Emma Goswell: 0:05
Hey, thanks for dropping in. This is Coming Out Stories. It's brought to you by what Goes On Media and I'm your host, emma Goswell. We'd love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to follow us on the socials too. We are at Come Out Stories on ex previously Twitter and we are Coming Out Stories pod on Instagram. Every fortnight, we bring you real stories from across the LGBTQ plus spectrum. We've been doing this for over five years now and, sadly, I think it is more important than ever to be sharing these positive and inspiring stories, particularly when it comes to our trans community. As I record this, in 2024, it's a brutal and tough world out there for our trans and non binary siblings. Social media allows trolls and the gender critical to torment our friends and just last week, in the city I call home, two 16 year olds were sentenced to life in prison for the brutal murder of a young trans woman, brianna Jai. Rest in peace. I'm so sorry your bright, bright lights was extinguished than ever. So in this episode you'll hear from Arthur his pronoun to he him, and he identifies as a gay trans man. He's also a bit of a legend as he's the captain of get this the world's first football team made up entirely of trans men. Arthur: 1:38
So I grew up in Peterborough. I'm a very late 90s baby, 98, so growing up in sort of the early 2000s, there's still very little representation for LGBT plus people in Peterborough. It's improving now, but at the time there was no mention of anything whatsoever, pretty much. Emma Goswell: 2:00
What was school like? I mean, were there people talking about LGBT issues in school or not? Really. Arthur: 2:07
In terms of the curriculum. The only time we covered it was in religious education where we were asked whether Christians, muslims, all of the other religions are in favour of gay people or not, and that was the only coverage we got touching it at school. But obviously there were people in years above us who had come out. There were people in my year coming out so that people were aware that these things existed, but it certainly wasn't covered to the lengths that they are, I hope, in schools today. Emma Goswell: 2:36
Well, I mean, you're a little bit younger than me. You're probably half my age. I don't know how old are you now, arthur 25. You're less than half my age. So for me it's refreshing to hear that people did actually come out at school, because in the 80s, when I was at school, it wasn't a thing really. So that's quite nice to hear that people were coming out. But were people coming out as trans? Was there much talk about trans issues at school? Arthur: 3:00
Not until one of my best friends in school came out to me as a trans woman when we were 12, I don't think we were about 12 and because she was one of my best friends, I was like, well, I don't really understand what this is, but I want to support her. So I did some googling and then I came across an article which is obviously very outdated. I think it was in some kind of scientific journal. I don't know how I came across it was like 85% of transsexuals are males or female, but 15% are female to male. And I went hold on, what's that? And then I wasn't googling for her anymore. I was googling for me and I suddenly understood like everything in my life made sense, because she'd only told me the day before. I was like I can't turn around and go back to her and go. I think I am too. So I kept it to myself a year before I told her. And then, when I did tell her, she was like I told you first because I thought you knew that you were trans and you were a safe person to tell. Emma Goswell: 3:54
And I was like she was giving you that lifeline yeah. Arthur: 4:01
Yeah, I guess she knew that I'd be alright with it, because she thought that I'd already figured it out about myself and just hadn't told anybody where actually it was her that enabled me to find the language. I guess I'd always known that there was something that wasn't quite right, but I didn't know the word trans existed until she told me about it. Emma Goswell: 4:20
Well, let's talk about, then, earliest memories, up till 12, because it sounds like you know, like most people in our community, you knew, you had a sense that you were different. So, but how did that sort of manifest itself, do you think? Arthur: 4:33
It manifested a lot of different ways, like, for example, you know when you go on holiday as a child and you make friends with random other children that were there and you never see them again, but I'd either tell them my name was Tom or I didn't have a name at all, because my birth name is very stereotypically female and I didn't want them to know and. I remember like I could still feel like my heart dropping when my relatives would come and pick me up from these children and they'd use my birth name and everyone'd go oh, you're really a girl, and I'd be like, and this is the age? like five. And then I got to seven and then on Christmas Eve, I decided that I was going to cut off all my hair and tell my mum that I should be a boy, which would not recommend for anyone listening. Emma Goswell: 5:15
But didn't go down. Arthur: 5:15
Well then, no, because you know, at age seven, I was not a trained hairdresser, so I was bald on one side and it was yeah. So it didn't go down well. And yeah, as a child touching on football very briefly I insisted that I wanted to join my local boys team. I didn't want to play for the girls team though luckily a girls team did exist at that point but I just didn't want to be part of it. So, like, everything was very much like I knew that I was a boy, but I didn't know that there was a way to become one in a sense. And so when I got to sort of age 10, when having sex education and we were told you know, boys are boys, girls are girls, that's how you're born, that's how you stay, and I was just like, oh well, I guess I'm stuck with this damn yeah, and so it wasn't until a few years later, when my friend told me, I was like oh, there is something else and that's that's me and what about clothing? Emma Goswell: 6:10
because I think that's always quite difficult when you're trans, isn't it? I mean, even me, growing up as a lesbian and not really knowing what I was, I remember having massive rouse with my mother about the fact that I'd never wanted to wear skirts or dresses, but I'm guessing was it similar for you yeah, luckily, my parents were relatively okay with allowing me to dress as I wanted. Arthur: 6:30
It wasn't really until I got to being a teenager, when I guess they kind of hoped that I'd grow out of it. So as a small child they're like, yeah, sure, do what you want, but once you get secondary school you're gonna need to start being the girl you're supposed to be, and so it was only really at that point that they were like we'd prefer if you wore a skirt. Would you try and make up that kind of thing? But as a small child it was absolutely fine, so I didn't really have that many issues then. Well, I guess when they expected it to change, when I stopped being a tomboy and I'd grow up and I wasn't just a tomboy, so I didn't grow out of it- and what about toys as well, because I certainly didn't want the sort of dolls or barbies that my sister was playing with. Emma Goswell: 7:08
Were you the same? Arthur: 7:09
Yeah, I buried my barbies in the back garden. Emma Goswell: 7:14
I love it. Arthur: 7:16
Yeah, I was very into football. I was into trains and all sorts of other things that I don't think my parents wanted me to be into, but I was into regardless. But obviously none of these things denote what gender you are, but at least it made it very easy. When I got to the gender clinic and asking me all these very arbitrary questions, I at least had the right answer. But you know, it's a shame that that's how, as a society, even within gender clinics, they want to put you in those kind of boxes. Emma Goswell: 7:49
And was school? Okay, you know, did you feel like you fit in enough? You didn't get bullied at all. Arthur: 7:54
I found it quite difficult because, as I said, I knew that I was different and didn't have the words and my classmates could pick up on the fact that I was different and they let me play football with them and hang out with the boys, but there was always a sense that you're not really one of us and we don't really understand why you want to be. It wasn't until I started telling people that I was trans, that then things started to change a bit. I think people understood why I'd been like that. Some people still weren't okay with it regardless, but I think it was my closer friends that I've grown up with. They find it was a lie, but that's why you've always been the way you are. Emma Goswell: 8:40
So it sounds like you did come out very young. But let's talk about that year then when you knew you actually. Well, you always knew, but you had the vocabulary for it when you were 12, which is pretty young compared to a lot of people I've spoken to on this podcast. But what was that year like? Knowing that you were something but not really having the confidence to tell anyone. So between 12 and 13, that must have been pretty hard, I guess. Arthur: 9:02
Yeah, it was quite difficult because I remember there being conversations having with friends where I remember one who was dating my trans friend at the time saying you know, arthur, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you came out to me as a trans man and like, because her girlfriend had been so recent, I was like I still don't want to tell you. And there were a few occasions like that where I could feel that people were subtly hinting that I guess, since the friend had come out and maybe they'd also done their research and found out that trans men existed, they'd gone oh, that's him, but maybe he doesn't know it yet, which was true. So yeah, it was very hard. I think it was very hard, particularly with trying to keep it from my family, because you know, obviously they're the people that you spend most time around when you're under 18. And I don't know trying to talk to them about why I didn't want to wear skirts, why I didn't want to wear makeup, without using this specific language, because I didn't know how they'd react and also, you know, I wasn't ready to tell my friends or anything. It was a very difficult time. Emma Goswell: 10:05
And you're 12? I mean, you are a child, that's. You know it's a lot. It's a lot to think about and go through at any age, but at 12, it's a lot, isn't it. Arthur: 10:13
Yeah, you know, I'd much rather have just been thinking about my biology homework or whatever than at what point do I tell my parents that I'd like a beard, Like it was just? Emma Goswell: 10:23
Wow, and how did the news about your friend go down then? How did her story develop? Did she tell people at school? Did she tell her family? Arthur: 10:33
Yeah, she did. I think she told her parents before she started telling people at school. And yeah, this is my dog, willie, by the way. Emma Goswell: 10:42
This is so funny. I thought I could hear a weird noise in the background, but I think this could be a podcast first. Suddenly, your dog has jumped onto you and I'm just now staring into the eyes of a. What a dash out is that? Yes? Arthur: 10:53
Oh it's gorgeous, yeah. So she told her parents and they were, I think, taken aback by it but were okay, and so let her eventually start wearing like women's clothes to school. I remember telling me that like the school went to her parents to ask whether she was allowed to wear a skirt rather than just letting her, and obviously her parents like yes, yes, she can. But at the time I didn't think it was an all right thing to do. But I think now people would be more aware that actually, no, that could be potentially putting a child in quite a dangerous situation to try and confront the parents about it. Emma Goswell: 11:36
And what about your own coming out then? So it sounds like it was at the age of 13, am I right? Arthur: 11:42
Yeah, so I told some of my close friends and my family and my family I don't think they really understood. It weren't particularly supportive, I would say it took them a long time to come around. Emma Goswell: 11:55
Did you sit them all down at once, or did you speak to your mum first or a sibling first? Arthur: 12:01
It was just my parents at first and they didn't take it particularly well. But I told my siblings separately and they were all fine, and so it wasn't until I was 20 that I got to tell my wider family, because my parents didn't want me telling anybody. Emma Goswell: 12:15
It's difficult, isn't it? And so what about friends? I presume did you tell a friend first, then before your parents. Arthur: 12:22
Yeah, I told my trans friend first and then her partner because I knew that they'd both obviously be fine with it, and then some of my school friends who again were like yeah, that makes sense. So they were all alright. I don't recall losing any friends over it, I think largely because my friend would come out first. It'd be very odd for them to be like she's fine, but you're not for some reason, so my friends were all great. Emma Goswell: 12:48
It sounds like you had a good mentor in a sense, in her and her friendship and that was really useful to you. Arthur: 12:54
Yeah, definitely being able to sit down and talk to her about things when things weren't all that great at home was a godsend really. I'm very happy to have had it. Emma Goswell: 13:04
So did your parents accept the fact that you were going to change Physically and you were going to go down this route? I guess that was. Was that a few years further down the line? Arthur: 13:13
They just flat out were not alright with it initially. So I don't think across their minds that, at least when I told them when I was 13. I don't think that they Anticipated that years down the line that they would end up doing it. I think they thought they just told me, no, that would be the end of it and Obviously it wasn't, and they eventually came around when I was 20, but yeah, I don't think they'd even done all that much thinking ahead at that point. Or we don't really talk about it because my parents aren't pleased about how they reacted back then and they said that had they known then what they knew now, then they wouldn't have reacted in the way that they did. I mean, I've moved on and they don't want to talk about it because they're not happy with how they were as people back then. Emma Goswell: 13:56
So I mean, this has the case for a lot of LGBT people, and they talk to the parents. It's almost like we have to educate our parents a little bit, isn't it? And sometimes there have to be a Bit of forgiving on both sides, do you think? Arthur: 14:08
Yeah, definitely, I think. Certainly some of the ways that I try to talk to them about it I keep looking back on it I can definitely see how I came across as like Rebellious teenager not wanting to do anything. Their parents said so and like I said that when talking to my parents as an adult, like I understand that perhaps the way I approached it with you wasn't the best, and they said that we understand also that the way we reacted Wasn't helpful either. Emma Goswell: 14:32
So and if it is a danger sometimes if you come out so young that the parents are more likely to turn around and go oh, it's just a phase, you know, if we ignore it It'll go away, type thing. Arthur: 14:42
Yeah, I think so. There's been so many advancements, even in the last, you know, 12 years, since I was first telling my parents that hopefully kids nowadays don't have as much as common a reaction as I think it would have been earlier on to assume that it was a phase. I think now parents at least not necessarily hugely educated, knowing exactly everything they need to do, but are aware that this is a possibility and so therefore are more likely to be accommodating than perhaps parents were 10, 15, 20 years ago. Emma Goswell: 15:14
So you were out while you were still at school. And I'm guessing, and did the school make any concessions? Did they let you use the private bathroom? Did they let you change uniforms? How did it work? Arthur: 15:25
Not exactly because, like people knew, but because I hadn't tried to register officially because my parents not being okay with it. It was just an oh yeah, that's the thing. So, like I joined a boys P set when I was about 15, but that was sort of the extent of it, I remember telling her. Well, I didn't tell the teacher. One of my friends told a teacher, I think, well meaning Lee, but I wasn't ready to tell the teacher that I was trans and I prefer to use this name now. And he Impressed and this is just laughed and said no, he's not. Yeah. And there was another time where I mentioned being Like it was out at break time and I just happened to mention being gay Around my friendship group. My math teacher was walking behind me and he said oh, I hope you're not. I think if I felt like I had more support than maybe I would have tried with the school a bit more. But even just you know that is passing comments, it's like that there's no point trying to take this any further. But since then I have been back to my old school because my sip, I've got quite few siblings who are younger than me and so I've gone back parents evening. So I found that, you know, in their library that got a whole LGBT section. Now Wow you know, my younger, my younger siblings were telling me of trans kids that come out and have been allowed to use the proper Facilities. You know, my siblings aren't that much younger than me, the like five, six years. So even in that amount of time, huge change. Emma Goswell: 16:50
That is great to say, isn't it really? Yes, and then, what stage did you actually make it official? And you know, go to the appropriate clinics and Go down that route. Arthur: 17:02
So when I was 20, my parents just came to me and said that you know they get it, that it's not a phase, it's not going to go away. And so they, they want to be supportive because I think they understood that you know, at 20, I'm gonna be finishing uni soon, I can potentially leave, and I think maybe that had gotten into their minds, that they were gonna Potentially lose me if they didn't change and you're still living with them at this point. Yeah, yeah, still living with them. And so, yeah, they came to me and like we don't get it, but we want to. So, like that day, like I was one of my siblings who didn't know, because my mom had asked me not to, because they said she said that my sibling was too young to understand. Yeah, but when I first came out, and so when they all came home from school and mom said everyone down was like Arthur's got something to tell you, and so told them. And then my mom reached out to her best friend and it turns out her best friend had a friend who had a trans son who was a couple years younger than me, and so my mom ended up going up to meet up with her to talk to her about what she did to help with her son. I think that was really helpful for her again, just having someone relatively close by and it's so useful for parents to help that shared experience, isn't it? Emma Goswell: 18:14
Because I don't think, you know, they necessarily know what to do or how to approach the situation, do they? Arthur: 18:20
know it's definitely not included in all those like Baby books that you get when you first become a parent. Emma Goswell: 18:24
I really is what do. Arthur: 18:26
Here's what to do when your child comes out as trans I know, having somebody close by is really helpful and I think Charities like mermaids and gendered intelligence, who create these spaces for parents to be able to come together and talk about the shared experience they're going through. It really invaluable because obviously as trans people, we need that, we need space with other trans people. But I think, to make sure they're doing it right, parents need other parents to talk to as well. Emma Goswell: 18:50
Absolutely well. Seven years, you know, between coming out to your parents and them really accepting it properly is a long time to wait, but I'm guessing that was a huge relief for you personally. Arthur: 19:01
Yeah, definitely, it all happened really really quickly. So, like I said, parents told me they'll find it, told the sibling that afternoon, then a couple of days later we had the rest of the family round. We told them and then because of the massive wait list for NHS gender clinics, my parents then were very grateful for paid for me to go private. So I then like a month later had an appointment at a private gender clinic and was on to Australia a few months later. So it all happened very fast in the scheme of things, when you consider how slow everything is on the NHS. Emma Goswell: 19:38
They had quite the turnaround then. By the sounds of it, yeah. Arthur: 19:42
I think like, even though it felt fast to me, I think they'd likely been thinking about it for a while. Yes, it had been like educating themselves to an extent behind the scenes, to know that this was something that isn't going to go away and they need to accept it if they want a relationship with me. Emma Goswell: 19:59
And how good were they with pronouns and your new name. Arthur: 20:03
My parents actually picked my name, good day. That was one of the things that I suggested to bring us closer together again, because obviously our relationship had been quite fractured during those years was that I'd been using several names in that time and none of them had really stuck. So I said, mum pick it. And so she picked Arthur. My middle name is David, which my dad picked, so Wow, do you know what? Emma Goswell: 20:24
I think you're the first trans person I've interviewed that has actually gone down that road, so that's really unusual, isn't it? Do you know anyone else that's done that? Arthur: 20:32
No, but I think, as I said, like it's just because, like I'd gone through, I think, four or five names in those seven years and none of them had really felt quite right, and so I was happy for them to have a go. My parents wanted me to be involved and asked me like, did I have any names that I definitely didn't want? And so I gave them the list of the ones that I've been using. Emma Goswell: 20:52
Oh, go on. What was on that? That might be interesting. Arthur: 20:54
So I went by Andrew for a while and I didn't think that really fit. Emma Goswell: 21:00
When. Arthur: 21:00
I first came out, I wanted to go by Castiel because I was a big fan of Supernatural when I was 12, 13. Emma Goswell: 21:06
Right, it's very embarrassing looking back on it. Yeah, I like Arthur, though. I mean it's. It's quite an old name, isn't it? It's a kind of nice, respectful, gentile, older person's name, isn't it? Do you like it? Arthur: 21:18
Yeah, it's my great-granddad's name and so when my mum suggested it, I was like, yeah, I like that a lot. Emma Goswell: 21:26
Let's talk a bit about football, then, and how important that is to you, because it's only what five years since your parents accepted it and you started on your journey. But it sounds like you are, you know, in a good place now, at 25, and you know, you found yourself, you're living a happy life and you've got football as this big presence in your life, haven't you? But do you think so that's fair? Arthur: 21:52
Yeah, definitely. I mean, football was very important to me as a child and looking back on it, I can see that it was a place that I could express my gender in a way that I wasn't able to in other places, by playing for a boys team, by going to football matches with my dad and then not really being any girls around at the time, just being dads and their sons, and so it's not really a space now, or I feel like it's purely for gender expression, but looking back on it, I think it was very important for that, and then now I play in LGBT plus leagues with the LGBT plus people and it's just a really nice welcoming space. Yeah, it's been wonderful for me and my mental health. Emma Goswell: 22:33
And how difficult is it to find other trans men to play with? Because I know you sort of set up your own practices, don't you, and you're very much part of a team. Arthur: 22:41
If you want to tell us a bit about that, yeah, so Trans Radio UK United, which is a very long name she's usually short onto Truck United we started by Lucy Clark, and obviously she's a wonderful, wonderful woman, and so I went to their game for Trans Day Visibility in 2022, where it was the first all trans feminine team in the world, and I wanted to go and support that, because trans women belong in sports. So after that, I found out they also had an all gender team. Because I wasn't aware of that before, I thought it was just for trans women, and so I signed up to play in a few matches for their all-inclusive team, which is made up of both trans people of all genders, but also some cis allies as well and after one of the matches. After that, lucy cornered me and was like, after what we've done for the trans feminine team, we'd like to have a go at creating a trans masculine team. Would you be up for captaining it if we could do that? And I was like, yeah, absolutely go ahead. So Lucy did it. Emma Goswell: 23:37
Oh, not just take part. Would you like to be the captain? That was a straight promotion, wasn't it? Arthur: 23:42
Yes, and so Lucy did a bunch of reaching out behind the scenes the contacts to recruit people to come and take part in this match on trans dead visibility 31st of March 2023. I'd met like one person before and that was because I invited him, because I knew that he was vaguely interested in football. Everybody else not met before knew vaguely from the internet a couple of them. That was it. So we spent the sort of 10 minutes before the match learning each other's names. Wow yeah. So we weren't going into it expecting to win. It was going into it to do it, so that it had been done and that people knew that trans men play football too, essentially. And so since then, lucy's been absolutely inundated with the press to join the team because stuff about the team went viral and so there's now hundreds of people on the list that could potentially play for truck at some point, and Lucy's done an incredible job of sorting out matches. They're in a few leagues now us, as the trans masculine team, hopefully going to be competing in a tournament next year, which is going to be really exciting. Emma Goswell: 24:42
And how important is it for you and the other guys that play as well to be part of that team and to play the sport that they love with other trans people. Arthur: 24:52
I hadn't anticipated how much I needed it, because I played for another team called Lefeters, which are an LGBT plus team but they're mostly cis gay men like. I hadn't realised how different it would be to be just amongst other trans people and how nice it was to be able to do that. And I think for a lot of the other guys. Some of the other guys like aren't open about being trans, they're stealth and keep it to themselves and so coming and playing with truck is the only exposure to the community they get. There are some people that are kind of pre-transition and are just wanting to get involved and meet other trans people. The team is UK wide. Do people travel from all over the place? Most of the people that I hang out with now are mainly based in London, but for that first match people fly down from Scotland, people drive down from Leeds. It was like all over the place. So I think Lucy's created something absolutely wonderful here. Emma Goswell: 25:40
Well, it's World First, isn't it? There aren't that many football teams made up of trans men. You are it pretty much. Arthur: 25:47
Yeah, since then I've seen a few, not specifically just for trans men, but a few like all trans teams pop up and where do you see the team going in the future, then? Emma Goswell: 25:56
where do you see it progressing? Arthur: 25:59
I know from speaking to Lucy. What she would like is for there to be like a five-aside team that's all trans in all major cities in the UK so that anybody who's trans, wherever they are in the UK, can come and play football in a safe space rather than having to travel to bigger cities like, for example. I mentioned being from Peterborough. The closest LGBT team to me was Leicester, which is now on the train away and so. Lucy's vision is that you don't have to get on the train for an hour to be able to join a trans team, that there will be one closer to you. Emma Goswell: 26:33
And, as you said, so important for your mental health, because there's something about the endorphins that are released when you play sport, but also the camaraderie you get for being in a team and to be in a team with other people who you have so much in common with must be so powerful. Arthur: 26:47
Yeah, it's so wonderful. I mean, obviously we lost our first match and I assume you've seen the photos. Emma Goswell: 26:53
Afterwards you wouldn't be able to tell from the photos that we lost at one because of the photo of who was jumping up and fist pumping in the air. Arthur: 27:04
That's Parker, so he's the one that scored our one goal, and he's absolutely fantastic footballer. Emma Goswell: 27:08
But that photo was just so euphoric. I mean it just screens trans joy to me and I'm really pleased that. I mean, obviously you'll get hatred and idiots from people on social media, but for me it just spread so much love and understanding. I think, didn't it? Arthur: 27:25
Yeah, definitely. I mean anticipated there would be a positive response. But before that match, really, I didn't talk about for all much on social media because most of my following had come from just people interested in trans stuff in general or in politics because I did lay of politics for a while and so I kind of avoided talking about football because I didn't think that my following would be interested in it and so I definitely did not anticipate that it would go viral and I would have so many messages from people all over the place wanting to get involved in the future, people in different countries saying, well, I'd love to do something like that here. How do I start up a similar team? It was so much like I didn't know what to do, to be honest. Emma Goswell: 28:03
And well done just for being a presence on social media and being openly trans, because that's got to be hard right? Because even with this podcast, when we put stuff out there, sometimes we get anti-trans bigotry and transphobia thrown at us. Arthur: 28:16
It's definitely gotten harder since a certain someone took over Twitter. Emma Goswell: 28:20
I was not even called Twitter anymore. Don't just can't bear it, I can't. Arthur: 28:25
Prior to that, like I've got a pretty extensive block list and I managed to create a space for myself where I was relatively alright, like I'd occasionally get a nasty comment, but it wouldn't be like on every tweet, it'd be like once a month or so. But since the new changes have come in, it's pretty much constant now, and so I don't spend any more near as much time on Twitter as I used to. Emma Goswell: 28:46
One thing we haven't really talked about are relationships. I mean, how have you navigated that as a trans gay man? Have you struggled, or has it been something that's been a constant presence in your life? Arthur: 28:57
I think as a teenager I was much more scared of it than I needed to be. Because, knowing that I was trans and seeing all the debates and stuff about whether it's transphobic to say you're not attracted to trans people and all of that kind of discourse, as a teenager thinking that, as an adult, going into the dating world is going to be absolutely horrible. And it wasn't. I'm engaged. I've been with my partner for three and a half years, and so it was nowhere near as hard as I had anticipated it was going to be. Emma Goswell: 29:28
Well, congratulations. So when is the big day? Arthur: 29:32
We haven't started planning yet because he's doing a PhD at the moment. I knew that if we started planning after I proposed to him, his PhD would not get done, so he's done until after that, so we're thinking probably 2025. Emma Goswell: 29:45
Oh, fantastic. Well, I always like to end by asking people for some words of advice. So what words of advice would you give to your 12 year old self? Do you think, arthur, going through that difficult time of just sort of understanding and getting the language but not really knowing what to do about having the confidence to verbalise it? Arthur: 30:08
I would say be patient, because my family didn't react the best when I first came out. I assumed that that was going to be it and they were never going to understand, and so what I advise my 12 year old self is just take time and that they will come around eventually. Emma Goswell: 30:21
Yeah, I mean, seven years is a long time when you're 12. Yeah, Nearly nearly your life again, isn't it? But you did it, and how grateful are you that you had that patience and you've got the life that you presumably wanted to be living all along. Arthur: 30:36
Yeah, and my relationship with my parents couldn't be better. My dad came to watch me play football a few weeks ago, which, as a 12 year old, I don't think I could have anticipated my dad coming to watch a gay football team but he did, and so did my grandparents and my siblings. And my mom has turned into an absolutely wonderful advocate for trans people and she does some charity work, and in her charity she's been very influential in changing policies to make sure that it's trans, inclusive, right. And so, yeah, I'm very glad that I was able to stick around, because it's definitely all been worth it. Emma Goswell: 31:11
And presumably they'll all be at your wedding in 2025 as well. Arthur: 31:14
Yes, that is the hope. Well, there was supposed to come to the proposal, but then they had to go and get COVID, didn't they? So they were not there. Emma Goswell: 31:21
They were there on Zoom, but Hang on a minute, so they were there on the proposal as a public event. Arthur: 31:27
Yes, so I had planned to do it in a remote location that's quite special to me and then my partner got the idea in his head that he'd quite like a public corner, and so I was like, right, so I did it near Greenfield Station. Greenfield is like a 10 minute train ride from Manchester Piccadilly. It's like general Oldham area in this place called Upper Mill, and it's somewhere that I used to go to a lot as a child because my granddad's from the area, and so that's where I wanted to ask him and I wanted to do it on this very specific spot that was by a stream, and so I didn't have a postcode that I could send to his relatives to like meet me here, and so I had to get all of my family to come so they could direct all of his family to be in the right place. And yeah, my family most of them got COVID and so didn't attend. So it was very, very stressful. And then my train got cancelled so I had to go a different route and have my granddad pick us up from a tram stop, and somehow my partner didn't question it that my granddad would just happen to be there at the same weekend as us. And then, yeah, got them, got him to the spot. Everyone was there. Everyone who couldn't make it because they either had COVID or had work commitments they can get away from, was on Zoom and yeah, well, you must have been pretty confident you were getting a yes at this proposal to have all these people there. He sent me the ring that he wanted after our first date, so I definitely knew that he wanted to get married at some point. Love it. Emma Goswell: 32:56
That's a gay man who clearly can't wait to get married. A massive thank you to Arthur for chatting to me and I do hope he gets to play in a team near his home soon. And, of course, the truck goes from strength to strength. So if you're trans, you love your footy and you want to get involved, it's probably best to go to their website that is truckunitedfccom. That's best-belt TRUK, truckunitedfccom. Or you can try and find their manager, lucy, on socials, lucy Clark. She is at Lucy Clark ref on X. Next time we are off to Atlanta, georgia, to meet Moe, who identifies as being non-binary and trans, and I think that the first person we've had on the podcast who's an identical twin. Moe: 33:47
I've had this feeling my entire life, but I didn't know. I remember conversations with my dad and being like I could dress like my brothers. I have four older brothers Like I could dress like them, I could wear boys' clothes, I can play basketball with my brothers and he's like you could. But so much of my identity was wrapped up in being an identical twin, so people expected us to be the same, they expected us to do dance together and all the things that they expected of girls in that environment, and so I didn't really get the opportunity, I would say in many instances, to step outside of that.
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