In today's episode of Tickets to the Draft Podcast, we talk JJ McCarthy why the wise is it just a smoke schien or is there something actually there? And we talk about the rattler. He's gaining momentum in the second or third round. What is his value there? We talk about our top five at every offensive position, and we have some very interesting research on the quarterback position. It could be the difference. It all starts right now. Welcome
to the Ticket of the Draft podcast. Pers there by Seekeeek the official primary ticket partner of the Washington Commanders. I'm Logan Pulson here with just a guy, Jason, and we as always are talking draft contact. But like with every draft, you can't escape the quarterback discussion. It's always there. Here it is done dun dug. Specifically, two issues, right, Jason, we're gonna talk about today. We're going to talk about two guys in particular.
JJ McCarthy and bencer Radd.
That's right.
These are names that, like, I don't know if they're gonna be linked to the Commanders. I mean there's some talk about JJ, but they're just names that are out there right now. They're the hot top to talk about it quarterback. It seems like the top three it consensus top three, Caleb may Daniels. They've been talked about enough, so now the media is switching into McCarthy and Rattler and trying to dive into them. So we're going to do that for I don't know, maybe the commanders take one of them.
Yeah, maybe we'll touch on it just in case. I think that's the thing. Man is like, like, let's start with McCarthy, I think, And you know, like the smoke stream thing, I think is interesting because there probably is an element of that. But all I know is that when I watched the film, and when I watch, like there's a cut up online, I forget who put it out there, but it's every one of his throws from Michigan, So all the good ones, all the bad ones, and
I just can't stop watching it. I think I sent it to you the other day. Right. It's it's one of those things where you see the timing, you see the anticipation, you see the arm talent, you see his ability to kind of manipulate defenses with his eyes, and that's stuff that I think is high level NFL quarterback stuff. Now, is he a sure fire thing. Absolutely not. Like he
has a hard time throwing to his left. He tends to overstride going that way, or when he's booting to his right, he consistently boots to his right as opposed to his left, so like he has a kind of a habit of doing that. Right. He doesn't know how to layer throws all the time. There's issues there. But when you watch, you say, man, it's it's not one to one because college is so different than the NFL.
But you see a lot of transferable throws, and you see a lot of transferable talent, and you see a guy that's more athletic than a lot of people think, and you see a guy that's more competitive I think than people think. And I think all of those factors to me kind of we're going to talk about our quarterback rankings here in a little bit, kind of pushing him up my board as a guy with a really low,
really high floor. You know, I think he gets in the right system, Like everyone's talking about him maybe going to Minnesota. That seems like the right kind of fit form. Right, He's going to run this kind of heavy play action offense. They're going to run the footba they're going to a lot of keepers where he's out of the pocket. Using that athleticism. He adds a little bit of seasoning when it comes to kind of his ability to do the
quarterback RPO type stuff. I think that plays at the NFL level, but it kind of makes sense to me. I don't know where you fall out, though, Jason, like, how do you feel about it?
Well?
I feel like you said something on our last episode when you talk with some PFF guys, specifically with Sam Munson, that they even called out on their show, The PFF NFL Show. They were like, oh, Logan Paulson made a great point about JJ McCarthy, and you did, and it was that while it's not a perfect one to one, you get more one to one tape with McCarthy than any of the other quarterbacks because they run that pro
style offense. They run the mesh concepts and whatnot, so you actually see it happening more than you see with the other quarterbacks. So it's easier to be like, oh, I feel good about that because I'm seeing it with my eyeballs.
I'm not projecting it.
And it's not even really like it's not even the concept. It's like the style. It's like how they run it, because a lot of people will run mesh, they'll run like a dig and it clearly run dagger is what I call it. But it's how he throws it. It's like on time, it's on rhythm. It's the these tight windows. He's like putting it in between defenders. He's throwing with anticipation, and so I think stylistically it also feels right too, because you're getting the you're getting the NFL concept, which
a lot of teams run college concept NFL concept. There's a lot of crossover there, but you're getting the concept crossover, but you're also you're getting an execution crossover, which to me it's like, oh, this is this is a Sunday throw. And I just find myself with him saying that all the time, and I think that it kind of makes you fall in love with it because the projection becomes that much easier. Because does that makes sense?
Yeah, And you're always talking about what you want to do in the draft, as most gms, what they're trying to do in a draft is risk aversion, right, So if I can see it, then I would rather In some instance there's there's something pulling at them. I would rather take that than the projection. When this end, well maybe he can do it. So that's why I think McCarthy's kind of moving up these boards because gms and scouts are looking at going like, oh well, I feel
more comfortable in my evaluation being correct here. There's less risk with JJ McCarthy. Now does that mean the ceilings is high?
I don't know.
But so my question, I want to go back for a second about the smoke screen idea. Oh yeah, so once players have or gms have this evaluation on JJ McCarthy, why would a smoke screen come in? Like why would Washington do that? What's the are other teams doing that? Do you think that this is like a couple of teams I don't want to say like getting together and like oh we're going to do this, but like a couple of teams at want quarterbacks all saying well, let's
all say JJ McCarthy. Maybe that throws someone off the scent that Drake may may then fall to us, right, so maybe like maybe the Giants right would be like Drake may falls to the Giants, like they'd be super thrilled.
Yeah, So I think with the smoke screen thing. I think if you so. For example, I think if you pulled everyone in the NFL, I think you'd probably have you know, most people would say Caleb Williams is one, but then the two three, four guys probably get a little bit mixed up depending on who you talk to, because you talk to somebody and they'll say may Is you know, he's a bomb, He's the next brock Asswiler. Right. I don't feel that way, but like, there are people
that you can find they would say that, right. Or you know, JJ McCarthy's the you know, he's the most polished quarterback prospect since Andrew Luck. Like, I don't agree with that either, but you hear people that say that, right. So I think if there's three guys in the mix, and one of those one of those other teams, let's just take Minnesota because they're like the most likely trade up category. Right. Let's say let's say JJ is my number one guy, and now all of a sudden, Washington's
talking about them at two. Maybe that sweetens the trade offer for Washington because that's their guy. Right, So let me just said, hey, you know, we know other teams might like this guy. We're all so interested in them. Now, what are you gonna do if you want one of these three guys? You want to ensure you get these three guys. We are the person you have to deal with, right, because you're you're not gonna be able to deal with
just New England. You're not gonna be able to deal with just Arizona, because we might actually take the guy that you want.
So I'm a younger brother. I have two older brothers, okay, right, and back in the day, we used to go to Blockbuster Video thrun a.
Movie referenced by you excellent, and my.
Brothers would go up and I would say, oh, I want to rent. We each got the rent one movie. And I go up and I say I want I want Jurassic Park. And my older brother would be like, no, I want Jurassic Park. Get out of here, pick a different movie. This is my movie. I'll watch it when I want with my friends. You're not invited. And it was very much of like this kind of bullying right to get me. It just made me want Dress Park more and more and more and more and more. Right,
And then I would go complain in my mind. Now, obviously I'm a child, but I think this is kind of the same thing, right, like you like you were saying Minnesota, Oh, well, we kind of like JJ McCarthy and then the Big Brother and the room the commanders are like, well we like them, right, So if you really want them, you may have to talk to us.
Yeah, you may have to talk to us.
And if we're nice about it, right, and you know, being nice about it means give me three first round picks, right, you know something like that.
So yeah, that's what I think. That's what the point of the smoke screen stuff is. Now.
I don't know if we're gonna take JJ McCarthy or not here. I mean, maybe we will, maybe we won't, But it like that's what some of these top teams are doing with him and why he's getting so much talk right now.
I think so. But I also think it's it's weird because I also think it's justified. And I think it depends on how you look at the process and agin we're gonna talk about our quarterback stuff later. But like Drake may probably has the highest ceiling of the next group of guys after Caleb Williams, right, extremely high ceiling, you know, Ella says like low floors is jayde and Daniel or High Floors is Jade Daniels and JJ McCarthy.
So if you're if you're an evaluator and that risk aversion is important to you and you don't have a plan for developing Drake May, necessarily you're going to lean towards those guys. So I don't think it's totally unrealistic and especially and this is one of those things that I wanted to bring up, like it's it's really frustrating for me as a talent evaluator because I've seen JJ Pennix and Nick's throw in person, but I haven't seen Jane danielsrow in person. And I have not seen Drake
maythrown person. But I think of the guys that I've seen, Jane and Daniel or not je JJ McCarthy has the best arm outside of Joe Milton that I've seen, right, And so I'm as far as our strength arm strength, So I'm like really high on his arm talent, But would i be higher on the other guy's arm talent
if I'd seen them throw in person? So it's one of those things where it's like it's there's there's levels to this, right, So I think I'm actually higher on JJ's arm talent, and I think he's got more upside. But it's it's it's all. It's all a matter of perspective and opinion, and I think that's where it's like.
So for me, these three guys, depending on who you talk to, you could probably get someone to say this is my guy, And all you need is one team or two teams to say JJ's the second best quarterback. Because that not the opportunity to trade up becomes more real.
I guess I wonder if the response to this smoke screen with JJ and all these quarterback talks at the top is a team like Minnesota saying like, you know what, we're cool, we'll just take the Rattler. Yeah, the right, which is I think why he's getting a lot of push right now. There is a lot of talk about Spencer Ratler not going high, but teams being like, you know what, he's got enough traits second round, We're fine
with that, right. So with that, do you think that that's part of why Rattler's getting a little more talk around the around the NFL right now.
Honestly, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's probably why, I think, you know, once you realize that a lot of these quarterbacks are going to get pushed up a little bit. And it's interesting because the media is always super high on quarterbacks every day do the
draft stuff. They're always really high on quarterbacks, they push them up boards, and most often, outside of a couple exceptions, like it ends up falling kind of as it would have, you know, kind of before the draft type started going. So what I mean by that is JJ will probably go between eleven and fifteen, and then bow Nix will go, you know, twenty five to thirty five, and Michael Pennix
will go thirty five to forty. So but if that doesn't happen, like if all those guys get really pushed up the board, then I do think you're looking at like who's the best who can actually physically play the position from a trade standpoint, And the list outside of those guys is relatively short. And so that's why Rattler gets pushed up, right, because he's got these physical traits,
he's got this leadership quality. You know. I talked to the coach down at at his school and he was basically saying he's been great, you know, and I think, yeah, he has this reputation of you know, because of the Netflix stuff, but you know, I think he's grown out of that and he's and when you watch him at the Senior Bowl, he's he is very talented. He can move around, he's got a live arm, he's got different
arm angles, he's got different throws. And so you say, well, man, if if this is it, if if if, if all those other guys are gone, who can physically do it and become a starting quarterback in the NFL. Because we have that, We have that sheet that we that Google doc we work off of, and we literally have a column. I have a column and it says can they physically
play in the NFL. That's the head that's the header of the column, and it's yes or no. And once you get to quarterback, there becomes a lot of questions about arm talent, about physical size, and he's not a big guy, but he does have the arm talent to do it at the next level. I think that's why people get super excited about his opportunity at the next level.
We also I can't remember which time when Sikama from PFF was one, but he talked about Rattler with us, and he mentioned, you know, this guy gets pressured a lot South Carolina and so like more than anybody else. And he stayed calm, he stayed composed. Yeah, there were some like what are you doing throws, but when there's
four guys in your face, sometimes that happens. And the question was if he plays behind a good O line, what could this guy be because the arm talent is there, and I think that's the projection that some teams are looking at now is like, yeah, all right, so we may miss out on some of these top quarterbacks, but if we get a really solid wide receiver, if we get a really solid offensive lineman in the early first round, and in the second round we take Spencer Raller, we're
fine with that because we see the potential there. Now, he's short, like you said, I think he's only six foot, but his arm is live. What everybody is saying that's been around him is he is completely matured from that guy that was on the Netflix documentary and it looks like he's ready to lead a team.
He's a leader, and.
I think that's where you get in that like why he's getting why he's being valued is because there's not a lot of people that can play quarterback in the NFL. And if you think he can, right, let's take a shot on him and see what happens. And and like you said, maybe he doesn't have to start right away. Maybe he can sit for a couple of years. Maybe he's you know the guy up in Green Bay Love.
You know, he's not starting right away, They sit him for a couple of years and he becomes something special. Is it likely? I think probably not, But is it a possibility? Yes, And I think that's why people are talking about him.
Yeah. Absolutely, putting you on the spot.
What's the percentage chance that Washington trades Attitude or take somebody else at to not a quarterback and then later goes with a rattler or someone like him, I'd.
Say pretty low. I think, you know, as we kind of move towards the draft, it's becoming more clear based on some of the moves the teams made the conversation. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but I think, you know, we kind of knew this all along. We've talked about this a ton. They're the offer to for them to trade out would need to be huge, right, And if a team's not willing to present that offer to you, then we're going to stick and pick two.
I think kicking pick seems like what they're doing, and.
So i'd say that's probably ninety five like I was putting money out, like, that's ninety five percent probably going to happen. You get that ten percent where you trade back in the first round, maybe trade back up that seven percent, and then that three percent where you stick and pick a non quarterback and then draft Spencer Rattlers. Probably you know, it's weight one percent.
I want to put it past Peters in the front office here to pick up the phone. Oh right at number two, right, Like, I think that offer could potentially be out there, but it seems like it's going to be a stick and pick thing unless it looks like Minnesota would be the team.
Yeah, and I definitely think the offer. I think they've they've probably engaged with teams, they've probably heard different offers, but as of today, I don't think any offer has been big enough for them to move out of that spot because it's going to need to be like what the Bears got last year. It's going to need to be franchise changing, and our team's willing to be franchised changing for guys. As again, we're going to talk about our quarterback ranks in a little bit. That all have
question marks, you know, and I don't know. I don't know if they if you're going to get the same type of haul for that.
Yeah, we're going to do top fives of every offensive position. Next podcast will do every defense position. So yeah, we're going to do our top fives of quarterbacks here in a moment. But before we get there, I wanted to talk to you about a conversation you and I were having over text message this week, and that was for me, this whole process once football college football has stopped, I have I consistently forget how good some of these guys
are at game speed, right in the game. And specifically, I was talking with you about Jayden Daniels, who could very well go to the Commanders at number two, and he, like you said, I haven't seen him thrown in person. We've seen some of these other guys do that the post the post game process for the draft, so the Senior Bowl, the combines, the pro days. He hasn't stood out to me, but I go back and I watch his film and I'm like.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
So my question for you is, how do you remind yourself that this post game, all this all this leading right up to the draft, all this measurable stuff, all this throwing the ball without anybody in your face, and it's with the guy that you've thrown the ball to for four years. In some instances, how much do you say, Okay, all that looks great with JJ McCarthy for example, Right, but remember the game tape. Right, we gotta look back at the game tape and how it plays there.
How much do you weigh that?
And how much do you get caught up in this little pre draft process here.
I mean, obviously I haven't caught up a little bit of it with JJ, you know, because I've seen him a bunch. I think with Jay, and it's been relatively easy because like, the only event that I really would have wanted to see him at was the Senior Bowl, you know, just to see him throw in person and just see how he is. Like, maybe if he throws at the Combine, great, I don't really care. If he throws at a Senior Bowl should be fine. It was fine, And I think for me it's just about remembering who
the guys are, you know. So for like most of these guys, you have a pretty good understanding, especially the top guys's pretty good understanding of who they are and what they do. And I think with him, it's like, you know, what does he do well? He's got a great fundamentals, He's got a quick release, he has great deep ball accuracy. He sees the field, I think a little bit better than people think. He's a tremendous athlete.
Has anything about the process changed that for me? No, Like when I watch his pro day, I'm like, I think he I think in some ways I think his release might be better after seeing him just throw by himself. It's a little bit quicker, but I knew it was quick anyway. So like, that's who he's been. I think with a guy like JJ, it's different because I've been exposed tomorrow twenty two, I've watched more film. I've seen what type of athlete he is, and he didn't have
an opportunity to show that in college. It's the same thing with like Darius Robinson going to the Sea Bowl, right, he was playing a five technique kind of this run stopping defensive tax, defensive end, highbred, and all of a sudden he moves to the edge and you're like, holy cow, this guy's an absolute animal. He can actually win with power and has some pass roustability and you see something different.
So I think that's why with JJ, it moves up with Jade, and it kind of stays the same with Caleb, but kind of stays the same with Drake. It's been interesting to watch because again, like but because he's kind of regressed a little bit in my mind, and it regress sounds like a negative thing. It is. I still thinks he's probably again the highest ceiling of the non Caleb Williams is, but that's that's from the film. That's not from anything he's done in this process. And I
think that's true of all these guys. So it always goes back to the film. It always goes back to that opportunity. But yeah, I think like if you have a pretty good feel for who the player is, then the post strafts, the post season stuff doesn't doesn't matter as much unless it's changing the narrative on the guy. And I think JJ McCarthy is a is a pretty good example of that of that change.
Yeah, I completely agree. I mean this being the first time for me, I have to remind myself to go back and look at the tape.
I get caught up everything that's going on right now, which I do.
I've watched the same couple of videos over and over and over again because it's been a couple of weeks since I've seen it, and I need to go back and just refresh my memory of how good or how suspects some things were.
Get any given player.
All right, I did a whole research packet on quarterbacks, but let's save that for when we talk about the top five quarterbacks because we have we disagree a little bit, yep, And maybe we can look at this pack to see if it supports or refutes any of our arguments that we make there. All right, So what we're gonna do is we're gonna do top fives plus one. And what that is is we're going to go through every single
position on offense. We're going to group wide receiver and tight ends together as pass catchers just for brevity sake. I promise you you'll get a tight end segment in the future. But we're gonna do offensive line, running back, wide receiver, tight end, pass catchers, and then quarterbacks, and we're going to do our top rankings in that position. And then the plus one and the plus one means
just a guy we want to talk about. He may not be in the top five, top ten, he may not even be in the top twenty, as just a guy we want to mention because we don't talk about him enough and he sticks out to us. So it's that plus one two, Like when you go to a wedding, that plus one when you're looking for someone, it's like, does this person really match with the wedding. No, it's just a friend of mine that's helping me out, doesn't know a brider groom. He's just here or she's just
here whatever. All right, yeah, okay, so that's what we're doing. So let's start with all O line logan go five to one, Yeah, five.
Five to one. So I'm going Joe alt to Lasi Fuaga, Troy Fatano from Washington obviously, Tulisa Fauga's from Oregon State, Olufshano Penn State, and then Amarius Mims from Georgia at five for me.
Yeah, so you went one to five, which is fine, one to five, five it's fine, it's fine. I just don't want to confuse our listeners, all right. One for me is also Joe Alt, which surprised me by the way, because our pod we did with our top fifty.
Yeah, you did not have as number one, So that's interesting. I want to talk to you about that.
Uh oulu Fashanu for me at Penn State is number two to Leasy Fuaga from Oregon States three, Troy Fatanu Washington is four, and then Jackson Powers Johnson is five, and I'll defend that. I'll defend that we can do all right. So something that sticks out to me is you flipped Fuanga and it seems like in the last couple of weeks.
Why is that. I think it came down to Fooga's past protection. It wasn't anything that Joe did or Joe Alt's film did it just was it because you're splitting hairs? Really, So with Fuaga, like I like him a lot. I like watching him. I like his approach, I like his demeanor. I just worry that he's going to be a guard at the next level, you know, Like that's something that I keep coming back to him, Like I think he's got the twitchiness to be a good tackle, but is
he going to be an excellent guard? And so, like, I feel that's why it's still pretty high on my list, because I'm very confident that either he's going to be a good right tackle or an excellent guard, He's going to be a pro offensive lineman some capacity. It's just if you're looking for a tackle, like I think Joe Walt's a tackle, you know, I think he's a tackle through and through. I think that you know, we mentioned some inconsistencies about his technique to give me pause, about
his physical development, to give me pause. But I think ultimately, when you go back to the film, he's got a good feel for his relationship to the rusher. He's got a good play strength, he's got a nice kind of competitive edge to him. He's a very solid prospect with a good with a good ceiling. So I think that's kind of where I kind of came back. I was like, Man, can I really put a guy that I don't love his past protection mechanics ahead of a guy that's just
been incredibly solid throughout his career. And my answer was ultimately no, So.
Yeah, all right, So I don't want to argue for oluf Fashanu anymore. I feel like I do that all the time. I like oluf Fashanu at number two, like you have him a little further down.
At four four.
Yeah, and I get all your reasonings of why. I also was thinking the other day, I wonder if, like his power is not matching his athleticism. So I'm questioning him just a little little bit. But coming from Penn State, who has a really good strength and conditioning program there, like super good and every now and then, he just he can get overpowered.
For as big as he.
Is, I'm wondering if that's a mix between technique and maybe some strength issues here as well.
But he's so young. I just think he'll keep building there.
That's the thing I keep calling back to with him, though, it's like, yeah, I love the athlete. I like how he moves. He's competitive, you know, he's got those small hands. He's not like I kind of wonder if he's going to be like Anton Harrison, who's a good pro but
is kind of limited because he's not overly strong. Like when you watch like, I'm glad you put Jackson powers Johnson on here, because like there's no question to me when you watch Jackson Powers Johnson, the center from Oregon, that he is strong enough and physical enough to play at the NFL level. There's no question, no question, he's a good enough athlete. The reason he's not on my list is because he's not I don't think scheme agnostic. I think he can. I think he's a very specific
type of player. But is he is he an NFL offensive lineman that's going to be pretty good? Yes, It's just about what is the value of what he brings? I guess.
Yeah.
So let me talk about Jackson Powers Johnson for a second. Why he's at number five for me, which is pretty high for a center, And that's because I think it's just you know what you're getting with, right. If he were a tackle, Like, if he played tackle and he had the skill sets of tackle, he'd be one or two. But because he's a center, and like everything's about the center vision, I think that's why he falls because there's not really a whole lot I'm concerned about with him as an actual player.
He's just a bulldozer.
He moves people, he's mean, he's nasty, he's athletic for his build. So that's why I put him at five because if you're gonna you know what you're getting when you take him, and that's a good NFL player.
Yeah, And I think for me it's like, is he can he run the outside zone? I don't think he can. Like Creed Humphrey is a big guy like him, they're kind of built in a similar way. Creed is a little bit more hit flexible and like upper back flexible where he can kind of dip in and reach a nose. I know he did it at the Senior Bowl. He
looked pretty good doing it. I'm talking about Jackson powers Johnson. Yeah, but it's not consistently on hape and it could be because he's playing with some young guards that don't help him out in that area. But I just again like I think you could have you'll have teams that have him number one, or Zach Fraser from West Virginia because Zach Fraser is kind of that squirrelly, smaller center, very Jason Kelsey esque in terms of how he plays. Not
quite the same athlete, but but similar. And so I think you're gonna have guys that say, oh, I actually like this kid from West Virginia more and as opposed to Jack. So that's why he's not in my top five. But I think he's a good football player. I think he's going to play in the NFL for a long time. Yeah, it's just like, you know, I think he's got to go to a team like Baltimore that's gonna run a lot of gaps stuff and be very downhill and not ask him to get outside of his frame too much
in terms of he can do it. But I don't think you want him majoring in that kind of athletic movement type stuff.
Yeah, talk about Ameriusmims because that's a little bit of a contract there.
Yeah. So for me, I you know, I obviously JC Latham, You've got Tyler Geidener, guys that I wanted to put in here and I was thinking about putting in here. You know, Graant Barton was another guy that I thought about putting in here. And Graham Barton's film is excellent. I think he's probably more of a guard. That's why he's not on this list specifically. But Amarus Mims, like when you watch him, all the questions I have about
JC Latham's ability athletically, divertically passet are not there. The same thing with Geidon, Like the physicality that Guidon plays with, Like he's he's got a little bit of a baby deer to him in the sense that he's he's kind of bendy. He's strong, but he doesn't have this great anchor. And I want to look at a Marius Mims like he has. He's got that twitch to him, he's got the power to him. He's a tremendous athlete, he's got
the frame, he's young. And if you just look at the seven games, just watch those seven games, Like his film is the best of that group of people, but it's only seven games. So like I'm acknowledging that this is a little bit of a flyer here, and there are picks that are safer. I just look at his ceiling and I'm like, if you could get this guy, you know, between twenty five and third five or whatever,
you'd be doing backflips if he can stay healthy. And because the physical tools are there in a way that none of these other guys are. Like when you say, like, physically, who's the most ready to play tackle in the NFL, I think you're either saying him or Troy Fatana, Like like that kind of is what you're dealing with there. Yeah, but it's but he's hurt all the time. So if you if you, if you feel good that that's not an issue for him, then I think he's your guy.
So that's why I put him in there, just because I think that the physical talent the film. Again, it's only seven games, but he's playing Ohio State, he's playing Alabama, and he looks like he's the big It looks like you're watching high school football and you got the guy going D one and everybody else is just a normal high school player, which is very unusual to see. So
that talent, that frame, that ability is so unique. And I think if he gets in the right situation, like you're going to be like hell, he could end up being the best player in the class. Yeah, if he's healthy.
Yeah.
We we mentioned a couple of times like he's an Avenger. He's built like that kind of thing, and he kind of is right if you think about the Marvel movies, right, and when you first get Hawk, right, when he first becomes a Hawk, Bruce Banner, Yeah, a little a little out of control, doesn't quite know, but the physical tools are there. So the Avengers are like you know, what, we'll bring them on, we'll train them up, we'll learn to control the anger, right, control that stuff. But he's
just such a physical freak. He's got to be on the team. And that's what Amaruswims is like, he's he's a rale avenger. Yeah, and again like you could have the incredible Hawk on your team.
Yeah, And he's just it's good. It's it's very good. It's only seven games and so I can't I can't stress that enough. I understand what's happening here. But Gottley, he's a he's a he's a he's a good football player. And you also like to Patana, Let's talk about him real quick. He's he's your guy, right, you like him a lot?
Yeah, I like him a lot, But go ahead take so.
I just I just got to talk about him because lot people said he's gonna be a guard. I think he's gonna be a tackle. He's got the twitch, the athletic twitch that makes you think he could be special at the position, and I think that's something that that's why he's the third guy for me, ahead of all Lufashana.
He also has got a little bit of a better anchor he's just got a little bit of a nastiness, a more consistent physical to him and Oliano, So that's why he's ahead of Old of Fashana for me on my list.
Yeah, he's excellent in a run game, very aggressive, mean, yeah, yeah, I really like him a lot. We've talked about about him amount guys that we haven't talked about all that much. I'll start because yours is a little more obscure, and I haven't watched the guy that you're you're going to bring up here. So but I have Christian Hayes from Yukon. I think he just plays with a toughness. Yeah right, he's uh, he can get into that second level. He's aggressive, he's.
Got some.
It seems every now and then in past protection can get pushed around a little bit.
I'm glad you said that because I felt the same way. I think he at the Senior Bowl, very physical, physical in the run game, snappy, explosive out of his stance. But everyone you're like, what's this Like.
Yeah, exactly, why why are you getting shoved around a little bit? And I don't know the the techniques of the skill, the nuances and skills of the position to know, do you have any thoughts on him?
So, I think there's a couple of things, like sometimes I think he's a little high hipped. I think he bends well, but he's a little high hiped. He gets a little loose with his hands and when you're going and so that's something that's a little bit alarming to me. I know a lot of people have him as their number one guard, but for me, when you watch him, you're kind of like, this is going to be an issue unless you get with a really good technical offensive line coach.
All right, So I think it's coachable.
But I do think it is coachable, but you need to get the right guy to help him out. I think you need to help him understand like what he's doing. Also there's times where he's he's like over extending to get to certain positions, and I think just understanding like when you can put it all on the line and when you have to be a little bit more conservative I think will help him. And that comes with experience. So I like him, you know, in terms of competitive toughness,
like insanely high competitive toughness, like unbelievable. So he's a lot of fun to watch. I think he's going to be a good pro. Just about what does he become? Is he just kind of a you know, a C plus level starter for a long time, a guy you're looking to replace, or does he kind of mature from a technical standpoint and become a guy that you feel pretty good about, you know, long term for your team.
Gotcha?
All right?
Who's your plus one?
Roger the Party Roger Rosengardner from Washington. He plays right tackles. He plays opposite Troy Fatanu and I people have been talking about him, you know, kind of up and down. He's he's there's nothing specially, he's very vanilla. He's six ' five,
he's I think he's two ninety nine. He re did run a fast forty at the combin and the get of the fast forty to the combine kind of a weird build, and I was like, Oh, this guy, he's a little undersized, nothing special, thirty three in a quarter and an eighth inch arms, Like what does he actually do? And then when I watched the Michigan game, so the National Championship game, I was kind of blown away by him.
And you know, I'm always looking for guys that, you know, we kind of go through the same ten names at the top of the draft. Is there somebody kind of that sits right outside that that area that you feel like could be a starter in the NFL? And when I watched this film, I was like, yes. And the reason I felt that way is because he has tremendous recovery speed with his feet and he's got it excellent,
excellent dexterity and coordination to his body. And so when you look at high level tackles in the NFL, they're athletic like that. Either they're crazy big or they're crazy athletic. And I was just I couldn't get over Like there was a couple of times where the guy hits him with an inside move, he overseets it bad, he does a spin move himself, works his feet, looks like a basketball player out there, gets back in front of the guy, winds the pocket, Pennic steps around it, and just was
a tremendous place. So his ability to recover in those situations. Obviously you don't like the set originally because he's off the line, but the foot speed, the dexterity, and the ability to kind of get after guys a little bit right because he's so quick and explosive. He's able to get on guys really quickly and movement in the run game. He's got a little bit of an edge. Reminded me
a lot, honestly of Troy Fatanu. I think Troy Patana is a better, more physically gifted player, but in terms of foot speed, I just was like, this is the
twitch NFL starting caliber tackles have to their feet. And that's why I was just like, he's a guy that I could see here being in Washington, and I don't know if he's a left tackle at the NFL level, but a guy that if he's sitting there, I don't know if it's forty because I think it'd be good value at forty honestly after watching him, but a guy that could play for this team, no doubt in my mind.
All right, let's move on to running backs. Yep, Okay, running backs was actually pretty difficult for me.
This is this is really hard, Yeah.
Really hard, And we'll talk about why because we don't think any of these guys may go in the first round. But it seems like there's a lot of talent that's bunched up late second third rounders.
I think probably third to fourth, third, fourth, fifth round, that kind of area.
Yeah, yeah, I want to be surprised if a team like the Cowboys gets a little triggered back with running back and goes late in the second round.
But yeah, so here's what I have.
I have at number five, Ray Davis from Kentucky, Number four march On Lloyd from USC, three is Blake Corn from Michigan. Two Jonathan Brooks from Texas, and one is Jalen Right from Tennessee.
Who's here time?
Yeah. My top five is will Shipley from Clemson, Marshawn Lloyd from USC, Blake Koran from Michigan, Jalen Wright from Tennessee, and Trey Benson from Florida State.
All right, so let's talk about Marshaon Lloyd and Blake Blake korm because we both have them four to three.
Yeah, so I like them both. They're both good football players. Like they I think Marshawn Lloyd is explosive. I think he's got pass catching ability. I don't think he's elite in either one of those categories, but I think he's a really good football player. And I think he's a guy that if Washington said we're gonna draft running back in the fourth round to be kind of a third down rotational growth piece here for this team. I'd be like, great. I think that's just how I feel about him, you know.
And I think I kind of feel the same way about Blake Coorm. I think Blake Orm's got better down to down vision than Marshawn Lloyd. I think he cs NFL runs really well. He s his short air burst is great. I think he catches the football well. The problem is he's five to seven, he's not very big. So it's like, I think they're both good football players, and I think that's the issue with this class. It's like, if you have a role as a stat and you
see a vision for this player, you're gonna be okay. Yeah, It's just about making sure they gets to the right fit and they fit a need for you, I guess is what I'm saying.
Yeah.
I like Marshall Lloyd a lot. He look good at the Senior Bowl on his tape. I wonder if this is like the Caleb Williams effect, where the USC effect where it looks like every now and then he turns down just planning his foot and hitting a hole for trying to bounce outside.
To make a big play.
And I wonder if that's just usc being like, go for the home run every time, swing for the fence instead of just hey, let's grind out these three yards right here, just hit this hole really hard, whereas he I feel like it's the opposite with Blake Koram, where he has great vision, he's going to hit that hole, He's going to go run right where he's supposed to.
And that doesn't mean he.
Doesn't bounce from time to time, but he's he's going to hit that play as it's designed, as it's supposed to be run.
He's just not super.
Big, Yeah, And I just think there's a more consistency to Blake Orm's game, and that's why he's the what is he the third guy? He's the third guy as the post of the fourth guy, And the only thing that keeps him from being the number one guy is that he's a little bit small. Yeah, and had a little bit of a regression in twenty twenty three as a post twenty twenty two.
Yeah, my top guy in your number two is Jalen Wright.
You want to talk about him real quick?
Yeah, I mean I think like at this point in the drafts for running back specifically, I'm just looking for traits, right, and Jalen Wright is a trait of the traitiest guys. Right. He's like six I think he's five eight five. No, he's five to ten. He's two hundred and ten pounds. He has the most explosive runs in college football. Last year he has the highest yards per carry. Like he is a home run hitter. Like again, we talked about running back vision. I'm not sure it's always there for him.
They run a lot of trap, they run a lot of counter where he's like hitting a hole, and because of that offense in Tennessee, it's like really spread out, so like once he kind of clears that first level, like he's hitting his head on the goalpost. But I like that. I think he's pretty good in pass protection. And I think he doesn't catch the ball great, but I think you could kind of work that skill set with him and find an explosive guy for your offense.
It's kind of hit home runs, and I think when you look at Oh Gosh, I forget that I'm the guy. The name of the guy that was drafted by Baltimore last year, the little running back but having an explosive playmaker in your offense with that kind of speed is incredibly valuable. So that's why he's he's number two for me. And again I couldn't put up his number one because I wasn't sure if there was the volume of NFL runs.
But I think definitely a very good football player, guy that I'd be excited if the commands draft.
Yeah, it's his explosiveness, right, It's it's eye popping in some instances. He just he has He hits the whole hard. He runs super fast, he's got getaway speed. No one's going to catch him when he gets going. He has good hands, not great, but when he gets the ball in space, I forget about it. N it's really talented.
He's he's super young. He's and I think that that's what you were talking about a little bit with the negative there is that the super young is a good thing in the sense of like, well, he's young, not a lot of miles or is still coachable. But also there's not a lot as far as like you're saying, this NFL caliber run, he hasn't.
He just hasn't. He doesn't have a lot of tape on it.
He runs fast, right, Yeah, that's what he does big and he's pretty big. He's stout. But I like him. I think he's got again. To me, there's a little bit of a there's an opportunity there for him to be something more, to be a playmaker at the next level as he posts some of these other guys who I think like like with like Marshall Lloyd. I think he's going to be a good player. I don't think he's ever anything special. I think I think Jalen Wright has an opportunity to do that.
All right, And then you added number one, Tray Benson, who's not on my list. It's actually my number six. That's the only reason down on my list. So talk about explosiveness. This guy is explosive. So why is he number one for you? And I'll tell you why he's numbered six.
Yeah, So for me, he's because of the explosiveness quite honestly, Like when you look at when you look at what they do in Florida, a Florida state where he's the running back, obviously a lot of kind of messy runs, not really well blocked, and it's really muddy and murky.
He does take shots, he's not super shifty in the hole, but when he has a crease, like if it's an outside zone system like I think about Kyle Shanahan or you know, Mike McDaniels or Green Bay for example, like with with the floor up there, if they had him in that offense, he would be devastating because he's big, he gets sent hell fast, he's fearless when he's getting downhill,
and he does have the home run ability. And again I just look at like when you're looking at running back in the NFL, you're not looking for a guy to carry the load like Derek Henry. You're looking for a guy who has a role on your team. Yeah, and I think he has a role with those teams right now. And if you want to if you want an effective, explosive rushing attack, get an explosive runner, and he's he's that guy.
So so for I agree with everything you said. The reason he's number six is because of what you said, is that he to me, he relies so much on that athleticism that I don't know if the technique is right there, if the.
Visions fully can be coached up.
Though, Yeah, I mean I definitely maybe if you get him in a system, it's a little bit cleaner, you know, like Florida State it's it's muddy, very muddy. All that's
a good point. So if maybe you get him, and again, I this is where I'm kind of like, if I'm taking a running back, I want to be able to hit a home run, like I can get a third down past protecting back, Like I want a guy that's gonna hit on run, Like I didn't put your number, what is it Brooks on my Liston Brooks he would be another guy that would fit in this category because just because he's coming off the knee right, But the same type of deal, like I want a guy that
can hit home runs. I don't want to get on base with a running back. I want a guy that can be a productive playmaker in my office. And so obviously, like if you look at my list, it values that skill set.
So here's the difference between Jaleen Wright and Trey Benson to me is that Jalen Wright has all these things you're talking about.
Explosive, Uh.
Jalen Wright will strap up for pass protection and he will say, come on, come on, let's go, like he wants to mix it up there. And I went back and I looked at all passing plays from Tennessee and from Florida State to see the pass protection from them, because they don't always put those in the cutups for running backs. They just do their routes or their runs, right. So I went back and looked at all passing plays, and uh, yeah, Jalen Wright, not afraid, wants to mix it up, steps up Benson.
A little bit down. But I thought I thought he caught the ball better, which is yeah, I agree, one hundred I think, I agree, I think And this is where it gets kind of funny. It's like beauty's in the I of the beholder. I think he's a little bit bigger. I think he's a little bit faster. I think he catches the ball a little bit better. But you know, like there is there's issues with him. I'm just we're just both upside plays in terms of what you're seeing splitting hairs.
All these guys are very close. I'm real quickly going to do Ray Davis. He's just a bowling ball.
I love him.
I love him.
He's I think he's a better pass catcher and route runner than people want to give him.
Credit for because of his size.
But I think this guy could come in and be a rotational piece right away and be effective for a team.
The plus one for me, I couldn't help myself.
I know. I saw this one.
Yi Vaki, he's his safety from Utah, but man, his running tape is so good and I just I have to.
Bring him up whenever I can.
I would love to have him on a team as an athlete, a special teamer. He's going to be an awesome special teamer. Forever drafts him and then yeah, maybe he gets a carry or two at running back if you need it, and he'll do pretty good.
Yeah, he'll do pretty good. I like that pick. So for me, Will Shipley from Clemson. I'm a little high on him than most. I just saw a role for him.
Small. He seems small, small.
Skinny guy, but yeah, you can play like basically slot receiver. I think about mismatches with the running back spot. I want guys that can hit home runs. He kind of fits that. Mouli ran a four three to nine in his pro DA. He's explosive, catches the ball well, has some good power, and is a return specialist. So that's why he's on my list. And then my plus one is Braylen Allen from Wisconsin, and there's something to be said for having just a big dude who can get
downhill with good contact, balanced, decent vision. He's not going to hit home runs, but I think when you look at his volume, his career and his ability to stay healthy and his ability to just consistently pound the rock, like, there's something there, right and I and again, he's going to fill a specific role for you. He'll he'll kind of move the sticks. I think he elevates the offensive
line slightly. He's like a slower b rob to me, you know, like a less athletic be rob, maybe a little bit more power, but a guy that fills a very specific type of role and is unique because he's six to two and he's doing forty five and I think he catches the ball pretty well, so you know, kind of a unique guy there.
All right, we're moving on the pass catcher.
Sorry, this is where as a producer, I just had to like take a deep breath because I told you with these when we were setting this up, pick one through five plus a plus one, and you sent me a one through six with a plus three.
So let me just say this. So We're not going to go through all these guys, but I did. This is kind of an exercise to say, like, there are a lot of guys in this plot. I guy and I don't. And I was just looking at your top your top five, and the only person I would disagree with you on is the fifth one. So I just threw some other names in there. So if you read your top five.
All right, so my top five, you also didn't include the top of the consensus.
I didn't. I didn't include the top three. I just said because there's like a lot of guys, right, there's.
A lot of guys.
So here's here's my my top five. Five is Brock Bowers from Georgia. Yeah, four is Brian Thomas Junior, LSU three of Doomsay, two Leak Neighbors, and one Marvin Harrison Junior. So we're just going to for the purpose of this conversation, Marvin, here's some Leak Neighbors duns. They're pretty much the overwbings three. We've talked about them plenty before. We're gonna just say, Okay,
you guys are top three. You're over here, so we're gonna go Basically, you have an issue with me as brock Bowers.
No I saw Brian Thomas Judter brock Bowers. I agree with I agree with percent, and then I would say, like, it's the next guy. Right.
If the next guy you have.
Xavierly Get written down on this piece of paper, I think that that's your sixth guy. I think that's a little high for me. For the get I would probably it's only one higher than you. I know, No, I got it, No, I oh, I meant that should be xavier Worthy, type of Xavier Worthy. And then it last. So I have three guys that I would probably slot in there, just potentially above him. And again I like Xavierly get a lot. I think I think Ady Mitchell
Xavier Worthy or Lad McConkey. I think you you could twist my army the way and I would put that guy in that six spot.
So here's the thing. When you talked with again sam Munsen about this, right, he made a good point where all these guys are so good, they're so close together that when you go from five to ten, you're like, oh, this is my tenth best receiver. Well it really, on any gift day could be the fifth.
And that's true.
The reason I keep putting Lagette up as high as I do is because man, he just looks so good.
Every time I see him, he just looks really, really really good.
He's like in my next tier. He's on my sheet of paper. He's on this list of twelve people. So I like him a lot. And the point of this exercise is the top three guys are the top three guys, and like kind of however, whoever you talk to. I mean, it's kind of Marvin Harrison and then you know.
Neighbors and a doomsday back and forth.
But then then after that, it's pretty solid. And I think there's a lot of really good football players at the position this year.
So what's interesting about this that I want you to talk one is how Brock Bowers, a tight end, fits in with all these receivers.
Yeah, so why did you slot him.
Where you did, which is right behind Brian Thomas or as the fifth best pass catcher in this draft?
And do you think he'll go fifth? Do you think these guys are.
I think he might actually go ahead of Brian Thomas Jr. I think, and I can see an argument as to why. I think he's very polished, and so I think the thing that I have a hard time with Rock Bauers. Is he's six ' four, he's two forty. I want to say, is what he waited. I think he's a great athlete. I think he is a great feel for running routes creates separation as a football player. Johnny. My question is like he needs to go to a system that utilizes his skill set, that understands what he is.
Because he's not going to play a traditional inline Why he's going to be your move F And I don't think you feel good about him in run game matchups very well. Like I know he gets the comp to George Kittle because that's who he looks like once he catches the ball. But in line, I think he's willing. It's just like it's a mismatch. You know, he's he's going up against guys who are significantly bigger than him,
and so like, what do you do with him? Like I felt like Kyle Pitts was an easier evaluation because he could literally do anything. He can play Why he can play X, he can play F. I feel like Bauers isn't doesn't quite have the speed to play a true X receiver, and he's going to have his pro day coming up here with Themarus Mims at Georgia sometime in April. So we can get like a you know, reevaluation on this if he runs a four to four or whatever. But that's that's where I got a little
bit weird. It's like, what is his actual role? Is he a big slot? Is he a power slot. I think that's a good role for him, but I also don't think that kind of maximizes his ability in the run game. If he went to a place like LA where he's playing like a pseudo wide receiver, tightand hybrid, I think he'd be extremely valuable there. But again it's about fit for him and the offensive coordinator having a vision for how to maximize his skill set because he doesn't.
Because to me, if you want a power slot, there's also guys like Kean Coleman or Johnny Wilson, these big receivers you know, who have tremendous kind of acrobatic catching the football ability, and he doesn't quite have that. But he does other stuff well too. So like that's where like role and fit and function in the offense becomes really important. To me.
Let's talk about eighty or Ann and I Mitchell, Yeah night from Texas. Because I have him as my plus one, a guy I wanted to talk about. You have him as your number three or number five if you conclude the other guys in ye five. Yeah, so right behind brock.
Bowers, you have technically six.
Technically technically six, you're right.
Yeah, So let's talk about him.
Real quick because I have question marks about him. I do too, But why do you have him so high?
Though?
So I think the thing is, like, I we once saw him at this combine yep, and I thought he had a rough combine running routes. I don't think he looked good. And when you watch film, there's a you see a little bit more route running nuance, right, And I'm a guy that I do like to listen to the consensus a little bit, right, So right now I've kind of got that tethered to me as an anchor because even though he had a rough senior bowl, I
do think you see an explosive playmaker. I hear the comp to CD the Lamb a lot, and if that's the comp that's pretty. He's a little bit more explosive than that. I think he could be a true X. So I'm gonna push that value up a little bit. Do I see it all the time on film? No? But is the potential there for him to get there from a route running nuanced standpoint, from a vertical speed standpoint, yes, I think he needs again needs to get a good
coach to get him going. But I understand people saying like, oh, he and Brian Thomas are kind of in the same tier for them because they're big, they're fast, and they can run all the routes. And that's why I kind of I haven't as much as I want to move him down, I'm just like, stay the course, watch a little bit more film, let's see how the process develops.
So here's why he looks like Ceedee Lamb to me, right, and I do see that comparison. Other than they're built kind of the same, is that it seems like every now and then they have a hard time creating great separation someone you would expect from your number one receiver. But he still makes to play, He still makes to catch, which is Seedy Lamb's superpower. It doesn't matter if somebody's
draped all over him, he can get the ball. The issue is I'm curious if that's because ady Mitchell can't create that separation or if he's just a little bit lacks a daisical times, because that does show up.
It does show up, I do think. And also there was at the combine there were some ankle tightness stuff ability to sink in his hips, which again would affect his ability to separate. Again, that's the guy that I want to I want to. You know how you said you go back and watch the quarterbacks all the time. He's a guy that I'm gonna go back and watch
a bunch because I need. I don't have a great feel for him, and my inclination is to put him at like eleven or twelve, But there's so many people that are so high on him that I'm like, I got to do a little bit more work on this, yeah, just in case. But again, I think the athletic profiles there you do see some stuff from a STEM standpoint, they're like, Okay, I get what people are talking about.
I just don't know if I see it with enough regularity and enough kind of fair enough demonstrative ability to kind of be that high on him. But again I'm I'm reserving judgment on it.
All right.
I want you to talk about your guy who tight end, Jared Wiley from tc OH.
Yeah. I really like Jared Wiley. Obviously. He's a guy that I've worked with, I've met him, and I think the thing about him is when you watch him in twenty twenty two, he's crushing people in the run games, and then when you watch him in twenty twenty three, he's not doing that as much, but he's catching the football well. I think he has an adr touchdown versus Baylor, Right. He's kind of got this silky smooth, kind of tall
guy ability to kind of create separation. And I'm like, if you look at the guys who are getting paid in this free agency cycle, Kobe Parkinson, who was in Seattle, just signed with Carolina. I think he was on a three year, twenty million dollars deal. It's because he can block in line and work the seam of a defense, right, And I think Jared Wiley can do that, and he's way down a lot of people's lists. But when I talk to the NFL guys, they have him in like the top three most of the time. So I'm a
little confused as to why there's a departure there. And maybe it's because maybe it's because the the NFL media is not great at evaluating tight ends. I don't know, but I find that my tight end rankings tend to line up more with NFL teams as opposed to.
I wonder.
I'm just throwing this out there, see if it sticks. I wonder if it's because when we evaluate tight ends, right, and I get I kept myself doing this when I watch tight ends. Is that well, we want we want Travis Kelce, Yeah, right, we want that's what we're looking for. We want to Kyle Pitts. We want a game changer in that sense. We're high on brock Bowers because it's
the pass catcher first. And I wonder if like, well, there's only there's only four or five of those guys in the league, right, every other tight end has to play the tight end in the traditional sense, right, and that's.
What you were great at. You were great at that.
So he falls down maybe because he doesn't show these flashes that maybe some of these other tight ends do in the passing game.
Not that he doesn't, but it's different, but it's different because it's like, oh, well he's not Travis Kenny.
And I think that's why you see guys like sor not Shaud or Jatavian Jatavian Sanders from Texas getting pushed up boards. That's why I see brock powers really high. But I think it's important for fans to understand what that position. It's like, what is the role?
Yeah?
Right, is he going to be like? Because they do need a block, They need a pass protector, need to block. Even really good guys like Travis Kelsey's kind of the exception there. Yeah, George Kittle's excellent at it, Darren Waller's excellent at it. Even Mark Andrews gets after it a little bit, right, So I think like that's something that needs to be considered with those guys specifically. And like Rock Bowers is special because he's a special athlete, he
runs special routes. But Sanders, for example, is a guy that I'm a little bit on the fence about because like, can he be an elite pass catcher and not have to do that other stuff? And I don't think that's exactly the case.
So all right, here we go. We're time for the quarterbacks.
Quarterback it.
We made it the quarterbacks. We can't not talk about quarterbacks. This is interesting We're not going to spend too much time on it because we talk about them all the time, but I want to talk about how these are lining up, all right, So logan number five for me, I have b NIX for is JJ McCarthy, Three is Jade and Daniels, two Drake May, one Caleb Williams. This has really not moved much for me throughout this entire process. Looks like it shifted a little bit for you. Give me your top five.
Yeah, my top five is five is Bo Nicks from Oregon. For is Drake May from u NC, Three is JJ McCarthy from Michigan, Two is Jane Daniels from LSU, and one is Caleb Williams from USC.
Wait a minute, why is Drake May at number four?
Okay, so this is I'm glad you asked me that because to me, this is why I hate doing like one to ten lists, Because these three guys one, two, three, four, Jane Daniels, JJ McCarthy, Drake May are all in the same tier. So for me, they're the same. It just
depends on how you're looking at the individual prospects. So I've said this a couple of times on the show already, Drake May has the highest ceiling of this class, of this group of three of that made three guys, But I also think his floor is really low, Like when you look at how he handles, like some of his footwork fundamentals, some of the incanstisties throw on the.
Football, he drifts a little bit in the pocket for some.
Reason, he like finds pressure at weird times, like it's it's kind of these alarming things. But again and then you watch his big time throws and you're like, I like a lot. I like everything in here. This is great. Aiden Daniels, for example, is a guy that I think actually has a really high floor. I worry about his ceiling, right, But I think if I have said this on other shows, if he had to start a game today, I would feel the best of those three about him starting today.
And so maybe that's why I feel like the Commanders are not set up necessarily to have the quarterback sit for a long period of time because of their backup quarterback situation. And again that's not a knock on anybody here. That's just my personal opinion. They might feel differently about that, the Commanders, But I look at this and I say, if I just start someone to day. It's Jane Daniels because I think he's got a quick release. I think
he feels pressure relatively well. I think there's enough NFL throws on his tape, and I think the playmaking ability with his legs regulates defense for the first year or two that you feel pretty good about it. And then JJ we talked about again. I think very high floor. Not sure about his ceiling because I think you see a lot of NFL throws and I think there's a guy that's ready to handle the responsibilities of the NFL game. But if you want to hit a Grand Slam home
run is strake may. I also think there's an opportunity to strike out there.
So that's why I feel that, Yeah, you're a power hitter swinging for the fences. Maybe you strike out, but maybe you hit it four hundred and fifty feet. Okay, So I have Jade and Daniels at three. McCarthy is sneaking up there, and the reason I'm falling on Jade and Daniels, and I want to tell you why this is all right.
I did a bunch of research.
Let's do it.
I was talking to you in text message and I was about, you know, what makes me nervous about Jade and Daniels, and maybe I could be way off base. Here was that he only has that one big year. So how many guys have had a breakout senior season or last season in college then go to the NFL
and find success and what's the correlation? And you said to me, well, maybe games played matter matters, right, because maybe they have that breakout season because they have a lot of time right in college and they're getting better.
Right.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, that's basically you're saying. So you're like, look at that too. So here's what I found, all right, I went through all the way back to twenty twenty. I think it was maybe even a little further. I went all the way back that I could last five years, I think
it was. And I looked at who had quote unquote success in the NFL, how many games they played in college, and whether they had a breakout game, breakout season, or last year, and that's kind of what moved them up draft boards. So pick a name, right, Let's say Baker Mayfield. He had forty eight games in college. Yeah, okay, so
that's more than twenty five games. I made twenty five a marker because that means you played at least two seasons full seasons, and he had a single breakout season at the end of his senior year.
It was just a jump in town. Right.
Then you have a guy like let's say CJ. Stroud played in twenty five games, so two seasons, consistent, consistent.
High level play. Yep, all right, what's.
Another name that would be a good Joe Burrow is an outlier, right. What I found is he played twenty eight games games, he had a breakout season and success in the NFL. That's an outlier. And what I mean by that is the guys that have had breakout seasons even with starting two seasons or more in college, it still doesn't necessarily equate to success. Yes, correlation doesn't mean causas, but Joe Burrow is the exception.
Yeah. So the three names that have been successful right in the NFL are Baker Mayfield relatively, right, Jalen Hurts relatively, and then Joe Burrow. Of that category, you had breakout years, that breakout years, that had breakout years, that's right.
So you look at guys that had breakout years that like Malik Willis, Kenny Pickett, right, Jalen Hurts, But that took him a while to get to get to success.
I would say had success.
Grey Lance, Zach Wilson, right, Like these are Mac Jones, right, your names is like, Okay, they had a breakout here.
Here's here's the correlation.
That everyone's making with Jayde and Daniels is to Robert Griffin. Well, what did Robert Griffin do? He had a breakout year? Yeah, he played forty games with a breakout year. Jade and Daniels fifty five games a breakout year.
Yeah. No, I'm with you.
So that's why I keep falling on Jade and Daniel's I keep trying to find what it is because it's not always the tape. I'll go back and I'll look at the tape and he is dynamic. Yeah, but there's just something irking me right, Like it is this just a flash in the pan in college and I'm nervous about it.
If I was gonna say so with Jaydon Daniels again, like his career arc is so unique and it's so hard to kind of make ay and again like I think this is a really telling thing, but like this is what I would make an argument to tend to say why Jadon and Daniels doesn't fit this. So at Arizona he was Arizona State, he was fine, right, I think he had I think it was his sophomore year, played pretty well, six round pick. And then they have
the COVID year. Yeah, Arizona State explodes like everyone leaves
the program. It's crazy ghost. LSU has a pretty good year in twenty twenty two or whatever it is, twenty twenty eight year, so exposed in twenty twenty one, goes as an okay year in twenty twenty two, that has a great year in twenty twenty three and a crazy wos Eisman, right, And so what I would say is that adversity early coupled with the fact that last year he kind of had already projected from like a sixth round pick at Arizona State to a third or fourth
round pick at LSU last year to being a first round pick this year, shows a consistent progression. And then this is where I get really weird with quarterbacks. It's because you're evaluating like ten things at one time, Like it's the talent is the talent there? Yes, is the processing there maybe and you just kind of go through the list. The other thing I've heard about him from
multiple people is that he's an insane worker. So like, if you do draft him, he's not going to be a guy that's not going to He's not gonna he's not going to not make it because he's not working hard. And I think that's another thing about bringing his flora. But I agree, I think there's a lot of stuff there. But I think if you look, if you if you look at the other thing, consistently high level of play. The names are there are really interesting too, just if
you read through them real quick. Yes, there's the Russell Wilson's, the Bryce Young's, the c. J. Stroud, the Trevor Lawrence, justin Herbert kellen Mond. Obviously there's out lout.
There's exceptions the exception, right, But you want from just doing the research, it looks like you want at least two seasons in college of consistent play. That's what it looks like. There's a correlation, not a causation, but a correliation. And of the top four quarterbacks that we talk about in this drab Williams, may Daniels, McCarthy, Williams May and McCarthy all have played at least two seasons of college
football at a high level. Daniels sticks out he's played a lot of college football one big year, same thing with Bo Nicks, a lot of college football, more college football games than any other quarterback one big year, which is concerning.
No, I'm with you, and I think you talk to NFL evaluators, it's concerning. I think it's a concerning thing. It's like, why because everyone can get hot statistically, everyone can get hot for a season, right, It's like, can you maintain that level of success? And I'm totally with you, And again that's why this quarterback thing, quarterback evaluation is so challenging. And I think we've talked with this a
million times. Those three guys are in the same tier for me, right, those three players we just talked about.
Yep.
The situation that they go to and the plan of development for those guys is going to be the deciding thing. Like, really, it doesn't matter who comes to Washington of those three guys, Like, I'm fine with any of them, right, but what is the vision? How do they get him to progress? And there's obviously different models of getting that done, but that to me is the deciding factor and that's why the quarterback conversation is so so interesting I think this year.
Yeah, Now let me be clear, if Jaden Daniels comes to Washington, I will be stoked because he has talent the lore right, he is super talented. I love what I see And like I said, I went back and I watched the film and I was like, oh my gosh, I can see how this guy could be just a superstar. I'm just I'm just taking this other piece of information that I looked at.
That's it's important.
But there are all three, all four of these quarterbacks, are they any one of them could be really really good. You can see it. And I'm not a jade and Daniels cater. That's what I'm trying to say.
Like, I like him, all right, but I do think like when you watch the film, like if you're being objective, there are questions.
Like does there are questions with every guy.
But is his arm talent where it needs to? Like, there's questions about it. So I'm glad you brought that up. I think that's a really good exercise for sure.
All Right, that's our show.
We're going to do this next week, but with all the defensive side, and then we're going to get really close to the draft. We're coming up on that. We got a very big show for that the week of the draft, so make sure these guys stay tuned for that. That's all I'm going to say about it right now. It's a huge.
Self all right, thanks.
Is that it?
That's it.