.
All right. So for Bullard from Georgia, I'm gonna say something, man, I hope Washington fans won't get mad at me for this. He looks like a fun size Sean.
Tailor, like smaller. He he's a slight build.
He's a slow much smaller than Sean Taylor. But oh my gosh, does he want to hit and hit hard? And he is aggressive.
Towards downhill, Oh my gosh. And he's got decent cover skills. He's got decent stage skills.
Tracks the ball very well, sudden the jump roots, the dude can chase down wide. Receiver's pretty fast.
Do you have uh, do you have his heide and weight on there? He looks small, I have.
He's five to ten.
Yeah, I looked a little undersized to me on.
Fun size man. Sean Taylor's Shawn Taylor's the king size.
This is fun sized, And so it's funny you say fun size Sean Taylor. Like when I was watching Jayden Hicks. Now it's not all the time. He's the safety from Rushington State, And I just had to bring this up real quick. When you watch him against you dub, he looks like the most devastating defensive player in the draft. Like he is. He's covering receivers, he's tackling running backs,
he's chinning guards like he's excellent. And then there's like you watch Arizona game, which the other game he's got online, and it's a little bit up and down. Yeah, but in that one game, I was like, I had these strongest Sean Taylor vibes I've ever seen ever watching a player. It's just about the consistency with him. More of a box guy. Yeah, but like that six three two twenty type build, that's just.
Like with that mentality.
Oh, that's just freaky and he needs to get with a good coach. But you know, I came out of this like not. I think there are some really quality guys at the top of this thing. And you got Cameron Kitchens from Miami.
Yeah, I do. Let me let me pull up my So.
Cameron Kitchens is interesting to me because I could not get a good feel for him. I was a little bit worried about his general athleticism when I watched him.
Yeah, so I have he is a solid all around athlete, a good eye for where quarterbacks are gonna go with the ball. Looks like he's he's quick to get over there. He he knows from what I can tell right and watching the film, he should be on one side of the field. But that ball's in here and he's already making a play on it. So something told him to break for that ball is what I'm seeing, right. I think he has really good ball skills at the catch point.
He's another ballhawk. I think he's a little lighter, smaller frame, right, and my fear with him is a little bit like a corner we're going to talk about Elier. It looks like he's not He'll get in there and tackle, but he's not running downhill. You can tell he's like, oh okay, I'll get in here now. Like he's not like the bullet we just talked about that Sean Taylor mentality, just a missile launch right into this line. I'm gonna blow it up. It doesn't have that, doesn't have that.
No, it's one hundred percent true. So I think that's it. And then I got my last guy is Cooper Degene.
Who will talk about in the second with the cornerbacks because I have him in there, so we'll talk about that. Then, yeah, who's your plus one safety?
So I had two guys one Klen Bullock, who I just I loved him as a mover on film. Not a physical dude at all, but in terms of ball skills, maybe the best ball skills in the whole draft class. Like he just the way he tracks the football, the way he can close ground. He is not he's he can hit you, but in run fits and stuff, dude, you can tell he's taking creative angles. He's totally disinterested.
That's why he's my plus one. But a guy that in this type of scheme, like given free reign, just to go make plays, get his hands on the football and make you wrong. And then Dominie Campton was another guy way down the list. I decided to bring him up. He's six ' four two point fifteen tested like an absolute mutant. He's got thirty three and a half in charms. Thirty three and three quarters in charms. That's an offensive lineman length there in terms of arms, so he looks
like a spider on film. He reminds me so much of kind of this this body type that Dan Quinn loves, which is like I can play linebacker, I can play safety, and I can run. And he's a guy because of that ability to run that could develop on teams for or two and then become like your Javon curse for Dallas. Right, this six four two ten to fifteen type guy that can match up with tight ends, play the post if you need to, but also knows how to fit the run.
And I just thought that guy will go higher than people think because of the athletic upside.
Maryland knows how to turn out some defensive backs player good with that, and I have a bo Brady, Sorry Brady.
Just I feel like, just like a solid set he is.
He's a solid player. Yeah, And for somebody looking for a Buffalo Nickel, I feel like that's where he's gonna fit. Because he's not the best in coverage. He can get lost, he can get turned around. I saw that in the Penn State game because I'm a Penn State fan and watching that like every now and then, it's like, bro, where are you going? But he is a willing tackler. He's got good size, six to one to two ten willly more than a willing tackler. He wants to mix
it up. He's not afraid of the bigger running backs. He will charge downhill and go after them. And he's confident. He's confident when he runs downhill. So it's a trait later in a round. Maryland knows how to turn these guys out that end up being good NFL players. Here, I take a chance on them, especially again when you're looking at traits and I'm starting to buy into when I'm making these evaluations to trade of does he want to play football and get nasty. Yeah, I like it
for sure. Why not? So when we're talking the Buffalo Nickel type of thing, this guy can do it for you.
Yeah. Absolutely, I like that pick a lot. I think he's very consistent football player, you know, if somewhat physically limited. But yeah, all.
Right, because you want to talk about Cooper de Jean, let's go to cornerbacks.
Quarterbacks.
You want to go first this time?
Yeah? I won first last time? Did I know You're right? Okay, let's go five TJ Tampa, Iowa State, four, kool Aid mckinnistry, Alabama. Three Tearrian Arnold Alabama, Nate Wiggins Clemson That hurt my heart a little bit. And then Quinon Mitchell Toledo.
Okay, I have at five Nate Wiggins from Clemson. Four we have the same one kool Aid three. This is where I put Cooper de Jean. Yeah, all right, two Quinon Mitchell from Toledo, and one Marian Arnold from Alabama. Now for me, before we get arguing with each other here, I think all of these guys are actually razor thin close, and I'm only switching them around based off of a trait that I Jag Jason personally like more dislike, but they're very, very close. I think this is a very
good cornerback class. So let's start with the guys from Alabama, right.
So kool aid. So I was watching in the LSU game and I just thought, here's a guy that plays with great technique, understands leverages, understands how to be competitive at the catch point, and that kind of sealed the deal from me. I wasn't going to put him in the top five, but then I watched that game and I was like, this dude deserves it. I think he's pretty physical. I think he's pretty instinctive, you know, not the greatest athlete of all time, but I think he
plays with tremendous technical prowess. You know, he's like his feet are in the right spot, his hips are in the right spot, his hand ushes is great. A lot of these guys are going to talk about are super handsy, like unnecessarily handsy, and it's gonna get them called in the NFL. I I feel like he's the most technically ready from an NFL standpoint.
I agree completely very solid technically. I called him a slightly taller Kendall Fuller just trust him right, and I think he's going to be a very good corner right away. The interesting thing about him and Terry and Arnold when I was looking at it, is that this year, this past season, less targets went kool Aid's way. More went Terry and Arnold's way. And I think a lot of that has to do because kool Aid had an incredible year two years ago at Alabama, and I think offenses
were like, we're not throwing that way this year. We're just not thrown that way. So he had less tape than Terry and Arnold did this year, And a part of me is like, is that speak to how good kool Aid is that there's not as much there and like there's a significantly more targets going to Terry and Arnold. Now I still have Terry Arnold is number one here in this class, but should I consider that kool Aid, who's on the same team with them. They're like, Nope,
we're not thrown that, We're thrown to this guy. You think he's the best corner on the field, but offenses didn't think that. They thought it was cool eight Yeah, do you think of that?
I mean, I think it brings me to Terry and Arnold, like I just put him ahead of kool aid because I think he's a little bit better, like with the clicking clothes, the short air of quickness, he's a little bit better at anticipating stuff, a little bit stronger, a little bit more aggressive to tackle. But in terms of coverage instincts, he makes me very nervous. And again, like he's a guy that I watch and I say to myself, like, like, there's this thing like where you watch a cut up right, Yeah,
and there's certain things I want to see. I want to see a guy in phase, you know he's breaking when the receiver's breaking. And there was a couple, not a lot, but enough for I was like I had to watch more where they're running like a box fade and he gets in trail, he doesn't get hands on, he misses with the hands, didn't have the recovery speed to get there, and the ball is overthrown and that's
a that's considered a pass defendant for him. So I think the thing that got me a little bit concerned was kind of the top end speed, the top shelf speed, and the elite coverage ability. I think when you look at like a football player, like he's your dude, man, he's like, you know, he's fitting runs, he's he's getting he's mixing up with receivers, he's anticipating screens. Like there's
a lot to like. I just the ceiling because, like kool Aid gets away with it because he's excellent from a coverage like, he's excellent from a technical standpoint, And Arnold has this superpower of being hyper quick in short area space. But when it's like long speed and where running running, I get a little bit concerned about that. Again, he's my third guy. I like him, but I have I had a hard time placing him.
So I'm gonna disagree just slightly.
Yeah, go for it, all right.
And the slight disagreement is is that I'm seeing that he's chasing in some instances. I don't know if it's his speed. It may just be because he's not super polished. It looks like and he gets turned around.
Which is not a great thing.
No it's not. But I see a recovery speed there. So the reason I have him at one is because he's an excellent athlete. He's got great size, and he does have that recovery speed. I do see it there. I think he needs to polish up, but when you do, you're going to have a better player than cool maybe, And that's why he's he's there. I think it's the traits are there and he's got a lot. You can see that he's got these things that all they need is just a little bit of sanding, and you've got
an excellent ballplayer here. And that's why I have him at one. This is a full projection for me, right. It's not a oh I've seen it. I feel great about it.
It's like kind of like why you like Drake may too exactly? Why? Yes, we thought we could avoid the quarterback talk, but there was yeah yeah, so I agree with that, and I'm not sure that it's I'm just not sure about his role. I thought his role was one thing when I started watching, and then I was like, is he just a true nickel? Do you want to take that guy in the top fifteen. I think there's
value there. Again, he's a good football player, So I'm not like trying to you know, like yes, absolutely, I just I just worry about how like I think maybe this is where expectations come out. I was like, he's good, but I was expecting him to be the best player in the defensive player in the draft because of some of the stuff I had read before.
Yeah, and speaking of a recovery speed, let's talk about Quenya on Mitchell.
Quenya on Mitchell Man, Like, this is a little bit of a projection too, Man, But when you talk about athletic traits, physical traits, like, there's nobody, nobody better in my opinion, in this class. Like he's the freakiest of the freaky. You know, He's runs a four to three nine, he's two hundred pounds, he's six foot, he's got great ball production in college. He's got excellent, excellent, excellent recovery speed,
excellent recovery speed. And I think when I watched him at the Senior Bowl, his ability to stay with some of the best receivers in the country, be physical, be quick, undercut stuff. I just think it's a projection because he played at Toledo obviously, and you're kind of like he's in this crazy soft zone coverage all the time. But I just was like, this guy's got got what it takes from a competitive standpoint and from a physical standpoint, all right, So he's my number one guy.
Here's you're gonna go on a little journey with me, okay, Right, I started off this process and here's what I wrote about him. I said, great recovery speed, but he needs to use it because he gets caught with his eyes in the backfield and it looks like he has flat feet at the beginning of place. That's why I.
Wrote, right, it's in his own coverage.
I didn't know that, all right, But we went to the Senior Bowl, right. We went to the Senior Bowl and I watched it, and here's what I typed here. Boy was I wrong? Kind of right? Kind of because he he still can get caught.
There was that route that Roman Wilson had on him where Roman Wilson, who's got these great stems, yeah, kind of got him turned around a little bit and he couldn't he couldn't use his speed basically, but.
He does have that recovery speed, and man does he catch right back up.
Yeah.
So those little at Toledo, I didn't know because it was the it was a competition he was playing with, and I was like, oh, well, this recovery speed looks elite on this state because of the competition. But then at the Senior Bowl. No, it's elite speed, it's going to play in the NFL. It's just so good. And then you're right, it's the z own coverage thing. Seeing him in those one on one drills. He wasn't doing anything and it looked very nice, very smooth, and very clean.
So is what he was asked to do. A lot of zone there at Toledo. So, boy, was I wrong. I moved this guy all the way up from being probably outside my five top five to number two, and he's right there for possibly number one. And a part of me wanted to die on the hill if he's not going to be good, just because like I wanted to do. Yeah, I want to trust myself in some way, and there's a little bit of pride right with this thing. And it's just like, man, I was just wrong. He's just a good player.
Yeah, he's just a good player, all right, A good player. Uh, we're going to do Nate Wiggins.
Let's do Nate Wiggins dinner plus ones than Cooper did.
Okay, all right, so Nate Wiggins. So Nate Wiggins. I don't like him that much, but he's my number two. Yeah, because he's the best coverage player in the Drafty, he's the best coverage player in the draft. Like, and he's six ' two, he's one hundred and eighty five pounds. He runs like the wind, and you know watching him against the receivers from Florida State, Now, I give the Florida State guys some leeway because I think the quarterback
from Florida State really struggle in that appearance. But he's never stressed, even with fast guys, He's never stressed. He's got incredibly smooth feet. Like if you like he's the best coverage play in the draft, that's like, you have the best coverage player in the draft. Be like out of the first round. Okay, he doesn't tackle, Well, let me ask.
You a question. What's an important thing you're gonna need to do on defense?
Tackle?
And what does he not like to do?
Tackle?
Doesn't like to tackle?
He doesn't like so important.
But teams are going to see him out there and they're going to go, fine, we're just gonna run the ball at you.
I know I don't like it, but he's the best coverage playing in the drafts. I mean, you can't disagree with that. I don't think I don't disagree for the same reason like Kaylen Bullock, Like he's a little bit more willing than Kailen Bullock to tackle, but it's not much, you know. And again he's playing corner so it's not as important. But his his his coverage fundamentals are excellent, and he's an excellent athlete. He's long, he's got all
of these things. So he reminds me a little bit of Go from last year and that I wasn't overly physical. Now the difference about Gonzales that he had in the bag because he was like two ten, you know what I mean. Yeah, and then this guy's like one hundred and eighty pounds, so he's much thinner. So it is a concern for me. But I just I cannot get past how good he is in coverage. And I yeah.
If you're Washington, you have Nate Williams on the team, right, which would be fantastic because you're playing Philadelphia and you can put them on AJ Brown or the Vonta Smithing.
You feel good, yeah, right, But then they decide they're gonna run the ball.
They're gonna run the ball.
Well, that's where I got to make sure that my linebackers are linebackers got ear in your paychecks? Defensive ends, Let's work. Let's try to make sure that he doesn't have to have like these full head of steam like card run fits. Like we're gonna talk about TJ. Tampa here in a second, Like TJ Tampa mightbe be my
favorite corner in the class. Worry about his top flight athleticism, but in a scheme similar to one that ran in Dallas, Like he's on the backside of a like with a two tight end set, two receivers away, slot away, and they're running right at him. I have a full one thousand percent confidence that he is going to get in there and get after that running back. And that's why I love him. He's got great alarm length. I love
him as a prospect. But again I think that this, this, this is maybe the way to think about it for me. Nate Wiggins was so good at covering. I had to overlook that, Like that's out. That's the point I got to. He was such a good coverage player, I had to kind of put that aside. So just take there for what it is, Like he's not gonna tackle anybody if he can help it, but he will lock down anybody in coverage. So that's how I look.
Yeah, I don't think there's anything else to say about it.
That's what he is.
He's just he's just not gonna tackle, but he's gonna lock somebody there.
Yeah, that's what he is. And so I didn't know how Like, so I guess the question is leave a comment. Is how you value that?
Yeah, it's it's interesting when you look at like a to Andre Sweat. He's not gonna he's not a great pass rusher, but he's gonna he's gonna clog up the run. Yeah, but we don't put him at number one. Yeah, So I guess it's I think it's his corner like value, it's position. Yeah, I get it. I I just I see it with it especially.
It's like Chop I put in Robinson.
That's a great way to play.
Shop Robinson like and it will get And the thing about Chop Robinson that drives me absolutely bonkers is Chop Robinson is is is this is why the comparison don't work. Imagine if Chop Robinson had twenty seven sacks, like that's what Nate Wiggins, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah, it's just if he was productive, and I think that's the thing that I come back to anyway. Sorry, what are we doing? We're doing Cooper?
Yeah, no, the plus ones do Cooper.
Okay, so you wanna go first?
Sure, I got cam Hart from Notre Dame. The reason I put him one year. You'll probably maybe fourth round, third, fourth somewhere there. He's a bigger body corner that I think just you're gonna need some of those guys around here. And he's a good tackler. He's a decent coverage guy, good instincts, good instincts. I'm trying to get to him here real.
Quick control, f blood control.
I know, I know here, he is here, he is Yeah. I think he's smart football player, decent athleticism, willing tackler. All right, So what are the downsides? There's nothing that really stands.
Out a little stiff, I think, yeah, for good.
Or bad, he's just kind of he's there and he makes he's there to make the play, but he doesn't make a great play and he gets beat. But he's always when when someone catches his touchdown on him, he's right there, right, It's not like he was burnt toast, right, So he's he's kind of like he's.
Good player and again great. I think the Senior Bowl kind of encapsulated that for me because he he made some great anticipatory interceptions. He does great in press coverage, and there's a couple of times where the guy across him is better and he loses a rep and I think you want to kind of get him in a scheme that's going to insulate him. But he's a big guy, seems really smart when you watch him play again, the stiffness is something that I keep coming back to. It's like,
how does that play it? As eventually he moved to safety, But yeah, I like the player a lot. I think the third or fourth round range is a little bit different. I feel like I have the antithesis of you with my pick, even though they're very similar. Players. Is Kyrie
Jackson from Oregon. He's six for He's one hundred ninety five pounds, crazy long arms, and he would transfer from Alabama, went to or is a little bit all over the place, like you know, like we talked about cam Heart being controlled and discipline and where he's supposed to be at all times, Like Kyrie Jackson is a wild horse man. He's a freaky athletic. He's got great length, he's got
good recovery speed when you watch him. He's great in press man situations because his hands are on guys and he's long enough to like even if he gets beat the fleck passes. But in zone coverage, his eyes are a little bit all over the place. He's a willing tackler. He's downhill, just a lot of kind of rough edges on him that you need to file down. But I think the I think the player is there, and if the kids built the right way, you can get something.
You can get a starter out of him, probably in the third fourth round area.
I think, all right, here it is Cooper Jajen.
No, here we go. So I have him as a corner corner, all right.
The reason I have him as a corner is because that's a premium position and he does it really, really, really well. So why would I want to move him to safety where he does that well? But I would rather have him play corner because that's a pre position. It's kind of like vaky, right, Like, he's really good
as a safety. He's good as a safety. He could be excellent as a running back, So why not move him to running back right, Like, it's one of those things where you're gonna have to justify that to me, which I think you'll make a good case. You've done it before. But he's big, he's comfortable playing with his eyes on the quarterback or the wide receiver, it doesn't matter. He feels fine back there. He has great footwork, nice click and clothes. Although it's not like explosive, it's very smooth.
Mixes it up in the run game. He's not flashy. He just says everything. Well. I think you call him a football playing Johnny.
Football paying john That's what he is. I agree, that's what my evaluation would read very similar. I think the one thing that kind of swayed me is there's not a lot of all twenty two of Iowa defense, but there's one game that's against Ohio State and they're in a lot of Cover three and he's off, like way off. And even in these off situations like Marvin Harrison Junior and the other receivers there, like they're running by and
he's having a hard time with his turn. He's in these situations where you're like, there's when you watch him in his click and clothes, you say, it's like a little bit. It's deliberate, it's smooth. It is smooth, but there's also a little bit of stiff, the slightest bit of stiffness to him, right, because he's a little bit muscle bound. He's a little bit a bigger guy, right, And so I thought, yeah, like can he physically play corner? Sure, but when he goes up against the top flight receivers,
like you're gonna be sweating bullets. Imagine to me, treat him like Rock Bowers and that he is a defensive weapon. Because when you watch Mniowa, he plays linebacker, plays Buffalo Nicho, plays safety, plays corner. You know else did that was what's what's the dude's name? From LSU a couple of years ago, the Honey Badger. What's his name? Tyron Matthew, Tyron Matthew. If you get him in a situation like that, he will change your defense immediately. So I think that's
a position of value. It's like, let him learn all these different spots. He did it. Like you said, he mixes up in the run game, he can covered tight ends. He's a good athlete, he's got good ball skills. I just worry about the top tier, flexibility and mobility to play corner, and why would I like It's like when it's like with Sam Cosby. Like Sam Cosby can play tackle and was fine playing tackle, but he's an elite guard. Like I want an elite guy that's going to be
a chess peace on my defense. That's going to change the way we play the game from that standpoint. And so that's why I put him in safety.
He has great ball skills, great balls, he returned that played well at safety. Yeah, I get Look, if you draft him, this is a good problem to have. He's so good we don't know where to put him. I'd be happy, super happy if he was somehow on Washington. All right, here it is the edges to round it
out our top fives. I'll go first this time. I have at five Chris Braswell from Alabama, for Darius Robinson from Missouri, three Jared Verus Florida State, two Dallas Turner from Alabama, and one Leaatu Latu from Ucla.
Yeah, so I've got five and it's kind of a slash, but I'm gonna say that the first name. We'll talk about the other guy in a second. Darius Robinson from Missouri, Marshawn Neeland from Western Michigan, Jared Verse from Florida State, Dallas Turner from Alabama, and Laatu Latu from UCLA.
Where would you like to start on this one? How about that we don't have Chop Robinson on.
This Yeah, And to me, Chop Robinson's kind of slash five. He's probably my sixth guy on here. And he is he is so hard to talk about and evaluate because God bless he is. He's got juice, man, and I love the juice. When I see an edgresser with juice, it's hard for me not to just be like, take him, because it's hard to coach juice. But I just said, I want these are I like these football players better.
I like Darius Robinson as a football player better. Like I watched the Missouri game versus LSU about five times, and that tackle that he's going against, the left tackle is going to be probably a second round pick next year, and he is wearing that guy out because he's got heavy hands, he's strong, he finishes, he's got great length, and I'm just like, you know, is he a defensive tackle? Is he a defensive end? I like the idea of him with a long runway just you know, being big
and being mean and being physical. And again that's not to say CHOP's not a good football player. I just there's something about him that I just I like that about him.
If I were to take Chop Robinson, I'd rather take Chris Braswell, really, yes, because I am I am kind of high on him because I think they have the same sort of things. Now, Chop does his one thing better, but I think Braswell has a very He's also very explosive, and he's just as raw his uh speed to power is that what they call it? Like very good? I would he's raw. I would rather take him than Chop personally because I think that there are some things there.
He's he has hands that are fast, he has at athleticism to turn a little better than Chop does. So I'm just seeing these little things that like Chop is so fast, so fast off the line, he's dom treto and fast and furious, just live in his life a quarter mile at a time, get in the gas. But it's it's that turn is just and when you're that fast and you have that elite of a skill, why are you not productive in college.
Right, that's maybe I don't know it could.
Be, but it just scares me, right, it scares me. Whereas Braswell has all these freakish athletic traits and it's like he's showing a little bit more of Oh, I see something there athletically that I can coach up, where for instance, Chop is very stiff, looks like an action figure. You know those old wrestling action figures. They're plastic up top and they just they only turn like this. He looks like that. Brasswell doesn't look like that. No, he can,
he can bend a little more. He's not super bendi, he's not a lot too, but there's enough there that I'm like, I would rather take that. I would do one tick less of that speed to get all these other things right. And that's why he's at five for me, and Chop is at like six seventies.
He's right there, he's right there.
But that's why he's up Brasswall.
Yeah, like I said, it's hard. It was hard for me not to put Chop my top five, just because he's got that juice. And you see clips to him, like highlights of him, like just his lateral quick, are you just like Wow, this guy in the right system, in the right setup, with the right coaching could be dangerous. But again I could hear my heart led me to the guy who plays football the way it should be played in that's Darius Robinson. Another guy, Marshawn Neelan. I'm
probably a little higher on him the most. I just think when I watch him, he's six three, he's two seventy. He's got great bend, he's got great change direction. He plays like an absolute maniac. At Western Michigan plays like a maniac. And at the Senior Bowl, I thought he showed enough pass rush upside of how to kind of nice little euro step speed to power. There was more diversity of his pass rush there. And I want him
on the team. I want him here because I really appreciate that type of football player and that type of mentality. And I think his floor is really high. I think his ceiling's really high. I like him. I just I love what he brings. And that's all I can That's all I have to say about him.
All Right, let's do Jared versut Alisna a lot to real quick. First, what do you like about him?
Verse? He's physical, as all get out. Man, he'll dent your face mask. He'll be physical. Love that about him. He's very productive. He is a great athlete. I think the one thing is the bend, and that's why he's three for me. He just doesn't bend at a high level, and he gets me concerned about his ability to take that elite power from six sacks to ten or eleven sacks. So that's my only concern with him.
Yeah. I saw that he whips every now and then on tackles. It's a small thing. His hands are like clubs. Yeah, they're very strong, very aggressive, like Claymore swords. He's just swinging those around and they look like they hurt. But yeah, he's very strong, very aggressive. Dallas Turner, why do you like him at two? Because we have the same ones here. That's why I'm just going on.
Turner is the freak of the class. Everyone says chop, but I think when you look at his measurables, his bend, his agilities, his production, he's a freak. I think you don't see the most intuitive football player of all time, and I think that's why it's hard. It's because he's productive, But to my mind, he should be more productive is really what it comes down to. But I think I think with the right coaching and the right system, Like if I'm a scout, if I'm a GM, I'm I'm
drafting him basically saying, coach, figure it out. Like he's got it, we know he's got it, we've seen it. Make it happen more, and that's all we're doing. And I think you get a ten eleven sec guy kind of out that got the gate just based on athletic Yeah, and it's not just and that's not just speed that's been that's strength, that's all of these things. Like his combine was legendary. Like he's like forty inch vertical around a four four seven. He's got thirty five inch Like
he is a freaky dude. He's six foot. He's built to be a pass rusher. He's built to be a pass rusher. So that's why just coach, figure it out.
Yeah. I called him Chop Robinson with bend perfect. And this is why Chop is just not up there because he it's awesome that you're fast, but like Turner is fast and can bend. Yeah, right, he's got the motor. The thing is the same as chap Robinson is a little wild at times, like his hands are sometimes kind of all over the place.
To say that, because I feel like a lot of people have him as a lock to Atlanta at eight. But to me, I'm like, it's a he's got to develop a little bit.
It's a development piece. But man, all the pieces are all the pieces are there, which leads to I think a lot of people have Let Okay, he's my number one. I don't think he's going off the board as the first RUSS. I just don't. And it's because of the medical history. And I have a hard time figuring out where to place him when it comes to mock drafts that we do or these top fives because of that medical history. And a part of me is like the dude decided to play, So I'm just gonna ignore it.
And maybe that's maybe that's wrong of me, and maybe NFL teams are not doing that. They're probably not doing that because you're investing a lot in this. But I want to take the ninja black belt.
Dude. Dude's got no bones. Yeah crazy, He's so good is his bend, his timing, his rolodex of moves. He's not a bad and not a great athlete, not a bad athlete, but just like, watch he.
Tested better at the combine than you thought, which is that only Yeah, we were like, oh, well, he's not gonna be a great athlete, he's not gonna do what.
But but then he takes like right right in the middle. Yeah, and so like, whoa, that's what, right in the middle with one of the most productive college pass rushers ever. And I'm like, why isn't this guy being talked about going higher? And you know, you watch the USC game, watch the Utah game, watch the Oregon State game. Do like there's times where he just he can't be touched, like and it's unbelievable. And it's not just one play. It's like play after play after play after play, and
just again, the medical is a concern. Maybe the top flight athleticism doesn't really bother me, but I'm sure it's concerning to some. But the film, the film is the film, and he's got the best film in the class.
I think, oh my gosh. Yeah, And what you're saying, like his bend is how he dips his shoulders, like you said, no bones just looks like water running. When we were at the Senior Bowl. They were just doing a drill where they were bending and turning around the upright write that post and it's like you were like, that's him, and he's like, oh, yeah, you can tell. It just looks different. It's funny. I actually got out my phone the other day. I deleted the recording so
you can't ask for it. But there's a pillar at my in law's house, their home, and I was like, I'm going to try that, and I tried that drill of like bending out.
I was like, it's crazy.
I had to move so slow to get my body to do that. And of course I am not the same in the same athletic condition as he is, but I was trying, and my wife's like, what are you doing. I'm like, I just want to see what he's doing and then imagine trying to do it one hundred times faster, and it's wild that he can do that. It's really wild body control.
Honestly, if you guys just have like a couple of minutes, go look up a highlight or go watch the USC game, go watch the Utah game. Like it's it's very impressive.
Yeah, and not only does he have these things, it's if he gets caught in one of them or one of them isn't successful, immediately transitions into something else.
So such a fantastic is everybody else in this class into your ed drusher linebacker the second they get caught, they're boned. And he just has the ability to be like, Nope, I got my next thing. Oh you got that one too, next thing.
Yeah, he could do. I've I saw at the Senior Bowl. There was one rep. It was a one on one. I can't remember who it was he was going against, but.
The tackle did it from Utah.
He did a good job. He held him right and Leotu tried the bend didn't work. I think he tried like I tried to spin and then it didn't work. And it was like then a swim or.
You kind of hit him with like what I call like a bull like a bullet transition, Like I hit him down the middle of the guy did a great job finding the edge and then he just kind of tapped his elbow, worked his shoulder over, ducked his inside shoulder and was right there for the place.
Yes, and it's like whoa yeah, like the yeah, Jean Claude Fan Dam's nindro back there, he's got.
All the moves and who's your plus one? I like your plus one a lot. Almost put him on here.
Jonah Ellis, Yeah, he is from Utah. He to me on films. He looks small, but he has long arms. He measured decently long arms, and he has good bursts and exposure energy, excellent motor, keeps working even when blocked up well, like even if he's he is not gonna stop, just trying to grind. He can lose his balance just a little bit, but he's got quick feet and he uses those long arms to eventually shed the blocks. I just I like his motor. I like his tenacity and.
Got an absolutely brutal spin move. Like his spin move is excellent.
There you go see excellent.
He's got an excellent spin move. He's got like a nice past rush pedigree. His dad, his brother, his cousin, his other brother Ale play in the NFL. He knows what this is about. Like I love there's a thing. Like he's a little underside, but his length you can see tight ends and tackles try to get on him. He understands how to kind of work his hips, use his length. Throw guys on the ground pursuit of the football. Like he's just got it, you know what I'm saying.
Like I worry a little bit about his side. I think he's only six two right, six two, Yeah, a little undersize, so like what's his role? But like in a stand up three four edge guy, you know, situational pass rush guy. I really liked that.
I could see him aut a place like this and having a.
Yeah, like finding it like they like this staff would find a way to get him on the field and make productive.
This for him and your guy.
I love your guy too, Javon Solomon. Is he six foot or is he six?
Real quick?
Yeah? Six foot? I think he's four he's a two forty sixth sixty five. Oh, he's definitely not six to two. He's shorter than that for sure.
I bet it's what do you wait? That's what he measured in at at the Commine. Yeah, six two forty five.
He was so like, why would he have six? Anyway? It doesn't matter. I think what I love about this guy is he's short. He's kind of stubby, he doesn't have long arms, but has great kind of bounding ability and a great feel for pass rush. He had seventeen
sacks last year and that production is awesome. And I think if you were to get him in like a Bryce Huff type role where he's a situational pass rusher for a couple of years, a guy that can move around the formation, started off ball linebacker again, a place like this is going to his pass rushing ability would be awesome. Really like him again, undersized, you know, to strugg a little bit at the COMBA or at the
Senior Bowl. Not an every down player just yet, but I really like people that have a good feel for rushing the passer.
Yeah, I think his size is what could be limiting, but he's going to be a rotational pass rusher almost immediately. Right, he's got I think you say this before, he's got the juice right, Just there's something that he was at Troy, right and he dominated, which is what you want to see from a guy at facing the type of competition that he would. Yeah, So that did it, right.
Let's sad it we made it through the whole defense and we only talked about quarterback for like thirty second second. Yeah, but yeah, that's going to do it. And again, lots of defensive prospects in there, if there's a guy that you guys like that we didn't talk about, please throw him in there. We got a couple more shows to go yet. Before the draft, we'll make sure we talk about those players. Remember there's about three hundred and farder guys.
We have watch all of them yet, We're gonna be honest. Yeah, I watched a lot of them without all of them.
And it's hard to recall them. I have to have my computer here because I'm I don't have to recall you do. It's amazing that you can remember these arm lengths and all.
Of that's it's like it's an obsession, you know what. I think about it all the time.
It's pretty crazy. All right. So next week we'll have Connor Rodgers. He'll do tight ends with you, and of course you can't escape the quarterback discussion. I'm sure he'll talk about that. Yeah, And then following that, it will be the week of the draft and we will have an episode that is very special for you. We can announce it because we're gonna do it.
We're gonna do a seven round, we hit ourselves round.
And it's going to be Selby and Fred Smooter are going to join in this one, and we're gonna do it the week of the draft, and that way people can listen to it and then hear how wrong we are almost immediately because the drafts are just like who knows well, but we're gonna do all seven rounds where you get every pick.
We're excited about it, so thank you so much for joining, and please make sure to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. That's it, that's it. H