656: *Heavy Sigh*

It's time for episode 656 of the Clockwise Podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, May 13th, 2026. Clockwise, four people, four tech topics, thirty minutes. Welcome back to Clockwise, the tech podcast where we've been quietly preparing while everyone else is outside. I am one of your hosts, Micah Sargent, and I am joined, as always, as you can expect, by my dear pal, the one, the only, Dan the Man Morin. How you doing Dan? Yeah. Uh I'm prepared. I'm totally prepared. Always prepared.

Yeah, like a boy scout or they Not never was a never was a Boy Scout. I'm definitely not prepared for any of the scenarios that Boy Scouts would need to be prepared for. Uh well while Dan fumbles with his uh I don't know pocket knife, let's move along to introduce our awesome guest to my left. It is YouTuber Chris Lawley. Welcome back to the show, Chris. Thank you for having me. And I was a Boy Scout, so Dan, uh that pocket knife you should point it away from you. Away.

Got it. Thanks. Good tip. All right. Point DN goes in the other person. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Sick'em with the pointy end. Uh and to my left it is a first timer here on Clockwise CNE editor at large, Scott Stein. Welcome to the show, Scott. Hey, thank you. It's good to be on this. Um, ready to answer questions and all that and wonderful, wonderful wins.

You all know how this show works. We've got four topics, 30 minutes, and mine for you is this. Google has just announced a new, well, sort of teased a new Chromebook. Sort of device. And I just wanted to know what do you think about Google's Chromebook replacement? Chris, we'll start with you. Yeah, it looks interesting. I'm still very much in love with the MacBook Neo, and the MacBook Neo comes with full Mac OS. Uh, and this

It's not it's not Mac OS. Uh it's not a full desktop operating system. But there is some interesting things in here. Um it looks like there is Gemini is deeply, deeply hooked into it, and one of the headlining features which

This doesn't seem like it should be a headlining feature, but it's one of like the top things on their website is you can ask it to make custom widgets and that is actually kind of interesting. I I kinda like that. I'm kind of curious how that will work, if that's something that

Um will work with third party services or is it just working with the web or third party apps? Uh there's questions there, but it's Google. So how long will this last until they kill it? I mean that's that's the real question, am I right? So this has long been rumored that that Google would try to sort of merge its Chrome OS and Android, right? It's got these multiple operating systems and it uses them for different things.

And it wants to bring them closer together. Anybody on the Apple side should not be shocked, right? I mean iOS, Mac OS, iPad OS, they all share tons of DNA. Um and I imagine there is a degree of Google that's like, why are we maintaining multiple operating systems with different capabilities?

Um Chromebooks have done pretty well for what they are and they sort of rely on the fact that uh most tools, especially in the education market, a lot of stuff is web based. You don't really need beyond that to run apps. Um but I think as far as them being competitors in the wider laptop space, some of that has been hindered because you have competitors like the Neo and of course you have tons of Windows competitors. And so bringing in Android and some of its capabilities here

I think seems to them an opportunity. Now you can have App Sand, you can have all the the great stuff you can get with Chrome. Um and then we throw in Gemini to let's just put in it all. Let's let's throw in the kitchen sink and see which part of it is gonna work. I I don't know. I mean I I don't think anybody

I'm sure there are Chromebook stands out there who are like Chromebook, it's the best but I feel like most people get forced into using a Chromebook and maybe it's not a first choice. Maybe this is their play here, but as as Chris animated, like, you know, we've seen this with a pixel phone too, where it's like

Their commitment to these things is at times a little soft and wavering from year to year. So we'll have to see exactly the chips and there's a lot of stuff that we don't know about it yet. Scott, what do you think? Google already has the presence for Chromebooks in that my kids use Chromebooks for school. You know, it's like it's there. It is the default.

So now they're trying to rewin that, but it's not really that. They're trying to win a consumer space that's different than that. And that's where I think it gets fuzzy and odd. Like what I like about it. I like the intentionality of a company working on applications for AI that you could, like you say, with the widgets or other things or the wiggle cursor that kind of becomes this AI summoning thing, like thinking about ways that it can mesh with what you're doing.

versus trying to like hackify your own AI solution that I'm not gonna find myself compelled to do. And then there's another side thing, which is what exactly would this be for education? Because I'm just seeing all these stories about like AI in education and there's people not wanting it in the educational space necessarily if you're going to be loading Chromebooks with with AI deeply embedded.

Is I mean sooner or later we're gonna have to think about these problems and these these challenges or opportunities or whatever they might be. But does that mean it's gonna go into all Chromebooks or is this just like a sub thing and and like you said, are they gonna like are they gonna stop this effort at some point? I mean, I've I've seen the evolutionary paths of Chromebooks for so many years and covered them. So I'm curious, but I'm curious about the consistency of the effort too.

I do think that this is an interesting idea. It it used to be that this was one of the devices that I considered when someone was Is this terrible? When it wasn't a family member and they wanted an inexpensive device that was laptop-like, um, I would have that person consider a Chromebook. And so seeing Google continue on with this idea is interesting. Um, but I I I really like this demo idea where you shake your mouse cursor over something.

And it will try to help you figure out whatever it is that you have in front of you. So it could be that you see a date and you shake your mouse cursor over it and then it adds that date to your calendar. So there are some kind of fun concepts here that maybe we wouldn't otherwise have because we're thinking of this sort of

AI first platform. Uh, and in that way, the potential innovation is is interesting to me. But ultimately, I I'm probably going to send someone the way of the MacBook Neo these days. uh in instead of the the Google Chromebook route. Thank you all for your answers on that. Let's go to our next topic, which comes from Chris.

So phones have become a jack of all trades, master of none devices. They can do so many different things. I'm curious if you have any specialty dedicated hardware that does something that most people would do on their phones. And if so, for what? You know, for example, it could be an ebook reader, MP3 player, maybe even a good old-fashioned abacus. Look, I'm not here to judge. I mean... E book readers would be the answer for me, except I have like four of them.

Don't know if that's better or not. I don't really like reading books on my phone. I've done it from time to time and then I always forget that my phone can do it and I get fall into the trap of my phone can do all those other things.

But I really enjoy reading on an ebook reader. I do it every night before I go to bed, you know, whether it's a Kindle or a Kobo I have one of those tiny little XT Inc X4s that I have used and brought with me uh various places and I really enjoy even though it's a tiny screen and ridiculous, I enjoy having that as a single purpose device that's built for reading books.

I have no value whatsoever for an MP three player. I know that it's become sort of a nostalgia hit now and I I loved the iPod. I had many iPods. I reviewed iPods, all of those things. Um great device for what it was. There is very little reason for me to have that right now uh versus a smartphone.

So I'm you know, I'm checking I'm f I'm looking around to see if there's anything else uh, you know, that I might use that's sort of a a dedicated device, but from a technology standpoint, no. I I really love that, you know, when I travel, I was travelling for a uh vacation a couple of weeks ago.

And I brought my iPad for the plane and that's the only place I ended up using it. And I brought my phone and I brought my Kobo and like that was it. And I love only having those devices because it you know, it's fewer things to charge.

It's for your things to juggle and take in and out of your bag if you need to at various security checkpoints. Honestly, you know, I I wonder about a world where there's a foldable iPhone. I don't even need to bring that iPad for the plane. Hmm. Could happen. I don't know. Scott. This is not something I use all the time, but I've been kicking tires on um the remarkable paper-peer tablet that I just looked at at CNET and like I like the idea of those dedicated sketch sketchpad things.

I wouldn't say that I keep going back to it though. You know, I feel like I I use it for a seasonal period, then I will not feel necessarily compelled and I'll just grab uh a notebook or just write on my phone. Uh do dedicated game handhelds count? I mean I always feel like I'm carrying like a Switch. So I tend to do that even though there are other ways to play games and I'm also carrying an iPad when I travel and similar to what you said.

I tend to mainly use it for the flight and or the vacation mode. So that's an also a kind of a dedicated device in some ways. Yeah, those are the that's the gear I tend to travel and bring around with me. Nice. Uh for me, the dedicated hardware would be camera. I don't use it all the time, but if I'm going to

an event that's going to have, you know, uh lots of photo opportunities. I I don't know, like if I'm gonna go look at flowers or something, then I'm probably going to bring uh the D S L R with me. Uh I'm not a big gamer, but games that I could technically, I think, maybe play on my phone. Some of them are available on the phone. Um, I do play on the Steam Deck instead. It is a very capable uh little device.

And therefore I will use that as well as kind of a dedicated device. The the games that can run on the Steam Deck far often fall in that same performance space as something that could potentially be ported over to the phone or in some cases have been ported over to the phone. So I think that's why I I'm allowing it to count. Uh but Chris, I'm curious to hear about you.

The big thing for me is cameras. Professionally I I use cameras every single day. Uh and I've I still while the iPhone takes really good video, I still find that I need a dedicated professional camera. So I have the Canon C fifty as kind of my main camera. That's it's fairly new and and very, very nice. And then I have an R five as well. And that's kind of my hybrid take professional photos, uh, do some, you know, other angle video stuff.

But uh I have a new puppy and uh I am taking lots and lots of photos and I could do a whole thirty minute rant on the state of phone photography and phone photos. Uh, especially the iPhone, I don't like the overprocessed image look that you get with it. uh while I don't mind using my Canon cameras to take photos of them of f of her, uh it's a big camera. So I have been looking at like point and shoot stuff and uh me being who I am, I immediately went to like uh

And I have been hovering over the Leica Deluxe 8 buy button right now and I just I I the idea of having a dedicated point and shoot camera just for like life stuff, whereas it's not the big heavy interchangeable lenses and mirrorless camera and like the stuff I use professionally has been really Really like uh it's it's there. If I make it to the end of the day and I haven't ordered it, I will be very, very surprised.

So yeah, I I'm I'm kind of all in on breaking tasks out of my phone that aren't necessarily, you know, what the phone is a at its best for. So reading books, playing games and Definitely photography because oh, that over processed look. I can't. It's it's killing me.

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Our thanks to Vidally for their support of this show and relay. All right, we are back from halftime, and that means it's time for Dan's topic. So uh you know, a lot of our technological devices, uh including iPhones, uh have added bunches and bunches of assistive or accessibility features, you know, to provide everything for help with vision or hearing or motor skills, etcetera. And I'm curious if in your everyday life there are any of these features, whether on your phone or other devices.

that you find yourself using either from time to time as you need it or on the regular. Scott, let's start with you. Yeah, I don't have any turned on b by default on my phone. But when it comes to glasses, like I mean again, I look at I look at smart glasses and things like this. Th it's space that's not necessary for a lot of people, but

A lot of stuff in there is kind of accessibility anyhow, so I don't know if that counts. But but even there, they don't they don't quite s stick for me. Um I've tried conversation boost on meta's glasses. It's interesting. It's a little bit hollow and digitized. And I'm not sure if it always helps beam into listening to people. Maybe that's comforting for if people worry about surveillance.

And uh I'll use some like the reading translation things, you know, for sure. That's kind of what I do. I you know, it's I wish I had a more exciting answer for that. It's all right. It's uh it's a good answer nonetheless. I uh have a feature that I use quite literally every single day, so much so that my action button is dedicated to it, and that is reduce white point.

Uh every single night I will enable reduce white point. What if people are aren't familiar with this accessibility feature? It basically lets you overclock the reduce brightness. function on your device. And so you can take that brightness slider, of course, and bring it all the way down to the bottom. And that for the most part is enough of a lack of brightness. But when all of the lights are off and your eyes have adjusted to the darkness, the screen is still quite bright. And so reduce

white point helps you to make it even darker. And so I have it set to reduce it even, I think, by like twenty points more. And I turn that on. Uh if I am using my phone in bed, uh, then I have that turned on uh to make it even darker. Chris, what about you? Yeah. Uh so there's a couple that I use, but one I want to highlight in particular is the background sounds feature. Uh this allows you, especially on iOS and iPad OS, that

Uh, they don't allow you to have multiple streams of audio at once. So even if you have a dedicated app that you really like, like one of my favorites, Dark Noise. Um if you were to try and play a video while dark noise was going, you would pause dark noise. So what background sounds does is it lets you Yeah. Play white noise or rain sounds or or whatever. Like I I just like the rain one personally, but whatever like that background noise that you like, there's a bunch built into it.

And it's system level, so it'll keep playing even if you keep plu playing or if you start playing a video or a podcast or something like that. Like that audio is persistent. Uh I have ADHD. I have I can have real trouble focusing, especially if I am not home alone. My girlfriend's a doctor, so she has a weird schedule. Sometimes her mom stays with us. And like I mentioned, we also have a new puppy.

So there's can be a lot of distractions happening in the house. So I use the these background sounds all the time whenever I'm just like trying to write. do email, admin tasks, whatever. I all the time. And my little trick for this is if you go into accessibility, scroll all the way down, there's an accessibility shortcut option. And you can assign a triple click lock button press.

to an accessibility feature. I have mine set to background sound so I can just triple click that and it turns right on. You know, throw in AirPods, noise canceling, and I can get work done, even if the house is full of distractions. All right. Well those are all good examples. I the reason I asked this question, it came to me this morning as I uh had opened up our spreadsheet. Uh I had my my annual eye doctor appointment and they dilated my eyes. I realized I cannot read anything on my phone.

Yeah. Uh and so I started playing around. I was sitting sitting in the car, like trying to play around with the various things and and I remembered, Okay, yeah, there's a way you can zoom um uh in on stuff and I was struggling to get that working and I was like, Oh, what about voiceover? And I was like, Wow, this is like I've entered an entirely different parallel world like

This is a thing that I am sure is incredibly useful to people who need it. But if you're a person who needs it like once a year, you're not gonna remember how anything works. I also didn't have like a good voice downloaded for it for some reason, even though I have like better Siri voices. on my phone. It didn't download those for voiceover, so I was using the extremely robotic voice reading everything. This is not a great experience.

So I did eventually get the zoom thing working and that was pretty good'cause it meant it gives you like a little loop essentially that you can drag around the screen. Um and you can, you know, turn it on and off with a gesture and all this stuff. And I was like, this is actually g you know, it's enabling me to get done what I need to get done, but I'm not gonna be sitting here reading long swaths of text. on my phone. And so I was kind of fascinated by this.

Like I wish there was this is a place where maybe dare I say it, an AI feature could be handy, being like, hey, I've just had my eyes dilated. Can you help me make my phone more readable? Do what you need to do, right? So that I don't have to know what it is. Uh but this is my problem. Give me a solution.

Um And so I thought it was very interesting because I know how powerful these features are and we have friends and colleagues who write a lot a lot about this stuff, but it is a great reminder all of us will need accessibility things eventually in one way or another.

Uh and so having those features there is super important. Uh, and I think it is instructive to have to use them even if it's only from time to time. Thanks for all your answers. That let's get our final topic, which comes from Scott.

So I am just curious because I cover this field a lot. Uh I look at VR and there's always ups and downs. VR is always dying. Coming back, dying again, but you know, Vision Pro reports that it might be gone or maybe still alive. I'm just curious, do any of you use VR for anything anymore currently? And if so, what? As I accidentally kick the um felted case of the Oculus that for some reason I put under my desk at one point and have yet to move it.

Um I can tell you that no, I do not uh use VR for anything anymore. Yeah. I Gave it the old college try on a number of occasions. I've used a Vision Pro and I hated every moment of it. I was in such pain the whole time. I dare I say, I'm I don't like VR. Uh so yeah, no, not for me. Uh Chris, what about you? Ha ha ha. Heavy sigh is the title of the episode. Yeah. I have not one, but three VR headsets in this house, technically. Sounds like a U print.

Yeah, it no, it is. Okay, so I was the sucker that bought uh the one terabyte vision pro on day one because I was convinced this was gonna be the future of computing. I'm the big iPad guy. I'm always looking for what's next and oh boy, I thought Vision Pro was gonna be it. So My M two one terabyte Vision Pro uh is in the box right now. And you're you're probably like, Chris, that's a weird way to phrase that. You're right. That is a weird way to phrase that.

Uh, because I also have an M5 Vision Pro that is a review unit from Apple. I did not pay this one. This is this that's still here. But that one is sitting in my closet with the battery dead because I haven't used it. Uh I and somewhere in this house in a box because I haven't unpacked it since I moved in over two years ago, is a PlayStation VR two and that hasn't I have no idea where that is. Uh it's in a box somewhere still that I just refused to unpack. But

I thought this was going to be a big thing. I was ready to go all in on it. But even if I use a Vision Pro to get work done, and technically I can, and I tried a few months ago, but like my task manager app to do it. R it's technically on the Vision Pro, but it crashes on launch. And I don't even know if they know about that. But the fact that the app is just crashing on launch and I can't use my task manager to see what tasks I need to do.

It's kind of a problem uh for the platform. So I've just kind of like given up on it. I need to send back my review unit and probably sell mine. I I really wish it would have gone somewhere, but it's just not. Especially like if I wanna watch a movie. I can't watch a movie with my girlfriend with Vision Bro. I mean, technically I have two so Yeah. I need a third one. For my Work. I'm gonna go tell my accountant right now. I needed it for my work. I'm sure they won't.

Boped me in the head. Um, but yeah, no. Just no, sorry. I have a I have an M two review unit here from Apple. Look, what a coincidence. We've all got some reviews. Um I I I put it on every couple weeks just to like try, you know, if there's new content or whatever that Apple has distributed or there's a new app I want to try or just to like you know get an ex like uh sometimes it is handy to be like I want to go sit on the beach.

Um like I do enjoy the experience of using it from time to time, but part of the the issue is that the the the software ecosystem is not there and that's because the users aren't there. It's like people aren't feeling compelled to like update their apps for Vision Pro.

Another part of it is every time I put it on, it has to go through a dance of like, Oh, I opened messages. It's like you are like, oh, two weeks behind. Let me download all your messages. Okay, never mind. I'm going to do something else. So there is definitely a challenge with it sitting there. It doesn't seem to do as much staying up to date in the background as I'd like, despite the fact that it's mostly plugged in. Um

So uh you know, what what is the point? What is the threshold into like, okay, how much stuff do I need to get past in order to make this usable again right now for a thing I'm doing, or do I need to jump through a bunch of hoops? I think there remain cool applications for it, but I I don't think that it's a mainstream technology. I think it's a thing that people, you know, might like for certain applications, but honestly as a day to day place where I'm doing work

Or whatever I need to get done, it is my lowest choice of platform. Scott, why don't you wrap us up here? I love this reality check. Real reality check. This is becoming like a death knell for VR unintentionally. So I think um I do this for a job. So the real talk of the situation now is yeah, I find that there are still periods where I don't look at the stuff. And I go, what happened? Why'd it fade out? Um, Meta, the quest. I mean, I've got obviously there's a ton of VR headsets around here.

The question was I was using it pretty regularly for exercise and stuff and then that dipped off. And when it dipped off I didn't go back. And then I wanted to get back. And that was right around the time that That meta decided to just stop supporting all sorts of different things, including supernatural. And it just turned me off and it ruined the momentum for me of getting back in. But even then, I found it helpful. But between making sure it was charged.

Sometimes the Apple Watch doesn't quite connect to it and it glitches out, and other times it's fine. And then it gets sweaty, although I have a silicone face mask thing. Bib, it's something to tolerate. And they never spent good time trying to really evolve the hardware or the software.

That being said, I played Walkabout Mini Golf again after a long time and I was like, I really enjoy this. This is great. I why am I not doing this more? And of course, a long period of time will probably go before I use it again. Vision Pro, I try to get worked on in it once in a while. Definitely will do that.

But yeah, the friction even putting it on, even though it is sitting d by my desk in a bag, I don't always do. I do like watching movies in it, but it is a weird luxury experience. It's the equivalent of like You know, am I gonna go to a theater alone and buy a ticket to something, which I don't do that often, you know, I have my family, but it feels like the same sort of thing. Like, yeah, it's a private movie theater experience.

The display is really good. That being said, I can still feel like I can see areas where it can be better after all this time using it. But a lot of the stuff I've been doing instead is are like again, I have display glasses lying around. So I'll plug in those and get like an equivalent close enough experience that I don't have to boot up the whole headset.

Um yeah, PlayStation VR two, it's sitting here where I go, I should check that out again. I should play a Microsoft Flight Simulator finally this week. And I just kinda never get around to it. I have to recharge the controllers. Samsung Galaxy XR is sitting here going, check out Gemini. So it's a hassle. That's all. For me, and I'm as deep into it as it gets. But yeah, that's it's helpful to hear your thoughts on it too. And they're very bits and pieces. I would love to do something creative.

on a headset, but they don't even try. Um, you know, there are a few apps that do it on Quest, certainly. Apple didn't even make any effort to do any 3D creative apps or cool garage band or you know, here's how you can edit a movie better using Vision Pro. So yeah, it's mostly a movie watching and display expanding and a couple of apps type of a platform, Vision OS, for the most part.

Alrighty, folks, that uh brings us very nearly to the end of this episode, but we've got just enough time for a bonus topic. What's a food you didn't like as a kid, but love now? Chris, we'll start with you. scallops, specifically bacon wrap scallops, and shrimp. We just went to Tepanyaki the other night for Mother's Day and oh I got shrimp, filet and the hot and spicy sauce. Oh that's a good meal right there. Can I just say vegetables? Just general. Yeah.

I did not I was a piggy eater as a kid and now I really love this stuff and of course I'm watching my kid now get to a stage of being like I don't want to eat that and I was like it's so good trust me you'll be you'll regret not eating it for all these years but like I'll pick one uh asparagus. I love asparagus. Um celery. I didn't like celery at all. Wow. Or and I made I remember making myself like it. Like just being like, you're gonna enjoy this and pass through this. Ha ha

Journey. I just like condition myself and now I find that I like it. For me it w was bell peppers. Hated every single color of bell pepper as a child, and now uh feed me all the bell pepper. Cooked, not cooked. Uh love, love, love, love, love, love bell pepper. Otherwise known as capsicum.

Hey, if you out there would like to get ad-free episodes with an extra unwound episode every week where Dan and I chat about a topic, you can become a member of Clockwise. Go to relay.fm slash clockwise to sign up,$7 a month,$70 a year to help support the show. With that, it is time to say goodbye to our awesome Christopher Lawley, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. And Scott Stein, thank you so much for making your debut on Clockwise. Hope to have you back soon.

Yeah, it was great to be on. Thanks a lot. And Micah, we'll be back again next week, but until then we remind everyone out there listening, watch what you say. And keep watching the clock. Bye everybody.