This message comes from NPR Sponsor Sony Pictures Classics with DADDO, a new film starring Dakota Johnson as a young woman who hails a cab and Sean Penn as a seasoned cabbie, taking a journey of discovery on a trip from JFK to NYC, opens only in theaters Friday, June 28th This episode is brought to you by Synchrony Bank, there's talking about saving and there's doing it. Synchrony Bank empowers you to tackle your saving skills with a newsworthy 4.75% APY on their high yield saving
The Enjoy flexible access to your money and knowing it's earning a great rate. With no monthly fees or minimums, it's never been easier to take control of your financial future. Go to SynchronyBank.com slash NPR. Remember FDIC. Head up! This episode contains adult themes. Hey everyone, you're listening to Code Switch. I'm B.A. Parker. And I'm Gene Dumbi. So Gene. It seems like every few weeks we hear mutterings of a new book band.
Whether it's Iowa school districts trying to remove over 3,000 books from its schools, or the governor of Utah signing a bill making it easier to band books like The Blueest Eye from Tony Morrison or Judy Blooms forever. Like who bands Judy Blooms? Right. It's just like never ending game of whack-a-mo between the censors and the people being censored.
I mean, a Florida school district literally just banned a book called Band This Book because they didn't like the way this children's book talked about book bands. I, to steal your word, it's bananas. So Code Switch is starting a new monthly series where we deep dive into the many facets of the book bands here in the states. We'll begin it to all these ongoing battles over these books, the statewide implications of these bands, and the kids who are fighting back. Exactly.
So a little bit later, we're going to hear from the author of one of the most banned books in the United States. But first, we're getting into what makes a book band a book band in the first place. This episode's sponsor is PWC, which offers the following message. A robot may not be coming for your job, but competitors are coming for your market share. PWC pairs the right tech with the right solutions to help you gain a competitive edge.
Re-imagined operations from the cloud, fuel innovation with responsible AI, and detect risks before they become headlines, human lead and tech powered, it's all part of the new equation from PWC. This message comes from an PR sponsor Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to MintMobile.com-switch.
This message comes from an PR sponsor, Bluehost. Try Bluehost Cloud. The hosting plan made for WordPress creators by WordPress experts. With 100% uptime, fast load times, and 24-7 support, your sites can handle high traffic spikes. Visit Bluehost.com. Last year, over 20,000 people joined the Body Electric Study to change their sedentary screen-filled lives. And guess what? We saw amazing effects. Now you can try NBR's Body Electric Challenge yourself.
Listen to updated and new episodes wherever you get your podcasts. So to start off this series on band books, I wanted to check in with one of NPR's reporters who's been covering this, Elizabeth Blair. My name is Elizabeth Blair and I am a cultural correspondent in the NPR Arts Culture Hub. Hi, Elizabeth. Hi Parker. So you did a piece recently about the book band, it's where NPR.
And I think a lot of people can see this book banding discussion as like a black and white issue that people are either pro-banding explicit books or against any kind of censorship. Is there any nuance to this debate? I mean, some of the books that are challenged are books that have been challenged for years to kill a mockingbird, for example. But there are a growing number of books that are related to race, gender and sexuality that are being challenged these days.
And I think some of it is really parents trying to look out for their kids and what they're exposed to. And some of it is political. Yeah. You know, nobody wants to be called, somebody wants to ban books. So the people who are, you know, coming to their school boards and saying this particular text is inappropriate for whatever reason I want it removed, they take issue with the term book band. I interviewed a gentleman in Carroll County, Maryland and he called the term a dog whistle.
A ban is no access to material whatsoever. My name is Joe Tier and I am a concerned, grandparent and parent. I think it's designed to obfuscate the constructed dialogue that should occur about age-appropriate content. It can be a dog whistle that's used to incite anger against those who are opposed to limiting sexually explicit content in public school libraries. But, you know, I do think that there can be nuance.
I know that librarians are very worried because if a book that's been challenged or removed is found on the shelves, they could face consequences. They could be fined. In some cases, I think they could be fired. This woman I interviewed, Mona Kirby, is the head of the master's program in school librarianship at McDaniel College in Westminster, Maryland.
To me, band is the book's not on the shelf, but I could certainly see the different flavors of that word and that's why a discussion about ideas is always so enriching. And she talked about how in her day, she didn't have as many challenges as that we're seeing now, but sometimes those challenges became great opportunities to talk about ideas and to see both sides and for people to kind of find the common ground.
And she's not seeing very much of that now because I think some of these school librarians are just being inundated with challenges. Yeah. We've all seen the headlines over the last few years about bookbams around the country, but can you set the scene for us? Like, how widespread is this? Like, what is the process for how a book actually gets banned? So when we talk about what's the scene, the American Library Association says that the number of bookbams has skyrocketed.
That's up 65% from 2022. But there's a question of sort of how many people are doing the challenging of books, the Washington Post did a study looking at the year 2021 to 2022, and it turned out that just 11 people were responsible for filing 60% of the book challenges. So that is not a majority of Americans. There are more people challenging books now and it's more of a concerted effort now, led by groups like moms for Liberty.
I do think that the term book ban is really provocative and gets people, you know, riled up. But, you know, I did do a story where the first line of the piece is nothing says, read me like band book. Ooh, yeah, because, I mean, we're all interested, right? If this is the thing that people seem so upset about it, it really sparks your curiosity. That's so cynical Elizabeth. But it may be in a good way. I mean, as someone else put it to me, anything that gets people reading, it's fine with me.
That's fair. And now I'm just going to spend the whole summer reading band books. And there are some very good ones on the list. There are. Yeah. Elizabeth Blader, thank you so much. Thank you. So, Parker, you talked with the author of one of the most band books. Yeah, that's right. I spoke with my carado author of Flamert. It's a book about a teenage boy named Aiden and it takes place one summer while Aiden is at sleep away camp.
Now, over the course of the book, Aiden learns a lot about himself while he's coping with bullying he's experiencing for his body, for being a biracial Filipino kid, and for his queerness. And a lot of what Aiden goes through in the book is inspired by the author's own experiences as someone who shares a lot of Aiden's identities. Are you standing during this interview? I'm standing. I'm standing queen now, like sitting. I was really up in at my back. So I stand up my desk now.
Yeah. My name is Mike Carado. I'm an author and illustrator. I remember I read something that said Mike Carado understands teenage boys. The same way Judy Bloom understands teenage girls. I mean, is that feel like that's a lot of power? Yeah, that is one of the highest accolades I've ever been paid. And you know, that wasn't necessarily my goal, but I was like, okay, I can still feel what it felt like to be 14. I can still go back in time in my mind.
And I viscerally experienced the anxiety, the drama, the fear of what lay ahead of me. I'm 43 now, but I still carry that 14 year old inside me, right? And I have done a lot of work, a lot of therapy to take care of that 14 year old and to tell him it's going to be all right.
And the whole point in making Flamer was to tell other 14 year olds who are going through the same thing that I was going through at their age that it's going to be all right, that they deserve to be here, that they deserve to take up some space. While reading Flamer, I had this terrible thought. I was like, oh, that's right, boys have feelings.
Because there's this weird kind of like self-fulfilling prophecy when you have that toxic masculinity and not being able to show your emotions becomes like this badge of honor. People that are outside of that forget that the people who are masking those feelings do have feelings. Yeah, and then it's a vicious cycle, right? Because these people pretending to not have feelings have really intense feelings that they're not letting out. And then when it does come out, it's in really unhealthy ways.
And yeah, it just perpetuates this toxic cycle. Why was it important for you to write from your own perspective as a teenager? I think I felt so hopeless when I was young and I wanted to give some hope to someone who is living in a hopeless situation like I was. When we're facing adversity every day, when we're facing people who are throwing hate at us, it's very hard to think like I will have, I can have a better life.
And yeah, I just, I like to think of my book as a life raft and we just, we need more of them, you know? Yeah, I agree. Thinking back on your teenage self, are there books with adult themes that you remember reading that left an indelible mark on you? Like when I think about what I was reading in high school for class, I mean, I was getting some pretty intense titles. Yeah. And I didn't always fully understand, but they really like got me to think.
I mean, I was, they were making me read like Kormak McCarthy. I read Tony Morrison in high school. We love Tony Morrison, but she's a rough read. Yeah, I mean, I, I remember reading Beloved and like, I mean, I was shook, right? But yeah, I would never go back in time. We'd be like, don't let this child read Beloved. Like I think it was a huge moment of growth for me. I don't know, I'm kind of like proud of my teachers for just allowing us to be in on it.
I feel like when we're growing up, there's this whole like sort of movement to protect a child's innocence, which is like, I understand to a degree, but I mean, now it's like, don't we owe it to teenagers to help them understand the world instead of just leaving them to figure everything out on their own?
I mean, I mean, we see communities where like they have no sex education and then the teen pregnancy rates are higher because they don't understand how it works or they don't have access to protection. Or, you know, there are spikes in STIs because no one taught them what an STI is and how they can get it. So just as an example, it's like, wouldn't it be better to give a child information that could help protect them and help them like set boundaries?
Yeah, it's nice to be a teenager and be trusted with the truth. Yes, I think if you're a teenager and I know when I was a teenager and when I did adult treated me like an adult and I have an aunt who I love and she used to say like, you're growing up now, you're an adult now. So I'm going to tell you this and I would be like, oh my god, what should I say? I was ready. Like, I wanted to be that grown up. I wanted her to see me as like responsible and like on her level.
So I don't know, I think we owe our youth honesty because that's what's going to make them better people. When we come back, I am so scared for my readers. I'm scared for the people I wrote my book for, you know, the ones that live in the communities where these books are being banned are the ones who need it most. That's coming up. Stay with us. This message comes from NPR sponsor Warby Parker.
Their glasses started $95, including anti-reflective scratch-resistant prescription lenses that block 100% of UV rays. Try five pairs of frames at home for free. Go to WarbyParker.com slash covered. This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify, the global commerce platform that helps you sell and show up exactly the way you want to. Customize your online store to your style. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash NPR.
This message comes from NPR sponsor ServiceNow, the AI platform for business transformation. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. Enter ServiceNow. It puts AI to work for people across your business, providing intelligent tools to help remove frustration and supercharge productivity. And all of that is built into a single platform you can use right now. That's why the world works with ServiceNow. Learn more at servicenow.com slash AI for people.
This message comes from NPR sponsor Charles Schwab, independent financial advisors, focus on building a relationship with you that goes beyond your portfolio. That's why Schwab is proud to support them. Visit findyourindependentadvisor.com. Parker has been talking to Mike Carrado, the author of Flamer, a graphic novel that has been swept up in this wave of book bands going on across country.
And Mike has dealt with a lot of pushback from his son parents, a verse to a story about a teenage boy scout coming to terms with his burgeoning sexuality, including a woman in Texas filing a criminal complaint against him. I was included on this McCarthy era like list that a Texas lawmaker introduced. It was a concerted effort against him and other authors like him. It's been really hard.
How does it feel the fact that this character you've created and loved is considered to some inherently dangerous or unacceptable to certain people? First of all, if someone actually took the time to read Flamer, I don't think they would consider it in the main character threatening at all. I mean, here's a kid who is just trying to be a good person and he's trying to reconcile the parts of himself that other people are telling him aren't good.
So when I first started hearing these stories, seeing images of angry parents at schoolboard meaning is holding up my book and calling it pornography, calling it indoctrination, I mean, I felt literally sick. I wrote my book, these other authors wrote their books to help people. These are books that are there to give validation to people's existence. And what these people are saying is that people like Aiden, people like me, shouldn't exist.
I mean, that's basically what comes down to when you're saying we can't share that story with children because it's not appropriate. That's all very coded language to say that's not the type of people that we want in this world. And it kind of, of that action, those words just prove why books like this need to exist. I mean, those words and actions are just rooted in hatred and prejudice.
And there are a lot of buzz phrases flying around like protecting the children and it's like you don't actually care about protecting the children because if you cared about protecting all children, you would care about children of color, you would care about queer youths, you would care about girls, women. And sorry, I'm getting a little... No, no, no, feel you feel you. No, I know, I get really riled up here and then I get a little flustered and then lose my way.
But I think the hardest part for me and I know I've been on record saying this many times, but it bears repeating. I am so scared for my readers. I'm scared for the people I wrote my book for. You know, the ones that live in the communities where these books are being banned are the ones who need it most. I mean, Aiden in the book deals with suicidal ideation. He doesn't get there on his own.
When we are constantly hearing about how people like us should exist, we like really internalize that hatred. And then how do you help someone who starts believing those lies? Like, I'm not supposed to be here. How do you connect with someone to be like, hey, yes, you do deserve to be here. And I understand because I've been where you've been.
So you know, books like mine, they cherry pick, little scenes, little moments in this book, they take it out of context, they share it and you know, call it pornography, call it woke propaganda. And they just sideline the bigger picture of the story of saying like, no, I'm just making this so that someone knows their own worth. You've talked about the way that queer stories are inherently sexualized. Do you feel like that's what happened here? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Flamer is a book about a 14 year old boy, okay? And I think that there's a lot of misinformation about who the audience for this book is. You know, I'm not saying like, hey, here is this book for kindergarteners. This is a book about a teenage kid with teenage experiences. And that's life.
And I know that there are parents that don't want to believe that their children have sexual feelings, but you know, I would ask people like, instead of thinking about your children, think about yourself at 14. That's what I'm working with here, right? I'm thinking about myself at 14 and what that meant to me and like how I struggled with it.
Yeah, I'm just shaking my head right now because I think something else that I want to touch on is that what has happened with my book is kind of my worst fear. I started in children's books in 2012. My first book came out in 2014. I went to school for this. It took me 10 years before I got published. And I had a lot of anxiety about being an out gay man in children's publishing because I grew up with the stigma of gay people being pedophiles. And now there are people calling me that.
And it's really, you know, I'd love to say that I don't let those things get to me, but truly I cannot think of something worse that someone could call me. And I do take it very personally. And I try to remember that, you know, that is set out of ignorance. These are people who don't know me as a person.
So to take my work, to take what I've put my heart and soul put myself into as a gift to people like me to celebrate them, to show them some love and some kindness that maybe they don't receive in their own life. And to have it demeaned in such a disgusting way. I mean, like Aiden, you were vulnerable. And you created this like this vulnerable story. And some of the responses were really hostile. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is fiction, but it's a book about my life.
And you know, and I mean, I had suicidal ideation when I was eight and sage because I saw what it was like to be gay in America. At least, I mean, I didn't get to see the joyful parts of it. Let me clarify. I got to see what was judged. I got to see people being al-cast, I got to see people dying of AIDS and the government not caring. I got to see people being physically hurt. I got to see people being disowned by their families. That's all that the media gave me as a teen.
And I didn't know that I could be happy. And I don't want to see that happen again. I don't want that to happen to a teenager who's only seeing, you know, who's only seeing the world tearing us down. And it does, it feels like that right now. But I also feel like the queer community has so much love in it. And that's why we're still here and that's why I will always be here. Have you gotten any responses from people who have felt like Aiden or parents of Aiden's in the world?
Yes. Yes. It's been really moving. You know, I hear from teenagers that are like, I've never seen myself in a book before. And I hear from adults who say, I have never seen myself like this in a book before. It's wild. Like I got messages not from one, but two other Filipino gay guys, my age, right? We're all 90s kids. They're like, I was in scouting, I was an altars server. One of them says, this was really spooky to read because you were basically writing about my life.
And yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. But also thinking about my 14 year old self, I thought there was no one else like me in the world. I was like, total freak, but there are so many of us living parallel lives and we just didn't have a way to connect with each other. And now, all these years later, we discover like I wasn't alone, right? And I think that, you know, that gives people a lot of hope. It gives me hope, right?
Like when I am now, when I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm going through this thing. I don't know, I'm not the only person who is a book's getting banned, but you know, just getting back to the younger readers. One time I was at a book signing while I did a talk and then I did a book signing afterwards in the Midwest and a teen came up to me and asked me to sign their book and they asked me if I could write something for the dark times. I was like, yeah, I can do that.
And so I was writing in their book and they're like, wow, that's a lot of words. And it's like, that's okay. Sometimes we need a lot of words. You give someone some words when they need it, you know? And they handed me this letter and they said, I'm really shy and there's stuff that I want to tell you, but I don't want to do it here. And it's like, sure, no problem.
And I got back to my hotel room after the event and I read the letter and I feel like I already knew what it was going to say before I opened it. But I totally cried reading it because yeah, I mean, I get it, you know? And it's like, yeah, you were the reason why I wrote this. Like you are going through what I went through. And I feel like I'm both scared for that youth and I have so much hope for them.
And there's someone that I think about when I hear all this book banning BS, like I think about them and I think about other people have written to me. And that is what makes it all worth it. It's like, you know what? If I had to listen to someone call me a pedophile every day for the rest of my life, but the book gave that teenager like the strength to keep going, then that gives me strength to keep going.
So I think it's very much about centering the narrative on the people that we're rooting for, right? And not the naysayers. And it's a very difficult thing to do, but that is, it has become a new practice for me. I have just looking where the love is and trying to focus on that. I'm sorry, you can't see I'm wiping my face. Oh no. Oh. Oh, no, it's okay. As long as the great listeners can hear me crying. Um, Mike Curado. Thank you so much for talking to me. Thank you. Oh my gosh. This was a lot.
This was a good way. Yeah. Yeah. And that's our show. You can follow us on Instagram at NPR code switch. If email is more your thing, ours is code switch at npr.org. And subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also subscribe to the code switch newsletter by going to npr.org slash code switch newsletter. And another way to support our work here is to sign up for code switch plus. It's really small, but it makes a big difference for us.
And you get to listen to every single code switch episode with no ads. Check it out at plus dot npr dot org slash code switch. And thank you to everybody who's already signed up. This episode was produced by Xavier Lopez and Christina Colle. It was edited by Leah Denella and Courtney Stein. Our engineer was Quacy Lee. Our episode art was done by Jackie Lay. And we will be remiss if we did not shout out the rest of the code switch massive.
That's Jess Kang, Daya Mortada, Barely Williams, and Louis Lee Zedago. I'm B.A. Parker. And I'm Gene Demby. Bezier. Hi, Dre. This message comes from in PR sponsor, the Capital One Venture X card. When you book through Capital One travel using the Venture X card, you earn 10 X miles on hotels and rental cars and 5 X miles on flights. And you earn unlimited 2 X miles on all other purchases. Plus receive a $300 annual credit for bookings through Capital One travel.
The Venture X card from Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details. This message is brought to you by NPR sponsor, Lisa, in collaboration with West Elm. Discover the new natural hybrid mattress, expertly crafted from natural latex and certified safe foams designed with your health and the planet in mind. Visit leesay.com to learn more. All that sitting and swiping, your body is adapting to your technology. Learn how and what you can do about it.
I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated. Once I started realizing what a difference these little breaks were making, there's no turning back for me. NPR's Body Electric Challenge. Visit the series wherever you get your podcasts.