What is up? What's going on y'all? This is the beat Down podcast, And guys, the vibes I said were immaculate last week and the vibes, I don't know what's the pot and the next step up with that will be, but it has to be great, right, I mean, they go out and beat the Cleveland Brown thirty four to thirteen, go to get to four and one for the first time since two thousand and eight. Definitely one of the best experiences I've had since I worked here in the
last five years. Last five records we've had are three and thirteen, seven and nine, uh seven, eight, eight and one, and then last year of course being four and thirteen. So I don't even know what to do with myself go and get a game to be four and one. But now we do have the next test, which is probably gonna be the biggest one here so far, at least with the Baltimore Ravens. We're going up there for the first time in twenty sixteen, believe it or not.
Uh And even though the Ravens are three and two, they are still regarded as the Super Bowl hopeful, still regarded as one of the most respected teams in the league. It's gonna be quite the test, gonna be a juggernaut in ways of the Commardiers have not experienced so far this year. And how do they manage to come out
of Baltimore with a win wealth. That's exactly what we're going to discuss today with me is Liam Griffin from the Washington Times and Michael Jackson Jenkins, which you can findly with my arch nemesis or one of my art nemeses frans mut. I'm gonna get lou podcast. Guys. How have y' all been doing today?
Good?
Yeah, we're having a great time. Excited to be here with you guys.
Yeah, love to hear, love that absolutely. Well, let's still jump into it. But before we do that, you know, for guys, everyone listening like they know the spiel, they know the deal I'm gonna be We're gonna be debating three questions, one offense, one of defense, kind of more of a general question. Uh, these guys have been gonna be giving points based on my discretion, and since it is my podcast, I can decide who the winner is.
But don't get too caught up at the points. Don't get too caught up in the victors, because what's more important is listening to these guys and their objective takes on the team because they have it all, they have the knowledge. So without further ado, let's get into it here and we're gonna start on the Ravens offense. And yes, I know, Lamar Jackson MVB caliber candidate, lights the world on fire with his arm, with his legs, can do
it all, all that stuff. But their biggest offseason acquisition is number twenty two Derrick Henry, who rushed for two thousand yards, one of the few to ever do that in NFL history, is off to another fantastic start to his career, to his twenty twenty four campaign, leading the league in rushing yards. He's a locomotive in every single sense of the word, and he's gonna be the biggest challenge because he can, he has a speed, and he also has his strength to bowl you over. So Jinks
will start with you. It's a pretty simple question. But how do you stop Derek Kins?
Like?
What do you?
What do you do if you're the command of defense man.
It's such a great question.
I love the use of the phrase locomotive because that's not used very much and it's absolutely correct here.
I think you have to do a few things.
And of course this is easy to say when you're just talking into a microphone. But first of all, you have to keep him off the field by getting the Ravens off the field on third down because sort of like b Rob, I mean, there's different players, one thing they share is that as the game goes on, they get stronger.
They're so physical and they can wear you down.
So the more he's on the field, if the Ravens take advantage of the third down and stay on the field, that's going to be a problem.
So you've got to get Baltimore off the field.
And then you have to tackle well in space, more than maybe any other player in the NFL, because yeah, that sounds something that's very basic.
Of course, you always want to play good fundamental football.
But if you don't tackle Derrick Henry in space and he gets his stiff arm out and he gets separation, then it's over for you.
And I saw this, I.
Think it was early in the week, and there is a stat that the NFL has measured the fastest players running in a straight line so far.
To see Garrick Henry's in the top five.
I get faster than then Xavier Worthy, which is just absolutely bonkers.
To think about.
So tackle in space, don't let him get loose, because it's some point he will break. He will break one open. We've seen that throughout the season. And then finally you just have to pray, like just gonna pray this sweet baby Jesus, like maybe he has an off game or something. It's not there's not an easy answer there, but I think maybe those are some of the keys.
You know.
And now Derrick Henry, he's he's thirty, so he does still have some of that. You know, he's he's gonna be He's gonna have his regressions a little bit, and there's a arguna be some games he's not gonna be Derrick Henry of old. But we also seen here for almost two hundred yards. A couple of weeks ago, he had a fifty one yarder against the Bengals to put the that put the Ravens in position to win that game in overtime.
Uh.
But Liam Will, we'll go over to you here because h Jenks put up some some pretty good points here. Uh, you know, it's getting getting the Ravens off field and third down like that's been that's been you know, in theory, that makes sense. But also they're the third highest third out convertage virgin percentage in the league. And they're really aggressive on third down, Like no matter what the position is, where they's third, long, third and short, they will go
after you. And they had because they know, because they have the tools to do it. And Washington conversely is while they are better, they're still in the bottom third of third downs allowed. So how do they able to liam how they able to maybe you know, keep Derek Heny bottled up on those third and short situations when he's you can basically if he can fall forward, he can get like, you know, three or four yards for you.
Yeah. Absolutely, Like going into the Browns game, they were thirty second in the league in that third down the defense and playing the Browns to make anyone's defense look a little bit better, you know, taking that, I think they allowed one for thirteen on third down as a defense.
So this will be kind.
Of proof of whether that was just that's how bad the Browns are or this commander's defense started to step up on third downs. But when we were talking to players this week, they mentioned and coach Dan Quinn said this as well, really swarming to the football, and so this is going to be like all players are going
to have to be engaged on run defense. And we talked to a cornerback, Benjamin Saint Jus, and he mentioned that he's just looking to not get put on a highlight reel if he's just looking to not catch a stiff farm, so he'll be going for shoe laces, which I mean, if you are Benjamin Saint Juice, I think that might be a better plan than trying to take on Derek Henry straight on. But it's going to have to be an effort from all eleven players to swarm
to the football. And that's something that the run defense has kind of done well in a lot of these games, especially with the linebacker group of Bobby Wagner and Frankie Lubu. They're really good at diagnosing a run and being able to shoot gaps and get to a runner in the backfield.
But that's especially important with Derek Henry. We mentioned how good he is once he gets into open space, but to put that into perspective, he's leading the league in rushing, but fifty two percent of his yards has come on explosive runs of fifteen or more, so half of his yarder to come on eight different runs, or he's able to get into the second level and just torch a defense, get past the secondary, because as the player will tell you, it is hard to tackle Derrick Henry in the faith.
So I think that's just the best thing that you can do is as a team, as all ELEVEM players on the field being willing tacklers and everybody taking a shot at it and swarming to the football when you see Dereck Henry, because once he gets an open face, once he gets the head of steam, you it, it's hard to stop. And people have been trying it since
he was in high school. Everybody has seen the highlights, and so you really just got to hope that you can trip him up, hope that you have enough momentum on your side to keep him from busting career on the defense.
And you know, he's so he's so good that no other running back in the league or knows better than him. He leads the leading yards of yards after contact, he leads the league in broken tackles. Yeah, it wants And the thing is, like I said, he's thirty years old, he's still like, I mean, his workout rour teams are insane because he knows he has to be in that level of physicality if he's going to keep up his
his level game. Because I don't I don't ever see Derrick Henry being a guy that's just gonna be a speedbacker in that. He's just too he's just too big to be doing something like that out you bring up Brandy and Saint Juce I remember, I remember him saying if they're saying that about, you know, game for the game for the shoelaces. But I'm gonna bring up something else that maybe he's not necessarily talked about Derrick Henry
enough is him as a pass catcher. And you know he's not like the best, He's not like Austin Eckler or anything out there. But if you give him on a get him on a screen, he's very, very dangerou because he has a bunch of blockers in front of him, and that's when he's able to get momentum going. Uh. And you're gonna give a lot of defensive backs opportunities to tackle him. Uh that you know, if they're not
ready for it, it's it's gonna be really tough. So jinks, how confident do you feel about these these commanders defensive back, He's going up against a guy Gary Henry if he's gonna be in space, and even again, like even as a runner, his most of the biggest plays this year are on the outside.
Yeah, it's a really good point, and I think you sort of touched on it, which is it's it's one thing to have that skill set, it's quite another to get a guy that big.
Who's already moving like what you see with Miami.
Right, they'll run a lot of offensive sets and they'll get Tyreek Hill catching the ball on the move, like out of the backfield, or maybe it's Stevan a Chan like. They want to get these guys up to speed where there's no false steps and as they get the ball, they're already going.
And if you do that with Kerrick Henry, that's a.
Test for any player in the NFL, no matter who you are, And it's especially a test for the secondary, which has definitely gotten better. And I think a lot of it has to do with the improved play up front on the Washington defensive line, because it's taken some of that pressure off. But we know that going into the season, the secondary had a lot of question marks
and probably still does somewhat. So yeah, this is probably their biggest challenge in the season, especially a guy like that who is that imposing, who catches the ball and all of a sudden he's coming at you. Then you see guys like Spoot likes to say, who make business decisions. You saw Antonio Pierce saw that, or say that what
a few weeks ago. So we're gonna make some changes because we have defenders who are making business decisions and they're saying, I don't want to tackle this guy coming at me, And it's the last thing you want to do in the NFL is play with fear. But if there's any guy who could make you do that, it's Jorick Henry. They have to play smart, they have to play fast, and they have to be the aggressor here where he gets ahead of stud.
Liam real quick. Before we would we move on to the next question of the commander's defensive backs, safety's corners. All that, who do you give the best chance to bring down Derrick Henry if they see him, like in a one on one opportunity. But there's not gonna be that many, but there is gonna there are gonna be somewhere out there.
What was it of the commander's defense or upary in particular the secondary? Okay, on the secondary, I think I might give it to Kwon Martin. I think he's someone who's been really scarming to the football and he's been fast, he's been aggressive, and I don't think he has I don't think he'll be out there making business decisions, you know. I think he's willing to get out there as a tackler. He's performed well in run defense this year in addition
to his you know, coverage responsibilities. So I think Kawan Martin is someone who's willing to get in there and get his nose dirty and uh, you know, maybe.
You end up on a highlight reel.
Maybe you get a solid stop and get an added boy on the sideline.
Fair fair enough. But you know, I'll also bring in Jayeremy chen In that into that as well, because with him, like he's so physical at the point of attack, and it's like whenever he's whenever he gets into the into the attack, all the play is done. It's over. The guy is usually brought down there he's usually at least the first of the last guy to to get to get to him, So I think that could be a pretty big role as well for for for old Jeremy Chin.
We'll move on to the next question, but first score up day Jinks, you are in the lead by one point. Although Liam I did like the point about Kwan Mark because I think he's also going to be a pretty big factor and stopping the run on Derek Henry special on the outside. Uh, but we'll switch over to the Commanders really side of things, and uh, you know, the Commanders have put together one of the really, really really
strong ground game here. I mean they they're second in the league, uh, second only to the Ravens, and they're leading the league in rushing touchdowns. I mean they they're it talk about like just a complete flip of what they were dealing with last year, where they were not really running the ball at all, like Ed'll cook, you know, effective in anyway. They were last league and run pass ratio.
Now they're running the ball almost more than anybody, and they're doing it at a very successful right because of the offensive line, because of Brian Robinson, because of Boston Eckler. But they're also going up against the Baltimore defense that has allowed I think like sixty something yards per game on the ground. They're very, very tough. That's one of the biggest strengths they have that's carried over from last
year's Baltimore group. So, Liam, what do they have? Obviously, you can't run the ball all the time against this Ravens defense. It's just it's just too much. But they do have to get some of it going to get this for the sake of their offense to be functioning properly. So how do you get that running game going against a defense that has just been so stout on the ground.
Well, I think first of all, you have to rely on what got you here, and at this point in the season, cliffkaing through your offense isn't just running one run team. You know, They're not just one of these inside zone, wide zone, you know teams.
They're doing it in a lot of different ways.
So they're running this counter scheme, they're running these gaps, they're running the outside zone, and so I think doing that really kind of puts pressure on a defense to keep up on every single play, and they're not able to just kind of go on auto highland and say, all right, we know where this run is going, we know our responsibilities, and so I think a lot of that responsibility is going to fall on Cliff Kingsbury as a play caller to keep things fresh, down and down
out to kind of stream drives together. I also think you're going to want to see because the Baltimore front seven is so lethal against the run, you're going to want to see some of these kind of extensions of the run game. So this team, I think this was true last week. I need to check up on this, but they'd called the most screens in the league, and it wouldn't be surprised if this is another big screen game. Because you have these talented pass catches, these talented skill players.
You're Austin Actlers or Brian Robinson, even Jeremy McNichols has looked fantastic this season, and so getting the ball to them in space, even when you know your offensive line isn't able to just Maull bowl over this incredible Baltimore front, getting the ball to them in space on the outside is going to be key. And since we haven't mentioned
this yet, the Commanders have Jayden Daniels yeah, isn't. Yeah, unlike Lamar, he does not drive in these kind of designed runds, or at least he hasn't so far this season.
Most of his damage has come as a scrambler. And so I think that's signed to look at too, where even if you end up you know, you take a Baltimore jumps out to a lead early, you're in a bunch of you know, passing downs, the game script is dictating that he does most of his damage as a scrambler improvising, and that puts so much strain on the defense where they're always behind their shoulder.
You know, you're running a man coverage.
Oh no, Jade Daniels pass the line of scrimmage and he's torching you for another twenty yards downfield. And so I think that's signed to keep in mind, is that it is not just you're not just running at a brick wall and hopeing for the best you're getting outside of it. You're trying to stress them however you can using these skill players that you have available.
Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean the Jade and Daniels effect of it obviously is so key. I mean, you think about that for them three had, you know, getting past j Oka there for that thirty four yard running set up an eventual touchdown. I mean, he he makes the offense right in so many ways because of his's, because of how he's able to scramble and make make
a lot of chicken salad. As I like to say. Uh, but but Jenks, you know bringing up the running backs right, like you got Brian Robinson, you got Jeremy Nichols, you got Austin Like all three of them have done, you know, their work over the past few games, and so Brian Robinson has he's at least I don't know obviously, we don't know whether he's gonna play or not on Sunday,
but he's at least looked a little damaged. I guess you could say because the knee injury he's gonna deal with over the last uh, you know, a week and a half or so. Didn't practice on Wednesday, didn't practice on Thursday. So say, you know, for whatever reason, because you know, rob did not play much at all in that second half, thankfully because the game was out of pretty much out of out of out of the Browns reach.
But say be robbed, you know, doesn't get half to didn't get to carry like twenty one twenty four times, we're maybe been used to last few weeks or so. How confident do you feel about me? Nichols Eckler, and you know, even Jade and Daniels to an extent, to be able to carry the load and be more of a full fledge or well rounded rushing attack. It maybe leaning on be Rob a little bit more.
I mean it will. It's definitely a step back.
We know that because b Rob is so good and he's so good light, because he's he looks for contact, which is what.
I love about him.
But I think there's a couple of things you can do here, and one is Bro deep, like, do not be afraid to take shots to.
Loosen up this Ravens deed.
But as they are upfront, you can throw on the secondary Jade and Daniels, as we know, was part of his scouting report and we've already seen it in this room, beautiful.
Deefall and an accurate deep ball.
So if the first you don't hit, keep making the Ravens account for that, and then as the game goes on, don't be afraid to keep trying to punish Baltimoaundians and be aggressive on four to down. I love the fact that dan Quinn and it's made me nervous in some spots where maybe keeping that Baltimore defense out there longer than it wants.
To be out.
That even if it doesn't work early on, what have we seen from this Washington offensive line?
Can't believe I've seen it. They've become road graders late in games.
Where and I'm not saying an NFL.
Team quit because you said to those guys, get a punch in.
The face, but but they were done, like it was over, like they had had enough for the day.
They had had enough of the Washington offensive line.
So you stretched them out, let them know, open up the offense if we have to, and then we're gonna keep running and hopefully by the fourth b Robb is maybe hamstrung a little bit, you sort of wear the Ravens defense down.
Yeah, no, I think I think so. The offensive line is is. I think they've they've quietly done their job, and in a way it's been doing doing it quietly. It's become a lot louder because they they've been excellent run their run, block win Ray. They've done a good enough job of protecting Jane Daniels in a way that I don't think a lot of people have ever really
would have guessed heading into the city this season. So Lee, well, we'll go over to you, like, what do you feel like, how do you feel about the matchup between this Commander's offensive line and the Ravens defensive line? Because uh, yeah, you you've got some You've got some pretty quality, quality guys in that front seven year Roquand Smith as one of those guys who's are really a blitzer, and you know, the interior of this off of the line is really
going to be tested. So how do you feel about about that matchup as they try to, you know, establish the run game a little bit more.
Honestly, I feel better about it this week than if you had ask me seven days ago because of that performance that that offensive line put together against the Browns, who have one of the better defenses and one of the better front sevens in the league. And so I think you're seeing this Washington offensive line really come into
its own. We knew Sam Cosby was going to be great, but I've been really impressed by, you know, by Tyler Biadish and by Nick Alagretty and the way that they've adapted and kind of embraced this team's identity as a run first team.
Yeah yeah, you know, like I mean, Tam Cosby has just really been I would say, yeah, he's playing at a Pro Bowl caliber plate uh rate right now. Tyler Biadage has been has been so critical, uh Nick Ali ready even so, I mean he's he's been grammy. I mean, shoot, like Ronald Garrett didn't even record a a state, like a stat like anything, all out of pressure, not a hurry, not a tackle at all because of how Brandon Colemo was playing, which also brings up a quick question I
want to I want to address. Boy, We'll move on to the next question for you, Jenks, is you know the Commanders have they've kept this weird rotation and left tackle with Cornelius Lucas and uh and Brandon Coleman, and you know you don't want to see that very often. You really like to see, you know, five guys consistently bringing up that starting line. H But at the same time, Quineta Lucas has not done really enough to say you
need to bench him or anything. So do you think like eventually they're gonna maybe, like I don't know, like keep on one guy or the other. Do you think they're just gonna roll with this rotation until it until it doesn't work?
Well, yeah, I think this is a I think it's a situation where for now, because things can certainly evolve, if it ain't broke, don't fix it because it's working. And also, this is this is sort of the perfect scenario right where ideally Brandon Coleman is the guy who eventually takes over that spot. But anytime you're a rookie in the NFL, you know you you were around the edges in some spots. Could be technique, could be learning
the grind, whatever it is. And so when you have Lucas playing so well, let Colman sort of learn along the way and get the reps at the same time, maybe getting the rest or getting the time he needs to learn the position where he's not just thrown into the fire immediately. And so right now, if you've got two guys who can play the spot and you're doing well, why introduce a rotation or take a guy out when
everything's working the way you want it to work. So it's a luxury to have where you have two guys, let's keep doing it.
Yeah, And you know, it's funny that, like, you know, left tackle was such a big question for this team heading into the offseason, and now all of a sudden, they've got they've got two starting left tackles And if you would never have guessed, they would have had a surplus. And you know, I left tackle is just it's so hard for rookies to be thrown just be thrown in there and start. And it's almost like a perfect way to to kind of like insulate Brandon Coleman's development because
you're not putting the whole game on him. You're more of just like giving him half of it a little bit and then like you know, if he gives you give them a series and then you come back over to the sideline you talk about it. And while you're over there all over talking about you let Brandon Coleman UH or Cornelis Lucas just do what he does, uh, just to be serviceful enough in the past of the
past protection game. It's it's really interesting and I think, you know, honestly, if it helps out with his development long term, great, that's fantastic. But we'll move on to the net the final question here, Uh scored it quickly, Jings. You were still ahead uh by two, so Leam, you still got a lot of work cut out for you. But I think this question is gonna be a very good philosophical one.
Uh.
You know, these the execs two players, Terry McLaurin and Frankie Luvu, Like they're both thought they're going to be pretty key right to to getting a win on Sunday. Terry mclaurran because of what he's he might have to be able to do against Marlon Humphrey and that and that that Raven secondary and on top of that, Frankie Loluvu he's got the he's got the athleticium and the
quickness enough to keep up with Lamar Jackson. I feel like he's gonna be so critical, especially after that game they had against the Brown really just let the world on fire. Uh, Liam will start with you. Who needs have a bigger game between these two, Terry or Frankie Luvu.
For me, I think it's really clearly Frankie Louvo.
I think that this defense is going to have its work cut out for it, and really it's toughest tests of the season Obviously the offense isn't you know, going against slashes either on the other side. But I think there is no one else in the league like Lamar Jackson and like Derrick Henry, and this Washington defense doesn't have the hors in all the time. They might not always perform up to the ability to contain, you know, these two Offensive Player of the Year MVP caliber players
on Baltimore's offense. And so I think Frankie Luvu is really going to have to step up and embrace this challenge head on, because we've seen him do it before against some of the lesser competition. Earlier in the season, we saw him, you know, in coverage in Arizona really helping to shut down that offense. Last week, we saw him as a pass rusher against the Browns, disrupt into Seawn Watson's timing and really single handedly taking over that game.
But this is a whole new thing.
You know, this is Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson, and you know, he's been paired with Bobby Wagner throughout the season, which has been great. And Bobby's obviously a future Hall of Famer, an incredible player who is still able to diagnose defenses with the best of them, but he's lost the step this season, which is to be expected with.
A player of his age.
And so Frankie Luvu is going to have to be the aggressor on this defense and be the energizer bunny really to power this team forward.
And I think he's going to have a lot of responsibility.
So I think he's going to be shooting those gaps to try and keep there Henry from getting the head of steam going that defensive coordinators have nightmares about. And I also think he's going to have a lot of Lamar Jackson responsibility too.
I feel like every time that I watch him play.
And every time I watch his tape, I'm always circling like, Wow, great play by Louvo in the way that he's able to force a quarterback out the pocket, or the way that he's able to like kind of patrol the field and work sideline to sideline to keep a guy from scrambling, you know, and also remain in his coverage but as well and maintain those responsibilities. And so I think Frankie Louvo is someone who on a Washington defense that is kind of lacking in star power a little bit and
that's still trying to find their footing. I think that Frankie Louvo has a huge task ahead of him, and I feel like if we see him, if he has another game like he had last week or like he had in Arizona, then I think we're talking about the Commanders win. And I think if he goes missing in action, I feel like that things could get a little bit ugly.
Yeah, good point there to end it on jigs question, terrm Thorne or Frankie Lulu.
I'm gonna take an l on this, and that was a great answer.
Here's what I think You're absolutely right, Like pairing him with Bobby Wagner is the perfect yin and yang, and I know that dan Quinn has talked about that, but it's Frankie.
Him for a couple of reasons. One which you touched on.
Is maybe Spye or at least can Jackson on the ground. And then number two is in run support. We've talked about Derek Henry. You don't want him getting to this, but if you need Frankie Lulu to clean something up, or the defensive line needs runkey, Lulu could get.
In the gap and also provide that as well. That's one thing. It's as the kids would say, it's his.
Vibe and it's the fact that this defense really feeds off of him, and you guys talk about it. We've seen it in the locker room when he's doing his Samoan war dance, like when Freddy Frankie Lulu is playing well, when he's being physical and speedy. Tell the other guys on that defense respond to that, and they try to elevate the level of their play.
To Matt, how good Frankielubu is.
So when you have a guy like that making plays in a game like this, or he brings down Lamar Jackson, that will make the entire Washington defense better. And then the argument against that would be, Okay, well you need Terry mccorran, you need to go deep, which is absolutely true. However, the Ravens secondary is ranked thirty first in the NFL, So if they have a weak spot on that defense,
it is that secondary. So if there's someone besides Terry mccorran who can step up, it's Deanni Brown, maybe it's Luke McCaffrey. This is the game to do it because you can attack that Baltimore weakness.
But it's definitely Frankie Lubu in the spot.
You know, I've watched that him getting a game ball video in the locker room so many times and every time it just it just gets me so fired up. You feel like you're right there in the moment with him, and he right, he brings so much energy to this team. He really I think he you know, I've wondered, like,
what's the best you know, off season acquisition. So such a clearche question asked, But like every time, I think you like, Frankie Luvu is probably the guy just because of the energy, the leader ship and just the freaky athleticism that he brings. So I completely agree with both of you that probably is going to be Frankie Loe Loup and final selection for the winners here, James, you were in the lead the whole time. But Liam that that answer to the to the final question was so
great you pulled out. I had to had to win that. You had to win that one there. Do you have any parting words of victory.
For first, I would like to say the academy like thank.
You for.
And that of course.
I would like the.
Academy that's saying I don't want to pull the Oscar music on you any or anything. Now there's the short and sweet love to hear. But guys, thank you, Kenneth, thank you enough for doing this and for everyone listening. Uh, hopefully we'll be talking about a win next time that I'm next time i'mber gracing your ears and that would be incredible because they'd be five to one for the first time since nineteen ninety six.
Would be night with the last. Yeah, so we're running.
Out of the first of the first time since we're about to enter into never territory here. But that just shows the great turnaround this franchise has had over the last few months or so, and it's been a fantastic just experience to be a part of it. But everyone makes sure to rate, review, subscribe, get us wherever you get your podcast, and this has been the beatdown