On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we got draft talk. We're back, baby, and you know we're not getting ahead of ourselves. Mana's gotta go to the super Bowl. But we are talking draft. We're talking how to evaluate prospects, super high level things you can look for at.
Home right trust your eyes.
We're talking NFL threshold, why those are important, and maybe most importantly, we get into the weeds on every single position and here's one or two things you can look for that are essential. It all starts right now. Welcome into the Ticket to Draft Podcast. I'm Logan Paulson here with just a guy Jason and guys.
We are here. We're back. We're here to talk draft.
However, we're going to kind of like chill out today specifically because we're still playing competitive football.
The commanders are right, Ja.
Yeah, we're in there.
Yeah, we're in it. Jordan Daniels, where it is.
We're making a push for the playoffs, probably super Bowl. But just know we want to kind of touch base with you, guys. Make sure you understood that we're still going to go to the Senior Bowl, We're still going to the Combine. We're still going to give you all of our kind of top flight insight on the draft. We're gonna get the heavy hitters on here, Trevor Sikama, Field Yates, some big boy kind of draft analysts on here talk about their process.
That's all coming.
But again, we figured we're going to start the off season when the Commanders start the off season, which hopefully is after the Super Bowl.
Yeah, we just wanted to get an episode out just let you guys know that we are coming back again this year. We put out like close to thirty podcasts last year. Going through everything through this draft process, I love it. I became a huge fan of the process, really started grinding logan. You taught me so much and maybe appreciate football so much more. It doesn't hurt that I'm lucky enough to be in an organization or a part of an organization that has Adam Peters when and
Jaden Daniels coming through. So seeing like what the rookie class has done and watching their process and learning from just watching right, Like, I don't have any inside information whatsoever. I'm just watching what they're doing and it's it's crazy cool. I'm like, I want to learn how to do that.
Yeah, No, I think that's exactly right.
And I think it's it's funny like when the free agency process has been so successful, when the draft process has been so successful, you want to kind of kind of distill and pick things from that and say, this is why at work, this is things that we expect the team to do moving forward. And it's always fun.
The more in depth each year that we get with the draft, the more you learn about the process, the more you learn about, hey, I may be missed on this evaluation, or this is why this team missed on this evaluation, talking with people, having conversations, and so it's really just a fun time of year because it's a time for every team in the NFL to get better and hopefully if they're handling the process appropriately, everyone's getting better.
But every year someone screws something up, someone takes a you know, like a little bit of a swing out of fastball, and they miss it and onto the next year and they kind of have to live with those decisions, and some of them have long standing ramifications.
And it's just self scouting, right, that's kind of what you're talking about. Like, for me, that's what I loved this off season of this podcast is going back looking at how I scouted things like Okay, what did I miss? Why did I miss it? Can I is that an exception? Is that a rule? And just trying to learn so I can get better at this process. And I want to say that like we had a we were very lucky in that we had a lot of fans follow
this podcast, which was really humbling and awesome. I think it's a lot because of you, because you're so incredibly smart and talented. I have nothing to do with it. I'm just a guy. It's all Logan, and I just want people to know, like you need to like and subscribe this podcast because Logan is going to I mean, you get in the weeds more than I think, personally more than anybody else. I listened to all the draft podcasts. Maybe the PFF guys are right there because they they
get really into it with the stats. But having a former ten year veteran of the NFL talk about what it's like to be in the NFL, how you can see maybe those traits, whether they're physical, they're mental, they're technical. I think you have a step above almost in anybody else out there, and you if you want draft content, you need to put Logan balls in on whatever podcast he's won. I recommend this one, but you need to put him in your weekly cue.
Oh that's very nice for you.
And again, like it's cool to have a job where I get to do with this stuff and talk talk football and talk draft and talk about my passions and so yeah, I think we should probably dig in a little bit.
Yeah, let's do it.
The first thing we want to talk about is what can we expect from the Washington Commanders. And I think this is a really good one because last year we kind of saw this road map, this model of kind of saying, hey, you know, we're going to draft good football players, but who are captains? Team leaders? Good players in college have these leadership qualities, are self starters, And I think all of those things are extremely important and I expect to see a lot of those things transfer
over again. However, it's interesting to watch teams that have been part of long term building processes they still have those underlying tenants, you know, like the self starters, the the team captains. I think those are threads you'll see throughout. But I kind of wonder this year if they'll take a take some shots maybe in late rounds on guys with traits, like every once in a while you see.
The Philadelphia Eagles do this.
Last year, for example, they drafted Johnny Wilson, who is this you know, six seven, two hundred and forty pound wide receiver, you know, maybe not the best receiver, but has these tremendous traits. They still have their kind of model, but occasionally they'll take a flyer on someone who's exceptionally talented in a later round just to kind of give
it a shot and see if it works out. I wonder if you see some of that this year coming into the Yark because again, you've kind of established the foundation with all with this first class, with this first free agency group, and I wonder if that's something we'll see moving forward.
Do you how quickly do you think that teams are able to do that to like take swing from the heels in a sense, like a baseball term, just really go for the grand slam when like you use the analogy, last year, we're just trying to hit singles, ye, right, because that's what AH not a rebuild, but a recalibrate organization does. Just let's just get on base. We're a little bit and then we can start taking these big swings because we have a core in nucleus here that we believe in.
Yeah, And I think it's it's kind of it's managing that. So I think last year, everyone, every one of the decisions felt like we're getting on base, We're getting a connection with the athlete, we're getting connection with the organization.
We're having people who are, you know, good football players.
And I think the thing that sticks out to me is when I talk to people at the combine, when I talk to people are the Senior Bowl Scout specifically, they're like, you want five sure things.
Quote unquote, guys you feel really good about.
They fit the measurables, they their production is really good, they're good citizens, they're good people. And then you can take three guys that are maybe a little bit more risky. And that was the person I talked to was from like an established organization. I'm not going to reference the organization, but they were from a established group that the staff had been there for a long time, the coach had
been there for a long time. And I think, so you're always going to want that foundational, like like get on base type of guy, but every once in a while, you can take one where you're like, I don't see exactly what this is, but I see the athlete, I see the upside, I see the work ethic, and I see he's misused or miscast in college. I'm going to take a swing at this, and I think he's going to be something really special. I think a great example of that is like yeah ya Dabi for example, for
Tampa Bay, Like I remember doing his evaluation. He was playing this three four defensive end. He couldn't rush the pass or he's playing basically defensive tackle, and then somebody got it in my ear that he was going to maybe project a defensive end and you start thinking about it like that, You're like, oh my gosh, if that hits with his size, his speed, his power that he plays with, that could be a big, a huge, explosive
draft pick for them. And so there's a little bit of projection there, kind of probably more than you'd be comfortable with and like a normal like get on base type of pick. And if you look at it, this last year, he was like a top four pass rusher in the NFL in terms of pressure rate. So that's one where example, you take a guy in the third round there's a little bit more risk associated with it in terms of his developmental arc, but it works out in a big way for that organization.
So something that you're talking about there that I think is interesting and you don't have to be a fan of the Commanders listening to this podcast and get something out of it, because I think a lot of good organizations do this, And you reference it in the sense of like, we're not just taking sometimes a guy that's like everybody says, is good at football in college, right like we're we're looking we're looking at a specific skill set, how can it translate or a mentality and what I uh.
That's one of the things that the Commanders did a lot of last year in the last draft that hit for them is they were looking for a mentality. And when you do that, sometimes you're not drafting for need.
You draft this is where the best player available comes in, because an organization will sit there and they'll say, Okay, maybe this guy has a little more talent, like college stats were there he stood out, but maybe he doesn't have these intangibles quote unquote that fit within what we want of an organization, and so we'd rather take a guy with this mentality and one or two traits that we think will translate and mold them into something different than they were in college.
Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because again, you want you want the foundation, and that's something really hard is like there's players, like there's certain schools that have the reputation, Alabama being one of them of having kids that are they're they're kind of constantly chaperone, they're kind of forced to go to the workouts, they're forced to go to practice, there's someone that goes to class with them, and they're not great self starters because of the in the environment
that Nick Saban has developed and cultivated there. And Nick Saban's talked about that too, right, But there are guys like to your point, that are like, Hey, I'm going to get an extra lift in, I'm going to be early to practice, I'm going to stay late so i
can get my work done. And those are guys you really want to make sure you're betting on right because when you draft the player like that, with those kind of intangibles, the leadership qualities, the work ethic, they're going to continue to get better and ultimately, like the thing that's so hard about the draft and why everyone says it's a crapshoot and I'm not breaking any like revolutionary
ground here. For example, is that even though you get an athlete who's very, very skilled, the game from college to the NFL is different. And we talked about that on last year's show, And so how do I get a guy that's going to develop continue to grow in this environment? And it's those intangibles that really make that go. And I think you see that with guys like Mike Sanderstill, Joshan Newton, like watched their developmental arc Jaden Daniels over
the course of the year. They'd never stayed the same, they got better each and every week. We saw Mike sand Rossel get beat on this type of route, the next week he covers it up. Jade Daniels gets beat by this type of coverage. And that's again, the coaches are doing a great job supporting that athlete, but they have to have something kind of internally that motivates them to get better. And I think that's that's where like we're doing talent evaluational like on large part on our end,
but they're doing scouting. And the scouting is the thing that's the different thing there because it's what type of person is he? What type of pro is he going
to be? And that's where you really and one of the things that was so impressed last ye about Adam Peter is he did that I felt like so incredibly well finding a guy like Brandon Coleman who is kind of this guard tweetyer player, but looked at the measurables, looked at the athlete, talked to his coaches, and you're like, oh man, this guy could maybe be a starting left tackle the NFL. And so those are like that's where the magic sauce is made, is finding those kind of magic intangibles.
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a combination. Ultimately, when you put your quote unquote big board together at the end, who goes up at the top, Well, you want them to hit the intangibles. You want them to hit the evalue the ev ows that you do of just watching them, like the technical how they move, how their ball control, whatever that is. And then you want them to hit the things of like the combine stuff right the forty time, the bench press, like all these things is like you
combine them all up, mix them all together. Do you have the perfect creative Matt and create a player in.
There, absolutely, And I think that's something that is always so fun and it's so fun when you're watching, Like I consume a lot of draft content when I'm getting ready to do this show, and it's so funny to see how a good Senior Bowl or good Combine gets changes the narrative about.
A player because of these.
Like pre existing metrics that kind of support positional success. So that's something that's always fun to kind of keep an eye on, and something we're going to keep an eye on for sure over the course of the show. You know, we're gonna go to the Combine, gonna be the Senior Bowl, so we'll we have a front row seat to all that stuff, which is always a lot of fun and and give you the talent evaluation and
how they fit in these certain boxes. But again, if you're if you're really into the draft stuff, the best draft nerds I know are always able to find out little details about the player, right, Oh, the player X is Oh he goes and does soup kitchens on the weekend, and he does all this with his free time and a good guy and study's extra and you know has dinners at his house, brings the whole old line over whatever it is, and all that stuff is the is, the is, the is the finishing on the sauce that
really says this guy's going to make the jump to the next level.
Yeah, and they put that in like the reality of here in Washington. To me, what I remember of those two things that as I did evaluation process as we went, we didn't know was that Jaden there was talk he shows up he's a first one at LSU, right, he's the first one there. And then the VR training that they said he would do all the time using a VR headset and to learn defenses and work through that,
like just taking his preparation to another level. And like we don't when you're at the combine, when you're at the Senior Bowl, you don't see those things. You can only hear those things from the janitor at Melis or whatever when you talk to them. And so what I want to ask you, though, is let's move into the evaluation part of this, because this is the time where people are really starting to get into evaluating prospects, especially fans of other teams. Not to watch the commanders. Right now,
we're focused on the playoffs. But other teams, their fans are looking at the draft. They've already moved ahead. So let's talk about ways that they can evaluate players. And we're going to do that by me asking you how do you evaluate players? Because you're the expert here, so give me your high level thoughts. When you're watching a player, when you're watching a prospect, what are you looking at? First? The very first thing, The.
Very first thing.
I have a column in my spreadsheet, which you know that just simply says like yes or no, and it's a very binary thing. But it's like, can this person from a movement technical standpoint play at the NFL level?
And that becomes somewhat.
Suggestive, you know, as you go through the process, and it's suggestive based on my opinion. But basically, like when you're watching a guy. So I was watching the left tackle from Michigan, for example, and he's on nobody's radar right now, no one's talking about him. But I'm, you know, watching the running backs from Michigan, and I'm like, oh,
who's this left tackle? So I'm kind of going through his clips and I'm like, he's big, he's got a good anchor, he's got strong hands, he's got good feet, and so to me, even though no one's talking about him, he's a senior, he's a grad senior.
It's like he's a yes, right.
And then there's other guys on the list, Like there's a tackle from Rutgers, for example, who's big fella, and he's got a lot of hype around him, but when you watch him, he.
Just doesn't move quite right.
He can't set the bowl, he can't set his anchor very well. And you're like, that's a no, because that's a technical issue and an anatomical issue. Because of his length length and his torso length. They say he's never going to be able to play at the next level. And you take another example of the right tackle for Minnesota for example, and he is technically perfect, it's.
Excellent to watch.
He anders, sounds, had an anchor and says that to drive his feet, sink on contact, all these different things. But then you see a move in space and you're like, I don't know if he's athletic enough to be anything more than kind of a rotational backup. So that column is my first jumping off point.
And you're saying, like you're talking about some technical things, but you're saying you just you're not dissecting it technically, you're able to call it out because you've done this, yeah, for so long. But something just looks on.
It's just off, like the movement skills aren't right. They can't set a bull or like a receiver, they just look like that's a big thing that shows up. Maybe the number one thing in this column is just a lack of athleticism or a general stiffness that you just
got to be aware of that. And when you're looking when you're talking about athleticism, stiffness, all these they're kind of subjective, but you know, there's certain receivers where you watch them get out of break and they kind of get stuck at the top and it's because they're too stiff in the hips. Their ankles don't bend the right way, and they get a pass broken up and you're like, that could be a fatal flaw at the next level.
Or you get a big wide out they're six ' four, they're two twenty, and they can't quite run, so then you say no as a receiver, but maybe yes, it's a tight end or something like that. And I think that's where that column is and that's just the super high level stuff, right, And it does help when you're kind of distilling all this information. Like our goal, like last year we watched I want to say, two hundred and twenty five guys. This year, the goal is to
watch three hundred guys. And so when you're going through three hundred athletes, you need to get your list down. I think you hear about some teams going into the draft with a draft list of fifty athletes. It's fifty guys that they are targeting in the draft. That's essentially what I'm doing with that metric is like, yes, this guy can do it, No, this guy can't do it. And as the process goes, that does change for me.
But usually that I find that that first kind of knee jerk reaction is very It kind of sets the tone, right, and it's kind of like and oftentimes I go back and I check that yes, no, and I'm like, man, I was right about this six months ago, and I kind of talked myself out of it because of something else than I read.
Yeah, absolutely, So what's the next step then?
Yeah, So that's like kind of like a general movement assessment. And then there's also like an element of this next column in there, and this one's maybe more important is the compete toughness category, right, because what that does for me is it kind of informs.
Like, hey, this athlete. It shows a.
Willingness, a want to, a grit and usually not always, but usually that player is successful at the NFL level because it shows a passion and a hunger and a want to. And so what I'm talking about a great example, I've used this every year done the show, is like a receiver on a crack block.
Right.
A receiver gets in there, he's going to crack the safety. It's a big physical play. A lot of receivers they kind of take creative angles, they kind of dodge out of it. But when you see a dude put his mouthpiece in, getting a tight split and crack that guy, crack that safety on a block, tough, really physical play. I'm like that receiver. I don't know anything about him, but I know that he loves football because that's something
that the position does not want to do. They don't like that, and he's doing it at a really high level. And you look at receivers that have been successful that I'm not kidding Amina Saint Brown. That was something that I had in his avout was a yes on the toughness Jamison Williams because we're talking about Detroit, Like I remember watching He's a skinny, kind of frail guy. He played gunner on kick on punt, he was cracking on
run plays, he's blocking on screens. Those things are like, man, that's the type of athlete, the competitor that I want. And I think that toughness, that competitiveness again, it informs some of the scouting stuff that we don't get and that's why it's such an important metric.
So what are some things where like a general fan can just trust their eyes on they can look at it and they can say, Okay, I can see that this guy is doing this.
Yeah.
I think it depends on how much football you've watched, Like we were talking about this the other day, and for me, if you've watched a lot of ball, there are certain times you're like that doesn't look right. There's something wrong, and what is what's wrong about it?
I don't know.
I can't really put my finger on it, but trust that initial gut reaction. So for example, like when you're watching Will Campbell, like everything technically he's the tackle from LSU. Everything technically looks great, like he's in good position, he moves well. You're like, okay, this is all good. But then you watch a couple of pass pro reps. You're like, why is this hard for him? And the thing that jumps out to me is like, hey, there's maybe a
lack of length. There's maybe an issue with his ability to play tackle at the next level. Like trust those little moments where you're like, the foot speed's off, the hand placement's off, and that usually informs that yes, no, right, Just make a little note to yourself and say, hey, this is what we're doing.
We're okay with that.
And some of those things you may not like average you won't be able to, like, won't be able to technically see what it is, but just trust your eyes and the evaluation.
Yeah, trust your eyes.
And again, you depends on how much much football you watch, Like, I know you've watched a ton of football, and so there's certain things that you.
See where a receiver catches.
A ball and it doesn't look quite right, like why is he fighting the ball so much? Like what's going on there? Make a note of that. Trust that because again like are they a natural hands catcher, And you can get into technico he's tracking the ball wrong or a thumb should be up or his body positions like whatever. But if it looks weird, usually that's a pretty good indicator that they're not a great catcher of the fall. Now, there are exceptions like Terry McCormick Coorin kind of catches
the ball awkwardly. But then that's where you go to like an underlying metric and say, oh, actually it's not problematic for him because it never drops the ball, you know what I'm saying. So, like there are things like that where you got to kind of there are exceptions, but trust that initial first take I find.
So then why does the combine matter so much?
Right?
Because they're not playing football right and they're throwing routes on air and so all these things. When the combine is a big, big, big moment in the draft process forty times arm length, right bench press. If you're able to evaluate a player like you said and just trust your eyes and be able to say, okay, something doesn't look great, how can they then go to the combine and go, Okay, we're moving you up. Even if there's something a little bit off what's happening there.
Yeah.
So for example, like I think a really good example of this from a couple of years ago was Peter Skorronsky.
Right.
When you watch Peter Skoronski, like, there's something about his body, how it bends, how he sinks, and you're like, he's a good football player. But everyone's saying, are you going to play tackle? Are you going to play guard? Are you going to play center?
Like? What are you going to do in this space?
And then when you get to the combat and you got thirty two inch arms, like, it makes me really skeptical that you're going to be able to play a tackle to the next level, Like, it just makes me skeptical because the threshold there is usually thirty four inches for arm length, right, And why is that? Because defensive ends are bigger, they're taller, they're longer. Their minimum thresholds about thirty four inches, And you want your offensive tackle to be able to reach out and to the defensive
player before they can touch you. And it just helps you sink a bawl. In pass protection, it helps you kind of negotiate hand fighting, it helps you recover more. Imagine if I had, you know, like Dwan Jones, for example, from my house state a couple years. I got thirty six in charms. I've seen him in the NFL miss a punch, refit his hand because he's got an extra six inches of work here that the guy has.
To throw his move.
He can pull his hand back and then punch again because of that extra distance he's provided. You see it in MMA fights all the time.
Yeah, it's like a boxer.
It's one hundred percent right. So it is a it's a huge variable.
For offensive lineman. And then Peter Scrans's going to be a good pro, right, but he's going to be good prot guard. So if I if I'm a team making an investment in a tackle, which will tend to be harder to find, I'm going to look for somebody who kind of has more of those measurement qualities I'm looking for. I think, you know, we talked about Brandon Coleman like that was a great fine last year because I kind
of had him as a guard. But then when you look at the measurements, you're like, man, athletically, this is a profile that fits a tackle. He's got thirty five inch arms, he's six y four, he's three twenty, he runs a four to nine, he's got a ten yard split that's top ten percent in the NFL. And so if I'm going to take a shot on a guy in a third round, I'm going to take that shot
because he can go to tackle. If he fails at tackle, because he's got all these measurements, he easily transitions to guard. And I think that's something where that's why those measurements are so important. That receivers are another great example. There's a receiver you might love, right, He's like a nice shifty slot receiver. He's winning with explosiveness and speed, and then he goes to the combine and he jumps twenty eight inches and you're like, that's not very explosive. He
has a nine foot broad that's not very explosive. He runs a four seven forty. All of a sudden, all those explosive measurements you saw on film, you have to call in a question. You have to be like, is it worth taking a risk on a guy who's not actually that explosive and fast, who's winning with explosion in speed?
Right?
And I think that because there's so many college players, Yeah, so many teams, so many conferences that maybe this guy looks really explosives on Shilm, but it's because it's all real to everything that's going on around him. Right, Maybe the competition's not as high. He's not playing against potential NFL talent. You don't tend to see this with teams like LSU, Alabama, like all the because all these guys are going to the NFL, not all of them, but
this is NFL talent that's on the field. So you get a good idea that like, Okay, well they can make the transition up. You expect them to do certain things at the combine, whereas somebody like say Quinnon Mitchell last year from a smaller school comes out and it's like, okay, he dominated his competition in college. Come to the Combine and the Senior Bowl. Go one on one with lad McConkie. Right,
go to the combine. Show us what your measurements are so we don't think that our eyes are being tricked on us because we're watching everybody move slower. So when you're the when you're the fastest guy on a slow team, we want to know are you the fastest guy on a fast team?
Correct, And I think it's just it just kind of gives you, like a it just gives you a better understanding of the athlete and the player and what they can and can't do.
And I know, those those thresholds.
Everyone says, oh, like there's exceptions, right, But there's a reason there are exceptions. It's because most of the people fall into these bikes. Like, if you were to go around NFL, arm length for tackles is a really interesting one because it's almost across the board like thirty three and a half inches and up, Like, you're never going to find a tackle with thirty two inches, Like it's just too hard with the athleticism and speed of the
of the ed dressers in the NFL. Like, so if you get a guy that you really like an evaluation, but he's got thirty two inch arms, You're like, what is what is the likelihood that, even though he's a great athlete, that he's going to be super successful as a pass protector in the NFL? Probably not great, you know,
So I got to kind of factor that in. Now, there's other factors, like let's say he's got tremendous foot speed or tremendous size or tremendous, you know, balance and anchor, like those are things where we get more technical on the evaluation and you say, okay, I'm comfortable with that, but oftentimes like I'm not. You know, it just depends. It depends on the guy for sure, and maybe.
You're comfortable with that in a later round. So, right, that's where you start assigning the ground grades, because your first round talents generally fit check all these all these boxes, generally most of them. Where you're taking, like you said, you're taking swings at fastballs in the later rounds, you're betting on something like Okay, yeah he doesn't have this, but he has the toughness, he has to compete and
he has he said, the foot speed. So we're okay with and we're taking that shot in the fourth round.
And we have a plan for him, right, we have a plan for like his his trajectory in the organization. We can try and tackle, move to guard, maybe you can play center, right, all those things, and maybe we prefer him as a swing interior player. And that's there's value there too. And so that's the other thing too that I'm trying to incorporate into my draft grades this year.
Is like, even though I don't see this guy could ever be like a starting caliber player, Like, there's tremendous value to like Cornelius Lucas, right, a swing tackle that can play both sides and you don't really lose a like there's not a big drop off. So there's also that like Cornelius Lucas when you look at his evaluation, long arms, big guy developed a lot in the NFL, but the foot speed is a little bit lacking. But for his role perfect right, it fits exactly what you want.
He knows both spots, he covers you up in in a really nice way. So there's that element too. It's like what level of player do you expect this person to be? And for the top flight guys, the first second round guys in the NFL draft, like they should have certain qualities of this, certain of these physical traits that you're like, Okay, good lock, and that's why they're there. That's one of the reasons why they're there. In conjunction with the film they've put out.
Yeah, so let's get a little bit into the weeds list. Okay, I'm going to go through position groups and I want you to give me one or two things that are a little more technical, a little more detailed, that I want you to kind of teach me about and be like, all right, when you watch, for example, let's start with the O line. Since we're talking about when you watch o'lignman,
I want you to look at this. Here's a technical thing that you can look look at that not a lot of people pick up, but it's going to be a good evaluator to how they're going to be at the next level.
Yeah, so this is going to sound really, really nerdy. So number one thing for offensive line is foot speeds, slash, just general athleticism.
That's number one thing.
And that sounds crazy, But how do you track a linebacker at the second level? How do you get out on a screen? How do you pull? How do you cut off a backside three technique? Those kind of dynamic, explosive movements for the offensive line. I really value those
because they show an athletic ceiling. So like Josh Shimmons for Ohio State, I've only watched half of a game that he's played in, but he is so tremendously athletic that I'm like, he's like, he might be my best tackle in the class like even though he's coming off an injury, because of the athletic movement skills. That is like maybe the number one thing, because you want your Perna Suol, you want your Trent Williams, you want your
you know, Tristan Worfs. They have to have to essential to have those movement skills, right, would.
You say then that the O line, you're less concerned with their technical abilities, more concerned with their raw traits because just God only made so many guys like that.
That is a that is a huge element.
But the next element of it is so this first thing and the second second thing are like one A, one B. So the second thing for me is core like mid section strength, so like hips adductor's strength. So when someone collisions you, what does your body do? Like there are certain guys you watch them and they just kind of crumple or their legs get out from under them,
or they get elevated out of that spot. And there's other guys where their ribcage states attached to their pelvis, they lock in and they're just an excellent there's an excellent play strength there. So both of those things come together, right, So when you're looking at Tristan Wurf's he is that to a t he moves well, he's locked in his mid sex and super tag. You try to bull him, there's never like a disassociation between his hips and his
upper body. It's always locked in. Trent Williams, same thing in a school, same thing. So those two things are the offensive line. If I see both of those things, I'm like, there, you are a special, special athlete at the position. And I'm like that, even if you're technically not playing very well, I'm going to take a shot on you. So like, for example, let's take Evan Neil. He had a terrible disconnection of his chest and his hips right. You bull them and he'd kind of lose
it or he'd fall on the ground a lot. Bad foot speed, bad connection.
Right.
The guy who plays in Carolina now they're left tackle. I forget his name, but he had bad foot speed right. And so those are things for elite left tackles that I and right tackles that I'm like, these are the two things that I have to see.
Now.
You can sometimes compensate with arm lane for whatever, but those are the things that if I don't see those right away, I'm kind of like, eh, Like, I don't know where you're gonna fit. Swing guy, rotational guy, maybe a three year starter at some point in a pinch.
But that's what I'm looking at.
Let's jump to the other side of the ball and do defensive tackles and then spin off with edges because you're a little bit different when you're trying to evaluate. So when you're looking at a d tackle, let's start there first. What do you want to see?
So this is going to sound crazy, but I'm looking for athletes, and it's a different type of athlete than the offensive lineman.
Right. I want a guy who's really linearly explosive. Right.
You watch Mason Graham this year from Michigan. Man, he can pop you. He's got great hand usage, He's explosive from the hips. He can and take a base instead of double team. He can raise and lower his pads really well, and that's something I think is really valuable. Like his running mate, I forget number seventy eight, the defensive tackle that plays next to him, And as we go, I'll get better with the names as we get into the draft stuff more. He plays really high, kind of
gets pushed off the spot. He's a good player, but he doesn't have those elite traits the the explosion the hip the hip and the sink of the hips. So those are two things with the tackles. And then I'm going to add this other one in hand usage. Right, do they use their hands well? Because those guys I find that when they can use their hands can overcome some of those athletic deficiencies.
So give me an example of good hand usage. So technique.
Yeah, So, like for example, when you're looking for something like and you're and let's say a guy's getting a double team, right, his ability to take and put his hands directly on the best play of the guard, extend his elbows and sink his hips and stalemate the guard like that with length to then shed that block and make the tackle.
That's exactly what you're looking for.
That's like, if you you see that a couple of times, you see that consistency, you see that reaction, you're going to be pretty good. Like Jason last year had a lot of those right hands flash boom, we're going to pursue of the football, sink ki, all those types of things were on the table. And again that vertical penetration that explosiveness from that defensive tackle. Now, edge is a totally different ball of wax to me. You're looking for athlete, athlete, athlete,
athlete and production, like that's what you're looking for. And there's certain positions that have a really high correlation here. If you test well at the combine and you had ten saxon college, you're probably going to be pretty good in the NFL, Like, you're probably gonna be pretty.
What happens and we had this last year, I'm not going to say exactly who you have someone that tests off the charts, but no production.
That's something that always makes me a little bit nervous, right, I think you look at there's been a couple of guys that have hit from this, like Gray up in Green Bay is that his name? The number fifty two in Green Bay was like this. There's been people that have done this over the course of the NFL, and they do find a way after like three or four years to hit, right, So there is a little bit of a own way, there's a little bit of precedent. Is it worth taking a shot on? Yes, but you
have to understand that it's a developmental window. When you see the guy who's like a lot too. Last year, right, he tested fine and he was crazy productive in college, Like he will be fine. I think he had seven sacks this year. Like that was kind of right where I thought he'd be. I thought, maybe you get to ten. But there's a little bit of variance in sacks production. But that's exactly what you thought from him, right, Jared
Versus is a great example. Right, I was a little bit worried about the athlete, but the production was so good his entire time at Florida State. And you're like, I should have weighed that more, probably based on his athletic profile, which is great at the combine. So with that position, to me, it's one of the easier positions because it's like athlete production, check check, you're gonna be fine, right, all.
Right, let's stay on the defensive side here and go to linebacker. Probably you said last year at several times the hardest one for you to evaluate in some In some ways.
It's really hard because it's multi factorial. Right, you need to have a physicality, you need to have an intelligence. It's kind of like quarterback of the defense. I know that's like probably a stereotypic answer, but It's like quarterback for the defense, right. You have to know run fits, you have to get guys lined up, you have to show an intelligence, and you have to do a lot of stuff. And so for me, the number one that's gonna sound crazy, The number one thing for linebackers.
Is coverage skills.
You have to be able to cover because the way the NFL game is going, because that implies movement skills. Right, So if I can match up with the tight end and cover them and man and man situations, I'm gonna be on the field more. And you look at the guys who've been the best the last couple of years. Your Fred Warner's, your Luke Keikley's, your Levante David's, they
all have that coverage instinct. Now if you see that instinct, that coverage ability apply to a physicality also, oh man, you got yourself one, right.
And again, you kind of.
Hope that because of those two traits, they have that kind of killer instinct that wishing to play the position of middle linebacker at the NFL level.
Right.
But that's a hard one for me because I don't know. I haven't sat in a meeting with them, I haven't talked with them. I don't know they're but like I love when I see a linebacker that I like that has covered a tight end. He's fit a full back or he's fit a guard, and all of a sudden, you see you getting empty. The offense does and he makes an empty check because I'm like, oh, this guy's
locked in. Not every college linebacker does that, but when you see that, that's kind of like, Oh, that's a big that's a big plus for me.
What about defensive bats, Oh.
My gosh, defensive backs, it's hard, man, this is this. Linebackers are the hardest, but defensive backs, in my opinion, have the most variance because they're so scheme dependent. So that was one of the things about Quinny and Mitchell that was tough because like at Toledo, like he didn't do a lot of like man coverage, a lot of zone and so when I see a cornerback, I want to see him basically play man coverage, like that's what
I want to do. And it helps if you had zone instincts, but I need to see you kind of run, react, anticipate route concepts because it shows that you can do some stuff in z oonne I think a good example that was Sauce Gardner, like they had a man and man situations versus Alabama, Right, and you're like, Okay, this is good, this is good.
And the other thing.
About corners, I need to see them tackle. I need to see them be playman coverage and be physical as all outdoors. And people are like, why are they're corners? That is the position in the NFL where you have to tackle. Every run is being forced to you.
Yeah, you've said that multiple times. You've been in offenses where they say, yeah, our job is to get the running back on your dB.
Yeah.
And you know Fred and Fred Smoot and I differ in this. He's like, I want to see him cover their coverage players, but I've seen so many guys fail because they don't have that dog, that dog and him to come up and make a tackle. And so for me, it's man coverage and can you make a tackle in the run game?
Yeah, absolutely, it's It's definitely the hardest one. But this is also why the process, like the Combine's great, right, This is why the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl are good, right, because you get a player like quin Yon, who last year was a standout at the senior role because everybody wanted to see him against better competition and out of that zone. And when he was, he shined. Right then it's like, okay, that checks the box that I couldn't see on film, couldn't see in that evaluation.
Now I got it here all right. So DB's have to cover the wide receivers, and it seems like there is always a ton of good wide receivers coming out every year. So what are you looking for to differentiate a top round the first round, second round wide receiver and the guys who want to take flyers on maybe later rounds.
Yeah, so.
Flyers later are size speed guys for me, like take those guys later. If you're a like Slad McConkie, to me, is maybe perfect. Like last year, I remember turning on the film with Georgia and being like you will be a great NFL pro Like that was the first Like I watched five of his targets and was like, you got it? And so what is that it? It is
understanding of defensive leverages. How to get to a base like double stick or release break that DB's leverage like get to where you're not supposed to be in the defensive coverage, work your stems right, vertical stem, angled stem to you to set up your route to create space for yourself, and not everyone understands it. Not everyone gets it. And when you see that, it's like it's like big
flashing lights. You're like, yes, this is it, this is the one, and it's the reason you see you know, like DK metcalf kind of struggle like at times because he doesn't have that route running nuance. He's just horsepower and there's a time and place for that, right, But there's a reason there's like one Dk Metcalf right, and there's a bunch of guys like you know, Malik Neighbors or Lad McConkey or these guys that have these tremendous
route running nuance to their game. And so to me, if you can run fast and you have that ability like I am your best friend as a as a guy, and obviously catching the football, if you fight the football, I'm going to really watch a lot of film on you because I want to make sure you can catch the ball.
Yeah. I was actually going to say that a big one. Don't underestimate it, guy catches the ball. The other one I would say is like watch the routes where they don't get the ball or not. Is he running hard? Is he trying to work to get the other guy open? Is it like if it's a run play, is he running up to try and block? Like that's going to tell you how much they're going to That's the one too. That's good competitiveness. How you talked to earlier, that's really
going to play into it. Yeah, I think, all right, let's speed through these here. Running backs.
Yeah, running backs are interesting to me because it's hard, like because they're usually the best football player like in high school and so they're the best one of the better football players in college meeting. They can block, they can tackle. So for me, it's like I want to see the highway speed. Stuff's speed specifically for running back and then toughness and so what is toughness expressed?
As it's like do I pick up a blitz? Like?
How do I finish runs? Like how do I run short yardage? Do I step out of bounds when I don't have to? Or do I finish and punish the defender? Another one for me in running backs, it's big is just vision, Like I was watching a running back, the running back from.
Michigan or Edwards.
And if the hole wasn't there, the run wasn't there for him, then you watch a couple other guys and you're like, oh, there's a little crease here. I can put his foot in the ground and kind of sneak through here. Oh it's not blocked. Well, he's going to get skinny, cram his head in there. We've got a three yard gain on something that should have been a tackle for one, Right, how do you maximize the blocking surface?
And so highway speed is obviously a big deal, right, Dereck Henry's your sake one Barcleay's Christian McCaffrey to a certain extent, right, But the vision and the toughness for a back, vision and toughness.
Yeah, And man, I was going to say the same thing, logan to bounce off of that. Like one of the things I try and look at is does the running back bounce too early?
Right?
Is there a hole opening up? Just be a little patient or just hit this hole hard and you got a four yard run instead of I'm trying to bounce out and now everybody's conversion on me. It's a two yard loss because I just don't want to hit that hole right now, right, Like I just don't want to dive in there. So yeah, that goes right along with it, all right, this is your favorite. You were a tight end for ten years in the NFL. What are you
looking for from a tight end in college? And there are some good ones.
This one's frustrating for me because it's changed a lot since I started doing this, and so now it's like it's athletes, it's measurables, like this is a defensive line type of position, and so like I had a conversation with somebody at the Combat a couple of years ago about the last twenty starting tight ends. So this was
over a course, like a fifteen year period. All were like greens basically, which means they hit height, weight, speed, arm length metric all greens, right, And there's only been two starting players who have not met that metric who started over the last fifteen years.
I was one of them. I started a couple of games here right.
Look at you.
Yeah, So there for that position. If you do not hit the measurables, big red flag right away, right, because what do you do? What's your role? And I think there's a couple things here, right, You're looking for two different types of players. You're looking for that you know Lovelnd, that travel Kelsey guy and catch football be a mismatch weapon. That's one skill set. You're also looking for a guy that can block in line like a John Bates, and
both those things have value both teams need. Most teams in the NFL need both of those players. Obviously, the offensive line type guy, the John Baits type guy, is going to be bigger, heavier. You need to see a tremendous amount of technical proficiency and a tremendous amount of grit just toughness.
Do you see a combination of those often in tight end anymore where they're gonna block and they're gonna get open like how a Kelsey would or are teams out just going you know what I want? I want one that's more of a blocker, one that's more of a route runner.
Yeah, I would say, yeah, you're see a little and obviously you got to do both, like I think zach Ertz, to his credit this year, has done a great job of kind of embracing the blocking role a little bit. So with like Loveland, for example, he's like six ' five, I want to say he's like two forty three. It's not a big guy, but he's tough, like he'll throw his face in there, he'll block a defensive end. You don't want that matchup all the time, but he's tough enough to get that done.
You know what I'm saying.
He's physical enough to get that guy done. And then you got a guy like Warren from pen Sake. What's his first name is a ty Warn Tyler Warren Tyler Warren. Yeah, who can kind of do both. He's a little stiff in the hips and with tight ends. This is something that I have talked to probably fifteen tight end coach in the NFL. If you see stiffness in the hips or ankles, huge red flag, huge red flag for red coach for tight end coaches because they think it's indicative
of injury. Now, that could be like an old wives tale, but for me, it's athlete measurables, right, college production? And then their role in your team, right, are you a blocker?
Are you a pass catcher? Because what are we going to do?
Yeah? All right? The last one, most important one.
I was cussed because I saw this on here.
Quarterback look for quarterback to be fair, commanders were not in the market quarterback. But but I will say this, every team needs depth at quarterback, and so I wouldn't be surprised if any team drafts a quarterback at some point or another. Now, this doesn't mean they'll be a starter for that, but almost every team, and quarterbacks are so expensive now, they're like, if you can get a backup quarterback when a rookie deal, that's advantageous for you.
So my point, I guess is like, we're commanders. We clearly have Jade and Daniels. We are not in the market for a quarterback. But it's still important to look at these guys, especially in the later round. So what are you looking for?
Yeah, this one is tough because my I've grown up a lot in this category. So I kind of want to say like twelve things, but I'm trying to keep it to two. One is a consistency, right, A consistency
with your footwork, a consistency with your arm mechanics. And everyone says, well, now, like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, they're making all these off schedule throws, but when you watch them, there's a consistency with their lower body mechanics and their upper body mechanics, even when they're vacating the pocket, there's a consistency there, right, And that consistency means that I can it leads, It tends to lead to accuracy, right, and good ball placement down the field. That and then
what kind of student are you? You have to be a great star student of the game. You have to constantly be learning. You have to constantly be the first one. And you have that when I hear of that about a quarterback, and most schools will kind of just volunteer that like kind of you know, because they want them to get drafted.
But that thing is huge. And then the other element.
Is how do you process stuff? How do you process the defense? Because it's not always a stagnant picture, and especially in the NFL, because the hashes are tighter, defenses can decide stuff longer. The windows are smaller, right, because you don't have this big vacant hash to the left
of the field. I'm always like, how do you process information, consistency of mechanics, consistency of play, just in general, and then student and this, and we could I could have a list of twenty things that I'm looking at here, but those are probably a push those to the top.
Yeah. I mean with quarterback, I feel like you're constantly looking for like, uh, like a hypocrite in a way. And what I mean by that is you want someone that's a huge nerd, giant nerd, loves to study, loves everything about football, can't get enough of football, but also
has that dog in him. He's going to go out, he's going to take kids, he's going to step in the throads, he's going to compete, and he's going to put the team on his back, like emotionally sometimes and like you need both of those.
Did you come up with that right now? Yeah? Right now? That was great? Yeah, because that's exactly what you're looking for. You're looking for.
You're looking for a paradox, right, You're looking for that's better than a charismatic, dynamic leader who's also a nerd, who's also can relate to everybody on the team, but it is also a little bit of above everybody unicorns. It's a weird, it's a weird position to evaluate, and it's that one yes and no. For me, there's a lot of no's, a lot of no's, and when you find a yes, you're like, oh, oh oh, this is exciting.
This is what is this? What's happ Yeah?
Fred says a lot of things, but one of the things that I do like that he says often is there are nine billion people in the world and we can't find thirty two of them to play quarterback at a high level. And he's right about it. It's the unicorn that you have to fin and I guess what, We got one here and watch.
Dude, how fun has this been? Time?
It's been amazing.
It's been fun talking on this show, take it to the draft last year and going through so much film of him and all these other guys, and to see all of those questions get answered and to see all of those things we loved about him be even better here.
It was just it's just been.
A tremendous journey and really cool to watch from last year's episodes all that stuff, and to be here making a push in the playoffs.
It's so exciting. And yeah, so we're not going to come back until we win the Super Bowl. I think so like this is our last episode until then. But if we happen to not make it, which I think probability is low that we don't make the super Bowl. Now with Jade and Daniels on it and the Super Bowl. KP's currently wearing. But if we were to come back before the super Bowl, the Senior Bowl is a week before that. We will be in Mobile, Alabama. We will do a podcast every day after every practice of the
Senior Bowl. Same thing. Once we get to the Combine, we'll break down the combine and all that, and then we'll have Draft Night for you to and we'll do something, if not weekly, regular in between those things too, leading you all the way up to their draft. So if you're a fan of the Commanders, man, just enjoy it. Oh my gosh, soak it in. I've been a fan for so long of this team and it feels amazing. And if you're not, you'll still get great content in
this podcast, I promise you. As we move forward, we'll even talk about the top quarterbacks at some point, for like, obviously we have nothing to do with them, but they're hot, as we'll talk about them. Maybe they go to a divisional ride, right, so you'll get Logan's evaluations when these guys moving forward, Like I said, we're gonna get guys like Field Yates, Trevor Sika, m'connor, Rodgers, Matthew Berry we had on last year as well. Like, we will get
these guys again. I've already reached out, some of them have already said yes, and I know the other guys will. We see them all the time at these events. So yeah, please like, subscribe, turn on net notuification. We'll be back after the host an a Lombardi Trophy in DC.
Pretty sick. Mm hmmm mm hmm