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We're broadcasting from the Tri Countyfoard dot com studios. This is Sports Talk seven nine day. It's time for coffee and company fueled by Thorntons on Sports Talk seven nine day. Now here's Nick coffee.
All right, let's get it started. Our number two here on a Wednesday afternoon. Thanks for hanging out with us. Coffee company fuel by Thornton's here on Sports Talk seven nine You don't forget you could take us with you wherever you go. Listen live on the iHeartRadio app listen live at seven ninety Louisville dot Com a lot of talk about this Louisville basketball team as they continue their winning streak last night with a dominant win ninety eight
to seventy three over SMU. It's a performance that I don't know if we should have seen it come in as far as the amount of points they scored and the records that were broke. Taekwondan single game record for three pointers made in a game broke last night by Rain Smith, who made ten of them, and then Francisco Garcia, which is kind of like a trivia question that would be good because I don't think a lot of people would guess that Cisco would be the one that has
the record, but he did sixteen assists. But he doesn't have the record anymore because now it belongs to Chuckie Hepburn. So this louisvill basketball team is rolling. They're playing at a level that I really didn't know possible a month ago, and I know as a louis A fan, I'm not alone and enjoying it. So let's talk some louis of basketball with C. L.
Brown.
The Courier Journal cl been a few weeks since we chatted. Where the hell did this team come from? I mean, I can't imagine you would have you would have guessed that when we talked late January that this team would be in this position, not only with this record, but they look pretty damn good.
Yeah, I mean, this role that they're on right now, I don't think anyone outside of the locker room really saw coming to this extent, you know where they're winning basically every game.
By double digits, even including on the road, with the exception that will win that pit. But I think it's probably been been kind of bubbling because they have played with the consistency of effort. I feel like this whole year, you know what I mean, you can't really point to I don't really see a letdown game now.
Maybe maybe you could say the Eastern game where where, But that was That's always a tough game coming out after Christmas break.
You know, you haven't had the same practice schedule, and you've got to spend time with your family. It's everything that kind of goes with it. So you're not going to be running on all most of the time coming off of that game.
So outside of that, like I hadn't really seen a spot where I was like, where's their energy, where's their effort? You know, that's been consistent with this team, and it's certainly helped translate into this nine game winning streak.
There on no doubt about it, And I'm totally with you. I don't feel like there's anything they've done at any point where you can you know, if they I think if they come out just completely flat, don't look ready to play, and they're not bringing the level of energy and intensity like that would be the first time, because I think throughout the entire year they've been been pretty good at that.
But but I feel like.
Right around the beginning of this month when they when they played North Carolina following that ekau win, I just there was a little bit of an extra edge to them. They were a little bit more. I mean, again, I hate emphasizing that there was a flip switched because it makes it seem as if they weren't playing hard before we got to January, but something was just a little bit different, and they're now not just playing well and winning and clearly putting themselves in a great position to
potentially be in the INSAA Tournament. I'm starting to kind of wonder, Okay, what is the ceiling for this team? Certainly they're not the best team in the country, and and right now with the good with the wins they have in the streak, their best win is still not you know, an elite win that's gonna stand out as a real, big, big resume type win. But I'm just thinking the way they're I'm not really thinking about the opponent.
I just think with the way they're playing as far as defense, and now they've got guys playing with a ton of confidence knocking down shots.
I mean, are you of.
The belief that this team is And I'm sure it's a product of two things. One they're playing well and also they're taking advantage of an acc that's not as good as it once was. But you had to guess between the two, which is it more about the fact that they've just turned it up a notch or more so the competition.
For sure that it's all about what U of L is doing, not necessarily the competition that they're playing, just just because I feel like they have a different level of confidence now than they had, you know, mid December, when they took some lumps.
The three game losing streak, losing four out of five during that stretch, you know, with Kentucky, Duke Ovis and Oklahoma. So I think that has, if anything, that is kind of the reason behind it because they all coming into the year, they didn't really know how their roles were
gonna be, you know what I mean. They didn't know how they were gonna fit with each other, They didn't know who they could depend on for X Y Z. I think we talked about the way back when when they went to the Bahamas, the Battle for Atlantis, and I look back at those three games that when I feel like Chucky Hepburn kind of emerged as the leader of the team and took more, took more of a burden in terms of the offensive production that he had, and I feel like he is the guy that sess
it tone for the whole team and once that kind of pecking order worked its way out, because I still feel like I remember the Tennessee game where to me, it looked like guys were looking at each other like who's going to be the guy to step forward? You know what I mean. Tennessee had got on a little run early in that game, and it just didn't seem like anybody was. And this is not discrediting the players.
It's just like they were figuring out on the fly, and we were watching it in real time as they figured it out. So but I felt like no one really knew who was going to be the guy. They were all kind of deferring to each other. But I felt like once Chucky asserted himself and they kind of everyone kind of fell into their roles and responsibilities. I feel like that that's what's helped his team to kind of takeoff. They have confidence in that now, and I dare say they have a swagger about them now.
Yeah, they do. I mean I think I think you're spot on. I think they're very sure of themselves. Their roles have been identified, and even before injuries happen, they were still feeling each other out, kind of trying to get comfortable, which you really like, can't You can't do that until you get into a season and you start playing games. I mean, it's one thing to play in the offseason and play in the summer, and those games
they played in the Bahamas. But yeah, I mean they've kind of just rounded into having a real identity and everybody understands their role, and they've got good balance to where if there is somebody that has an off night, which has happened recently, you got Javon Hadley going for thirty two. Rain Smith has been a guy that's ledging
scoring because he's just got insanely hot. So yeah, I mean, it does seem as if last night, specifically, just because of how dominant they were and the records that were broke, it seems as if they're starting to get some more attention than just you know, they're taking advantage of the a SEC. I think people are kind of realizing, hey, maybe this team actually could be somebody that could make it out of the of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. But Seal Brown is our guest joining us
here on Sports Talk seven ninety the ACC. How many teams do you do you think can get in? I mean, I think there's there's there's maybe five in the mix right now. One that is sure to get in, Duke, and then Louisville looks to be in great shape. But after that you got some bubble teams. I mean, I guess I'm asking you to predict the future here, but I mean, what's the realistic chances of this of this league getting four to five teams in.
Yeah, it's like playing space. I got three of the possible right now.
Yeah.
I think if the season member right now is being Duke, Louisville, Clinton, and wake Forest would be kind of that bubble team that got in if they ended actually ended now, Carolina would probably still get in.
On the right side right now.
Yeah, they're really looking looking at projecting this going forward. I wouldn't have them in because I feel like they're going to lose some more. I just don't think. I don't think they have it. I don't think Hubert Davis has the right kind of roster. They have glaring holes. Their offenses is kind of behind schedule, and I think that's gonna end up being meaning that the a SEC
is only going to get four teams in. And unlike past years, I mean these recent past what four seasons where the a SEC ended up with someone in the final four. I don't know that I see that this year, but I mean we'll see, you know, comes down the matchups and everything in the tournament. But I don't even think Dukes as well as they're playing right now.
And it really hurts Duke because he's playing in this water down ACC isn't really going to do anything for them when they get in the postseason and have to play one.
Possession games and tight games. You know, we don't know if they've learned from earlier in the year, you know, until they're back in that situation, and I'm not sure they're going to be tested like that in the ACC.
So yeah, I mean it's a wild thing to think about because it's just it. I mean, it's a scenario I never envisioned when it comes to ACC basketball, and I think Duke has really good pieces, a lot of young talent. I think Shire went out and got specific guys from the portal that may not be big names,
but man, they fit exactly what he wants. So I'm still bullish on this Duke team, but you're right, it can't be healthy for him to go through two and a half months of play where they're really not getting I mean, look, if Louisville ends up being the best team that Duke played from January on, I mean, that's as well as louis was playing right now. They weren't playing that good I mean when they played Duke. So I mean it's kind of scary. Let me throw this
act you. Casey Jacobson, who does a former Stanford player who now works for Fox Sports. Duke came up during their halftime show the other night during one of the Big Ten games, and he said something that I thought, Wait a second, that's crazy, this is nonsense. But then I'm like, wait a second. As crazy as that sounds like, he may be right that Duke's kind of going through the Gonzaga stuff this year.
I mean, the rest of the ACC is not.
As bad as I guess, the the WCC that Gonzaga plays in, but still Duke is believed to be an elite team. But they're going to go a long time without really being challenged. I mean, you've covered the ACC for a long time, obviously with your roots in North Carolina. You know what this league has been historically in college basketball. I mean, I know I've asked you this many times in our conversations, but like, how did we get here?
I know coaches retired and clearly that happens, but this is this is crazy.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, it is crazy.
I think some of it has to do with the coaching hires that were made. You basically replaced Hall of famers with unproven and untested guys, even John Shire, you know, I mean they got to the elite a last year.
In my opinion, this is so backhanded. I apologize, I like and I like Duke.
But I love.
Yeah. I mean, if if my guy doesn't go down, now, I'm forgetting his name to guard for Houston last year who got hurt in that game. If he doesn't go down I felt like Houston wins that game easily. It was like they played Jamal Jamal Shed yep. You know he twisted his ankle in the middle of that Sweet sixteen game and goes on a win by three. But and then they lost to in some state, an eleven seed. You know that also beat him in the ACENC tournament.
So John Shires untested. Hubert Davis. You look at the course of his three seasons of Carolina. Yes, they got to the final four in the National Championship in his first year, but really the regular seasons has had three bad regular seasons. His first year wasn't good until the very end when they came on in February. The second year they missed the tournament. That year was legit. They earned the number one seed when they see regular season, and this year is another year where it's looking like
bubble too. So you know, for those three red Autrey Syracuse is struggling this year. It's just, you know, no one seems to be able to get George Tech in order and back playing at a high level. Wake Forest. As much as I love Steve Forbes in his time there, they haven't been back to the tournament, you know since
what was it, twenty seventeen under Danny Manning. Like all of these things happening, and of course, you know, for Tony Bennett to retire at the beginning of the season and Virginmy can't reset at that point, you know, so that this year was just going to be a wash. They didn't have a lot of talent to begin with. So all of those things happening at one time has
just left this league decimated. And I think, you know, we're seeing all of that play out and how bad they've been in non conference play.
Yeah, I think Louisville, you know, they did something. So in fact, Louis Louisville made a higher that made sense and was successful early on when they moved on, when they moved to Chris Mack and then obviously that ended poorly, and then they brought in Kenny Payne, and that that kind of higher that that Kenny Payne was as far as a guy that the biggest reason he was even mentioned is because of his connection to the school. You're seeing that elsewhere and I mean, I think Red Autrey,
that's that's not working out really at all. I mean with Hubert Davis, I mean it's it's clearly much more successful than others have been, but for the Carolina standard, not so much Carolina's North Carolina.
Uh So.
I mean I think the ACC basketball programs, if they go out and get a guy that has a similar profile of Pat Kelsey when he was hired at Louisville, I feel like the resources are there to where those kind of coaches. You never know if it's going to work out or not, but they should be able to have to have some success. But I feel like these hires here in the next couple of years are going to be really vital to this league, you know, getting some credibility back. It's not just about where you stand
in regards to the power leagues. I mean, this league is at a level that I never thought possible, and I'm sure I'm hopeful if this is kind of a one off as far as where they are right now.
But you know, let me give you an example. I think, and I think I mentioned.
This to you and Charlotte at the ACC basketball media day, like Michael Shrewsbury was a guy that I feel like that neat like that working out would have been a good sign that the ACC can get back. I mean, it's just one team, but he's somebody that took over a job at Notre Dame that I feel like, despite it being a football school, you can win there. And last year they showed signs. This year they're they're not
very good. So I don't know. It just makes me sad because the league is of course, you know, and I'm sure it makes you even more sad than me because of you know, you followed it longer than I have. But I just I find myself at times, you know, hearing the the the pundits talk about bracketology that kind of stuff, and I want to be defensive, and you know, think, wait a second, you're talking about the ACC here, and then I'm like, well wait a second, you're right, Like it's it's bad yeah.
Yeah, well I do think I do think Shrewsbury is ultimately gonna work out there. It definitely hurt when yea, I love them Burt in their guard went down and and you know, I don't remember how many gangs he missed, But it's tough to basically you lose your best player. Didn't have to try and compensate.
It's just a second.
You're already working with a thin line. Yeah, there's a thin margin of error there, notre Dame. But but to your point, you know, I think the main thing is that a lot of schools need to know there are other talented guys who didn't go to your school who
would work at your school. And and you know, I'm looking dead at Carolina and Duke and Syracuse when when I say those kinds of things, I do think it's it's great when it works out when you have a Roy Williams who who loves his album Mater and and could return and keep it where you knows as a historic we've been. But taking a chance on Hubert, you know, who hadn't had any head coaching experience, I think we're
seeing it. We're seeing how it plays out. It's it's It's a gamble that I don't know if it's worth taking, and I think I think the ACC is paying for that those kind of decisions right now.
So Hubert Davis again did make it to a Final four, and really, I mean, he could easily have a national championship had they played a little better in that second half against Kansas, And that has value. But I mean, how are I mean not to say, you've got your your finger on the pulse of the entire North Carolina fan base, but I know you are connected there much more than most. I mean, are they even talking about like wanting a different coach. He's one of their own.
I just don't feel like they would make a move. But what the hell do I know? Maybe they maybe they would like is his job in any way? Like if they missed the tournament this year, I mean, will there be talk about people wanting a change?
Oh? The talk is? Are the talk started? Okay? They took over the talk, you know, in the middle of that first season, in the middle of the regular season, when they not only lost the Marquee games, they lost Biggs. I mean, I remember I was out at the game when they played Kentucky in Vegas, and uh, I can't remember the exact some of these exact stats, but it was like they got Kentucky got what they wanted in the lane. Like it was an embarrassing loss, you know.
And the talk has always been early on.
That he wasn't ready for the game, he wasn't ready for this position, and maybe they should have gone with even wes Miller, who had at least been a head coach before and is a Carolina guy and you know, is an up and comer. I'm not sure that wes Miller is in any conversations right now because since Annetti is is kind of brutal to watch offensively currently.
But but still like the talk has been there, you know, in terms of his hubret this right is the right guy for the job. So it has picked back up. I don't think that they and a position right now where they would make a move this season, even if Carolina doesn't make the tournament. But I do think if they don't make the tournament, then it's it's, you know, a make or break season next year, for for real, with who.
Do they call with Carolina if that happens, who's the phone again?
And who knows? There's there could be a name at that time. That's that's you know, that's not even talked about now.
But like, who do you? Who? Do you? Where do you? What direction do you think they'd go in?
Well, I mean, without getting too deep in the weeds here, I think there's a bit of a power struggle at Carolina right now between the board of Trustees at least some members of the board of Trustees and the athletic director of Bubby Cunningham. And if Bubba Cunningham is still around, then I would imagine they still try and keep.
It in the family.
Carolina guy, and you've got you know, you've got some people out there. I think Jerry Stackhouse's name would come back up, even though you know, you could look at his time at Vans and say that's a failure, But that's Mandy. You know, it's a lot tough for to get talent there and you know, get the kind of players he would have any problem getting.
And he's really well respected in basketball as far as as far as the coaching fraternity.
Yes, exactly, and you know so so I'm sure, well not, I'm sure I think Bubba would still try and keep it in house. But if somehow Bubba gets forced out by the board of trustees or decides he no longer wants to deal with any of that stuff right now, then I think they would go out outside. And you know, obviously we've seen some of the top coaches who declined to move, like Scott Drew who just felt comfortable at Baylor.
So Carolina might get some of that too. But obviously it's a desirable job, so I don't think they'd have too much problem getting getting somebody who was experienced, getting somebody who's approven winner to come here and take over.
Yeah, I mean I think Carolina it clearly. I mean there's I think there's three jobs in college basketball that are all the best jobs in different ways, and I think that's Carolina, Kansas, and Kentucky in no particular order. I would give Kentucky the nod just because of how many different coaches have won national championships there. But clearly all three of those jobs are are phenomenal. And when when Roy stepped down a few years ago, I remember
thinking to myself, like, well, it's North Carolina. So like maybe Mark Few would leave Gonzaga, it's North Carolina. Maybe Jay Wright would finally leave Villanova because you know, it's it's Carolina. So that's one of those schools that, like when it is open, you know, you could there's no name that I feel like is sort of off the radar, and you know, you could say the same thing about Duke, and they decided to kind of keep it in the family.
I don't know.
I just the more you mentioned Hubert, he obviously played there and he's a Carolina guy. Like, it's got to be hard for Carolina fans. They don't want to be bashing a guy that they genuinely want to be successful, more so than they would if it was a different guy coaching them who didn't play there.
But yeah, man, there's.
There's not I mean, can you give me some good examples in basketball at the college level where they've they've hired a guy and the biggest factor that made him a big candidate was his connection.
Like, has it ever worked out anywhere?
Oh? Wow, that's I would have to really do that.
I mean, I don't think it has.
I mean, there's some guys who lasted, you know, have have been more successful than the likes of Kinny Payne and whatnot. But like, I just feel like that's a that that's it just doesn't seem to work out.
Well, let me say this about Kenny because I don't want to get I don't want this to get too lost. When you look at his resume, he did have a resume of someone who should be taking a step from assistant coach to head coach. You know what I'm saying. I mean, his years being number one assistant at Kentucky under cow, having the experience, the NBA, experience with the Knicks, like all those things, being being you know, viewed as one of the top recruiters. All of those things were
supposed to, you know, equate to a successful formula for him. Now, the things that you don't really know until you see somebody take over a program is how they run it, how they run their practice, you know, all of the details that make you know, basically determines winning and losing. We didn't know all that about Kenny. We didn't know how he would deal with the media and et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, I mean, I still feel like that was the right hire.
Oh look, let's be let's be real when that happened. I mean, I'll keep it real. When that happened. I can't think of many, if any, that were critical of it as far as like, you know, nobody knew exactly how it's going to work out, So I'm not talking about what people predicted, but when that happened, I mean, everybody said it made sense. And then you know, sometimes you know, you learn the hard way that that wasn't
the right decision. So look, I it's hard for me to be super critical of heard as far as how that you know, him hiring hiring Kenny Payne, because given with the program was at the time and what the realistic options were, I would have done the exact same thing, and you know it it just didn't work out.
Yeah, yeah, And you know, I mean the jury is still out on a lot of guys.
I do feel like the jury is still out on John Shire because if you if you go by Duke standards, dupers measured him in final fourth national championships, not.
Not ACC titles, not you know, seeds A SEC tournaments. Yeah, not number one recruiting classes.
Uh.
He certainly has done those things well so far, but it's gonna come down to what he does in March and April that really defines him and you know, this team is setting him up for a big fall. Estate don't come through because they might go undefeated in the ACEC regular season, you know, And so I.
Think they will.
They have they have a thud in the sweet sixteen, you know, like it'll be like, yeah, with the number one player, presumptive number one player, number one draft pick of the NBA, probably probable National Player of the Year as a true freshman, Like it's gonna be like, eh, I don't know if Shine working out or not, you know. So, yeah, a lot of questions with this league, A lot of questions, not a lot of uh, not a lot of light
at the end of the tunnel, you know. Thinking even moving ahead for the league as a whole, I think it looks very bright and Louisville right now.
Sure, yeah, but they went but they went through a dark era that none of these skills will probably ever go through. So I think that's why it's been so enjoyable, enjoyable for fans. And look, let's be real, Louisville being as bad as they were for three and a half years is a factor. One of the factors is as to why the league kind of has the reputation I mean, it's one of the many.
But yeah, they when.
People talk about the league falling apart in hoops in recent years, trust me, I know that Louisville is one of those programs that they're thinking of it. Cl As always, I appreciate you making time for us. Always enjoy the conversation, my man. Keep up your great work at the CJ and they we'll.
Talk soon, all right, appreciating Nick.
All right, take care of that. Cel Brown of the Courier Journal. Good stuff, good stuff. I always love talking college tops with cl which you know is why we went way long on that segment. And now that means I got to get to a break. But I want to react to some of the some of our conversation there and keep this thing rolling along. We're about halfway through here on a Wednesday. It's coffee and Company Fuel. Beth Thornton's on Sports Talk seven ninety all right, this
is coffee and Company fuel. Beth Thornton's here on Sports Talks seven ninety five oh two. Five seventy nine hundred is the number if you want to jump in and give us a call. Text line the L and N Federal Credit Union text Line five oh two sixty five three zero seven ninety Texas. Nick, your conversation with cl reminds me that a lot of big programs that open up typically get it wrong by going after a big name rather than just trusting a guy who's been successful.
Louisville doing this with Pat Kelsey should remind all other programs this is the way to go.
Well.
I mean, you're well, let me back up a second here, Louisville getting Pat Kelcey and it working out really well thus far. I mean that's not I mean, I don't know if that was a real popular move at the time. And I'm not even necessarily talking about the fans like Louisville moving on from Kenny Payne and hiring a guy that you had never heard of unless you were a big time college basketball fan and you really just you know, we're following the sport more so than just the top
programs in your team. So I mean, I say that to actually feel like we should be giving a little more credit to Josh Hurd, because he clearly saw something that that many other schools didn't notice and didn't value. I guess, because I could be wrong, I don't think Pat Kelsey was a candidate for any job or was being rumored to be in the mix elsewhere after having a great run at Charleston, he eventually probably would have.
But you know, I don't think I don't think what Louisville's doing is something that other schools are just going to be able to go and find a Pat Kelsey, Like there's a bunch of them growing on trees. I mean, I will say this when it comes to the the bigger programs out there, Like if Virginia opens up, which it's going to by the way, it's actually already opened.
So Virginia, that job's open, Miami's open, and you know, Duke probably not going to be opening unless you know, something crazy happens the rest of the way.
In fact, I think Duke Duke is weird.
Duke could be unsuccessful further standard, maybe even below, like I mean, maybe they do. Maybe has a few years where they're like middle of a pack in the ACC. Hard to imagine that right now, But like I just think, like coach Kate is Duke basketball, there was really no existence of the program. So I just have a hard time seeing him not having the ultimate say so in Duke basketball for as long as he wants, and I just have a hard time thinking he would ever move
on from john Shire. But like North Carolina, you know, those are the kind of programs to where if they are trustworthy of their resources and what they can do, like what they can provide a coach, the vehicle essentially that they give these coaches. Then finding a guy like Pat Kelsey who hasn't just been successful, He's been very successful at two different places. Right, there's levels of success.
Pat wasn't just an up and coming coach that took a Charleston program and it went the program from the seller to you know, the tournament. I mean, let's be real, Pat never has never won a tournament game. And you know that's people are gonna mention that was mentioned when he was hired. I mean, I get it. Tournament wins matter a lot. But sometimes dudes are average coaches or maybe slightly above average, and then they go on one big tournament run and it looks as if like they're
superstars and it just doesn't work out that way. So tournament runs, you can't. Tournament success is valuable and you shouldn't ignore it. But like Pat Kelsty losing with Charleston and winthrom in the NCAA tournament when he's when he's playing a two and a three seed, that doesn't really tell you that he's a bad coach at all. So I guess what I'm saying is I can't think of a program that's of Louisville's caliber because honestly, there's not
many of them. We're talking about the best programs in the country here, like, and again, I know Louisville's not the best, but certainly they're in that they're they're in the in the top tier. I think there's an elite tier and Louisville's in the tier right behind that, and that tier is pretty small too, So programs similar to Louisville that have that have made the kind of move
because look, louisll got it wrong this past time. I still don't believe they got it wrong with MAC because I think that had potential to work, and I don't know if it would have ever worked that long term where he would have Louisville back in final fours and things like that, but I mean early on it was successful. And I think his coaching early on, specifically with you know, his first couple of teams, like that was a factor
in why Louisville was having some success. So that kind of higher meaning the Mac that said Xavier that is just you know, at a good job having success.
Get you mean, if you can get a one seed at a play.
Like Xavier, that that Xavier can give you really everything you need. I mean Mac got a one seed and signed a top ten class in Xavier. That kind of made it seem as if he'd never leaved because he's got the resources there to where he can bring in elite talent and he can, you know, plays in a league in the Big East where you can have a
number one seed. So coaches like that in the in the now, I just don't really know where they are, right, Like, there's guys out there that are successful, but I mean I think this will be an interest in case study, right Like, is there a Pat Kelsey out there meeting a guy that has been really good? And I know there's some, but like I like, for example, the guy that's at Drake Now, I mean, he's got Drake Rowland. He was a super successful coach at the D two level. Like,
I think he's a really good basketball coach. I think that you know, given what he's proven to be as a coach with the resources and an elite job like a Carolina would have. I feel like he doesn't have to be a great coach, but he is and he's got those resources, So I feel like that would be a really successful fit. But I also have a hard time thinking that they would ever consider hiring a guy McCollum is his name, because you know, nobody's ever.
Heard of him.
So Louisville did it in a way, but it also wasn't as big of a surprise because like, had Louisville hired Pat Kelcey before they hired Kenny Payne and it went from Mac to Kelcey, that'd be weird first and foremost, but also like it would have been like, wow, that's who Louisville got because Louisville was so awful during the KP era, Like there wasn't as much of a shock
as far as getting a guy like that. So other programs that are in the status of Louisville, will they have like will they be comfortable doing that, because like if you're remembered because you make a big tournament run, like if Dusty May had the regular season records that Pat Kelsey had at Charleston, but he did not make a deep run at FAU. Nobody would know who the hell he was. He would never get hired. And I'm not saying that to pick on him, Like he may
be great at Michigan, I don't know. But Pat Kelsey's success at both places proved that he was a good coach. And the more you think about it, like, yeah, it's a different level, right, you got to be able to recruit. You're playing way better teams night in and night out than you do in the Colonial Athletic Conference and whatever. Winthrop's in the Big South. But again, if the resources are there, like, it should be able to work. There's
no guarantees. Sometimes it's not. But yeah, I think if you're you know, you should be able to look at Louisville and what they're doing and maybe not think you can just go get that same kind of guy. But if a coach has proven to be really successful, you're and he's walking.
Into a job.
Especially now when you can buy players like that, I think it makes it easier. You're not having to sell us much on your individual like you know, coaching and all that, because the end of the day, money matters. Now, let's go to the phone line. Five two five seventy nine hundred is the number. Let's go to Jerry. Jerry, what's happening?
I had to call in Nick. I get so tired of listening to cl make excuses for Kenny Payne. I mean, are we kidding ourselves this far down the road and he's still saying that he had a resume. I mean, well, I said it a hundred times.
I think Cel's point, more so was just that at the time, Kenny, you know that was a move that that made sense to a lot of people. But you know, clearly hiring a guy with no head coaching experience, I mean it backfired in a major way.
Okay, but but he said on there he had the resume. He did not have the resume. Let's get that straight. I mean, come on, he had not been a head coach, and you're gonna you're gonna handing the keys to a brand new corvette. You know you're gonna give him a top ten program. I mean, it's a joe. It's a joke for him to get on here still spouting those excuses. You know, I read all his articles last year and I got zero respect for the guy because it.
Was all excuses.
He always had the excuse for the gay.
There was no excuses.
Okay, here here. Last night was one of the best nights as a Louisville basketball fan I've had in three or four years. And I tune in and I listened to that crap. Come on, man, challenge him. He needs to be challenged. He did not have the resume. He had the resume for Austin p He had the resume for Tennessee Tech. Let them hire him.
Look, Jerry, Jerry, you know look, let me let me respond because because you and I are on the same page, Kenny, I brought this up when he didn't get hired, when they hired back, and I brought it up throughout the process.
Whenever he was hired.
I thought it was a red flag that he would not take a pay cut, because you have to take a pay cut, like Kevin Keats. He's clearly not a great coach right now this year, and I don't know how good he is overall, But Kevin Keats took a substantial pay cut to go coach at you see Wilmington. You know why, because he bet on himself. He sacrificed because he felt like he could could he's he could succeed there and then jump up. Kenny not doing that absolutely stood out to me. You and I have had
the conversation before. I didn't feel like today Cel was acting as if, you know, Kenny had a great resume. I think he was more so dismistioned. And look, let's be real, when when when Kenny was hired, I don't think being just an assistant for Cal looked as look looked the same then as it does now. Again, clearly he was just you know, I mean later we learned that even in Kentucky, Kenny wasn't doing much of anything. He was just kind of around and you know, was believed to be a relationship.
Kind of guy and all that.
So I don't really disagree with anything you're saying as far as Kenny Payne, but I didn't necessarily feel that like today. Like last year, I remember cl wrote an article that that insinuated that that Kenny Payne could be the next day Hurley and and I remember thinking that's really embarrassing, like that was that's that's asinine, that's insane. But like today, I don't feel like he was making excuses about Kenny. I think he was just saying that you know him at that time, being a long tenured
assistant at under Cal, you know would be well. I think the reason you you, you felt the need to kind of call in and chirpist because I think c L kind of wanted to defend Kenny, when, in my opinion, I don't really think there's any defend I don't think there's anything you can you can defend about the way Kenny did every aspect of this job.
Well, here's my here's my thing. I'm just gonna tell it like I feel it. Okay, you allowed him to say that again today on your show, and I'm disappointed that you didn't call him out because he said it could. Because here's the deal. One of the reasons again I listened to you, is you're the one that you're the first media guy in Louis Wille to stand up and say this is not working. But then you allow a guy to get on your show that you I don't think you're.
I don't, but I don't think he did what you're saying he did. I don't think he defended Kenny Payne and acted like Kenny Payne was a good coach. The only comment he made that I that I that from what I can tell, UH got this result from you is that he said he said the word resume and that he didn't have a bad resume. I don't think he d we talked about Kenny Payne was mentioned maybe fifteen seconds in that conversation that was about twenty minutes long.
So I mean, I hear you, but like if he would.
Have told me Kenny Payin was good and it was a good it was a great hire, and you know, like I didn't hear any of that from cl I think you're probably basing that off of some things that were said last year when he did make excuses, which you are correct, but today that's not what the conversation was.
Well, I'm gonna add it like kids, Okay, I don't enjoy the guy. You just now stated yourself that he wrote an Asonine article. Why would you have a guy on your show and allow him to talk about his resume again because.
He wrote one column that I.
Didn't want an Athonine article.
Look, I say asinine things. I've been wrong probably a bunch of times within this segment, Like Jerry, I appreciate the call man, and good to hear from you. I know you're gonna tell us the way you feel, and I appreciate.
That that's that's what this is supposed to be.
But like, because I strongly disagreed with a column and I thought it was asinine that I should just never converse with somebody who I do respect as a person, and I respect him in his career and what he does as a journalist. I've I've said stupider things than then than he has, I'm sure, So like, I mean, trust me, I don't. I don't bring people on the show, uh to to talk and get their opinions because I'm of the opinion because I'm of the opinion that they've
never been wrong. In fact, it makes better conversation if you're actually going back and forth with somebody and you are sharing different thoughts and having different opinions. So I get it, I'm as I mean, I get PTSD about Kenny Payne like anybody else. But I did not at all think that the conversation today with C. L. Brown was was zero point zero one percent about Kenny Paine.
We were talking about other programs that have made the same in fact, I brought it up basically saying that going that route has not worked very well in recent I mean, I can't think of any example where it has worked. That's why I got brought up. And all CL did was say, is you know, when it comes to Kenny Payne at the time, you know, he did have a resume that showed that he was next in line for a job, and I didn't feel the need to cut him off and correct him because I don't
think that's an insane thing to say. It's just that, you know, again, Louisville hired him because he was connected us. That was the reason why he was a candidate. He also was an assistant coach. So we need to move on. I gotta get to break will probably double these breaks
up because I went way too long here. But I mean, I respect Cel Brown and there's been many things he said that I'm sure I disagreed with, but that's not how I decided, like I think in just my opinion, And he never really kind of answered or responded to me because I said it twice to him. I think Jerry a lot of what his reaction there was based off of not what CL said in the twenty minute conversation that I mean, I think he said one thing
and that was it and we moved on. I think Jerry's basing it off of some things that were said last year when there were excuses made about Kenny Payne and Cel did that. I think at the time Seal genuinely believed that Kenny was going to be able to somehow get it working here.
But you know that didn't happen.
That was wrong, and I disagreed with his column and I had him on I believe at the time he wrote it and we talked about it. So you know, anyways, quick break, in fact, probably not super quick because we're way too late. We'll see if we can double these up here, come back and start with a fresh hour at five o'clock and hope you stick around. It's coffee and company. Feel abut Thorn's right here on Sports Talk seven ninety