Emma Goswell: 0:01
Hello again. I'm Emma Goswell and I'm your host for Coming Out Stories. We're a podcast from what Goes On Media and we bring you real life stories from fabulous individuals who just happened to be part of the LGBTQ plus community. And in order for us to continue bringing you brilliant episodes every fortnight, we are currently looking for sponsors. So if you think you can help, please do head to our website that's comingoutstoriespodcastcom, and click on the work with us tab. We'd love to hear from you. That's comingoutstoriespodcastcom. And also, if you think you've got a story that might help others, why not put yourself forward to be interviewed? You can email us again via our website, or you can message us on x, where we are comeoutstories, or on Instagram, where we are comingoutstoriespod. Right time to crack on and head to Brighton to meet Kirsty Loehr. She's the author behind the rather brilliant and very illuminating A Short History of Queer Women. I started by asking her when she realised that she wasn't straight.
Kirsty Loehr: 1:14
I would say it was quite late. But then when I say to other people they don't think it is. But I was about 16 when I first thought oh, like what? Some things are a bit different here, because up until then I was so sure that I was straight like adamant, it didn't even cross my mind that I would be queer or we didn't even use the word queer then, but like a lesbian or gay or I just had no idea that I would. I was that I had boyfriends. My first boyfriend was gay.
Emma Goswell: 1:44
When did you discover this?
Kirsty Loehr: 1:45
later on in life, I think I knew then to be honest, but I think a lot of lesbians tend to.
Emma Goswell: 1:51
And I've spoken to a lot of gay men that have gone out with women who have turned out to be lesbians.
Kirsty Loehr: 1:54
It's fine, we find each other.
Emma Goswell: 1:56
We do, we find each other, don't we? It's safe.
Kirsty Loehr: 2:00
But yeah, I guess I was 16 and then suddenly, like it hit me like a bus, like it was a car crash and it was just like it came from nowhere it really did. But then when I looked back all the signs were there. Of course it was very clear. But I guess the way that, where I was brought up, I guess, or that kind of time- Okay, because I think of you as being quite young compared to myself anyway.
Emma Goswell: 2:22
So tell us what decade you would have been at school when you were geographically.
Kirsty Loehr: 2:27
Born in 1986, so I'm 37 now. So we were just the last generation before social media, before internet, before I mean, the internet was about but no one had it in their house and in school it wasn't really a thing. So secondary school was 97 and finished 2002. And then I'm from Manchester and I know Manchester is very famous for being like the gay capital and very friendly gay friendly which it is. But I don't know. I guess I was brought up on quite a rough council estate in Manchester. My mum was great. She was amazing. I never felt uncomfortable with being gay. I always thought if I was I'd be absolutely fine coming out with to my mum. But I don't know. It's the people who I hang out with. There's no one. No one was gay. Gay was an insult.
Emma Goswell: 3:13
Were people saying that thing oh, that's gay, yeah, yeah, like that's what at school, yeah, and, and I used to get called like.
Kirsty Loehr: 3:19
I remember being at school and someone said to me oh, my mate thinks you're going to be a lesbian when you grow up. And I was absolutely mortified, like it was probably the worst thing anyone could have said to me, because I was quite sporty and my mum my mum was quite good. She raised me like gender neutral at a time when that really wasn't a thing. She just, yeah, she was very much like be who you want to be. And I chose to be who I wanted to be. But then I saw what I'm saying like. So when I looked back, all the signs were there but I just didn't connect.
Emma Goswell: 3:50
So you were wearing the lumberjack shirt well before your time. Oh my god.
Kirsty Loehr: 3:52
Yeah, there's like primary school photos of me in lumberback shirts. I know it just hit me, there was a girl. And then I was like, oh my god, I'm attracted to women. And then I looked back and thought, oh my god, I've always been attracted to women.
Emma Goswell: 4:06
Apart from the derogatory comments, was there any talk of no being gay or bi at school? No, not at all. Nobody came out at school.
Kirsty Loehr: 4:15
No, no, this was um state school like Compton Manchester, so I mean, section 28 was obviously a thing then as well. Our teachers were pretty good. Now and again maybe queer people would be mentioned, but I don't really remember it. There was a lot of unconscious homophobia, you know that, the like you're gay kind of thing. It wasn't very much like although I don't know, I think probably um men. The boys in the school probably got it worse, yeah, than the girls did.
Emma Goswell: 4:45
I was gonna say and it's all about gender stereotypes isn't it. So I was spiking to a lot of gay men who didn't conform to the gender stereotypes, so they were being told that they were offended and therefore they were gay, whereas I think, as lesbians, can go under the radar a bit more sometimes. Maybe you definitely can. And were they getting bullied? Did you sense that they were having a tough time?
Kirsty Loehr: 5:05
Yeah, for sure, and I knew a few. This is what it was like then, though. It's just it wouldn't come into your head that someone was gay. They'd be called gay because they might be a bit effeminate, but they wouldn't be gay because nobody's gay. It was odd. It was a really odd time, especially in Manchester. I always look back and think the only person that I remember being gay was Ellen, and look what happened to her. Well, she's doing great now.
Emma Goswell: 5:31
They cancelled her series, didn't they? Because she came to her school.
Kirsty Loehr: 5:34
You didn't want, that did you, so that was.
Emma Goswell: 5:37
My new 90s Manchester. That was when Queer as Folk was in the middle of the night.
Kirsty Loehr: 5:40
And I remember my mum watching it and me trying to watch it behind the door, but she wouldn't let me watch it. I love that, though.
Emma Goswell: 5:46
And I know so many people that moved to Manchester because they'd seen Queer as Folk and literally fought. You know, in Canals Street I used to walk up and down.
Kirsty Loehr: 5:54
I'd walk up and down Canals Street as a teen, terrified but felt like that's where I needed to be. So I just walk up and down there. Too young to go anywhere, but just felt like I needed to be there. But then I wouldn't look at anyone.
Emma Goswell: 6:06
And what were you scared of.
Kirsty Loehr: 6:09
I was always terrified of people finding out that I might be a lesbian, so let's go to Canals Street and walk up and down.
Emma Goswell: 6:19
Might as well, have got a badge.
Kirsty Loehr: 6:20
I know, I know it's just I don't. I just kind of felt like I needed to go and then I still get a bit scared actually, when I'm there. I don't know what it is. It's just something about it that it was a big deal to me that I'd go past on the bus, you know, like I had to just see it. I had to go and see it, but I could nowhere go and talk to anyone I know. Very different to what I'm like now.
Emma Goswell: 6:39
Yeah, couldn't be more out really. So what happened when you were 16 and you said it hit you like a bus? Was there a person who did suddenly have a crush? Have a revelation? So I started.
Kirsty Loehr: 6:48
I left school, started college, and I remember there was two girls at college. They were like together and I was just like what. They're together and it was just mad. And then they had a friend and I just suddenly became obsessed with this friend, never spoke to her, still never spoke to her. I don't know who it is which is mad, isn't it? People can just completely change your life and they just know who you are. But yeah, I remember sitting next to one of the bus ones and it was just that I was the electricity in my body and it was just like whoa and I couldn't get off the bus because I'd have to get. My stop was before us but I couldn't stand up and get a go past. I sat on the bus all the way to Trafford Centre and then I got off. Oh no, oh, my God, and then that was it. And then I never really looked back. And then I don't know if you remember Alex Parks from Fame Academy.
Emma Goswell: 7:36
I do remember Alex Parks. I had Alex's Parks as first CD.
Kirsty Loehr: 7:39
Me too, and yeah she was lesbian favourites.
Emma Goswell: 7:42
She had a great voice actually, I know, but she was a big like.
Kirsty Loehr: 7:45
She's not really my type as well, but I was obsessed it became. I think it's because there was a queer person a public queer person, you know that one as well Like that, was treated with respect and talented and did very well. So I think I just suddenly became very obsessed with her and then never looked back, went to uni. I remember being at uni thinking, right, I'm going to have to come out or I'm going to stay in the closet for another three years. So I was bit the bullet and just came out first year, first week.
Emma Goswell: 8:12
So you were what 18 then?
Kirsty Loehr: 8:14
Yeah, 18. Yeah, 19, 19.
Emma Goswell: 8:17
What do you remember? You had about two years in the closet.
Kirsty Loehr: 8:20
Oh God, it felt like an eternity.
Emma Goswell: 8:22
But it can be quite destructive, can't it?
Kirsty Loehr: 8:24
Even if it's only a year or so Really struggled and I'm like, quite, I don't really think before I speak, I'm quite honest, and so to keep something inside like that for me was a massive deal and I really struggled, really, really struggled. There was a lot of dark depression and didn't want to. I really didn't want to be gay, I really didn't want to be. Why? It just didn't look fun, it didn't look like I just thought my life was done. There was a lot of shame there. I just I just I didn't know any lesbians, especially the word lesbian as well, like it's a word that I'm really trying to reclaim, but the word then it was. It was disgusting. It was just a word that people would prefer to say gay rather than lesbian.
Emma Goswell: 9:02
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it, and I know a lot of people like that you know still. Because there's that word lesbian. It's just a bore on so many people isn't it. I can't really unpick that. It's weird, isn't it? But it is.
Kirsty Loehr: 9:15
I've done a bit of research into it. I think because we use it as a noun and we use gay as an adjective, it doesn't roll off the tongue. No pun intended. No pun intended.
Emma Goswell: 9:25
So this time, in the closet you were, you literally only knowing to yourself. You never told any relationship, not soul. You didn't kiss a girl, you didn't have any relationships. No, no, god was terrified. No, I wouldn't dare.
Kirsty Loehr: 9:38
I think I told there was a friend I had it was Saber than Ireland and I think I told her was bisexual. But then I was terrified that she thought I'd fancy her. So there was so much negativity towards it, Just really like the shame and the negativity and just I just really didn't, didn't want that for myself. But then you know, just come, it's inside you, isn't it? And then it's fighting to get out.
Emma Goswell: 9:57
So after two years. You kind of know that's my lot. I've got to do something about this. Yeah, and what? What was the thing that spurred you on? Was it just I need to come out, or did you have a relationship?
Kirsty Loehr: 10:08
It was me being at uni and getting all these new friends and thinking if I'm going to live my life truthfully at university because universities, it's a big moment in your life, isn't it Like a turning point?
Emma Goswell: 10:20
I was like a kid in a sweetie shop.
Kirsty Loehr: 10:22
Oh my God, I can go to gay bars on my own Find women I was like, look, if I'm gonna do this properly, I can't, I can't say in the closet. For three years I remember kissing a boy I think that was the last boy I kissed and then to be a man now. And Then I remember being another club and this girl just like struggled me and I was like, yeah, wow. And then yeah, came out the next day and then never look back. And who did? He come out soon I came out to my mate, jack, and he was straight at the time. It was funny, like all my mates, we all made friends like this big group of friends We've got, and I came out first and it was literally one by one, everyone just came out. We're all gay. But yeah, then then I came out and it was just like it was great, I was just living my best life and it's honestly like my favorite thing about me. I know people say a lot of people have that argument where they say like being a lesbian, there's more to you than being a lesbian, but for me it's like I genuinely think it's the best thing about me. Influences my writing, influences my humor, influences. I love it. I love women, I love sex with women. I love writing about women. It's like I. I am so different to how I was in those two years. I know well like myself.
Emma Goswell: 11:32
You've kind of built a career out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah it's the best thing about me, and why not? So when he came out to Jack, how did Jack take it?
Kirsty Loehr: 11:42
he was great and then. But then he told everyone so that's what, not a friend? A friend should not do that, but I didn't mind, to be honest. So he got away with it. But he did tell everyone, not in a mean way, I think he was just excited and also because he wanted to come out. So he did come out, but I didn't tell my mom and when was the mom coming out session? Well, I knew it'd be all right, but I didn't want to do it face-to-face. So I just was in the club one night and I just texted her going I'm gay, by the way.
Emma Goswell: 12:11
It was at the full sentence.
Kirsty Loehr: 12:12
Yeah, I think it was yeah, and she went okay, and then we never spoke about it again for two years because she was kind of waiting for me to speak about it, which I don't know. There's, I think parents don't really never know really how to deal with it, do they? They think, should I wait for them to talk or should I? But I think I would have rather her Brought it up with me because I was a bit nervous. But no, she's absolutely fine, it was my dad. That was the yeah, scary one.
Emma Goswell: 12:36
Oh, so you specifically told her first and waited. Yeah, and how was he?
Kirsty Loehr: 12:41
Well, so my dad's American. My mom and dad had never been together. They I was product of a one-night stand, which is lovely. He had sexual nonsense and, but he's he's like always been in my life. He's great, but he's a Trump supporter. So that isn't great as she is it and a lot of my family are. I know my dad is very Liberal, strangely, but he's kind of one of those Americans that's like the economy, so the economy becomes before human rights. He's like that person. I hope he doesn't listen to this, but yeah, so I was always a bit worried so I just got to the point there where it got too long, so I didn't come out to him until I was 30, 31.
Emma Goswell: 13:19
Oh wow. That's quite a gap then between. It was horrific.
Kirsty Loehr: 13:23
So I used to go over. I'd go over and visit him all the time and I just I'd have to go back in the closet and I was someone else, completely someone else. I went over my ex-girlfriend once and we were friends oh.
Emma Goswell: 13:34
So difficult. And then how did he react?
Kirsty Loehr: 13:36
amazing and he's like Because I basically what happened was I was getting married and separated now, but I was getting married and I Knew that if I got married and didn't tell him it would really break his heart. So I bit the bullet and I wrote him a letter and he rang me immediately and was like what? What I found hilarious was that he was so shocked. He's just so oblivious. I was like really met one of your ex-girlfriends, yeah, and. I'm like really like what? But yeah, so that he was really good and he's and I've got a little boy with my ex-wife and he's like the best grandparent and yeah, he's amazing. Yeah, he's absolutely. I couldn't have asked for anything better from both my parents. So I'm very lucky in that respect. But some of the family in America there's been a few Comments that I don't really have time for, so you don't speak to them anymore or you just Not really. No, like I remember saying that I was getting married and then I remember saying I was having a kid and one of my aunts was like she was like, look, getting married is one thing because you know you can choose to get married, but bringing a little baby into this world, and after that I was like, okay, well, I don't want my son to have any of that around him. So God, yeah.
Emma Goswell: 14:47
I know, how old is your son now? He's two and a half Aww, and my baby's nearly two, so that's a nice one.
Kirsty Loehr: 14:53
Oh, really yeah.
Emma Goswell: 14:56
It's so exciting, isn't it? I never thought I'd get to be married or even a parent, so yeah.
Kirsty Loehr: 15:02
Well, exactly that's what my next book is about. Actually, I'm writing about being a parent. So, as a queer person, you never do think that it doesn't come into your head, does it you?
Emma Goswell: 15:10
just assume I wanted to, and it's a very long journey for me. I wasn't a mum until I was 50, so I kind of left it a bit late, never too late, but yeah Well, we should talk about the book then, shouldn't we really Go for it? Have we missed anyone out, though? Was there any other significant coming out? Do you have any siblings? No, I'm an only child.
Kirsty Loehr: 15:31
But I don't know, I guess when you have that first relationship, the person that I was with was in the closet for a long time and they kept me in the closet with them. Yeah, I know, and I think that happens to a lot of people that come out. So it kind of I had that shame again. You know that you have when you are worried or you just don't want to. I just felt like she didn't want to be gay and then I'd just come out and was already happy and then you kind of go back into it. But I think that's quite a common trope with lesbians, especially here.
Emma Goswell: 16:06
And then to me. I went out with someone for two years who I never met her mother. When I had to drop her off like two or three straights away. I can't believe I did it now.
Kirsty Loehr: 16:14
I know I can't. I remember I never met parents, that was just a friend. It's brutal, isn't it?
Emma Goswell: 16:19
Yeah, it's really brutal, especially when you've been through it all yourself and you know how traumatic it can be. But every single person I've spoken to on this podcast genuinely, even if they've had awful things happen to them have said I'm so glad I did it. You cannot stay in the closet for a while. No, you're not you're just not.
Kirsty Loehr: 16:36
I know it's like cliché to say, but you're just not living your true self. You're just not. We only have to be gone. Yeah it's so damaging Definitely, and that's why, again with the book that I just wrote about, queer history is that if you don't have that representation in school and the history of seeing yourself in the past, you just don't exist in the present. So it's so damaging.
Emma Goswell: 16:59
Well, let's talk about the book then, as you brought it up again. This is what I love about this podcast is I can literally just approach people. This is what I love about social media. I can actually approach people who I reading their book and respect them and go. Will you come on the podcast? And you said yes? Because I was in a brilliant bookshop in Bristol last year and I picked up a copy of your book called a short history of queer women, and it is a very short history, it's palm sized, and I honestly, have learned so much and also, as I wasn't expecting to although the woman the shop did tell me it is very, very funny, so I have laughed a lot, thank you. So tell me how the book came about then and how you came to write it.
Kirsty Loehr: 17:43
Yes, so when I was coming out, when I wasn't coming out, when I was in the closet for those two years. I'm a big history fan. Like big history, I love history, and what I tend to do is, when I get obsessed with something or when I want to learn about things, I try and find all the stuff, information about it. So when I was thinking, oh my god, I'm a lesbian, I had to go and find out every single piece of information about what being lesbian meant. I couldn't find anything. There was nothing to find apart from Ellen.
Emma Goswell: 18:06
Don't you research? Ellen got cancelled, so it was like where is?
Kirsty Loehr: 18:10
it and I always stuck with me that like growing up and just loving history and there was no queer history ever. And if there was any queer history, it'd be really sad and depressing. Because queer history is sad and depressing? Well, it is. There's no taking away that it isn't. So that was the main reason. And also queer theory. I'm very interested in queer theory and gender studies and lesbian studies and it's really academic and it can be quite off putting. To a lot of people who might want to read it, it's very inaccessible. So I wanted to write something that was easy to read, funny and also had a lot of sex, because I like writing about sex.
Emma Goswell: 18:44
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. I'm just gonna read you a little clip with Paige that I read recently. I mean, this is the most serious, depressing subject that you could possibly tackle, on its fascism. This is your take on it. In 1933, adolf Hitler was elected Chancellor of Germany and immediately acted like a dick. Before Hitler, 1920s, berlin was heaving with homos. I like. What I like about that is just you've got the facts there, but you make it funny. Short sentences it's funny, it's to the point and, yeah, it's just really readable, isn't?
Michael: 19:19
it why?
Emma Goswell: 19:20
was it so important to make it really funny as well as just readable.
Kirsty Loehr: 19:24
Well, like like queer history and queer theory, it's very academic, it's sad, it's everyone dies and I mean I can't say that they didn't die, because everyone did die and it is sad. But also these people have, there are parts of their lives that are nice and they met people and they were happy and they got married. In terms of how they could view that marriage as well, obviously it was illegal, but they could. They just built lives for themselves and I always found that really interesting. You know, building a life for yourself in a world that's completely against you, but you somehow managed to survive and there are fleeting moments in a person's life that are nice and should be shared as well as the bad.
Emma Goswell: 20:06
And what's amazing to me is, I mean, I didn't really learn much history at school but like the amount of sort of straight washing for one of the better that has happened to so many people. I had no idea until I read your book that Charlotte Bronte was a lesbian.
Kirsty Loehr: 20:19
Yeah, well, right, yeah, so I can't. I can't a lot of people get angry about this. I can't say she's a lesbian. Well, I can, actually because people say she's straight. Like straight can't be the default. It's always like straight until proven otherwise, isn't it? Why can't it be lesbian until proven otherwise? Why can't it be trends until proven otherwise? Yeah, but she was. There's definitely queer elements. I mean, those letters with Ellen Nussie is just come on and she married. She nearly married Ellen's brother, so she could live in the same house as Ellen Nussie, but she didn't marry the brother, because he was boring, the straight washing, it's just some of it. It's just it's like what do they want these historians? It's like they want them just having sex, like video evidence of two women having sex, before they'll even like acknowledge that they could have been queer.
Emma Goswell: 21:01
No, you're right, and there was I can't remember, was it Charlotte Bronte or someone else who wrote hundreds and hundreds of love letters, and there's so many lesbian stereotypes within them. At one point she's talking about how she bought a present for her dog.
Kirsty Loehr: 21:13
Yeah, Ellen, Ellen Arosevelt, it's Ellen Arosevelt. Yeah, and well they were. They were 100%, I mean 99%, sure they were doing it.
Emma Goswell: 21:22
Yeah, but like it has just been totally straight washed, doesn't it? It really has.
Kirsty Loehr: 21:26
Yeah, which is because Ellen Arosevelt as well is such a prominent figure in history, first lady. You know that's important for people to see that someone like that could be queer. It's so important, yeah. So to just completely remove that element of her is so damaging and horrible.
Emma Goswell: 21:40
Couldn't agree more. So that's a go-to must. You've got to read that, find out all about your lesbian history and have a giggle along the way. And then what's this new book about parenting?
Kirsty Loehr: 21:50
So again, in kind of the same way. Queer parenting is something that's also very difficult to find knowledge on, and I remember when me and my ex were trying to figure it out, the only way we could understand about of what to do or just find any information was to ask our exes. And that's what a lot of lesbians do, don't they? And they ask their exes because we're all friends, so it's just nothing there is there. And then the NHS. They told us we had to prove that we couldn't make a baby, and it's like like we'll be proving forever Like we can't make a baby. Well, yeah, we've done a lot of practice, but there's nothing happening, it's just everything's very out of touch and archaic and the whole system needs to be upgraded. But also, queer people have been raising kids in a queer well, challenging heteronormativity, forever. It's not a modern concept, but yeah, we did reciprocal IVF and yeah, we couldn't find any information on it. It was so confusing, so difficult. So what I'm trying to do is highlight how queer parenting has been a thing forever and also the different ways that you can do it, and just to also show that the system needs upgrading, because the amount, the ridiculous things that me and my ex had to listen to, was funny, because that's how I usually deal with things is humour. But yeah, it needs changing. The whole thing needs changing.
Emma Goswell: 23:14
Well, I have to say, when I was becoming a parent, I couldn't find much to read on it, and I did end up reading GenList.
Kirsty Loehr: 23:19
Yeah, the Other Mother.
Emma Goswell: 23:21
The Other Mother, yeah, which I really enjoyed reading. Actually, there you go another lesbian, bright and mild.
Kirsty Loehr: 23:27
Yeah, yeah, it's helpful to have these books, but we're still the Other. You know we're not the Other, though, because queer people are having kids like a lot now and divorcing. We're doing just what the straight people do.
Emma Goswell: 23:40
Basically, yeah, but hopefully we're doing it a bit better, of course.
Kirsty Loehr: 23:43
But then, yeah, look, there's a lot of research as well into kids raised by queer parents, because the heterosexual argument as always is oh well, you know there might be some damage there and the research says there is absolutely nothing.
Emma Goswell: 23:58
No, I don't think kids have that prejudice either, do they really?
Kirsty Loehr: 24:02
They just care that they're getting looked after and getting a conditional life, and I'm very lucky to be in Brighton as well, which is full of us, so I have that go to loads of lesbian mother meetings.
Emma Goswell: 24:14
Yeah, I have that luxury, yeah, but then I don't.
Kirsty Loehr: 24:17
There's obviously places in the UK that might not be as apparent. So yeah, just I think it's something that needs to be written about.
Emma Goswell: 24:24
When's it out? When can we expect it?
Kirsty Loehr: 24:25
I'm still writing it, so 2025, probably.
Emma Goswell: 24:29
Okay, watch this space, then you don't have a title yet.
Kirsty Loehr: 24:32
then no, not yet, but it'll be a short and fleeting, but like a short history equivalent. So it'll be in that kind of style.
Emma Goswell: 24:39
Fabulous. Well, best of luck with it. Thanks, and I'd better end the podcast the way I normally do and ask for your top tips of coming out maybe to anyone listening that hasn't done it yet, that hasn't quite coped with it or had the bravery to say the words and tell their friends and family, what advice would you give them? It's so horrid, isn't it? Oh God, I just really remember that time.
Kirsty Loehr: 25:03
Well I'd say, be prepared to keep coming out, because you don't really start coming out, which is pretty crap. So the more you do it, the easier it'll be. But the first time you do it, the relief I just remember, that relief of just feeling myself and true to myself and, like you said before, if, even if you have a horrific time and even if the worst thing could ever happen, you're still happy in yourself and you're still gonna. You don't want to live your life not living your true self, because it's not a nice life. But then I have that privilege of being in the UK and all of that sort of stuff. So obviously, keep safe, but just bite the bullet and do it Just like a plaster, just rip it off. It's so worth it. I couldn't express how much it is. I feel upset because I've wasted and I came out at 19 and I just feel I wasted all those teenage years because queer people tend to age Like. We have this weird like Benjamin Button thing, don't we? Because we came, we usually come out a bit later, so in our 20s we're like rampant teenagers. So the earlier the better.
Emma Goswell: 26:09
I love it. A huge thank you to Kirsty for chatting to me and, seriously, it's not LGBT History Month anymore, but that doesn't mean that you can't read up on your lesbian history. Honestly, I learnt so much from her book. It's called A Short History of Queer Women and it is available now. Don't forget to support your independent bookstore, of course, particularly people like Queer Lit or Gaze the Word here in the UK, and you can buy online from both of them. And, of course, I should mention, while I'm talking about books, that while you're there, you can still pick up a copy of our book. It's simply called Coming Out Stories. Next episode, we're off to NYC to meet Michael, who says that Coming Out helped him in so many unexpected ways.
Michael: 26:54
I felt lighter. I also think it made all the relationships in my life a lot stronger, because, even if part of our conversations weren't about my identity, the fact that I was showing up to these relationships without hiding something, being able to bring my true self, my full self, to the relationship whether it's family or friends or coworkers all my relationships got stronger and stronger and stronger.
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