647: A Seedy Jelly Experience

It's time for episode six hundred and forty-seven of the Clockwise Podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, March 11th, 2026. Clockwise four people, four tech topics, thirty minutes. Welcome back to Clockwise, the Tech Podcast, where we only spring forward thirty minutes. And only then at the end of the show. My name is Dan Morin, and I am joined, as always, across the internet by my good friend, my pal, the one, the only, Micah Sargent. How you doing today, Micah?

I am doing just so well today, Dan. I I am. Yep, that was the least convincing I've ever heard. No I assume you were doing awful. No, uh that's good to hear. I'm glad to hear it. I'm also glad that we are joined. as we always are on this show, by two fantastic guests. To my left this week it is Slovenian tech reporter, slash podcaster, slash person.

Anj Tomich, welcome back, Anjay. Uh thanks for having me. A person from Slovenia, yes. It says that in the feel, I read what is in the box. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh to my left, writer and editor, Wired, ProPublica, Wall Street Journal, very prolific. It's Meg Marco. Welcome back to the show, Meg. Thanks for having me. It's finally nice outside, but I would still rather be here. That's very nice.

Um it's nice inside too. Uh all right, so let's get started. Four topics to go. I'll start off with mine. Apple today is shipping its new MacBook Neo, the low cost. Laptop. Is there somebody in your life that you would recommend this to? Why or why not? I actually had a like a conversation with one of uh one of my podcast co hosts and he's gonna buy one and he said, Is that okay?

And I just had to say yes. I think that's the thing. Like he just wants to write, like look at email and stuff when he uh he like does comedy and he writes scripts and stuff, so I said that's pretty much what that machine was made for in a way. It's still kind of weird to me. The the like the price point is still strange. 'Cause it it it's a price pot that that makes sense, like, m in most of the world f for a computer, which has never been true of an Apple product, so that's still

But the main thing for me is sort of I don't know who to recommend it to because I've been reading the reviews uh that that came out today, and apparently it's l it's quite capable. The only thing I'm kinda struggling with was w the eight gigs of RAM. Yeah. But but but even that sort of I don't know, it's maybe it's okay. Like because Apple Silicon is pretty great, even if it's an iPhone chip, like quota unquote an iPhone chip, like they're all ARM chips at the end, right?

But it ki I don't know, I I think I need to kind of recalibrate, but until I've had it in my hand I kinda it's it's hard for me to recommend it. But I like read Jason's thing and all of the reviews now and I'm kinda coming around to basically saying to people, Yeah, it's like it's fine. Apparently it's fine.

In in Andre's answer, there's almost like a suspiciousness that I really identify with when it comes to this. I really do feel like this is the laptop that I would If I if I s went into a grocery, I mean a um a convenience store and I bought some scratchers and I ended up win winning like five thousand dollars I would buy each one of my close family members this laptop over and over and over again.

because all of them would be able to use this and it would be very helpful for all of them. And so yeah, for me it's like, this is the answer, but I'm afraid to say that'cause then I'm gonna end up finding out that it's not the answer. It just seems too good to be true. Meg, what are your thoughts? My person in my life that I would recommend this to is myself in college. Right?'Cause I I had to be a person with a real grown up job to be in the market for Apple computers.

I think it's a really good price point and and eight gigs is a little bit of That's a little bit of fear, but I've had an an eight gig MacBook Air from a job and the new chips are good and it it it's a lot better than than it was and I I sort of have a little a little faith in it. Um, but I do think it's just so important for

folks who are kind of just getting started to have a computer computer, an accessible computer with a keyboard that's a real machine. And so I think this is great. I'm really happy about it. And uh I wish it had been around uh Loat these many years ago. when I needed it. So cheers to them.

You know, there's tons of people I think I would recommend this to. I there's a lot of people to whom, you know, these days I recommend a MacBook Air because it is the basic entry level laptop, but Because that's no longer the case, I think there are a lot of people to whom I would convert that to neo buyers because it is so much more affordable. And I don't you know, uh there are obviously reasons, you know, and and spec comparisons that are part of what make it so affordable.

But I don't think any of those make it a bad computer. Um, especially when you stack it up against a lot of the PC laptops that come in. um around that price range, which are, frankly, not great either. Um, you know, my wife has a Lenovo that's probably around that price range and I think Really, really bad computer. Um and I think one of the advantages is that, you know, people who are going to then buy one of these and have it be maybe their for lack of a better term starter computer.

um, maybe n not only may move up to future, you know, MacBook Airs or a MacBook Pro or whatever when they are, you know, have the budget, but, you know, even if they just continue buying, you know, more another MacBook Neo or something like that five years from now.

they become Apple customers and I think for Apple that's the really smart aspect of this is that it is a an entry level product that helps convert people who otherwise you might have to work harder to convert in the future of like, okay, they now they're in the PC ecosystem and we have to convince them to come over here.

But if you can get'em when they're young, uh, I guess they may stick with it for the lifetime. So uh the lots of people that I would probably recommend it to, and I'm very curious to see one in the wild. Uh thank you all again for your thoughts on that topic. Let's go to topic number two, which comes from Anj.

So my topic is basically okay, are we right now, like in this moment, living the actual dream because everything like quote unquote everything really is USB C now? 'Cause I I know is their standard bolt and you know, not all the cables are the are the same, not all the ports are the same. But still there was all this talk about oh one day in the future it's all gonna be one type of cable, one port.

So is this it? And what technology or what has to happen for things to get messy again? We'll have to do explainers again about cables and ports and stuff, or maybe there won't be any port.

Thoughts, Micah. Ah, interesting. Okay, so I think that for the most part we are living the dream. Uh there was someone who was on recently who brought up the fact that And and you you touched a little bit on this, but less that it's the, you know, what kind of USB C cable is doing what, but there are some devices where they won't charge. Unless one of the sides, like the the side that plugs into a a charger is USB A.

And then the thing that plugs into the device is USB C, right? But there's the i i it's it requires, I guess, like the small amount of power that USB A can set. I don't know why, but that has always bothered me. And so I don't feel like I'm fully living in the world of full USB C all the way. But in terms of of uh

uh like what technologies is going to make things messy again. I do think that it might be uh in the wireless space because I think about how we've got so many different versions of Wi-Fi. And we've got uh like Wi Fi six 6E7, and each of those all offers different things. But then we've got these devices that if they do go portless,

What are they gonna choose? Are they going to choose thread as a means of connection? Are they going to choose Bluetooth as a means of connection? Are they going to choose Wi-Fi as a means of connection? Will it be some sort of mixture between them? Will it be uh direct? Wi-Fi? Will it be Wi-Fi over your local area network? I mean, there are so many different protocols and connection options when it comes to that. that we'll have to see if companies end up coming with some sort of

proprietary form of Wi-Fi that makes it possible to transfer things at a faster speed while the devices are looking at each other. So yeah, I think um that is the area wireless connectivity is the area that's ripe for messiness. Meg, what are your thoughts? I am personally not not l yet living in the future because in my household, the person from whom I steal cables. has ditched lightning. And um and so I am in this weird hell of clinging to like a diminishing cache of inherited

cables and um I'm looking forward to joining you all in the future and um having only USB C stuff. Um I I I think it's a good thing to standardize these sports, um, you know, will it stick? I I don't know. I think nothing ever has. So I I think the answer's gonna be from me like, nah. It's a little nihilistic. Oh God, I'm loving every moment of this. Sorry. Um but I'm I'm excited to join you all when I finally get there and all of these cables

Join us. Yeah. I did I've I've replaced a few things in the house that I'm like just annoyed that they did not have USB C like I bought a new pair of AirPods at some point'cause I could I gave the old ones to my wife, so she had the lightning ones for a while and then she broke them. So now we both have USB C AirPods. Um But the there are a few things in the house that still rely like my

I have an older iPad that um is like the in the car or on the plane for my kid iPad and that one still uses lightning, so that's still stuck on it. And then I have a few things that still use the micro USB port and that just annoys me, but again I can't I can't do anything about it. Like I don't want to just run out and replace things. But I do love that like when I travel, you know, with my phone and my iPad, you know, uh it by and large

Um, is one of those things where I can only need to have one port, like even my laptop, right? Like I can just carry one cable essentially and be able to charge almost anything. So... You know, that is a great, great position to be in and I do wish that um, you know, everything I had was on there, like on the same cable, but you know, it's getting closer, it's not quite there yet. As far as

What what's gonna be messy again? Yeah, I mean I think the proprietary wireless connections is an issue. I mean, look at something like Airdrop now, right? Google kind of reverse engineered it for some Android phones. Um but it is silly to think that it is a proprietary, you know, file transfer

uh s thing that only worked with Apple products because if there is a world where and let's all be clear, the first company to probably make an a a smartphone with no ports is probably gonna be Apple because yeah they hate it. Um you know, then will everything be locked down or will there be propriet or like proprietary, you know, technologies versus open standards? And if so, what standards and how who will mediate those? So

I think there are a lot of risks there as well and and certainly, you know, uh my only con consolation here is that USB A ports lasted a real long time. Uh you still see them on lots of things. So I think, you know, as the transition to USB C is still relatively new by comparison, I think we got a few years left before uh, you know, they're totally put out to pasture. Anyways, that's what I'm telling myself. Anche, why don't you wrap us up?

Yeah, I the reason I chose this topic is because I I saw like the the Samsung the latest Samsung fold phone and then the iPhone Air, and you see how thin those are? It's basically the thinness of the USB C port. And I just wanted to acknowledge somewhere that we are sort of in the sweet spot now, where you know, ports are kind of mandatory. They're all kind of the same. But like I like Megal said.

Nothing lasts, man, or whatever. Like I wanted to make it even more That's exactly what she said. That's how I heard it. No, but it's like yeah, like'cause nothing and I think we're like I think we have it good now. I I I think we should talk about it more'cause I think it we're heading for a uh messiness again, basically. Oh, this is one of those sort of like appreciate it while you're living right before we go off the cliff. Yes.

All right. That's two topics down, two topics left to go, which means it's halftime. And as a quick reminder, halftime, you can get all of your clockwise merch over at clockwise.social halftime. T shirts, mugs, uh tote bags. I hear they have beanies now. We should get a beanie. We're gonna do that. Uh I'm saying it now. I know. I say it now. This is what I this is how I tell Micah we're having new products, is I just say it while we're on mute. This is true, everyone. This is how we learn.

Uh so go to clockwise social dot social and help support the show. Thank you. And with that halftime is over and I'll turn it over to Micah.

So Lego introduced this little thing called a smart brick, um and seems to be kind of uh a a method for making Lego playsets sort of replayable or playable, um, outside of just You know, once it's built, what else do we do with it? It's more than just displaying it. So I just wanted to hear, uh, now that there are some reviews coming through, what are your thoughts on the Lego Smart Brick?

And Lego's attempt at making its sets more interactive and replayable. Meg, we'll start with you. What I do with Lego after I build it is I dust it. So I do kind of get Um oh you dust it. You're special like that. I claim in public to dust it. But

uh yeah, like I get it, right. So you wanna make these more play they're a little fragile too when you play with them, although putting them back together after you kind of break them is fun too. Um I obviously big Lego person as a as a kid and and still do build Lego. And so I'm excited about this, but I actually I kinda don't need it, right? It's it's

uh lights and computer stuff in the lego is kind of m for me maybe the opposite of the point of the lego. Um that said, is my birthday coming up? What is it? And uh do I want this? Uh yes I do. Um so if anyone's listening, uh, who's married to me, perhaps that's information or them. Um and my only thing is that maybe a replaceable battery would be You know, kind of a good thing. But also kids play with these and little little parts and and

But um yeah, I don't know. I I don't need it. I d you know, I don't need it. Just want it. Uh I second much of what Meg said specifically that my birthday is also coming up and if somebody married to me is listening to the podcast, this would also be a great idea. Um

I'm I'm intrigued by it. I mean, you know, I think Lego has done some interesting technology things in the past. You know, they did their mind storms and stuff with like programmable um, you know, robots and stuff that you could build. I think a lot of that stuff is very clever and I like to see them trying to push the envelope a bit. Are they necessary? No. But I mean I think they're cool and potentially fun and

What's intriguing to me is and again with sort of the upside and downside of this is from what I've read the the first sets to debut with these don't have all the features enabled. Like these have remarkably have a ton of sensors in them and not all of those are used in these first sets. Kind of curious to see if that stuff gets updated over time and you don't have to like buy a new block, but like rather they can somehow update the

Firmware? I'm the bla I don't know. It's wild. I I think it's kinda neat. I mean, you know, they're getting me right where I live because they starting they started with some Star Wars sets, so I feel like I kinda need to pick up one of these for science. Probably or work. Yeah, work. I don't know. This is technology related. So yeah, I don't know. I anyways, I I think they're cool. I I honestly, I mean, the glory of Legos is really as a kid, like I loved

building all sorts of random things that I just totally made myself. Like, that's the fun of Legos. Like, yeah, building them and making what is, you know, s on the box or whatever is is great and as an adult I think I enjoy that as sort of a contemplative um meditative process. But as a kid being able to tear them down and build them into totally different things and create my own stories was the thing that always

um, you know, brought me the most joy. And so I think there it's be interesting to see how what other dimensions this technology can add and whether it keeps kids sort of more like, Well, I w I need to build it the way it is. because that's how the the the bricks work or

what can I do with this in a set that I build myself? I'm kind of intrigued to see what they you know, what adventures or things people learn. Someone will inevitably reverse engineer these things and find a way to program them, which I think will also be pretty cool eventually. So yeah. Anj? I think you b because the way I understand that that break can kind of mimic like a helicopter, let's say, or a spaceship, like a Star Wars X wing or whatever.

But you could put it into anything you build yourself and it'll still make the same noises, which I think is the exciting part, right? So you build your own sort of spaceship, just put it in, make it pretend it's an X Wing and it does the X Wing sounds, right? But you build something else. I think that that kind of works for me. It doesn't have to be like the thing you actually built.

And I'm saying this because the last two weeks,'cause I was home a lot with my son, who was sick. Yay. We build like three of my old Lego sets from the nineties.'Cause I have a box of like nineties Legos. And we built like uh d if anybody remembers like the Ice Planet Legos, it was like

Spacemen on a nice planet. They had skis and stuff. And a m just amazing sets. I have the one which has like a truck with a missile and has a magnet. And if I had like one of those One of those smart brakes that just did the pew pew stuff. I could probably incorporate it, like as a car or whatever. Like that could that would actually kinda be awesome. So I'm like I'm more in like more interested into like like Dan said at the end, like

Somebody may be reverse engineering it, maybe progressing it to do something else. Like it's not for everybody, but this is like a a this is clockwise. We're all nerds here, I think. Like we're we're not the right demographic to say anything really bad about the smart break, I think. Like we're all we all kinda see some potential in it. So I'm I'm actually like excited.

I I agree that yeah, I think this thing is super cool. Um i there's a great I think it was Wired that did a piece. I'm not I can't remember for sure, but regardless, it was a piece about sort of the technology, how it was made over time. You know, of course this is probably partially PR, but the idea that Lego was doing something that sort of went against the idea of

Getting people to buy more Lego sets, right? Because you are adding interactivity and replayability to sets that already exist, as opposed to going, okay, now you've built it to get more. And despite the fact that it would perhaps reduce people's desire to get new sets. They still went forward with this and really worked hard for over many years to get this technology right. And there's some really cool like positioning stuff where these uh smart bricks are aware of how Legos

nearby are uh interacting and it's all through like NFC coils. It's really fascinating technology. So that on its own makes me want to try it. Just so yeah, you can see like what you can do. And as Dan is pointing out, sort of reverse engineering it to see what kind of um IoT stuff could be made out of this. I think it's very cool. So thank you all for your answers on that. Let's go to our next topic, which comes from Meg.

Uh this is kind of uh maybe a like a legal question, but I'm sort of more interested in what everyone feels about this particular game mechanic. So uh New York Attorney General Letitia James is suing Valve for illegally promoting gambling through its loot box. System for video games like Counter-Strike 2. And there's now another lawsuit that's being brought by consumers. So I'm just wondering what

folks think about loot boxes in games? Um, sort of I guess if it's gambling is sort of a a question for the legal system, but like, is this a good game mechanic? Should we be worried about this? Does it feel like gambling to you folks? I don't I don't love it. I mean both as a just a simple like mechanic in terms of games, I think this is a it's a turn off for me in games is the idea that everything is kind of

monetized and randomized like that. I mean, I know there's an element of that going back a very long time in games, but the fact that so many of these do, you know, then translate into actual money is worrying. And I think part of it is also that it's just it's part of an overall trend of the normalization of gambling.

Um and it's I find particularly insidious because I do think a lot of it appeals directly to kids. Um and We've seen this as well with some cases that are working their way through with um, you know, the the betting markets like CalShi and uh

Polymarket. Polymarket thanks. I had it before and then I forgot it. Uh I just heard this morning or a story on the radio as I was listening that was saying like they've argued, Well, we're not gambling and a judge said, No, that's not it. Like'cause they claim they were We're just we're futures contracts. It's like, well then shouldn't you be regulated by the SEC? So I think with a lot of these things, as with online sports betting and all of these things.

it's become more acceptable and you know, I get I get the argument that people who are responsible adults should be able to partake in these things. But I do think there are cases where I mean, a appealing to kids feels like a real clear line to me. and also just the ability to bet on things kind of in an unregulated fashion. Like just because you can do it doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated. Right? There's any number of examples of that in life. So

I don't like loot boxes particularly. I there may be a bit of a steep climb in making this argument, but I would be none less happy if they disappear. Uh Ajay, what about you? Yeah, I d I don't know. I think like I think as a civilization sort of we I think we got gambling right like a long time ago where sure, it can be fun. But let's not make it so widely available that like basically anybody can do it, and maybe we should leave kids out of it.

I think it's pretty awful. But I think there's a big difference between I you can go to you know, in America to Nevada, to Vegas and gamble there. Then everywhere else it's kind of not a thing, basically. Like that sure there's like illegal bookkeeping and stuff like it. I I get all of that, like illegal gambling, but

I I it's so so weird. Like the'cause I I do follow at least the MBA, uh'cause you know, I like basketball'cause I used to play it. And like the amount of just gambling commercials that have infiltrated, like, everything. You know, the the whole you know, ESPN is basically a Disney company and they do gambling commercials now. So weird. Like s it's everything's just so like weird and skewed.

And then, you know, you you come in with the prediction markets, which, you know, are gambling. I don't know who needs to hear that, but they really are gambling. And then, you know, w for the kids we we won't m do like money directly, but you can, you know sell a skin for an AK forty seven for I don't know how much money basically. It's it's it's all it's kinda gross really. Like again, I'm not against gambling. I think, you know, handled responsibly. I think it can be fun.

But there needs to be some regulation. We've lost our way. Nothing lasts. Nihilism. The moral of this week's episode. We've lost our way and nothing lasts. I feel the same way. I mean, I think it's I think it's gross.

when it when it's marketed towards kids. I'm not a gambler. Growing up it was like against my religious beliefs. And so that I think that helped in a way to make me a little bit like weird about gambling. Um, but I do think that, yeah, this falls into When it falls into like chance plus money. I think chance there there's the formula for me, chance plus money equals gambling. And so this involves both of those things. And therefore, yeah, I do feel like loot boxes and video games are gambling.

And I don't know if worried is the right word. Perhaps it is, but certainly we should be paying as much attention to this as we are about other big tech things. Um yeah, I that that's that's how I feel. Make how do you feel? Well, so I think if you're like eight Right. Um, you shouldn't know what a parlay is. True. Agreed. That's that's just kind of the quickest way to sum up how I feel about all of this. And I I do feel like um that is not where we're at anymore.

Um, and that does sort of trouble me. I also think that this is an example of a sort of gambification, not a gamification, that I'm starting to see. like everywhere in every app. And um I have this experience uh I wanna say like um two weeks ago or so where um I I like the chess stuff in Duolingo. Like that's really fun and I'm like learning chess com like concepts and that's great. I really like competitively playing

chest against other people, like that's not very relaxing. But like learn learning the little puzzles is great. I really like it. Uh it's wonderful. But they keep giving me these loot boxes full of gems. I don't even know what to do with the gems. Um and I can't skip it and I can't shut it off.

And I view Duolingo as something that maybe it's not like expressly for kids, but it's like an educational environment. And I did a deep dive to try to figure out like, can I decline gems and like tapping through this box to see like it's a very like slot machine type scratch ticket type experience that I'm forced to go through. And there isn't as far as I can tell, if anyone wants to let me know, there isn't any way that I could find to shut it off.

Um and so now I have like twelve thousand gems or something. If anyone uh wants to tell me what I should do with that, if I can donate something. Somebody's gonna offer you a bunch of money to send your phone to them. Are these worth something? I don't think they are. Um can I donate them to like, you know, uh anti gambling like help uh hotline or something? But

Yeah, like I can't even shut it off in an educational, like what's supposed to be kind of a relaxing experience. At least for me, that's how I perceive it. So I don't like to see that that's just In everything. And uh, you know, to your point about, you know, ESPN is basically, you know, gambling. Everything. It's in everything now. Um, it's weird. It's good. Don't like it.

All right. Uh it's four topics down. We have just enough time for a bonus topic. So tell me quickly, what's your jam? I mean literally like raspberry, strawberry, marmalade. What's your favorite jam, jelly, preserves, what have you, Anja? Uh red currants. My grandmother's red currants, Jim, but uh I'll I'll take a store bought one. That's my favorite flavor. Yep. Any I don't know which one it is, but w I think it's preserves. Whatever is the one that has seeds in it. I love a seedy

Jelly substance. So like raspberry, especially, or blackberry. Ah, those little seeds. Yum. CD jelly experience. Can I make that the title? No, sure. Meg, what about you? Um, I'm not really well can I say like kick out the jams like MC5? Can I say can I say that? I'll allow it. Okay. That's my jam. Pump up the jam. Um yeah, also another good jam. Yeah, I'm not so much a jam person, but I like

Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't often partake of the the jams. I'm more of a like a butter on toast person, but I love peach jam or peach jelly. If I can find it, I just really that's great. On like a scone or some cornbread, it's amazing.

Hey, if you'd like to get ad-free episodes with an extra unwound episode every week, you can become a member of Clockwise. Just go to relay.fm slash clockwise and sign up for just seven dollars per month or seventy dollars a year, and you will help support the show. And we thank you for it. And with that we have reached the end of this week's episode. All that remains is to thank our fantastic guest, Andrey Tomich. Thank you so much for being here.

Nothing less then. Just nothing less. And Meg Marco, thank you so much for so many great nihilistic bits today. We appreciate it. Um, you are very welcome. I am happy to be the Chief Nihilism correspondent if you ever have that position available. I'm seriously considering it now. Uh but you know what, it doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Uh and

We are at the end of the episode. Michael, we'll be back next week. But until then, we remind everyone out there listening: watch what you say. And honestly, who cares?