658: Ugh, So Meaty

It's time for episode six hundred and fifty-eight of the Clockwise Podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, May 27th, 2026. Clockwise for people, four tech topics, thirty minutes. Welcome back to Clockwise, the tech podcast that's a tad more dependable than the forecast. I am one of your hosts. My name is Micah Sargent and I am joined across the internet. I'm a good pal. My dear friend. It is the one, the only Dan, the man. Morin. How you doing, Dan?

I'm doing well, Micah. Uh the forecast here says Cloudy with a chance of meatballs? Yeah. God makes such a mess every time. So meaty. I can't slap. Well while while Dan is open mouth catching meatballs like a uh like a like a carnivorous turkey, um I will move along to introduce our awesome guest. to my left, senior culture writer at TechCrunch, and my regular uh occasional co host on Tech News Weekly. It is Amanda Silberling. How you doing, Amanda?

Hello. I'm I'm now wondering why Could raining meatballs solve world hunger? I'm worried about the possible concussions. You know, there's always some downsides. We only look at the good sides, never the downsides. I'm also worried about how long does it take for the meatball to go bad. Like if someone finds a meatball on the ground and like what if it's been there for a couple of days and then they don't know that? Real question. We'll we'll deal with this at never, probably never.

Uh to my left this week it is unemployed documentarian and podcaster, the fantastic, the fabulous Alex Cox. Welcome back, Alex. Hello, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited and not going to say anything about meatballs. Pass, pass.

Well, all right, fine. I will kick things off. Uh, you know how this works? We've got four topics, thirty minutes, and mine for you is this. I would just like to know. Have you ever purchased anything from a social media advertisement? Of course, first and foremost, Instagram comes to mind.

Any place across the web where you've been browsing or you know, so swiping, scrolling, and you see something and you go, I need to have that. Uh, would you like to share with the group what it was you purchased? Amanda, we'll start with you. I feel like I've done this many times and it's often jewelry. Instagram has figured out my exact taste in jewelry where it's like

Not sponsored. There's this company called Little Rooms that was getting advertised to me for a while, and then I finally bought something from them, and I like it. I would not be so dissembling as to say that I've never clicked on an ad in social media. But I feel like there's something that holds me back from going through and making the purchase right then and there. I don't know if it's some sort of deep seated

Um mistrust. You know, it's like, oh, am I really gonna make a purchase in a web view in a in a social media app? Has it come to Um, or whether it's just the realization that now I've clicked through from a social media app and I will be that person. I will forever see ads for this thing that I've bought anyway. Um, but something always seems to hold me back despite my temptations.

And and I see a ton of stuff on Instagram all the time. And I've definitely like I have bought stuff that I have seen advertised on social media. Like we bought a couple of those ruggable rugs, which are basically everywhere also. And so I won't say I'm uh totally uninfluenced by it, but I I think I have managed to thus far keep myself from just like clicking through because I mean this is the trick with advertising all the time, right? Is like

it's not an accurate representation, right? You you're tricked into believing, oh, you know, this is on my feed and they're showing how great it is and everything. And and I always want to do my research. So I'm always being like, all right, but like Let me go look this thing up online and see if what the reviews are and what other people are saying about it that are not coming through the advertisement. Because I I just need that I need that like second worth of reality check.

where I'm like, okay, let me do the work now and see, rather than just do the impulse buy. So in that way I hope at least that I am social media advertising's worst enemy. Alex what about you? I haven't bought an anything um mostly out of spite, I think, at this point. For years I would use VPNs and different profiles with Instagram to see how I could manipulate the algorithm to give me something I I know I didn't want, but like on

Type of persona. And then I think I was traveling one time, forgot to turn something on, and then within like an hour it had me absolutely like right away f uh phone cases, uh queer clothes, different Pokemon stuff. I'm like Oh so I still um it also showed me a ton of products that I had already uh purchased from different places, like from doing research and it had the, you know, also the Amazon problem of

Hey, you bought this thing, here's another thing that's almost exactly right, might be a little bit better. And uh I mean, I don't really have a moral stance against buying things from algorithmic ads, just pure petty spite. Um, so there have been a couple of occasions. One was a candle. Uh, it was like tobacco and leather or something like that. I really like. Uh yeah, I have on occasion but purchased a couple of things using that method.

My uh significant other, he'll get things on uh Instagram and there have been a number of Banger, banger, banger Christmas gifts that I've gotten that I was like, where did you find Instagram? I'm like, you know what? I respect that you are brave enough. to put your credit card numbers into one of these sites and get a thing. And I have a hat that has a an embroidered hat on it that looks exactly like the hat that you're wearing. And so it's a hat hat.

And where else would you find that, but through an Instagram ad. And I also have a Twin Peaks um like basketball jersey that's very well designed and has a bunch of references to Twin Peaks. And all of those were gifts that I received from him via Instagram ads. So um, you know, I just sort of mostly let let him do his thing and then I don't have to. Uh thank you all for your answers on that. Let's go to our next topic, which comes from Amanda.

So I have been playing around a lot with like technology that is supposed to make you use technology less. Right now I have been testing the light phone, which is like one of the the dumb Phones. And so my question for you guys is what features would a dumb phone need for you to use it slash would you consider using a dumb phone? I think that the inclination to try and reduce

some of your dependence on technology is not necessarily a bad one. I tend to be of the school of those who think that there's only so much that buying an additional gadget or software, whatever, is gonna do for you if you don't have the will to follow through on it.

I struggle to think because I feel like most of the time I would just be frustrated by the lack of features and that's partially because I don't know on a given day what things I'm gonna want. Like, yeah, it seems like having the ability to text people is obviously a need to need to have

I still feel like I need to check my email because like you never know when you're out and you you need to reference something in email. It's like, oh, but then do I need my banking app? Do I need the app to pay for parking meter? Right. Like everything is so app dependent now.

that it feels like I could be in a situation where if I don't have my phone, it's like, okay, how do I navigate this without my phone? And so I struggle to be like, well, which features are essential and which features are things that I could get away without?

And then at a certain point I'm just back in the same like problem, right? Like'cause even if I have a web browser for accessing all those features I don't have apps for, I was like, Well, I can still check my social media on a web browser, friends. I guess I'm feeling like the dumb phone I get it. I get the temptation, but I feel like it's one of those it's like putting the cookies in a jar on a tall shelf in a cabinet. It's like I know where the step stool is. Like I know I put it there.

It's not gonna stop me, okay? I cannot be stopped when it comes to cookies. Just like with phones. You did research on the best step stool too, so it's even easier to get it. Alex, what about you? I uh am kind of of, I suppose, uh the weird opinion that I don't mind constantly using technology. I just want to use it on my terms. And uh that's kind of my problem with a lot of the minimalist devices right now is that they have r really strong opinions about how they want to be used.

The way that the light phone works is is cool, but I poked at the keyboard and I'm like, uh I mean uh my main thing is would mostly be typing. And I also desire a physical keyboard, but not the necessarily the full like QWERTY Blackberry version. What about a phone that does just have a numerical keyboard? But and I have not been able to find this. It does indeed have T9 built in so that you are able to use the old system where you would, you know.

tap three buttons to uh find the C ver uh people do I don't know if people know what T9 is anymore. But that was the last time I could like fully touch type on on a phone and I genuinely miss that. it would really have to radically change and I don't think the lightphone or even something like the communicator by Mr. Mobile, which I think is really well built, is for me personally. As much as I like the idea of something that kind of helps to pull you out of tech, I think that I would have this.

I would start to feel resentful and I would just stop using it. So I don't know that there's a feature that it would need to make me use it other than if the feature is actually it's an iPhone. I do actually a pretty good job of limiting my interactions with my device.

And so I don't really need it. And I would just end up feeling like, ugh, why is why am I making things much more difficult for myself and everything's difficult enough? So yeah, that's where I am on the the the dumb phone. But I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

Yeah, I mean even like with the lightphone, it has some features like directions, so that if you need directions somewhere when you're out and about, or it has a hot spot, so a lot of people that use the lightphone as their primary phone also carry around their old smartphone and then just hotspot it in case they need to like check their email or like do something where they need to use their smartphone.

I wonder if that kind of defeats the point. Even like I wanted to do like a legitimate review of the light phone where I would like use that as my phone for a week. But even just the process of going back and forth between the devices was complicated and involves like turning off iMessage because The light phone doesn't support iMessage and then also it doesn't support RCS, which is even more of an issue.

Ooh. Yeah, and I I feel like for me to consider using one of these, it would have to at least support RCS. I have generally found more that so far I've been testing a bunch of these various products, and the one I like the most so far, which also gets advertised to a lot of people on Instagram, is the Brit. So we'll see how it goes.

All right, folks, we have reached halftime here on Clockwise, which means it's time for me to tell you about our swag at clockwise.social. If you head there, you can see the various swag options available to you. We've got a wonderful hat. We have a wonderful shirt. We have a great tote. We've got quite a few different items available to you.

We don't advertise them on Instagram, so you know, headclockwise.social if you want to check them out. And uh you'll help support the show, but also you'll be repping your favorite 30-minute tech podcast hosted by Dan Horn and Micah Sargent. Uh so head there, clockwise.social. Thank you. Let's head back to the show with Dan's topic.

All right, so there's nothing new under the sun in technology we've all been around long enough to see. And now screenless fitness trackers are making a comeback with the whoop band and Google's new Fitbit Air. Uh would you choose one of these over a smartwatch or a ring or other tracking device? Uh and why or why not if you wouldn't, Alex? I would if this were I suppose a decade or or or two decades ago when Fitbit was its own company and uh you could easily export and delete all of your data.

And I just no longer trust most of the companies that are, you know, collecting this data and

Is this data useful? And so far the answer has been no when I've used the aura in the future, if these companies like with the Apple Watch or Apple Health, like you could connect to different service providers and uh healthcare, uh like my doctor or w or Quest, like you know, blood test companies that I have some like modicum of trust in and can uh or are, you know, supposedly follow following certain HIPAA laws, but I at this point it's it's both like an ooh, I don't know how much

I want them to know about my hormone levels and also I don't know if it'd be more beneficial than an Apple Watch. And that being said though, if Apple were to put something out that had all of the features of Apple Health and was just gathering that data and sending that off to my healthcare provider, I would very much be into that. As well as any sort of weird open source

option that wouldn't work in like two years, I would still try that. If someone's like, put this battery uh on your wrist, I'd be like, sure, okay, I will try it. But Google, um, I'm not that excited. Yeah, I think I'm right there with you. It it is perhaps the fact that it's, you know, that one of these big companies where I've already got that category uh covered. I've got the watch.

from the big company on my left wrist. I've got the ring from the large company on my right ring finger. It's not compelling to have another tracker. If it if I did, yeah, I would want it to be some unique novel approach that perhaps had something uh something interesting about it that I couldn't get from one of the big companies. So no, not for me. Uh but Amanda, what about for you?

The biggest issue that I have with wearables is that a lot of them are ugly. But this company Lumia is making an earring back that is a fitness tracker. It's like not out yet, but they're planning to sell it with either like you can buy the earring with it or you can use it as an earring back on like whatever other earrings you have or like they're they're also doing it as an ear cuff if somebody doesn't have pierced ears and is

But like I also don't know who doesn't have pierced ears but wants an ear cuff. Um but as someone that does have pierced ears, I'm very excited to see how that works because it Yeah. seems like something that can give you the insights without looking ugly. And also it doesn't charge a subscription, which is also part of why like like I don't think the aura rings are that ugly, but I don't wanna be like sucked into a subscription forever.

Uh these are all interesting thoughts. I think it's interesting because the fitness tracker thing is so personal, right? It's not only in terms of preference because it's a thing that you're wearing and keeping with you, but kind of as as Alex intimated, because of what it knows about you. Um, and so there's competing dynamics there. Um, I don't mind the idea of something that is, you know, screenless and is acting as a sensor, just generally speaking, as a concept.

I think there is potentially something to be gained there. But I am also, you know, somebody who wears an Apple Watch and wears an Apple Watch every day and doesn't feel like there is so ma like that I whole I need a whole like you know constellation of fitness devices all over my body to collect more information.

Um, because the the the question then becomes how much of this is actionable, how much of this is something I I can do anything about, how much of it is useful, um and how much of it is just there to have more numbers for me to obsess over.

Um, and so, you know, I think there's a strong argument that maybe Apple uh has an opportunity to expand into this space and go beyond the Apple Watch. That said, I, you know, kind of roll my eyes at the people who are like, Apple needs to get into this space.

It's like, first of all, the Apple Watch killed all of these things the first time around. Second of all, th the Apple Watch probably outsells all of these things, even if it is more expensive and in a slightly different category. Um I'm not sure that the Google's new Fitbit is going to, you know, suddenly walk in and steal all those people who are gonna

you know, by Apple Watches. The integration, the other features on there make a difference. And kind of as we were discussing with the dumb phone question before, it's like, well what what things am I willing to sacrifice in order to use a screenless device. Do I, you know, not get like, you know, be able to see messages? Do I not get the ability to use like my workout apps that I wanna use? All of those I think are valid questions. So

I'm not ready to switch to one of these. I haven't seen a compelling, you know, reason to, you know, swap out from a smartwatch, but I certainly acknowledge that there is a a market for these things and that the smartwatch shouldn't be the only thing that's out. So thanks again for your thoughts on that. Let's go to our final topic, which comes from Alex.

After decades of what I think was pretty positive progress in in software accessibility, the past few weeks Apple has finally seemed to embrace the fact that people physically use their handhelds in different ways. And you know, whether that's how someone holds their phone or puts it on their body p pockets versus m lanyards, whatever.

And I'm wondering, has there ever been a piece of tech hardware or tech accessory that feels like it was purpose built for you, like on accident? And if not, have you ever made a custom workaround? I think that for me, there are two things that for the most part feel that way. One is the alpine loop for the Apple Watch.

I have had uh lots of different Apple Watches in the pa Apple Watch bands, I mean, in the past, that they they were comfortable, but there w was always sort of like a slight bit of adjustment that I could do.

Or the other problem was if it was one that was more endlessly adjustable, like the magnetic options, anytime I'd get like a slight movement, it would ha it would have the two pieces of the band kind of like err against itself and it is a little bit like a vibration and so I would get these phantom f uh taps on my wrist thinking that I was getting a notification, but it was actually just the band adjusting. I've never had that with this band and so I quite like it. I would also say though that

Sometimes, given the complaints that I hear about the large size of the phones, uh, the Max phones, that they are purpose built for me because I do have monster hands. They are quite large. i it's so nice to have this phone that that fits really well in my hand, but I feel for people who, you know, that the phone is a little large for them. So

Oh, wait, hold on. I know I'm talking for too long, but I just remembered one, which is that um we've got a uh a Dyson um vacuum and the annoying thing about it is you have to hold the trigger to be able to vacuum. I three D printed this piece that lets Trigger pressed and so that way you don't have to keep your finger on the trigger the whole time and you can just use the vacuum. So boom, we got there in the end. All right, Amanda, your turn. Uh Dan mentioned this earlier.

Uh Um but I would say the XTE Yink X3, which is A tiny e-reader that has been making the rounds on the internet lately and it can magnetize to the back of your phone. I love it, but also I haven't been using it on my phone as much as I would like because I have a pop socket wallet and I have just gotten to in the habit of thinking that if I have my phone

Then I also have my ID, debit card, and credit card on me. Uh so I but I have been carrying the XTE Ink 3 in my purse just generally, and I really like Hay que It's just basically like it's easier to read while you are on the go and you don't have to remember to like take your Kindle and put it in your bag.

I just never even imagined that there could be such a tiny little e-reader that like goes on your phone. Uh, because I'm just someone that I really much prefer reading e-ink as opposed to like a normal screen. So I'm very I'm very bullish on the tiny e-reader market. Uh I'm pro tiny e-reader and I love it. There's nothing wrong with that. Uh you know, the first thing that jumped to mind for me too was an e-reader, and it's my Kobo Libra two

Which I find to be kind of a perfect device for me. I like that it's got it's got physical buttons, it's got that sort of asymmetrical shape. um that the I think it was the Kindo Oasis also had, which is like there's buttons and like a thicker side on one side so you can kinda hold it without your hand being on the screen. Um it's lightweight but like still, you know big enough that it's got a larger screen that I can read on. I just I find it very comfortable to use.

uh in bed when I'm reading before I go to sleep or traveling, like it's super light and like always feels like, oh, I can just throw it in my bag, no problem. Um and I I like all of those aspects about it. It's I think remains one of my one of my favorite all over tech devices.

I I had these moments where I think about other things too. I mean like I you know, from a purely ergonomic perspective, um I really like game controllers. Like a lot of game controllers are well designed for that, right? Like the um Yeah. current PlayStation controller I find to be just a very pleasant

It's got a nice weight to it, the buttons are very responsive, like it's got little thumbsticks and all that. Like I I enjoy the tactile nature of a good game controller, especially having grown up with like Nintendo original Nintendo game controllers, which you would hold not only would you get like terrible thumb cramps, but like the sharp corners would dig into your hand as you clutch them tightly, trying not to die and have to start the game all over again. So modern game controllers.

You know, kids today have it too easy, I guess is what I'm saying.

Alex finds you wrap us up. I guess I am a lot different than Micah in that I have, you know, uh really stubby hand both well, really wide and uh but stubby fingers, more of a girth knot length situation and uh

Th also, un unlike Amanda, I don't care how I I I look. I already do look like a weirdo carrying around all of my stuff all the time. And F I used to really be a a caseless person because I r in enjoyed, you know, holding uh the I really was like an Apple fanboy back in the day because of the ergonomics. uh uh almost. And uh the iPhone five was always my favorite, despite the much maligned, I I I think wrongly, chamfered edge, because it gave just a little bit extra

grippiness. And uh it also, you know, if famously there there was that commercial of like, oh, the screen is bigger and look, it is the exact exact size for average thumbs. And I'm like, oh heck yeah, yeah. Um, but ever since then, like I remembered the day in twenty fourteen when uh the iPhone sixteen came out, I'm like, oh no, oh no. And ever since then I've kind of had a hyperfixation with n not just cases, but trying to get my phone to just

basically not be a pain in the butt to use, which is probably why I don't uh need a a light phone or anything like that. Um, so I have I I used to make my own uh MagSafe pock pop sockets before they were available. You could get on Amazon little yeah, it was there's a whole weird drawer here of stuff. Um

And I'm still kind of like uh where is the sort of originality when it comes to iPhone cases? In in the fashion worlds there seems to be a lot of really nice stuff. Um, including actually the uh Hikawa, I believe, um, by Shane Burka, which was just featured by Apple. And I'm kind of hopeful, you know, Micah, you mentioned 3D printing. The the market still is, I think, small enough for 3D printers that it people aren't really embracing making or able to embrace making their own stuff.

But I I feel like if I could just get a phone case that fit in my hand, uh it would fix me and it it would it would be all right. Until then I'm uh currently drying some Play-Doh that is a cast of my hand that I hope to put on The back of a via mag safe on my phone. Um we'll see how that goes. Probably not well, but you know, prototype.

That is going to bring us nearly to the end of this episode of Clockwise, but I've got enough time for a bonus topic. I'm curious, what is a household chore that you secretly enjoy? Or maybe not so secretly. Uh Amanda, we'll start with you. Yeah, I don't know, maybe like sometimes folding laundry I just kinda sit down and put on a podcast and just do it. I don't know. I just don't like chores, but you gotta do them.

Um, dishes. Uh it's one of the few times I get to listen to podcasts. So like that's actually kind of a nice I kinda zone out and listen to a podcast and wash the dishes. And then the dishes are clean. That's my least favorite chore, so That's fair. I got I I I got a longer list of least favorite shorts. Don't necessarily enjoy any chores, but I enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that a machine has successfully done it for me.

When uh I got a a uh dishwasher, it was it was just my mind blowing. I'm like, oh So So clean this is cleaner. I've been eating off just disgusting stuff that I've been doing. So that that between that and my Roomba, there is a bit of a satisfaction of like, okay, I do need to clean up these little bit of crumbs over here, but ninety nine percent uh d like he got it all and that makes me happy.

Uh, for me it is mowing. There's something very satisfying about seeing the grass go from tall to not as tall. I don't know. Uh it's just very satisfying.

Uh thank you all for your answers to that. If you out there would like to get ad-free episodes with an extra unwound episode every week, you can become a member of Clockwise. Just go to relay.fm slash clockwise to sign up, seven dollars a month, seventy dollars a year to help support the show. It is time to say goodbye to our guests as we have reached the end of this episode. Amanda Silberling, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me.

Alex Cox, thank you so much for joining us on Clockwise. Thank you, as always, it is such a pleasure. And Micah, we'll be back next week. But until then, we remind everyone listening out there, watch what you say. And keep watching the clock. Bye everybody.