On today's episode of Ticket of the Draft podcast, we're talking my favorite position, tight ends. We're also talking quarterbacks with Jeremy Green, one of the best draft analysts I know. By the end of the draft season he's gonna have over seven hundred guys done. And we're talking is Shad Or Sanders Batman. It all starts right now.
Welcome to the Ticket of the Draft Podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with justin guy, Jason and our very very special guest Jeremy Green, who joined us at the combine and helped us and got us that podcast out. And it's always great having smart people on the show.
Jeremy, how you doing.
I'm good.
I don't know when the smart guys showing us, but I'm really glad to be here.
Well, I'll call you smart. You can call yourself dumb. That's totally fine. And just as a reminder, we are presented by Seakeek this summer. Seekeeek has your ticket to the best live concerts in the DMV at Northwest Stadium. Seakeek the official primary ticketing partner of Northwest Stadium. But today we're doing tight ends Jason, and we're doing quarterbacks. We're gonna start with tight ends because that's how you tease the more important position.
I guess, yeah, absolutely, And there's no one better to talk to you than this than the highest riser at the combine. The stock price just shot through the roof with mister Jeremy Green here the ESPN draft nerd. Yeah, he was a savior for us out there when we had some technical difficulties, and he was also the guest on our number one show so far this year, highest rated show, this year, highest viewed show. I think it's all about him. It's nothing to do with the Deebo
Samuel trade break. That has everything to do with him being one.
Yeah. So Jeremy, So before we got started, we were.
Talking about kind of tight ends and how you felt like this was a good one for people to kind of get used to your process. And you know, tight end is a really interesting position for me because I played it. But I guess, let's start off at the highest of levels, you know, like what kind of traits are you looking for and how do you start your
evaluation process with a tight end? Because I think the position and what's important for the position has changed quite a bit over the last ten fifteen twenty years.
Well, I'm not as I like a tight end that can block, right. Very few of these guys that are coming in is really refined blockers because the game is so much different now than it was ten to fifteen years ago. So you get a guy like Tyler Warren that it makes me laugh every time I hear somebody say he's a good blocker.
No he's not.
He's not a good blas matter of fact, he's abjectly terrible at it. The only thing is that every other tight end in this class is worse at it than he is. So as you see that progression change where you get way less guys that come into the league as natural blockers. I think Terrence Ferguson is ant is a more natural blocker. Not necessarily great at it, but he's more natural at it. And I'm comparing him to Gunner Helm, who I'm reasonably sure couldn't he couldn't block me.
I'm and right now my.
Forty's fallen in somewhere about seven oh seven to one, So that's really not awesome. But then I look to a kid Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame that gets absolutely no love. I would say he's one of the better blockers in this class, which really kind of tells you how low end we are on that tip, because this is a guy that I'll say, when I first started doing this ten years ago, Mitchell Evans would have been a net negative as a blocker. Now he is a
better contested catch guy. He's got a higher run block rate than the abject failures that some of these other guys have, so he's almost more of a balanced tight end.
Now.
Now we were talking about the difference in my process, I coll probably seventy percent.
Of the games you play. I do this with quarterbacks.
I do with wide receivers, running backs, tight ends, basically everything that's not an offensive line.
What you said seventy percent of the game, as you watched seventy percent of the games that you just.
Said, yep, and then I call them immediately. I'll watch through the actual plays, Like I'm looking at Mitchell Evans and when I did the film breakdown on him, So, Miami of Ohio was out the window immediately, so was Stanford, so as Navy.
So it was Florida State, Virginia.
Uh.
The ones that I really looked at with him were Indiana, Georgia, Penn State, Purdue, and Texas A and M. Because that's the those are the only teams he played that you're playing one on one, so you're getting a guy that might actually play in the NFL. Some of these other guys are gonna be selling insurance for Geico. I don't care that you can light that guy up. That doesn't
mean anything to me. So I want to see what you look like, not necessarily third round draft prospect versus third round draft prospect, draftable talent versus draftable talent.
And those are the tapes that I really look at.
Now, Jeremy, you were mentioning blocking in there and that this class may not be great at blocking in your opinion. So my question is, like, what do you look for in a tight end? Is blocking like really high up there? If you're a good blocker, you moving them up the board. Because you mentioned before we started this show that the guy sitting here with us, mister Logan paulsy And who made a career out of just being a nasty son of a gun at blocking in the run game. You
you said you scouted him at one point. You put that in there, right.
I did.
He was the best blocker in the class that he in twenty ten. I think it was in twenty ten.
Yes, that's exactly right.
You were the best blocker in that class for me. And the Logan Paulson of this tight end class is Jackson Halls from Georgia Tech.
My favorite.
I knew that was going to be your favorite.
I wrote him down of give Logan a chance to say this guy's name.
Yeah, I mean, he's a guy that I just enjoy watching because he's super physical. And again, this is something that I have a really hard time with. And you talked about blocking in general, and I love your process. I love how you go through the games. I love how you select the guys with draftable talent. The thing that gets me is like Jackson Hawes is going to be a good pro in the NFL. Like he will have a role, he'll be the John Bates for some team. He'll play ten years in the NFL. But and it's
an important part of the position. And he has soft hands. He's not a great rout runner, he's not a great separator. He's very similar to me as a player. The thing is is like, you'll play ten years, but where do you draft someone like that. Obviously, Jackson Hawes is from Georgia Tech. He's was excellent in the run game this year, really shows an aptitude and an intensity for it. But you know, Jeremy, how do you weigh that, like, because
I don't. I don't think i'd probably take him before the third or fourth round because again, the league doesn't value that skill set as much anymore, even though it is valuable to NFL rosters.
So the way that I build my board and I just finished the initial big board, so I have three hundred and twenty nine draftable grade.
Now you're a psycho.
You're a psycho. I am a psycho. I need a life. People see my wife and they go, good, lord, how did you get a girl that attractive to marry you when you are a psychopath watching Tommy fedone tape at four am like a.
Lunatic as she's patient.
So the way I stack my board is I day three for me is more specialized. Guys, all right, So, whether it's Jackson Hawes that we were just talking about that is a blocking specific tight end or leaquent Allen the runback from Syracuse that I don't think he gives you anything as a runner but man, he's got really soft hands, and I'll use him as the third part of a running back committee, and I could keep doing that with different positions. That's what I'm looking for in
day three. So I'm looking at I've got Jackson Hawes pulling up my board here. I have Haws in the back end around five. Okay, so he's he's in a really weird group because he's with I have four fifth round tight ends. They couldn't be more different if they tried, But I think they all have a value right there, depending on what you're looking for.
So I love Hauls.
If you're looking for the blocker Aronde Gatst that is really just a big slot.
So he's an interesting prospect too.
But that you said that, you kind of like put guys there because of specificity, Like he's a converted wide receiver, big dude, do you think he can consistently win those one on one matchups versus man coverage. That's the thing that gets me, because I do think he has some there's something to him, and I think he's going to get overdrafted because of the pass catching stuff.
I it depends how you look at him. I think where people make mistakes with tight ends. A lot is Aronde Gaston is, So they converted him to tight end. What actually changed about what he does?
Other than the.
Two word or two letter acronym that they put beside his name. He's a tight end because you told me he's a tight end. In terms of his route tree and all those things, virtually nothing changed. Yeah, So really all he is is a big slot. He's a bigger slower slot. Now the question is do you run a scheme where that works. I'll give you a good example of one that ties into the NFC East. The Raiders ran a scheme for years where Darren Waller could win. Darren Waller was freakishly fast for a guy that.
Was six'.
Six, yeah but then he goes to The giants And giants don't run that, scheme so they're trying to play him. Inline he's not a big slot.
Anymore.
Now he's a really bad inline, blocker and it kind of ran him out of the league because he couldn't hold up physically to. That so if you're looking For Ronde gatson to be a big slot, receiver you're, fine AND i think he will. Win you're gonna have to scheme some of that. Out SO i mean having a receiver inside him Like Jalen lane From Virginia Tech Dante thornton From. TENNESSEE i need somebody that can take that safety over the top BECAUSE.
I want him on a. Linebacker.
Yeah and So i'm gonna scheme that he's not gonna play more than fifteen or twenty snaps for. Me that's why he's a fifth round grade for. Me BUT i can scheme that WHERE i get him into the right spot and THEN i can use what he.
Does.
Yeah and so who are the other two guys you have in the fifth? Round? There just as to kind of finish this, Example.
Gunner helm who he? Did he did sprain his. Ankle i've seen the. PICTURE i Called shenanigans on the. Well he sprayed his. Ankles so of course he ran a four nine to. Five, nope that foot was not the right. COLOR i will give him a bullip on that four nine to. FIVE i didn't love him to begin with because he's A he's another one that's just a he's a big wide.
Receiver he's a, big slow wide. Receiver.
Yeah and Then Tommy fanlon out Of, nebraska WHO i absolutely.
Love, YEAH i like Fid on a lot.
Too, yeah The, nebraska and Again helm's out Of, texas And Orlando gats And Orandi gatz and excuse, me he's out Of. Syracuse so that's a really interesting group BECAUSE i think all those guys are PLAY nfl, minutes AND i think that really illuminates kind of the QUESTION i had for you at the, start which, is how do you value that because those guys are GONNA i think all those, guys maybe outside Of Gunner, Helm i'm probably a little lower on than, you just again BECAUSE i
don't know what he does. WELL i don't think he separates versus man coverage the way That, Ronde gatz And. KEN i don't think he blocks in line the way that you Know Jackson hawes can From Georgia. Tech, like it's, interesting BUT i think all those guys will, play AND
i think that's really good value for the. Position so THEN i guess my next follow up question would, be like you, know now let's get in your top five is, obviously where do you feel comfortable taking a tight end because it's a position that's not necessarily super valuable because of the. Contract, obviously you see people being successful The George, kittles The Travis kelsey as you Mentioned Darren, Waller so, like where do you feel comfortable taking the first tight?
End and, why, oh If i'm taking the first, One i'm comfortable taking my number one at five?
Five is that because of the drafts weaker this? Year or is that because he's that?
GOOD i have three elite prospects in this? Class, okay So i've got so for, me anything over a nine to five is generational.
TALENT i have three of.
Those and WHAT i get out too is one of them a tight.
End, NO i have a running back and a tight end that are my four and five. Overall, okay and they have just below generational. Number but then they get dinged because they play a position that is not as valuable to. Me, sure SO i multiply running back by zero point eight, NINE i multiply tight end by point nine to. Two so that brings your grade down just
a hair because of positional. VALUE i think a good tight end that can that can play in, LINE a good tight end that can play kind of the role that they've tried to have For Kyle pitts and actually do it well where you can win on the outside that's such a matchup nightmare that WHEN i find one of those, GUYS i almost don't even want to ding them for being tight. Ends AND i think there's two of those in this. CLASS i love, that and SO i think that's that's a.
REALLY i think that's that illuminates an issue that's going around THE, nfl is positional. VALUE i love how you have a multiplication set for. That, WELL i think that's a. REALLY i might adopt that actually moving, forward because that's so. Smart so let's start getting into the list a little. Bit let's go with your fifth tight end on your, board and Then i'll tell you my fifth and we'll kind of go through the.
List SO i have three that are. Borderlines they've got almost the same. Grade there's three tenths of a points save right in them. All, Okay Harrold fannin at a buling, Green, okay that would be technically my. Seven Mitchell evans And Terrence ferguson have the same, grade so they're both my.
Five, Okay, Okay Mitchell evans And Terrence. Ferguson, Okay so let's talk About Mitchell. Evans i'm, surprised not, surprised that's the wrong. Word you, KNOW i think he's a good football. PLAYER i think when you watch, him you see some of the stuff you talked, about the in, line the pass catching.
ABILITY i worry about the raw. HORSEPOWER i think the.
Position one of the ways you talked about, is you, know value is the running game is being, devalued but the, athletics the athletic traits of a tight end seem to be more. Valued and so WHEN i look at, HIM i wonder about his overall horsepower and if you can get it done at THE nfl. Level and IF i said that to, you what would you say to.
ME i can't tell you that you're.
Wrong that's the reason he's not higher for, me BECAUSE i want him to be my three in terms of just ability to play, football AND i don't really have a way to quantify. THAT i look at a tight end that has a seventy almost seventy three percent contested catch rate in, college of you're not going to separate particularly well at the next. Level But i've also said that about a handful of tight ends over the. Years one of the guys THAT i was the most dogmatic
on when he came. Out this is WHERE i got the dubbing the tight end whisperer BECAUSE i couldn't believe that nobody saw. It The Baltimore ravens took two tight ends handful years, Ago Hayden hurst From South carolina THAT i think already qualified FOR aarp when he got, drafted and Then Mark, andrews AND i couldn't figure out why are people not seeing? This With, Andrews he's a natural route, Runner he's very. Crafty is he crazy? Fast?
No is he a great?
Mover? No but he knows how to play this baz and he knows how to settle down over the middle not get killed for one because he is a, bigger more, lumbering slower. Guy AND i say the same thing With Mitchell. Evans he's just a really crafty tight. End And i've watched those guys succeed in this league for a lot of.
Years is it?
Risky, absolutely because he can't win with straight line. Speed he's not going to win as a great route. Runner he's going to win because he's a really smart football player that knows how to play this.
Position i'm really glad you brought Up Mark andrews because he's a guy for me THAT i THOUGHT i totally missed on the route running nuance when he was At. Oklahoma they didn't ask him to do a ton of, stuff but his rookiear in THE. Nfl you saw the, stems you saw the, breakdowns you saw him understanding his own. Coverage and SO i, mean if you Think Mitchell evans has that those, traits like that's something that again that would probably move me, up it would move him up my.
BOARD i haven't seen that.
NECESSARILY i think it's more of an offensive thing for, Me like they don't ask him to do a ton of super, complicated nuanced stuff, There BUT i think that's a really interesting value. Point, now let's talk About Terrence, ferguson who is your other. FIVE i have him as my. FOUR i really really like him a. LOT i think he's got kind of the opposite of what we're talking about With Mitchell. Evans he's got kind of this athletic course.
Power he's not as technically, refined but he's got this kind of playmaker basketball athlete to, him WHICH i think translates really well to the next. Level he's got the length as.
WELL i.
Agree the thing that makes me a little nervous On ferguson is THAT i think people are gonna fall in love with the raw. Athletic the worst thing you can be to me is. Overdrafted if you told me Where Terrence ferguson, went, like you give me a pick. Range if it's sixty to seventy, FIVE i think his.
Bus rates through the. Roof really every fifteen.
Picks it gets better because you're gonna ask him to DO i don't want a team to ask him to. Do it's like you, said he's not refined in. This he's very much a Currently he's a really big kid that is still learning the nuance of playing tight. End he's the exact opposite Of Mitchell. Evans If Mitchell evans was In Terence ferguson's, body we'd be talking about him as to be or one, be or however you wanted to quantify. It because he has natural ability That Mitchell
evans doesn't. Have the problem is THAT i don't want. Him i'll give you an. Example these are two very different, players BUT i think they have very similar. Situations isaiah likely a kid THAT i covered At Coastal. Carolina he goes To. Baltimore he plays Behind Mark andrews for two.
Years this is year. THREE i think.
If he had gone somewhere as a number one tight, END i wouldn't have loved him because he needed to develop all of those. Skills isaiah likely was a basketball player that played. Football it just so happened that his body type fit better because he wanted. It as a basketball. Player he was a host. Guy but he's only like six, three six, four so he never developed as a post because as time goes, On Terrence, Ferguson isaiah, likely all these guys find the same thing THAT i. DID i
got to six' FIVE and. I stopped it's actually six four and, some change but six five. THIRS better i PLAYED like i was seven. Feet, tall well the problem is that all these guys keep getting BIGGER and. I didn't so The fact i'm, a big slow. Post player It's The jimmy. Graham Rule jimmy graham was a great, post player. Insanely athletic he translated that into becoming a great football player because he took the raw skills that
he had and refined them. Over time if you had asked him to block, in line he would run him out of the league because he couldn't do it right if You Put terrence ferguson in the. Right Situation and i'm gonna be honest, WITH you I think washington is the. Right Situation if i'm. BEING hundredson i said THAT because i KIND of i loved Him.
IN washington.
I have your capital pulled up in front. Of me BUT if i could get to it, pretty quickly if you Told me washington took him with whatever pick you have in the, fourth.
ROUND yeah i think we just traded in the trade for laramytunsl we got to, pick back, SO yeah. I agree i think that's kind of a luxury pick backup for. A year i think his skill set mirror Is what zach does, really well or it's obviously he's got that ability and they got, that UPSET and i do think. He's raw and the OTHER thing i wanted to bring up to you before we got into the Next person i'll tell you my five for in a Second is i'm hard pressed to think of a position outside of.
Defensive end tight end now is where we're talking about that relies more on athletic traits in terms of translating to the. Next level how much does that factor into, your EVALUATION because i think it's one of those positions again that like you see the athletes, be successful the guys with the, long arms the guys with, the height the guys that can run the four, to six they are the guys that start AT the. Nfl level And Obviously mitchell evans isn't, that guy you know?
For, Sure yeah so, FOR me i have three there's three archetypes of. Tight end, for me there's the, hyper athletic. Hyper talented then there's the hyper talented. Lesser athletic then there's the, lesser talented. Hyper athletic fanin is the super athletic Kid that i'm not sure you're all.
THAT talented i.
Think you've got a raw skill set that if a team is willing to, develop it kind of like they Did, with likely because that's who he reminds me of, a lot then you're going to. Be fine the PROBLEM that i Had with fannin WAS that i kept seeing him in that forty five. Ish range he's not a second round, tight end and if you put second round tight end pressure on him where he's got to come in and play.
Right away So The jason morrow rule That the jets drafted him years AGO and i, could not for the life of me, figure out what are you seeing in? This kid he's a, developmental five if, he's anything and then you put the pressure on him and you ran him out of.
The, league so in terms of who, you're four who's your four? Right now is Is It harold fannin or is he, you know he's? Your seven you said who's?
Your four fans.
My seven Evans and ferguson are tied at five, for me And Then mason taylor is.
My Four So.
Mason taylor is, my FIVE and i want to just Hit on harold Fan and junior. Real quick he is also. MY seven i think we see it. VERY similarly i think his film in college. Is good it's a, little unconventional Played At bowling green not necessarily didn't test as WELL as i. WAS hoping i think you need some time to develop and find, a ROLE and i think you need an offense that kind of is going to be patient with him to kind of piggyback.
On that let's Talk About mason taylor.
Real quick but before we come, off FACE can i just say. ONE thing i FEEL like i said a lot of NEGATIVE and i always want to say a POSITIVE when i. Have, it yeah two of the best games fan and played were against the best teams.
They, Played Yeah penn state And Stateon. Texas ain now those.
Two tapes are enough for me to take him around the top one.
Hundred, ish, YEAH no i agree. With that, and again like, it's funny like you watch him At The, senior bowl. He wins you watch him, in college. HE wins i don't. Understand why it's not, overly technical it's not, overly clean but he figures out a way to get. It done and so you know that the tape doesn't, Lie Ultimately and i'm gonna support that because he had A Good senior.
Bowl week and would you say you said this we Were, at, indianapolis right, you said if, one off two of three, Are good so, your combine your tape Or Your senior bowl. Are good two of those three, Are good like we're. Doing OKAY and i feel like he had two of the three that were.
Pretty solid so.
He didn't ast as WELL as i wanted. Him, to yeah it was A little i agree with you.
Hartily. There yeah so let's Talk About. Mason taylor he's kind of.
EVERYONE'S favorite i saw him at the top of the second round for a lot of these people in the. Mock draft he's in the top forty for, you know some of these. BIG boards i don't necessarily. See that i'd see a good. Football player how do you?
SEE him i had an evaluator FOR a nfc team tell Me That mason taylor was the kid that they were the most convinced was going in the first round that no one was.
Talking about really not.
GONNA lie i don't think my jaw has come off the ground since that was said.
TO me i don't see a first.
ROUND great i don't see, it EITHER but.
I see a. Raw kid let Me if i'm crazy, on this you feel free to Tell me i'm crazy. On. THIS yeah i had a Rule About.
ELI manning i have a lot of RULES because i see GUYS and I go i've read this book BEFORE and i didn't like. The Ending If mason taylor's Name Was, mason smith would we be talking?
About, Him, Dude dude i'm on the same page. As you i'm on the, same, page like let me just tell. You this let me tell YOU what i think. ABOUT him i think he's good, in line good in line, he's competitive, he's tough he catches the, football well but he's not a plus athlete and he's not great. In line so he's a really, good PLAYER and i don't know where you value that because, TO me i think his ceiling is a guy like that's going to be. Your blocking why that's not, as big or as strong
or as technically sound as a Guy Like. John BATES so i, get again are you drafting. THE competitor i understand that his competitive tape, is excellent but to say that he's going to go in the, FIRST round i don't think he's a good enough athlete to. Do that and THAT'S where i KIND of i don't know what to do. With HIM because i like watching, THE film i like. The player everyone says he's a. GREAT kid i love, All that but how do you value that
if he doesn't have the athletic ceiling to get. You there it's kind of the same thing we're talking About With. Mitch EEVANS like I Like mitch, evans's tape, but like if you don't have the athletic horsepower to get, it done what's your role at the next level IN?
The nfl my biggest Question With mason taylor is if Now that i've seen the measurables, on you and he came in at six oh five one two, fifty one he, didn't run which that's a story for. Another day some of you guys are getting real bad Advice, on hey we. Shouldn't run we'll run At, the no don't don't. Do that it doesn't end well because one of the biggest Questions On mason, Taylor, is okay so you've got all the, raw measurables why were you never that red?
Zone? Threat sure when you had all of the things that should be bumping. You up you played with, malite neighbors you played with all of these really talented wide.
Receivers they HAD. At lsu why were you never the red zone threat when you're drawing one on one, Coverage consistently so you couldn't meet that consistently in college IN, the sec which is the closest thing we have TO the. Nfl game But now i'm supposed to believe that you're gonna come TO the nfl playing against, better talent against more, consistent talent and now all of, a sudden you're going to become this red.
Zone monster that's hard for me to wrap my.
BRAIN round i could not have said that.
Better myself one of THE things i, look at especially for the first two rounds in, a draft and this Is where i'm a little bit Higher On terrence ferguson is can you consistently win versus man and? Man Coverage and terrence has shown his ability to, Do That mason taylor. Has Not so i'm, always like if you're going to be a red, zone weapon if you're going to be a third, down weapon Think You're, george Kittles Your travis
Kelsey's Your, zach ertz you've got to win versus. Man coverage and if you can't do it in college versus, lesser coverage PLAYERS like i. Don't know that is the crux of. MY argument i don't. Understand it, and again he's a good, Football, player jason what?
You got so just a guy coming in here that has just a Guy question so no. Dumb questions but this may, be dumb? All right could any of this be the COACHING at lsu and what they're asking him to do or are you, Strictly, saying okay the ball's not thrown, to him but he's not a red zone threat because you're not scheming him. That way is that? Even possible because we Looked at Jane and daniels last year and it, was like well he doesn't throw over in. The, middle well they weren't asking.
Him to so with receivers and with, tight Ends, and jerem you can Tell me. I'm wrong is you watch all. THE routes i watch every route that they run usually to see and if you're not separating on, third down like on, a seam like do you have the good nuance the lean, him out bend it? Back in are you using a? Good stem do you have a? Double
stick do you have the suddenness? And twitch like he ran a five yard out and he caught, the ball but it was like, this slow languid kind of Outcut and, i'm like A better dB.
Undercuts that that's. An interception and.
So sure it's that skill set that, you're like is it in his body to? Do it is the thing that, Gets, ME jeremy i don't know how you feel.
About that So what and this is one of those things that tight ends are. A niche there are certain coaches that are just not big on. Tight ends they'd rather come out in five wides and have that pre, snap mode especially, in college because it's so much easier to do with there and they want to. Manipulate matchups here's my problem with That With. Mason taylor how many tight ends have we seen drafted Because Of brian kelly He Made.
Michael mayer it's a.
Great point it's a, Great point.
TOMMY that i don't get to go with, down HERE and i get to deal with him down Here. IN carolina, i cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody thought he was a top, hundred player because you really nest down what he Did At. Notre dame he was a glorified fullback and that's what he's Done. In carolina Cole, Commit, A Lse, mack durham smythe that's just guys that were drafted Out Of. Notre dame by, the way none of them outside of maybe the, first two
we're athletic enough to be high end. Draft Picks But brian kelly made them. That way why couldn't he do it With With, mason TAYLOR who i think athletically is better THAN anybody i just said Not Named, cole, comet Dude Because cole commett IS.
Like a he's.
Like a it's like nicotine. FOR me I just i can't, quit him no matter HOW bad. I, SHOULD.
No, i, Agree MAN and i think that's again he's a conundrum.
TO me i don't know what to do. WITH him i like.
THE player i think he's gonna be good IN. THE nfl i just don't know what. HIS seal i think he plays ten years IN. THE nfl i just don't know what his. CEILING is i don't know if he's ever like a fifty. Catch guy but who is?
Your?
Three uh my Three Is? Elijah ROYO and.
I have set the set the clock. By him look, at.
THIS SO i I have i have very similar takes On a Royo, and taylor not because they're the. Same player i'm gonna say something that's gonna sound a. LITTLE strange i love IT and I and i mean it to the depths of. MY soul i really want to pair these two up. WITH coaches i want to pair you Up With dan Quinn And, cliff Kingsbury or sean McDermott, in Buffalo Or mike Tomlin, And Pittsburgh jamika Ryans. IN houston i want to find a Coach that i'm not worried is going to get fired a year, from NOW
because i don't just need you to have. A plan i need this to be like electing. A president i don't just need you to have a plan for this kid for the next. TWELVE months i need you have a plan for him for the next four Years because i'm going to invest capital Here that i'm not super. Comfortable with i'm not comfortable with investing a second Round Picking.
Elijah royo i'm talking.
About that why? Is that why.
One year?
Of production i've watched way too many of, these guys and he had. INJURY issues i feel like the MEDICAL is i would love to get my hands on His medical.
I've heard the, seats insane like in a.
GOOD way i want, to say what, looks like just does this kid have like? Mutant blood and like if you, prick him does he bleed red blood like.
The rest, of US because i don't think.
He.
Does no at the, same time he had like five catches in three Years at miami before.
This.
Year no AND again i think That's really i'm really glad you brought, that up because the injury history the one year of production are. Huge things but his one year of production. Was crazy we talk about having the, athletic upside the athletic ability to win one, on ones
to stretch, the seam to compete. In LINE like i will say he's not great, in line but he's big enough and he's competiti enough in line that you could survive him with like as that Move f but it's the matchups that he's able to create in, The offense like if you come out in, twelve personnel they have to match you. In nickel they have to match you. In nickel they cannot put a linebacker on him because he's.
That fast he's that nuance as a. Route runner like watching With The senior bowl live and in, living color he's twitchy in the. Short area it's all the things. You WANT but i love the Way that jeremy said that because it's like all those things, are excellent but he's been banged up and he's only had one year of really good production with a guy who's going to be a top five.
Picker, quarterback like.
Those things are things that are huge. Red, flags again, the athlete the, talent's there but can you Stay healthy kenny could. HAVE done i have no IDEA but i totally agree with what you're.
Seeing There elijah royo is one of.
Those players it's almost like The old goosebump books of you go to this page to get the ending that you want if you want to. Love him if you want to, LOVE him i can give you a handful. Of tape you Watch The wake, forest tape you'll think he's the second Coming Of. Rob, gronkowski yeah now you put On the duke tape if you want to. Hate him but there that Tape With. Manny diaz he manipulated that kid for sixty.
Four.
Minutes, yeah INTERESTING and i.
Love IT and i see those two tapes and it's such an interesting dichotomy. For me and that leads to the third round, for me the third rounds of the. Honey HILL if i WAS AN, NFL gm i would get fired in three YEARS because i would just a year over year keep trading out one to accumulate assets from about forty five to, seventy five because that's the honey hole seemingly in.
Every draft, to, ME dude i think that's one hundred. Percent right and that's something we've. Talked about JASON and i have talked about a lot with this, draft specifically is like the, top is there's so much risk associated with it because.
They all got.
A hit and there's nobody in this draft in the first round that you're like in love and. Love with, but man there are some excellent football players in that second and. Third ROUND so i think that's great analysis. By You, all right let's GET into.
I not agree with that there's not guys in the first round that you're in love in love With THAT i'm, I mean i'm saying in roses to some of.
These, dudes, NO okay I Mean i'm i'm in love.
With them don't, get it don't get, me Wrong but i'm saying it's not like the risk associated with the first. Round, pick Sometimes like i'd rather have two second round picks or two third round picks in, some years and this year feels like that a.
Little bit let's talk about. Year two, for me it's and it's. So CLOSE but I have loveland. At, TOO yeah i still.
Love.
HIM yeah i think we get.
Into this.
We get worn down with guys that we have talked about for this LONG and i look at all Of these. MICHIGAN guys i never thought we were going to be crucifying the Tape On will johnson the way that. We are, oh YEAH and i think it's hilarious that he's gonna end up falling to a good team that's borderline playoff team because everybody's worried about how straight line fast he is when he's An off he's an off, Zone corner so why do you care about how straight line fast?
He is, but whatever we get guys involved in the draft that we call Him our CANADAN, because i for, some reason cannot spell The. WORD canadian i always leave out. The eye so EVERY time i Say our canadan is his Name's, not daniel which would make it better if. He was but he has a line of it is free to, say stuff like it costs you zero money to, say Stuff And colston lovelin kind of falls into that. For ME of i hear people detegrate him for things that don't really make a lot of sense.
To me but there's no there's no real substance to. The argument so what's.
The argument the guy had no quarterback, last year he played through injuries last year and he was, Still good like it's still really. Really, good yeah he was, Their offense like he's just all they had it was him and two running backs that it was like they were playing, ro shambos which one would?
Be Worse.
Just donovan Edwards And, khalail mulligs which one of us is worse today from? Paper, scissors shoot oh?
It's me, Yeah yeah so for, Me Spoiler colston lovelin's. My one and the THING that i came back to with him specifically is you're always looking for that, chess, piece right that, chess piece that joker piece in your offense that could win versus man to man coverage that isn't going to be a liability in the, run game but ultimately can Do Your, travis Kelce Your george kittle kind.
Of stuff and of the GUYS that i Watched that i've watched over the last couple, of years Even Including, kyle pitts to, BE honest i, was like this is the GUY that i have the most confidence in him being able to, do that like some of the like the, route nuanced subtlety stuff that he was Talking that jeremy was talking About With, Mitchell, EVANS like I think colson's, got IT and i think he's a. BETTER athlete i think. HE'S bigger i think. HE'S longer i think he tracks the.
Football BETTER so i just thought in terms of, a weapon a pass, CATCHING weapon i think he's he's got that it FACTOR that i don't think anybody else quite has in this.
Draft class he's almost, six,' six yeah and he won't be twenty one until either right before right.
AFTER draft night i can't. Remember this one so still, a young kid.
Still developing kid and THE question that, i have asked and it's the tape, on my one is just SO good that i.
Can't help IT and, maybe I should because i do keep.
Asking the question i'm looking at My evol on loveland right now and there's a there's a line at the top of the page that's just it's a reminder for ME of when i. Watched the tape this was the thing that kept rattling around. In my Brain and on, loveland's it says how good would he Have Been?
With, Drew aller.
Dude it's a it's a great it's it is THE question AND i and, i for, ME was like, i don't know he's JUST got.
That nfl thing so let's talk.
About your one, no spoilers here You got some jason.
More, we, go yeah well before we get, INTO the one i kind of wanted to set This Up because colson loveland, Was your. One jeremy's two jeremy's one is who we're about. To talk about hero. Is YOUR two so i want you to start and tell me why is your number two and not, your number One and then jeremy's going to tell you.
Why, you're wrong, Okay, Ready, fight okay ready. Here we go so just to, be perfectly clear both these, players, Are excellent right they're.
Excellent football Players loveland and. Warren are excellent SO the thing i, Came to dude warren's film is a.
Blast to watch it's a. Blast to WATCH.
Like he i said This before and i'm gonna get killed, for It again but i'm gonna.
Say it again he reminds me a little bit Like Of like.
Ron gronkowski light he's just bigger and stronger and better than the people. He's playing against his ability to, win contested catches his ability to compete in line in, the run game to be, the wildcat quarterback all that stuff is. There for him he plays with, the right. Mentality THE physicality like i Really. Really like warren but THE thing that i kept, coming back to Is he so coulson
is a f with plus? Pass game upside Warren is a why with plus, pass game upside which means he's a little, bit less athletic a, little BIT twitchy and i think a little bit less likely because of those athletic deficiencies to be featured in a pass game that's going to make him a top ten player at the POSITION. In the nfl it's it's. A subtle distinction it's a is he still going to be?
An?
Excellent player absolutely but are you going to be comfortable with lining him up all over the formation to? Create those, matchups You know like jeremy talked about this with some of, The other guys like coaching is going to be really. Important to that like if He Goes to new england, Ten, years ago yeah he's going, To be excellent but there's a lot of teams that don't know how to, use that Position that blocking why, TO that level i think you can create a bunch of good. Matchups with them
not great, short area, quickness that's fine he wins. With his size can you continue to do that? THE next level i tend to think that guys who have high contested catch rates in college don't translate WELL. To the nfl and that's my only concern. WITH his game.
I cannot disagree with anything, you just said SO you said i had to fight this out of why. He was, wrong all right here's where the problem. That comes in this is almost like arguing about which one of my, children IS cuter because i think they're. Both REALLY cute and i want to show you. ALL the pictures i like one slightly better, than The other and i'll tell you.
WHY it's fit I Know where. TYLER warren's. GOING i know i Don't know that i've ever been as confident of a player in the top ten and where they're going TO go that I Am. With tyler warren where he's Going to the, Jets at seven he's going To Be justin. FIELDS cole comet. I know exactly i. SEE the path i watched the. FREE agency dollars i. GOT it all I Feel like john nash in a beautiful.
Mind right now the numbers are. SPEAKING to ME i got.
I see it i can't Figure Out where, colston Loveland goes and i'll TELL you where i think it's.
Going to be it's Going, To. Be indianapolis indy that.
Would be terrible that'd be. TERRIBLE for him.
I hate it so you have two quarterbacks who are the best thing they do. Is run awesome that's that is really conducive for a pass catcher got.
In, at fourteen dude if He, goes to Indy. That'd, be yeah again this is where the draft is. Such a crapshoot like let's say you flip those And You say colson loveland Goes to the Jets and then Warren. Goes, TO indianapolis like i feel the same way because, the quarterback situation the way they're using the. Offense Isn't great what I'd really like coulson and go is to go in a little bit of a slide and either Go
to the commanders that won't happen or Go To. THE denver Broncos I Think peyton sean payton really would understand how to use that skill set at a high level and you get a really nice productive year from. Both OF them but i think that's a Great. Point by, jeremy this summer seekek has your ticket to the best live CONCERTS in The Dmv. At Northwest stadium seek geek makes it easy to catch world conquering tours and high wattage performances from your favorite artists. All summer long seekek
has the best seat your seat for. An Unforgettable Summer from rock royalty TO rap SUPERSTARS r and, b to country find it All, on sea geek the official primary Taking Partner Of Northwest state summer concerts season officially Starts. With sea, geek, all right now let's get into what everyone's. BEEN waiting for i don't know if everyone's. BEEN waiting for i think tight ends are way more exciting than.
Quarterbacks This, year but jeremy let's do a, really high level like what you're looking for, in a quarterback, just high level kind of a couple bullet points and we'll get INTO top five.
I feel, like AND now look i have over the. LAST few years I can't say i have been the most. Accurate with quarterbacks i'll just say the list of guys that have been more accurate than me is, very very short and you could probably put it.
ALL to time.
I love it I Did have jaydon daniels at, one LAST year and i, Can, prove.
That yeah that IS that's, why i mean you said that on, our last show and we're here, for it man, Because we agree.
SO go ahead i feel like quarterback is the one position where dudes start doing dude.
Things and lie explain TO you what i. MEAN by that.
A single guy will meete a pretty girl in a bar and she could have a severed head, in her trunk and if, SHE'S cute enough i.
Can fix her, Like it's, fine, I'm GOOD yep but i still have a.
Lot, Of questions why like there are so many, women out there why do you have to have the axe murderer with a head in the back? Of a buick and that's KIND of how i fall in on at least one of the high end quarterbacks.
In this class you Ask me what, I'm looking for just do the.
Basics so well you should not have huge categorical flaws. In Your game cam ward does, not have. Big, SCREAMING flaws yeah i think he's limited.
SURE in that i.
DON'T know.
THAT i don't i think, he's a good. NOT great athlete i think he has a good. NOT great arm i think he's he could really spin it when. He's in rhythm i'm fine with. All of that that's a. First round, quarterback to me there's not another one of those. In this class there's just not there's not a first. Round talent, here and. LOOK my two i, love my. Two my two. I'm doing. THIS say anything i got
the boombox. Outside the window just, come, love ME bro because i really wanted you to go to like one of eight teams and it's gonna be.
None Of them but.
I'm be sad so let's get, into IT then BECAUSE i can't i. Really can't wait, And this year i'm to, BE perfectly candid i have not watched as MUCH quarterback as i NORMALLY watch because i don't care that. Much This year so i'm gonna give you my super. High level takes jason has watched more quarterback than. Me this year so we're going to. Get ON this but i think. Let's get going you got, Something, TO say.
Yeah i think the best way to do this is to do like just say what, quarterbacks you like and like just say, You're, top five jeremy and then like whichever, one, you're like oh let's talk. About this guy let's just. Talk, about him okay like a, LITTLE less structured i guess than the ends Because here in washington we don't, care that much so let's just hit.
The hot Topics so auguess, I'll, go first jeremy and then you can Tell me. If i'm wrong so my Top five is, milroe, as?
Five right? Shuck oh shuck Oh, From uh?
Waitrose, you're?
Five yeah dude who else? Would? You, are yeah like then give, me, a, second here guy give. Me a, second, Come on shuck.
I'm, Gonna, go shador dart and Then obviously cam ward at One is my those are, my five there and then now, you, tell.
Me wait, we, agree, one, ONE three. Four i have, Ward is one dart, Is my two chadur, Is, My three tower shuck?
Is, my, four?
Okay okay perfect then? Who's?
Your?
Five?
QUEEN yours dude. I like.
It let's talk let's talk ABOUT him because i actually like. Him a lot so let's talk. ABOUT that one. I like that let's start THERE because actually. I totally forgot i did. An evaluation him milroe was. A lazy one i'm GOING to say i was Being. Lazy with milroe i'm backing out. On that now.
So My Great.
On jalen milroe if it could, HAVE been negative i would have made it, a.
Negative dude it's a tough, film to.
WATCH no doubt i THINK the thing i SETTLED in on i think it was a little bit more predictive with THIS on who i LIKE where that i think the order they. Will actually Go, AND with milroe i, SEE the athlete i see. THE arm, talent i, THINK like you i think fit is going to. Be really important like can he go to, a spot, like For example like philly and be the backup there for three years and grow and develop in an offense with a really, Good Offensive line LIKE that's where i see him going
because the. Talent IS there but i think the like the thing you said at the, beginning OF this which i think is the most important thing with a quarterback is can they do?
The?
Easy stuff.
Well he does milroe does the high, level stuff well but the easy stuff.
Is not good is he.
Like an old O'dule's Version? Of, Anthony richardson yes like he's just he's, just, very athletic right he's, an elite runner but he's, not as big, not as fast and. HE'S not accurate i.
Want to get jeremy', stut on this, But For me anthony richardson was a unicorn, ATHLETE unicorn terms i.
Would pay, That, that's why Yes It's.
Not, ANTHONY richardson yeah.
I don't know i kind of feel like that's. A good comparison what Do You Think jeremy.
Jalen milroe Does look like anthony richards and if he was about eighteen beers deep. On his film so the background, On my computer i'm a, Reasonably TECHY guy so i made a gift of the Opening Interception of Jalen, milroe against vanderbilt which is legitimately The worst throw.
I've ever seen.
Not a great thing if you if you put that with a bunch of, EIGHT year olds i would be yelling at, the kid's dad going what? Is he doing and you Did. That at alabama that's the background on my computer of it just spins constantly of do Not Fall for jalen milroe.
Under any circumstance.
Now, you say that but what if he falls into like a very late round and, like You're saying like philly takes him or, Someone like, That, it's like okay it's worth a shot. With this guy you're not paying im any what's the?
High Side there and i'm just gonna use the example that you, Gave All right So Philadelphia, had kenny pickett who they've now traded for a Draft. Pick, to cleveland Yes they have TANNER McKee that i believe. IN a Lot i think tanner McKee will be a starting quarterback in this league before it's all.
SAID and.
Done i Agree so now i'm Gonna take mill row as like a developmental three that's gonna get five percent of snaps, outside OF camp and i don't think he's ever going to. DEVELOP that way i think he will be, A DECENT runner like i can run the. Veer with Him So if lou holtz started OACH in the nfl Would have a.
I'd be giddy but that's.
ALL he is i think that's THE thing is i think so he's on the list because the, talent for me that's why he's on the list is. The TALENTS there But i think i've broke my own. Rule WITH him Is i think jeremy brings up, a great point is is it possible for him to get where he needs to be SERVICEABLE at the nfl level and the
processing is. A little slow, like the athlete the arm, talent's all there but it's that's the thing with quarterback is you're not going to get a lot of, Opportunity to develop like we just talked, about tight ends like you'll have a couple of years to, figure it, out you know to kind of like set in develop the find a, role for you even if, it's not great even if the coaching staff, on the level like if you're drafted in the, first three rounds they'll give you
three years to. Figure it out, but the quarterback it's not. Really like that, and SO again like i don't know if he, Ever gets there like watching him at times like just with reads and, seeing the. Field it's painful but he is a special talent in terms of. Throwing the football he's a special talent in. Terms of running so maybe you bet on those traits and figure out let's talk. About your five let's. Go quinin yours what are?
You seeing?
Him the man the good, is really good the bad, is really bad but he can. Absolutely spin it AND the thing i come back to with yours is he's kind of In That. Like cole, COMET for me i just, can't quit you no MATTER how bad, i want TO because when i watch just, the raw tools the raw talent take take everything out.
Put it all.
In a vacuum how many players in college football can spin it better Than quin yours and. It's, not many yeah it's. A great point pressure grade. Is not good you put pressure on him and. Bad things happen but when it's. All clean IT here's what. I don't understand i don't understand how somebody can tell me that They Love shed or sanders And They hate quinn yours when they're literally.
The same guy it's.
A good point it's it's a.
Really good point like it is funny HOW people get i don't know bias is, the right word but they kind of get in these like rhythms WHERE it's like i don't like these things, about this player but this other player does exactly the same thing and you don't and you're.
OKAY with. Him i don't i've always that's. ALWAYS baffled me i think.
When we get into.
Very lazy comps one of the things that has always irked me to no, end is that, especially with quarterbacks we only compare quarterbacks to other quarterbacks that.
Look, like them yeah.
That's Not Accurate quin you Weres And shed or sanders do not look anything alike until you watch them on, tape, and go huh every, deficiency you have. You have right, the, DIFFERENCE is well i think one.
Of them is.
One of them has a medical that scares me to death with YOU wors because i feel like he gets hurt about. Every, third game yeah and that's it's hard for me to get on board with that because you're getting, Hurt in college you're gonna get hurt in.
THE pros too i don't know if you didn't, DRINK enough milk, i don't know if you.
DID nature wheaties, i don't know if you didn't Listen to hul cogan when he was telling you that when, WE were kids. I don't know but there's something about that kid that there's a lot of there's a lot of brittle. To queen youwers that's really the only difference between shadu or and, Yours FOR me.
So i wanted to bring this up real. Quick with yours THE one thing i DID get when i was watching him a little bit is. The anticipatory throws and again they're not a big feature. Of that offense he doesn't do, it a lot which makes me. A little bit THAT'S something that i look for In quarterbacks like jeremy talked about the things. HE'S looking for i look. FOR anticipatory throws i look for. REQUISITE arm talent i look for kind of an. Innate playmaking ability whatever That
gen sa qua. That magic is but the anticipatory throws for. Me are huge and again again it's not a huge Feature of. The TEXAS offense but i didn't see it to the SAME.
Level that i Saw. It with shador what would you SAY to that.
I don't love I.
DON'T love sarkasian i love him as, a COLLEGE coach and I think sometimes i say THINGS and people i don't necessarily. Explain IT appropriately if i had a kid that was a five star, Blue Chip prospect steve sarkeysan would be on the very short list OF guys that i would want. Coaching him up, that being said he does not have a great track record OF coaching. Up, nfl quarterbacks yeah and he's, had some talent and it just kind of feels like the. Talent Never develops And
that's where i'm. AT with, viewers i mean in terms of as a, high school prospect this was one of the highest rated prospects, we've ever seen and He goes to texas after That Year, at ohio state and it's felt like. HE never developed i also don't understand why guys commit to programs where they're the fifth quarterback in line like He Did.
AT ohio state i don't know.
Why you think that's, Going To work but i've watched it not, work ENOUGH times and i think youwers falls into that of you had that weird kind of Forgotten You're. At ohio state he dropped out. Of school early this was one of the first when the transfer portal really. Became a thing this was one of the first. Prizes of it He goes to texas and it just never it always felt kind of, clunky to me.
And it never felt he was the best in.
His Biggest games, that georgia tape if you can Watch him against georgia the second TIME in the sec title game and not, just absolutely good THAT kid's. An nfl quarterback it was about as good of A tape as i saw from a quarterback. This, Entire process SURE but then i went and went And Watched the OHIO state, and i realized if you had even been a fraction of what You, were against georgia you Would Have.
Beaten ohio state.
The inconsistency with him is ALSO something that i had a. HARD time with i, don't get IT like, when i, understand like why like you're hurt or there's a, lot of pressure or your offensive lines banged up you can't, run the football or the receiver's hurt or, Whatever IT is like i understand THE inconsistency when i don't understand when it's not, clear to me like why one game you look like the second coming of, Whoever You, want joe montana and this next game you look like you
shouldn't BE. In the nfl that always makes me a little bit. Nervous as well.
Yours is the definition of the.
Hot, crazy scale, Yeah all right So.
Four is shuck is? This Your?
Name, Tyler Shuck yes Tyler. SHUCK from louisville i, Really, LIKE him like i really like. Him a lot like he, spins the, ball he's fast you can run some quarterback run. Stuff with, him HE'S big like i think you see the anticipatory, throws on tape like he elevated That, offense said louisville like did a lot of. Really good things but he is old and he is. Hurt a lot how do you.
Feel ABOUT him so i said something the LAST time, THAT i was i was on, with YOU guys and i DON'T know IF i just.
I don't know i DON'T know if i was. DRINKING that day I don't. Think i was so he does have three, season ending injuries but.
They.
Weren't ligament issues it was two collar bones and. A broken fibula i don't worry about that as much long. Term THE bone and i DON'T know if i just put that in, MY note. WRONG i don't i went back and listen to, that and WENT why did I say that? That's not true.
He doesn't have the he doesn't have weak knees or.
ANYTHING like that i think He may have it's. Possible his bone his bones are a little bit brittle, because collar bone two collar. Bones is weird that's not a normal thing to see from a kid that's twenty.
Five years old.
That tends to happen, to older players because as, time goes on your bones. Become More Brittle and aaron rodgers he'd had no issue until he was, like thirty five thirty, six, years old sure and then he had two of them, in five years one of Them, with the jets one of them with The. With the packers that is. Unsettling to me but in a QUARTERBACK class that, i believe
in this little seeing the, Raw in. HIM i'm, good i mean and, it wasn't he but he all of a sudden in his age, twenty five season he was better than everybody.
On the field those guys scare?
Me to?
Death can he pickett WAS never an nfl quarterback until he was two or three years older than. Everybody's, PLAYING against sure i run away from those guys. Like active grenades, IN no way i won't take them in the. First five rounds the bust rates like. Ninety five percent schuck was good even when. He was younger he just. Kept, getting hurt.
Jeremy let me Ask You. ABOUT jackson dart i think this is the next one. On our list We're gonna Save shugar and kim because they're the top two across. Most NATIONAL media but i want to ask you about him because you're Very high On. Dart, from mississippi.
Yes he's my number two.
In this class he is the one quarterback in this class that doesn't wilt like day old flowers when the pressure.
Gets TURNED up and.
I get it everybody, wants, to say well he was in a pick and Pop Offense at old miss and he didn't really even have to, think about anything and look at how good. The, receivers were, okay all right you DO realize that i can say everything you just Said about, schdor sanders.
Too and probably even in terms, OF receiver talent i, think they're like all four of his receivers are getting, drafted, this year right, probably you think.
And we'll be priority. Undrafted, free agents.
Yeah and then one of The Dudes from old, misses getting? DRAFTED right? AM i am i off on That.
You'll get Watkins, you'll get Wells You'll, get trey.
Harris all those guys. THAT get Drafted I think.
Trey harris will Go.
Into twin wells he ran so poorly that he may, not get Drafted and then watkins, ran really well which probably GETS him into, i don't know.
Middle, of SIX yeah but I guess what I'M saying, is i Felt After watching old miss And after, watching colorad know the Receiver TALENT at colorado i, thought was, BETTER you know i thought, It WAS better so i think.
IT was equivalent i can't say it was better because they Didn't Have, A trey Harris I, mean TRAVIS hunter but i also look AT, In the sec i'm playing a much higher. LEVEL of defense i put Nothing Into the big TWELVE solely because i think with ALL the prospects, I have GRATED i think i have like eight Guys from the big twelve that are, draftable defensive players and one Of Them, is travis hunter who is everybody as good a receiver as he.
IS a corner i don't put a lot of.
Stock, IN that yeah i just don't understand why the pick and Pop thing with dart is such. A big deal but then people will just kind of admit That, with with shduur Which Is, with sean lewis that's exactly what he was doing the.
Exact, SAME offense.
Yeah i don't get that because The tape, on DART'S better and i don't think it's.
All that close it's.
A great point i think you see more throws. DOWN the field i think When you watch shador it's there are throws, down the. Field no doubt but the offense Is Much more what i'm going to say Is like, a texas offense, much more horizontal like, lots of screens lots, of UNDERNEATH stuff and i think he does a great job, of reading short does a great job of reading. That STUFF out but i do think you see a little bit more dynamism Is the word i'm.
Gonna Use with jackson dart in terms of pushing the football.
Down the field that ball kind of comes off his hand with some more RPMs like the, far hash comeback all that kind of stuff you'll SEE at.
THE nfl level i just think there's.
More volume there it's kind of one of THE reasons THAT i like jj McCarthy last year a LITTLE bit is i felt like he could do MORE of, the NFL stuff and I Feel like jackson, dart in college even though the offense is, a good offense it's, a simpler offense has a little bit more, of that stuff of the physical. Stuff on tape.
So Let's move To. Schaduran Cam ward and i'm going to start this One off because i'm, just a guy, not the expert and most just the guys out there and the casual fan like me that's sitting around sees these guys as one two And They see shdura sanders, and they're like, that's, A guy right SO what do i. SEE from, Him i mean mike. COMP for him i told. You this once logan is Like he's the. Batman to me he, has no superpower but he has A lot, of,
He's rich right like he's. Rich with Talent he's got dion. Helping him Out He's got travis, hunter with him and he's good, at almost everything but no superpower and can get the crap beat. Out of him if, He's not careful bane can. Break his back so that's KIND of how. I see him if he goes to. A Good situation like i'm, thinking to myself, maybe this guy, He's got tools he's got, the tool belt he's got, the.
Bat belt he's.
Got the batmobile like he's got some. Of these, things this ATHLETICISM and like i think that's what people kind of bet on with him and what. They look at but he does take a lot of hits and a lot of sacks and holds onto the ball and not all of that is. The, line's fault JEREMY? Why am i? This is why i'm.
Just a guy.
You're an expert Tell me if i'm seeing this Right or, if i'm wrong or let me let me. Know. Your feedback here.
I'm more angry that you just took A. SHOT at batman a shadow of it out MY favorite super I have. A batman Tattoo. I love batman batman doesn't. Have a, superpower He's loaded and I'm Convinced, that elon musk when he gets tired of messa, with the government he's gonna Become. Real life batman you just go throw on the, SUIT and go, I got money, let's do this. Make it, Happen UH shoulder So i have there are there are a FEW stats that i use with quarterbacks that are.
Almost like disqualifiers and the first one is gonna sound REALLY wonky when. I Say it shador sanders turnover worthy play rate was one. Point three percent.
That's a.
Disqualifier for me why because it means you. Take, no shots ever it's THE same problem I Had. With caleb williams you are safe to a point of almost completely hamstringing yourself because you're so worried.
ABOUT throwing interceptions i watch him on tape and there's a.
Lot of screens there's a lot, of manufactured touches there's a lot of, dink and dunk there's a lot of THE best tape i Ever saw shedor standers was when he was able to stay in the pocket for two and. A half seconds that doesn't HAPPEN. In the nfl you're gonna. Get heated up and when he, gets heated up he turns into a. Non draftable, quarterback to me he starts turning his back, to the line which for Me is the that is like. The unforgivable sin when you start doing.
That bailout, thing and look there's some quarterbacks that, Are Athletic enough lamar jackson can get. By With it Shadoor Sanders. At lamar jackson so when you, start doing that that's a complete breakdown of, all things mechanic because now you're gonna have to spin back, to the line get back into your progression having completely taken eyes.
Off of it that would be the.
Equivalent of telling this kid that you were going to play pin the tail, on the donkey putting the, mask on him, spinning him around and then asking him to hit a receiver. In a second. It doesn't work it's not gonna. Work For him shadoor sanders is the best seven On seven quarterback. I've ever seen like if we played flag FOOTBALL, In the nfl he's the number one, picking this draft and. It's not close the problem is
that we don't and somebody's. Gonna overdraft him i'm ninety nine point ninety nine percent sure it's a team.
In your division i've never been as.
Confident of anything I've, never had chador Not to the giants in any mock.
Draft.
I'VE done no i think they need a. Quarterback for sure.
His actions lend to somebody, has told him. You're not falling did you see him at the at the at his actual, Availability.
Media wise.
Yeah it's crazy.
Was that off putting to you?
A little, bit i mean, because you know get these guys to, get up there and they treat it, like an interview and, they're very professional and they're, very locked in and, they're VERY accommodating and i just felt like he was there kind, of UNAPOLOGETICALLY him. Which i Appreciate but, also i'm like is the fact you're, turning down teams you're kind of being brashed to teams because you think you're not going to get a draft by them is
an interesting? Move by, him so again, LIKE off putting, i don't know a, little theatrical maybe but it, was an interesting interesting, choice, AND someone definitely i would agree kind of either gave him really good advice or gave him. Some POOR advice and i guess we'll find out here in a.
COUPLE of weeks i will tell You something About shador that i've yet to hear anybody in national media. Say OUT loud and i went back and. CHECKED the uh i checked the schedule to make SURE that what i was. Saying was right he had two receivers that were doing their media availability while he was Walking Around with joseina anderson doing the, look at me, look at me, look
at me. Look at Me interesting if, I'M your receiver i don't love the fact that my quarterback is making everything About him and i've got two people standing in.
Front, OF me, YEAH i mean i don't love that these are supposed to.
Be.
Your guys yeah the one thing that got me was, when they, were you Know Him and cam warred were having that throwing session and it's all. Over the Internet, It's, ON instagram twitter i think it's on, YouTube as well and, And You know cam, warred's, gonna say, oh you don't you're kind of A check down Charlie and he the first Thing should or sanders, said, IS like well i didn't have. The offensive line like those. TYPES of comments
i know. THEY'RE in jest i know he's, a young guy but they make me just a little bit concerned that like when, it gets hot like when it gets a, little bit difficult which it WILL, In the nfl like what's your reaction? Going to be and again like this is part. Of THE process and i don't think we're not trying to, kill the kid like he's just what
is he twenty? One years old but those are things that definitely come to the forefront of mind with him that are, a little concerning and especially in a Big Market, like new york like they're not going to go easy, on you there and you're.
GOING to think i LAUGH when, people i Laugh especially when, shador said, it but this well he didn't have. The offensive line you also realized that he didn't go up against the. Pass, rushers either sure there are no big twelve pass rushers. In this class like the best one you're going To see IS, baddie from. Byu who's good and if you go back and WATCH those two Byu tapes where, Colorado played them chador.
Wasn't, particularly good.
Yeah did you ever notice that in every tape that you actually put a legit pass, rusher out there and everybody, wants, to say oh it's because of.
The offensive line maybe it's because he. Can't, handle pressure.
Yeah and that's.
A huge deal and that's something we talked about with last year's quarterbacks. Quite a bit and it is a, it's a factor and it's something. That's really significant and there's no magic bullet when it comes. To quarterback evaluation there's no like this data point, Leads to this but that is one of those ones that has a little bit less noise. Associated with it and if you have a bad pressure, rate in college usually you struggle WITH.
In the nfl and and for a guy that has is, somewhat athletically, limited You Know, because jane daniels he his pressure. Is pressure rate when, he took pressure his completion. Percentage went down it was everyone was talking about. That LAST year But I think jane daniels' athleticism allows him. TO overcome that i don't think you see the Same.
Thing, with, shador yeah no it's it's it's almost shocking how. Unathletic, he is.
Well My, Apologies, to batman yeah you, should, be apology yes and, Apologies. To you jeremy so let's move On The. Cam ward logan you. CAN start here i will say that like THE first time i was brought On the cam Ward Was Through. Saint. ANA moss sure i was sitting with him and we Were watching The miami, in florida game and he does this kid is going. To be special you. Just watch him he's to be something special. In the league he meant not just at college and
he had a. Pretty good season he's most. People's Number, one now logan he's, your number one and talk to.
Me, ABOUT him, YEAH i mean i just think there's a maturity, to HIS game. WHICH i, appreciate i, think you know he's. An older player he's kicked around to a, Couple different programs he's learned. SOME different offenses i think. THAT shows up i think there's a composure to him. IN the pocket i think there's a natural playmaking. ABILITY to him i think he's, aggressive at points almost. TO a fault i think he spins the football at. A
high level i think he handles. Pressure, relatively WELL again, LIKE i think i Think the way jerrymy characterized it, is he's good not great in a, lot of categories and the thing that makes me feel really good about it is he does have this kind, of playmaking moxie just like when it's time to make when it's, when it's, time you know it's it's it's we're getting up. Pressed against it he just has an ability to make plays
and kind of be in the moment. And BE composed and i think back to my TIME, in the nfl and the best quarterbacks played with were guys that had that kind of ice in their veins. At all times the moment was never too. Big FROM him and i see, That with him and So that's why i'm SO confident is i think he's got. A good arm i think he's got a good. Composure ABOUT him and i think he's got a great knack for making plays when he's got.
To make him and there's. SOMETHING to that.
I agree with everything.
You just said the thing that scares Me about cam ward is that he, doesn't Take, singles will.
Dude great, point great, Point. Great point jude.
He really likes to hit the home run one d percent and he's. GOOD at, it i mean this is the reason we don't let children play with fireworks is that they find and thinks they can blow, up and hey it's such.
Fun to watch. Don't do that.
And he has a quality of that of you can tell he played at a lower. LEVEL of competition i think he did with with all three of his stops to be really. On Incarnate Word obviously, Washington state, Obviously hey LOOK i'm. An acc guy WE covered the acc. Hands ON here the acc is not good, at this point Especially Not with. Florida state down and you just kind of look through the Games that cam ward had. This Past year the florida. TAPE was intriguing i didn't love The. Tape against louisville.
It was fine.
But wasn't great there's just A lot Of Syracuse in Iowa State and wake forest and col Those are not those are NOT tapes that i. Can really use AND then when I nested and i'm just, going to level he's still the SAME guy that i would have had as the fifth quarterback in. Last year's class that's hard for me to unsee because he came into the twenty twenty Four class originally withdrew wanted To Go, to ohio state wanted To Go, to florida state and then Finally.
Settle on miami he would have been behind the three, Highest, End, Guys. Jaden drake caleb he would have Also Been. Behind michael, pennox for.
Me is that?
The worst thing because that was, a Historic, class right like so if you throw, that class out how MUCH this guy i think? IT will, BE i Mean? I, do drakes?
Okay ALL right and i argued this so much LAST year and i didn't know, you Guys then so i'll do it in the. Vacuum, RIGHT now sure i THINK there's one a plus quarterback, in That. CLASS as jake i think there was one eight quarterback, in that class And. THAT was drake i think everybody else is a. COMPLETE toss, up I?
THOUGHT what, drake i, Thought? You, said jayden no what are? We? Talking, About no JAYDEN was.
My A plus The, a was drake and then everybody else is a.
Complete, toss up Okay, that was okay dodged, The, Bullet THERE no but i THINK that THAT'S i think i agree with, that SENTIMENT too because i think There's Holes in. MICHAEL pennock's game i think there's more holes in his name escapes me at the moment he Plays For. THE chicago bears i. Can't Remember, that caleb. WILLIAMS thank you i think there are a lot of holes. In, his GAME YEAH but i i, like those players YOU know?
What I mean AND i think I like CAM warden and i do think like given his the adversity that he's faced, in his career how long he's, been in college gives me a lot of Confidence, seeing Bo Nick seeing jayden daniels last year and how successful they were and how experienced they are navigate some. OF that stuff i go Back to, what, jeremy said though you got to take a single sometimes.
And it's boring he's not.
Great at it and that's something where you Look, at bon nix he's great.
At taking Singles Look, at jayden daniels great. At.
Taking singles right the issue, with you know some of the other quarterbacks we just talked about is they couldn't. Take SINGLES well and i think it's going to affect them negatively for a long time until they. FIGURE it out i think they can. Figure IT out but i think that's something With ward that i'm a little.
Bit worried about list you have to be able.
To Do That see caleb williams is the exact opposite, Side Of that caleb williams. Only takes singles He's Like the trot. Nixon of quarterbacks you never hit. Into the gap it's just little dribblers. Past THE shortstop why i, DIDN'T like him i still, don't LIKE him as i did take great Joy And Going nana nanda Boo boo at chicago. Fans all year they called.
Me a moron my, last question then, for quarterbacks specifically does coaching and your situation matter the? Most with them because you look at Like, jayde and daniels it's not taking anything. Away from him really, good coaching staff. Really good situation same Thing, With BO nix like i kind OF feel like jj McCarthy may have a good year just because of the situation. That he's in does that how much does that play into success IMMEDIATELY in the
nfl versus? The prospect evaluation how much time you think THEY may TAKE. J.
Spot j j McCarty is gonna have a great ye because hes gonna hold A Clipboard. For aaron rodgers it's hard not to have. A good year did? You, drop it no that's. A great year. Coaching, definitely matters look it's this is a little bit of, of A rant so i'll try to consume it down. TO thirty seconds i get Railed On for lamar jackson A lot because
i did not see HIM as. An nfl quarterback now he's won a couple of MVPs where people really the thing that you forget Is That, the baltimore ravens which are one of the best drafting teams, in this league they committed every Available Resource to lamar jackson from the minute he walked into that building, until right now and. It's never stopped they have been fully. Committed to him where teams fall short with quarterbacks is that you don't
FULLY invest the jj McCarthy's of the world need. Every single. Snap all right This Flirtation with aaron, rodgers is dumb but it's not going to lead you where you, want it to and it's taking precious snaps.
Away from McCarthy if you.
Fully lock In If the tennessee titans fully lock In on cam ward is their guy and every decision they make for the next three years is making. HIM their guy I think cam ward can be a top ten to twelve quarterback.
IN the league i think.
Should do her if you do, THE same thing i think can be a, top Twenty guy And I'll say jackson dork can be a. TOP fifteen guy.
I think that's a really nice way. OF putting it i think if the team puts a, LOT of resources i think the other important thing just to note is you got to have the right.
Kind of guy See know.
What I'M saying so i think if You look at indianapolis and what they've Done With, an anthony richardson they've given, him, A lot right they've, Supported him well they've brought an offensive coordinator who can speak to. His skill set he has not supported them with. His work ethic the thing that gives me Confidence that cam ward given the, right coaching situation he's going to work at it right because
he had to work at it Same Thing. With jane daniel so if you support the quarterback and they've got the right work ethic and they've, GOT the talent i think that's where you get that kind. Of magic elixir, BUT you know i think that's going to do it. For, the show right, we're all done and.
Just so, our fans know we're recording this. A little early by the time, it Comes Out maybe aaron rodgers has signed So for but the POINT is that i really. LOVE this discussion i really love when You come ON Jeremy The. Espn Draft, nerd jeremy green tell us where we can. Find Your Stuff the sports oocracy. Is my show it's, just like democracy. But with sports you can find that on all.
The social MEDIA'S I'm At espn Draft nerd on twitter and my latest four round mock Draft for the commanders.
IS dropping Tonight i think i'm. Dropping it, tonight if not what's?
The date though like the date? Is the Date today, is march Seventeenth So. This, patrick's day yes this show is going to come out a, little bit later. Probably. Next week right so if if you're listening to this now And You're a, washington commanders fan make sure you go Back and find jeremy's for four round mock Draft For. The, washington commanders jeremy thanks so much. FOR joining us i learned so MUCH every time i. Talk to you, you're
a blast, love your comparisons. Love your analysis we'll have to have you out again one more time before the.
Draft comes around the number is.
Always the same i'm a pretty easy you GOTTA fun and i enjoy it with you.
Guys as well thank, You. So much jamie that is it absolutely m m hmmm mm hmm