EMMA GOSWELL0:05
Well, hello, and welcome back to our podcast. Thank you so much for sticking with us and being here. This is Coming Out Stories, and I'm Emma Goswell. So it's brought to you by What Goes On Media, and as you'd probably expect, we're in the business of bringing you extraordinary coming out stories from across our beautiful LGBTQ Plus community. Now I do feel like I start every single episode with an apology about how we haven't brought out an episode for eons, uh, as I've been busy doing a myriad of paid jobs and chasing a toddler, and this episode is no exception. I am so sorry it's uh such a long time between episodes. Believe me, I have thought about abandoning it many a time. But then every time I do I'm reminded about how we're not really going forwards when it comes to LGB and especially T rights. Uh we're going backwards, aren't we? Rights are being rescinded, left, right, and centre, both here in the UK and especially in the United States. The far right homophobic and anti-trans brigade. I feel like they're being emboldened with every Union Jack that goes up on a flagpole here in the UK or every sporting body that bans trans women. And I do believe that now, more than ever, we have to share positive stories from our community. So let's get cracking. Let's hear another one. Time now to hear from a young lesbian poet living and working in Manchester. And get ready for a coming out stories first will end with a poem. Yes, really. And you guessed it, it's about coming out. Before we get there though, let's meet Amy L. King. Her pronouns are she her and she might be living in a big gay-centric city now, but she was born in the late nineties in Grimsby, which was on the Lincolnshire coast. Which she said was not really a hotbed of lesbian action.
AMY L KING1:58
Yeah, it's sort of like a very small seaside town. There's not a ton going on. Um there's definitely a very limited, if not any existing sort of queer scene there.
EMMA GOSWELL2:07
So don't have a Grimsby Pride.
AMY L KING2:10
No, they don't. I think they you know what? I think there was a Cleaforps Pride, like a little go of it a few years ago. Um there was like a gay bar at one point. Actually, there was two. There was one in Cleaforps that was called, I think it was called Silhouettes. Um I know, sounds very you know saucy. And then they opened like a a drag bar on the sort of high like just off the high street in Grimsby, um, just before COVID, which was like wild to hear about because there was nothing like that growing up. And I think apparently it had drag and it also sold carveries, which I just thought was the funniest thing in the world. So you could have like a roast dinner and watch drag.
EMMA GOSWELL2:42
Now, this is quite an American thing. Is it? Yeah, I've just remembered in um Portland, in Oregon, there are lots and lots of like steakhouses and restaurants with like strip bars or drag bars. It's it sort of goes hand in hand.
AMY L KING2:57
It does make sense because I guess like thinking about our scene in Manchester, like there's so many places where you can see drag anyway, before you're having like a drink or having food, but like I think in Grimsby that to me feels really like I've never seen or heard anything like it. I didn't get to go because it was COVID as well, and then it I think it shut down after a little while. But there's like a little bit of effort, but like growing up there was nothing. I didn't I didn't know gay people existed, really. I didn't know any anybody who was queer in any way. My only real reference of any queer people was um when we sit down as a family to watch Gok Wan's fashion fix on a Tuesday.
EMMA GOSWELL3:29
Oh, okay, that's an interesting one. So so a gay man that was prevalent on TV at the time, would this have been the noughties?
AMY L KING3:35
Yeah, it would have been, wouldn't it? I guess like, and like even then I didn't I didn't know what I was seeing, in terms of like I just thought, oh god, he's this really confident, really quite flamboyant man who's really into fashion. And like we didn't, it wasn't kind of explicitly said that he was he was gay um or queer in any way. I think it was just sort of like an unspoken gnomed thing. But like that was my only reference growing up.
EMMA GOSWELL3:55
And what sort of vibes were you getting from your parents or everyone else in your family? What was it acceptable? Was it cool?
School Silence After Section 28
AMY L KING4:01
Um it was probably quite it was probably quite cool, just in terms of like, oh, he's a bit interesting, he's a bit different, but like there was never anything explicit about being like, oh, he's he's different maybe because of his sexuality or because of the way he's presenting himself. But there wasn't really kind of any hostility. Like it was just not really talked about. We didn't talk about queer things as a family.
EMMA GOSWELL4:19
Now, how much do you think you were affected by clause 28? Because I guess it was sort of being gone by the time you were at school, was it, or was it was it still illegal for teachers to talk about LGBT issues?
AMY L KING4:31
I don't think it was probably illegal, but it definitely wasn't spoken. No, and I think about this a lot because I think about things like the sex education we were having in school and how kind of crowded all into the lunch hall and and we talk about sex ed stuff, but like looking back, there was never mentioned of anything queer, which I imagine was a lot of people's experiences. Like I hear about schools now, and there's probably, you know, they've got like LGBT clubs, and like, you know, it's really exciting to think, oh, kids are probably, you know, seeing themselves at least reflected in in maybe the lessons they're having and the the ways they're being educated.
EMMA GOSWELL5:04
It's interesting, I think it was Schools Out did a survey, and it was years after Section 28 was abolished. I don't mean the exact statistics, but a high proportion of teachers and schools thought that they still couldn't talk about it. You know, no matter what happened legislatively, people hadn't changed what they were teaching kids in schools.
AMY L KING5:24
It's wild, isn't it? But like I'm not surprised the legacies they alone because until someone kind of like explicitly says to you, like, by the way, there might be queer kids in the school, you can talk about these things. Like, I guess it's not on the forefront of anyone's mind. I didn't know anybody in school who was there was really no gay kind of identifying boys, or even like boys who who people suspected really, that wasn't a thing. I remember there was one girl who played a lot of football who was a little bit more masculine. I think everyone called her, I don't know, everyone was very, you know, the way kids are quite mean, but I think people were like, oh, maybe she's a lesbian. But that was it, and there wasn't there was just nothing. And like I know a lot of people since who have come out sort of years down the line, but I just think we're always there. Because if we're not out. I just think it's funny like how there was there wasn't even like a whisper of it or there wasn't any conversation.
EMMA GOSWELL6:10
And was there bullying then? You mentioned this one girl who was more sort of demonstrating that she might be different. Was she getting bullied?
AMY L KING6:19
Maybe a little bit, but it I think you know, kids were all just kind of looking for any reason to pick on each other in the way they do. So there was still probably definitely an air of like you didn't want to be called a lesbian, you didn't want to be called gay.
EMMA GOSWELL6:30
And you didn't have your short hair then, which I must point out you have got now. We're gonna talk about that later. Yeah, definitely. The haircut was definitely a thing, wasn't it? Um so you were sort of passing as be just being a heteronormative child.
AMY L KING6:42
Yeah, well, I didn't even know. I was I didn't have a clue. Like I was thinking god I didn't probably even know lesbians are real till I was about 15. So like throughout school, I just had absolutely no clue we existed in any way. Which seems wild now because I'm like, God, it's just like if anyone had all just been like, oh by the way, that that's that's a thing you could be that would have like a light bulb would have gone off. But I I just thought that all the girls I knew who fancied boys, I thought it was just like some big lie that we were all telling ourselves that like I just thought no one really wanted to date them or like kiss them or anything, but like no one was talking about it. So I was like, I'll just play along then if we're all kind of doing this. Oh, who did you pretend to fancy then? Oh, I was a couple of boys, but I just I think I probably wanted to like not even be one of them, but just kind of be just kind of be on their level, just in terms of like confidence and just sort of just not giving a shit about things and just wanting to just be be myself, but like didn't really know what that meant and like wasn't interested in them. I think I dated a couple of them, but like in that very loose way where you maybe like go out for two weeks and then you break up in the playground.
EMMA GOSWELL7:40
There was definitely no sexual things going on.
AMY L KING7:42
No, nothing, nothing. I don't even think I even got it, I don't think I even kissed them. I think if they got anywhere near me, I'd be like, nope, we're done, that's it. But I get it. It's over, it's been lovely, but it lasted. I remember there was one I had one boyfriend in in college for like again a few weeks, and I remember thinking, Oh, I'm gonna have to end it. And I like took him down the beach because like at home there's just the beach, so if you need to go for a walk or a talk, you do it there. But I took him down the beach and I said, Oh, I'm sorry, I don't think it's I don't think we're gonna work out. And I remember he called me, he called me a self-fulfilling prophecy and told me that like if I kept you know breaking up with boys, I was gonna be alone forever and was very much like you're ruining your own chances. And I remember thinking, God, am I? Like, am I breaking all these boys? We put like a bit of a fear in me, I guess, of being like, Oh, something something's wrong.
EMMA GOSWELL8:24
Were you confused at this time? You had well, did he have no inkling that maybe you were just um barking at the wrong tree, batting for the wrong side?
First Crushes And Confusion
AMY L KING8:32
It's so funny to look back because anyone who knows me now will be like, You're I don't know, I feel like I'm quite a vocal, quite clear lesbian. Like, if you saw me, you wouldn't be you wouldn't be asking me where my boyfriend is anymore. But no, yeah. No, but I think at the time I just didn't even again didn't even consider it was a possibility. It seemed I guess it felt really kind of sad for me for little me looking back, thinking, like I knew there was something going on, but there was just nobody to talk to about it. And there was I didn't even I guess probably like could Google things, but didn't really think about it because So go on then.
EMMA GOSWELL8:59
When and where did the penny drop? What happened?
AMY L KING9:02
In that classic, in that classic way when you fall in love with your best mate. Um no, it was good, it was cute. After secondary school and I go into college, I did like one of those kind of summer camp things where you'll kind of go away as teenagers and you just kind of mess about in a field for for weeks and do rap sailing and stuff. And I remember meeting a girl there, she was she was openly queer, kind of probably identifying as gay at the time, and she kind of walked in this like Avril Levine t-shirt, and she just like she was so like tomboy, and I was just really enamoured by her from the start. And like I thought that was friendship, and then because I've I definitely had like a lot of friendships with with girls growing up that felt like so, you know, like when you're teenagers and you fall out over something, it felt like heartbreak. Like I remember like when me and one of my best friends, when I'm probably like 11 or 12, fell out. Like, I remember listening to Adele on Rabin and just treating it like a like a really big heartbreak. I think looking back on that, oh, it's because I was probably a bit of love or like having like really deep crushes, but not like not understanding them and just thinking, oh, this is what female friendship feels like. And then yeah, kind of met my friend. We became like really good friends and sort of good friends through college, and it kind of started becoming things where maybe like at parties we'd sort of maybe like hold hands or kind of linger around each other and sort of and at that point I was definitely confused, but I was kind of like leaning into something without wanting to name it. How old were you now? So I was probably about probably like 17, 18. I had this kind of best friend, and we were like having a lot of sleepovers and kind of like holding hands, and sort of there was a lot of like probably tension, not really, and she was she was out, so like I knew there was I probably again lent into it without really wanting to sort of like question what was going on for myself. It all felt quite innocent, like I don't know, I wanted it, but I didn't know what I didn't know what was happening, but it felt good. And did it happen eventually? It did. We were together about four years in the AMS, which was lovely. It was such a nice first love. Like, I think a lot about how lucky I was to sort of meet someone and and then sort of I went away to uni and she was still at home, and we sort of yeah, kind of long distance it, didn't long distance it for a little while because I was doing in Sheffield, but like when you're 18, I guess I'm like, you've got to pay like probably 30 quid to get the trade. We didn't see each other a lot. So I kind of rocked up in Sheffield, kind of freshly out with a new girlfriend straight off the bat, kind of long distance, and sort of like had to come out for the first time to people. And like she was the only person who knew at that point because we were just kind of So you were having a relationship in secret, yeah, yeah. And like my mum cottoned on because she was like, She for saying to me once she was like, You brush your teeth every time this friend's coming round. And I was like, Oh yeah, it's because it's because we fancy each other and and I think we're in a relationship. And she was like, That's okay, I think I knew. And she was really cool about it.
EMMA GOSWELL11:30
And that was it, that was the moment, yeah.
AMY L KING11:32
And it kind of felt a little bit, you know, when you expect something to be a lot more um kind of like there'll be that huge kind of moment, and it feels like this like rush of emotions, and you kind of have that little kind of like get to tell you a thing, and then mum was like, Yeah, I knew that was going on.
EMMA GOSWELL11:45
But she sort of um was letting you know that she knew by saying, I've noticed you brush your teeth teeth a lot when this girl comes around. I mean it's one way of acknowledging it, isn't it? It's quite a subtle way of your mum, actually.
AMY L KING11:57
Yeah, she was really. I think again she didn't she didn't probably really know how probably what to say or how to support me, but she was fine with it.
EMMA GOSWELL12:04
I mean you could have lied, thought, I'm not ready for this moment yet, and gone, oh shut up, mum.
AMY L KING12:10
That's the sort of thing I might have said. Very embarrassed, but like I was still very nervous and it really kind of talked to her much about it then. And like I didn't tell my dad for a little while. I think it took like a whole another year of sort of being at uni and kind of making friends with a lot of people because I didn't I there was no one I grew up with who at that time I knew was was queer in any way. You don't think she would have told him? No, she didn't bless her. She didn't tell him the heart, and she and she was treating it, bless her, almost like it was her secret as well. Like she was like, I can't live like this anymore. And I was like, You're not gay, you don't have to like you're fine, you don't have to tell anyone. But I think I think for her it probably was hard to like keep a secret all that time. And then eventually I did tell my dad, and he was he was fine. He was again probably in that dad way of like, yeah, cool, that's all right.
EMMA GOSWELL12:50
Was that a sit-down moment conversation with him?
Coming Out To Mum And Dad
AMY L KING12:52
Yeah, he came to visit me sort of about a year into living in Sheffield, and we just had like a day together. And I remember I sort of took this opportunity when he was telling me about one of his friends' daughters who had just found out she was pregnant, and she was kind of my age, so we were only kind of like 18, 19. He was like, Oh, so-and-so's pregnant. And I just really took that and was like, Oh, well, I'm I'm not pregnant, but but I am I'm gay. And he was like, Yeah, okay. And that was a weird, probably a weird way to tell him, but I just I don't know, I think it just felt like there would be no good time to do it, or like no, I wouldn't know what what to say in terms because it felt so new to me still, and I think like there was there was friends I kind of definitely like kept my relationship from for a long time, and I felt probably at the time didn't feel guilty because I was like, What's my secret? I'll tell them when I'm ready. But looking back, I'm like, oh blessed. When I did tell my friends, they're often really like, I wish you told me sooner, and and I probably wish I had too. And they hadn't realised, they hadn't gotten on. No, I was very I was very much under wrap. So I think I told quite a few people at uni, but then again, when you're at uni like first year, you're kind of you're kind of putting yourself out there and like reinventing, aren't you? And sort of everything feels new and like you're meeting a lot of like people who maybe share similar lives to you. Um so I'm I met my best friend at uni who um was out as as bisexual for from when she was like 14. So she was like my kind of my guardian angel and still still is, and she was like, she was the first person who was like, it's fine, like you don't have to worry, like it's okay, it's great actually, you're gonna have a great time. And then sort of life got exciting from there, and then I sort of kind of found my way.
EMMA GOSWELL14:19
Did you have any siblings to come out to other members of the family?
AMY L KING14:22
I'm a little weird only child. So there was it was just kind of me. And again, I think maybe if I had siblings, I would have had someone to like confide in that way, but just didn't know any queer people and didn't know where to begin. And I just think I think so much for younger people now, or anybody, like it's so hard to kind of get your get almost like get your footing if you don't have anything to reference. Like I didn't really watch there, wasn't really much on TV that I sort of think Orange is the New Black was my big like first queer show, which I guess I think I must have started watching it when it was like probably like in season two, so there was that whole first season to kind of binge. It was massive, and that fan it felt kind of like a bit like naughty too watching it, and just in terms of like, because like a lot of it was for the like obviously for the part, but also for the like just the representation and seeing like women kind of being queer and having sex and just like talking about these things, and that felt that felt thrilling, like it was exciting. Well, you probably missed the L-word, did you? Yeah, I didn't really I've seen my biggest shame is that I've still never really watched all the L-word, which is is that just because you're too young?
EMMA GOSWELL15:23
Are you still in your twenties?
AMY L KING15:24
Yeah, I think a lot of my friends, I think my friends binged it. And I I've I've watched Dodd Bits. I think at one point I'll sit down and watch the whole thing, and like I've you know, I know like all the classic characters and all the tropes through it, but I think I watched a show called A Hundred. That was a big show at one point that had like a really big kind of queer plot line that was like treated really badly, actually. The writers kind of really butchered it, and there was a big like sort of backlash from queer communities being like, I don't know, don't just treat us like characters who can be kind of killed off and oh lesbians are always either killed off or they're the serial killer. Yeah, they're always killing us. And like I guess like killing Eve was a massive time, but again, that's not it's not giving us like the easiest representation, is it? Like it's not great, is it? I mean, it's just very good at killing people, but maybe not the best lesbian. It was very, it was very like sexy and very like I guess like exciting to watch, but um there just wasn't the TV, I guess, when I was coming out, apart from things like maybe like American Netflix like stuff you could binge. I was watching um I went to Shipton Hall the other day and was thinking about when I first watched like Gentleman Jack, and that felt really exciting and um kind of learning more about like Ann Lister's life and a relationship with Anne Walker. Again, I think like once I started kind of delving into this world, I started like wanting more and more of it, and that's when you kind of that's at least for me when I sort of seeking it out and like trying to find specifically queer TV or books or or film that like we could see ourselves in.
EMMA GOSWELL16:41
Yes, if you've never heard of Anne Lister, go and look her up, especially if you're a lesbian.
AMY L KING16:45
When did she live? She lived somewhere like that. The 1800s, she I think she died in 1840. So she was like early 1800s, um, yeah, really powerful.
EMMA GOSWELL16:52
And she married inverted commas, not a real marriage, in uh her girlfriend in a church in York. You can go and see the plaque in York.
AMY L KING17:00
Have you been? Have you been to that as well? No, I've not been to that, but um her house is really beautiful and there's and there's loads of just like interesting, I guess, kind of facts about her life and the way she lived really openly, and like how how I think a lot of men really didn't like her, or in the way that I guess a lot of men aren't a big fan of lesbians these days. But yeah, they just she came up against a lot, but she kind of really held her own and she didn't back down. Her whole thing was like um running Shibden Hall in Halifax and like wanting to, I guess, kind of take control of the estate and the money coming in, and people thought she'd be a pushover, and she just wasn't. She just took no shit.
EMMA GOSWELL17:33
She was a badass lesbian from history. She was. We love her. Although she wasn't out. I mean, she's she wrote a lot of her diaries in the code, didn't she?
AMY L KING17:41
Yeah, and then someone cracked the code, didn't they? And and sort of um uncovered her life, but she actually kind of kept these diaries about all her all the women she kind of mare and I guess like dense. Conquered, yeah. Conquered, yeah. She's a very interesting woman. But yeah, I think a lot of my sort of understanding of my sexuality and just like lesbian history has come just throughout the years of just like seeking it out and trying to find the information because like nobody offers you on a plate. It's like, oh, do you want to be able to find out about our history? Like, you've got to go find it a lot of the time, or like meet other women who who care about the history.
Representation On Screen And History
EMMA GOSWELL18:11
So you obviously came out very well at university and you were quite confident being out and proud. And do you still do you still feel confident being out in proud? Notably, you have moved from Grimsby to Manchester. Was that partly a decision based on your sexuality as well as job opportunities? Do you think?
AMY L KING18:28
Um Yeah, I think a few different things. I think Sheffield, even then, I was out, but I don't think I was confident. Like, I think I was out as gay for a couple of years, then sort of I had a moment where I was like, maybe I'm bisexual, which I think you know was a valid thing to think about just because I'd I'd yeah, never really wanted to explore that part of my life, and then sort of quickly snubbed a few boys and was like, nah, this is not for me anyway. Um, I kept God, yeah. It was just every sort of like, maybe, and then I was like, nah, it's just not, and that's that was great for me. And then sort of came out, um, yeah, sort of moved to Manchester, lived here for about six years. It's only the last few years I would say I've I've really like settled into words like lesbian and dike, and then they've started feeling comfortable because I think queer was a really good word for me for a while, just while I was sort of working that out. And I know a lot of people have different relationships with it. I guess it kind of feels open and fluid enough that you don't have to kind of pinpoint any specific thing about yourself.
EMMA GOSWELL19:21
It does now. I certainly know some older gay men who find the word abhorrent because that's what they were shouted at at the playground. You know, it was a real slur, yeah, that word. I know it but we've sort of reimagined it now and reclaimed it, haven't we?
AMY L KING19:33
Well yeah, but I think the reclaiming of of words like lesbian have felt really powerful to me because like again, people still don't like it. Like I know I know a lot of people who who maybe worry about, I guess like awful kind of like turf groups who have maybe adopted language and sort of almost make it seem like lesbians are aren't as supportive of other members of LGBT communities, but obviously, like I guess those of us who definitely don't identify any of that horrible, horrible ideology know that lesbians have always been here for for their trans siblings and like for different pockets of the queer community and have always are always kind of all the forefront of those fights. And I guess the big thing about it is like solidarity for me of being a lesbian.
EMMA GOSWELL20:10
Shall we talk about your hair now? Yeah. Because was that a significant moment? Because it is it's funny, isn't it? How we we will have you know. I have a relationship with my hair in that when I realised that I was gay, I decided to grow it because I didn't I thought that would mean that I would be incognito. And it's it's absolutely bonkers idea, the whole thing, really, wasn't it? But did you cut your hair off? Well, I always had I had short hair in the 80s anyway, but then when I realised I was gay at the end of the 80s, I grew it, thinking this'll fool everyone, they'll never know. What an absolute idiot. But they we have weird relationships with our hair and our image, don't we?
AMY L KING20:44
I think we do. So yeah, for me, I had like really long, long, dark, kind of brown curly hair, like almost like to like kind of like hip level for a long time when I was growing up, and then sort of kept it long for most of my teenage years, for most of uni, and then kind of slowly went to like a bob for a couple of years, and then sort of in 2023, just cut the whole whole lot off and went short. Um, so like yeah, but now for anyone who doesn't know what I look like, I have like a sort of short back in size and a bit of a longer fringe. My favourite version of it is when it's like short to the skin and like freshly cut. And it's funny because people do do treat you differently now, I think. But I I quite like it because now men just kind of leave me alone, which works great.
EMMA GOSWELL21:22
Do you think it's working for you then looking much more obviously like a lesbian?
Owning Lesbian And Community Solidarity
AMY L KING21:26
Yeah, because I think about this a lot because I know a lot of like butch women and and lesbian women who don't have short hair like this, and but I'd still but you can still get that sort of energy from them, I think, in terms of like you can just the same way we see each other in public and you think you're also probably a dike. Um and I love I love what that does, and I think for me having short hair, it's allowed me to just like feel beautiful in a different way. I think a lot of people sort of mourned some sort of beauty I'd lost by cutting off my hair and were like, Oh, but you know, you were so much prettier before. And I was like, I don't think I want to be pretty. I don't think any of that feels appealing to me now. Like I want To feel beautiful as this version of myself. And I do. It feels nice to have short hair and just lean into some sort of, I guess some sort of like masculinity, but also like just kind of something that just feels inherently dikey.
EMMA GOSWELL22:13
I don't know why beauty is attached to having long hair. That doesn't make any sense to me. No, it's just like I I feel very beautiful now.
AMY L KING22:18
Quite right, Amy. Thank you. It's fun, I feel weird to say that, but I'm also like, well, I don't know. This is like the for me, what feels at the best version of myself because I feel like I'm completely myself now and like I'm not trying to appeal to any sort of male gaze or like any kind of patriarchal gaze that sort of attaches beauty to I guess femininity. And it's like, oh, for me, like I think being seen as beautiful by other queer people and by like my girlfriend, that feels real to me. That doesn't feel like it needs to be for anybody else. Quite right.
EMMA GOSWELL22:46
Right, let's talk about work a bit because it sounds like you've I I don't know everything that you've done, but you've I feel like you've kind of gone down a sort of gay book of jobs sort of route. You have worked for gay organisations, haven't you?
AMY L KING22:57
I have. So I used to work for a charity called LGBT Foundation in Manchester. They've been running since I think since 1975, and like had, yeah, had sort of one of the OG helplines, I guess when they were sort of like in the back room of some sort of pub or like someone's house where like they delivered a helpline, and then it's sort of a charity that's branched out from there. But um worked there for a long time, also been a writer for a very long time. So um my background's in poetry and um a lot of performance poetry, but um lately more sort of kind of I guess what we call it page poetry and and kind of writing and publishing.
EMMA GOSWELL23:28
So yeah. So do you see yourself as a lesbian poet or are you just a poet who happens to be a lesbian? I mean, because you do write about your sexuality a fair bit, don't you?
AMY L KING23:36
I think I think probably by nature I am a lesbian poet. Like even when it's not about being a lesbian, I think my lens of the world is coming from that perspective, and and I love that. And I think I don't shy away from my work at all. Like, I think sometimes we can worry about like, I don't know, I don't think they worry like, oh, I'm being too much. I'm like, I don't give a damn if I'm too much. Like, I'm I'm because I feel like again, so much of my life was seeing so few kind of proud women who are lesbians or proud, queer women speaking out, and just when I see people, especially people online who are so clear in their like confidence, and like I would choose to be a lesbian every day if I could. Like, this is this is the only life I want. Like, I want to be a part of that, I guess. Cause I think it helped me so much to see other women being so happy and being so overjoyed that this was their life. So, like getting to do that as well and be like, oh yeah, my poetry is inherently, I guess, about my queerness and my lesbian identity and just like who I love and about women and all these things. It feels important.
EMMA GOSWELL24:31
And I know you do a lot of or have done in the past, a lot of um performance poetry, and you performed at lots of venues across Manchester, certainly. And what sort of reaction do you get if it's not specifically like a gay event, if you've got a mixed crowd?
Hair, Visibility, And Beauty On Her Terms
AMY L KING24:46
Oh, it's mixed. Um, I remember one time I did a set in a pub with some probably some like kind of queer poems, and he came off stage and a man just was like, You're frightening. And I was like, Thank you, that's such a great I've seen Amy do a poem, she's not frightened, but maybe to him he was threatened by you. I think as well, like I came from a real like slam poetry background, so like so much of that is like you've got like your three minutes, and you kind of almost want to like set your whole stall out in those three minutes, so there's there's less nuance, it's more like on the nose, in your face poetry, which is a is a corner of the poetry world I love because like slam is so interesting in the way it works, and like trying to make something competitive that's like inherently creative is weird. I'd say my poetry in terms of quality is probably better now. But back in the day I was just like, You're gonna listen to me talk about my things on pride and being gay and just kind of like shouting that really, really loudly, probably not with that much craft involved, but I I loved it. And so, yeah, that was that's always been interesting. And like I've been I've had words like you're like frightening and like fierce and and things like that in spaces that aren't inherently queer. But a lot of the time I feel like you just kind of naturally find the queers in the room, or like you go to an event and someone's also talking about similar stuff, and it's nice to feel that overlap because then you do feel immediately like ah cool, at least someone in this room is gonna get it. And even if everyone else is looking at you blank and being like, that was interesting. Like you're kind of like, oh, it's fine. Like the people that want to hear my poetry and like get it, I feel like probably do. And then if anybody else enjoys it as well, that's a bonus. But I guess a lot of it is is specifically for other lesbians and queer people, and then like occasionally for my mum and like other people who might also enjoy it. Wow. Do your parents love your poetry? Yeah, yeah, they do. I think my dad, like I write a lot of stuff that's for me, and then sometimes I'll try and write about them and for them. And like I've got a poem, like I've written written about my dad as a little walking football, so I've written about that before for him, and he loves that. And like I write a lot about my mum, and because my mum's a hairdresser, so like I write a lot about again my relationship to hair, and then also how she was like the only one cutting my hair for a long time, and like having looking different now and sort of having quite a different presentation of myself, I think, has been a bit of her adjusting, mainly just because it's like someone else cutting my hair, which was like a bit devastating for her. I think she's like, How dare you let someone else do this? And then also just like again, kind of getting used to this version of me. But now she's like, Oh, I love your hair like this, it really suits you. My gran really likes it as well, which I think is cute because she's like 95. So, did you have to come out to your gran? Um I have tried. I don't know how much she understands at this point, but like I definitely have like been like, Oh, this is my girlfriend. And like, I think she's I think maybe like if it had been maybe like five or ten years earlier, she might have been a bit more sort of in tune with it. But like she's pretty happy. She's always like, Oh, you look so beautiful. And I'm like, that's nice, Gran. Thank you.
EMMA GOSWELL27:22
Wonderful. So it sounds like you've had not too difficult a journey coming out, but um, I always ask people for advice towards the end. So would you have any advice for someone who's you know worried about coming out, particularly as a lesbian and just a bit a bit unsure like you were as to what their identity might be?
AMY L KING27:38
Oh, I I think don't panic, first off. Like just kind of take a bit of time, like you don't owe anybody your your story until you're ready. And like, I don't know, it could it can feel awful to kind of not tell those people closest to you, but I think just don't rush yourself. Like me and me and my one of my best friends when we were 18 came out to each other. Weirdly, he came out as gay and I came out as a lesbian, well, kind of queer at the time, like to each other in weather spoons when we were 18, and that felt massive. And we were just like, Oh, it's just it's just me and you, but I think just come out to people when you're ready and just also like find your people or find your community. Like, I for years I wanted, like I was so lucky to be surrounded by a lot of gay men and a lot of bisexual women, and I I just really wanted a lesbian community as well. I was like, I want to meet people who who just kind of get it, and like there are communities out there and there are people everywhere who share similar like experiences and interests you to just like yeah, just like be patient with yourself and like you will find your people that are there. It helps if you move to a big city, it does. Maybe it is getting out of the small, small towns that does help. And I not everyone can do that, but yeah, just like keep yourself safe and don't feel like you have to tell people until you feel ready. That's a big one as well.
Poetry, Performance, And Mixed Rooms
EMMA GOSWELL28:42
So it's all gonna be okay, essentially. It really is. Now, I think it would be a lovely idea to hear some of your poetry. There's no point in just talking about your poetry. Why don't we hear a poem of yours, Amy, about coming out?
AMY L KING28:55
Is that alright? Yeah, that's great. So um, this is a little bit of a poem called Coming Out in Wetherspoons, uh, which I wrote years ago and is all based on like a true story of me and another friend sort of kind of gearing up, well, me gearing up to tell him sort of about knowing about my queerness. So, yeah, this is a part of that poem. So this is coming out in Wetherspoons. We are three pictures in, hidden in the back corner of the top floor like baubles in an attic. His gran asked if we were a couple again before he left the house in a smart shirt, and as I slur up the lass of the purple rain, he looks at me with a wobble and says, Aim, I need to tell you something. And I reply, Me too. I need you to know I'm gay. He breathes. And I reply, Me too. And any confusion we have in that moment is smothered in sweetness, like icing sugar on a burnt sponge, and we lunge our hands into each other's, holding on to the way acceptance feels, and we agree our pact to marry at fifty still stands, but the in-between bits will be just grand, and there is no chance anyone is happier than us in Wetherspoons right now. And when I look my heart in the eye for the first time all night, she says, I don't want to do this forever. And I tell her, give it time for me. Just give it time.
EMMA GOSWELL30:17
Let's have a round of applause. That was great, thank you so much. No, thank you so much for for shanks for me. It's been lovely. Fabulous. How lush to have a bit of poetry on the podcast. Oh, we are cultured, aren't we? Love it. Oh, thank you so much to Amy. It feels like a long time ago I sat down with her, but uh yeah, fabulous to hear from her. And that was only a snippet of her poetry, of course. And if you want to find out more or follow her exploits, she is Amy Elking, poet, on Insta. Next time on the podcast, you'll get to meet an LGBTQ wedding planner based in New York City. Jason Mitchell Kahn is a gay man who has a gay sister and a mum who worked in musical theatre.
JASON31:01
Well, I mean, I often think I don't know what my mother would have done had she had a straight son. I mean, she's the target audience for for for gay children. Not only being in theater, but just their sort of taste level. I think my mom's two favourite artists still are Bett Hitler and Barbara Streisand. So, I mean, I grew up with you know them singing in my house, and if it's like almost I had no choice, they need to be gay.
EMMA GOSWELL31:22
She but she wanted gay children, she she switched on to the gay agenda.
JASON31:25
100%
Top of Form
Bottom of Form