Robert Zemeckis | Club Random with Bill Maher

By the way, I love your movie. You know I love that. You know I love that movie. I know because you called me. Bill, you just stated the premise of my movie. Everything, everything changes. Robert? There you are. You know, please call me Bob. How are you? If I have to. You don't have to. You don't want to. You can call me Robert. You ever see that book on the name, Bob, all the bugs in the world? Somebody put a, oh, like, Bob, New Hard, Bob Dylan.

There was this something they found common alley because it's a very common name. Case you never got my book. I did, but you will sign one for me, please. Thank you. Hollywood royalty for a reason. Oh, God, I love that. Thank you. This means a lot. Thank you. It's great. By the way, I'm glad you did this. Thank you. It's fantastic. And I certainly mean that. I appreciate it. Appreciate that. Thank you. Well, it's undeniable.

If you just go down the list of all the big ones, I mean, my friend and I were talking in the day, we're driving back from the airport and songs come on the radio. And we're saying, like, how tough it must be to be a one-hit wonder. Like lots of people, there's lots of one-hit wonders in music. You do it once. And it's like the greatest six months of your life. You got a number one hit. You're on the top of the charts. And it never happens again. That happens a lot of music.

I guess in your business, too, but you don't think, but, you know, to have like the number of big easts that you've had. It's a... Not a lot of people in that company. You know what the closest to this one is back in the day, the Charlie Rose show. Oh, but that's TV. Yes. But there was you... All the cameras were remote control. Is that right? Oh, yeah. You were in that black void. I did it. I remember. And there was nobody there. Those cameras were all operated on servos.

And you couldn't see anybody. And it was just the table. That's how we ran his personal life, too. You couldn't see anybody. Because why he came out in a bathroom. Exactly. It's amazing the way the number of guys in that first Me Too Wave, you know, like around our age, who were just doing things that I just wanted to go, you know, it's not all of us. Oh, like, don't you just hate yourself? That this is how you get laid. I mean, everybody's got a way to get laid, cops pull you over.

I mean, everybody's got a scam. Right, right. And that's how elegant they are. And this was like the least elegant. I emerge from my bedroom in a rope, like the 28 year olds going to go, oh, my dream has come true. I get to see Charlie Rose naked. Thank you, Jesus. Exactly. Exactly. I know. No, I know. And then you must have seen some shit on movie set. Well, I'm always I've never. I mean, I think you do. You actually. No, actually, no, actually. Good nervous now. No, no, no, there was.

There was one. There was one time where I. Nothing could happen, but it was like. It was it was in the. It was a scene in forest gump where Robin is in the dorm room with, with, uh, with Tom, right? I'm sure you remember that. I was in the dorm room. I was in the dorm room. And my, uh, Joanna Johnson, my long time, costume designer. She's very English, very proper.

And she kept coming up to me with showing me what I, if I approved the, which she was going to be wearing as, as her underwear was all this period stuff. And I'm looking at it and I'm going. This looks like, you know, something a grandmother would wear. This doesn't, I don't, you know, and she kept showing me the stuff I said. And I finally got upset. So, I was like, was this a real model who get a model who has the same dimension, same body as Robin.

And put the stuff on her and take a picture so I can see what it's going to look like. So, a day later, I hear, you know, Joanna says, or the 80 comes and says, Joanna wants to see you in your trailer. So I go on my trailer, and there's this model with a robot in my in my trailer. And Joanna is there. And, uh, she says, and she says, well, she'll only underwear. So she opens up her robe. I said, that looks great. And then the model said, you want me to take them off? Really?

Yeah. I'm looking at it. Joanne, I'm saying, no, that's okay. I wasn't even asking about you. I just meant that you're in show business. If you're in show business, I'm in it too. You're going to be around some sleazy people. That's a point. I mean, especially in the music industry. But I always found that the ones that were the most talented were not the sleasiest. I mean, obviously there were. But in my, in my, in my, in my Michael Jackson was very talented. And he was fucking little boys.

That's true. No, it's true. No, it's true. I know what you mean. Like the bigger they are, the nicer they are, that's, you know, often true. It takes all kinds. I mean, I know, I've never thought you could like pigeonhole show business people. It's a spectrum. Are they smart? Some are brilliant. Right. And many are not. Same as humanity. Are they good? Some are awesome. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we'd want it any other way.

We want to recruit from the full panoply of the human race, right? I think you're probably right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Anybody's flawed in a way. I mean, I don't know what your casting process is. But I'm sure you know they once asked John Houston what's his secret to directing. Do you remember that? Yeah. And he said, I drew a motion by directing in the casting process. Which means, you know, yeah, I don't know what that means. I know what it means. I know what it means.

But I know what he. But yeah, but you could look at it. I guess you could think of it in two ways because you know, it's like. You know, it's the old. It's the old adage. What's. You know, what makes a good movie. You know, good writing and good casting. You know that, you know, so we might be. We're looting to that. You know, well, I think he. Look, I mean, I don't know. I'm not a movie maker like you are, but just as a fan, I know. There's so many things that can go wrong in a movie.

I mean, there's so many elements. Right. You can have good writing and good casting. Enic it. Get fucked up by half a dozen other things. Oh, yeah, editing and, you know, timing and lots of stuff. But I think what he meant by that was, you know, if Humphrey Brogart is on my team. And I write his name in the lineup card. We got a good chance to win this game. That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Yeah. He's getting guys up there who, you know, who are going to, you know, who are going to show up. I mean, you use obviously some of the same people, because you, as most directors do, you, you work with somebody. You have a good time. They fulfill your vision. And you're like, you, that's, you just solved my biggest problem in this next project. Can I write this? And it's like a shorthand. I mean, I've made a, I made a bunch of movies with Tom Hanks. Right.

And he says, he says, I can hear in your voice when you say cut that we're doing another take. You know, so it's kind of like that shorthand has gotten, gotten to that. You know, it's exactly what I'm thinking. He knows when you're not quite satisfied. Yeah. Just from the way he hears me say, we're cut. That's what he claims anyway. But that is, but that's the great thing. I mean, I keep work, I've worked for, I've made, I can't, you know, over 20 movies with Alan Sylvester, my composer.

And it's just great having a shorthand where you kind of finish each other's sentences. Of course. And, and when people are delivering and you can have that shorthand, it's great. But I've been very fortunate. I've worked with, I mean, some of the absolute greatest actors that, you know, about generation. I would say the same about you. I mean, the people in any industry, but we know at NARS, they want to, you know, you're not doing them any favors.

They want to work with someone who's going to make them successful too, who's going to provide the material, provide the direction. You know, I'm sure your friends with a lot of these people, but maybe they'll do one movie for you at a friendship, but that's it. You know, like, they want to work on what they want to work on. You know, but, you know, you come to them with good stuff. I mean, you know, especially like Tom Hanks, you, as far as come the first one you did with him.

That was the first one. Okay. But then cast the way how many years later was cast when cast away was like four years later. And then we did the polar express. I never get tired of that plane going down in cast away. I mean, the whole movie is great, but that is. I don't feel like I'd ever seen that quite on camera. I mean, it's so a lot of stuff that's super-actiony and CGI and all that kind of stuff.

It's stuff that would never really happen to me, you know, I mean, I'm not worried about some monster shooting rays out of the end of his fingers at me. Right. But a plane crash. I mean, it's very gripping because you could be exactly in that scenario. Yeah. And I guess that's what it would look like. Yeah. And I think the trick and I think the thing that makes it the most terrifying. And it was. And it was a decision that I made.

You know, early on was you only see any of it from Tom's point of view. Well, you know, we never cut to what the pilots are seeing. We never cut to outside the plane. You know, God's point of view. We never, it's the whole plane crash happens just from his. His. Well until it hits the water, then we see. Well, we saw the plane. All the shit in the water when the plane hits the water. And he's there. No, you see, you know, you see it only from him.

So it's like he, he's, he comes up on that on that raft. And then you see the big tail of the plane coming at him. Right. It's all. And about that at the very end when he starts floating away, then the camera pulls back up, you know, like way up into the sky. As you just see him in that in that black ocean. How do you make these decisions like what to do? You mean like you're a little like people like Kubrick who. You know, made a bunch of great movies and none of them are like the other ones.

You know, I mean, there's no like like Scorsese, you would say, well, it's mostly a certain style. Obviously he's done other movies that aren't mobbo. He's been, he'll always be. First thing in it's a bit you're really, you know, master of mobbo. But you seem to be all I mean, back to the future is not really anything like. Cast away. No, I just want you. I've been very fortunate. I've actually I'm too restless or maybe it's a madness. I don't know what it is, but I just an artist.

I just didn't want to do the same movie again. I wouldn't it would be boring. I feel like that's the key to art is. It's that the person doesn't want to be bored. Exactly. I just have no interest in doing. I just would I mean. A teen time travel movie. I just would have absolutely no interest in doing that. You already did it. I did it. Right. Exactly. Exactly. By the way, it so holds up. And of course, like any movie from the past, there's things in it you absolutely couldn't do today.

Or they would just jump on you. Oh, yeah. I mean, Beth is a rapist. I mean, it's flat out rape, which even if he's the bad guy, they would go nuts. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I know. And it's like, it's just like, yeah, the bad guy in town, he rapes. That's just like thing that he, you know, he rapes. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, well, you get, well, people don't approve, but people don't approve it again. And it doesn't really, it doesn't really, well, but you know what the intention is.

Obviously, yes. No, no, he's in that car. Oh, yeah. And he'll feed her in the air. He's plainly raping. Oh, yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and Tom and Leah are so great doing that scene. And it was, it was, it was, yeah, it gets pretty, it gets pretty scary. By the way, we have a sort of weird, tangential connection, which you'll never guessed it. But in 19, were you making the movie in 85? I know what you're going to say. Gary Goldberg. You're right.

Now, you know how come I know you're going to say that? I was having dinner with Michael, Michael J on Monday night. Really? Yeah. He was, he was in town. And I was having dinner with him. And we were talking about, because I think he's thinking of doing a, a memoir about his life when he was, I mean, literally doing the movie at night in the show during the day and getting two hours of sleep for, for, for, for, for what is my connection to this? Do you think you, I was asking him this.

I was saying, so what, you know, was Gary, like, was he like, like concerned about, if you were getting enough rest or anything, he was, no, no, no, because he was, he was too busy doing another show. He was doing another show with Bill Marr called Sarah. Correct. Gina Davis was Sarah. Gina Davis, right? Yeah, she was pretty free-wittered and Branson Pinchot. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. I was the office prick. And Branson was gay and off he was black and Sarah was the lead.

And that's who we were. And that was, yeah, Gary Goldberg, the producer writer, he had family ties with Michael J. Fox, which was the hugest hit. So we were thrilled to be on a show with TB's biggest producer. It was a pretty good time slot. It was NBC when they were kind of like the king of the hill. So I don't think we followed directly family ties, but we were doing fine. I think we're against dynasty, which was not easy, but, you know, come on.

It's 1985, but I do remember Gary Goldberg talking a lot about how Michael J. Fox was, he had to, or he did loan him to you to do this movie while he was still filming family ties, which is crazy. It's crazy. And it was crazy. And it was, and we couldn't have been there, you know, until he finished like blocking and whatever the sitcom shit that he was doing, right? Well, yeah.

So I think, well, I think the way the way the heavy, the heavy days in the, in the, in the sitcom were always the, the Thursday and then the taping on the front, right? Those were the heavy day. And those were the days where he had to work absolutely the most. There was no wiggle room.

But on Monday, I think I think I think I think they kind of wrote the wrote him a little lighter in the show and he didn't have to sit through too many readthroughs and things like that to get a little bit more sleep. Well, he was so good. I mean, he was such a natural. That and sitcoms, you know, I did three or four of them. It's gentlemen's work, right? You know, it's not heavy lifting.

And if you're smart in a real pro like him, I'm sure he could, you know, Jackie Gleason used to do it with zero rehearsal live. You know, the stand-in with the other cast members. And they hadn't even seen him do any memorized it like sitting in the chair drunk before the show, like memorize the whole script. And then just when that's like baller like I can't even tell exactly exactly. So, but yeah, it really holds up.

It's the Calvin Klein joke is one of the all-time classics that he thinks his name is. And the line that Michael wrote and he's is, is he came up to me and we're in and he goes, you know, he gets up and he's like, you know, where are my pants? And the script said over there. She could yell, Leah says over there and he says, you know what? She should say, I'm my hope chest. I said, that's great. That's going in the movie right now.

You know, I got those great gems from Michael just kept the other thing you taught me so many things about. Just comedy timing. You know, he would come up to me and say, you know what? I should take three steps and say this line, stuff like that. And I go, okay, that makes, oh, that's great. That's better. Let's change the marks. You know, so it was it was it was great having someone who just understood the alcohol. I guess the mechanics of comedy.

So if I need to watch a movie about time travel when you are now 40 years past when the movie was made. So the so the jokes that are funny in 1985. About when they go back to 1955. You know, oh, if you know everything about the future, who's president in 1985? Ronald Reagan. Oh, right. I'll bet Jerry Lewis is vice president, you know, made sense in 1980. Now looking from 2024, it's funny in a different way. It's like a double time travel.

You know, the story of when Reagan watched the movie in the White House. And well, so so we heard this. Bob Gale heard this because his speech writers who put one of our lines in the state of the union address that he that he said that that year. Were big fans of the movie. And they were there on the night that he ran it at the White House. And and the story they told was that when that scene came on. Where, you know, you know, Chris lead says, Ronald Reagan the actor.

Um, Reagan said, stop, stop. We should back it up. Back it up. I'm gonna see it again. Then shut the movie down. Rewound the real. Wow. And he wanted to watch that part over again. Netwild. Because they had a real to real. What was a film? It was film. Right. It was projectors. Yeah. There was no video. Now you had a like, yeah, how to like rewind the movie. You rewind the real. Yeah. I was like, what Canadian comedians, you know, like Michael is coming. Yeah. Dan Acroix. Matthew Perry. Right.

You know, there's something about them that like they get it. They get us. They're part of us, but not completely, you know, mm-hmm. Yeah. And they, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But you're, I think, yeah, there's something about being able to look at it with a little bit of a little bit of distance. So what's the new one about? The new one. Well, the new one is really interesting. The new one is again me being on my. Restlessness. It's called here. And it's.

It's. It's based on a graphic novel by Richard McGuire. And. The camera is only positioned in one view of the universe. And the camera never moves. Ever. And then. But the universe moves around the camera or the view. I don't want to say the view the audience is seeing, which is obviously a camera. According to that. And then it. And it goes. Through many, many. And it's not like a time lapse, any movie or anything like that. But at some point, very early on, a house is built.

And a room is built around the camera. And it's a living room. In. New Jersey. And across the street is a colonial mansion, which used to be the. The mansion that Benjamin Franklin's illegitimate son lived in. This is all in the graphic novel. And it's in the movie. And. Our family. Now inhabits this room. And we watch them. We watched their lives through. Two generations. So we see Tom and Robin from 18 to 80. In the movie. How's that sound? Robin. Robin right. Tom Hanks. Robin right.

And the other. The other reunion is. Eric Roth. Well, the script with me. He will force come. So what do I mean. But you said the you we the camera sees the universe. Why say universe. I mean, not. Well, whatever. I mean, the world. The world part of the world. Is it focused on whatever? What are we saying? We're just seeing this house. No, you're seeing. You're seeing the earth before the house is built. The earth. The world. No, just what you could see.

Just like if you were if you were looking. Okay, so if you were looking out that if you were looking at that wall. And then you your view of that wall. Never changed, but time changed around you. But what is the camera trained on that the people who are watching the movie see. Exactly what's there. Whatever is there. So to give you an example. I'm going to say. The camera's looking at the at the. At the how at the mansion the colonial mansion before the houses built. Right.

And the colonial mansion is always in one place. After it's built. But the trees around it are now disappeared because they were cut down. And then walls are constructed in frame. And then suddenly. A room is constructed. And then a window is there. But you can still see the mansion. Do the actors have a room. Yes. And you see the major. Oh yeah. And so you de-age them. Yes. I hear that technology's gotten better since the Irishman. Oh, this is this is in this movie. It's. What? Perfect.

So you can make them any age you want. Mm-hmm. Is this a union issue? I feel like. Yeah, yeah, no it is. No, no, no, no, no, but it's no, but it's like. Makeup. It's digital. I call digital makeup. Right. Which I would assume would have set the makeup union. Well, I mean, whenever, yeah, whenever, whenever, whenever things change, somebody usually gets hurt. Yeah. And then that person is going to cry in the moon. Sometimes justifiably. Sometimes not. I, my view is that. You can't.

Bitch in moon too much about when things change because they just are going to. So what the fuck is the use of crying, you know, the 20 years ago, Barry Sanders was like the highest paid player in football or close to it. Now, no running back is one is even in the top 100. Right. But why? Because things change. Why did it change and become a passing game? It just did. So why fucking obsessive? That's just the reality. Music became a producers in district. They get all the money.

Songwriters are dying. They don't get paid anymore. You're the direct making a hit record. You don't get paid because the fucking Spotify streaming is basically where serious movies went. People are not going to go to the theater. Look what happened to Megalopolis. I mean, I don't know if it's good or bad. But in the old days, there would be more curiosity just to see it. Yeah. Bill, you just stated the premise of my movie. Everything, everything, everything changes.

I'm going to pretend I meant to do that. But, but no, but it's a great theme. It is. It is. That's what fascinated me about it because it's a meditation on, I hate to use that word because the movie is wildly entertaining. And it, but you know, so I don't want it to sound like it's like, right. But it's about the fact that everything changes. Nothing stays the same. And that's end, end, end. Well, let's hope that some reviewer says wildly entertaining because then you can put that in the add.

And that always gets to me because when I watch anything, I want to be wildly entertained. Well, that's it. So you were talking about back to the future. And I was having this, you know, so back in Santa Barbara over the summer, they have an old beautiful theater called the, called the Granada. And it's having its 100 year anniversary. And they want to remind people that, you know, movies are all back in the, you know, 20s and 30s. They used to run movies here. So they did a movie program.

But they only wanted to use movies from people who. Filmmakers who lived in Santa Barbara. So they ran my movies. And, and people who I knew. I didn't know the movie business who are, you know, in their, in their 30s and 40s. They would come at camp. And they said, oh my god, we took the kids to the Granada. And we watched back to the future. And they said, and you know what? People were laughing. And, and people were cheering. And they would burst into applause at certain moments in the movie.

And I was sitting there thinking, yeah, that's, that's why we use that. That's what movies, that's what we did when we, that's what movies. There's something about a communal experience that makes it better. Or it not always, but it can. It definitely has that, I mean, concerts. I mean, yeah, there are just things that people, there's some sort of like that we get from, oh, I'm among all these other people who feel the same way about this as I do.

Maybe it makes you feel not so alone in the world. Church is the same thing. We all think Jesus Christ is God. We all think that. It's just something comforting about that. I'm not in that group. No, I'm not in that group either. And by the way, I love your movie. I know, you know, I do. I do. You know, I love, you know, I love that. I know because you called me. And I always appreciate it. I'm so glad you reminded me that.

Yes, when religious came out in 2008, you tracked me down and called me and it meant the world to me. I'm director of the statue. Well, I'm so glad. I just love that you made that movie. Yeah. Oh, I loved it too. Yeah. But it's, but it's, you know, it's about so much, but it's so entertaining. You know, that's why Lee and I really love it. And I, you know, half the credit goes to Larry Charles and directed it and did such a great job. Put it together.

And, but I mean, we, it was a labor of love, even though I labor, I mean, drapes and around the Middle East. Yeah, of course. I know. I would do it again. Well, but you had to get all that, you had to get all that great stuff. But here's the thing though. I mean, no art form though was designed. It was always supposed to be this communal thing. I think because the idea of seeing, well, you know what, maybe I'm wrong. No flickers. No, those things, those flickers were individual.

And they started with those machines where you watched something. So yeah, that was you watched it in isolation. You're completely right. Right. So it just everything, everything changes. But that didn't mean it was better. People then liked it better. Of course, obviously, then we could sit down and watch it. And then the silent days wasn't there a guy in the theater playing the piano? Yeah. I mean, that was silent days. That was just soundtrack. And then this thing started to happen.

I guess, which is sound. Well, sound. And then of course, then people were getting, I just remember, I just remember the first time that I was emotionally moved in a movie. And that was the moment when I said, I got to do this. What was that? It was Bonnie and Clyde. Bonnie and Clyde, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's a great scene in there where Gene Hackman was shot in the head. And he's in this field. And he's dying. I remember, yeah. And I remember being a kid.

And I guess I was freshman in high school or so. I don't know what I'm thinking. Well, I have feeling real bad, really bad. I feel so sad for this. And I went, and I just, I remember having this clear thought thinking, this is some strange power. I think this is, I got to, I got to figure out. And that's when I started to learn that, oh, wait, there's a director. And then there's, and this is, and it's not just, you know, because I only went to movies to see special effects.

But Bob, you know that the Clyde Barrow gang were not really good people, don't you? Oh, I, I, of course I do. I'm just fucking. I, of course I know you are. But I mean, that was the experience of the movie. I mean, I'm absolutely know that I fell in love with these people because they were just so. Oh, how could you not? First of all, the fade down away was so caucarific in that movie. Absolutely. I mean, she was super hot when she, uh, when they're in that diner.

And, uh, you know, she's in this, this hot chick in a small town waiting for someone like him to show up. And, uh, she just wants to get out of there so bad. And she's got this curlic hue of her hair by her ear that's come down a little sideburn, a little woman sideburn. I thought it was kind of sexy, but he was changed that. Yeah. And she immediately like, what's down her hair? I'm just, uh, I'm sure people say, well, that's you Bill Maureen. You like to see women dominated? No, it wasn't man.

It was just, it was just hot. It was a great, it was a great moment. And, and sexy is not politically correct. And it never will be. No, they are, they are at loggerheads. Mm-hmm. You know, William Hart throwing that chair through the window and body heat. Mm-hmm. Yeah. By the way, that plot, I just saw this movie. I watched movies that I never heard of very often like, scroll through the list to when I'm in the kitchen, you know, making food.

And things I don't really have to pay attention that closely too, but I like, see everything. This one came on. I think the title I could be wrong was be careful what you wish for. I'd never heard of it. It's with the Jonas. Right. When the Jonas is next, I guess. Right. Who's fine? Yeah. You know, again, proving my point, I've made many times, acting not that difficult. Lots of people could do it. Wrestlers, bodybuilders, dogs do it. Children do it. I did it. It's just not.

I said this to Sidney Pollock once. Yeah, he interviewed him and he was like, you are, you have no idea how right you are. And he proved it because he was a fine actor. I worked with him. Yeah. On what? He does what the he does in in death becomes her. He plays the doctor that examines Merrill and realizes she's a zombie. And he is spectacular in it. Yeah. I mean, you see, yeah, eyes wide shut. Yeah. He just stepped in the Woody Allen movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, look, he just looks like he's doing it effortlessly. Like he, as the director for so long, he knows what the deal is. He's like, you know, done over fucking thing. Just fucking hit your, hit your mark and bark. You know, it's, it's not rocket science here. Yeah. I mean, it is for some roles. Yeah. You know, if you're playing Sophie's choice, yes, it's a level of acting. But most of it is just a version of, yeah, a version of you in a situation.

Right. And knowing, I think the thing that I appreciate the most about the really great actors I've had a chance to work with is they understand the medium. They know how movies are made. Right. And that is critical. Where the camera is. And what, and, and when you talk about an actor like Tom Hanks, and he's so generous as an actor, because he knows this isn't my scene. You know, this is, this is, I'm, I'm here to just say this one line. Right. And that's what I'm supposed to do. Right.

And completely get it. And it's not like sometimes, sometimes you hit a sacrifice fly. Absolutely. And it brings in the right. Yeah. And you did your job. Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure a lot of who you choose to work with, especially as you get older and you know, be a steam to be able to demand it is, you know, just the life is too short list. Life is too short. Well, it's like that.

To work with people who are assholes, who try your patience, who just a lot of lateral motion when we could be moving forward on something because of your issues or whatever. You know, the older you get. Life is too short. Right. Life is too short. I know we all have that, I'm obviously I'm not going to mention any but we all have the life is too short list. And, and it's that way in, it's that way in the whole, in the whole, the whole thing. It's like life is too short to work at this studio.

Life is too short to work. It's like life is too short all the way down the line. You know, it's like you get to the point where you just say, no, it's. And yet in that book, I gave you. Um, in the chapter on show business, there's a good one about how I mean the point of it is.

If people in Hollywood can work together when they absolutely despise each other, which is happening as Zillion movies, why can't government couldn't government be as efficient as the movie Chinatown where Roman Polenski and fate done away hated each other so much that she wants to beat in a bottle and threw it in his face. Yeah, I heard that story, but no, no, no, but you're right. And, and you're right. And I don't know why that is. I mean, that never happened to Ted Cruz.

Well, maybe, maybe the differences is that there's not a finished product. See, one of the things I love about movies is the end. So yeah, I think I mean, I mean, well, good ones do. Yeah, but I mean, my process ends. And we're at some point, but it's going to be a wrap and we're all going to go home. I've said this to many people, perhaps here before, like everyone has a great idea for a movie. And some of them are very few have the ending. The ending is the key.

If you don't stick the landing, don't start down the road. And it looks like so many people, my mother used to say it. Like, she, how is that movie? She's like, hey, it was okay, but he didn't know how to get out of it. Yeah. Well, that's well, well, it's true. Yeah, I've had to get out of it. Well, 100% right. I mean, that's my mantra whenever I'm working with working with writers and kicking around ideas and things. It's like, well, I, I'll say to, I'll say to writers that I'm working with.

I said, I can't write. I can't start writing this until I know what it, what, what the ending is. I don't even know if I don't know where the ending is. And the tone, well, the tone is a critical thing. Yeah, but I mean, but you have to just toss. But you also see people who like never really made a decision about the tone because it's more than one tone. Where it's like, the tone of back to the future is, is one level. It's very different from like I said, cast away or, or even for us, gum.

I mean, it just, there's a different tone. Like, are we taking this super seriously? No, we're not taking it to Lorian. The time travels seriously. It's like, it's one of the things that's saying comedy by the premise by the bit. Absolutely. And it's okay. You know, that's what we're on here for the ride. We're not, we're not going to, anyone who picks it apart, like picks the sides apart. It's like, you're just an asshole. Okay, no one really thinks this could happen.

It's where, it's, we bought the premise. No, you bought your ticket. Go on the ride. Right. You know, the roller coaster. No, it's not real. It was, you die. And, and, and, and I guess that's one of the hard things about doing what I love, you know, the audiences seem to have a hard time with black comedy. And I mean, dark comedy. Oh, no, no, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? You're a canceled. I mean, you're still, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no, you know what?

We don't have to apologize for saying something that other people who are ignorant don't know what that means. You can do with race, black comedy. No, no, no, no, no, great black comedy. It's great. My show is just as warriors out there. Black comedy means like apocalypse now is a black comedy. Doctor Strange, love. Yes. But it's about a subject that is very dark and very serious. And, and what we're still doing comedy about it. Right.

And that's, but it's always been a difficult, tonal thing I found because I, you know, because I've made a few movies that, that, that becomes or by the way, which is in a, and a wonderfully is having a, it's caught up to its time in an interesting way. Um, where, you know, the tone that, that, that comedy tone with a dark theme like that is, it's just hard. It's hard for audiences to, to earn a tap in, you know, connect with American audiences.

It's probably having a, a resurgence because there is a starvation for it now because they don't make those anymore because they don't trust the audience enough. Partly because the audience is, is dumber probably, but there's still a sizable number of people that keep proving it. Look at Oppenheimer. I mean, would you ever think a movie like that would have pulled in that kind of money at the box office? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. No, I didn't. It's very encouraging. It is. It really is.

That it's very encouraging that there, the people are out there. Um, and if you just, you know, service them. But, but, but, well, yeah, there's, well, there's a whole shift going on. The settlement still. What's that? The Fableman's. How did that do? Um, I, I don't think it, I don't think it, I don't think it was successful as every, as, as you would expect. It's like for, it meant like for him, like not as successful is still like, I mean, Lincoln was a, a, really serious.

Yeah, Lincoln was more successful, very successful. Right. Right. You know, it's another one like Oppenheimer, like if you really give it to them, and make it wildly entertaining, they will eat the dog food. I, I, I completely agree. I, I, you know, I think we're in this strange world now of, um, well, we'll see. I mean, I made this movie which flies in the face of, of everything that's going on. I mean, it's completely original, both in its style and its premise.

And it has, it's not a pre-sold title. It's not a sequel. When is it out? November 1st. Well, I, I want to see it, not just because it's your name on it. And, you know, there's a lot of credibility there, but, um, it's, I'm just so curious now the way you describe it. Yeah. It's like, it, it kind of has to be seen. Well, it has to be seen. And it's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be, because I can't, well, it's going to be difficult. It's going to be difficult.

Even after you see the movie, it's going to be difficult to describe, to describe what the actual story is, but, but that can be okay. That can be okay. You know what's interesting about back to the future. This is put back in the day. I remember, um, blockbuster. Of course, of course, you get a bunch of street in West Hollywood. Here's the, they never knew what shelf to put back to the future on. Really? Yeah. They didn't know if it was science fiction shelf. Should be a comedy shelf. Right.

Is it an adventure shelf? Right. They didn't know where they didn't know where to put back to the future. It's a comedy. It is. It's a comedy, but it's, you know, it uses as, it's fodder, futuristic stuff. Right. But again, it's not really in that category. Again, because we don't really take seriously, you know, the science in it, whereas in contact, that is taken seriously. That's the whole point of it is that it's serious.

It's not that hard to, it's not hard to stock the shelves at blockbuster. Well, and I got my greatest compliment from Carl Sagan. When I was working on, and as he said, back to the future is the best time travel. Best time travel, I guess he said scientific theory that I've ever seen in a movie. And I, you know, I didn't tell him why I took it from HGW. I was, yeah, right.

But that's where I guess, if I was putting me over a little film festival and back to the future was one night, I would feel like a great couple of companion movies would be Groundhog Day, which is also great and also Fox with time. Right. And I think it's a very pleasant film. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Toby McGuire and Reese Witherspoon and, um, yeah. But it would be a good, yeah. Well, that would be a good, that'd be a good like little movie retrospective thing you do.

I was just on, uh, I was very proud to be on TCM. You know, the, yeah, I know, but yeah, was that it? TCM? I think so. I don't know, Jason. Oh, wait. The movie channel. The movie channel. Yeah, it's part of the time Warner. And, uh, you know, they do these little interviews before the show. Marine Dow just did three days of the condor. I watched that. That's a great movie. That's a great movie. And she did a great interview about it.

And I did Reds, uh, with Ben Mankowicz, who sat here and that's one of my old time. I really liked that movie. Yeah, that's good. Oh, I was able to recite word for word Jack Nicholson, the scene. And I thought they were to use it and they didn't. Where he's, where he's, uh, he goes to Diane Keaton, you know, and she was this, you know, feminist from 1920. And he's like, Jack leaves you alone a lot. Does any of us hurt? Remember that? Yeah. He's got his things and I've got mine.

Right. And he goes, one RFA. What are what? He's things, if yours, one RFA. Well, he has my work and I'm in my work and I do my thing. And he's like, are you making this up as you come along? And I did the whole thing, but that I did. Yeah, that's so. But it was still really good. And, uh, it is a great movie. Who knows your, like, when you want advice from your peers, do you like show them stuff? I know some directors do that. They will show it.

And I think it's a rich and cabinet that you, well, say, am I on the right track here or don't you care? Yeah. Well, I have my, you know, I have Bob Gale, who wrote back to the future with me and he's my, he's my long and he'll tell me, I mean, he doesn't, you know, he doesn't blow on his smoke. I mean, I'll say, I just, yeah, you're in trouble with this movie. Um, yeah. So yeah.

I mean, I mean, it's a, but, um, yeah, in, in, and then Alan, my, um, my composer, he's generally, generally when, you know, when we do a rough cut, well, I do a rough cut, my editor, um, and it's not really a rough cut, because I don't believe in rough cuts, uh, where I make the movie five hours long, or so I never do anything like that. Good. Um, I always, I always kind of, I can't stay on watching it. So I always, you know, cut it down to where I was. I want to, I do the best that I can.

And that's what I call my rough cut, my very first cut. And I always bring Alan in. And, uh, I can just, I can just tell from his vibe, what scenes are working, what scenes aren't. And it's just like just a, you know, him and my editor, they're the ones that I'll feel first. But no, they're like directors. I know you're close with Spielberg, aren't you? I know I haven't, I haven't brought Steven in. I haven't brought Steven in in a rough cut, in the rough cut thing.

Um, not for any reason other than it's, it, it's, it's, it's never been something where I think I've ever said, I really need somebody to tell me what to do here. Like if I was in any, in any trouble, it's kind of like, it's sort of like when the movie is finished, or in the rough, in the finished stage, you'll be like, okay, is this working, you know, and if there's anything you can suggest to do, that I can help, you know, that can help it. Oh. I just remember what I was talking about.

Like, the Jonas Brothers movie. I mean, the Jonas Brothers movie. It's, if it's not a direct remake, I guess it's just a rip off like they do it. Uh, it, double indemnity. Mm-hmm. You remember from... Yeah, I remember Donald and Donald. What movie is the Jonas Brothers movie? Which one? I'm telling you. Oh, okay. It's also body heat. Okay. And it's, now they've redone it again. Either they, real, I guess they just take the plot and it's fine. Right. And the plot is great.

When Fred Montgomery did it with... Mm-hmm. Who was in there? Who was that? With Barbara Stanwick or... Yeah. But it's a, it's a hot chick who's unhappily married. He was lead to some older guy who's mean to her and she wants to fucking kill him. Right. And she picks... That's an instrument of her vengeance, some young guy. Right. And because she's hot, she gets him to either kill the husband because she loves him so much and they're going to go away together.

And then after he does the deed, she's like, see, yeah, wouldn't want to be a... And she acts like frames him, you know. Because that's what you want. For crying. Right. Yeah. So I think that's so interesting that they've done that now through all these different generations. I mean, that was exactly what body heat was. That was double indemnity. Right. And somebody from the new generation saw those movies and went... And they're different. Oh, okay. We can do that. We can do that. Right.

And why not? Because there's only so many stories. Yeah. I mean, you're... Yeah. Somebody said that. I don't remember who said that. There's so many said there's only like seven stories or something. I remember hearing that back in the day. I forget who said that. But yeah. And then Bob Gailin, I always thought that every story, has always been in an episode of Leave It To Beaver. Really? Yeah. I mean, really. Like what?

Well, like, you know, just, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever, beavers, character arc has to be. The lesson that he has to learn. The moral of the story. It's all there. You'll find an episode where it's there. Where it's something where where his father has to do something. Or or Gus the fireman has to give him words of wisdom. And you'll find these little jungs in there that are always sort of like premises that you'll find in most movie stories.

I think that's actually more apropos for Andy Griffiths show. And that too, probably, yeah. That was more... I mean, maybe I don't remember Beaver too well. But I do remember Andy Griffiths when I was home sick as a kid. And the reruns would be on it. There was always like a good lesson there. Like one time Opie killed a bird with a slingshot. And the baby birds were crying and crying. And Opie said, can you do something about that?

And Andy was like, no, I'm going to let you listen to them cry for their mother. So you know what you did. We could use a little more of that today. Exactly. And there was one episode where in the beaver, where the beaver got swindled by sending in a coupon from a box of cereal or something and had to learn the lesson of, you know, of understanding false advertising. I mean, all this great stuff. It closed my mind the difference in life, just life in America. I don't know about other countries.

I only lived in this one. I was from when I was alive, which is, I was not really aware of life. But mid-50s, I was born in 1956. You were born in the 50s. I mean, that's where you go back to and back to the future in 1950. 55. Okay. So that world. Now, from 1985 when you go back 30 years, it was recognizable but weird. But from 2024, the world, that is the world is because of the war, which, it is the world. It's like a war ever. But the world is like a war ever.

Or the world is like a war ever. That's like the Civil War era to them. Right. Or if they even knew what that is, or the Revolution era, or were cavemen time, it's just like, it is alien. Yeah. And yet, we span the whole time. Right. I always have, I have a theory about why World War II movies have such longevity. war and we knew who the good guys were in the back as were and there was this incredible conflict going on. But the world was familiar.

In other words, it wasn't like the Civil War or the Revolutionary War. The world was familiar. You had telephones, you had cars, you had newspapers, you had movies, radios. So there was enough that was still going on where the modern audience can relate to the life that the people were in and they could then say, oh, yeah, they're in this tremendous conflict. I think that that's why there's so many of them getting made and why it's so powerful. That's my own theory.

It's also because Nazi uniforms were sharp. Well, but the whole Nazi thing was so diabolical. It was so fantastic. Of course, dramatic. Of course, that's true too, but the uniforms. Oh, they were. It's just awesome. Yeah. I mean, they cut. I mean, am I wrong? No. Can we have new ones in life? I mean, they were diabolic and evil. But yeah, the wardrobe was fantastic, especially like the gen genitals.

I mean, those, those full things left their coats that the lapels and then the, the generals had the red stripe on the leg. I mean, it was all just very well thought out. Hugo Boss, I believe. Well, I don't, yeah, there's a, yeah, I think I've heard that, but I don't know if it was him or his company or what, what the real, well, there was, I don't know the real truth about that is. So I've heard that though.

Well, a number of companies that we still have today started out supplying the Mitsubishi. I believe in Japan made a few planes that flew into the decks of aircraft carriers. Certainly the Volkswagen. Yep. And bear bear chemical. What bear chemical? What's that? Well, the bear, well, the bear chemical, the bear chemical, bear bear. What did I say? They're, they're chemical. They built, they're aspirin.

Yes. They built the, right, the Bergen-Belsen, you know, they probably also, I'm just guessing here. So don't sue me, Nazis. I'm just guessing, but they may have made the speed that they gave to the German troops. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The, the, the, there's a book about that. Oh, yeah. That would be a great movie. That's the fact that I need to give you any ideas, but there's a book. You could take the book and make the book into a movie.

And it's about how the bear mark were, the soldiers were given speed, speed to go into battle. And like, how did they get to Paris in three days? That's how. Exactly. It was like, it was like, it was like, it was like, it would have been a mevelantic ocean if they didn't stop them. They just jacked them up. And that's, you could do an interesting thing through history because it's, there are, we gave our officers like before there was a push coffee. Mm-hmm.

I don't think we gave them speed, but, you know, the Nazis were efficient like that. There are certainly tribes and, and more primitive peoples who would chew on certain plans that would give them cocaine, you know, the coke a plant or in Africa, something called got, it's K-H-A-T. I don't know. It's like they're cocaine that you just chew on it.

I don't, I don't want to get in any trouble, but I think maybe, I think maybe we gave our guys certainly, maybe are some of our bomber, bomber, maybe, you know, some amphetamines. Yeah. You and those bombing guys. Yeah, maybe. Right. There was an amphetamines back then. Right. I mean, certainly the Beatles took them in Hamburg. Right. Well, I alluded to that in a scene I did an Allied where he said, you know, you know, you was saying take this before the mission that after the mission.

So I don't know, I'm sure. Did you watch that series on, I think it was on Apple? I think it was, it was Hank's. Yeah. The one about the, the masters of the sky. The masters of the sky. Oh, I thought was, you know what, I loved about that. So great. I loved there was so many little moments. So I loved all the little minutia they put in there. Like the little things like. Oh, just when they're coming back from the mission, they're standing there with a tray of whiskey for everybody.

I just thought that was like great. I mean, it also, I mean, they did band of brothers also. Yeah. Same tone. I mean, it's just like nobody does World War II like Spielberg. No, you know, and yeah, and that's one of his greatest movies is. Well, in private Ryan. My favorite movie of all time. I mean, that's partly because it's personal because I mean, the guy who plays Ryan, the movie opened with him as an older man, was exactly my father who was in World War II, practically in that campaign.

So when I saw the theater, I mean, to say I was like a puddle was sure, you know, sure it was only about four years after my father died. And it was like, you know, I've never had that experience in a movie theater. Or, or, but you know, he looked, he Spielberg put him in like the exact sort of shirt. My father would have worn in 1990, whatever, when that movie was, you know, it goes back in time and then we see him as a kid.

But you know, that generation just is, I'm sure the kids are tired of hearing that they're the greatest generation. But they kind of were. Yeah. And fighting what Hitler and Tojo represented and how close they were to achieving it was not something people today can relate to. We're just not in that kind of dire situation where yeah, they could have won. For a while they looked like they were winning. Yeah. I mean, we were on the ropes. There were some close calls.

We read that, read the history of that thing. There were some. Well, if Hitler hadn't been nuts, they would have done it because like there's no people in the world as efficient as the Germans. And when you put efficiency in league with evil, it's not a good combination. They were very efficient at everything they did. But he, but the guy at the top, this is their Achilles, the guy at the top was insane. So he thought he was invincible.

If he had just not turned against Russia, I mean, they took Europe and North Africa all in a year. And if he had invaded England instead of, instead of go to Moscow, it would have been instead of trying to do both at the same time, which was never going to work. Right. Yeah. We dodged the bullet with that one. Yeah. Yeah, you know, but we were not really ready to fight a war. I mean, for four years, this country made no cars. I know.

They just shut down the car factories and said, no, you're making planes and tanks now. And nobody said, boo. Yeah. That is just a different fucking universe. Yeah. Everybody did, everybody did do their bet. Everybody just everybody just said, okay, we got to do this. Yeah, it really. I mean, that's the spirit that hangs and Spielberg are always after in those World War II things. And then they do capture. Yeah. That great scene in private, where I think goes, what's the pool on me now?

What's the pool on me now? Yeah. I'm a school teacher. I mean, all these guys just dropped their, you know. And the fact that he saved it to that moment, when he needed something to diffuse. I also loved in that movie. I mean, there was many firsts that they did, like the first beat scene, showing the true carnage of war looks like that had not happened before. Oh, that was, or just, you know, just thought, you know, the camera going up and down out of the water.

Also, until then, like everything I'd ever seen about World War II, I was a huge combat fan. Oh, God, I've seen every episode. Me too. Love them all. Right. But all the movies, all the TV shows kind of presented it like, yeah, it was hell, but the thing you can count on is that when the superior officer says something, the other guys just do it. And private oriented, it's not quite like that. It's not like that in the field. It's a lot of Captain, we shouldn't do this.

It's like, that's not how combat did it. Whatever Sergeant Saunders said, they just did. And of course, in the under the heat of battle, and, you know, and when they left the German guy go, they didn't agree with, and then he comes back to kill the, I mean, it's just, it's the great, I always say, Chevy Private Ryan is simply the greatest combat episode ever. It is. It's a combat episode. It's just a really, and that was what it was. It was every, every great moment in combat was in that movie.

It's just fantastic. Yeah, it's really, really good. It's funny when, when the Cold War ended, you know, we had World War II as the great enemies. That was all the great World War II movies. And then we had the Russians. And then like in the 90s, people were just lost for an enemy, you know, like James Bond was fighting drug dealers. It's just, just, come on, you didn't have any, you didn't have anybody. James Bond doesn't fight drug dealers. James Bond isn't the deal.

Once you get him a fucking jacket with the letters on it, he's the fights crime in a texedo and fucks three hot chicks every movie. That's who, by the way, in the last one, he dies, right? Talk about a generational change. James Bond dies. Mm-hmm. What? James Bond wins. Yeah. In back to the future, we got a lot of pushback when we made the villains, the Libyan terrorists. Oh, right. You know, because- In a van. In a van, you know, with rocket launcher. Yes. The grenade launcher.

The grenade launcher. Oh. But we, you know, and we would get these notes from the studio and say, we can't, can it be the mob? Yeah. I said, why would the mob want plutonium, you know, makes sense? It makes no sense. It's got to be a terrorist organization who wants to- wants to build a bomb. You know, so. Yeah. There you go. And of course, that's almost 20 years before 9-11. So, terror is- Oh, it's longer than that. It was way longer than that. It was- No. It was 85 to 2001.

That's about 20 years. But 16. Oh, yeah. 16 years, you're right. So. But, I mean, terrorism certainly was- something people were aware, but it just moved to that completely different level. It was like something you put in a movie. Exactly. Exactly. We're not really afraid of Libyans with rocket launchers. So we get what is in the movie. And, I mean, at a certain point, they did start to bitch and moan. When I say they, I mean the usual suspects who were looking for something to bitch about.

Whenever the terrorist was of any sort of Islam or Arab, it's like, okay, but like, you know, then who did do 9-11? You know, we're not saying all Arabs or Muslims or terrorists. We're saying when that kind of shit happens, it has often been Iranians or Saudi-Irabians. That's- there is just a battle going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, don't get me started on the kids today in their projects. Oh, no. Well, listen, I agree with you. Yeah, I say anyone says, what do you think about any subject, Bob?

I say, well, you know, do you just watch Bill Mar? No. Thank you. That is the right thing to say. I agree with them about Arab. I agree with them on all subjects. You know, but you're 100% right about that. Exactly. What is your ethnicity? What is your background? Okay. I'm not some sort of a Jew. No, this is- no, no, no, I'm- I'm- my name is Lithuanian. Okay. Okay. No, my father's- my father's first generation, Lithuanian. My mother was born in Italy. Oh, wow.

And the only time you're going to get an Italian Lithuanian combo is going to be in Chicago. Right. Sure. I grew up in the far-sized South-Sider Chicago. Oh, it's great. You don't have the exit. I don't- yeah, I don't think I have too much of one. You don't, because I always don't like it. Me neither. You mean I don't like that's a card. You mean I didn't say, uh, he's up on the roof? Roof or something? No, he's up on the roof.

No, it's more in dub-airs, you know, that kind of- Oh, dub-airs are- I mean, they're just a certain- I'm sorry for dog of people. Oh, it's true. There was a certain accent that I just find grating. It's, you know, but I find the- Is that a motorcycle? I can't understand a guy-richy movie without subtitles. I'm like, speak English, you fox. Yeah. I speak American, you know, right? You say, I don't know what you're talking about.

Exactly. So yeah, I grew up in- And, you know, and, you know, I had the- That's why I loved- Religious so much, because I got to be, you know, go through the cat school thing. Oh, you- I was raised Catholic also. Oh, yeah. And what was your experience? Love did I bet. Oh. It's a little joy. I always think about, you know, I- I think that the- when I think about, why do I have an image of death in every single movie I make?

It's because- I said, that's what eight years of Catholic school do to you, you know. Come for the fear. Come for the fear. Stay for the shitting in your pants. Exactly. I mean, exactly. No, it was- It was- Yeah, it was scarring. Scarring is the exact word. Yeah. Not that I've been scarred for life, but I bet you've been changed for life. Oh, yeah. I mean, not when- when we're talking about something it's such a formative age. An age where you are defenseless, because you don't know anything.

So you're just at the mercy of any sort of authority figure who tells you anything. So if they are scaring the shit out of you and filling your head with bullshits, right? Ideas. Um, that's- that can't help but be scarring. I mean, sometimes people have accused me because I made religious and made a career of making fun and religion all the time. You know, are you bitter? I'm like, yeah. Well, I'm very bitter. So what? Yeah. Aren't you bitter about certain things?

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm- If someone raped your mind when you were a child, wouldn't you be bitter about it? I was mind- Well, I think it was the- It was the fear in the shame, the indoctrination of the fear in the shame, which is- Yeah. Which I think is the- I don't know, I guess it's the- We- Were you still a- a Catholic in your mind when you started masturbating?

Uh, oh god no, no, no. I- well, I don't think I- I'm not sure when I was ever- I never would- I don't think I was ever really- No, I didn't have any- I didn't have any hangups like that. Thank god. But it was just the- The- you know, that under- That under- Like low-grade headache thing of- Um, you're unworthy because you exist. You know, the shame, the shame that- You know, there's nothing- There's nothing- There's nothing worse that you can do to someone than- Shame them, especially a kid.

And that's the- Number one controlling thing of that cult, in my opinion, is you- You're- You're a sinner because you exist. And you felt ashamed because of specific sins you thought you were committing That you were then were announcing in confession. Did you go- No, it's a feeling of- It's just a feeling of- Of- Um, not being- Not being- Just thinking that you're always- You're not measuring up. You're always falling short. You know, you're- You're always- You're- You're always not- Yeah.

Pleasing God. Pleasing God or- Or- Yeah, you're just- You're- You're not- Yeah, it's- You're not measuring up. You're not getting- You're not getting across the finish line. It's so psychotic, religion, to like purposely create this being who you are always going to disappoint. Aren't you disappointing enough people in your real life? I mean, you've got your wife. You've got your family. Yeah. You've got your kids. I mean, you're disappointing all of them all the time.

Is there a need to create this one more person who you're constantly- Oh, I'm so sorry, God. I fucked up again. Oh, yeah. Please forgive me. You're the greatest. You're- You're all merciful. Thank God because I'm such a shithead. And it's like it's all in your head. Absolutely. And it's just- Absolutely. And it's just- Absolutely. It's just- And it's just- And it's just- You know, it's just completely- Completely diabolical.

And all the rituals and the- And I actually liked- I think I really- I- I was really- They- I really was, you know, like the drama- Or the violence and the- You know, the scourging of the pillar. And, you know, the- And the- You know, nailing- nailing to the cross and all that stuff. I was kind of digging that. But, you know, it's just really endless, endless, endless, you know, blood and death, blood and death. You know, that- Well, it team up with Mel Gibson and make a Christy movie.

I mean, you know- Yeah. I mean, there you go. I mean, that's- I mean, that was- That- Yeah, you know- Can't deny him as a filmmaker. No, he was great- I gave- Right. I presented him as Academy Award. Good for you. No, I was there on the day when he won- Was this after- No, no, this is for- This was after I won. Back in those days- Oh, Braveheart. Braveheart, yeah. Back in those days- Oh, he wasn't controversial, right? No, that- And, you know, but- No, so yeah. I think he's awesome.

I mean- Braveheart, he's got this stuff in it. And- Like, I just have little patience with the perfect people in the world who- Like, as he said some- Really fucked up things- He has, but, you know- And- Is drinking an excuse? No, because drinking actually makes you more honest. So you can't use that as an excuse. Like, oh, I was drunk. I didn't know what I was saying. Yeah, exactly. You said what you- But, you know- I would love to just talk to him. Because I just don't think he's a bad guy.

I don't- I don't own personally, but yeah. Yeah. And I think he could be- I think he understands where he went off. And also he's got that- That super- Dupor- Literally more Catholic than the Pope's father. And we are all sort of like at the mercy of who brung us into the world. That's the theme of the God's father. Right. Right. I think I was- I really didn't want to be in the mafia, but when my father needed me- I had- I had to- I had to- Yeah, I had to. I had to.

I had to fill out my energy and then I looked into that- I have to spent time in litter- of the bars with them. But, you know what. Gasps in me. The time I went back to school in vanilla. Then the night it came, we company- So, of course I see some cases, but in your wake- In horror ice- And, you know, But actually, you know- I remember making my first communion, that's the one you do at seven. And there's another one you do at 13. That's confirmation. I never quite got to that one.

But the first communion, which was a lot of days after school practicing for whatever practicing, we stood there for a minute while the priest like gave you, I don't know, confession. But that's when you started confession. And I had such anxiety because I was like, I'm seven. What fucking sin could I have committed? Yeah, I killed a hooker and Vegas. Right, right. You're holding this. Well, I was really, really, just forgive me. So I would like you to make it up.

I remember, I remember, you know, the difference between the mortal sin and the venial. Yes, of course. Okay, the mortal sin and the venial sin. And of course, the venial sin, if you died with a venial sin on your soul, you would go to purkatory, you have to work it off. Right. Mortal sin straight to hell. Straight to hell. Straight to hell. And I remember this. Being in the first grade, second grade, talking about stealing, stealing money.

And how much, you know, he says, how much money, what's a venial sin and what's a morsel? And she broke it down. There anything under a dollar or a venial sin. And that he went. Well, there's a mortal sin. Adjusted for inflation. Of course. Well, it was like folding money straight to hell. Loose change. You only went to purkatory. Did you, you used to put money in the basket when they came around with? We had a thing, oh, yeah, well, you did on sun, on, on sun.

I'd go to, I'd go to mass every single morning in the craze every morning. Every morning. You had a worst in life. For some reason in my, in my Irish Catholic, Catholicly. But we used to do a thing where you had to buy pagan babies. What? Yeah, you, yeah. So in other words, you would buy a pagan baby. Buy. Yeah. Yes. To, to, to, to you, the money was used to save them. And, and the missionaries would use the money to go when you would go buy a pagan baby like in Africa or something.

And they would, and, and the, and the point was instead of buying your candy bar after lunch, you're supposed to like put the money in this thing to, to, uh, talk about colonizers, huh? And, and I like, I'll never get that, you know, paying to buy some pagan babies. Wow. So you could, we could convert them, you know, I, I don't know what they, you know, but you know what? I, I wasn't that long ago. That's what I keep thinking.

I keep saying is what's, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it.

It's what, and what missع, you know, when we looked down and we bam стало on the Bible, about 25 and you were saying to me that, uh, the tv alone or maybe 13 or everything is what's so amazing is like, um, I think it was Bill Gates who once said like, if you look back over two years and your life, it's like, Jesus, nothing ever changes, But when you look back over ten, it's like, It's a whole different world.

think he's a, you know, some sort of sailor because that's who, well, for also wear that vest that we call it. Well, in the script, it says, you know, he's wearing a light preserver. Right. That's what it looked like to them. Right. But it, but here now in 2024, it also looks weird. But it was so funny because in that space of time in 1985, it was what people wore. It was not what they wear now or then.

But here's a question I have for you because I think about this a lot. I'm thinking that there's been a, there's, I think one of the things that is stagnated is the culture. Something, I don't know if it's because of the internet or social media or the, you know, technology just being the most dominant thing. But cars look the same. I mean, you know, I mean, pretty much, yeah. Music is the same. If, if somebody, yeah, it came back. If somebody walked in, if a kid walked in here from 1994,

which is 20, 20 years ago, we wouldn't look twice at him. If he came through a time warp. Yeah, it's 30 years. 30 years. 30 years. Excuse my math. Yeah. But he wouldn't, he wouldn't look twice at him. And why is that I wonder? I don't know. It's like, but because, well, I mean, I mean, there were things that were doing in 1994. Some of them they brought back like those really ugly mom jeans. Everything bad comes back. Yeah, maybe there's only so many things. There was so many ways you can

wear clothes, right? But, you know, I mean, in 1994, yeah, there was a grunge look. Then I don't think we're doing massively now. If you were, you know, right. But if you walk, but if somebody walked in, you know, in here from, well, you're definitely right that black more jungle. If somebody walked in from the black, you know, you go, I know where you're from. Right. Very different. You are from the past. Right. No, it's true. And music, I mean,

rap certainly was a completely different music form that is obviously preeminent now. But like, but that was 25, 30 years ago. 50 years ago. Rap. 50. 50. Yeah. Rap celebrated 50th anniversary. Yeah. Yeah. In 1979, I like was the first rap hit. Cypress Hill, I think, or Sugar Hill gang. I think. So, I mean, yeah, it's bitter. It definitely was around in the 80s. It was, it could grow and got better. Just like, I always say 80s rap is very much like 50s rock and roll. I know like

either like it needed a decade to grow up. Right. But the music I listened to as a kid in the late 60s, if you go back 25 years was so different from what my father was listening to in the 40s, which is not the case with 1969 plus 25 years or 50 years, except for rap, which is big. Right. But like all other kinds of pop music and there are songs that are put out now that could have been hits in 1969 or 79 or 89. Whereas the sound my father listened to, the big band sound,

that was completely different. Completely different. And I didn't have anything to do with that. I mean, when I was a kid, I didn't listen to that. I learned, I learned to appreciate that when I got older. And my father, you know, and my, my, they didn't, they hated it. I still don't appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, it's just not my kind of, I mean, Benny Goodman, I'm sure was great and blood

and blood and blood. But I would never listen to it. I know what it sounds like. Maybe, I mean, Beth Midler did, Boogie Wilghey, Bugleboy, a company, which was a world where it was going. And she updated it great. And it made it like, made like a pop rock sound. But basically, it's just, it, it, it, first of all, it's very clarinet driven. Okay. Well, that's not, to me as good as electric guitars. That's just me. Yeah. But, you know, that's what I grew up with.

I mean, you're up. We're all products of what they put in our heads when we're helpless. But my, my kids, my younger kids who are in their 20, early 20s now, they listen to my stuff. Being what you're, well, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they love the rock. And I don't, it's not because of anything we're in. I'll be, I'll be in the car with them. That's because it's good. Exactly. And I'll say, why are you listening to that? Why are you listening to that

lead Zeppelin? Like, where did that? How did, how did you find that? And they go, well, I just, yeah, because they have not improved upon it. Exactly. I mean, they've done other great stuff. I mean, it's great artists now. But, um, but they haven't quite improved on that. And, and that particular sound. And yeah, but I mean, there are songs that come out now that I think, oh, that could be a hit in any decade. Those are my kind of songs. And, uh, I'm certainly not a

music snob. I'm the, I'm the opposite. Like, I just want to be entertained. I have no music ability. So I have no dog in this fight. Exactly. And to entertain me, I don't care about important music. Yep. No, no, great way to have a shitty record collection. Let me get the most important songs. Right. No, no, no. Yeah. I'm just, uh, and when, and, you know, and then when the, and then, you know, when the Beatles arrived, it was like, I hold you in 64. Well, it's like, I have to,

I was, um, 64. I was, uh, well, 13, something like that. I think, yeah. You're a, you're born. Like 51. So what was I? So you were 13. 13. Yeah. And it was like life changing. Life changing. 13 is like the exact age you'd want to be when the Beatles arrived. I mean, I was eight. So,

I was not really into music yet. And I just knew there was a hubbub going on. No, I, when, when I, when the Beatles showed up, it was like, you know, and then, you know, when the Beatles showed up, it was like, you know, okay, wait a minute, you know, I kind of like, you know, maybe that feeling that, or did, for me anyway, that, you know, maybe I could do something. No, and I'm sure of the kids, if anyone listening to this, I'm like, okay, boom, or the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like what we said about some shit, our parents were talking about, like certain things you had to be there. Yeah. And if you weren't, it just sounds like two old farts who were like, I'm getting old, Gaga about something that probably wasn't that great. But it was, but it wasn't, you know, completely unique in history either. I mean, there've been other pop phenomena. I mean, Taylor Swift, obviously now, is on a level that we rarely see in show business. I had Nikki Glaser here.

I listened to that. Oh, thank you. I'm now listening to it. And then I'm going to take her advice and listen to her, that Taylor Swift album that she recommended. Well, she recommended the movie because I'm going to see that the one on Disney Plus. Okay. I'm halfway, I'm halfway through it. And and I must report. Yes. My opinion is not changed. I gave it a shot, though. I mean, I don't, and I, as I always say, when Taylor Swift comes up, I, I, the greatest admiration

simply for success. I also have a great admiration for the way she conducts herself. You know, she does, she never misses a show. She's not late. She, you know, she's a class act, right. But I don't get the music. I really don't, I mean, Nikki was here and saying that. I said, I said, what is the key? And she's like, well, the music is just the amazing musicianship and lyrics. And I'm like, okay, great. I'm going to, I'm going to give this a shot. Now, maybe the second

after the show will blow me away. I mean, it's three hours long. I don't watch anything, hardly anything in full increments. I watch things like I read a book. I don't read the whole book at once. And especially something like this. But halfway through, I, you know, but again, I mean, I'm looking in the audience. And it's, you know, 20 year old women. I'm almost a 70 year old man. I mean, that is just apparently a bridge too far for this particular phenomenon. Other things

we do share. But, yeah, I just, you know, and they are certainly into it. And it also says, maybe this is a great indication of the span of time and how much things change. I mean, Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity. That's his great book about when we will meld almost fully with machines. We're certainly halfway there. I mean, there are people who have artificial lots of stuff. And, right, you know, Elon Musk is working on people who can move things with their

mind when they don't have the use of their arms and stuff like that. But to see everyone in the audience not watching the concert, but watching through the phone, they're watching their phone, not the thing that they are purposely putting a filter between something that they know must be filmed. And they could see somewhere other than their own phone. That to me is a difference of kind, not just a difference of degree, a difference of kind that my generation would never want to do

to purposely put this filter and they're all doing it throughout the show. You see, when they cut to the audience, it's all far. But are they trying, are they doing that so they can like zoom in or they recording it so they can keep it? I think both, but I think a lot of it is recording it. Yeah. Which makes no sense. First of all, you have a mind. You can remember it. And sometimes that's better. And she's recording it. You can always see it. It's like you have to see people at the

where the Mona Lisa is. I mean, they're all taking pictures of the Mona Lisa. It's in the gift shop. You could get a beautiful, a bad error. Yeah. Can I get on your wall? Exactly. No, I know. No, it's, but it's odd. But it's about, but isn't it about that thing that everyone just has in their hand now that they can just that? Isn't that just like this thing where everything we have to we have to take pictures of everything I eat.

I mean, people taking, you know, pictures of their food. I mean, oh, we'll look at this presentation. I got to. Yeah. They actually stopped doing that more than they used to. But the point of like Nikki was saying it when she was here, like, she sometimes feels if some event in her life has passed without her recording it, that she missed an opportunity. Mm-hmm. Which is a mindset I can't even get into. I mean, I understand it.

Mm-hmm. And I think the people who are even younger than her because she's, you know, late 30s, the people, the kids who are like, you know, 18 or 15, they don't even have this quandary. They know, you always recorded it. I remember, I think Bill Gates did an experiment once where he had to somebody walk around with a, it wasn't a, I'll use an iPhone because, but it wasn't invented yet. But like a device that every minute took a picture. So we're, it was so wherever this guy

went his whole life, every, there's always whole memory was put in a was was was kept. And the reason thought the theory behind that is so we don't, so we can use our brain for other things. So we don't have to, we don't have to have wasted mental space for our memories because we can always go back into this database and see where was I on this day? Let me scroll over here and then. And that is what we're moving toward. It is isn't it? The kind of, well, the cloud. Yeah.

It's kind of that. Yeah. I don't want to be divorced to my brain. No. But I mean, but it is interesting when I've got one of those, I've got one of those digital, digital photo things on my desk with loaded with all the digital pictures from my, all my kids and everything. And you know, it'll think of some little pop up and go, Oh, I remember that. I was kind of like a things growing by, you know, but I wouldn't have just remembered it. But I mean, I assume as AI becomes more prevalent

and everyone has it on their phone and everyone uses it more for more things. I assume it will slowly be doing this, just taking over different parts of our brain. I mean, isn't that what AI is ultimately is a colonizer of our brain? Probably. I think it is. And we're inviting it in. And we're not, we're not really interested in putting the brakes on because now it's a race not only between different countries like us in China to have the upper hand, but also between companies to make

the most money. Of course. I mean, you see even the people who started out as we don't want to be in the profit business with this. Wait, what did I say? What I meant was we want to be in the profit business. I mean, come on, this is America. We may profit. So yeah, I kind of agree with you, but I, but isn't all technology a trade off? Absolutely. Absolutely. And isn't it always feared when it first shows up? Yes, that it is feared. That doesn't mean this time couldn't be the one.

It could be the one. But this is the whole thing that could cure cancer. Exactly. I don't give it, I don't even give a shit if they become a robot overlords because I mean, the odds are I will certainly be dead within 30 years. That's true. We got to think about that. Unless AI stops that. Comes in and Rudolph the Red Knows rain deers his way into my heart by saving us at the last minute with his glowing nose because that is definitely possible. I mean, AI in 30 years could keep people

alive forever. Now the next question is, do we want to be alive forever? Well, there you go. That's the big that is. I mean, if I can be alive like I am now, yes. Yeah, but then you know, there's nothing. Of course, because I did, I made a movie about that, which was, you know, death becomes her, which is, which is, yeah, yeah. Well, you want to sit around and watch everybody you know die. Right. I mean, or maybe well, but then if nobody dies, then why?

That's a whole not that's, you know, that could be a really interesting movie. I mean, do we want to sit around and have conversations like this for like the next 100 years and never, never, never stop? I could sit around and do this, which is, I mean, it's one reason why I love starting this podcast. This is what I would be doing anyway, probably on a Wednesday night, taking a little break from my work week, my real job. But now I get to do it with you.

Or you know, Cheech and Chong were here last week. That's really, yeah. I mean, every, I mean, people kind of squeaky like this. It's just, it's, how could I ask for anything more in life? I mean, to sit here and just be able to, and you haven't had even a drink. I have some water. That's a good drink. No, I did back in the day, but I don't drink anymore. A lot. Enough that I got to the point where I needed to stop. Yeah. Like flight. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that, that, that's an awesome one.

Yeah, that's really, that's a great one. That's a great one. That's a great, there's a great performance. Yes, again, John Houston. Yeah, exactly. But it's also like, is he the best one to do that? Probably, but you know, it's not like no one else could have done that part. It's a great idea. No, it's great. You know, beautiful screenplay. Yes. So good. Yeah. Who wrote that? You know, John Gatins wrote that. Oh, so good. I mean, again, totally stuck the landing.

You know, the great end. I mean, I can't, you got to have a good ending. And him at the beginning, first of all, with the hotel room door and the fucking mini bar. Do you know how many mini bars I've been in? I mean, I've been on the road my whole life. Mini bar, that rang true to me. Not that I've ever fished through the whole bar and gotten shit face drunk in a hotel room, but I get it. And then, you know, the switch at the end and

flying the plane upside down and he's just a bad. I mean, I said that to somebody who was here recently, he is my all-time favorite, like Denzel, as far as I think. I mean, I like a lot of people, but he just knocks it out of the park every time. Oh, he shows up with the goods. He really does. He really does. I mean, I mean, I mean, he shows up and he's and he's ready to, he's ready to. You can tell. Oh, yeah. I mean, just absolutely joy to work with. Yeah. He looks like no nonsense,

but still he's not warm and fuzzy. He's not warm and fuzzy. And he explains it to the crew. Yeah. And he'll sit there and say, look, you guys have to understand something. Either am I. You know, yeah, he says, I don't have to be. He says, you guys set up the shot. Right. And now you want to let your hair down and relax. No, no, I got to come on. And I got to like do it. Yeah. So I don't have time to make small talk with you. Yeah. I mean, that's not what

makes a good boss. I think I'm a, I've always been a pretty good boss at my shop. And I'm not the Pat everybody on the back and, you know, and learn everyone's name and all the things, you know, like people do ask about your wife and, but I'm also not mean and I don't yell and I don't, you know, I think people appreciate it when the boss just isn't in your life at all. I think you write about that. I mean, it's not like you have to like know what.

Everybody's personal life is. You need your little kitchen cabinet. Yeah. Who you, and then everybody else just do their job. And I'm respectful. But, you know, yeah, we, I can't be. I don't have a problem coming in and saying good morning to everybody. Of course, of course, not. Of course, not. I don't want to, you know, come in and say, why is that camp? Why is that cable over there? Right. You know, I don't, you know, try not to do that.

Right. But, you know, I mean, you hear lots of horror stories about sets and I mean, there's hardly ever movie set you hear about where there wasn't some, and I've been on some back in the 80s when I did acting. It wasn't uncommon that there is some blow up. I mean, there's just a lot of tension. You're mixing dangerous chemicals. People are just fucking tense. And it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And you're always under the clock. Right. And you're actually doing

pre and sane things. I mean, you're always making it rain when it's sunny. You're making it night when it's day. And it's like it's just when it's, and the actors are on this, you know, hairpin because their instrument is having, you know, spook as going around in their gut. That's what their fuel is. Right. So they're on this kind of like edge anyway. So like one guy who crosses and gets in your eye line when you're trying to concentrate. And it's like,

can everybody fucking let you know, right? That is not uncommon. If people want to be in show business, no, that's going to happen a lot. Yeah. And it does happen. And you got to be

respectful, you know, because they're under a lot of stress and they have to do it. And then, by the way, it's like, now, you know, when you walk into a set situation like that and you know, because you know, even though no one says it and you're going, I know that they got to get out of here in 30 minutes, you know, and, and, and, and, and you can just see it in a director's face that, you know, he's going to like, I can't go over. I can't come back here another day. They're

going to fire me. All that stuff that goes on in your brain. And the, and the, and the poor actors got to step on its mark on his marking and just do a great performance. And I got, I got, I got no time. You know, it's just, it's a horrible situation to be. But we do it for whatever reason. No, I mean, movies, I have always said it. Movie stars, people make movies, directors, all you guys

earn. I mean, they're paid a lot and they deserve a lot. It's really grueling. The hardest time for me is when you're doing a movie and, and well, when I, this is why I say this is why they pay me the big bucks is when you're doing a movie and you, you hire a, you know, really solid actor who's a day player and he's one of the first people you cast. And then you go off for six weeks and you're

in with the key cast and you're in a groove and everybody's in a rhythm and everything. And, and, and, and this guy's been working on his scene for six weeks all by himself and it's kind of, okay, come on, come on in and action and he's in a different movie. He's in a completely different movie. Right. And then, and then a hundred people turn and look at me, right? They all got the whole crew because they say the crew and everybody goes, this isn't the movie we're making. So interesting.

This isn't the movie we're making and the guy just was doing his best. He was doing his best, but he wasn't in with the, he wasn't with, and then I've got to know and I've got to then fix it. Right. And then you got to like, okay, and that's where, that's the toughest part. Yeah. Is there an example of that? I can't give him. I can't give him. There's a few, but I can't, I can't, but there's a few, but there's, but sometimes there are actors in movies who are at such

different levels that they're almost in two different movies. Sometimes, yeah. They're just, you know, and it's obvious. I mean, it's just like two people in a band playing different. Yeah. And that's really rough when I, I don't think I've had that. It doesn't happen and no. I don't think I've had that, but I've been, I've been, you can see it in movies. I can see it in movies and, and really good movies and, and, and, and, and you sit there and you say, I think

that, that, that, that, that's a really interesting choice is that actresses make it. It's, it's an age thing. I think so. I know so. Like actors, just like people, generally get better, smarter, wiser, they've seen the pattern go around before. So actors who are like in their 50s, 60s, they're great. Like they just, they just, it just, and when they're in their 20s, they're doing the best they can, but they're just done on that level. Just like you're not in life. I wasn't,

you know, I was in any in my 20s. I mean, you know, just as far as maturity level, and it shows. So if there's a guy who's 25 and he's in a scene with a guy who's 60, they're kind of in a different movie. I would say that's the toughest, the toughest to work with is the 20 year old actor. Of course. That's the toughest because, you know, they're, they're just, yeah, they're just 20

years old, you know, and, and there, and there's a lot of pressure on them. There's a lot of, and even when they're, and, but then it couldn't, then there was somebody I was working with, Michael, Michael J, and he was only 20 and he was just great. And that whole cast I had in that movie, they were all great. But there are the ones that are, they're the ones that are tough. I have a funny story you could tell you. Like when I was, I just remember I was listening to Jack Warden

on, I was fortunate enough to work with him on my second movie, Use Cars. And he gathered all the young actors. He was telling them, he said, you know, I was listening to this, he just dropping on the story. He said, you know, when I was, I always thought when I was starting out, that the best way to get more screen time is to slow my performance down. You know, right? He said, Jack Warden, he said, I was doing, and so I was doing, and then I went

to the movie that I was in, and I was cut out. I wasn't in it. So now I just say everything so fast that they can't get the scissors in there. And that funny, because that's what you're always saying to the, to the novice actor, pick it up, pick it up, take the air out, take the air out. Right. Just get on with it. Just entertain us. Exactly. Well, you have entertained me so many times. I am a giant fan of this. I know. I appreciate that, but you know, you are Hollywood royalty for

a reason, and it meant a lot to me. It would come by my crazy little rat skeleton. This has been a, this has been an absolute joy. That's been great. Yeah. Don't be a stranger. I keep making movies. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's really, really, really, really. Thank you. It's fine. It's really fun. And like I said, I had never done one of these before. So, you know, I've done, I've done the bullshit, you know, junk it, we just keep it getting,

right. You can ask over and over and over again.