MEGA Top 50 Big Board Breakdown | Ticket to the Draft Podcast | Washington Commanders

In today's episode of Take It to the Draft Podcast, we got Russell Wilson, Justin Field, Sam Howel, to Seattle, all these quarterbacks, all these picks moving around the NFL.

What does it mean for the Commanders? Stay tuned to find out.

And we got big boards, Top fifty, Zach Selby, Fretzmoot, just the Guy Jason, and I give you our top fifty players and how these top fifty players.

Fall in this trap. Make sure you check that out. It all starts right out.

Welcome to the Ticket of the Draft podcast, presented by Seek, the official primary taking partner of the Washington Commanders. I'm Logan Paulson here with the eclectic group of talent evaluators, Fred Smoot, Zach Selby, and Jess the guy Jason, who I think we're gonna start calling him? What'd you call it mel Kuiper last week?

No, No, Jason Guiper, Jason.

I think we're just a combine Jason Paulson, Yeah, yeah, coming in.

He came back a different guy.

So I got in here at nine when we're all supposed to get here on time today, unlike the rest of you guys, and Jason.

Was in here grinding tape at I.

Got in a little early because I was looking at my list that we're gonna do. We're gonna do the top fifty on our personal big boards today and I was looking at it and I was like, is this right? So I just started pulling up film to see, Like.

That's what telling evaluators do, all right, That's what you do anytime you have a feeling that something ain't right, you go back to the feed.

Everything written in pencil until definitely exactly right.

Yeah, everything is written in pencil. So as Jason said, we're gonna do our we each did a big board today. Yep, We're gonna go through those in a little bit. But first we cannot escape the quarterback talk. Dunt dunt, duh. It's a little bit different quarterback talk today though, right, because we got trades. We got Russell Wilson and Justin Fields to the Steelers, obviously Sam Howell to the Seahawks.

You yeah, and just kind of say you think it's a good move that they did.

I think it's a great move. Now they don't have to trade up to get a quarterback. It's set of them at quarterback. They got two options. They got the veteran who won the Super Bowl already, who's trying to rebuild his career. They got the youngster who's trying to find himself that could be your future. Like I think in that quarterback room, they're set, and Russell might not start after.

Week ten if things go downhill.

But I think with Justin Fields, what they have there is a guy that you could easily pick up his fifth year option. He brings a lot to that offense. You got pickings on the outside, you got Washington and Title, you got guys fire tight, you have guys that you got a running game to protect him. I think Justin Field has been dealt the worst hand of any quarterback in his draft.

He went to Chicago Bears coach got fired, and he.

Had to learn the whole new office and now even had to learn another new offense. I'm glad with this new offense he gets to sit behind rush though and problem solved.

While he figures out how to play in his offense.

No, I think it's that if there's anything such as eatier and having it too, it's having Russell Wilson and Justin Fields because one Russe Wilson.

Is not getting paid that much.

So you can exercise Justin Fields fifth your opting if you really really want to and not have to have to go into a whole lot of cap space issues, and you can.

You can let him learn.

But also Justin Fields is a highly talented athlete. You can possibly even resign in a couple of years if you're really to want to, if you really think he's got the opportunity in the ability to do so. Now with Russ, like there's he's obviously not Seattle Russ anymore. Like that's very clearly, yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's no longer he's not worth cooking what he needs to be cooking anymore.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, and I think he can win you some games, he can keep them competitive while also letting justin Field, sit back, and learn, because I still think he can do a lot of that early in his career because he's still got a lot of the things he can grow and develop in his in his skill set.

And think about this Pittsburgh Cuffs playoff team with a quarterback that didn't throw ten touchs down, Like, so when you bring in Russell and you bring in Justin Fields, I think that makes you more dangerous at the quarterback position. And don't forget this is a team that puts all their money on the defensive side of the ball, So don't forget between the running game and the defense, which you have a quarterback starts we'll be protecting.

Yeah, it's interesting though, Like you know, I think about it from a team building perspective, and is there like what's the value for Fields for the six round pick, especially because you do have to give him the franchise you do have to give him if your option right. And I do think like one of the reasons you draft a guy is because you kind of reset that

A decision about his fifth year option.

You're really just getting a rental for this one year of cost control Justin Fields, and then you're kind of back in the rat race of quarterback potentially because because obviously Russell Wilson will be up, Justin Fields will be up. So are they kind of lighting that six round pick on fire. And again, six round pick is not like

Outside of that fifth year.

But I do think it's interesting, you know, I think a lot of people in the media are really high on it. When I talk to people around the NFL, they're like, yeah, just In Fields, They're like, not like super geeked about the whole you know, what I'm saying, think.

About this logan how much money out of spending in the quarterback room in Picksbury.

Right, but they got us. What I'm saying is like you're you're buying yourself a year of quarterback points. Yeah, but then Rustles up, right, I'm assuming, and then Fields is up or you gotta make a decisionless with your Ruster and all of a sudden that room can become very expensive. And so that's the thing that I get is like, what are you actually getting from these decisions?

Well?

I feel like it's a low risk, high reward situation because I mean it is still I mean, all draft pics are important, but it is just a sixth ron pick at the end of the day. And if you potentially hit on Justin Fields, because we've seen what he can do, right, especially with his legs, and you've seen you've seen him kind of grow a little bit as a passer. If he continues that development and you're like, hey, we only got like a six.

Front pick for this guy.

Like, yeah, that's great, And I think I think, I think if you feel like you can take that game, I feel like a lot of teams would actually do that well.

One of the things about that that I find really interesting also is like both of these guys are kind of outside the numbers throwers, right, they kind of create off schedule with their legs. And then this Arthur Smith offense, Yeah, like they throw play action passes over the middle of the field, which justin fields doesn't do particularly well, which Russell Wilson has not done very well. Yeah, and so

Poulf a pound.

Is it one of the best quarterback rooms in the league? Is it any one to two punch pot is stowing quarterback backup that compares to these like the I don't think I can think of as Kirking maybe behind a key down in Alta.

I think everyone gets caught up with the name with fields is the game, man, I think like you got to think about what, like what's just just what's just transpired in terms of value for him? And I think if it was if it was another guy like, you know whatever, Joe Schmoe guy like, I think we'd be like, oh yeah, they just moved a guy that no one's that exciting.

But I think that's a lion Pole's problem because I think when he said we're gonna trade him and make it good, he dropped the value or to pick Dan because now I know.

You haven't which may or may not be true, but yeah, but.

I just feel like Dean, you set yourself up for failure. Because now I know you have to move this guy. You've made everybody understand that you're taking Caleb Williams number one. I'm not finna give you the I'm not finna give you a second round pick for Jason Field when I know you have to move them. So I think the Chicago Bears their self front office tied their hands on it.

Well.

I think the other thing, too, is like, there's so many unknowns about what Russell Wilson is now that I can't really I can't have confidence late it's a pound for pound, a good year. Last year's a better year than he did the year before, but was still, like

Plus justin Fields.

Too, So we have a Steelers fan in the building and in turn, Caroline and one of the things she was saying when she came in was that the play for these guys doesn't necessarily match the name. The logan's point and The issue that she feels she's going to run into as a fan is a minute one struggles, you're gonna want the next ten and it's going to just be this constant like, well, who should be going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, because

I'm not saying that, but like you're gonna have to make a decision on Justin Fields's salary. You're not gonna get see him play probably this year, like assuming Russell Wilson's is the starter, right, so you're gonna have to like it. Just I don't know he's in the building. I guess you get to kind of get a feel for the guy.

Going to play.

He's going to blink. I think he's going to play, like I think. I think it's a one hundred per cent think about it. They don't if they have a losing record, he's gonna play. If they have a renting record and Russ is not playing, whee they they go for a reason to put Jason stuff.

You just I think about the stuff you just talked about.

They're a defensive lead team that runs the football, and you asked Russ to make the occasional play, right, You're not going to get a true kind of read on where Russ is at because he's going to be so

Yeah, I think you're gonna be okay. So that's the thing.

It's like everyone talks about. You're saying the system, is the environment so good for fostering quarterback growth? Like how is he gonna screw it up enough?

Because Justin Field would most definitely star at the year with a package. You know, they're not gonna have him as the better runner and not have a gold line justin Field package smart. It's gonna be like if you off as a coordinator, I have to whiponize your legs when you know, because think about it, I got these two quarterbacks in the buildings too, you know, established quarterbacks.

I'd be curious to know how big that package is going to be for Justin Field.

And sprawl speculator, so you know when Arthur, when Arthur was in Tennessee and they had Tannehill and Mariota for that one year, Mario had a package.

Well he was I think Marioda played for like three plays after he was benched, like it was not a hole and it's mostly red zone stuff.

So I don't think that.

To me, based on history, I don't think there's gonna be many plays for justin field, especially like what we know about Pittsburgh, they're always competitive and then they're never gonna do much is going to like screw them up as far as like draft is er game, the playoffs, like that's and that's exactly what you think is going to happen.

Active with Russell Wilson.

Well, we don't think they're going to go undefeed, and we don't think they're going to be leading every single game that they're in. So at some point Russ is going to have to make a play and he's not going to do it, and that's when justin fields hits.

But then I don't know, I think I think that's how it works, but I think no, But I think like I think there's there I don't know. It sounds like everyone in here is much higher on justin fields than I am, and I don't think. I don't think he's he's over the course of his time in Chicago, I think it's been romanticized to a certain extent.

And I'm not a Justin Fields.

Hater, Like I think he's got talent, he's got ability, but in terms of playing the quarterback position consistently, he just hasn't done at a high level. So that's the thing that I come back to. It's like, yeah, you got a guy who's very talented, our six round pick.

I love that. But in terms of like what is he going to be this year for them? Yeah, I thinks maybe the backup quarterback, you know.

And and I think, like, you're going to be in this position where it's like, hey, do we like him enough to extend him next year? And that's kind of the the player you're gonna run into it. And I don't know, I think he's ever gonna get back. I don't know it in to see if he ever gets back to being in that like starting kind of count, I.

Think I think he is.

I think he will have a legit chance to do this, and I think Pittsburgh is the perfect stop for him. Pittsburgh ain't one of those places where they just looking to replace everybody. They believe in continuity. And one thing that he will have at Stowing next year regards if he plays not or not, he would know the playbook. He'll be cheap all right. So at the end of the day, he will be the perfect mix for them. And if they see any growth at practice, any growth, he.

Will be the staring quarterback next year because because Russell is only there for one year, and I think I think he would take a monumental balling out year for him to get an.

Extension, Like I really do.

I don't.

I don't, cause especially when you have a guy like in justin fields are they believe in you know you we hope and like you think that you can turn him into something even better. Four years old exactly, he's still so young. Yeah exactly.

I'm just sorry. It's just so much hope there. And that's.

His Bonnicks.

He's twenty five years olt.

So where where did Canny Pickt go the Steelers?

Did he just got Philadelphia?

Philadelphia?

Yeah?

So I don't able to play a gee.

That's what I'm saying. So why are we all of a sudden.

Pickett couldn't play last year, Like we're talking about a guy that shows.

But I think, I think it's so interesting that when you look at completion percentage, throes of the middle of the field, Kenny Pickett is significantly better than Justin Fields and those statistical categories.

But I have eyeballs he stinks.

Kim Pickett stink.

But what I'm saying, though, is in terms of production, everyone talks about how Justin.

Field has improved. He's improved to like a bottom, Like I think he's a twenty fifth quarterback in the NFL in terms of those kind of advanced Kenny Pickett's thirty two. No, but I'm saying Kenny Pickett was better.

So and again I'm not saying it's exactly a one for one, same situation, But people have this narrative about these two players because of the because of the excitement one brings as a runner, and I'm not again like that brings his ceiling and I get it, but like, I think it's important to keep him where he needs to be kept, you know what I'm saying, Like it's like, don't put these lofty expectations.

He sells a lot of growth to do. And I do think Fred.

You bring up a good point, he'll be in the building, he'll have an opportunity to grow, and then you never know what happens next year. But I just think there's this this romanticization.

Whatever that word is.

I would don't exist.

We've also seen a year of what a canny picket let offense is. It's stale and stagnant. Is that we've seen, And justin Fields is can we all agree?

Can we all agree?

How do you characterize more?

Though?

Is that thing?

No?

No, What I'm saying is, let's talk about each of these guys floor who floor is lower?

And I will say Kenny Piketts whose ceiling is.

Higher justin Fields because of the leagues, because he's on the stronger because I'm willing to invest a little bit more in him than I would the other project. Like Kenny Piggy has shown me flashes of nothing a good backup quarterback in his NFL. That's what Kenny pick.

Do you think the Fields could be a starter with.

The right coach?

Ceiling is way higher with dustin Fields? I think your ceiling you almost damn you hit your ceiling with Candy Picking.

Cool.

So another team that needs a quarterback, right, the Vikings go ahead logan.

Logo.

No no, there's a lot of not commanders talk on it.

No, no, no.

But I think that's I think that's good. I think that's good.

It's good for the Commanders to think about to right in terms of quarterback decisions, because like, there is an opportunity here with the Vikings right where it's like the Vikings have traded up with the Houston Texans. They've got eleven and twenty three is correct, right, So obviously they're packaging something to move up in the draft. And I think a team that they could potentially move up with

Yeah, I do think the Commanders are that they could be in play for sure, because I mean, draft capital is so import especially in this draft w it's so top heavy, and you can still get if you really want to get J. J. McCarthy, or you want to get like O Nicks or any the other guys, you could get those at eleven or twenty three. The Cardinals are also I could also see them moving up. With the Cardinals because they have Kyler Murray and I don't think they're going to move on from him.

At least this year.

They will. Harrison, I don't think they've moved.

I mean, yeah, I agree, But at the same time, like draft picks, that matters. So I do think, like Amy were in that top five, I think it's very well possible that they could move up and try to get somebody there.

First of all, number five is the golden pick that they're looking for.

You talking about the LA Chargers and you're talking about Jim Harbaugh got it wants to add more cheap talent, young talented team that he could shape and mold, and you're giving him the number five PI you take the number eleven pick, you still can get Brock Bowels hit number eleven if you Hogebo. Now you still got the twenty third pick. Now you can ask you offensive tackle like you can do so much if you the charges right there. I think the golden pick right there is

So for me, I think I don't disagree with you. I think that's a really nice trade up spot.

But the problem that I have with that is, like you are trading up if you go, what is that five or six there at six right five?

Day at five five, you're trading for the fourth quarterback. You know what I'm saying.

You're trading up for jj Orboda whoever it is, right and I and I don't think you packaged three first round picks to get the trade up for the fourth guy.

Where you do if you feel like next year's quarterback draft is not this year's quarterback draft, Like you know what I'm saying, It's like they.

Pay people panic people make panic move but.

I think if I'm if I'm them, I want to give myself the like I think, I look at San Francisco a couple of San Francisco the forty nine ers couple years ago as the model, like where they traded up to two or trade up to three to get the second guy, and I think, like, that's ultimately like what you're looking at here, right, It's like how high can I get to ensure that I get the most valuable player at the position.

That I'm looking for? Right?

I don't want to be like boxed into the fourth player. Does that make sense what I'm saying, Yeah.

Totally understand.

But then it has to be a New England trade because they feel like they got too many holes to just throw a quarterback up in there.

And I think that's to me, that would be the move.

True for here too. I feel like we do have a lot of holes that we're filling in free agency, but we're still in team building mode to me, unless you're if you're two or three with or four?

Yeah, four is Arizona, Arizona.

You're not four, so fun, But Arizona I think could trade out too.

But well, I say three or five is the Golden locks.

Right, if you're not falling in love with whoever that pick is going to be, whoever that quarterback is going to be, then back up, like why not?

Like you?

In my opinion, you have to be in love with either Drake may or Jena Daniels or JJ McCarthy to not move back.

Well, that's the thing. JJ is who everybody's following in love with. He's the odd man out of the top three. Talk he's like, think about the Tour Draft, think about the Joe Burrow Draft. That draft right there, you could get a good quarterback and you didn't have to be

Do you feel that way? Yeah?

But if that's true, then why don't you just stand picking a up?

Yea?

Because I think JJ will be there at eleven.

I don't know that.

But to Freend's point, BO or Pennix or JJ potentially like it's not outside their own possibility, but one of those three dudes will be there at eleven. Yeah, and so if you think that's true of all those guys, then you don't need to package that twenty third pick to move up. But it does feel like that they've kind of identified a talent and from you know, the rumor mill given. You know, give that the due credit,

So if you want Drake May, you got to come to two. You got to you got to come to two. And I think like that's as much as we want to talk about, not.

Three, not three, because everybody's saying to ensure it, you have to get there.

You have to hope that commanders take.

But a consolation prize of jayde Daniels is not that bad, you know, if you if you get to three, you know, I'm just.

Saying no, and I think we're all saying the same thing here.

But I guess for me, if they want to get all the way up to that to their guy apparently is Drake May, you got to get to two. And so I think for the commanders it's really interesting because, like I look at teams that have been very successful of the last couple of years, and you know they've there's two models. One is you have Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow,

By the roster in good point calling. Yeah, I don't know, And I think when you look at the history of that elite quarterback guy, anybody who doesn't have the elite guy. So if you're Peyton.

Manning, you're looking at your outside looking in a lot of years, Aaron Rodgers outside looking at a lot of years. When you're looking at this group with Patrick Mahomes and you've got Josh Allen looking in, Joe Burrow looking in, like, is it better? Is a more viable option to get you to a super Bowl in five years? Build up the roster so that you can't lose that last game and you give yourself a shot against the best player

Let me give you all a hypothetical and give me your percentage and the chance that something like this could happen. Let's say the Vikings want to move up to two with us, so we trade back. We trade back to eleven. We grab their eleventh pick, their twenty third that they just got from the Texans, We grab their second round in a first round. It's probably what it's going to take. Ye, that's a lot, right, But we still want a quarterback.

Fluid draft day is possible. A fluid a day'll come in and say, you know what, we got to pose the field. Let's manipulate the draft in our own way. If you manipulate the draft by going down and coming back up. Now you got the pedal to the metal at that time. First of all, you understood that the second and the fourth quarterback are not that different. That's what you're saying. Like in your eyes, you're saying that these guys are really jumbled together. So it don't matter

Is it a lot too a lot to the past Russia? Or is it verse? Is it a tackle?

Like who is making you force your hand to do this? To say, you know what, I need both of these guys and the only way to get them is to trade out of the top two.

Yeah, No, I think that's a that's a great point. And like, honestly, I think when you like sit down and parcel it out, I don't know if there is that big of a discrepancy between you know, the third guy and the fourth guy, like it's it's situation dependent for sure. But if you could add again, like on a roster right now, that is kind of re retooling, rebuilding,

And I don't know if I'm.

There yet, but that Jade, there's not that big of a difference between JJ and Drake May. And there are some people like you can find them look on the internet and you can find them anywhere and they'll give you that they'll say that that's how they feel about the quarterbacks. Obviously Minnesota doesn't feel that way.

So I do think you're kind of expediting your your team building if you kind of do both of those that you trade down in trade beck up, Because yeah, you are also because like you said, this team does have a lot of holes even though they've been added about a billion players in free and so they still

Yeah.

Onder, but I really feel good about what Peters is doing for to me, he's peeling the onions slowly.

He bringing all these free agents to build a roster.

Then he drafts and over the years he lets the free agents go and replaces them with draft picks, and that's how he builds his team. So we had to have this big flurry to get these guys on his roster, and he bringing in guys this x first rounders and guys that you know what, if they do catch fire, I found this diamond in the rough.

So I like the slow.

Progression that he's doing, but it's to me, it's still pedal to the metal, Like it's not slow building. To me, he's fast cooking in the crock pot. But he also understands where he wants to get to. And that's a draft laden team build by the draft, but this year it had.

To be built through free agency.

Yeah, let's talk about that real quick.

So obviously one of the moves they made was they moved on from Sam Howell and they acquired fourth round the third round pick, yes seventy years there ago. I was reading my It's trung, So I just wanted to talk about that real quick because you got, like fred Ya hit that perfectly right. He's trying to kind of lay the foundation with some good leadership, some older players, not long term solutions, and then build through the draft. I talent through the draft, I guess the way to

I think your hand with force, because you know you're bringing in a young quarterback. I can't have young teaching the young, blind leading the blind. I need a veteran in here to help coach and help more support this young guy. I was shocked that Sam got so much more than a jesting Fields. I was very shocked at his quiety, his worth. But then I thought about it. Seattle was in love with Sam out of the draft.

So I think that so interesting because like the Justin Fields thing, comparison to Sam, how I think is really viable. One of the things I want to point out here is Sam is under contract. He's price controlled for the next three years, right, Yeah, And I think that's the one thing with Justin Fields that I keep coming back to again. I think Justin Fields is a dynamic player.

Or move on from him.

And with Seattle, the value is the talent that Sam presents, but also that he's under a rookie deal for the next three years.

You know that you got the leverage on Justin Fields because you have had this rocky story, Like, I don't have to pay you top of the market.

But I think that's the concern if you're like if you're Chicago, for example, Like let's just say, like if they didn't trade him, you have to make a decision about him financially. Let's say they were to keep him, Yeah, in In you know forty what is that twelve months basically, right, And I think that when you look at it from that perspective, you might not need.

To pay him top of the dollar, top of the market value.

But a quarterback is expensive and I'm not sure that you could get him cheap, you know what I'm saying. Like, so that's so that that's why in this situation moving Sam, he's price controlled value. There you can be in your system. You can protect him, you can insulate him, you can foster him, you can grow him. Unlike Justin who is there for a year and then you've got to make make a contract decision.

Well no, and don't forget they have to make a decision on that fifth year in like two months.

Yeah, it's like it's in the fifth year. Don't you worry about that? Now?

What they will do is do a clean sleep Keen slate deal, just a short deal, two to three year deal.

Like trying to get him on an extension.

Yeah, because I think Pittsburgh understand as long as he's in the buildings a to us to let him out.

Count down the Packers there with Jordan love Ye, I'm.

Going to say, it's up to us to let him out.

But we got him now and we'll be best in line to negotiate with him because especially if we don't play him, like if we don't play him in Russ plays, how easy is it going to be to negotiate with Jason fields as a store in quarterback. It's gonna be very easy.

It'd be really astuted to see. But yeah, I do think that.

I think that's one of the reasons you see the discrepancy there in value. So let's talk about some Washington footballer. What do you think, Jason, Yeah, I think that's a good idea. We're going to do our top fifties on our big boards. Each of us is going to go through and give them. So here's Washington's first six.

Picks in the draft and why the top fifty is important here for our listeners. So we have a first round number two overall, we have the number thirty six, the number forty from Chicago that was the Montes Sweat trade. We have the sixty seventh trade. We have this seventy eighth sixty seventh pick, seventy eighth pick from Seattle that's from Sam Howe. And then we have the number one hundred from San Francisco that was Chase Young.

Chase Young.

So when we do these top fifties, good chance some of these players might be here on the Washington roster.

A very good chance, very very good chance. Yeah.

So the point of this exercise is to show that for every single talent evaluator from somebody that really grinds it, like Logan, former players like Fred, a staff writer like Zach, and just a guy like me, that we all value things differently and how the player falls on our big board is different than how we think they will be drafted. That is a very clear something I need to say, very clearly, right, this is not the order we think

This is the first time like i'd ever like made a big board. So I was looking for like some inspiration, you know, and the time that I was looking at and like everyone's i'd YoY on. It is completely I mean I've seen somewhere they value all the quarterbacks in like the top ten, some some similar, a little more, a little more spread out. Like it's it's it's almost like you know, you mad drafts are kind of eventually all everyone kind of picks.

The same people at some point. Yeah, it gets closed.

Yeah, but but big boards, it's like it's like in Jurassic Park when they're trying to like close the doors for the velocirapher get then it's like a sea of data.

That's exactly what big boards are like, cause they're all different.

Right, exactly. So that's a good place to start, Zach, why don't you tell us what how did you craft your big board? What did what were the things that you were thinking about when it's like why this guy over this guy?

Well, so essentially what I was doing was I was I was trying to figure because out I will say, okay, who who are you go at the top? Who the guys are thinking at the bottom, and who are some guys I think are kind of in the middle, right, And so I would separate it by fives, so I would go these are top five, these are bottom five, and then I worked down from there and eventually, you know, I would I come up. I'm kind of almost like a scatter point thing, right, I'd to say, all right,

Maybe a little bit lower. So it was definitely an interesting exercise to do for sure.

And you know, I'm curiously which I'll think about it, but I think I've got a pretty solid obviously, you know, as a former offensive lineman, Like, I've got a lot of offensive linemen on my board, which is also good because this year's draft has a lot of good ones on there. But I'll say there's a lot of edge players out there that I really like, a lot of receivers obviously, the quarterbacks are stuff around there in the top twenty. So but yeah, I'm, like I said, I'm very curious.

See how everyone's going to react to this?

Do you make curious?

So yeah, for me, I go like, kind of what I think is like a surefire prospect or as close

His ceiling's very high.

I think he's very, very talented, but you know, he hasn't thrown the ball ton, so I don't know for sure, right And then I've got kind of like guys that I think it'd be solid, like solid starters at the NFL level, but there's more questions as you go down the list, there's more questions, and I try to clump them together in a way that kind of meets my brain.

Function, you know what I'm saying.

So like from twenty four to forty, kind of guys that I think are going to be good players in the NFL. And then guys that I think forty one to fifty that I think are talented that right now probably aren't starters, but I think have the work ethic, the physical profile to be something more.

So that's kind of how I broke it up. And it just kind of gets down the list.

So as you go down the list, there's just more and more questions about a player, and as you go up to the top there should be fewer and fewer, especially from the film, which is our evaluation tools. That's kind of my my process.

Yeah, this is my first big board too, and I think I want to say sorry for is every year I do this, I'm always like, this is the most subjective thing of all time.

Yes, exactly, yea, every year I do it. That's exactly what I was going to say. This is completely subjective when I was making my big board, because I wanted to be true to myself and what I saw, and like it was hard for me not to get pulled to like what Daniel Jeremiah sets or what PFF says because I look at their boards to be like, am I like way off basic? And every now and then I would be and I'm like I had to fight it, and a part of me was like, well is it

Look it's looking at a piece of art like there's technically no wrong answer, but there's also like, clearly you're off base.

Why certain thing?

If Kayla Williams is like my tenth best player, like what like I can't even like take that serious, right?

So what I what I did to try and mesh these two this conflict that I was emotionally having with this was I tried to do like a tier system, right basically, first, like, these are guys that I think are going to be very good players, maybe not right away, but they have the ceiling to be very good players with little downside, so high floor, high ceiling, right kind

And Fred, and to that point, I literally just made a change.

Yeah there, you know this is going to be ever flowing, ever flowing our big boards? Fred, how did you create your big board? I try to look at guys and I do tears, like you said, I do my tears. I do who do I think could be a future pro bowler?

Superstar?

I do Who's going to be a Day one starter, who could develop into a starter, and who is pretty much probably gonna be a backup.

All right, So we know this, and I think this is what really blows the draft away.

No matter how close we get to getting these picks right, all these players won't be good in the NFL.

And I think that's the scared report about it.

No matter how good they measure, no matter how good they look at the combine, no matter how good the film look, all of these guys will not be good pros.

So I try to group guys together. And when I start to do that, I create a tree.

And once I started at the top of the tree with my Caleb Williams the start of the tree, and I get to the bottom of it, and it'll lay these guys out. So I just lump them together and make sure I try to I try to look at it, not what you did in college. How's it gonna translate

Yeah.

Absolutely. So here's how we're gonna do this process. We're gonna count down from fifty to one, and uh, we're just gonna fred you can start. Then it will be Logan, so be me, and then the next time we'll talk about, hey, what are some surprises where you see here?

What's a guy that sticks out to you here? Next started out with oh, stat.

Is that concernative? All right, So that's where we're gonna Yeah, we're gonna go fifty to thirty six, so roll right on through.

So okay, so fifty I got Xavier Worthy Robins, You're out of Texas forty nine, Patrick Paul Tackle out of Houston, forty eight, Jordan Morgan tackle out of Arizona, Marshall Neelan Edge Western Michigan forty six, Roman Wilson Robinsteriver, Michigan forty five, Ricky Piersoll from Florida, Kean Coleman from FSU, Cooper Baybay from Kansas State, Uh, Devandre Sweat Texas to Tavian Sanders

Nice, very nice. Yeah, yeah, so a little surprised. I'm not surprised. I shouldn't be surprised. I actually forgot to put Cooper Bebe in my list. He's a guy that I think is really talented on the inside playing guard. How did you come to him? Like being in your top fifty and like what was the thing that was like?

This is the guy?

I think his footwork is really really good. I think he's like I'm just so in love with what he pulls, Like it's.

It's you mentioned the poll in the last show. Its like there's nothing there's more to playing guard than pulling.

Yeah, it's it's so gorgeous. I know, I know, but like it's such a good I like him too.

He's very physical, he finished his blocks like, uh, he's on film. Like when I watch him, I think I just smile every time I watch him, because like, I just think that's a damn good rep. Every time I see him.

I think he's a heck of a football playing when I think I mentioned this when I talked to some people at the Combine Molo line coaches, they were like, he's it was like, you know the guys you think it was like Troy uh Fatano and all these guys, but then and like Grant Barton, and then it was like Cooper Beabay was the third guy. You know, it wasn't like Christian Haynes. It was he was very very high people sowards. The other guy was Sanders from Texas to tight end making your top fifty.

Why I think his ability as a receiver is obviously is really what I'm hoping for. Right He still needs to really work on his blocking, I would say, but I think in today's NFL, I think you kind of want you especially not as a number one tight end. I think you can you can work with him as a receiver and kind of let him develop as a blocker in time, I think, which is why he's not like he's still kind of.

Sort of low on the fun of fifty.

Yeah, what was he what was your number one. I think he was forty one forty one.

Yeah, yeah, so I think I like, I like the potential of what he could be.

Yeah.

For me, it's interesting because like all these tight ends, even even what's his name block bowers to a certain extent, like what is your role at the next level? Like because you're not like he didn't run as well as I was hoping Sanders didn't run as well as I was hoping. You're on like a four six nine four seven one. Yeah, so like you're not like a blazing fast guy. Are you a big slot because you can't

Yeah I can. I want to say Zach that what I think is interesting is the wide receivers. Obviously, there are a lot of good wide receivers in this class. And I'm just curious on the back end here of our top fifty, who's going to make the cut for each of us individually, Because I have a lot of wide receivers. They're not the same as yours. Here is

And he's also small. But he's good football, Yes, very good football player.

Chop Robinson, penn State. I have at thirty nine bo Nicks. Your friend's already mad I bo Nicks at thirty eight. Peyton Wilson, the linebacker from Incy State. And then rounding out this fifteen here I have Lad McConkie wi really from Georgia.

Thirty six, Yes, thirty slower than I thought you'd have it, a little lower than.

I thought he would go, but the right. That's why I wanted to talk about wide receiver. It's surprising because the ones I have in front of him, I think are I think you're maybe a little better better, so we're a little higher stealing.

The one that I was surprised about there is Brownly from Louisville. And again he's a guy that you mentioned this on the last podcast. Film just okay, fine, It's like he does some good stuff, but it's nothing. He's had a great post season process. Senior Bowl was awesome, Combine was awesome. How do you weigh that in relation to what his film is.

Yeah, this is one of those ones where I had to be true to myself. Right, Like I've heard all the time, do not fall in love with a guy based on the combine or like the outside football stuff. And he was okay right, Like I even I look back at my notes. When I first watched him, I was like, yeah, good player, right, And then when he's at the Senior Bowl one on one good looked really good.

Just to give you an example, that's like why Darius Robinson has shot up boards.

Right.

You saw traits, you saw physicality, you saw heavy hands, you saw a pursuit.

It put you in uncomfortable positions.

But basically your point is he was playing five technique Missouri. He plays a true edge kind of stand up player, and he looks like that dude, So I think like maybe they're just using him differently at the Super Bowl and you see different skill sets, Fred, you got your Yeah, the thirty six.

Fifty to thirty six fifty is Patrick Paul.

We got his brother here in his uh and don't make me and it's Ray kraw I got him at forty nine. I got bow knicks at forty eight. I know this shock shot because y'all think I hate on bow knicks. I was attack because I think I played against his daddy.

Now think about it.

You think I got Brandon Fisk at forty seven, all right, Zach Frasier guard forty six a zaber look get because.

None of y'all had him in y'all top fifty. I got him at forty or five?

Accurate, he does, I got him at forty four. Malachai Crawley Cory. Yes, I think he is a faster Deebo Samuels like I think I think when he gets in the lead. I'm telling you it's something about this kid. Forty three. I got Chris Jenkins forty two, key young Coleman. I know he ran the slow forty, but I think he's a football player. Numbers don't do anything for him. Forty one Braylan Trice. I think he gonna actually have a better pro career than he had college career.

Ed forty I got TJ. Tempa cornerback.

All right.

That's what I like to do.

I like to make sure the cornerbacks is in there. And he's a guy that earned it, all right. Thirty nine Ricky Prorell that's his name, Prorell.

Uh piersong song peer So why.

What looked like me? Like Perell what like this, whatever y'all want to call him.

I think he's gonna most definitely be a better pro than a college player, all right.

I got Mitchell or Donald Mitchell at thirty eight.

I got Kingsley uh seem Matalia at thirty seven, and at thirty six, I got Michael Pennix junior.

Nice. So I like that Bylan Trice. Braylan Trice think you had him at.

Four Ragland Trice and forty one forty one.

So interesting guy because I really really like his film. But he had like a disastrous combine.

Yeah, you noticed a couple of my guys. I had terrible combine.

And I don't think everybody is good as being on the stage and showing up for people in times.

He just made some weird decisions, Like he weighed it ntil he was a two seventy five that's what he played out in college, big power ad dresser. Yeah, came in at two forty to forty, so like you.

Lost what thirly pounds? And then but then he ran a four to seven one, so you're like, okay, what happened? And then he didn't listen to instructions very well in the team drills.

So that's my type. I animal he plays good foot past me, but Bud he plays again.

I was so high on him and then he goes to the common I'm like and just just the decision making, like you lost thirty five pounds from when the season you just.

Got one me for over hype.

I know, but that's a weird time.

That's a weird decision. Guy, that's a weird decision though. It's weird the decision making.

I like the.

Randicism of this guy because it tells me all I could do is play football, Like I love.

I love guy. I love like that, Like, hey, hey, Bryce, do you want to go on the trip to France? No, they don't play football all over it Like he more of a run pain guy like pay Like, what you want to do? Football? You got anything you like doing? Season football? Trice Is didn't.

So he was the guy that was borderline for me top fifty, but again just on the outside looking in, because I'm like, who's advising what's happening there?

I mean, at least so for me, he's probably like a top sixty five player, But yeah.

He's right there. We all have Patrick Paul in this in this area.

Yeah, So I got Marshall Kneeland, the guy from Western Michigan, good motor, good player testedbut Patrick Paull at forty nine, Mike Sanders still from Michigan to and Andre Sweat at forty seven. For me, that's a jacent guy. Xavier like at fred forty six, TJ. Tampa the probably the best tackling corner in the class, a little uncertain about his role forty four, key On Coleman forty three. Kamari Lasser

You get up there, tell me hot what was it the comebine. They put him up there because the film in the comebine don't match out there, So I so let me.

Finish my list.

So that's forty one, alcome back Edrian Cooper forty, Jordan Morgan thirty nine, Xavier Worthy thirty eight. The Tech of the Receiver from Texas Kings assumatia, same as Fred thirty seven, kool Aid mckinnistry thirty six. So with regards to Peyton Wilson, I like his film a lot. I think he runs well. He's got that sideline, the sideline ability to meet, the injury history, and the fact he has thirty inch charms and it shows up on film when he's taken on blocks.

For example.

I think those kangaroo oms is gonna hurt him in the league. I agree, I just really do. I think guards are going to get on him quick.

I think his I think his best thing is if he plays in the defense where he got a nose going over top of him and just allows him to run sideline.

Sounds almost better, like to your point as like a true will like where he's almost out of it, like almost like a strong safety type player. Yeah, because he has a really hard time, and I think about like Cooper bebe getting on him like he like there's no way he could. There's he has no tool right to get off with his hat and hands. He's just not strong enough in his upper body. So that's why he's down there for me. All right, So now we're doing what are we doing? Thirty five one one?

Yeah, all right, so I'll start out with Kingsley Sue Maataiah dude, Yeah.

Thirty five.

I've been coming around on him.

It's to me.

I watched more films last night, and he's a mess. Sometimes he's a mess, but he is an athletic freak. He's an athletic freak and like you just can't. There's like not that many people that are six five and three twenty they can run afi walking around on the street.

He's my like I'm a as as a form, like I said, I'm a stickler for the technique one not very technical.

No, this is my attempt at him.

He's he's Morgan Moses coming out of Virginia. Yes, he's Morgan Moses when he came.

Out, all right, that's pretty good, bright actually coming out of nowhere. That one nice.

Thirty four Christian Haynes at a Yukon.

That's high for him.

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't mean like in a bad way, but like I like him.

Yeah, thirty three ly get Wow, Yeah, thirty two they're Han Newton, Illinois.

Yeah, Darius Robinson edge, I love it.

J C.

Latham Okay, Yeah. Then you got Michael Pennix Junior.

What pick are you own?

Twenty eight?

All right?

Twenty eight?

And we got Graham Barton twenty seven, we got that coming twenty six, Chop Robinson, we got it in come twenty five am, Marius Mimes twenty four, Brian Thomas Junior.

Did you look at my paper?

It's probably copied the cent?

That's all what co GM's Yeah, let's see all right. We got Nate Wiggins Clemson. What number twenty three?

Bo Nicks quarterback, Morgan and Cooper Jean twenty one? Yeah, twenty one.

Wow, we ain't this? You and I am not so different?

I gotta ask you. JC Latham. I don't know where he was.

What was the number it was lower the thirty thirty. Why so low or why relatively they're compared to consensus a little bit lower?

On him, I think I want to look at him. I think he's look when I watch him as all right, this guy. I read all the stuff about it. Everyone's in love with him, think he's great. And I watched him, I was like, oh, he's he's.

An average Alabama Okay, Like.

I wouldn't say like he does the job. I think it does it fine. I never look at him like with Cooper.

Baby.

I look at him and I'm like, wow, that is awesome. As for lath And I'm like, Okay, that's a win, that's that's a.

That's a solid rep.

I don't think you like motor.

No, not necessarily.

I don't love his motor either, But I don't think you can underrate at the college level just dominant, getting on getting on base. No, yeah, like you just got to win the ones you're supposed to win. And I think there's some inconsistency to his efforts, some inconsistency to his like mental but when he is physically going in the right direction, like he's a special guy. And I was talking to a Scott at the combat about him who it was his number one tackle and I was

Think, heavy hands heavy.

There's value there. But again I don't disagree. Thirty is I think very reasonable.

I think the big thing is like I was expecting high expectations. I wanted to be blown away, and yeah, I just didn't necessarily see like that.

I kind of went through a similar process, and I think we're just I'm like a month ahead of you. So you'll come back around on it, and then you'll get out of him again and you'll go back and forth like you do.

So Fred who you got because you guys have the same muster parent You.

Know what, Hey, he stole my recipes and now he's still in madrev list. At thirty five. I got Kamari Lasston uh At thirty four, I got a Cooper Edrian Cooper. At thirty three, I got xab You're worthy.

Uh.

At thirty two, I got Newton d tackle. This is what we had in coming right there.

Uh. At thirty one, I got Sweat d tackle tixas. At thirty I got Cooper Baby this. I love it, bab Fred, I like, I love him. Man, you remind me of pack Man. He just goes around just chumping up defensive line and just eating them apart.

I don't like that. That's a good comp it's a good cop. I'm not being facetious. He kind of looks like that.

No, Like, did he just eat this dude?

Yeah? Yeah, he's that dude.

He's mean a right. Twenty nine, I got Darius Robinson. I love that dude all right. Twenty eight I got Jordan Morgan offensive tackle. Twenty seven Why no, no no. At twenty seven, I got Graham Barton at twenty six, Chop Robinson twenty five, Nate Wiggins.

I love skinny Conels and he is skinny as it is and I love it.

Hey, by the way, he put on ten pounds first Pro day. So waiting at one seventy two with ye.

Yeah, how about that.

Yeah, all you got to do is drink yolks yolks and you'll get there. At twenty four, I got Brian Thomas Junior. All right, most definitely, I think he's going to actually be one of the better receivers.

In his draft. At twenty three, I got tearyan On I. At twenty two I got j C.

Layton, And at twenty one I got for Shannu oposite tackle pin State.

All right, so let's ask you about Jordan Morgan. Real cool. We haven't talked about him a ton. Yeah, so you're fred, go ahead.

He's a dancing bear.

He doesn't. He's a good athlete.

He's a dancing bear. I'm talking about yogi. He's one of these guys, big body, light feet. I could take that in attack.

So I just for context, I have him at thirty nine, so I see the athlete. But I have some questions, Zach, and I can see your face all screwed up.

I just I'm just not that impressive.

Yeah, his physicality I think is an issue for me. Yeah, like you mentioned Cooper, bebe like dude, no question about his physicality. Jacy Latham, no question about his physical with Morgan, You're like, you can hit this guy hard if you want.

That's on the table. And again, good athlete.

Like the way he moves, and I think he'll go high because of that, because you can't find big guys that move well.

Yeah, but I'm always had.

Some Brian McKinney in him.

He has these Like I watched Brian McKinney dominate in the NFL because not because he was so vicious, because he just invoked people.

He enveloped the he.

Can literally did because he hugs people a lot.

Yeah, but he was also dominated.

But Brian McKinney is I think he's six eights, like six seven year for like three seventy five. Jordan Morgan is six ' five, He's got thirty two inch arms, He's like one hundred and three hundred and ten pounds, so not the same stature. I feel like he's gonna be a guard the next level.

But I think so too.

But yeah, like the guy that is mixed mixed reviews apparently just had to work out with with the Dallas Cowboys, and his agent put out that the Cowboys think he can play tackle.

I think that's agent talk, But yeah, who you got Jason?

All Right, I'm ready for a lot of wows. Well, I'm gonna fight. I'm gonna fight you guys here, all right. So thirty five Darius Robinson Missouri, Kingsley Sua Mattia follows him up from BYU. Chris Braswell from Alabama.

Want to put him in it high?

Wow, amarus Man's thirty two probably a little none of you have said him.

Yeah American, we got.

Him, got him right, That's what I'm saying. Twenty five Okay, okay, Tyler Newman safety from Minnesota, Graham Barton from Duke DJ Tampa, Fred and good player st. Xavier Legett I have at twenty eighth. I really like Leg.

I like Leg like I do. He's a monster man.

Yeah yeah, yeah, Nate Wiggins, Fred, you and I both like him. The skinny corner, but doesn't like to tackle that.

Ry when you guys kissed the ball that you don't.

That's why he's down here.

I was going to say, probably, no, not probably the best coverage player in the class, but doesn't doesn't tackle very smooth.

You know what I ta college, But you know they say his cumpy is men.

He'll be then he'll be a good player. But you would mix up, man.

What I'm saying. But he does it.

He will.

He doesn't mix get how he needed to write coordinator to say, you know what, you don't tackle, you don't play.

I hope he gets that. Yeah, Ricky who is that? Fred Pearson? I call him Ricky Rick wide receiver twenty six. Yeah, Jared Verse, that's real.

I mean I'm with that a little bit.

Yeah, a little Tyler Geiton, Oklahoma. Yeah, Jersine Newton from Illinois, kool Aid McKinstry.

The Cornerbackliday that though you got to make twenty two?

Yeah, a little high. Yeah, I can talk about him looking and then Brandon.

Fisk is it fiskysis Fisk.

That's why I love him.

I I'm prepared to depend motor, but also I love.

I love the motor, I love the violent hands.

I just he's so just the first one I want to talk about was t J. Tampa. Okay, why do you like him?

And you're pretty high on him because I had him him at him at forty five, So I like him a lot.

The Knicks coming of Antioine Winfield Senior, he feels like tweezy will I know.

But can he to me? He's not scheme agnostic necessarily like he is. He's big. I think he's six one and a half six to two tennis.

Yeah.

I love how he hits, Love how he plays that cover three like Seattle coverage. You know what I'm saying.

Yeah, he's got he's got really long arms, right, and he uses that length to be disruptive even if he can get behind a little bit and doesn't have the best recovery speed.

Yeah.

Right, But I think he has really nice movement for his size, and he's really he's willing to mix in, like he's.

A willing player. I can see him playing some safety too later on in his career.

It's kind of what I got to.

Yeah.

I like him as a player, but I that's one of this that's one of those ones where like he could be the sixtieth player on someone's board, yeah, and like the twenty fifth yeah, because schematically he's not going to be for every everybody.

I do have some negatives, like the negatives I marked down or the cons that can be worked through, is it looks like every now and then he can get turned around a little bit lost and they played lots of his own coverage, so he for me to figure out me play it was hard.

I think I think you can play moddle to see him at the Cedar Bowl for that exactly.

And it's okay for me to nickname Brandon, I mean Braidon Fist. Could I name him the King pen.

Kind of like a mist.

So the other thing about Bradon Fist is I like him a lot.

He's like one of my favorite players in the draft, but I have reservations about his ability to play consistent. Now yeah, yeah, because he's got short arms, he's not under he's not undersize, and so he's you know, he's hard.

You can't.

Though, like because my mar Mike was a little bit shorter, and you feel that on a down to down basis, Like I don't feel you know, you got you got a crazy long But I'm saying like it is a thing, and there are guys that can overcome it. But I don't know if I saw that, like Elijah Cantsey, twitchy kind of you know, jitterbug moves. He's fast and he plays hard, but like I feel like that's a pretty well that's his ceiling is is I don't know twenty what is it twenty one?

You had him?

I don't think it's happened pretty high. I have been pretty high. I think he's got a high floor. I would say. I know you're talking about like the arm length, but I just love the motor. I love that he's violent with his hands, Like these are the things I look at that I'm like, well, maybe he can overcome some.

Of these, That's what I'm saying.

And maybe like his if his ability to go hard and you know, and get a lot of effort, is that gonna be enough to overcome some of his physical limitation.

Yeah, I don't know.

I hope so.

But so then that risk that question, Zach asked, that's why for me, he's down in kind of that bottomish teer for me, you know, like in that thirty to thirty five range for me.

But I have questions about it. But again I don't disagree with your analysis. Yeah, want me to go real quick. Yeah, this is thirty five.

Zach Fraser from West Virginia the center, Darius Robinson defensive end from Missouri, Ricky pier Saw, Florida receiver him love him tested really well. Michael Pennick Junior thirty two, Cooper Dejen thirty one. I think of it more is a safety. That's why he's so high on my list. Lad mcconchney at thirty, Graham Barton the center guard tackle from Duke Chop Robinson twenty eight. This one hurt my soul a little bit. I didn't want to put him at high,

J C.

Latham twenty five, There twenty three if he gets in the right spot. I wanted to put Amarus Mims so high because when you watch his games, it looks like dude sleeping out there.

It looks like he's playing with a bunch of high school kids.

Twenty two.

He only played seven games.

But if you watch him against Ohio State last year, you watch against Alabama this year, Like, those are NFL players and he.

Just is like throwing them up and speeding them out.

I'm just like this, someone is going to fall in love with this dude. But the fact that only played seven games had to put him down here. And the next guy on my list is Olu Fashanu from Penn State. Interest kind of love it is low, but I'll tell you why. I don't know why why. So one thing about Forshano, I love the athlete. He's a tremendous athlete. One right, he was twenty But again, like I, I tear these a little differently. Like for me, like this is a guy that I would for sure draft, no

And when he gets an elite bull rusher, he has a hard time sting down the ball.

So I again love the athlete, love it, but I just those are questions that are gonna make it really And he's a young player. He's going to develop like right system, and he's a nerd for football from what I understand, But those are some questions that I'm like, So if you look at all those guys, right, Oliviashano, I think could be a home run. I think he could be a generational guy. But there's four significant questions. So Maryusmims, same thing, but he's only played seven football games.

Can he stay healthy? Right?

JC Latham? Can we get your motors started? And can it stay going for a whole game? And are you athletic enough and twitched up enough to vertical past at von Miller?

So that's why I love those guys.

But that's the that's what That's where like coaching is really going to have to play a big role in like getting trying to get Forashano's hips to go down. So because he's not getting blown away into a quarterback.

I want to talk about Mims real quick for a second. Have you brought him up yet? Zach?

Yeah?

I got him at twenty five?

And where did you have him?

All? Right?

So you can talk about him in a second, but I want to talk about Mims because I had him pretty far down comparatively, and it's because I just don't feel we have enough data points and we're just looking at like the measurements of a guy built in a lab.

Yeah that's good. Coaches and gms excited.

But this isn't a draft. But it's clean.

It's clean, sleek with a sheep. With him, I'll tell you right, no bad habits.

Even though he hasn't played a lot of games, he han't picked up bad habit. It's a clean slate protocol with him. And you cannot go into a gym and build.

Six, eight, three and fifty. I'm sorry that moves the way this guy moves.

And the one thing Logan said, the only problem I got with him, and that's why I got him higher, is can he stay healthy?

Like other than that, I'm sorry, I have to get him on my team by any means.

That's it.

So yeah, the one the one thing i'd say to you, as you know, like in terms of in the games you've watched, if you watch all seven games, there's not a lot of bad Like he has a great ability to kind of get this his feet separated vertically, you know, to get that vertical kit slut. He understands his relationship to the quarterback in pass pro. He uses his length well, he can sink, he can move in space, and he.

Can have the speed and he can hand the speed, the power power to speed, and he's so big.

And again, like when I say he's out to lunch, it looks like he's sleeping. It just looks like it's easy for him. And you know, Fred said this to me about corners, and I think the same thing is true for offensive lineman.

You want it.

You want pass pro specifically to look easy, and I think with with Mims it looks easy. And again he's raw, but man, there's a lot there. And again it's the same thing with Fashan, who like I like Fashan, who's tape.

Yeah, you're swinging for the fence here and you've got all He's got a nice swing.

Yeah.

And so that's what I'm saying, Like these to me are guys that I this is for me. It's twenty three to fifteen where I'm like, I like the athlete, I like the ability, but there's some questions about what they got going on.

So it's sort of similar to you know, I was looking it was writing the mock track money, which, by the way, check it out on Commanders Dot Common. And I was looking at Trevor Sikima's he had us getting Austin Booker out of Kansas. Now there's there's really one really good year for Austin Booker, but there's almost nothing.

Else on him. So it's a I thought it was under anyway.

Yeah, so, yeah, there's not a whole lot of film to look on, but the film is so freaking good, just like you have to take a chance on this guy. Same thing with the Mary Smails, like, yeah, there's not a whole lot out there, but I won't him, but you want him because the film that is out there is damn good.

Yeah, all right, all.

Right, so I love it.

Marriagemans. By the way, I was just, I was just My argument was just the data points.

It's a good talking point, but it's again it's like, that's the question. There's a reason he's not he's here, he's not top ten, right, Like, there's a reason he's down.

There top twenty, Logan, why don't you go you So I.

Got Adami Mitchell at twenty, I got Tyler Guidon at nineteen. I got JJ McCarthy at eighteen, I got Brian Thomas Junior from LSU. At seventeen, I got Jared Versu at sixteen, and Dallas Turner at fifteen. And then that's my kind of mid tier there that I've been established, and my top tier guy fourteen Terry and Arnold thirteen, Byron Murphy from Texas defensive tackle.

Twelve Lat too lat too or LAT two lat too, excuse me? And eleven brock Bowers from Georgia.

Nice, very nice, And what was that from twenty to twenty twenty to eleven?

Yea twenty eleven all right. At twenty, I got Tyler Guiden. I love him, damn dog. All right at nineteen Jackson Powells Johnson eighteen, Lati seventeen, JJ McCarthy sixteen.

Cooper Gen I am in love with this guy. I think he is. I think he's one of the best defensive playmakers in this draft.

Fifteen I got Jared Verse fourteen, Marius Mems thirteen, Queen Mitchell twelve, Byron Murphy eleven.

What's his name? F U A G A. Yeah, I ain't on a butcher butchered enough Dames.

All right, cool, I'll go in then you can go Zach. I have that twenty I have Cooper de Gene. We should definitely talk about it. We haven't talked about him on other pods. Nineteen is JJ McCarthy, eighteen quinnyon Mitchell, seventeen Jackson Powers Johnson, the best name in this class for it just fits. Look at him, You're like, yeah, that's your name.

He sounded like a chipping Dale.

Yeah.

Sixteen is Byron Murphy the second, the tackle from Texas, defensive tackle from Texas, Terry and Arnold, cornerback from Alabama, Jaden Daniels from LSU. I have at fourteen, Troy Fatanu from Washington, at thirteen, Dallas Turner from Alabama. And then I round this one out with Brian Thomas Junior, the wide receiver from LSU at eleven.

Wow, you feel very I'm high on him. I don't know aboutam dead high on him, but I'm high.

On so twenty Taly Geiden, then he got nineteen Jared Vers eighteen, Byron Murphy, seventeen, jad McCarthy sixteen, Jackson Powers Johnson another again, all time great name. Fifteen Terry and Arnold fourteen Troy Fatanu, thirteen Quinon Mitchell these last year, I kind of went back and forth on twelve Dallas Turner and then eleven layout to Lattu.

All right, yeah, I like it.

We have a lot of the same.

It's not surprised.

Yeah, this is like kind of the meat.

So A couple of things I want to touch on there is how did you guys make your decision on edge rusher? Who was the number one edge rusher, because that's one that I think people kind of go back and forth on. Mine was lat Too, followed by Dallas Turner than Jared First are fifteen sixteen so interchangeable basically, And then how did you guys make those.

Dallas Turner was my number one guy off of help alone health help alone. I think a lot too is the most talented. I think he's the longest. I think he has the most upside. But I think plug and play ready right now. Dallas Turner is ready to give you high level football.

Yeah, and I flip flopped it, but had the same reasonings as Fred, if that makes sense. Like I haven't even I haven't gotten the lat Too yet, but he's my top edg rusher. Dallas Turner is second. I would I think is the better player. That's why he's higher here, but I would not draft him over Dallas Turner, probably because of the health concern, but I think he's I think he's by far the best edge rusher.

Yeah.

I think I'm going on straight up talent. He has a full leoti lot has a full like a full arsenal.

And when you're able to get these premier, premier tackles in the NFL, you you're gonna need every single one of those tools in the toolbox.

And the key next out Because if I got Dallas Turner, who hasn't been used in all these pass mood that I could teach now, he becomes even more deadly win.

I think it's I think people overestimate how easy it is to teach someone pass rush.

Yeah.

So that's one of the things with Dallas Turner.

He's productive, but he's productive because he's a big, freaky athlete. You know, he's got thirty thirty four and a half inch arms. I think he had a forty inch vertical. He ran a four to four to seven in the combine,

And then he's Jared Verse.

I kind of feel the same way, like I like Jared versus lot great power, rusher, good, feel good instincts place hard. So he's so tight in the hips. I wonder if he'll be able to kind of turn the cone, turn the corner at the NFL level.

You guys watched Jean claud Van Damn movies.

Oh yeah, yes, I did.

Was it wasn't?

Yeah, yeah, that's what layout to you, lat too looks like to me is Jean Claude right when they just come in him and he just uses his hands and says, the guy just loses balance, it goes off. That's what it looks like with him. He's just his karate master almost. His hands are so good, his counters are so good. His and then he bends and moves so well that it's the only the only thing is the health risk.

It's just a nick in itself, that's the concerned part. But man, is he tow The other thing I.

Want to ask about real quick, there is Jaden Daniels safe, said Jason. Yeah, okay, so so and again like this, just to be clear, like it doesn't mean he's I want him to be drafted. I understand, but I don't. Just to be clear, I don't disagree with this. Like there's certain times when you see her here something and you're like, that's impossible. But I think when you talk about some of the nuance of Jade and Daniel, you can get here, but you can also get to two

Very very high ceiling, very high ceiling. I am scared of how low the floor could be for him. That's what I'm scared of. Why I'm scared of his frame and his running. I know there are counter arguments to it, so I'm afraid of injury with him because I've seen it before with quarterbacks built like him, especially here his I was trying to talk through this with Logan at one point. He has good arm strength, but it doesn't look like he like it doesn't look like he's zipping it.

If I was going to articulate it. He's got an, he's got excellent mechanics. He's got a very quick release, and he relies on the release more than.

The velocity, so he doesn't throw over the middle of the field as much.

Much. Wasn't x to you.

It wasn't asked to But I can be like, well that maybe that's.

Why, because well and also if you look at you, that's why.

What's the down there? And uh in l s what's his name? I forget his name, but they have iterations of the offense where they do throw over the middle field, so obviously they spoke to his skill set there.

Yes, also didn't didn't Lamar Jackson not throw to the middle of the field whenever he was you, no.

No, they was. He was an approach.

He ran a pro style offense at he.

Went a PROWN office. Now he go to differ between Jayson Danis and Lamar Jackson. Both of these guys can get to running wise, get to zero to one hundred. Yes, the one thing about Lamar he can stop. The one thing about Jaye danis he has a little bit on G three and them where it takes them four or five steps to stop. So if you look at any of those bast tackles he gets, it is because he

That scares me.

Yeah, so this is nippicking what I'm doing. I'm nitpicking because his ceiling is way up there and at number two overall, if Washington decides to take them, I'm thrilled because the Grand Slam is that I can see it. I can see it happening. But I can also see these other things that make me go that the players ahead of them, I don't feel have as low as Florence.

That's all Jackson. This is come. I say, it's more Lamar Griffin than it is Lamar Jackson.

I think he throws the better than I think he throws better than RG three. But yeah, the the other thing I'd say there the thing that gets me with him is the throws over the millfield and just they're not there like that really makes me super super.

Nervous splitting the NFL. Hell yeah, all right, so let's go.

What do we got? We're going ten two, yeah.

One, ten to six.

We're gonna save the top five to six.

I thought I jumped the gun just.

Producing it here is try and keep their listeners engaged a.

Little very now.

So ten to six, Yeah, who's going?

I can go?

All right?

Talisa Futaga from Oregon State. Sorry, Drake May, this is where he falls at number nine, ol Fashanu, I'm very high on him from Penn State. Brock Bowers tight end from Georgia. This is where I had let Latu from U C l A. And then oh that's it. I'm stopping there, yep, stopping.

That's my next you go, all right?

So ten Talisa Fluaga got nine old Shanu eight, Drake May seven, Brock Bowers six, jayde Daniels.

That's not too bad, right, alright, A T and I got a joy for I guess this is for fun. At nine, I got Dallas Turner. I got Dallas Turner at nine. At eight, I got Brock Bowers one of the most elite with Busins draft.

It's seven, I have mister Jaydon Daniels. It's six. I have elit neighbors.

And I got Drake Mayott ten. I got Jayden and Daniels at nine, Troy Fatanu at eight. I got Quinjon Mitchell at seven.

That's high.

And I got Joe Alt at six.

So why are you so in love with Quinna and Mitchell.

So we went back and forth like him and Taron Ronold, and I kind of was like, oh, I think Tarron Ronold is like an excellent football player. He tackles well, he's got good field, he's got controllery, quickness. I don't know if he's got the horsepower to play outside corner, Like that's my question. Like when you watch his highlight tape, he's not jumping off, he's always he's often in trail and saved by bad throws. And so quinnyon like got to seem a senior le We got seem at the combine.

At the position.

So that's kind of how I feel about him. To me, that's why he's number one as opposed to Taron Arnold.

I got Cooper gen How did Arnold?

Yeah, so let's talk about Cooper de Gene because that's a guy that I have it. I have it thirty one. Yeah, I don't know where you have him, Jason.

I got him at sixteen.

Got a control you were in that you were in that area.

Yeah, I got him at sixteen. And listen in because the color.

He has a lot of adjacency horn in him, but he also has a lot of just electric Like first of all, he ran the one hundred. People do't understand he's a.

Trecks just a good athlete play basketball.

Like three star guy.

He I could always tell when the athlete got his his hand on the post of sports. This dude is a football player. This dude, I can see this dude playing fourteen years in the League, Pro Bowl, might be a Hall of Fame, and he get to the White team, where I put him safety or corner, I put him in both. I play him everywhere I play him. I play him the same way you play the honey Badger.

Okay, I will play him.

The same way as Tying Matthews. Sometime he'll be in a nickel, Sometime he'll be in the middle of field. Sometime he'll be outside checking the tight end with im. I need him to be He's my joker.

Interesting.

That's how I view him too. I just don't. I just don't view his value as like I think it's high as high because I think he's.

A good I agree. I think he's good football player. Think he tackles well. I think he's got good instincts. There's a little bit lacking in his like clicking clicking clothes ability. You know, he gets a little bit gummed up with his hip. So so I think moving inside it's gonna be a better move for him. And I think at I think at thirty one, I think he's a heck of a football player. You know, I think

He did that at.

Iowa played linebacker. Yeah, yeah, And I just worry about it.

Just the thing that gets me, like if he came out this is so dumb, but if he came out and ran and jumped, well, I would have him in the top twenty, which is no, he'll run and jump with but he hasn't done it, and on film, I don't. In film, I'm not. I have questions about it. And if I had the GPS data, i'd probably feel differently.

Yeah, and that's hard for me.

Player for me, Like, I do definitely see all the versatility in but like I would like him to start out having like a home first, like whether it's like, you know he can, he can play safety and plays those parts. I liked him to have a majority of like one spot, just so he can because you know, it's not it's not easy to learn all those different

I think, I think think of him as a faster version of Andreo Row.

Yeah, but I mean, like that's the thing. Is he a faster version of Anshove? I think I know that play with this, but for me and I just needed I wanted to see him run.

He hasn't run yet.

I think he's gonna have a private workout in April sometime. Yeah, but until then, he's gonna be kind of in that twenty five to thirty five range. For me, again, if Washington drafted him, I'm doing backflips. I think he's an awesome football player, it's just value.

Top five Logan top five Talisi Fuaga, number five Tag from Morgan State, and that kind of ends my like second tier there and then my top tier, no surprise, And these guys could go in any order. This is just the order that I did it.

Number four of Elite Neighbors, three Roma Dunze from U dub Marvin Harrison Junior, and then Dunt dunt dug Caleb Williams quarterback from USC number one.

So five Romadunz, four, Joe Alt three Milite Neighbors, two Marvin Harrison Junior, and surprisingly to literally everybody in the world, Kady Williams.

Yeah, Rama Dunesay is five for me and Elik Neighbors is four and they are very close to me, like Razor thin. I could switch them back and forth. Three is Joe aught, two is Harrison Junior, and one Caleb Williams.

We are not so different you and I guys at five, I got mister Drake May at four, Joe I at three, Rome Doomsday, I love you, dude, Marvin Harrison Junior at two, Kayler Williams at one on your list, where.

On my list he was in the last section, Yeah, yeah, he was number six for me.

So why did you have him below May, and because I think Drake May is going to be way better than people think he is. When I see Drake May, I see Josh Allen, I see a hybrid of UH Detroit's quarterback Herbert, I see something and I don't think people. I think people judge him so hard because North Carolina just wouldn't. I'll let it as a school. I just take you in, showed me the player, let me watch some film on him. I tell you, does it translates

Yeah. I think only My only concern with him is just like these there's inconsistent moments.

Oh, his bad moments are bay yeah, and that's fine.

Yeah, and every player has them, but he's just has come at weird times like when they probably shouldn't. And then again, the highs are really high, and it's part of the reason why I think he has the highest ceiling outside of Keller Williams, of any quarterback in the class because he throws the ball so aggressively. But those inconsistent moments scare me a little bit. I also wanted to ask you, two guys, Joe Alt's best sackle on the board, why I have Teleisi Fogg.

Obviously, for me, it kind of goes back to what we were saying about some of marius Men stuff like somebody just looks kind of like he's asleep and that is easy for him. I feel like that's a lot of the same stuff with Joe Aalt. Like he's just technically sound, He's very physical. I think his punch is great. I think he waits for his defense wind to come and get him.

In pass pressure.

I think he's he's very methodical in what he does. I think it's it's some of the most beautiful things.

So he's an vintite Notre Dame tech.

Yeah, when you when you draw up a no no to Dame tack and just put at on the back of his jersey. Because I have seen him before. I've seen him ten years ago, I seen him twenty years ago. It feels like Wisconsin Guard, like sometime you know what you're getting. I don't have to put a name on the back of the jersey. He feels Notre Dame tackle fifteen.

Wildly nasty. I think it's a good what they say.

Is religiously nasty, you know, because he's a good religious guy, so he religiously nasty.

And then Jason, he feels he feels like the safest bet at that position, like the Flora is the highest and he has a high ceiling as well. But like, even if he doesn't turn into the great prospect that you would want, drafted him to pace maker the Flora solo like Fred saying, we've seen this guy and we've seen it work. Yeah, he's so big, he's still young, he's very strong, and he just bullies people and he's nasty. There is a nasty side to him that I think

What everybody loves Marvin Harrison Junia and it's rightfully, So what is the gap between him and Rome and dudes David Yap Because to me, it ain't it ain't really no gap to me.

I'll start this off. I think Malik Neighbors and Rama Dunzay are very close, and they're actually pretty close to Marvin Harrison the more I think about it, because, like Joe aut the reason that Harrison I have so high as a receivers because I think it's floor is really really high. Yeah, I could see Rama Dunes being a better player.

I definitely think Molik Neighbors of those three has the highest ceiling of the other group.

Absolutely could yeah, absolutely, But the floor.

Who would you'all.

Comparison to elite Naghbors there? If you had to compare him to any former player player of Prayer playing.

Now, who would it be?

Because when I see Rome Doomday, I literally as much as I keep watching him, I see Jamar Chase and I feel like Jamar Chase is.

One of the best wide receivers in the league.

They body bill is the same, they run the same, almost the same speed, strong hands like when I watched when I watched Jamar Chay for the first time, the first thing I noticed was him just ripping the ball out there and nobody ever knocking the ball out of his hand. When I watched Doom Date. I see the same exac thing. So I say, Jamar Chase, when y'all see elite nables, what do y'all think?

What comes to mind with y'all? Because it's been hard for me to place him.

Like Odell Beckham's type of guy. I think with a little bit better yard like yard Jeffley catch, like he's got some real juice, and I think like he's got a competitive edge to him. I think the thing with a dude say that I always come back to is I don't he doesn't separate the same way like Jamar Chase did coming out of college. He doesn't have the same like diversity of rob training. That's not his fault,

Little bit more often.

It's kind of what I think. So they are really close.

But that's why I think like Molik neighbors to me, when I watch him, it's the yards after the catch.

It's the way he attacks the football, it's the way he can kind of there's something there. Now.

He's not a perfect prospect, which is why I think his floor is also very low. But I think those three guys are.

And in them shocked, which you because you'd like to cross your teens and that your ass.

Rome is a better blocker than elite.

He's great.

He's very block and that whole all. Every every receiver from me, dub is very excellent. But again, like that's where it me schematically, like where do you go? Like are you going to San Francisco? Like just hypothetically where you have to block Miami and we can find you a spot, like we can get you open on play action stuff.

You don't have to be the best like.

Hey, yeah, hey, hey, like go win this one on one, Like just be bigger, stronger, faster, like go be Mike Evans out there. So I do think there is something to that for sure. But yeah, I think like the that's why they're in my top group is like if any one of them was on my team, I'd be super stoked. And I think they're all fairly close and like Kayleb Williams is in their more quarterback. I want to just touch on the Joe All thing real quick

That is nice.

Sorry, Zach, and I would I would say that, like, I don't have the nuances of the position that you guys do to be able to break it down like this, but I would say that as athletic as he is, as young as he is, and then any use to play tight end point and then they moved him, Like I feel confident he's coachable and I feel confident he could learn this and it is if it is a flaw, right, which I'm trusting you, right, it's a flaw because I can't see that stuff that I'm I'm betting on his

Right.

But I guess, like to me, like when I when I first watched him, I was like, lay up easy, right, And then you see some of these holes. You talk to guys of the combine and they bring that up, you know, like unsolicited, like I'm not as high on them as other people, Like I like this player better.

And it wasn't Fuaga.

Some people said to Mariusmims, you know what I mean, Like there it's and it's again. I think it goes back to the point of.

This exercise that this player specifically is. It's flavor, it's style, it's what you value and what you think you can coach. Right, Like the guy I was talking, he said, I don't think I can coach physicality in the run game.

So who's he going to prioritize more. He's going to prioritize because Waga is going to eat you alive. Right, that's like his deal. You got penalties this year for being too too physical the run game. Some people say, I want guys that can vertical set. You're gonna prioritize various memps because we don't care about outsides on run.

So as someone who like I said, I'm a stickler for the technique, like I'm not as worried about the foty time degree. I don't think as much as you because it's I feel like that's just I'm more curious if that's just like a habit because of coaching.

If that's the case, then that should be it should be easy to fix.

But to me, the thing that got me was when he went to this, when he went to the combine and they do a drill where they have to vertical set it's.

A forty Remember, I think that's is that habit or that just because again I think.

It's more of the more and I'm not disagreeing. But when I watch the film with Floago, he can forty five, you can vertical, he can jump, and so in terms of floor, and that was the comment you guys made, I think has got to higher floor now in terms of ceiling, I don't think there's any argument. I think Joel has a higher ceiling, Okay, because I think for Waga, like he's got thirty three in Charms, he kind of

Yeah.

So, well it's three versus one, so we're right, you're wrong.

Yeah, that's all right. But I thought it was a good conversation. That'll know, it's a great conversation. That will probably change. That will probably change before the draft comes.

Yeah, it happens.

The more film you watch, the more opportunity you have to look.

It can probably change all all our lists could change tomorrow.

Just to be clear, it almost changed that this morning, just to be clear, almost change that.

I encourage our fans to make their own big boards here, like to go in right down. Yeah, compared to what we're doing, what others are doing, and yeah, it's a great exercise. Especially when all we do is talk about the quarterbacks. It like helps you kind of like slide figure out where exactly they line up with the rest of the talent in the draft is there are positions that can get overlooked.

But it also make your own big bulls shows you did. It's just not a lot of talent that.

There's well, there's not a lot of surefires.

When you started to go through it, you're like, Okay, how many dudes in this.

A three day gamble?

And I think the one thing that I come back with is like, there are talented things, but I think it's just important to identify the questions. Like Joe Walt is a great prospect, but I have questions about him. Woga is a great prospect, I have questions about him.

Yah.

It's like dating. Yeah, yeah, you find someone in there the questions are you okay with That's that? My wife she's perfect.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't get everybody.

You can't date everybody.

It is what it is, absolutely so I think that's going to do it for today. Thank you guys so much for joining the Ticket of the Draft podcast and make sure you tune in. Are we doing one next week? Is that we're doing We'll try We'll try to do one next week. Makes you tune in, Thanks guys.

That's it.

That's it